Guild Wars 2

KittyCatMeow.5764:

I’m little confused at 7:24 time shows blue owning garri on enemy red map but has a wp garri and has sw tower wp ??
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/b/642258148

Yeah we had big discussion about this map earlier in the thread. Its likely a dev account you are seeing so dont try to hard to make sense of what server they are on. It doesnt add up.

The Dev responded in this thread on page 1 explaining what it will be.

TyPin.9860:

What ppl also seem to forget is that with the new trait system you will get a base stat increase from 926 to 1000. That gets us compared to untraited here (I guess for all stats, that don’t start out at 926 the bonus will be relatively the same, so I used this for calculation):
+ 74 Power
+ 3,52% Critical Chance
+ 74 Armor
+ 740 Health Points
+ 4,93% Critical Damage
+ 74,00 Healing Power
+ 74 Condition Damage
+ 7,40% Condition Duration
+ 7,40% Boon Duration

In addition all gear stats will be increased too. All those things will impact the builds significantly.

This.

I think if Anet (If they even have it figured out yet) were to let people in on how the armor, trinkets, and weapons were going to change to compensate the difference in traited attribute points, people would rest a little easier.

From watching the Dragon Hunter PvP on the ready up and how often they mentioned how much damage it does, I dont think anyone is going to have to worry about whether or not they can produce the goods as Anet was obviously selling power and damage regardless on what I or anyone else thinks about power creep. (not to mention the play on the guard vs thief thing. Good one though.)

I would think that people would understand that there is a complete rework in attributes going on and how those attributes add up, but maybe if Anet let us all in on some of those changes to gear it would calm the masses about a 125 points in power and vitality difference.

So even for the people who have built their toons around guard stacks, you also built it around an attribute system that will be obsolete and will likely need to rework it anyway with or without guard stacks.

DomAltares.8651:

nightblood.7910:

This pretty much ends that and gives it to the opposing team as now the defending team will have to come from Garri to get back to whereever that fight is and likely lose that keep because of it.

The other side of the coin though, it becomes in your favor in their BL.

You and I both know that the gold will flow to make sure that Garri waypoint stays tapped 24/7 on higher tier servers if this is the way things are to play out. There’s going to be thieves and mesmers raking it in to keep that WP useless.

Let’s not even get started on the 500 supply cap in keeps coupled with these new waypoints. If the enemy breaches inner, even if you can repel them you may as well just hand them the kitten ed keep. You’ll never repair it more than once and shuttling supply from other keeps is going the way of the past.

Exactly so now the defending team will have to come from all the way up north of the BL. At the very very north of it where North Camp used to be which is now spawn.

This is going to be interesting.

DomAltares.8651:

nightblood.7910:

So this picture is broken under any circumstances.

Which is not surprising, since any of these screen shots came from dev builds on dev accounts, which means that any waypoint can probably be flipped on and off at will for testing.

Everything I have read indicates that new southern tower waypoints belong to the opposing servers, and will never be available to the home team. This follows with the design philosophy that the new southern towers are the gateway to your map. The ememy either flips them, breaks the wall next to them, or has to go far out of their way to get around them.

Having an instant waypoint is both their incentive and reward for flipping and holding that tower.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing of it being a dev account. Also I dont really know the routes of access to the southern parts of BL’s, but if the defending team lacks any southern waypoints, its pretty much giving the southern parts of the BL to the Opposing server.

As I said Im not too concerned about the opposing team having waypoints in towers. Thats whatevver, but the lack of waypoints for the defending team is going to make it real hard to defend southern parts of the BL and win some of the big fights that happen there.

When I was on SoS one of the best places you could go to find a massive fight was between bay and southwest tower. And it was a war of attrition. Those massive fights went on forever because FA could WP from spawn just as quick as SoS could WP from bay. The stalemate was in the defending teams favor.

This pretty much ends that and gives it to the opposing team as now the defending team will have to come from Garri to get back to whereever that fight is and likely lose that keep because of it. While the attacking teams worst case scenario is the run back from spawn

The other side of the coin though, it becomes in your favor in their BL.

Nightshade.2570:

nightblood.7910:

Nightshade.2570:

nightblood.7910:

Nightshade.2570:

http://i.imgur.com/81SqTzi.jpg

I really dont think the south tower waypoints are for enemies guys lol! look at the picture

Actually if you look at that picture, center waypoint is open and usable but the southern waypoint is not in that BL.

