Guild Wars 2

FrownyClown.8402:

I don’t like duels cuz they all Condi mesmers and then they go ch ange their build and rematch. I’ve dueled with ds and its funny how easy it is to win

<3 I could go on a rant about dueling builds. You said it though.

Your full Zerker ele does 2k damage with how many trait points invested in air or fire? Thats alot for probably only 10-20 points invested in critical chance line. Imagine 30 fire 20 air which would be part of the goal to get scepter, focus, and dagger users to spec into for pvp because nobody goes into fire except staff users for pvp.

This person has points in power I think and crit chance

https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/126585/gw172.jpg

4.1k it isn’t a uplevel he hit with that. His build is in the where’s the damage thread. That is the potential damage of LF why I think 20secs is to low for that possible damage output.

I dont know I just think LF + Burning speed every 16 seconds is pretty strong and pretty easy mode. I think 30 seconds is reasonable 24 traited..

Arcane shield suggestion 60 seconds block all attacks for 3 seconds explodes as it does now. Traited it become 48 which I think is reasonable for how much damage it does when it explodes. I like your suggestion also though.

Lightning flash is fine – 20s is to low for how much damage it does. It does alot of damage on crit damage builds for 20s to be justified imo. It would basically become arcane wave at 20 secs. Think Lightning flash burning speed combo’s every 20 seconds? That would be pretty powerful and counter play would be be difficult for enemies. You could do it every 15 seconds traited for cantrips with this suggestion.

Your mist form suggestion is ok I think. I just say reduce the cd you have to think about the traits also. With your suggestion the condis stop doing damage but if I trait 30 water with soothing disruption your suggestion doesn’t matter. Once I attune to water while mist formed and dodge roll while mist formed. I say leave as is just reduce cd.

Cleansing fire – NO there is already condition removal on weapon sets as is. Cleansing fire is fine like it is now. It is a offensive and defensive cantrip the cd is fine. Removing all conditions doesn’t warrant a 60 second cd. Nobody would take cleansing fire ever again.

cheshirefox.7026:

arcane 5pnt trait

This works for me what you have in mind for 15 point arcane to replace lingering elements?

This is what I see as a suggestion to help all elementalist.

• Protection on Aura inherent this would be active defense and reward timing your aura uses. Leave the base duration of elemental shielding just make protection on aura inherent all the time. Obviously a replacement trait would have to be put in to replace elemental shielding.

• Reduce cooldown on Arcane shield, Armor of earth.
• Arcane Shield 60 second base (traited 48)
• Armor of Earth 60 second base (traited 48)

• Dagger Mainhand
• Rock barrier or something similar. My suggestion is when you magnetic leap rocks come out of the ground as you leap toward your opponent remove hurl from dagger main hand version. This doesn’t give the player much control over when they can get the barrier but it does make using leap better. Right now it is better just to immobilize with grasp and not leap at all since ele is to squishy. Obvious counter play to this is enemy dodging the magnetic grasp. Leave unblockable part on the grasp

• Conversion into Vitality Trait
• A trait in earth or fire that converts 7% of x into Vitality. I would like to see something like this at master tier Fire and move burning fire trait down to adept. Now I am 20 points into fire for condition removal and vitality and both GM fire traits start to look interesting depending on the weapon set I am using.

• Signet Passives are fine Change signet actives
• Earth stability/stun break on active remove immobilize
• Signet of Water active all healing effectiveness increased by 20% for 30 seconds
• Signet of Fire I think is fine I can’t really think of a better active that fits with ele and fire.

• With a signet of earth change dragon’s tooth would need to be looked at since earth is really just used for that one ability which means dragon’s tooth should be looked at.

• Arcane precision
• Can we please get a good 25 point trait in arcana. People take 30 arcana anyway I understand that but that is to random and doesn’t really impact anything. Upping the proc chance would be something.

DiogoSilva.7089:

One of our major problems was base attunement cooldowns outside of arcana. That was fixed in the last patch. Good. It was a first step in the right direction.

Two other major problems remain for us. Base survivability and auto-attacks. The former is obvious. The later is tricky, because I think auto-attacks should be nerfed across the game. However, it’s not like arc lightning, lightning whip and fireball are breaking the ele, right? Making our other auto-attacks at a similar power level to those three would be great.

