Guild Wars 2

If I look at the proposed changes reasonably Blasting staff moved to adept is good, the others moved to adept is good. Ones moved to master make sense because they are buffed. Then we get to windborne dagger moved to adept and renewing and elemental attunement moved to master.

So it looks like something has to move up for something to move down. If we look at windborne dagger objectively most people would agree it isn’t a master tier trait.

The reason it doesn’t look like a master tier trait is because of our access to swiftness. Then you look at how we are built and then you we look at elemental attunement boons that arent swiftness and you see that we need those boons for survivability we already specced into arcana at the cost of valuable stat points to begin with.

You could make the case of soothing disruption provides vigor but that is ok. My whole thing with the move is that boon punishment was introduced already so it isn’t like having boons is “OP”.

What looks better is to move just 1 of the traits to master so the option to still take both is there for those that go 30 points in arcana(at the cost of raw stat points). If someone goes 20 into arcana they do so at the cost of “Raw stat points” so their is a trade off there already.

It sounds biased because a change like this doesn’t affect what I run and can still run exactly like I do now but I don’t see a problem with that. It isn’t necessarily that traits have to be moved down if they aren’t “Master Tier” worthy but those traits at “Master tier” worthy should be buffed so they are attractive.

Basically windborne dagger should move to adept and renewing moved up. I feel renewing stamina is the more powerful of the 2 traits. Elemental attunement is a good trait but I just don’t see it OP. The only real way to abuse it is boon duration runes which means less raw stats you could get from runes.

The strongest boon you get from the trait is protection and you can’t perma protection unless you run 75% – 95% boon duration(WvW) and 10 points in earth with elemental shielding. Which you run at the cost of healing or some other stat you could have specced into plus you could get it stripped. For classic D/D it comes at the cost of damage usually or “Raw Stats” since you went into 30 arcana anyway for the boon duration.

I posted in the thread and it would be a good idea if other did also as they said they have time to make adjustments. Chap responded to Dogsilvia’s post about the changes. So they are reading.

It looks like most elementalist don’t understand the change. The more that post the more visibility it gets to hopefully have it not changed.

I usually can find a silver lining in many changes and keep a open mind but this one I can’t get behind at all.

Both traits are attractive so if someone wants both they must spend 20 trait points currently to get them. There is already a choice them reducing the base on Attunement recharge means many eles won’t go 30 into arcana anyway. So if they go 20 they can get both but I don’t see any changes they have that would make something OP. The traits are good neither is OP.

It will end up with Renewing Stamina>Elemental Attunement and elemental attunement not taken anymore.

JonathanSharp.7094:

•Arcane V – Elemental Attunement. Moved to Master tier.

•Arcane VI – Renewing Stamina. Moved to Master tier.

Move 1 not both. I love D/D and I usually can find reasoning by alot of the balance changes and keep a open mind but this one. I’ll go 30 arcana anyway the traits are good but neither of them make D/D ele’s to powerful based on the other changes to Elementalist mentioned.

I can understand moving 1 so those builds that don’t go all the way in arcana with these changes don’t become to strong but I don’t see it affecting those that go 30 in arcana already that is already 30 points we spend and those are good traits and I don’t see a point in putting them both together.

I usually play “classic d/d” so 30 in arcana for me and I don’t mind 30 in arcana. This change doesn’t destroy the classic build but is nerf to the classic build that has already been nerfed quite a bit.

I see it playing out that moving both to master tier ends up with Renewing stamina>Elemental attunement. With elemental attunement then becoming one of those traits that nobody takes. Because Vigor>The boons you get from elemental attunement.

Elemental attunement I feel can stay at adept with renewing going to master and it is fine.

You guys introduced several gameplay elements to help other classes deal with those classes that are “boon heavy” the vigor from renewing, and boons from elemental can be stripped or the elementalist, guardian, prismatic mesmers, can all be “punished” if they are fighting enemies that have traits that punish or strip those boons so the counter play has been implemented in regards to “classic D/D”.

Yes I love classic 0/10/0/30/30 I have played other builds but these changes to those traits nerfs classic 0/10/0/30/30 as if to “force” movement from running 30 in arcana. I like 30 points in arcana and I don’t see anything being overpowered by moving just 1 trait to master.

Something has to move to adept tier maybe a possible middle ground is to change windborne dagger to something like vigorous scepter. If you really really want to try to give the trait more playtime. I would prefer if only 1 trait was moved but this could possible be a middle ground. While also making it attractive for S/D to get basically vigor with out the boon but still having to choose it over the other traits in arcana. At the same time something like this would basically make it no reason to take renewing stamina.

So best course is to just move 1 of the traits! So that D/D still can get good endurance regen(which can still be stripped). Because Zephyrs focus only applies to Cone of Cold, Drakes Breath and churning earth nothing that anyone can possibly spam.

TL&DR: Don’t move both Renewing Stamina and Elemental Attunement to Master.

The OP does propose a decent suggestion for healing signet in making it so that you need to spec some healing power. Not sure how I feel about it if people did want to still run it using the OP’s suggestion they would need to slot some clerics to get better sustain which means they will have less damage.

