Guild Wars 2

Hello, friends!

There seem to be a lot of Rangers on the forums recently claiming that Rangers have no place in PvP and are “useless” outside of PvE. This is patently untrue.

A lot of Rangers don’t want to share their builds because they’re afraid of not being a unique snowflake or something. I don’t know. In any case, I’m here to share my Ranger PvP build. This is what I use in sPvP and tPvP and it’s pretty spectacular. I know that at least one or two other Rangers on the forums run something incredibly similar, so I don’t have to worry about being a unique snowflake.

There are a few variations, but they all do essentially the same thing: provide high survivability through damage mitigation, non-removable healing, and condition removal. Damage is medium to medium-high with on command burst potential and tough, high damage pets.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mcoVMzm9MmvagMmvagM9MxaxcRqcmsb

Weapon Selection:
Weapons are highly variable, as there is no specific focus on any particular weapon, just on survivability. There is a slight benefit to using weapons which benefit from condition damage as there is +300 condition damage right off the bat from Wilderness Survival. I personally prefer direct damage as the only way to avoid it is through high armor or complete mitigation (block, dodge, etc.).

• Sword
  Sword provides a lot of burst potential due to the high attack speed. Burst can be drastically improved on command via quickness through either Quickening Zephyr every 60 seconds or Zephyr’s Speed every 15 seconds. In addition, on demand evasion potential is gained through weapon skills.

• Off Hand Options
• Dagger is an ideal pairing for sword. The extra evasive attacks pair very well with the sword. Crippling Talon prevents targets from easily escaping and the poison from Stalker’s Strike can prevent an opponent from healing as effectively.
• Torch can provide extra damage for a condition build as well as a fire combo field that can benefit axe main hand by applying burning or sword via fire aura. Not as useful for a direct damage build.
• Axe has limited usefulness for most builds. Whirling Defense is an excellent counter to ranged attackers, but has limited usefulness in melee combat as it greatly limits mobility. On the upside, it can apply up to 12 stacks of vulnerability to anyone dumb enough to stay in melee range and is excellent inside combo fields. Path of Scars is also an excellent AoE column attack.
• Warhorn is the second best choice for pairing with sword, assuming it isn’t taken as an off hand for the axe in the second weapon set. Call of the Wild is arguably one of the best boons in the game. Hunter’s Call provides an excellent amount of burst and is unlikely to be obstructed while in melee range.

• Greatsword
  Greatsword is an excellent defensive option and has the potential for the highest burst when used in combination with QZ and ZS. Evasion is excellent during quickness, but otherwise requires auto attack to be turned off to use reliably on demand, which hurts overall damage. Excellent ranged defense with Counterattack.

• Ranged Options
• Axe is an excellent choice to pair with sword/dagger as it allows warhorn to be used as well. Off hand options for the axe are the same as above, though anything other than torch or warhorn are not highly recommended.
• Longbow is an effective tool to control an opponent headed into melee range. Barrage can be used to slow and damage an approaching opponent while they are softened up with Hunter’s Shot and Rapid Fire.
• Shortbow can be used as a primary weapon in a condition build. Sword/torch makes an excellent secondary weapon for shortbow, allowing the placement of a fire field which allows fire aura, as well as burning from the shortbow while an enemy is in melee range.

Sigils:
Personal preference plays a large part here. I personally put Hydromancy on melee weapons coupled with Fire if dual wielding. Energy on ranged weapons coupled with Fire if dual wielding. The reasoning is that swapping will happen in melee range and Hydromancy causes an AoE chill effect and damage. After finishing an opponent in melee combat, the switch back to a ranged weapon should happen, replenishing any energy lost through dodge rolling. Fire is my preferred damage sigil as it does a good amount of damage and it’s an AoE.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

That isnt the point of the videos. Its to show that we need incredibly lucky situations to get certain pets to land hits and our arrows to land. Ive foughten many great players and they kite and dodge the hell out of my arrows and pet, seriously, why is it saying out of range or obstructed on every shot. Bug was working overtime for me today.

Whaaat? This is wrong. We don’t need to be “incredibly lucky” to get our pets to land attacks or our arrows to hit. The majority of my arrows land in PvP, even with people moving.

If someone is standing in one spot spastically mashing their strafe keys, then arrows might miss. If they’re doing this, your pet will eat them alive. If you’re standing there and continuing to shoot them while they’re doing this, that’s your own fault. Good players aren’t going to stand in one spot and strafe back and forth just to dodge a few arrows from a Ranger.

Nobody is arguing that there are currently a plethora of Ranger bugs that need to be addressed, but making videos like this is a waste of time for everybody.

If you’re standing still and shooting at a target that’s strafing back and forth while your pet sits by your side, you’re a terrible player and you deserve to lose every one on one you get into. Just sayin’.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Sigh.

You’re clearly and utterly missing the points of the videos. Go troll somewhere else.

No, I got the point of the videos. It’s to showcase unrealistic scenarios to facilitate more boohooing on the Ranger forums and to beat to death a completely dead and decomposed horse. I got it.

Somebody send me about a thousand bucks and I’ll upgrade my PC so I can make some videos of Rangers doing awesome things. We have enough videos of Rangers drowning in their own tears.

Yeah, I’m pretty sure the original post was sarcasm.

It wasn’t actually a nerf, it was a bug fix. There was a replicable bug that would allow you to drop more than one trap of the same type. Also known as an exploit.

Esrever.8613:

if you miss with the muddy terrain you are screwed is what I saw.

He missed a couple times with Muddy Terrain and still won the fights. Not sure what video you were watching.

Mesh.1506:

nldixon.8514:

[Edit: And just for the record, the wolf pet would have leaped and knocked him down had you not been spamming the attack button to override the pet queue.]