Agree actually I would say ele auto attacks are reasonable they just need to be a bit more effective or a reason to use them. Dragon’s claw should be projectile finisher chance, vapor blade projectile finisher chance, earth range extended to 600.

Dragon’s Claw reduce down to 2 projectiles divide damage of all 3 claws into 2 lessen cone arc.

Also scepter’s auto attack in fire.

KazNaka.4718:

Kyskythyn.6471:

KazNaka.4718:

My question is: Why should only warrior has “the big hits”? Why is there a certain favoritism towards the warrior to land the big melee hits? Any other classes out there takes just as much risk being melee, regardless of their different defense mechanisms. Why are they not on par with the warrior’s DPS output??

20k churning earths and fire grabs not good enough for you? :/

and what’s the cd on that? All the warrior has to do is keep auto-attacking to catch up and get ahead in DPS.

elementalist, at the current state, is too gimmicky in order to achieve the same level of DPS that a warrior can dish out. And you can forget that DPS if you try to be a little more survivable.

Is the elementalist to gimmicky or is the warrior to straight forward and easy maybe even mindless.

The elementalist is engaging it’s not gimmicky if you have to think setting up combo’s and combo fields something the game was based on in the first place. Pressing auto attack to dps is boring straight foward spreadsheet gameplay.

Why even play the game at all if you want it to be laid out for you without even thinking.

Also the warrior is not king of dps regardless of how easy it is for the warrior to dps that doesn’t make it top notch. I don’t know where you get this from. Go on GW2guru and check the thread on dps specs for PvE and warrior is not top ranking the math is there to back it up also.

The difference in dps for max dps builds for all the classes isn’t even that far off from each other you paint the picture that Warrior is by far and away #1 when it is not. Also what you are asking for is homogenization which we don’t need.

If every class did every aspect just as good as each other what would be the point? If a ele had it easy mode for dps you wouldn’t even need water, or earth attunement just give eles fire attunement and air for dps. Give ele weapon swaps and press 3 buttons to win. That is SO boring.

Instead what you have is classes are able to do everything reasonably but some excel at certain things.

If we are being specific about dps Ele isn’t melee even using daggers if you aren’t abusing Ele’s range advantage because it definitely has one then you should. It isn’t even very hard and doesn’t require much thought to abuse Eles range on daggers.

This is about really all was spoken

Tyler_chapman:

ele will likely better gettin some love come the next balance update

he mentioned in chat.

He said he is currently running 0/30/20/15/5 D/D ele tzephyrs boon, zephyrs focus, tempest defense, elemental shielding, rock solid, vital striking with soldier amulet zerk jewel

With 6/6 Rune of Fire.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2

Elementalist was a hot topic in the Questions thread to prepare for the stream see what the devs have to say. I am sure it will come up.

KazNaka.4718:

oZii.2864:

KazNaka.4718:

I completely agree with the OP. At melee range our damage sucks. Why does it have to be only one class—the warrior—who excels at melee range? I thought the premise of this game was: there’s no healer, no tank, no dps, and you can play any class you want. So shouldn’t it be balanced around that instead of giving one class all the melee dps power?

ThiBash.5634:

What he wants is a warrior that looks like an elementalist. The ele has active defenses rather than higher stats. If he likes that playstyle then he must accept the lower base stats that come with them. You can shake as much as you like, but the comparison made in the post is just one of those ‘look how awesome the warrior is and you are not’ posts that I’m done shaking my head at. You want warrior effectiveness? Then go play a warrior and stop trying to tell us we’re doing everything wrong here.

The elementalist has a different form of defense than the warrior, who also has plenty of defenses. The warrior has access to shield/sword blocks, ww atk dodges (high mobility), and bursting to regain endurance. If anything, the elementalist’s active defenses requires more skill to use than the warrior’s form of defenses. Yet, skillful play is not rewarded with any DPS.

You have to be a new warrior.

Warrior has always been able to good great damage, and it actually did more damage before. The reason warrior is so good now is Heaing Signet that is the only reason.

Comparisons to warriors is silly vs elementalist because the healing signet is what allows warriors to now face tank damage to land their big hits. They always had the big hits though.

That’s why I find these conversation silly because people that bring up warriors have to be people that rolled one recently or never played it much before healing signet. Prior to the healing signet buff Warriors had much easier access to their damage modifiers so they did more damage before. Now they lost some of that damage but got sustain. So these warrior comparisons should be more about their defensive abilities being better than a ele not about damage. If I could face tank and had short cooldowns on hard hitting attacks my ele would be a warrior.