It looks like a possible photoshop gig to show the map in total.

Because how could both a blue and green waypoint be open to anyone?

But based on that single BL Im pretty sure that southern WP is for the enemy.

It could also be under attack, as they said they will still be contestable.

Yes I agree, but once again, there is a blue tower with a waypoint open at the top of the picture and what looks like a waypoint in a garri open in the Anvil Rock Borderlands.

Also that tower is green.

Which if it were a person on Anvil Rock, then the blue tower shouldnt be available in the other BL. If it were a person from the blue server, then the green garri shouldnt be available.

the blue tower is on a different map borderland. We really need a dev on this one please devs PLEASE.

But to clarify what i was saying about this picture.

If you look, both the northern spawn WP and the Garri WP is open. Which should indicate that this is a person from the Green server that is looking at the map.

Now if it were that the southern WP’s were for the defending Server in their own BL then the blue tower in the other BL wouldnt be open to the person who also has green spawn open (see at the very top of the green BL and at garri in green BL), but it is.

But at the same time if the southern tower waypoints were for the opposing server, they said if the tower is owned by someone else it wouldnt be open to you anyway, but it is.

Now by chance if the main BL that we see is actually the Blue BL and has been ramsacked by green, then why is the green garri open to blue?

So this picture is broken under any circumstances.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

well, they did say in the stream that borderlands home team should have the advantage, and the side keeps having waypoints essentially gave the advantage to the visitors, by allowing them better access-ability on the map via WPs. then they discussed how EB needed to restrict access to opposing keeps’ waypoints as well, due to the snowball effect of allowing one team to WP across the map to camp an enemy server’s spawn.

Yeah if someone could get a WP on your side keeps in the borderlands it did give them an advantage, but more often than not, if you can wwp your BL then you have ten times better mobility there.

Southern fights in BL’s between bay and southwest towers happened often with the owning team being able to wp to bay and keep coming back just as the attacking side could WP and keep coming back from spawn.

Now they WP the defending server all the way up north to Garri if you have it giving the opposing server the advantage in the southern parts of the BL with quick return time, they win the war of attrition by worst case scenerio being able to run back from spawn quicker than you can run back from garri. As well as being able to back that fight up with a guild group from spawn faster than you can back it up with a guild group from somewhere up north.

The tower waypoints are whatever, I dont think they give anymore or less advantage to the attacking server, but the lack of waypoints for the home team in the southern parts of the BL seems counter intuitive to giving the defending team the advantage.

Nightshade.2570:

nightblood.7910:

Nightshade.2570:

http://i.imgur.com/81SqTzi.jpg

I really dont think the south tower waypoints are for enemies guys lol! look at the picture

Actually if you look at that picture, center waypoint is open and usable but the southern waypoint is not in that BL.

It looks like a possible photoshop gig to show the map in total.

Because how could both a blue and green waypoint be open to anyone?

But based on that single BL Im pretty sure that southern WP is for the enemy.

It could also be under attack, as they said they will still be contestable.

Yes I agree, but once again, there is a blue tower with a waypoint open at the top of the picture and what looks like a waypoint in a garri open in the Anvil Rock Borderlands.

Also that tower is green.

Which if it were a person on Anvil Rock, then the blue tower shouldnt be available in the other BL. If it were a person from the blue server, then the green garri shouldnt be available.

This picture clarified nothing for me and looks broken under any circumstances.

Nightshade.2570:

http://i.imgur.com/81SqTzi.jpg

I really dont think the south tower waypoints are for enemies guys lol! look at the picture

Actually if you look at that picture, center waypoint is open and usable but the southern waypoint is not in that BL.

It looks like a possible photoshop gig to show the map in total.

Because how could both a blue and green waypoint be open to anyone?

But based on that single BL Im pretty sure that southern WP is for the enemy.

Manimarco Devil.1790:

Reading is hard…

EB
Red keep will only have wp for red
Blue keep will only have wp for blue
Green keep will only have wp for green
SM wp will need to be upgraded and any side that gets it t3 can use it.

Example: Green BL
The closest southern tower to red spawn (redbriar) will only have wp for red
The closest southern tower to blue spawn (bluebriar) will only have wp for blue
The Green Garrison will only have wp fo green.

So what youre saying is I read it correctly?

Well I was more concerned about the home team advantage of mobility on their own BL. I can see having less chance of mobility in EBG. Only if the server is absolutely dominant do they have weaypoints in all keeps in EBG.