He doesn’t spam auto-attack until the last 10 seconds of the video, the first 20 feature the pet trying and failing to get into any sort of opportunity to launch an attack.

I agree that these are unrealistic circumstances and rangers aren’t completely and utterly useless as some people like to claim, but the fact remains that everything shown in all 3 of these videos should NOT be happening, under any circumstances.

I absolutely agree with you. But they’re all issues that everybody and their brother is already aware of and making videos about it and crying on the forum doesn’t really accomplish much of anything. Except making Rangers look like crybabies.

Like I said, the horse is supremely dead.

AlexRD.7914:

nldixon.8514:

Yes, everybody knows that pet pathing is awful and arrows are easy to dodge.

The videos are pointless though, because no real fight is going to play out like that unless it’s a bad player versus a bad player.

Everybody already knows about these issues. Making videos in unrealistic situations to showcase the problem doesn’t accomplish anything.

The horse is dead.

[Edit: And just for the record, the wolf pet would have leaped and knocked him down had you not been spamming the attack button to override the pet queue.]

Well, actually this happens if the player fighting the ranger is smart. For instance, while defending a fort, if the attackers are smart, they don’t need to worry about the ranger, cause they only have to strafe left and right. AND, when defending a fort, the obstructed bug becomes 10 times worse.
( What i showed was actually someone dodging arrows at 600-700 range, try doing that at 1200 range and you’ll see what i mean)

When fighting any class that kites, your pet will be useless and will serve as a Cloak and Dagger target for the thief.

And, just for the record, i just spammed the attack button on the end, just to show how that wouldn’t have helped.

Yes, you’re right. I know that every single time I’m attacking a fort the defenders are constantly doing the peepee dance back and forth on the walls while laughing and hurling insults at the hordes of Rangers attacking their fort. Oh, wait…

Nobody realistically does this for several reasons, the most important reason being that they’re going to be actively trying to kill you instead of dancing back and forth. Second, if they stand there doing that dumb dance while there are other players around, they’re going to get smashed.

You act like this is something everybody does every time they see a Ranger. They don’t, because a Ranger with a bow isn’t some terrifying force of nature that everyone flees from the second they see one.

Finally, by spamming the attack button you’re actually making your pet less effective by filling its queue with the attack command instead of allowing to actually use its abilities. I have a feeling you knew this, but in case you didn’t, now you do.

Vox Hollow.2736:

This is a touch too contrived to be a good and proper commiserating thread.

Hit the nail on the head.

Yes, everybody knows that pet pathing is awful and arrows are easy to dodge.

The videos are pointless though, because no real fight is going to play out like that unless it’s a bad player versus a bad player.

Everybody already knows about these issues. Making videos in unrealistic situations to showcase the problem doesn’t accomplish anything.

The horse is dead.

[Edit: And just for the record, the wolf pet would have leaped and knocked him down had you not been spamming the attack button to override the pet queue.]

Daemon.4295:

Yeah a lot of people say that and I do believe it, but personally I don’t want to bother with a broken weapon. I’d rather just wait for Anet to fix it to be honest, I get along pretty well in sPvP with SB and Axe/WH anyway.

Yeah, honestly it’s about using what you’re most comfortable with. I don’t mind getting in somebody’s grill and going to town with a sword and dagger. It’s especially fun because after you shred somebody a couple of times, they start avoiding you or just plain running. when they see you.

Dahkeus.8243:

@ Nldixon: You’re putting sword over short bow? Seriously? It’s good, but short bow is still king.

Absolutely. The only reason I’d ever use shortbow over a sword is if I had The Dreamer, because it shoots rainbows and it is the most kitten weapon ever.

The damage is comparable, but sword brings way more utility to the table, especially in combination with dagger. Which is what I use 95% of the time in PvP.

I’m not saying I don’t like shortbow, because I do, but I just prefer other weapons over it.

Daemon.4295:

Well a lot of people just really like warhorn for the spike and buff. That doesn’t make dagger or off-hand axe bad weapons, in fact they’re both really useful. I often find myself in situations in sPVP where I wish I had the dagger’s evade or the axe’s projectile reflection, unfortunately you can’t have everything.

The only Ranger weapon IMO that is outright terrible is the sword, due to the root bug. I know some people remove autoattack, but mashing the 1 key on my keyboard just isn’t worth it to me. It’s a shame though, I reckon sword could be a really fun and effective weapon if only it worked properly.

Sword is actually really, really awesome. It is hands down the best PvP weapon we have. No joke. You don’t even have to turn off auto-attack. You just have to get used to timing your dodges.

As long as you’re running with melee assist and auto-targeting off, you’ll be good.

This wasn’t addressed in the patch. This is pretty much game breaking for anyone trying to level in Kryta, thanks to the large number of bandit mobs.

There is a reason most MMOs have test servers. It’s to prevent patches like the one tonight from going live. Holy. Smokes.

You guys need a test server like whoa.

Alsonia.4753:

Now spam a knockdown; once you get hit once. You’re dead there is no getting up.

This is everywhere. A bandit with a rifle will spam you with knockback/knockdown until you’re dead. It’s particularly awesome when there are more than one.

It appears bandits with hammer spam KB/KD attacks too.

YAY!

And bandits which apply perma blindness.

I totally understand, but the ability doesn’t actually do anything new. It just works like it’s supposed to now. It does the exact same thing it used to do, but at maximum range and without the bugs.

I’m not complaining, I’m glad they’re finally fixing things. Just pointing out that you could get the exact same results before the fix. You can now just do it at 1500 and without the bugs.

