Guild Wars 2

I’m coming for you Ren on my Ele I think! I need to either wear a different guild tag or roll another anonymous profession being chased by 5+ mags isn’t fun but sometimes it is though between AON (<3 Convenant) some VR’s, iLL’s, Swag’s, and Rage there are plenty.

Video of the GvG arena

DiogoSilva.7089:

Chasind.3128:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Elementalists will get more build diversity in this patch, not less. Cleansing Water and Elemental Attunement on higher tiers will barely affect current builds.

How will they get more builds?
Looks to be it will still be the old set-up of
0, 10, 0, 30, 30

Moving the traits from Grandmaster to lower tiers instead of higher would actually help imo.

But not many play with the 0-10-0-30-30 bunker build anymore. PvP eles have been using air burst builds, or going with rock solid. PvE eles almost always go with 30 in fire and fresh air or other damage modifiers. Maybe that’s the build used in WvW? I don’t know that, as I don’t play it much.

If anything, the nerfs to other professions might bring the 0-10-0-30-30 d/d build back to pvp.

0/10/0/30/30 is still used by many D/D players in WvW.

Anierna.6918:

In Scenario 1, you successfully avoided all damage. You did this without wasting an extra 10 points in Arcana for EA, and you can do this in ANY atunement, not just water (and it would still work even if water was on CD). In Scenario 2, you put the extra 10 points in Arcana, but you had to waste a CD on water atune just to proc EA for the heal, and even so, it didn’t heal you nearly enough to compensate for the damage you took. You still ended up worse off than in Scenario 1.

THIS is why EA is a crutch; you’d do better learning WHEN to dodge to AVOID damage than you would dodging after the damage has already been done in order to heal yourself by a comparatively small amount. A good PvP’er knows to make every dodge count; even with Renewing Stamina, you don’t have any extra dodges to waste on proc’ing a trait.

Of course using your dodge to avoid damage is always better but you aren’t always aware or see everything in your surrounding and EA’s heal can provide backup.

Scenario you are engaged in a 1v1 with that mesmer. Dodging like you are suppose to a awesome enemy thief is coming and see’s the sparkles flying around. He refuges off in the distance has his signets ready so he can get you with a good 5k CnD, followed by a 8k backstab. You don’t have anything up that EA heal would come in handy there.

Your scenario is sound until you throw another person in the mix which almost always happens in WvW. Unless you go to the windmill it is rare you’re going to be fighting just 1 person or someone doesn’t come along. I personally don’t run Ether renewal or Glyph so EA, Dagger water 5 and healing ripple provide me with burst healing incase I need it, I also don’t run Mist form.

You run S/D so it is different I feel like S/D goes with Ether better than D/D because not doing damage for 3.5 seconds is a long time so you can just take the enemies heal and subtract 3.5 seconds from it’s CD. S/D and D/D are different though I can agree on not taking 30 arcana in a S/D setup I wouldn’t either. In D/D I would always go 30 Arcana because it is basically melee range, so you need more healing since in theory you should be taking more damage than S/D or D/F or S/F ior Staff would. You’re probably taking damage going in to do your own damage, and will probably be taking damage getting out if you have to disengage. There is no option on D/D to pump damage at 900 range you’re either in the mix or not doing anything. S/D can chose to range or not so their I can see not taking 30 arcana. This is all personal preference of course.

Nikkinella.8254:

I don’t think it would be the least bit overpowered considering what other classes are capable of. And what’s wrong with a perma shocking aura? People SHOULD have to think twice about just carelessly attacking us. It still wouldn’t be anywhere near as bad as permastun warrior. Right now, even the best eles are little more than a nuisance to enemies. Not a real threat. The people you try to kill first when you come up against enemies are the warriors and necros, because they’re the biggest threat. Eles are just an afterthough. And its not like they cant catch us after they kill everyone else anyway. They can shrug off the mediocre damage we do in more defensive specs, and if we’re glassy and can hurt them, we’ll die easily if focused on anyway. Ele should go from being a free loot bag to a serious threat that people prioritize killing first.
So no, my suggestions aren’t the least bit OP. They’ll put us on par with other classes.
When have people ever requested to have an ele in their group for anything other than a buffbot in WvW? Or in pve our only use is icebow in AC.

There is only one real threat everyone prioritizes is Necro’s. Priority on warriors is a waste because of endure pain, stability, beserker’s stance and their mobility. Staff Ele’s aren’t looked at as a threat until they use meteor shower into tornado and people are surprised they died in 2 seconds look at combat log and see 8k meteors.

For our roaming group staff ele is important for swiftness(yes a buff) and our CC. D/D isn’t needed or s/d but we also don’t really need mesmer’s besides maybe a veil but everyone knows that trick, maybe a portal? In GvG’s definitely want staff eles, S/D eles are good for strike teams to pick of the backliner’s like other teams Staff eles and squishies. D/D can be used I suppose but I don’t think it’s needed. Just from GvG’s Guardians, Eles, Necro, Warriors are probably the most important classes. In most cases guardians and eles are used for the same thing/role except guardians aren’t ever used for dps that I know of. Its AH all day everyday for serious stuff.

I should have put a WvW focus in there was my mistake to help clarify.