I dont think the EBG change will have much if any effect. The Bl’s on the other hand, the ability to WP into the southern areas of your BL is going to be gone.

But as many have said, I am looking a this from the current map perspective.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

nightblood.7910:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

nightblood.7910:

What, break the only team support offering thief has?

The problem isn’t really the sharing of the venoms, the problem is how it interacts with wells, how a thief and 4 necros can decimate a zerg, and how immob stacks.

So what youre saying is the problem is the stability change and how that has affected this?

Well no actually stab doesnt affect immob.

The problem youre facing is that in HoT every thief in WvW will be running this due to the changes in teh trait system and still being able to deliver the goods even more so.

Hmm maybe its time that since stab took a nerf that it affect immob.

But I have to say if its pulsing the venoms with each pulse of the wells, then that doesnt seem correct. It should interact much like sigils do. The immob venom should only proc on the next two attacks which should only be two pulses of the wells.

Is it not doing that?

wait what? wtf? when did I mention stability at all? wow… Just wow…

Ok, to refrain from attacking I’m going to just address what you said…

I’m sorry but my thief hasn’t run venom share in a year, and won’t just because of a change in traits. Why you sit there and say all thieves will be running it, idk…

I don’t think stability should affect immob. First and foremost the immob in air needs fixed but that’s a different issue.

Whether the venoms are used up on the first pulse or not depends how many targets are in each well. If 1 target, then each stack will get used up on each pulse. If multiple targets in the well then it will hit them all. But this isn’t just 1 well dropping it, you have 4 wells on each other. You may think well that’s 20 targets right? It doesn’t even work that way, a handful of people will be effectively perma-immob for a bit, and destroyed because of 4 wells pulsing high damage on them, while they can’t do a thing to get out, because even if they removed the immob when the wells were dropped, it gets put right back on them again. If they wait and try to clear condis, they will now have other conditions that will get removed instead of the immob.

Calm down that was me thinking to myself kinda. Looking at possible resolutions to this.

I keep forgetting stab doesnt affect immob.

The reason I mentioned stab is looking for counter play. As always, any good skill needs a counter.

And I said “every” meaning metaphorically rather than literally because its easier to run it while still being able to deliver damage. To say exactly all will be running it, now I was incorrect, majority will though. Its already planned in team play PvP by the Abjured and so on because you will be able to still deliver the damage solo.

Of course some will choose acro (a selfish build) or crit strikes for whatever you feel crit strikes may be worth as its really not worth much in the new system over anything else that is available. Or other skills in the SA line that provide no team support.

I dont know how I keep forgetting the overreaction mentality of gw2 players on everything a person says. Ill keep that in mind next time.

Also there is at most 1 venom that immobs and it can only proc 3 times at most.

So if 3 people are standing in the well, then each may get hit with one stack of devourer venom. 4 wells really mean nothing to this. Its only on the next 3 attacks. So yes one person could get perma immobed by chance if no one else is stuck in said well. Or if there are multiple Necors dropping wells on the same spot, now you have more people.

But it doesnt aoe and pulse with each well which was stated earlier in this post.

Finally there is the resistance boon that is being added to this game, that I think is going to resolve much of the venom share problems anyway.

As resistance will counter it as it acts much like diamond skin.

So yeah actually, the counter to this and fix is on its way with resistance and aoe resistance from Revs.

Im curious to hear the thoughts of others on the waypoint system.

I for one do not see a need for waypoints in towers in your own borderland for the enemy team.

Also the lack of waypoints in the east and west keeps in the borderlands seems rather defeating to the home team or did I hear that wrong?

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

nightblood.7910:

What, break the only team support offering thief has?

The problem isn’t really the sharing of the venoms, the problem is how it interacts with wells, how a thief and 4 necros can decimate a zerg, and how immob stacks.

So what youre saying is the problem is the stability change and how that has affected this?

Well no actually stab doesnt affect immob.

The problem youre facing is that in HoT every thief in WvW will be running this due to the changes in teh trait system and still being able to deliver the goods even more so.

Hmm maybe its time that since stab took a nerf that it affect immob.

But I have to say if its pulsing the venoms with each pulse of the wells, then that doesnt seem correct. It should interact much like sigils do. The immob venom should only proc on the next two attacks which should only be two hits from the wells in the first pulse.

Is it not doing that?