Panther Chameleon.8465:

This is why I roll longbow/greatsword and I think that it’s the only viable build for pvp because you never want to be in melee with how squishy Rangers are. If they do come at you try and defend with gs and switch to longbow for a knockback, aoe cripple, and rapid fire. I did the trapper/torch cond thing for a while and it’s fun, but stopped after they patched the traps. OP you should try and defend a point with a guardian and stick to high ground. Use guard to place your pet near the cap and you can switch guard with another utility once the cd is done. Your pet will remain guarding and you can use something else like Quickening Zephyr. Also, try experimenting with Siamoth because “plasma” gives you all boons plus combine it with RaO and runes of lyssa which can be very useful in any situation.

If my computer wasn’t a total piece of junk, I’d gladly take video of my Ranger crushing pretty much every profession in melee combat. I have to run everything on the lowest settings to even play, so if I was running Fraps in the background too, I’d probably be getting like 5 FPS. Hehe.

Ranger is surprisingly durable in melee combat. I very rarely lose one on one fights.

Just had a chance to watch this. Very nice.

I liked the two on one. Way to come out on top.

blud.8174:

nldixon.8514:

blud.8174:

Arrys.7145:

Taym.8326:

racta.4250:

HOLD ON!!!!!

They actually stealth fixed “Opening Strikes”

It works at all ranges now AND works with all long bow abilities.

Thats actually a really really nice fix for longbow. Starting a fight with 20% vulnerability on people, I’ve been blowing them up!

Check for more stealth fixes imo

The lizard pets now properly apply it too, that is an unexpected change. It also no longer disappears on missed hits, so you are promised a 10 stack of vulnerability. Thats fairly huge.

Does the quick math. 10% endurance full, + 10% FLanking, +10% thief armor runes also flanking, 20% penetration + 5% weapon damage, (10% spirit 35% of time) = 165% damage potential to open a fight pre crit? 145% not flanking 135% reliably…..

OMG……….

Can someone explain this to me? Opening strike gives 5 stacks of vulnerability, each stack is 1% so that’s 5%, right? I’m not following the bonuses listed here…

• Steady Focus
• Hunter’s Tactics
• Rune of the Thief
• Hunter’s Shot + Opening Strike + Alpha Training
• Eagle Eye

Plus the spirit, but they’re junk and shouldn’t even be included.

[Edit: In case you’re still not following: 10 stacks from Hunter’s Shot, 5 stacks from Opening Strike, 5 stacks from Alpha Training. 20 stacks of vulnerability.]

Thanks for replying!

I don’t think it’s sensible to include pet’s opening strike in that because that’s another source of damage entirely. So that comes out to 15% (Hunter’s Shot, Opening Strike) + 5% (Eagle Eye) + 20% (Hunter’s Tactics and Thief Rune) + 10% Steady Focus =50%

You do get 300 to Power in the Marksmanship line though. I don’t think we should get ecstatic because it can easily be countered with decent armor. You also sacrifice survivability.

No, the 20% is just the extra damage from vulnerability. The pet applies the five stacks of vulnerability to your target in the form of a debuff. So the target is taking a constant 20% extra damage from all sources, including you and your pet. The other damage comes from the abilities I listed above.

Durzlla.6295:

Dealing up to 170% damage from 1500 yds, yup, that won’t be jumped on pretty quickly!

PS: frost spirit actually has no ICD, so you trait that to 50% chance per shot and you got some mean damage!!

Except that you’re not really dealing 170% extra damage. Opening Strike only applies to your first attack. Which in all likelihood is going to be Hunter’s Shot to apply your first 10 stacks of vulnerability. So you’re going get the critical damage from Precise Strike, but it’s going to be on Hunter’s Shot with zero stacks of vulnerability.

garethh.3518:

Axe/dagger is decent.
Axe offhand is just terrible.

Care to elaborate?

Dagger brings a ranged cripple to the table and an evasive attack with poison. Neither of which do a particularly high amount of damage.

Axe brings a column attack that hits everything on its way out and on its way back in for significantly more damage than either dagger attack and a defensive attack that causes significant damage and vulnerability to all targets in melee range as well as reflecting all projectile attacks for five seconds.

I’m not saying that dagger is worse than axe (I personally use sword/dagger in PvP), I just don’t understand why dagger is being chosen as an off hand. I just picked axe as an example because it’s generally considered the “worst” off hand by most Rangers. There are better arguments for axe and warhorn over dagger.

Lorian.4028:

I would not call an effective elementalist play style a rotation. Much like the Ranger and especially the engineer, the ele usually has the right tool at any given time and can access it with ease for the most effective use. If you are playing ele just to spam cool downs no wonder you had no fun. I get a feeling we are just going to disagree on this one.

Probably. I tried to play an Elementalist “tactically” by using abilities when necessary, but there really aren’t that many. For the most part it was following a routine. Start in X element, use the following abilities, swap to element Y, use the following abilities, swap to element Z, use the following abilities. Roll around until element X is off CD. Rinse and repeat.

/snore

It’s just not that much fun to me.

Durzlla.6295:

blud.8174:

Arrys.7145:

Taym.8326:

racta.4250:

HOLD ON!!!!!

They actually stealth fixed “Opening Strikes”

It works at all ranges now AND works with all long bow abilities.

Thats actually a really really nice fix for longbow. Starting a fight with 20% vulnerability on people, I’ve been blowing them up!

Check for more stealth fixes imo

The lizard pets now properly apply it too, that is an unexpected change. It also no longer disappears on missed hits, so you are promised a 10 stack of vulnerability. Thats fairly huge.

Does the quick math. 10% endurance full, + 10% FLanking, +10% thief armor runes also flanking, 20% penetration + 5% weapon damage, (10% spirit 35% of time) = 165% damage potential to open a fight pre crit? 145% not flanking 135% reliably…..