I always looked at Celestial as a way to hit marks for stats you want without going full zerk or full soldiers or clerics. The problem is then you give up more just do do that unless you really care about all the stats I feel like there is always something better in each slot that you can take. I do think the helm is a excellent place to put celestial just because it isn’t a major loss from another gear choice but you gain more stats.

It is really hard to gauge celestial items because everyone weights certain stats higher than others.

It was nerfed because partly because Top sPvP players at the time said that ele was to strong etc. etc. I can dig it up again but in the video when elementalist was brought up as to strong Joh Peters and Chap both seemed surprised.

This is a snippet of what I posted this in the December 10 patch preview discussion

Let us look down memory lane shall we in regards to Elementalist:

First SOTG – http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/b/365009593 Elementalist discussion @ 45:51

Elementalist is first classed discussed. Jon Peter’s seemed to think at that time that ele was fine surprised people thought it was strong. Chap sounds like he would side with how we all feel now about Ele that is a high skill cap so it rewards you. The other players don’t seem to feel the same way influenced by the Players, changes/nerfs to ele happened after that video.

I think looking back at this video it was a l2p issue on the playerbase as a whole and people didn’t know how the ele worked or how to counter it. So ele was nerfed other classes brought up which seemed to be the devs initial intention anyway but for months it was Ele =OP on the forums so they nerfed Ele because players in the SOTG solidified the forums complaints. The better approach would have been to bring the other classes up to the levels that we see now that is what they seemed to want to do going by the video but somewhere it didn’t happen.

April 2013 – The Ele nerf patch!

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/b/365009593 Elementalist @ 34:42

This is the RTL/Mist Form/ Cleansing Water(pvp) nerf patch. Even after the changes Symbolic states that he doesn’t think the Cleansing Water nerf will have much impact on how well Ele’s can deal with conditions. Chap states internally it showed other wise (which we all know is totally correct). If I remember Symbolic plays/played necromancer. Mist form change also hit engineers because they could go tiny mode and use their skills also.

I think it was listening to the players I think pushed them to make changes. The bases of the argument at the beginning of the first video was that Teams would bring 2-3 eles so there has to be a problem with eles.

Jabberwock.9014:

I don’t think anybody can win against stealthy phantasm builds built defensively. They are almost literally impossible to kill 1v1 or even 1v10 if they don’t screw up. If you are built defensively they shouldn’t be able to kill you either though.

^^ This. You can literally walk away from just about every single mesmer build. The ones that are a threat to force you to fight is glassy GS mesmer’s that where able to open up first with ibeserker. Other than that I just ignore them most times. I hopped on my mesmer the other day and with old school phantasm style build. Grabbing both +15% damage modifers full glass with duelist and immediately put him away when I realized people can just ignore me.

Soldier’s provides better effective health and damage reduction by far than Celestial and pre-fury Soldier’s is better.

When you start might stacking and adding fury celestial is better than Soldiers for damage.

Anierna.6918:

There is something very important you didn’t disclose: Putting ANY points in Arcana tanks your damage. Say bye-bye to big numbers. You can justify putting 10 in Arcana for perma-vigor, but beyond that you’re gonna notice a huge difference in your damage output.

If you want boon duration, use 2x waters, 2x monks, 2x travelers. That’s 45% boon duration right there, just from runes. Getting 1% per point in Arcana is an inefficient way of getting boon duration if that’s your goal.

If your goal is to decrease your Atune CD’s, then there is a case to be made for going into Arcana. However, after the Dec 10th patch, that argument will be far weaker. It’ll be better to thank your lucky stars Anet decided to lower the base Atune CD’s, and just put 0 or 10 in Arcana, and the rest in damage modifiers or survivability, depending on what you’re doing.

He asked why people have such low Crit% numbers. I gave him the answer as to why their numbers are so low. Didn’t need to go into a explanation about damage etc. Since that isn’t really what he was asking.

I have played S/D but don’t really like it I know the popular S/D build is 0/30/0/20/20 or 0/30/10/10/20 (I am on the forums alot) he just didn’t ask that question. When I want to range nuke people I use my necro or put a GS on my mesmer, or go put on condi P/D and trololol people with my thief. I prefer mix it up in the middle.

Anierna.6918:

. There are better ways to heal and stack might, and not having it made me a better player. Basically, EA was a crutch, and for many players who use it, it continues to be.

After the Dec 10th patch, I’ll probably go only 10 into Arcana for WvW – and I hope a lot of the 30-Arcana people will too. At the moment, you can make a strong case for 2% reduction per point (though there isn’t any basis for a case in boon duration – use the runes instead), but post-patch when it’s only 1% per point…. it just won’t be worth it. It would be better to learn how to play with less than 30, so you can put those points you just freed up into dmg or survivability.

If we are talking about D/D I would always go 30 in arcana because it is a melee set. When I run staff with my guild and roaming I only have blasting staff 20 in arcana cause I don’t need it 30 arcana. After the patch if I run staff I’ll only go 10 arcana.