You are waay off-base. I am not a new warrior. I have played warrior since launch. In fact, I have all 8 professions maxed to lv80 with zerker gear, sholar’s runes, and dual bloodlust sigils. I have run Arah more times than I can even begin to count. I have solo’ed Lupicus with a warrior, thief, guardian, elementalist, ranger, and Mesmer. This is where I’m drawing my comparisons from: the PvE dungeon aspect.

It has nothing to do with healing signet. Healing signet alone will not let a warrior “face-tank” anything. You have to dodge, ww atk, burst, block, etc. My question is: Why should only warrior has “the big hits”? Why is there a certain favoritism towards the warrior to land the big melee hits? Any other classes out there takes just as much risk being melee, regardless of their different defense mechanisms. Why are they not on par with the warrior’s DPS output??

My applogies this is a PvP/WvW focused thread it has been stated by others that Elementalist out dps warriors in PvE. The OP isn’t concerned with PvE though so I am not speaking on PvE aspects as I don’t play PvE much. This is strickly WvW/PvP damage discussion my apologies if I came off wrong.

From my understanding Ele is top dps class in the game for PvE just from my little bit of reading on the subject with LH or FGS setups.

KazNaka.4718:

Lightning whip one of the best auto-attack in the game? Are you kidding me? The damage you get out of lightning whip doesn’t compare at all with the damage of a warrior’s axe or greatsword.

No I’m not kidding I said one of the best. Yes lightning whip is one of the best auto – attacks in the game. The skill coefficient is the same as the first 2 swings of greatsword of .7 with greatswords 3rd strike being .9 but still activates slower than lightning whip and still has shorter range than lightning whip. Axe’s first strike is the same coefficient as lightning whip with the 1.5 seconds activation for the last 2 hits the last hits of axe are 1.4 x2 and 1.5 for the final hit.

All the damage from axe auto attack was backloaded IT use to be great now it is hard to get the last 2 hits on anyone moving that has a pulse. Before you could pressure with axe auto attack because the damage was front loaded so you didn’t want to get hit by auto attack or eviscerate double edge sword that can force dodges. You put out better dps before with axe by only using the auto attack than taking the time to eviscerate. Which is why many warriors back then said there was no reason to spend adreanline (when berserkers power and heigntened focus where adept traits).

MarzAttakz.9608:

Putting it that way oZii does make sense, regarding our auto-attacks which we never really use outside of perhaps lightning whip, I’d like to see some attack chains added to them and the damage upped a little (within reason of course).

Personally I’d like a reason to stay in an attunement slightly longer, instead of spamming 2-5 because they’re the only skills with decent damage and then switching.

Looking at our class mechanics at 20 point investment, defensively Elemental Attunement is our go to (generally speaking) and Lingering Elements is a bonus.

What if Lingering Elements became a class mechanic with 15 Arcana becoming Persistent Elements which extends Lingering Elements duration to the same duration as our attunement swap and expands the attunement bonus to include our 10/15 (20/25 too ?) point trait buffs. Obviously the idea needs some fine tuning.

I just can’t get on board that their is no damage on ele because it is. The issue here is survivability to apply that damage in a PvP setting. Warriors have easy survivability options to go with their sustain.

Lets give ele warrior base stats make a build then ask yourself seriously do you think you would have damage problems.

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|8.5n.h2.8.5n.0.d13.0.d14|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.71m.1g.71m.1n.71m.1g.71m.1n.71m.1g.71m|2t.d1d.2v.d14.3v.d17.2v.d1d.2t.0.2v.d13|p00.f0.k00.0.a5|6f.1|1n.1u.1v.1s.28|e

Power 2311 (no might stacks) 2611(easy 10 stacks of might)
35% chance to crit (no fury) 55% crit chance with fury (via zephyr’s boon)
83 critical damage
Heavy class modified Armor = 3066 (3186 while attuned to earth)
Heavy class modified Health = 19182

With all the time 15% damage modifier
25% as long as they are burning (why we take burning precision here)
35% when you attune to fire. All extremely easy and likely things to happen.