OMG……….

Can someone explain this to me? Opening strike gives 5 stacks of vulnerability, each stack is 1% so that’s 5%, right? I’m not following the bonuses listed here…

You AND the pet put up 5 stacks, then there’s hunters shot which is 20% total, plus all of his other bonuses plus his force signet and then if you got 25+ points in marks its a guaranteed crit for you and pet on opening… Lets just say I have a strong feeling rangers are gonna have some OP as hell burst builds coming in soon…

How? It didn’t work as a burst ability before, it’s still not going to work now. The only change was that Opening Strike actually works past 600 units now (or was it 900 units?). It’s still working exactly as it did before, it just works at longer range.

It sounds good, it’s just (still) not that great of a solo ability.

Now, in a group situation it’s pretty nice. Increasing damage from everyone by 20% nearly instantly is pretty huge. The only real flaw is that if there is anybody else also building for vulnerability, you’re both rendered slightly less effective, since it only stacks to 25.

blud.8174:

Arrys.7145:

Taym.8326:

racta.4250:

HOLD ON!!!!!

They actually stealth fixed “Opening Strikes”

It works at all ranges now AND works with all long bow abilities.

Thats actually a really really nice fix for longbow. Starting a fight with 20% vulnerability on people, I’ve been blowing them up!

Check for more stealth fixes imo

The lizard pets now properly apply it too, that is an unexpected change. It also no longer disappears on missed hits, so you are promised a 10 stack of vulnerability. Thats fairly huge.

Does the quick math. 10% endurance full, + 10% FLanking, +10% thief armor runes also flanking, 20% penetration + 5% weapon damage, (10% spirit 35% of time) = 165% damage potential to open a fight pre crit? 145% not flanking 135% reliably…..

OMG……….

Can someone explain this to me? Opening strike gives 5 stacks of vulnerability, each stack is 1% so that’s 5%, right? I’m not following the bonuses listed here…

• Steady Focus
• Hunter’s Tactics
• Rune of the Thief
• Hunter’s Shot + Opening Strike + Alpha Training
• Eagle Eye

Plus the spirit, but they’re junk and shouldn’t even be included.

[Edit: In case you’re still not following: 10 stacks from Hunter’s Shot, 5 stacks from Opening Strike, 5 stacks from Alpha Training. 20 stacks of vulnerability.]

Check the link in my signature. It’s a melee oriented build (though any weapons can be used, really) that’s focused on a balanced approach to survival and damage. It’s mainly for PvE, but still does pretty well in PvP.

I’m planning on doing the same thing for another build I’ve been using lately in PvP sometime in the near future.

Spirit builds are not particularly viable, because (to be totally blunt) spirits are awful. They die almost instantly to anything that sneezes in their direction.

Even fully traited, they’re still bad.

Melee builds, however, can be incredibly viable if played correctly with the correct build (there are probably three to four melee builds that are viable).

YumCHA.8706:

Uhhhh… Thief?

Wow.

Better to learn your nemesis so you can be prepared for the next time you clash with another said thief. In your Ranger that is.

Are you talking to me? I don’t lose to Thieves. Thanks for your concern though.

I’ve got 90 something games played on the Thief profession. It’s a one trick pony profession. It’s boring, not very much fun, and only good for stomping new players and bad players.

Why axe/dagger? I can’t think of a worse combination. Is the dagger just for the poison on Stalker’s Strike? You’d be better off going with axe off-hand and using the whirl finisher inside Bonfire and Healing Spring for healing bolts and burning bolts.

I applaud you for thinking outside the box and trying something different, but you’d probably have some more success using different weapons. Sword/torch is kind of an odd setup, since you really only get flame aura from the leap, which is useful, but can be applied just as easily by going axe/torch while closing into melee range (or while someone is closing in on you) and swapping to sword/axe, sword/dagger, or greatsword once they’re in melee range. That way you could lay down Bonfire right before they close in on you, put burning on them with axes and Throw Torch, then swap to your melee weapon for fire aura on leap.

Also, you might get more mileage out of Troll Unguent. It can’t be stripped/stolen and you’re already using Signet of Renewal. If you’re still having trouble with conditions, you could always try Empathic Bond.

Spirit of Nature is kind of “bleh” in PvP. I’d swap it out for Rampage as One, mainly for the stability. Protect Me is kind of “bleh” too, in my opinion. Killing your pet to stay alive is kind of a catch 22, since you lose damage and survivability.

What build are you running?

[Edit: About the clicking, it didn’t seem to affect you too much, which is why I didn’t mention it, but if you spend a few hours training yourself to use hotkeys instead of clicking, you’d probably improve your game play significantly.]

[Edit 2: I forgot to mention your use of Spirit of Nature at the end. The self res was pretty clutch.]

Lorian.4028:

nldixon.8514:

PearlGore.7419:

So, I love my Ranger despite the clear issues and will continue to use her. But I do want to level at least one other class to 80, problem is I’m having a hell of a time deciding on what class.

As Rangers that love well… Rangers. What other classes have you been able to enjoy most? I have tried all the casters and hate them, I also hated the Guardian. It seems to me that a Warrior might offer work out, I just want something as good at solo PvE as my Ranger.

I’ve played every class pretty extensively in PvP and a little bit in PvE.

For PvP:

• Ranger
• Necromancer
• Engineer
• Warrior
• Guardian
• Mesmer
• Thief
• Elementalist

For PvE:

• Ranger
• Guardian
• Engineer
• Warrior
• Necromancer
• Mesmer
• Thief
• Elementalist

The other classes are all pretty boring after playing Ranger, to be honest.