If I was using S/D I wouldn’t go 30 arcana because I have trident so I don’t need the EA heal. I disagree that it is a crutch going 30 in arcana. Renewing Stamina is the crutch because that is what lets you dodge so much. Everyone takes it including you. EA is a bi-product of Renewing stamina being up so much that it is OK to use a dodge for healing. I had this discussion with a guildy who also ran S/D and was like I don’t need EA. (Of course it isn’t as important on S/D) it isn’t the crutch or bad players use it. Renewing stamina is the trait you should look at if you want to make that claim not Evasive Arcana.

Thats why I didn’t understand their decision to move elemental attunement to master and keep renewing at adept when renewing stamina is more powerful than elemental attunement IMO.

Seras.5702:

oZii.2864:

Seras.5702:

Wow, I’m new to Ele and I’m surprised to see such low Crit%. With my Engi and Thief it’s much higher (50%-70%) in most builds people theorycraft. Is this because something as to be sacrificed to ensure high enough toughness, vitality, and healing power for survival and that’s crit%?

Well most ele builds take Zephyr’s boon so we all say 30% or 40% but just add 20% to that in most cases we just all assume zephyr’s boon so that is perma fury. If someone states they have 30% crit chance in most cases its safe to assume they have 50% really because they have perma fury.

Ok, follow-up noob question. How do you get perma fury from a trait that only gives 5s of fury? I’m clearly using auras wrong cuz I thought the cooldowns were too long to maintain that kinda fury uptime.

30 points in Arcana trait line = 6.5 secs of fury on aura, The 5 point trait in arcana gives you 2.6 secs of fury(assuming you have 30 points in arcana) when you swap attunements stacks duration. This is for Dagger/Dagger so it is a bit easier to keep it up. Shocking + Frost =13 secs + your swap = 15.6 secs of Fury. If you setup it up with Magnetic grasp leap through you ring of fire or burning speed you get fire aura for more fury.

You won’t keep the fury 100% of the time but it is pretty close if you really want to make sure you have it run a bit of boon duration a additional 15% for 45% total should do it.

Something you will get over time is when you are going for strong attacks you swap attunements before they hit to help land a critcal hit. Like Cast Fire grab and swap attunements right after you press the button.

@Nikkinella while I agree that there are issues with ele your suggestions are a bit OP cause I could grab all of those traits.

Just a quick throw together of what you said. You want elemental attunement inherent a 9 second base recharge on attunement recharge rate and a aura based on the attunement you swap to replacing elemental attunement. You don’t think that sounds remotely OP? Hello fresh air builds perma shocking aura!

Seras.5702:

Wow, I’m new to Ele and I’m surprised to see such low Crit%. With my Engi and Thief it’s much higher (50%-70%) in most builds people theorycraft. Is this because something as to be sacrificed to ensure high enough toughness, vitality, and healing power for survival and that’s crit%?

Well most ele builds take Zephyr’s boon so we all say 30% or 40% but just add 20% to that in most cases we just all assume zephyr’s boon so that is perma fury. If someone states they have 30% crit chance in most cases its safe to assume they have 50% really because they have perma fury.

Anierna.6918:

I don’t see how this is important. Go full DPS and use the Reddit equations to balance power and prec via the correct zerk/assassins combination for your particular build. You can never do enough damage on an ele.

It is more just asking what people’s personal preference is not what is optimal. I know that curry butternut squash soup is better dps for my build but I run lemongrass in WvW because conditions run rampant.

ThiBash.5634:

To me, it’s not so much about the absolute values but more about the relative values. Personally, I take Soldier’s as a mean value between offense and defense. I’d like to do at least average damage, so when I decide to add a defensive item (say, a cleric ring for healing power) I compensate it by an offensive gear item (say, the other ring being berserker).

As for my other stats, I’d like to exchange some more toughness for healing power but that’s currently not an option. All gear with healing power is either defensive or condition damage, so I’m more or less pushed into adding more berserker pieces as well.

But as far as absolute values go, I don’t really have any. Apart from maybe, say, 30% critical chance for my permafury setup.

I also consider soldiers stats as a medium between offense and defense for Ele. I was thinking about replacing my accessories from celestial to another combination but I can’t think of another combo I would want there. I recently changed my amulet to zerker/valk and notice a definite damage difference from my celestial. I like cav rings though I think are good in that spot.

It will be interesting to see what pops up with ascended armor since stats like Pre/Pow/Toughness and cav aren’t available on armor.

I think everyone has a personal preference that they like for their classes. So what are some of you guys personal stat thresholds for stats you value the most? It is all build dependent of course.

This is WvW focused discussion.

Elementalist

1800+ power
17k HP
2.5-2.6k armor in boon build/ 2.7k+ direct damage build
Healing power 700+ in boon duration build/ direct damage doesn’t matter
25% – 30% crit chance prefury

monkeyboy.5324:

not many ppl know raleigh ritchie, especially the remix. Nice music choice my man, and also good video.

Oh thats not my video don’t want to take credit for it.

Signet of Water isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. Looking at signet of water without thinking 30 water/ 30 arcana.

Cleasning flame is burst condi cleanse untraited 40 secs. So basically 3 conditions every 40 seconds. Signet of water will remove more than that in 40 seconds (4). Cleansing flame can be traited to be better than Signet of Water.