Jim Hunter.6821:

D/P is more versatile, D/D has a bigger burst, there is nothing wrong with it. Also there is nothing stopping you from running both sets, yeah you’ll lose the utility of the shortbow but you’ll be very strong 1v1.

Hmm? How does D/D have a bigger burst? Or are we discussing the difference between panic strike and crit strikes?

D/D its cnd + steal → backstab.

D/P its Shadow shot (Which on crit stikes is like a 5k hit with stacks in WvW), some AA’s, blinding power + Heartseaker, → backstab. Not to mention I get to save my steal for stealing boons rather than being used as a gap closer on those who know how to fight a thief.

D/P is not restricted to panic strike, just many run it. Crit Strikes D/P can deliver the same goods as any other burst set up.

Jim Hunter.6821:

nightblood.7910:

I think the real problem here is that D/D has become obsolete on thief which really should be a fundamental weapon set.

I run D/P and well yeah rangers, if I lose to one its my fault.

But D/D lacks so much utility and defense that its steadily becoming obsolete.

I will admit, the only time rangers are a problem is in team fights where I will be putting myself in the most horrible situation taking them out as they hide behind so many people.

This argument makes no sense. Rangers are one of the easiest classes for d/d thieves because you can c&d off the pet.

Yeah but you lack the blinds and as the OP said getting an RF off before going stealth is not that hard.

D/D just lacks the defensive utilities that other builds offer from S/D evade + Gap Closers (Of which you still have CnD) to D/P blinds + Gap Closers. Playing D/P its rare that a ranger can keep me out of their face.

With D/D you can carry Inful. Sig. and if youre good with ShadowStep, you can somewhat keep the gap closed but when they go on CD now you have a problem.

I just see D/D as an inferior weapon set that needs some decent rework.

It needs a decent gap closer besides spamming HS. It needs some defensive condi like blind or better evades in the dual wield.

Also I will admit if were discussing brown bear power rangers, whatever just kill it. If youre up against a decent ranger, D/D is pretty underwhelming.

I play a thief and the biggest problem with mesmers I have found is that condis from clones are not scaled the same way damage from clones are.

Clone’s bleed should tick for like 1 and yes should take up space in the condi cap.

Other than that, I have no problems with clones or moa.

What, break the only team support offering thief has?

misterdevious.6482:

If the rewards were too good, it would draw in too many casual players and hurt WvW gameplay. WvW has limited capacity, and the people who play it are playing it because they like it, not because it is the fastest way to get rich or has the exclusive weapon skins.

I think that Anet’s original plan was for scouts and roamers to farm T6 mats near objectives when things were quiet. Arctoduses in the northeast, spiders in the south, minotaurs in the west…

Take for example Northeast Camp:

• Capturing Camp = 0.04% of a World Experience Rank.
• Defending Camp = 0.017% of a World Experience Rank.
• Killing Player = 0.000-0.012% of a World Experience Rank and chance at player loot.
• 1 World Experience Rank = ~25s and 2 pieces of loot, probably green
• Killing 4 Arctoduses and a Vet Arctodus = significant chance for either Potent Blood or Powerful Blood.

As a scout/escorter/roamer (missing out on those high wxp capture events), you are likely to make more money killing a random bear every once in awhile than you get from WxP ranks. I wonder if the new borderland will have anything similar to Chider…

But would causal players actually go to servers with already increased queue times? What causal player would want to deal with that but instead go towards servers with little or no queues.

Also, everyone had to “learn” WvW at some point, so I dont even pretend to accept the introduction of new players into WvW as a bad thing (also known as Noobs).

I think the real problem here is that D/D has become obsolete on thief which really should be a fundamental weapon set.

I run D/P and well yeah rangers, if I lose to one its my fault.

But D/D lacks so much utility and defense that its steadily becoming obsolete.

I will admit, the only time rangers are a problem is in team fights where I will be putting myself in the most horrible situation taking them out as they hide behind so many people.

Well honestly, Ive never been too hype on Achievement points myself. Ive always thought unique skins and gear should come from WvW as well as PvP(which PvP does, Glorious Armor https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glorious_armor). AP’s, honestly I dont even pay attention to them.

Reverence.6915:

DomAltares.8651:

Jim Hunter.6821:

DomAltares.8651:

Well, you know.

They are adding a new PVE dinosaur-fueled god gun to the new map that breaks down all outer gates. Maybe this is Anet’s way of balancing one unnecessary garbage mechanic with another?