I disagree. I have leveled my Ranger to 80 a while ago and although I still play him I have found Elementalist to be very engaging and when played correctly very active and sturdy, like a ranger.

Other than that I would say try Necro. A lot of what I like about Ranger is having the pet around (I find that an extra body is great in pve). Eles have pets based on attunement and Necro clearly has plenty of extra bodies (their playstyle is not as active though). Good Luck.

I can’t stand playing as an Elementalist. Beyond the one FotM build there is almost zero variation for PvP. For PvE it’s just boring (in my opinion). I could just never get into it.

I play an unorthodox Necro that uses dagger/warhorn and it’s really, really fun. Not as fun as my Ranger, but a close second for PvP. In PvE I just don’t really find Necro to be very engaging.

[Edit: For the record, I don’t really enjoy the rotational play style, so any profession that has builds that focus on executing the right skills in the right order to maximize your effectiveness are less appealing to me. I like a more fluid play style where you don’t have to perform every single ability at the exact right moment in the exact right order. If it can be done with a macro, I don’t really see the point. I like more fluid game play where you have to choose which ability to use depending on the situation.]

Agadar.4931:

Forzani.2584:

After dabbling with some of the other classes what I have noticed is lack of synergy with Ranger choices. Other classes it seems if you have a plan, everything fits and nothing is wasted. Rangers seem like many choices you make give you something you don’t need.

It’s to a point now that when I experiment with potential builds I choose specific traits for what they do…..not for the build bonuses. IE if I really want Eagles Eye for the LB I take Markmanship to 20 …even though the +20 to Condition Duration is not important to me.

There are numerous examples of that. It seems like whoever developed the Trait tree for the Ranger used a dart board or something.

I concur. I currently have a very tanky build if I may say so myself, which relies on constantly dodging and having regen and protection up. The three traits I want are toughness, healing, and power.

The build I run with to achieve maximum tankiness?

0/10/20/20/20.

Waoh. Whereas every other class has one or two trees solely dedicated to tankiness and healing, I have to go more than halfway in THREE lines and almost halfway in a fourth. It’s absurd. That 100 precision? Useless for my build. The 10% critical damage? Equally. The 200 condition damage? Virtually pointless.

Whoever designed the ranger class either ran out of time or had no idea what he was doing.

Then don’t put points in Skirmishing. You’re gaining very little benefit from Primal Reflexes for the investiture. In addition, putting 20 points into Nature Magic seems like a waste. There are almost no useful traits in that tree. 10 points for Nature’s Bounty is all you need (a case can be made for Strength of Spirit and Nature’s Protection).

Going 30 into Wilderness Survival and Beastmastery will open up several of our best traits. Bark Skin and Empathic Bond are both incredibly awesome traits and it’s a shame we have to pick between the two. Building around either of those traits can result in a pretty fantastic build that will make you incredibly “tanky”. Natural Healing is also really nice, especially in combination with all of the other passive healing Rangers get. What a lot of people don’t know is that the healing from Natural Healing works on your pet and your Ranger.

Even though the majority of Ranger traits and utilities are utter garbage, there are a few gems that make Rangers incredibly fun to play.

RummyTheMad.7290:

At this stage of the game, I’m not quite at the point where I’m going to say that it’s bad design. The game is still relatively young and there is still plenty to learn, so we all may be missing some really amazing stuff that we simply haven’t thought about using yet. Then again, maybe we aren’t…

I don’t think it’s bad design, I just think it’s confusing design. There’s a lot of synergy in there, it’s just hidden under a layer of junk and nonsense.

PearlGore.7419:

So, I love my Ranger despite the clear issues and will continue to use her. But I do want to level at least one other class to 80, problem is I’m having a hell of a time deciding on what class.

As Rangers that love well… Rangers. What other classes have you been able to enjoy most? I have tried all the casters and hate them, I also hated the Guardian. It seems to me that a Warrior might offer work out, I just want something as good at solo PvE as my Ranger.

I’ve played every class pretty extensively in PvP and a little bit in PvE.

For PvP:

• Ranger
• Necromancer
• Engineer
• Warrior
• Guardian
• Mesmer
• Thief
• Elementalist

For PvE:

• Ranger
• Guardian
• Engineer
• Warrior
• Necromancer
• Mesmer
• Thief
• Elementalist

The other classes are all pretty boring after playing Ranger, to be honest.

GRNTiger.8103:

I think there’s an extra point incorrectly labelled under thieves to do with whirling axes being able to be canceled by other skills.

No, that’s correct. When Thieves steal from Warriors they gain an ability called Whirling Axe.

Rannulf.9417:

So would zerker be better for greatsword/longbow ranger or should i run ac for the p/t/v? and what runes you guys think i should use on them?

Longbow and greatsword aren’t even close to the worst weapons in the game. Just remember that there aren’t really any bad Ranger weapons, just bad Ranger players.

I tend to go for survivability over damage. Surviving is one of the things Rangers do incredibly well, so (in my opinion) it’s better to play to your strengths.

I use power, vitality, toughness armor from AC with all Monk runes. I was thinking about switching it up to two Monk, two Dwayna, two Water, but I haven’t crunched the numbers yet to see if that’s even a good idea.

I personally use sword/dagger with fire/hydromancy and axe/warhorn with fire/energy. If were going to run with longbow and greatsword I would use fire on the longbow and either hydromancy or energy on the greatsword.

MeGaZlo.9516:

nldixon.8514:

MeGaZlo.9516:

nldixon.8514:

Dahkeus.8243:

nldixon.8514:

If you haven’t tried using a drake in PvP, maybe you should. I’d say at least 75% of the time people don’t even TRY to avoid the breath attacks because people rarely pay attention to pets.