Take your suggestion of condition to boon conversion keep it every 10 secs and I would most certainly think about running it. Active needs something though Frost Aura? Actually Frost aura for Signet of Water, Magnetic Aura for Signet of Earth, I do like the active on fire but I think Fire aura would be better, Air shocking aura.

All have 5 sec durations, this makes elemental shielding 10 in earth look juicy and the signet fire aura trait look even better in fire line, and makes powerful auras totally grandmaster worthy.

dreztina.4820:

Fishbones.6914:

and another thing!!!! whats up with our arcane utilities??? arcane wave is trash now…. 30 second CD and it hits for less than lightning whip … so what its a blast finisher? there is a reason cantrips are so popular….. they are just all around fantastic compared to our other options… i used to use arcane wave but now its damage is a joke for a utility slot skill on a 30 second CD

Ya, I dropped it and went back to triple cantrip. Cantrips are mediocre compared to other classes’ utilities, and the rest of our utilities are so pathetic they may as well not even be there.

I agree I was looking at Arcane Skills again and I think they should be reworked. Arcane shield is good but more elemental type of stuff would be better. Leave arcane traits in there but the utilities themselves need to be changed.

Ele utilites as a whole aren’t very good because they invested in conjures, arcane skills, and glyphs to much thinking people would use them. Now it is situation where they are trying to make them better so people will use them.

Ele’s signets are pretty lackluster I think with fire being the best.

Signet of water is good passive but the active is weak, earth passive is good but the active is weak and really only gets used for dragon tooth setups. Air passive is good but the active is weak.

I posted this in another thread but why not take all the signets keep current passives and change actives to aura’s associated with that element. All with 5 sec duration still leave stun break on air. This makes Powerful aura’s truly grandmaster good, the fire aura on signet use trait looks much better, elemental shielding looks much better, and signets looks much better overall and gives Ele’s some really good looking support options that don’t look like any other classes.

I think the glyphs are decent GoEP could get bumped up though on chance to proc.

Beannie.5982:

Yeah i was in Maguuma BL windmill watching and trying out some dueling in my practically full celestial ele with 0 10 0 30 30, felt pretty useless…

Those engineers and thieves own me within 10 secs?

I’m interested in upping my game playing level and go solo roaming with ele, i tried d/d in celestial 0 10 0 30 30, with runes on max boon duration. Somehow couldn’t even make a dent against a warrior and thief combo from iLL (great skills) killing people rejoining the zerg.

Any suggestions fellow eles?

Along with what Frowny suggested (I don’t know his build but I seen xunleashed vids before)

IntigoGW2 has a few videos up which can work with the gear you have if you already have celestial pieces crafted.

http://www.youtube.com/user/IntigoGW2/videos

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhMmkbwx5gjDAkHm4CLiCPUeMTO2A-jEEBYgAYjgkIgUBAJfCiZPKrlhRs6KZlXBVbDT5CV7CWFTIyIGzaeI1G0QyAoPGA-w

My boon duration armor is similar to this setup but I wouldn’t dare run signet of restoration without running lemongrass poultry soup (-40% condition duration). Signet of resto is my favorite heal and I always run it so I always run that food most of the time.

The Game Slayer.7632:

wow, i really did say that, oops on my part. i honestly meant to say that my build can do so much better because my build is not reliant on one trick pony slots like your signet or corrupt boon stuff that can be evaded when you know the animations.

It was pretty funny watching you go to town on that statement though

Successful troll was successful.
(i was toying you around budday)

Corrupt Boon is instant, it has a slight animation but the boon corruption is instant unless you already have invuln frames up prior(mist form) or the necro is blinded it is impossible to avoid.

I will agree that signet of spite can be dodged as long as your not feared.

For WvW something crossed my mind with runes of the elementalist you can get 45% burning duration just from those runes and the new burning fire trait. With an additional 10% with the new toxic sharpening stones if your hybrid setup or a full condi can get 95% just from 10 points in fire, elementalist runes, toxic focusing crystals, and +40% duration food. Thats not bad at all. There is a +15% burn duration and +70% precision food out there too. If they ever fix sigil of smoldering say hello to perma burning eles.

That’s not bad I must say. Even if you aren’t a condition build burning is strong even in a regular damage setup with the might stacking possible.

Kind of disagree with your assessment that Earth isn’t a good trait line when you listed 7 bullet points for it over the 5 from water without even including geomancer’s freedom in your earth assessment.

Didn’t account for synergy with other trait lines. Fire traitline while still lackluster after the update will have more synergy with earth. 30 fresh builds don’t even go deep into water usually. Many go 10 in earth for the +10% damage because thats a boss trait.

I think people should hold some judgement on 30 earth with diamond skin till after patch. The ones that will be able to test it fully right away will most likely be the ones running condition elementalist builds. They can just move points immediately to see what it is like and get max benefit because they are already running the gear for it.

Anti Toxin spray is terrible. I saw a mesmer use it the first day it came and out and I lol’d. Just do the math on it and compare it is literally a terrible heal compared to every other option every class has nobody would take that heal over their other options. Even mesmers who usually have bad condition removal. Why do people get so up in arms over stuff like this? Nobody is running this heal.

Sinnum.2690:

Hi all, I don’t post often but I am glad to see people speaking up about these changes. I usually roll with the punches of patch notes but there are a few things that I would really NOT like to see go through.