Ugh why did you have to bring that up… I had almost convinced myself that stupid idea was a nightmare I had.

Because it still gives me nightmares, and I like to share the love.

I had purged this from my memory. Thanks for bringing it back up

Yeah this one I dont agree with, especially in lower tiers. Higher tiers will be able to fight 24/7 for this, lower tiers all it will take is a good sneaky 5 man team to take this over on off times.

This weapon really needs something else to activate it. Like gathering and carrying enough of something to it. Making it very difficult to use. It should also take time to fire it with an alert that it has been started. So the other server has a chance to react and interrupt it.

The guard buffs are whatever, this weapon is a complete game changer and if not done correctly and does not make a server work for it, it may be too much.

I wouldnt mind the idea that you have to work to accomplish it but the other server can “steal” that work by interrupting your fire and taking over the weapon.

This would make “feeding” the weapon a risk and you have to decide, do I even start this, much like the chieftain and Svanir in Forest on PvP. Those you can do all the work and some thief can run up and steal it from you. It adds an interesting game play and makes people think if they even want to start killing one of those NPC’s. (though I do admit, many dont think too hard.)

TJgalon.5012:

well that just for the two abilty our of all of them, i for one focus on other things too.

1390 for all WvW abilities.

DeceiverX.8361:

Zero Day.2594:

Sagat.3285:

Cynz.9437:

Sagat.3285:

BFMV.3198:

Because they are tampering with either stealth or revealed

Anet just delete the class

No other class has restrictions on its defenses

Necro…there is no need for such measures they see it as bug too.

except the bug wouldn’t happen unless they were messing around with stealth mechanics for the future changes…

I doubt this is the “beginning part” of a change it doesn’t add up with anything,maybe a change but not this type.

Yeah… Stuff doesn’t magically break or bug out unless something was done on it or around it.

Elite spec stuff maybe?

I’d argue otherwise. A patch a while ago broke ranger pet passive/active such that all pets would always force-attack anything targeted or attacking the ranger, even if on passive mode. No changes have been made to AI or the ranger as a class since. It took ANet almost six weeks to roll out the solution because they had no idea what was causing the problem. The same issue also happened this patch.

A bad name or pointer can cause all sorts of errors even if in totally unrelated segments of the game.

Hey wait, can we make pets attack the rangers they belong to? Now that would be a cool feature. The animals get tired of the oppression.

TJgalon.5012:

out of curisoy, how many level does it take to hit max abilty, since i just recently hit 110 and that was a lot of effort it seem.

For guard stacks? 230.

Which puts you at a bronze recruit. I dont understand how that equates to “Veteran of the game” but whatever.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Are you for or against buffs? Just a bit back you wanted all buffs removed, now you are going out of your way to show that there will be all these buffs possible (which really seems like they will be easy to disable or steal so little actual benefit really)

I can do with or without them. I really think it gives better skillful play without them, but I do fine with them as well.

You actually have to read your opponent, youre not going to gank them down to nothing almost instantly, you actually have to put up a fight without all these buffs.

But as I did tonight, I can run around ganking people down from stealth all night long.

I also dont understand the whole “This is rewarding for players who have been playing for a long time.” Its the first dag on thing you put points in and does not take a long time to accumulate this. I have it on all my toons, as you only have to get it on one. You have to have it because well its there and everyone else runs it.

I dont even comprehend the ideal of it being a reward for being a veteran of the game. Any new player can rack those up in a week.

It looks like they actually going to buff more things than just power and vitality, you just have to work for them and you dont get to keep them for long though.

Shrines

Along the outskirts of each of the three elemental keeps are three shrines of matching elements, making a total of nine shrines. Much like a sentry post, these can be captured by a single player. Controlling shrines gives you two important advantages. First, by interacting with a shrine that your team controls, you will gain a five-minute elemental blessing effect. This effect increases both your movement speed and either your attack damage, critical-strike chance, or defense, depending on which elemental blessing you received. More importantly, the other reason to control shrines is that they confer important strategic bonuses to the team that controls the keep of the same element. And for each shrine controlled, the team controlling the keep gains an additional benefit. For example, for each Shrine of Air controlled, the defending team gains access to things like jump pads, wind turrets that can blow invaders off the cliff face, and even immunity to falling damage while within the region. At the fire keep, controlling Shrines of Fire grants the defending team the ability to transform into fiery hounds, turns on fireball-spitting gargoyle turrets, and grants immunity to burning and lava damage. The earth keep gains automatic defenses like lodestones that impair enemy movement, pop-up rock walls that block off sections of the canyons when invaders approach, and a sandstorm that provides stealth for allies within.