All of your theorycrafting about why it won’t work will go out the window when you realize how effective it actually is.

I never said it wouldn’t work. I said it won’t work against high level players, which isn’t the majority of the player base.

So high level players have unlimited stun breaks and condition removal, never make mistakes, and are totally infallible?

Or is it just that there are no “high level” Ranger players, so it’s totally impossible that a Ranger can ever outplay a “mid level” or “low level” player? Your argument is ridiculous.

I’ve already stated that it’s not 100% effective, but that when it does work it’s awesome. You can continue to believe whatever you want, but it’s obvious that you haven’t spent much time playing with drake pets in PvP.

Players do not turn aside from drake’s breathing? You’re kidding! I can hardly bring the mob under it. Hits, at best, 20% of all uses. And it’s probably only with QZ O_o

You didn’t read anything in the rest of this thread, did you?

Yep. I did.

Then you’re willfully ignoring everything that was said in this thread. There are plenty of ways to keep players (and mobs) stationary long enough to get the breath to work. Especially on a river drake who has a ranged attack that still does very good damage.

Durzlla.6295:

You guys are using the whirl wrong…. You need to use it either A) with a combo field (an ethereal field + whirling defense = up to 15 stacks of confusion, yup, that skill sucks rolls eyes) it’s reason for being such a long channel is because you reflect ALL projectiles during that time, it used to also reflect skills like the warhorn, but I don’t think it does anymore, needs testing though.

If path I scars worked like the chieftains I would have a very hard time not going axe/axe…. A VERY hard time…

PS: take a warthog with Axe offhand they synergies AMAZINGLY well.

Did they ever fix the combo field with OH axe? Because last time I used it was buggy and didn’t work half the time.

[Edit: Also, are you referring to the ethereal field you can create from foraged items? Or is there some other reason it’s good with a porcine pet?]

Agadar.4931:

…it seems that Anet doesn’t WANT us to kite. They want us to EVADE. Think about that. Instead of running away in an obvious straight line from your opponent, what about dodging right past him? Get those +endurance regen and vigor buffs up, and you’re dodging all over the place.

I completely agree with this part of the post. Rangers have excellent endurance regeneration from several sources. Our weapons have build in evades on them. It does seem pretty obvious that ANet intends for Rangers to be an evasion profession.

With the right pets some professions can be kited, but it’s difficult. Your best bet is to swap to a melee set (greatsword or sword/dagger) and use those evades. While you’re in melee combat with someone, you become rather static (especially with sword/dagger) and consequently your opponent is forced to stand still or stay within a much smaller area, giving your pet plenty of opportunity to actually hit them.

It sounds counterintuitive, but it works.

Agadar.4931:

nldixon.8514:

Agadar.4931:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Agadar.4931:

For as long as sword auto-roots you, it’s essentially useless, and for as long as the greatsword has the damage of a wet towel, that too will remain useless.

If you don’t want to use bows, you’re far better off with axes.

Turn off auto attack , profit.

You shouldn’t have to do that in order to make a weapon viable. It is a clear sign of a bad weapon.

You don’t have to turn off auto-attack to make sword viable. You just have to learn to use evades more efficiently, get your timing down perfectly, and know what to evade and what to eat. Sword is actually incredibly viable once you get the hang of it. It’s probably out best PvP weapon, to be honest.

That being said, sword does need to be improved. Dodge needs to supersede the auto-attack chain.

Basically what you’re telling me is to learn to play in order to make a weapon viable.

Again, that is a clear sign of a bad weapon. A weapon must be viable on its own.

I wasn’t saying “l2p”, I think that sounds pretty condescending. I hate to say it, but that’s the gist of it, though. It takes a lot more time and effort to make the sword a viable weapon. Once you get the hang of it, it’s awesome.

I’m not sure that I agree that a weapon needs to be viable on its own. I like the fact that there are weapons that are easy to use and don’t require much practice to get good with, and that there are weapons that do.

The problem with Ranger weapons is that I feel like most of them do require lots of patience and practice to make them effective. That leads most people to the conclusion that Ranger weapons are bad (and consequently the Ranger profession in general).

I’m not disagreeing with you that sword needs work. It does need work. The easiest fix, in my opinion, is to allow dodging during the auto attack chain. But I don’t think that necessarily makes it a bad weapon. It just makes it a less accessible weapon.

Agadar.4931:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Personally, I think OH Dagger is one of the best compliments to MH axe. It’s 4th skill helps you close the gap to immediately hit a foe with all 5 axes on your 2 skill. The cripple and frozen chains are also great to prevent the foe’s escape.

how does #4 close the gap??? Not sure if I’m correct here but I thought it has nothing special other than it returning back to you. Personally I think axe4 should work like chieftans axe throw, then I might actually consider using it.

DAGGER, not Axe. Off-Hand Axe seems better suited to a MH sword.

I beg to differ. Sword relies on constantly evading and being in the face of the enemy. The whirl makes you stand completely still. Compare this to main hand axe, which is ranged, thus complementing Path of Scars, and due to virtue of being ranged, is more easily forgiven for standing still for a few seconds.

The only time I can see axe OH being preferable to dagger OH is if you know you’re going to be facing a large number of ranged attackers. That might make it viable in W3 for keep attack/defense, but then you’re going to want to be using an axe in your main hand since you’re not going to be in melee combat with anyone except the gate. And trying to bust down a gate/wall or attacking from a wall with melee weapons is an effort in futility.

So, yeah. Axe OH can work with sword, but it’s a better pairing with axe MH. In my opinion (not saying either way is right or wrong).