I just remember how warrior’s where before in a sustain fight it was like a squishy thief with no stealth run in do a couple of moves run away. Wait for long CD’s to come back up. Don’t want this again.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Warrior-Ele-2-0

I don’t think warrior now is like D/D use to be. I didn’t play it in the “Glory Days”. I never thought it was OP though I use to kill the old D/D’s with my P/D thief though it was a long fight. Never had a problem with them on my mesmer.

Chap said that warrior is getting changes in upcoming patch

JonathanSharp.7094:

Warriors are pretty strong right now, but will be seeing changes in an upcoming patch.

We like how they can be tanky, and we like how they can do DPS if they want. We also like the CC they can bring. We just don’t like them doing it all with 1 build.

I don’t ever remember D/D ele being like this at all, Chap didn’t say it was but other people in the thread are trying to make it sound like it was. I don’t think I have heard a warrior referred to as bunker unless they run banner regen.

I have a warrior also and don’t think it is OP I think unsuspecting foe will be moved or reduced though.

I hope the comparison doesn’t affect changes they will make to Ele’s since it looks like most people in that thread agree that it was overnerfed.

Fuzzion.2504:

You are welcome.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|8.5c.h4.8.1c.h1h.d1b.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1c.71h.1c.71h.1n.71g.1c.71g.1n.b1m.1c.b1m|211.d1b.211.d1b.311.d1b.211.d1b.311.d1b.3v.d1b|0.a1.0.u58c.u56b|15.1|1n.1u.25.1v.29|e

I use to run that build!! but my daggers where knights.

LordByron.8369:

P.S. 10% difference (or more) is not an extremely small boost…

The weapon damage is where the damage is at so it looks like 1.10 and the Normal exotic damage looks like 1.0.

Trueshots.9456:

One other thing, a few suggestions that were made would definitely decrease my bleed duration. Do you guys feel that it is ok to pull back from that max 8 sec bleed duration on sneak attack?

7 secs is ok its what I run on my condi set. You can keep uptime on bleeds good you just want to have some cover condis in there. You wont necro burst condi anyone down though. I find personally spider venom is a must if you want to kill warriors. You will either kill them or force them to disengage because most only run cleansing ire trait to wipe and dont’ have a on hand condition removal most don’t.

If you where to build a support style d/d ele with healing power what would you pick up as far as gear, runes and traits. I’m all set on my dps setup but starting to work on a d/d tanky healing setup.

Right now it is basically 0/10/0/30/30 with full clerics armor but I run runes of guardian to get toughness main stat and a bit more healing power. I run another toughness rune in place of the 6 piece. Trinkets are all clerics, weapons are soldiers. back piece is soldiers.

Strang.8170:

10 earth vs 20 water
passive damage reduction from 100 toughness nets you some amoutn of DR, i really doubt it goes above 10% in which case to get same amount of effective hp out of it as you´d get from extra 100 vitality from water you´d need to take 10 000 damage, if it´s 5% you´ll need to take 20 000 to get the same out of it.

Earths embrace vs water 15 pointer.
Earths embrace has 90s cd, during which you could get propably about 5 water swaps. 1,5k hp each. To get the same effective hp out of it you´d have to take 23k damage during the next 6 seconds of it´s activation to get same amount of effective hp out of the trait.

Basicly it´s whole lot more effective hp and free major trait vs 6s stability that activates at random time in combat with 90s cd and small amount of condition damage

Final shielding vs elemental attunement.
Final shielding will block 3 hits at random point in combat with 90s cd. Elemental attunement gives you about 30-50% uptime protection for whole engagment. I dare say elemental attunement will give more effective hp than final shielding. On top of that it gives you regen, might and swiftness freeing you not to have to take the 25% dagger speed boost. That way you can trait vigor on crits (easily near perma uptime with just the fury from attunements, and therefore strictly better than endurance regen while channeling) Freeing the air trait to take either damage traits or zephyrs boon for added swiftness and fury.

If you where to take a 10 point earth trait for defense wouldn’t elemental shield be even better? I always preferred it over earths embrace anyway.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

RoA looks pathetic. 5 stacks of might? No thanks. -24% condition duration? Naaah. I’m a necro.

Sigil of Torment – can anyone confirm how many stacks?

I like the crystals… but…. probably far more expensive. Not sure really. Anyone else tried them? It’s oil, not a food, so it’ll stack with pizza…

K for science I have tested the sigil and the crystals.

The crystals are Wrench so they would replace your tuning crystals. the +10% shows in your hero panel. If price is no problem it is the go to food over normal crystals for condi’s. They move my necro with runes of traveler to +90% condition duration.

The torment is 1 stack I don’t know the radius have to test again my guess is 300 ish.

Seen people on Reddit saying it willl be OP in WvW because they can’t add. Earth > Torment for damage.

Torment sigils best use is as a cover condition.

shouldn’t be a hard fight. I run 70% condition duration with a scepter, focus and staff. I can keep a warrior perma chilled the whole time(since the base durations are high to begin with on necro chills) as long as zerker stance isn’t up.