You know people are going nuts over this, They clearly said in one of the beginning introductions of the new maps for WvW, there will be objectives to take that give buffs to the server who holds them.

Dawdler.8521:

Hexalot.8194:

nightblood.7910:

This is a great thing, power creep roaming has been out of control in WvW. Honestly if they removed food, utility buffs and stacking sigils, it would get even better and likely you would see less people staying in the safety of the zerg.

I jumped from WvW to PvP and PvP is so much more balanced and a real challenge.

You just described perfectly why there is a game mode called PVP and one called WvW. You want a game mode where everyone is standardized, “balanced” with virtually no advantage whatsoever with everyone using virtually the same thing ?

Go to PVP.

But… why does that matter when NO ONE has applied fortitude and strength? It still becomes the same thing. Sure you have less vitality and less power – the enemy got less vitality and less power as well. Equal terms. But its still PvE gear, with all its options and diversity, far more than PvP setups.

We managed to do WvW just fine before the WvW skill system was even thought of. No bonuses to siege (remember when arrowcarts did no damage?), no player buffs, no borderlands buff etc.

This is also a good buff to guild fights in open WvW. No more one side killing everyone and them wanting to have a second go at each other, but now its completely loopsided because one side has buffs and the other dont. Isnt this what we want? This change will be great for balancing small scale and roamers. No more coming fresh out of spawn and meeting that 1 thief that’s so buffed he can barely walk right. Again, isnt this what we want?

I really dont understand why people are so negative. The added buff was meaningless to begin with. It didnt make WvW better.

My point exactly, when you get rid of Buff Wars, you open up roaming to a whole new set of people and classes. When you can stack up 3.2K power in a toon like that, it doesnt balance with vitality at all.

There is hardly any counter play available and mostly its who gets first hit. Because WvW is buff wars.

It also tames the thieves running SA in WvW. Another complaint amongst many WvW’s. They cant stack as much power and still run SA at the same time. With the buff’s coming to SA and the new trait system. Its likely a good thing. (BTW I run thief).

Now they get rid of food, utility, and stacking sigils, Someone cant trait defensively and still allow them to max damage. It will actually have to be the give and take all MMO’s have called balance.

The more they reduce power creep and take the edge off the total attribute points that can be gained, the more roaming, small scale fighting will happen.

Jim Hunter.6821:

nightblood.7910:

This is a great thing, power creep roaming has been out of control in WvW. Honestly if they removed food, utility buffs and stacking sigils, it would get even better and likely you would see less people staying in the safety of the zerg.

I jumped from WvW to PvP and PvP is so much more balanced and a real challenge.

The dumbed down stats in PvP are a big part of the reason why cele specs are so strong. There isn’t a power creep in WvW, there is just higher stats which adds a wider variety of viable builds.

Yeah but the cele amulet is getting a nerf in PvP. And there are still plenty of full zerk classes running in PvP, I go up against them daily. Im one of them.

I also can say, in WvW I can almost one shot people as a thief, in PvP I cant and I have to fight.

WvW its all about who gets the first hit, no extended fighting and real fighting as it is in PvP.

The dumbed down stats allows for better recovery from bursts, thieves dont even need to run SA (well I dont in WvW), Power Creep doesnt exist in PvP like it does in WvW.

This is a great thing, power creep roaming has been out of control in WvW. Honestly if they removed food, utility buffs and stacking sigils, it would get even better and likely you would see less people staying in the safety of the zerg.

I jumped from WvW to PvP and PvP is so much more balanced and a real challenge.

Well just logged in an no reveal. Its fixed.

well being Im still downloading the patch now I dont know how someone else has downloaded and tested it out.

Lauren Kamieniecki.6245:

nightblood.7910:

DeWolfe.2174:

Lauren Kamieniecki.6245:

Mal.1670:

Lauren Kamieniecki.6245:

Well the fix looks pretty good so far, and we’re on track soooooooo…

“supa soon” is all I am going to say here. If it fails last minute please don’t poison my coffee… I need it for life ._.