Agadar.4931:

NaturalPortman.9562:

Agadar.4931:

For as long as sword auto-roots you, it’s essentially useless, and for as long as the greatsword has the damage of a wet towel, that too will remain useless.

If you don’t want to use bows, you’re far better off with axes.

Turn off auto attack , profit.

You shouldn’t have to do that in order to make a weapon viable. It is a clear sign of a bad weapon.

You don’t have to turn off auto-attack to make sword viable. You just have to learn to use evades more efficiently, get your timing down perfectly, and know what to evade and what to eat. Sword is actually incredibly viable once you get the hang of it. It’s probably out best PvP weapon, to be honest.

That being said, sword does need to be improved. Dodge needs to supersede the auto-attack chain.

Panther Chameleon.8465:

Oh, okay that’s how it works. So, you can make a general statement in regards to pet mechanics claiming everything is working as intended and nobody can disagree with you. Then, make a bold statement for “most” of the Ranger players and end it with an insult. That’s really helpful. So, you don’t think a Ranger should be in complete control of his kit?

Nice try at trolling, sir. You obviously didn’t read any of the rest of the thread or you’d know where I stand. You are arguing just for the sake of arguing at this point.

I do think Rangers should be in complete control of their class mechanic, which is why I’ve stated time and time again that pets need improvement, especially F2 functionality.

I don’t, however, think that Rangers should be able to completely disregard their class mechanic just because they don’t want to have a pet. If you don’t want a pet, don’t play Ranger. It’s the class mechanic. That’s the bottom line.

Continue trolling, sir, and have an excellent day!

I’m going to go ahead and be done with this conversation, because most players on the Ranger forums would rather complain about everything the profession doesn’t have instead of looking at the good things we do have.

“Thieves can do this…” or “Warriors are better at…” or “Necros don’t have to…”

It all gets really tiring and very old, very quick. Trying to help other players on the Ranger forums feels like standing up in front of a class of angry 3rd graders.

MeGaZlo.9516:

nldixon.8514:

Dahkeus.8243:

nldixon.8514:

If you haven’t tried using a drake in PvP, maybe you should. I’d say at least 75% of the time people don’t even TRY to avoid the breath attacks because people rarely pay attention to pets.

All of your theorycrafting about why it won’t work will go out the window when you realize how effective it actually is.

I never said it wouldn’t work. I said it won’t work against high level players, which isn’t the majority of the player base.

So high level players have unlimited stun breaks and condition removal, never make mistakes, and are totally infallible?

Or is it just that there are no “high level” Ranger players, so it’s totally impossible that a Ranger can ever outplay a “mid level” or “low level” player? Your argument is ridiculous.

I’ve already stated that it’s not 100% effective, but that when it does work it’s awesome. You can continue to believe whatever you want, but it’s obvious that you haven’t spent much time playing with drake pets in PvP.

Players do not turn aside from drake’s breathing? You’re kidding! I can hardly bring the mob under it. Hits, at best, 20% of all uses. And it’s probably only with QZ O_o

You didn’t read anything in the rest of this thread, did you?

Division.9618:

Peter.9406:

nldixon.8514:

I don’t understand why people purposefully want to nerf themselves by not using a pet.

Second, pets are the Ranger class mechanic. It’s not like the game or any of the written material at any point leads you astray or suggests otherwise, so if you willfully chose the Ranger class knowing that you don’t like playing a pet class… I’m not really sure what say.

It’s like ordering a cheeseburger then complaining that you like everything except the cheese, but you definitely don’t want a hamburger. You want a cheeseburger.

THIS! Lol perfect analogy.

No horrible analogy. Here’s a better one.

It’s like ordering a bacon and jalapeno burger and then complaining about the jalapeno’s because there isn’t just a plain bacon burger on the menu. The worst part is the jalapeno’s are cooked into the patty so you can’t remove them.

Not all people play ranger because they want to be a beastmaster. Some people play it to be able to use nature magic (no druids in this game, so no other alternative). Some people play it to be great snipers and archers (warrior longbow is about AOE support and thief shortbow is about short range AOE and escaping). I personally play it because i like the idea of a speedy skillful swordsman. The warrior feels like a berserker and the guardian feels like a paladin. The ranger feels like a blademaster.

Your analogy caters to what you want the Ranger to be. The official description of a Ranger describes an archer with a pet.

I’ve actually won a couple tournaments in PUGs, so it’s not impossible. You just have to get a little lucky. Winning three games isn’t a crazy accomplishment though and can often be done in a single night.

NaturalPortman.9562:

nldixon.8514:

Just for the record, Path of Scars DOES NOT cause knock down on the return.

It’s still a pretty good off-hand though, and it’s excellent against ranged attackers too stupid to stop shooting you while it’s channeling.

Like I said in previous post, I would actually use axe offhand if it worked alot like chieftans axe throw, would be an amazing skill.

Absolutely. If it did have the knock down on the return it would make it infinitely more attractive for an off-hand option. As it is now it doesn’t really have much appeal versus the warhorn or dagger.

Greatsword has WAY more utility than an axe/axe or sword/axe build, plus it does more or comparable damage to either setup since the greatsword changes.

Just for the record, Path of Scars DOES NOT cause knock down on the return.

It’s still a pretty good off-hand though, and it’s excellent against ranged attackers too stupid to stop shooting you while it’s channeling.

Dahkeus.8243:

nldixon.8514:

If you haven’t tried using a drake in PvP, maybe you should. I’d say at least 75% of the time people don’t even TRY to avoid the breath attacks because people rarely pay attention to pets.

All of your theorycrafting about why it won’t work will go out the window when you realize how effective it actually is.

I never said it wouldn’t work. I said it won’t work against high level players, which isn’t the majority of the player base.