If he was super tanky like with warhorn 30 tactics and a banner it can be a long fight but it should be winnable as a necro.

Orikx.9671:

OP is trolling.

Troll.4237:

I play with an xbox controller and thus have to use tab or auto target, its a kitten to target a mesmer so normally I just throw down as many AOEs as possible.

Against a Condition Mesmer you are killing yourself for them. Many of their condition stacks come from killing their clones dieing. They want you to kill their clones while they hide in stealth.

pretty much this you can’t get away from them as well on a necro but my other classes i just walk away from them and their is nothing they can do about it as they chase you firing off slow staff auto attacks rofl. on my necro I have never had a problem with them. Epi the mesmer after a fear and spread to clones as they die. transfer back with staff when needed or heck just give all the condis to the clone if you can’t find the real mesmer.

I have ran that build on my mesmer before it can 1vX well as long as the people you are fighting don’t totally ignore you(which most people dont in wvw) and there isnt a tanky guardian there that wipes all the time and will take you 15 minutes to kill,

Bhima.9518:

Mace isn’t the worry for needing Rock Solid (unless you are talking solo roaming). Its a train of hammer stuns and bumpers put up by coordinated groups. Giving 5 people up to 3 seconds of stability on demand is pretty awesome.

Yea it is pretty awesome for group skirmishes I agree there. For solo roaming which I do alot was where I was referring to mostly. A few of our eles run it when we do more organized havok squad stuff.

enjoyed the cast using this thread bhawb

Delloro.9873:

oZii.2864:

Thieves are a different story but if you know how they work then it’s different. OP states he has a thief so I am willing to bet thief probably gives him no problems at all. Now Reverse those roles imagine you walk up to a thief fighting 3 other people and you join in. You think the thief is going to kill all 4 people with you included?

Yes I do understand how to counter thiefs but I guess I am running a bit to squishy right now because I constantly have to stay defensive. I loose all pressure when I have to heal up because I was too busy doing damage and get hit by backstabs.

I’m gonna toughen up a bit and practice

Just play with it more I think in roaming around you have to be more aware of who your with. If you are with a thief or mesmer then you are going to get most of the focus fire. Your going to get most of the focus fire in alot of small scale fights unless there is a Necro around. Sometimes it is better just to be a distraction kiting around and let the other people pick off enemies with tunnel vision.

ImProVocateur.5189:

Ozii.2864,
Yeah. If you want to experience the full hell that Ele gameplay is, then come to Tarnished Coast. I promise you will get a new perspective. This forum should require that a player verify they are on TC before having the option to have an opinion.

Bima.9518,
Celestial does, in fact, kitten Power and Condition Damage, as opposed to Soldier or Dire. The survivability Celestial gives is more than a smidgeon. Think of Celestial as the average value of all stats. Primary and secondary stats on normal gear greatly exceeds Celestial, but is limited. If a character has all it needs in three stats, then normal gear should be used. If a character needs offense and defense, then Celestial is a good item to equip into a number of slots that best supports the role that character plays.

Below is an example of full Carrion and a Carrion/Celestial mix.

Nice chart.

I just can see a difference in the amount of warriors from higher tiers than when I was on Ehmry Bay. It could just be the more dense population also. I just havent seen much mace/shield which was really the reason I ran rock solid to begin with then perplexity runes came with thief headshot spam.

Delloro.9873:

I have been doing som WvW and sPVP recently but I am about to loose it. I SUCK. At elementalist atleast. I can dominate small groups of 2-4 people with my thief but I don’t want to take the easy way out. I love the elementalist because the diversity and many skills.

Right now I am running D/D (0/10/0/20/30) with very glassy gear but I am tired of dying to cloak and dagger now..

What stats should I invest my 100+ laurels in? Celestial?

If every class had a build that let you 1v4 good players those would be the most popular builds.

You can kill bad players 1v4 as pretty much any class.

Thieves and mesmer’s(I have both) excel against players that have no clue what they are fighting or how a thief or mesmer works. Also alot of Mesmer builds in WvW you can just walk away from tbh outside of a glass cannon builds because they threaten you with their damage same as a thief can cause panic if they catch people by surprise if they don’t know how to deal with the class.

Thieves are a different story but if you know how they work then it’s different. OP states he has a thief so I am willing to bet thief probably gives him no problems at all. Now Reverse those roles imagine you walk up to a thief fighting 3 other people and you join in. You think the thief is going to kill all 4 people with you included?

Well that Izzy stream was a while ago and this was the balance patch and conjures where touched and it wasn’t nerfed.

They really just need to get rid of the Timer on it or get rid of the charges one or the other. I see the point of them having one or the other but not both. Definitely move on cast of FGS I support.

I was running 0/0/20/20/30 with rock solid. I am starting to think the trait is nice but still not sure if it is worth it.

I think the problem with the trait is that any ele worth their weight knows that it is awesome for ether renewal. The problem is that we also know anyone we fight that is worth their weight will interrupt it especially if they have a on demand interrupt. So I think the trait looks a bit more attractive than it actually is. After playing with it so long I would almost say that it could be moved to Adept Tier unless they buff the duration up to 3 second base.