Don’t get too comfortable, poisoning is what thieves do best

nuuuuuu my coffee ._.

and you won’t even us coming… muahahahaha
5,2,2 and away

side note: at least we’re not stuck “living with it” for as long as the stealth on steal bug.

Yeah they will see us. Remember…..Stealth Bug.

Hey at least ya’ll weren’t kicked out of PVP like those poor Mesmers were. I never got a chance to crack a joke about that other than internally… also don’t stab me, I play a Mesmer too.

Mesmers should be used to not being able to PvP by now :P

DeWolfe.2174:

Lauren Kamieniecki.6245:

Mal.1670:

Lauren Kamieniecki.6245:

Well the fix looks pretty good so far, and we’re on track soooooooo…

“supa soon” is all I am going to say here. If it fails last minute please don’t poison my coffee… I need it for life ._.

Don’t get too comfortable, poisoning is what thieves do best

nuuuuuu my coffee ._.

and you won’t even us coming… muahahahaha
5,2,2 and away

side note: at least we’re not stuck “living with it” for as long as the stealth on steal bug.

Yeah they will see us. Remember…..Stealth Bug.

Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?
Are we there yet?

Also as a thief Ive adpoted killing rangers as my job in a team fight. If they are on a ledge somewhere at mid, I go right for them. Mostly because being left to free cast they can kill me fairly quick.

They are generally on my top of the list as to who to target first cause Rapid fire can ruin your day if youre fighting something else.

BlackPowder + Heart Seaker to get in range where shadow shot will work.

From there, I generally just keep em blinded and basically chomp away at them. IF they kite, shadow shot to them again. They will inherently try to put some distance between you and them. Dont let them.

ShadowStep will get you right out of the knockback if they land it, I usually just shadowstep right back to them or you could use infiltrator’s signet for this.

Most low level Rangers are pretty easy to kill, once you get up in dealing with higher ranked ones they get a little more cleaver with their 2 skills they use.

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/601028659407912961

ronpierce.2760:

It doesn’t seem that inconsistent. It seems like it gives you a revealed debuff after you’ve gained 3 stacks of stealth from either blasting or leaps, or 3 additional ticks of stealth from Shadow’s refuge (not including the initial entry) to avoid stacking, and you gain revealed every time you exit stealth.

Seems like they’re trying to make it so you can’t continually stack stealth without leaving it, and you gain revealed upon exit, likely to promote actually attacking from stealth rather than using it to flee. I’m not so sure this is a bug because it’s very formulaic the more I toy with it.

Edit; Maybe I’m wrong, someone said it was confirmed a bug on twitter. That said, I suspect it’s only a bug in terms of not functioning fully as intended yet and wasn’t supposed to go into this patch. Wait and see game, go!

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/601028659407912961

Yeah I responded in that thread with this as well. It basically gives the debuff when any stack of stealth ends. Its why SR is broken. Ive said before, they might have been toying with the idea of a 2 sec debuff when coming out of stealth period.

But it does it as soon as the first stack ends. I dont think they are attacking stacking stealth but likely attacking the ability to immediately stealth after being stealthed. If they are toying around with the idea. If its to stop stacking stealth they would need to change SR to give 15 seconds of stealth at once which would break the counter play of SR which is knocking the thief out of it.

https://twitter.com/GuildWars2/status/601028659407912961

Its a bug, they said on their twitter they are working on a fix.

Quinci.5968:

pepper.6179:

Quinci.5968:

ChoChoBo.6503:

Spear of Justice’s tether is the same as Necromancer’s Deathshroud’s Tainted Shackles. You just need to move away to break it. No biggie.

The real issue will be how much ‘Revealed’ debuff they’re giving to all the professions to counter Thief’s stealth. Though I think they should of added more counter to stealth ages ago, so I’m rooting for it. The real question should be how thieves are going to counter all the added ‘revealed’ debuff.

My guess is by playing mostly acro instead of shadow.

gonna need better condi clear than

Agreed. I currently put 2 points in SA specifically for the condi clear. Not sure how I’ll do without it. A few seconds of resistance at the very start of the fight isn’t going to make up for it.

Pain response removes burning (as well as poison and bleeding) and grants regen.

Combined with te new Hard To Catch, Im thinking the acro line is going to be pretty impressive solo play. Team play will go to SA though for Venom Share.

Im also thinking if I do run Acro, quick Pockets is going to be my GM due to the obvious nerf to initiative regen. I just wished it did more. Maybe 5 or 6 points of initiative on weapon swap. The Acro GM’s are kinda meh.