1) Moving Elemental Attunement to a Master tier trait really, really sucks. Quite honestly, that trait is very fun and feels like the core of the Elementalist. The trait is already a mandatory pick up for most builds it feels like but moving in to Master tier really hurts build diversity. Please keep it as an adept tier trait or just make it part of switching attunements tbh. It’s too fun of a trait to not have.

2) With Elemental Attunement now being moved to Master tier, it will share that spot with Renewing Vigor. As the profession with the lowest armor and hp, renewing vigor really helped to keep the dodges up to be used for surviving or utility via Evasive Arcana. As a Scepter user, having Vigorous Scepter as an adept solves my problem but my D/D brethren will take a giant hit in survivability while they are in such close range. Perhaps something can be done with Windborne Dagger to increase endurance regeneration as well?

3) Also, please consider keeping Cleansing Wave as an Adept tier trait. It is a very useful skill for removing pesky conditions out in the world like a cripple or poison from a random mob that is keeping you in combat. It is also a good pick up for any build to help a team but doesn’t feel mandatory (similar to Elemental Attunement). Moving in to a master tier would remove the option for builds that want to use their Water attunement as a debuff cleanser instead of a heal burst (15 points in water). I think that’s a bad change and one that limits the jack-of-all-trades capability for Elementalists.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, I hope adding my voice to the conversation helps.

There have been a couple of change. Renewing stamina is staying at adept and elemental attunement is still moving to master tier.

Dee Jay.2460:

Ok so I’ve encountered this build a few times.

It’s basically taking the standard D/D Bunker build with the high mobility, healing and survivability and combining it with a conjured Flame Sword for very high DPS.

It makes them almost like Warriors in a way, except that they have to press buttons to heal.

So what exactly is this build and gear that makes it so incredibly effective? Because I literally could not kill the last Ele I met with this build in WvW while a single Flamesword Whirl would take 40% of my HP.

I don’t know if it is particularly a specific build designed behind FGS. It is probably just FGS with a direct damage setup like normal. The FGS does add 260 power and 180 condition damage. A ele would have to be in full clerics or or something to not do good damage with FGS. Attunement swap still lets you still heal and use Evasive arcana heal. Signet of Resto lets you get some health while you use the skills. Spam auto attack and lightning flash, whirl to cripple/avoid big damage, Fiery Rush at the appropriate time for dat insta-gib.

Edit: Now that I think about it you would have to be in gear with no power on it at all to not do good damage with it.

robocafaz.9017:

magikfox.9658:

[Superior Rune of Maguuma]

(1): +25 Sweg
(2): +10% Forum Infractions
(3): +50 Sweg
(4): When you post on the official forum, gain a random boon.
(5): +90 Sweg
(6): Invite nearby foes to your party on kill.

+1 rofl this is good. Craftable or drop?

I do really like FGS. I think they should just get rid of the charges or timer on conjuers. 1 or the other I understand but not both. I would prefer the time over charges tbh. Picking up the other weapon in the middle of a fight is deadly if it is 1v1 or your outnumbered.

deathTouch.9706:

Or just go with the easy GF-approved fix and slap on some perplex runes.

Or take empowered illusions and save 6-7 gold? 15% illusion damage > Cripple in a power build.

Just Fyi http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Strength the 6th piece bonus doesn’t work. It has been reported several times on the forums. It is also why it is so cheap because people know it doesn’t work. IF it worked it would be one of the best dps rune sets in the game the output is right alongside of ruby orbs.

I have watched this rune for forever waiting for them to fix it.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

I still think the problem is shadow refuge. I have no problem with the short duration stealths of thieves mesmers or engi. The problem is shadow refuge can give up to 15 seconds of stealth. Virtually every single thief in the entire history of gw2 uses shadow refuge. It is a absolute must have utility for any build. Doesn’t that tell you something is overpowered when 100% of people playing the class use that utility. I feel its stronger than any other skill in the game even elites and it only has a 1 min cooldown.

No! Popularity of a utility skill for a profession doesn’t mean it’s overpowered. Every profession has popular utilities. You will have a hard time weeding through mesmers not running decoy, necros rarely don’t run epidemic, eles almost always have 1 cantrip on their bar, Endure pain is probably on almost every warriors bar.

DiogoSilva.7089:

AR will be moved for the sake of Renewing Stamina to stay at adept tier in the meantime. They simply took a trait that is barely used, and moved up a tier not because it deserves that tier, but because they would be destroying build diversity by moving renewing stamina instead.

This…

Adept Tier Arcana looks pretty good now with some good survival traits easier to get. I am not sure how they can make AR better though at least as a master tier.

Across the game I feel like 2 types of traits that are niche are when down and rezing. Those 2 types of traits I am not sure how I feel. I think best would be to put good useful when your not downed and not rezing traits in there.

Make a totally different traitline just for rezzing/downed and move all the traits there so people can pick 1. Call it Desperation Traits and you get to pick 1 or the other.

Nikkinella.8254:

The title is misleading. I was thinking something else entirely.

Rofl so was I Rofl.

If you run cleansing flame you have instant access to burn from any attunement to setup fire grab.