It is convenient for stomping guards not getting knocked back, great for mace/stun warriors. After using it for about 2 months I am not sure it is worth the dps/swiftness uptime trade off. After dueling Frowny Clown last week had me reassess my build one of the main reasons I ran it was because of perplexity runes but it had little affect on our fight. I usually have no problems with any D/D eles but Frowny bested me 2 times our first fight was extremely long.

I moved to 0/10/10/20/30. With elemental attunement I think(just my guess) the idea behind the protection on aura is so that you can essentially melee with heavies like warriors.

I’ll keep playing with it to see if I stick with the trait or move points back to water. Protection on a naked level 80 Elementalist is equal to about 2,742 armor for damage reduction. It is also the same for a naked Warrior if I remember correctly it is 2,740 armor for Warrior. After realizing that I feel it seems to be a pretty powerful adept tier trait though you need the boon duration to really have it up permanently which I currently run @ 75%.

I think though that the real kicker is Signet of Restoration it always comes back to that for me. I feel like it is impossible to run SOR in WvW unless you have 30 in water but SOR lets you mix it up with melee professions but is really weak to condis.

I tried 0/10/10/20/30 with Melandru and running SOR but that experiment didn’t last long for me as it was to bunker. Hoelbrak might be better with the extra damage from the +165 power. I havent seen as many warriors running the Mace/Shield combo since the nerf/fix to sigil of para and it seems to be more Hammer Warriors(since the buff to staggering blow) or Troll warriors with Sword/Warhorn hammer in full soldiers. Could just be my move to Tarnish Coast and this tier of opponents as the reason why I see so many Warriors now.

Just my current thoughts on D/D right now.

I think they could remove the GCD on attunement swap and don’t see it overpowered if they did remove the GCD.

Just using the classes I play for reference. All of them have a way to reduce their main class mechanic and it’s all through a trait line.

Warriors- Discipline

Thief – Trickery

Mesmer – Illusions(trait for instant recharge of shatter skills at 50%)

Elementalist – Arcana

Necromancer – SR (Near to death trait for a cd reduction)

I can see them altering the Arcana or having some trait to reduce the CD. It was done with thieves with the GM sleight of hand trait for an additional 20% reduction. Steals base CD was reduced to 35 secs from 40.

Burst mastery for Warriors was added along with the burst mechanic being tied to discipline for cd redcution.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they did some kind of altering to Arcana for ele’s. With a trait to reduce the CD of attunement swapping or reducing the CD on attunement recharge I doubt they do both for ele though. They have done it before for other classes so I can see them doing it again.

It is something that is missing from elementalist that other classes have had or received in a balance patch.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Agreed. I don’t want band-aids, either; I want solutions.

In some ways, the in-fighter scenario almost works (at least when facing lesser numbers of opponents; larger numbers and it’s just “focus-train-cc-and-die”). Fight is joined, necro tanks through it, is chipping away at the opponent, things are going ok, aaaaaaaaaand…opponent disengages with no means for the necro to pursue.

Even this scenario is not broken. It’s wholly appropriate that other professions can use their escape abilities to disengage from the slower necro. That’s how it’s supposed to work and I accept it.

What is broken is this:

Opponent who just disengaged cleanses and/or heals up. They then return to re-engage the necro. Necro, having used their long cool down skills during the first round and unable to regenerate their life force quickly enough due to a lack of available targets, is now at a disadvantage. Necro, unable to disengage and still waiting on skills to recharge, can do little more than prolong their inevitable defeat.

In-fighters in other games generally have short cool downs on their skills. They don’t have the advantage of bursting with one huge nuke or kiting from a distance. Their compensation is the ability to continuously land jabs, punches, kicks, etc. in rapid succession.

That’s the missing piece. We can’t disengage, we have low mobility, we’re expected to stand there, facetank the hits, and win or die. Ok, fine; I accept all of that. What isn’t working though is – on top of all those disadvantages – our skills have long cool downs. If we’re going to be burdened with the limitations listed above, then the compensation is we need to have more frequent access to our skills so we can keep hitting once a fight is joined.

I’m not even suggesting shorter cast times for our skills. Our long-ish cast times feel appropriate for a ponderous, tanky, juggernaught. Instead, give us shorter cool downs that are base rather than trait-dependent. This way, when an opponent disengages from a fight, we may not be able to chase but we will be ready for when they return.

This is good what about easier ways to generate life force? I think that would go a long way to helping. Something almost like Spectral Armor working almost like beserkers stance from Warriors. It would give you life force without the need to take damage and it would also generate faster when taking damage.

Hmm actually I can see this happening a trait almost like cleansing ire where you gain life force as you take damage. Or possibly a buff to signet of undeath.

I think helping with life force generation where you wouldn’t have to run certain weapons for it would help alot. Buffs to get more life force generation. Like spectral attunement should be more than 5% on spectral use.

FrownyClown.8402:

renss.5764:

today i dueled with a warrior for quite some time and he told me that all classes are almost on par right now but it just feels so much harder on elementalist than on some other classes. so is elementalist underpowered or do i just suck?