So is the problem really damage? I in all honestly don’t see damage as a problem at all. This would probably be THE dps build eles would run in PvP with possibly changes to take fresh air. We didn’t even take a DPS focused rune set like Ogre, Scholar+divinity, Divinity, Hoelbrak, Eagle.

Could you then see yourself playing this and reasonably asking for a damage buff? So is damage really the problem for ele? Or is it really survivability/defenses?

What I see there is a ele that would blow through pretty much every class in the game and struggle with possibly no class.

Armed with ether renewal that high amount of HP, condi cleanse on my weapon, stability on earth or earth’s embrace. I am sure if we had stats like that in our builds we run now we would expect QQ and nerfs coming our way.

STRanger.5120:

I can say only one thing regarding this matter.

The day when I abandon my Ele will be the day I leave the whole game. I have similar fun only when playing my Engineer, but he simply just can’t replace my Elementalist.

Agree my other classes get boring quickly. I like them all but they don’t keep me engaged like ele they are to simple.

I am interested in trying a guardian out but I don’t think it would hold me like ele because it is simple. Warrior is my second favorite mostly because it has a big variety of weapons. Thief is fun for trolling. Mesmer is fun for trolling. Necro is fun when I want to kill people in 3 seconds from 900+ range or put them into a large enough HP deficit that I auto win.

Let us see where we could get good risk vs reward for better damage.

We will use the ever popular D/D

Fire Grab hits for not on fire damage all the time.

Lighting whip auto attack is one of the best in the game so no change there.

RTL damage boost?

Does Burning speed really need need a damage boost?

Ring of fire really need a damage boost?

Drake breath really need a damage boost?

Cone of cold?

The only skills I see to make the case for more damage on D/D is earth auto attack, maybe vapor blade but it has vulnerability on it and 1 auto can put 2 stacks on.

Lightning touch could definitely use some love but weakness is really strong and should be utilized if possible.

So Fire Grab remove burning stipulation, buff earth auto, lightning touch and dragon claw. Everything else does pretty good damage imo.

We use Scepter which is burst damage, contrary to what many people think arc lighting can put good pressure on someone and it is a auto attack. Lightning strike hits pretty good damage on short CD with is instant with range.

So my only issues on scepter are – fire auto attack, landing dragon tooth, water 2, dust devil could use increase cast time but thats not a spell used for damage.

So I can see the issues but I don’t think ele damage is really that bad when you look at your hard hitters, and the fact that you most don’t have to look for filler from auto attacks.

MarzAttakz.9608:

Yet he was able to put that video together running close to full berserker, healing surge, one cleanse, two stun breakers and an offensive utility.

Sure, they traded some damage reduction for ludicrous sustain, what did we get as compensation when our sustain and mobility were nerfed?

4 month old regen warrior video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj5FL6tdmnA
How many mistakes does he make vs 3 (granted not too good) players and still survives to make the video?

He pulled it off against players that aren’t very skilled. If that was truly as good as it looked in that video then warriors would have never needed buffs to begin with. What we get as compensation isn’t really the point of the conversation. This is about damage my point is that warriors always had damage they had it reduced some and gained crazy sustain.

The op is about damage mobility is one of the 100 other RTL threads running around. In WvW ele sustain was nerfed because you can’t use mist form and ether together anymore other wise it hasn’t changed in WvW.

In your video he can make those mistakes because of healing signet. That is what makes the warrior good now. The damage was always there. People bring up the warriors damage but its worse now than it was. So why bring up warriors damage when trying to make the case about ele damage when the damage gap is closer now then previously. The sustain and survivability is the real issue with ele not damage.

KazNaka.4718:

I completely agree with the OP. At melee range our damage sucks. Why does it have to be only one class—the warrior—who excels at melee range? I thought the premise of this game was: there’s no healer, no tank, no dps, and you can play any class you want. So shouldn’t it be balanced around that instead of giving one class all the melee dps power?

ThiBash.5634:

What he wants is a warrior that looks like an elementalist. The ele has active defenses rather than higher stats. If he likes that playstyle then he must accept the lower base stats that come with them. You can shake as much as you like, but the comparison made in the post is just one of those ‘look how awesome the warrior is and you are not’ posts that I’m done shaking my head at. You want warrior effectiveness? Then go play a warrior and stop trying to tell us we’re doing everything wrong here.