Ok Fat Mesmer from Ill with bolt and twilight. That was ridiculous there should be no reason that a mesmer fights a ele for 20 minutes on 2 different occasions.

Suggestion – For your 20/20/30 prismatic understand build. Drop Crippling Dissipation grab Empowered Illusions for more Deeps. Ele v Mesmer should never last 20 minutes. I do like how when the PUG from burn came you where thirsty to kill me with help chasing from south camp all the way to my spawn had me giggling.

Leuca.5732:

Honestly I think the main problem EA has that makes it worth moving to master tier is the duration of protection and the fact that it’s aoe. These two factors make it numerically very strong in comparison to other adept traits that apply boons. If the protection was short enough to be a significant anti-spike measure and the aoe was reduced/removed, this trait would keep the bulk of its relevance without forcing Elementalists further into Arcana.

You make some good points when I look at protection application across the game the AOE of it does give it a bonus compared to a few other traits. The 5 seconds of it is a bit more than what is available early to other classes. Looking at most traits it looks like 3 seconds is the base there at adept.

I think they should give protection to all aura’s then if you want to share it you trait powerful aura’s and it actually makes powerful aura’s look good at GM. I think this would alleviate the feel to need to grab Elemental attunement at Master for those that don’t want to go deep in Arcana. With the elementalists base stats if they really want to keep it that way I think inherent protection for aura’s would really help open up builds then replace elemental shielding with something else.

MarzAttakz.9608:

ERRR … was formerly “ELEMENTALIST 4 LIFE” am now “ELETISM 4 LIFE”.

Can’t we all be friends and not argue condition vs the usual? (although the discussion is rather interesting)

Just not a fan of hyperbole. You can’t keep up with a class that has easier and earlier access to it when you have to build just to match it. Runes/Sigils are irrelevant because a necro can put on those same runes and sigils and has much better traits to support a condition damage build that is why it will always have the advantage in condition damage. It has easy access to all those conditions before you throw runes/sigil/traits into a comparison.

I have dueled Frowny Clown on my ele and I lost to him I stated that in another post and he runs a similar condition elementalist build to GameSlayer. When he put it out there in his first video I posted that I can see it being viable. I never put down condition elementalist build.

My Mesmer and Thief both have stealth but I wouldn’t make the ridiculous claim that a Mesmer is better at stealth than a Thief because I threw on runes of infiltration.

FrownyClown.8402:

I’m fine with that. Ele has strengths in other areas they don’t.

I am not downing condition elementalist at all just the statement from Game Slayer that ele can put on more conditions than a Necro could dream of which is silly.

The Game Slayer.7632:

You cant throw up random numbers in the air and expect them to stick. Thats like saying a war and his 100% crit dmg will hit me for 20k with 100blades, so obviously, wars are better at anything damage wise since they can 1shot people with hundred blades.

But, wow man, im really not gonna argue with ya. lol.

What lol? You just compared direct damage with condition damage?

News Flash:

Bleeds, Burning, Confusion, Poison do the same damage no mater the class you play if you both have the same condition damage.

Ease of application is what makes engineers and necros better than everyone else at condition pressure.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Terror that is not made up and only necros have this and it does alot of damage.

The Game Slayer.7632:

That’s fine man, you continue to believe that. lol.

It isn’t belief it is fact. There is no way your build can match a necros for condition pressure.

To be exact I have 1469 condition damage on my necro. Your build has 1789 condition damage.

Terror formula is 0.3 * Condition Damage + 4.5 * Level + 2

@ 1469 My terror ticks for 1032 per tick. I have 100% condition duration

Doom is 3 seconds
Reapers Mark is 2
Spectral Wall is 2 seconds.

That is 6192 that is impossible for you to make up on a elementalist (or any class for that matter).

I am not downing the build or condi ele like I said but lets be realistic here.

The Game Slayer.7632:

Well, i disagree to an extent. I’m talking more along the lines of wvw. A full dire geared ele, with d/d, is pretty amazing. I can apply every condition available except for fear using runes/sigils.. give me 3 seconds and ill load you up with more condis than a necro could dream of. and i can reapply them really fast, every 10s.

Now, probably matching a necros output of condis, i also have more healing, much much more mobility, and 20k health with 3k armor. condi eles do exist, and theyre good, dont put them down. if youve done a s/d-f condi ele, youve done it wrong obviously.

There is no way you have ever played a necro and make that statement. It is impossible for a elementalist to match a condition necros output. Engineers and Necro’s are on another level when it comes to condi pressure. Necro’s have a signet with 6 conditions 5 with a base duration of 10 secs and 1 condition that lasts for 5(blind). Every rune or sigil you can put on necro can put on and necro’s condition duration trait line is pretty good and their condition damage line is pretty awesome unlike eles earth and fire lines.

I play both classes though ele is my main I can kill people in less than 10 seconds on my condition necro and that burst is back ready again easily in another 15 seconds.

Not putting condition ele’s down I seen frowny in action but it isn’t even close to a necro’s potential instagib in a 30/20/X/X/X.

I only have 1500 condition damage on my necro and Terror which makes fear do damage is 1k per tick that is pretty huge dps that you don’t have. 3k from Doom, 2k from reaper’s mark, 2k from spectral wall. That is 7k damage from 1 condition thats only with 1500 condition damage.