The fact you heard this from a warrior gives him no credibility. They can be immune to conditions, condition classes can’t touch them, they have an overpowered trait that gives them 50% crit chance while opponent is stunned, they can run away quickly and do more damage than an elementalist can while having twice as much vitality and more toughness.

The two classes that need buffs are ranger and elementalist. I would also like to see siphon builds for necromancers to become viable in wvw/pvp. Buff those first two, bring down the warrior and you have a much more balanced game.

Unsuspecting foe isn’t overpowered it requires the stun first. Almost every class has ways to boost critical chance that allows them to spec survivability or some other stat. Those are usually some of the most popular builds.

Warriors and ele’s where a pretty even fight before Warrior got buffs.

I am not saying ele doesn’t need some buff love I think it does but if you played a warrior before it got it’s buffs then you would know that Warrior was nothing more than a really squishy thief with no invisibility. No staying power and died or had run because of condition pressure pretty easily.

As far as WvW went you mostly ran Hammer PvT which has pretty much been the same since launch because of unsuspecting foe(nobody complained about the trait back before warriors got a buff it has always been the same since launch).

Or you ran Axe/Shield GS roaming build but where still pretty squishy and you went in did a couple moves had to run out and wait for long cooldowns to come off. If it was heavy condi you had to wait for your signet of stamina to come back up, your endure pain was 90 seconds.

Just putting it out there that Warrior was pretty difficult to do anything with beside zerging or PvE. It was ok in roaming but as soon as it was 1v2 you had no staying power if endure pain was on cooldown.

If you look at Avliss earlier videos (popular warrior youtube guy) alot of his fights where winnable 1v2 at most 1v3’s. It was alot of running away disengage waiting for healing surge to come up. That is how warrior use to be.

The real problem alot of people have with warrior is Mace/Shield stun locking. If warriors didn’t have that set I don’t think many people would call warrior overpowered. Then it would just be they are tanky with easily telegraphed moves.

What are we talking about?

PvE, WvW, sPvP? Alot of the things people are bringing up against the elementalist in here has to do with WvW or sPvP and it looks like much of those points revolve around 1v1 fights.

You don’t have to play ADD style that really isn’t the case with ele it most applies to dagger/dagger, scepter/dagger, staff is hardly a extremely fast swapping setup.

It depends really what we are talking about though. As far as PvE goes unless something changed then a Lightning Hammer ele can put out more dps. Lightning Hammer builds are wanted for hardcore PvE groups. Most people in PvE don’t care to much what you play in PvE alot of times people prefer to not have a thief in party cause it is assumed the thief will die alot and slow everything down.

Ele was my first class when the game launched I got it to 43 and stopped playing it and leveled a mesmer to 80 first. I then leveled a Thief, then a warrior, got my Ele to 80 finally then leveled a necro to 80.

Elementalist ended up becoming my favorite class and mesmer is actually the class I have I play the least but use him for PvE alot because I have map completion on him etc.

FrownyClown.8402:

Here I have complied a list of cheese

1. Swiss
2. Cheddar
3. Condition Mesmer
4. Provolone
5. P/D thief
6. White American
7. Colby Jack
8. Every brand of Warrior
9. D/P Thief
10. Pepper Jack

Lol this is really good!

You forgot Perplexity runes, Necromancers, Regen Rangers, Perplexity engineers.

Bhawb hit it on the head.

If you want the mobile condition class you play Engineer

I save this quote from Chap it applies to every argument of Class X has Y so Class Z should also have Y.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Current-state-of-the-meta/page/9#post2474136

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hope this makes sense.

Oh, also, the reason we can’t give Necro’s too much disengage has to do with the point of “purity of purpose”.

In this game, we want to allow classes the ability to deal with all situations but in different ways. But, if we give all classes all TOOLS (which is a different thing), then players get confused as to which classes fill which roles, and in what way they fill those roles

Example: In PvP, the Necro and Engi both vie for the position of condition pressure. The engineer has more physical alternatives, the Necro has more boon/condition manipulation, the Engi has more escapability, and the Necro is a little squishier. If we gave the Necro too much mobility or escapability, then all of a sudden their “tools” start to line up exactly. If this is the case, one of them will simply be better than the other, as far as efficacy goes, and thus, one will push the other out of the meta for that “role” on the team. This class would then be the “apex” predator for that role. So, in order to prevent this, we try to make it so that the classes don’t have all their tools overlap perfectly. This means you have to say (following our example), “Well, if we take a Necro, we get more condies, but a squishy body that can’t disengage…..but if we take Engi, we lose some DPS and control (depending on utils), but we get someone who can stand up to a spike better”.

Make sense? If we just gave the escape to Necro’s, then all of a sudden, the Necro is just the clear choice. Not all decisions come down to a clean break like this, but this is the type of thing we’re trying to do when we “deny” some classes certain tools.

This is the same reason that Red doesn’t get interrupts in Magic, the reason that Zergs, normally, have much more mobility than Protoss (since Toss are usually stronger unit-by-unit), and why Karthus has no escapes. By denying tools, you create choices for the players. We sometimes do a poor job of this, sorry. But overall, we try to make it so that all classes have choices, and teams have choices in which classes they bring.