Yeah Im not fully interested in the weapon so to speak but the utilities and new mechanics that come with the elite.

If its rifle and is a sniper mentality, then I probably wont use it myself. I like the high mobility idea of thief as it stands now especially with SB.

While we have no range, we have the best gap closers in game making us technically ranged.

Since necro got shouts, which the new Reaper looks pretty awesome, Im more interested in where they are going to go with thieves in utilities and traits of the elite.

EvilSardine.9635:

This is actually the way it should be. A thief shouldn’t be able to just stack stealth indefinitely and the way it is now promotes more skillful gameplay.

I main thief and I have zero complaints about the change really. Just adapt. The thief is one of the strongest dueling, small man team, and roaming classes in the game.

P.S. If you’re losing to a warrior as a thief you have no idea what you’re doing.

Well yes and no. I would agree with you that a limited reveal when leaving stealth like 2 or 1.5 sec would be acceptable (I Dont speak for everyone), but the way it currently is breaks stacking of stealth and breaks SR. That, I dont agree with.

I generally play a crit strikes D/P build in PvP and Im not in stealth that often and a 2 sec or 1.5 sec reveal when I leave stealth wouldnt even affect me really. As a matter of fact, I get aggravated when I jack a thief and Last refuge procs for them. Then I have to find them again. As a matter of fact it would make thief on thief 1v1’s so much better as it will no longer be about who stealths first and gets the first gib on the next guy. It would also limit the CND of D/D and S/d.

Now with that said, everyone would end up running a crit strikes D/P build because dagger off hand just became useless with a 2 sec reveal on leaving stealth and last refuge is no longer useful with Panic Strike. The more I think about it, it would screw up so many other builds than the one I use that even a 2 sec reveal would not be acceptable when leaving stealth.

It would make dagger off hand useless.

P.S. That depends on the warrior.

But I will say, as true 1v1 arena, where you have to come into one of the PvP maps, find the player, and then fight. Disengage and reengage being part of the fight. Maybe not as large as one of the PvP maps.

Like a 1v1 at clock tower where you have plenty of LoS blocks, places to teleport, and basically use an entire skill bar to its fullest.

I just think current “dueling” limits players skill set vs using it to its fullest. I play a thief, but even take a mesmer and portal, being able to effectively use it in a duel is rare and Ive only seen one person that could pull it off. They were on GoM.

So yeah I would be down for a dueling arena that was more than just flat land.

I generally dont like duels. They really have no meaning to real fights in WvW or PvP as I Play a thief and the element of surprise is part of my playstyle. (especially WvW where thieves can one shot each other for the most part) And if you try to duel other thieves, its almost always them trying to jack you while you are bowing. I pretty much gave up on duels myself but sure as heck do not run from a 1v1 in PvP. As that is where I am mostly.

With that said, the reason I dont agree with it, is that its just another grieving model to this game that is not needed. Especially the “public” duel. If the person does not accept the duel it will be public shaming for not doing so and so on.. If they do and get beat, it will be even worse.

Keep in mind, the meta is generally what the “pros” stick to in their teams.

Take Phantaram, when he solo queues, hes on a fresh air ele which is not even part of the meta and considered subpar to D/D on metabattle.

There are plenty of DPS warriors running around sPvP, some really good.

WilnerGW.3275:

Its looks like a nerf to thief, since the engineers can normal stack stealth with the smoke bomb.

Obviously, it looks like a bug. There is no doubt in my mind that they have no plans to break SR like this.

Why have the skill in the first place apply stealth every pulse?

The problem is in stacking of stealth, you cant right now. Its a bug.

Gabriell.4856:

Josh Davis.6015:

I don’t think this is intended, but I’ll need to follow-up with the skills team in the morning to be sure. Either way, I started an email chain about this. Thanks for the reports.

Stealth ending cause reveal…each attacks hitting a thief reduce 1 second of stealth. That isn’t something a bug can cause…it’s multiple lines of coding and was accidentally included in this patch before HOT. Thieves are kittened.

As this bug currently is right now, it completely breaks SR. I seriously doubt they are planning to completely break that skill. Worst case scenario, we see a 2 sec debuf when exiting stealth, if that is even the case.

Obviously if they were going to make a change to stealth, it wouldnt completely break SR like it is right now. Even if they intend to make a change to stealth, its not going to be this.