Leuca.5732:

Apologies; I’m rather used to bb code.

Yes, I am saying nerf it. I agree that it’s too strong, but I also think its function is too core to the Ele itself to be master level. It needs to be toned down while remaining accessible. The Eles that are actually gearing their builds towards support have myriad tools that affect areas besides Elemental Attunement. Eles can already trait to give protection to allies with Auras, and aoe stability with one trait that’s at master tier.

Really? You would rather elemental attunement be nerfed and left at Adept than moved to master and staying the same? Renewing staming is more important than elemental attunement Vigor>every boon from elemental attunement.

Back to you saying it should be toned down. It sounds like you are saying that just to “be right”. My apologies if I am in correct in my assumption but really? 5 secs of protection, swiftness, regen, and 15 secs of might is to strong?

I also don’t think it is master tier because the options at adept are weak therefore it is master by default. Popularity of a trait does not make it to strong or op. You can’t even keep any of the boons up perma besides might even with 100% boon duration because of the GCD.

At adept I would like to hear a reasonable Adept tier Elemental attunement that would make people take it because 5 seconds is pretty borderline. I think the trait is good but it is far from OP or broken or to good it is just the best adept/master choice when you weed through the choices.

I’m pretty sure I don’t have that option on and sometimes I just don’t see it hit.

Tei.1704:

Those nerfs aren’t a big deal at all. What needs a nerf is the cooldown on burst skills. Wow, the aoe 2 second stun will deal less damage? Unfortunately, any aoe stun that can be used every 7 to 10 seconds is still op as hell in a team fight. Earthsaker would still be a great skill if it did zero damage. Damage isn’t why you use the skill in the first place and the damage isn’t what is making warriors too good when used by terrible players. A 10 second base cooldown and the ease of building adrenaline means earthshaker and skull crack can be used effectively by spamming them. Updraft, earthquake and gale are on 40+ second cooldowns. Do you think good eles use those on cooldown without thinking? All cc effects should be things you have to use with some intelligence, but this doesn’t apply to warriors.

The skull crack change is nice in principle, but I’ll have to wait and see. 1/4 of a second is impossible to dodge with reaction. Is doubling the time of impossible going to be enough? It’s a step in the right direction, but Anet is being far too timid in their attempts to nerf things that are clearly too strong and making gameplay uninteresting and unskilled.

You have valid points but the only thing that changed in regards to hammer is being able to move with staggering blow. The rest of the buffs like changes to burst recharge by putting points in discipline and burst mastery are buffs to all warrior weapons. Though not all warrior weapons have great burst skills like Greatsword.

Other than that hammer is almost exactly the same since launch but nobody had a problem with Warrior back then. Pretty much considered the worst class as far as PvP goes along with rangers before people found spirit builds. The other buffs like a dogged march, healing signet, and cleansing ire. The warrior now has had buffs that make hammer stronger because you can’t kite warriors as easily as you use to pre-buffs but hammer really hasn’t changed.

Hammer is very telegraphed and very easy to dodge especially on ele with the vigor uptime. It isn’t like warriors are using auto attacks to bait dodges or using hammer 2. It’s hammer F1, 4, and 5 in some order then weapon swap. I never had a problem with hammer wars on my ele or any of my classes. Mace/Shield was a different story.

I think the Hammer nerfs are actually going to be pretty big but we have to see how it plays out. Axe/Shield + GS was at one time the most popular set. Anet left the total damage on the auto attack (which could keep up with 100 blades dps) but they moved most of the damage to the 3rd attack and that was a good change. This is a raw damage nerf no compensation at least axe kept it’s damage.

DEKeyzToChaos.7381:

oZii.2864:

DEKeyzToChaos.7381:

As a more or less pure PvEer who runs around in full DPS gear all day, it’s been really fun to read this discussion.

Here’s a spreadsheet I’ve been using for some effective power calculations. It’s based off [DnT]‘s basic EP calculator spreadsheet. It makes it pretty easy to compare bloodlust vs. perception or even different weapon/armor/trinket setups given that you’re using the same weapon set. I usually use buildcraft to calculate the attribute numbers that I then plug into this. It’s currently tuned for PvE, but it shouldn’t be hard to change it to more WvW use. I could also make a WvW version if someone tells me what assumptions I should make when putting in multipliers and boons.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApxtWkBqYzjwdDN0RnF6T1djeDU0c0VhWUhDTlEzbHc&usp=sharing

I have seen your spreedsheet before somewhere not sure where I saw it though possibly reddit?

I don’t know, the original spreadsheet isn’t mine. It’s likely that Nike posted this on reddit or got it from reddit and started keeping it up to date, and only recently did I expand it for my own ele-centric purposes.

I actually found how I can increase the dps at a minor loss of toughness. I have a precision/power/toughness ring which in everything I ran comes out ahead of the cavalier ring I have while also getting to the 50% crit chance mark with fury. I totally forgot I had that ring.

DEKeyzToChaos.7381:

As a more or less pure PvEer who runs around in full DPS gear all day, it’s been really fun to read this discussion.