-Chap from China

Brando.1374:

30/20/0/0/20 is a pretty squishy and in WvW you need to be able to survive the hammer trains without running away from your group. Also dumbfire will proc on a random target not the one you select most of the time.

in WvW I think you should focus on AOE condi application with your skills and use epidemic if you want to get burning on targets.

Below are my stats for WvW which I think are enough to survive and deal out a decent amount of dmg. (SS was taken in Lions Arch)

Your build is great if you want to be tanky. It just won’t kill as fast as anyone with a condition build with 30 points in spite. You are are tanky but have worse life force generation than anyone with points in SR. I am not saying your build is bad because I know its not I have played it.

People can disengage from your build. That is what people say when it comes to dhuumfire. What it does is punish people for making a mistake if they stick around to long. Will also give a cover condition. Not just because you have the burns but you also have +30% condition duration than your build.

People have played without dhuumfire I have too. You can tell the difference when taking someone down. So the question is between your build and putting those points into spite. Is tanky condition vs quick kill condi. There is nothing wrong with having both. In good size battles you would hold up well. In roaming you would hold up well but more people would be able to disengage and reset with your build.

They really are 2 different builds that both happen to use condition damage.

A 30/20/20 build with the same gear setup but running runes of speed would still out dps your build on a single target all while having around 480 less condition damage but the same armor and close to the same hp -350 HP points.

I run Earth on my scepter and hydromancy on my staff. Hydro is just defensive and helps keep good chill uptime if I happen to be in melee range. I don’t feel forced to get into melee range to get more dps. I always liked hydromancy and battle for weapon swap sigils over earth.

Stx.4857:

The part that makes terror build OP is just the combination of dire gear + access to burning, bleeding, torment, and poison all while fear is ticking. I personally think that burning should be removed, and we should have another way to apply torment.

I see dire gear brought up alot when talking about terrormancer or P/D thief also. I was running a hidden killer build on my thief for about 2 days and the softest target are always terrormancers I would always average 8k+ backstabs on terror necromancers.

I actually never ran a hidden killer build usually went 0/20/30/20 2.6k armor is squishy! Mathematically we know dire will survive longer than rabid but it isn’t that much difference between the 2 in a terror build. Dire gear helps my P/D thief out much more than by necro since 30 points always go into the toughness tree.

Easy when hitting all of spider venom or spider venom + steal with 70-80% condition duration. I run it alot because of warriors and usually with a condi thief running P/D when you steal and apply the poison then it gets covered by the other conditions so it is almost always the last condition sitting on someone.

FrownyClown.8402:

Not sure what my build has to do with this…suspicious.

Just using it as an example pointing out that the picture from the warrior is 2.7k attack and 1.7k healing power since you get more than 2.7k attack in full clerics, which leads me to believe its a condition build with apothecary. Your build would be the closest comparable build for elementalist using D/D. Not talking bad about anybody’s build though just putting the screenshot in perspective.

Fortus.6175:

47% crit chance without fury, which will make it 67%, “For Great Justice”, also shrug it off, all with 3k healings, then look at 29k hp, and 3.1k toughness, that guy will niether get bursted nor killed by conditions given the cleansings. Top that with probably 700-800 per second healing from healing signet with his healing power, best mobility in the game (GS) , swiftness on elite which has an attrociously low CD for the long lasting effects it gets. What do you get? D/D ele on steroids, and then some more. Not to forget the high coefficient damage of most warrior skills, the fact he has 2.7 attack power and can disengage at any given time (not that will ever need it). He does enough damage believe me, if anything, attrtion war will win it for him/.

Im sorry but if you can achieve that amount of things at the same time with any ele that doesnt mean giving up 1 or 2 things for the sake of achieving something similar, let us know, because right now that build out do any ele build in just about anything.

Look at the Picture he has 2.7k attack power(which is very low if your talking direct damage power build) and is buffed at the time which means he has around 1600 power AFTER he gets a buff which means his actual power is lower than that. So this is a killing machine we are talking about here? My guess this is like apothecary with some rampagers thrown in somewhere. Probably Sword/Sword. Bow or something.

You get more than 2.7k attack if you where in full clerics gear without even taking a food buff or putting any points in power. So something similar to this? Sure Frowny Clown has posted alot of videos of his condition build in apothecary gear.

Condition warriors are fun to fight I just never had a problem with them on any of my classes. Not my cup of tea though I would always run power on my warrior. It is far from a D/D ele on steroids as you put it.

Yea Mel is cool I have his boon calc bookmarked and do enjoy his little video snippets. Usually the Voip convos have me laughing.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

That give them more stealth on black powder..
What did necro’s get to counter it?

Or better yet, anyone found a viable build with lifesteal (not an MM or wells) yet?

Counter a 40 second blast finisher utility that’s obvious use is going to be combine with black power? It doesn’t change how you fight them just mark up the red circle as per usual.