The elementalist has a different form of defense than the warrior, who also has plenty of defenses. The warrior has access to shield/sword blocks, ww atk dodges (high mobility), and bursting to regain endurance. If anything, the elementalist’s active defenses requires more skill to use than the warrior’s form of defenses. Yet, skillful play is not rewarded with any DPS.

You have to be a new warrior.

Warrior has always been able to good great damage, and it actually did more damage before. The reason warrior is so good now is Heaing Signet that is the only reason.

Comparisons to warriors is silly vs elementalist because the healing signet is what allows warriors to now face tank damage to land their big hits. They always had the big hits though.

That’s why I find these conversation silly because people that bring up warriors have to be people that rolled one recently or never played it much before healing signet. Prior to the healing signet buff Warriors had much easier access to their damage modifiers so they did more damage before. Now they lost some of that damage but got sustain. So these warrior comparisons should be more about their defensive abilities being better than a ele not about damage. If I could face tank and had short cooldowns on hard hitting attacks my ele would be a warrior.

Go back look at videos of warriors prior to access to 392 hps base healing signet and adrenal health scaling with healing power. Watch how long the awesome warrior could stay in a fight if endure pain wasn’t up.

This is old warrior great damage no sustain. Didn’t matter that it hit like a truck if it could stay in a fight longer enough to land any of it. This is montage so these are all victories but look at his health fighting more than 1 person. This is what almost all warriors use to run before. Now give that the new healing signet and buffed adrenal health scaling. Replace axe with mace because axe kind of got nerfed. Tada the warrior you see today. Thats why no warrior really runs healing surge anymore because signet is soooo good. Before everyone ran Surge or mending.

This is the old warrior that pretty much most classes saw as free kills. What changed? Healing signet so sustain changed damage was nerfed.

FrownyClown.8402:

I tried a fresh air dd in pvp today. The damage was fun. I only lost to necros hiding in their ds. Anyone notice a buff to how long they can stay in it

It was buffed last patch

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vital_Persistence it use to be 25%. So necro’s can idle inside of DS a bit longer.

Taldren.7523:

Do all the math you like, I just performed it in the real world (as real as a virtual MMO world can be) and under ideal conditions it hit a real target it hit for 6k.

I did enjoy all the extra hoops to jump through you threw in there.

So nows its:
1. Target is below 33% health.
2. You are within 600 units.
3. The target is knocked down … so they didn’t have stability or a stun break.
4. You don’t have weakness on you.
5. You have full stacks of bloodlust.
6. You have full borderland bloodlust.
7. The target is full zerker with zero points in any toughness line.

Why not add that they have 25 stacks of vulnerability and you have full guard killer bonus too?

You aren’t fighting robots every class has hoops to jump through for damage.

Warrior – 0/20/20/0/30 pre-unsuspecting foe nerf Mace/Shield + GS easy mode.

1. Stun foe
2. Swap to GS 100 blades.
3. Pressure by facetanking with healing signet. Force dodge rolls
4. Press F1 Swap to GS 100 blades

Rinse and repeat it was easy mode. Against any class without good stability access is was extremely easy mode. Damage is so scary stun cds so short you would just win without thinking to much. Then you come across a guardian or another warrior and the fight lasted much much longer because of the stability that both classes have.

The 1 and only reason a warrior requires less effort to do more damage is the sustain that healing signet gives, higher armor, combined with adrenal health, and the hp pool.

Before that buff a warrior was “forced” to go glassy because you couldn’t stay in the fight long enough. So a warrior was essentially a thief with no stealth and long cooldowns. It always had the damage but it couldn’t stay in the fight long enough to do the damage. That is why it was bottom of the sPvP list for needed classes ranger was higher than warrior.

These are old threads for warrior

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/I-love-being-a-child-class/first

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/warrior-skills-traits-not-on-par-with-others/first#post1668659

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Warrior-This-class-is-already-dead/first

Should look familiar to alot of what is seen on this and many other class forums. It’s a total 180 from where it was and how people viewed the class as free kills. The damage was higher then than it was now. It required more effort to land it then than now.

Healing signet > effort

As a elementalist main: Suvivability

• Is it possible to give main hand dagger something to help defensively similar to how Scepter has Rock Barrier?

• My suggestion would be Rock Barrier activates on Dagger 3 magnetic leap. So you at least have incentive to leap into a melee enemy, aura leap finisher is not incentive enough to leap into anyone else melee.