Here’s a spreadsheet I’ve been using for some effective power calculations. It’s based off [DnT]‘s basic EP calculator spreadsheet. It makes it pretty easy to compare bloodlust vs. perception or even different weapon/armor/trinket setups given that you’re using the same weapon set. I usually use buildcraft to calculate the attribute numbers that I then plug into this. It’s currently tuned for PvE, but it shouldn’t be hard to change it to more WvW use. I could also make a WvW version if someone tells me what assumptions I should make when putting in multipliers and boons.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApxtWkBqYzjwdDN0RnF6T1djeDU0c0VhWUhDTlEzbHc&usp=sharing

I have seen your spreedsheet before somewhere not sure where I saw it though possibly reddit?

Looking at it your spreadsheet can work for WvW no problem.

I brought the discussion up because I knew bloodlust was going to be the winner Power is almost always going to be better IF you are forced to chose between the 2 and this is a case where it is clear cut a choice between power and precision.

My problem is that while I know power is better than precision in almost all cases sitting at my current crit chance for this particular build certain skills that do good damage i.e. lightning whip, fire grab, burning speed critical hits are big from a psychological standpoint in a fight. In a strictly numbers without factoring in dodges, damage mitigation utilities, type of enemy etc. Then it is power but that is what makes PvP hard to theorycraft so many variables but I do enjoy to know these things as guidelines.

FrownyClown.8402:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoIGAIPAAAAEFAo8AAAAA-j0xAYrAm9iYCcIrthioxqtx0uBRFLVLFwFLjA-w

maybe something like this? puts you at a solid 50% crit chance.

I am at 45% currently I can just stack bloodlust and put a accuracy on. I will may throw on a zerk amulet though when I get the laurels.

2 celestial daggers would also put me at 50% even.

Nikkinella.8254:

It wouldn’t be op. We’ll just say what warriors say about the fact they can stun you for 4 seconds every 7 seconds. Bring a stunbreaker/stability and L2P! Dodge the obvious red circles on the ground. Meteor is the easiest attack to avoid getting hit with. So yes, a 5 sec knockdown +10k damage is completely reasonable if its ok for warriors with their stunlock BS. I want MS buffed like that, or I want all the stuns warrior can spam reduced.

Stun warrior have been nerfed since sigil of paralyzation has been “fixed” that is why you don’t see alot of warriors with mace/shield + GS at least I haven’t seen many anymore.

Hammer is getting its damage nerfed

Earthshaker. Reduced damage by 20%.
Staggering Blow. Reduced damage by 23%.

Mace

Skull Crack. Increased the cast time from 1/4s to 1/2s. Updated the animation and effects of this skill to be more clear. (same cast time as lightning whip)

Nobody is using mace that I have seen in WvW since it doesn’t give a full 100blades anymore nobody wants to use it (still a great control weapon imo). Hammer damage nerfs are pretty big. People will still use it for the CC but the damage won’t be as scary on somebody wearing almost full Soldiers gear with 20 points in tactics.

So I did some basic theorycrafting on the key skills I mentioned to look at the difference. I pulled the coefficient from Zelyhn’s sticky thread.

I’m a basic theorycrafter so I apologize if I made a mistake somewhere. Any corrections would be welcome This is without factoring in bountiful power.

Formula: Damage done = Weapon damage * Power * skill coefficient * (1 + (critical hit chance * (0.5 + (Critical damage bonus from gear + traits in % / 100%))) / Target’s armor

Using my stats Standard D/D 0/10/0/30/30

Weapon damage : 952.5
Power (base; with gear, without sigils, WITH 10 stacks of might): 2160 no stacks
Skill coefficients: Lightning whip (.7) Burning Speed (2) Fire Grab vs Burning (2.4)
Critical hit chance: 45% (With Fury) no stacks
Critical damage: 50% base + 51% from gear & traits
Target’s armor: 2600

Lightning Whip: Bloodlust 898 / Perception 873 (2.7% difference in favor of bloodlust)

Burning Speed: Bloodlust 2568 / Perception 2493 (2.9% difference in favor of bloodlust)

Fire Grab vs Burning: Bloodlust 3595 / Perception 3491 (2.9% difference in favor of bloodlust)

Pretty much what Sabull estimated.

I do hate not getting crits on these attacks though time to add some more precision to my gear. Stacking bloodlust it is.

Nikkinella.8254:

Even if you spec fully into fire and air, have nothing but offensive traits and all zerker gear, you still wont be as good as a warrior or have anywhere near their survival. Why do they get to be super tanky and STILL deal more damage than us? Show me a vid of an ele hitting something for 80k, then i’ll believe you. I’d like it better if each meteor hit for 10k+ and did knockdown for 5 s.

Oh also, am I the only one who thinks we should get the Unstable Nova skill as a new elite?

Only Warrior and Thief compare in damage but a Warrior putting out big damage is usually glassy. Unsuspecting foe is the saving grace that lets them go tanky and do damage but it is getting moved up a tier. That is a build though not all warriors, I am sure you have come across a rifle warrior and I don’t think I ever seen a Tanky rifle warrior.

It’s like how people use to always refer to Ele by the D/D 0/10/0/30/30 build and when people talked about ele being OP they refered to a 30/30/30/30/30 build that didn’t exist.