So high level players have unlimited stun breaks and condition removal, never make mistakes, and are totally infallible?

Or is it just that there are no “high level” Ranger players, so it’s totally impossible that a Ranger can ever outplay a “mid level” or “low level” player? Your argument is ridiculous.

I’ve already stated that it’s not 100% effective, but that when it does work it’s awesome. You can continue to believe whatever you want, but it’s obvious that you haven’t spent much time playing with drake pets in PvP.

Pyrial.2917:

I didn’t know ranged abilities didn’t work at close range. Someone go tell staff elementalists they’re hacking.

Bunkers are also about point control, I didn’t know that punishing people for being in a particular area (which traps do) was against the model of bunkering.

This all boils down to what I said previously. They are different bunker builds and they work differently, just because it isn’t the one that you use and play doesn’t make them less effective.

What does an Elementalist have to do with ranged combat on a Ranger?

Traps are next to useless in a “bunker” build for Rangers. The effectiveness of traps is minor unless you trait to improve the traps. If you trait to improve traps, you’re giving up too much survivability. When you give up that survivability it ceases to be a bunker build.

What it boils down to, is that you want to argue on the internet. That’s fine, but I’m not going to play your little game. Condition trap builds ARE less effective. That’s just a fact. Every single point in the Skirmishing line detracts from points in the trait lines that are actually effective in a bunker build.

You’re wrong and that’s okay.

Pyrial.2917:

nldixon.8514:

Lots of misinformation and bad advice in this thread.

If built properly, you don’t want to use traps or condition damage for a “bunker” Ranger. You don’t want to use a ranged weapon at all except for the very beginning of the fight when you use Hunter’s Call and Call of the Wild (there may be a couple of axe auto attacks).

Second, even if you strip all the boons off the Ranger (which are probably only going to be fury, might, and swiftness from CotW), you can’t take off the buffs that you REALLY need to take off in order to make the Ranger less effective.

A lot Rangers aren’t going to play this build because it requires lots of micromanaging, a total shift from the PvE playstyle, and lots of melee combat. It’s effective, but it goes against the play style to which the vast majority of Rangers are accustomed.

I have yet to lose a one on one fight in tPvP or sPvP while holding a point. I can hold off two people for quite a while and sometimes even come out on top (if they’re not very good). If there are three people coming to take the point, that’s fine because the rest of my team can be off doing something useful while they’re trying to take my point.

Wait…let me get this straight. People aren’t playing it the way that you’re playing it so it makes it bad advice?

No, but certain things make a bunker build a bunker build. Inherently those things are high survivability and mobility in a relatively small area. If you’re using ranged weapon, you’re automatically at a disadvantage because by their very nature you want to have space between you and the other person. If the other player is on the point and you’re trying to make space, you’re not on the point, which defies the point of a bunker build.

Second, if you’re building your Ranger around traps and condition damage, you’re putting points into trait lines that aren’t going to increase your survivability. You’re also passing up utilities that increase your survivability for traps, which are less about survival and more about control. Without the tools necessary to survive an attack from two or more players for any amount of time, you’re not a bunker build.

So, yes. Advising someone to attempt to bunker with a trap/condition build made for control and damage is bad advice.

Finally, most of the things that make “bunker” Rangers survivable are abilities that can’t be stolen or stripped by Necromancers or Mesmers. That little bit of misinformation is going to get a lot of Mesmers and Necromancers killed.

It’s not a matter of people playing like me or not playing like me. I could honestly care less. I’m just trying to help spread proper and helpful information.

If you haven’t tried using a drake in PvP, maybe you should. I’d say at least 75% of the time people don’t even TRY to avoid the breath attacks because people rarely pay attention to pets.

All of your theorycrafting about why it won’t work will go out the window when you realize how effective it actually is.

NaturalPortman.9562:

Durzlla.6295:

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

Yup, you know, LB isn’t a 180 degree AoE or anything… and the fact you completely ignore the whole “you can bait them!” thing is kinda sad… you can hit F2 again to cancel it, making them completely WASTE that stun breaker or w/e and then you can launch another one off in a short amount of time, especially if you’re running spider + drake build where you use the immob from spider and then chain it into the drake.

I’ve never played around with the drake. how much dmg does it put out?

A LOT on its special attack. Especially once it starts bouncing around. The rest of its attacks are broken though, so… Yeah.

[Edit: By which I mean it only performs one of its attacks: bite. Chomp and tail swipe don’t work.]

Dahkeus.8243:

Durzlla.6295:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Of course it can be done. Vs good players, not so much.

You know what you can get it off on every time? A bunker, they absolute refuse to leave their point and the drakes breathe can hit the entire point (except graveyard that ones huge!!) meaning you either force them off the point or they eat the whole electrocute.

And what part of immob and stun don’t you get? It doesn’t matter how good you are if you’re a sitting duck!!

Mist form, condition removal, stun break, etc. etc.

There are plenty of counters to this, especially since the drake has a HUUUUUGE wind up. And you don’t have to run far to dodge a drake’s LB, you just casually take two steps to the left and laugh as the pet sits rooted blasting away into nothing.

But yea, if you get a bad player that blows all their cooldowns the first time they get CCed at all, you probably can root them and hit them.

At some point even good players have to use their condition removals and stun breaks. That’s what makes great players great. They know when to use an ability and when to hold on to it.

With quickness up, the breath attack doesn’t really take that long. It sometimes seems excruciatingly slow, but it (usually) goes off in plenty of time to catch someone who’s crippled, rooted, stunned, or chilled.

It doesn’t always work, but if it didn’t require some amount of skill to use, everybody and their brother would be running around with drakes all the time.