Andross.5183:

Don’t forget the unholy amounts of damage warriors can inflict. The warrior is totally overpowered while eles lack in their main area: damage. What the ele lacks in health, is not being compensated with damage. Instead eles are being forced to use artificial tools such as conjured weapons to try and compete. The design of this class went wrong on so many levels, that nowadays only masochists still play it.

But that warrior with its 1.7k healing isn’t going to do any damage. It will be a distraction like a tanky guardian but won’t kill anyone that isnt afk. The Hammer is the best weapon for a non-dps warrior but if you don’t have that OMG damage and are just getting by on unsuspecting foe trait+earthshaker, staggering blow, backbreaker you are just a distraction not really scary as a warrior.

I would guess he probably is 0/0/30/30/10 or 0/0/20/30/20 either way he has to have 30 points in tactics at the minimum. Which means he gave up some good traits for shouts(not saying the alternatives are bad). If he has no unsuspecting foe trait then he is most definitely just a distraction and anyone could just walk away.

Not putting down him playing warrior I have one also its my second favorite class after ele. Just putting those numbers in context cause those numbers don’t come with insane damage at all.

Brando.1374:

the popularity of Neco’s will drop since all the bad necro’s will finally realize they are bad and reroll so less necro’s running around = less people complaining about them.

also instead of removing that trait. why not make necro’s choose….make terror (pre nurf) and dumbfire a grandmaster trait in curses.

I think the Honeymoon of people rolling necro’s because of dhuumfire is over. The FOTM rollers moved to Warriors. It is the most complained about class now I think.

I think what this trait needs is a a video with it being used before people hop on it hardcore. I don’t think people will buy it till they see it for some odd reason o.O

Reveaux.5720:

I have been running (trolling) with this build for months in hopes that A-net would buff this build accidentally and make it overpowered. Seeing as ele will probably not be buffed for a few more months, im basically saying “screw it” and posting it for other people to enjoy.

That being said, the meta(what is considered to be the best) is so jacked up and so crazy that ele really hasn’t been usable in top tier pvp play for quite some time. I am not advertising this build to be some secret meta build because it is not with the current state of PvP. However, this build is fun to play

I bolded all the points people made as counter arguments to his build that he already addressed. Lmao the OP wasn’t even long and some of you guys jumped all over it when he already stated it is for FUN. lmao

It depends on how you like to play. Nothing in the game is mandatory people just say that.

You take traits because you like them and feel they will help your build. If you like traits in Arcana take traits in Arcana. Simple

Evasive arcana as a Grandmaster trait(looked at objectively forgetting about D/D spec etc) is a good trait. I think it could be at Master or Grandmaster tier as I put it on par with deceptive evasion (mesmer clone on dodge) in terms of usefulness.

So you take the trait if you like it and you think it fits your builds purpose. There is no right or wrong here as some people are trying to make it sound as if your bad if you take or don’t take the trait. I have tried every trait so try them all if you don’t feel you need 30 Arcana then don’t run 30 arcana. It’s not like respeccing is expensive and there is the mist for testing.

deathTouch.9706:

One thing that really surprised me though was the performance of GF in SoS BL. In one instance, Niim and I were in the JP together and engaged a hammer war and guard from GF by the vault. The 2v2 went for awhile since we were hammer war/guard also. Then another guard and another hammer war from different TC clans joined the fight. We managed to focus down the GF war 2v4 and finish off the rest in a timely manner. I wrote it off to just some off-play by GF since I’ve fought them in the past and know they usually have decent players.

But then something else strange happened. Most of my guild buddies logged off early for the night but I found 4 more randoms to run with from different guilds I’ve never heard of before, probably PvE guilds. Some of them were not guilded, and one of them was an uplevel too. Anyway we met a roaming group of 3-4 GF + 2 from another clan that I hadn’t heard of and, as a pug group with an uplevel, we managed to just streamroll this GF party in like 20 seconds flat. They came back 3-4 more times and just getting mowed down before giving up. I think it was an ele, glassy char hammer war and norn hammer war from GF and a D/P thief and staff mesmer from this other guild.

Did GF start mass recruiting from LA or run with PvE gear last night or something? I don’t really understand how a pug group was allowed to just steamroll through an organized GF party.

Sounds a bit odd. The jumping puzzle is odd. I only know of 1 GF member that is a master at JP’s or goes there and he plays mesmer or thief most times.

I don’t think (not 100% sure) we have any Charr anythings in the guild at all or at least not any character that is played much. I didn’t play last night cause dat Queue so it wasn’t any of my characters.

Avigrus.2871:

I would like it removed, so people will stop calling for nerfs and also so that they can focus on fixing other areas of the class.

People need to realise that not everyone is a condispam necro.

Wish we could go back to pre-dhuumfire patch and start again.

Dhuumfire really has nothing to do many complaints about necro alot of it is more ignorance. Many people think all necro’s are condis because alot of necro attacks have some kind of condi modifier on it and deathshroud has condis regardless of the build.

People will always call for nerfs regardless.

That turn around CnD Backstab on the when your at low hp is probably the best thing I have seen on any GW2 video so far. That was boss

BlackBeard.2873:

While I agree the trait is rather lackluster (perhaps have it cure cripple/chill/immob on attune = boss), attacking someone who is very helpful won’t get you anywhere.

We have a winner!!! Best suggestion it’s attractive helps with some conditions for those that don’t have 20 in earth or are deep in water.

Popular 0/10/0/30/30 would think about taking it possible over zephyr’s boon. Not going deep into water would feel less punishing.

Win/Win!

Einlanzer.1627:

The culprit is mostly Venomous Aura, which is easily an overpowered trait when considering what the baseline is and how it affects it. What they need to do is balance Venoms around not having Venomous Aura, then have Venomous Aura weaken them in some way while spreading them to the party.

I would advocate something like increasing the number of attacks the Venom is active by 1 on each Venom, then having Venomous Aura reduce them by 1 when spread to other folks.

However, all durations stacking has been a bit of an indirect buff to Venoms, so that should help some.

Yea I agree they should look at the venoms without VA then rebalance from their. I kind of think they have the fear that it would take the best non stealth support thief has if they scrapped the trait all together. I think the trait can stay even if you do something with the baseline venoms to make them more attractive.

I still don’t know if that would really do it. Venoms suffer from the same issue that conjures for elementalists have(though those are probably worse) in theory they seem good but then when you see the other utility skills you give up its like you would like to have them but its just not better overall than your other options.

It seems kind of odd to do but I think the only real hope for venoms(or any other class utilites that aren’t appealing at all) is to put stun breakers on them or some ability to use it defensively.

Across the classes I am most familiar with the most common utilities that are taken are ones that can be used offensively and defensively(PvP/WvW).

Across most builds those are the most common utilities and most popular ones.

Rennoko.5731:

oZii.2864:

This build is terrible and I didn’t read the OP at all! Shots Fired

Video or it didn’t happen! I hope we get mags in gold league

Mag locked Gold League last night.

And #magswag

Fear my Celestial stats.

Nice GF moved to TC so we will be seeing you around my friend! Hmm Celestial stats? Expect in game PM’s for the details

I like Dhuumfire also it does offer the dps to kill much faster though you can kill slower if you like without it.

Torment replacing Dhumfire isn’t bad I don’t think it would change people complaining about it if it was Torment instead of burning. If it was replaced it would probably be more than 1 stack maybe 4-5 stacks and it would equal the same dps or close to what burning does anyway.

I don’t PvE with my Necro(use my mesmer for that) so I can’t really comment on that aspect. Just from a WvW/PvP perspective.

This build is terrible and I didn’t read the OP at all! Shots Fired

Video or it didn’t happen! I hope we get mags in gold league

All the UI changes get thumbs up from me. More options is always a good thing.

Good:

Elementalist:

Staff Changes very good like those alot.

Thief:

Body shot change, larcenous strike change

Warrior:

Healing shout change and lung capacity moved down a tier.

Bad:

Necromancer:

Blood Magic changes did really nothing. The math has been done and spreadsheets done on how the change was insignificant to the point that it is almost a no change. The Transfusion change is good for helping teammates the life siphon changes really don’t do anything to make them attractive or make Necromancers even think about grabbing a different set of gear/amulet. People might play with it a bit to test it out and be disappointed.

For all classes if your trying to make trait lines more attractive look at what the current trait lines that are popular and the traits that are popular, then try to make changes that would people at least think about moving points somewhere else. (but not nerfing an already good trait to force people to abandon it)

I was hoping the blood magic changes would open up the option of going into blood magic where I would be more tanky outside of death shroud but obviously be weaker when I am in it since I would have moved 20 points from Soul Reaping to Blood magic. So there is a trade off a choice.

Elementalist:

One with Air should be 2 secs I don’t really think 2 seconds or 2.5 seconds on that trait would have been unbalanced. It would have made it more attractive. Like I stated if you look at the already popular traits and lines make it so that the choice is a difficult one because the choices are so good. Right now I can’t really see anyone taking that trait over any others in Air.

I personally don’t have any points in Air for my D/D build but if the trait was really good I would move 10 of my points from earth to Air for it but I would be giving something up.

Missing:

Was hoping there would be more balance or trait changes/fixes for unpopular/used traits and trait lines that don’t really get used much. Fire magic for elementalist really needs some love like really.

Larcenous change made the fight a bit more even.

I still am not sure why stability is the first boon stripped. I don’t think you can avoid it. I have to do some more research on it though but I believe it is always the first boon removed.

Straegen.2938:

oZii.2864:

2.5k armor is squishy very squishy.

Any light or medium class is probably going to top out around 2.5k armor and that assumes they dedicate one of their stats to toughness which many do not. Squishy is not defined by toughness as any condi class will tell you. Some builds that focus around vit walk around with 30k HP and 2k toughness… nothing squishy about that.

2k toughness is different than 2.5k armor and should put you around 3k armor now I wouldn’t call 3k armor squishy at all.

If you had 30k hp and 2k toughness you are most definitely tanky. 2.5k on the other hand is squishy. A warrior with 2.5k armor is squishy for warrior standards which was what I was pointing out.