See if we can get some questions in the linked thread to get answered on the stream. If anyone has anything they want to ask them about Elementalist etc.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Ready-Up-Ep-2-Friday-at-12PM-PST/first#post3394143

Taldren.7523:

oZii.2864:

I don’t play my mesmer much anymore because like a elementalist a mesmer is also similar to has a bit of everything. It is geared more towards offense but when you try to make a support build with mesmer it isn’t even close to what a ele can do especially for the group.

Um, have you tried Mantra mesmer? Throwing out 3k AE heals every 3 seconds is sort of nice … on top of the AE Condition removal and AE Stability. With runes that apply group boons on heal it even gets better as you can activate MoRecovery every 10s and recharge it before the next 10s ICD comes up. I usually recharge them in stealth to the frustration of my enemies.

Yea I tried mantra heals and those are nice. The condition removal is decent for group support but I don’t think better than ele. Shattered conditions was buffed but they have to be in range of the shatter so it helps the melee’s out and no real control over it like rain. Mesmer support is ok I feel but it definitely isn’t in my opinion up to ele or guardian level.

ThiBash.5634:

Taldren, I think I have found the point at which our communication fails.

Your point of view is that, if a profession has more complex gameplay and lower defense, and they are more effective, that should be noticable in the damage. Whereas I’m stemming from the assumption that I don’t mind the extra work for the same damage if we also get good healing, support and cc options.

Basically, I think it comes down to you preferring extra damage instead, while I value the extra support/healing/combo fields more. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Basically, what I’m saying is: you get something, it’s just not damage.

This is exactly why I like Ele the best over my other classes. When you try to turn your other classes into something besides damage it just seems like you want something from another class.

I made my necro because I spent a ton of gold trying to get a awesome condition build for my mesmer again after the confusion nerf. I tried to make a awesome thief condition build spending alot of money. Both have decent condition builds but they can’t nuke you like a necro and they don’t pose the same threat as a necro or engi when it comes to conditions. Then I found myself trying to get chill into the condition builds and neither of them have good chill application.

I don’t play my mesmer much anymore because like a elementalist a mesmer is also similar to has a bit of everything. It is geared more towards offense but when you try to make a support build with mesmer it isn’t even close to what a ele can do especially for the group.

I made my warrior for direct damage I would never run a condition build on my warrior rofl. A condition warrior has to work much harder to kill someone with conditions than a necro. A condition warrior also is more pigeonholed into what traits to run than a necro. This is basically the same thing that is said in the OP about ele and damage.

Engi seems more condition based than Ele to me. I never was attracted to engi playstyle because I have a necro and you can’t get better conditions than that and I have a thief I can run P/D condi. I know neither is a Engi but I would only go Engi if I wanted to go condition heavy again but I made a necro instead.

I have limited knowledge on Engi though the mobile ones always seem to be pistol shield Engis. Power Engineer’s don’t often seem mobile to me and appear to be extremely all in for power builds with a much harder time to escape. Then there is the troll engi condi bunker build I seen that doesn’t really kill anything is mobile but doesn’t die either.

Anierna.6918:

oZii.2864:

Ele can’t out dps a warrior

Just a minor point; in PvE, Ele does higher dmg than War. I expected you to know this, as well as exactly how an Ele achieves it, but if you don’t, the link’s in my sig.

Now that my guide’s done, I’m looking for another project. I could get started on a War vs Ele dmg comparison in PvE to tell you exactly how much more dmg an Ele does than a War, if you’re interested.

Yea I know in PvE ele does more damage this was more PvP/WvW focused topic.

Taldren.7523:

Your wrong, Elementalist has the same damage output as other classes with the highest amount of risk. So in essence the class is all risk with no reward other than the high you get after going balls out against another player to beat them. Then again, you could have done the same thing with any other class with half the required energy.

I don’t mind the Ele being fragile, but where the hell is the reward for the risk inherent to the class? And no, I don’t count being mediocre at everything as a reward.

My necro hits mutliple targets for 8k (in a line) with every lifeblast … my ele I can be above the 90% health cap and still not break 6k with a dragon tooth if the target would bother to stand still long enough for it to hit.

Well you kind of prove his point because you bring up a 1 skill and how awesome it is doing alot of damage. Now you switched to Necromancer so the conversation can now go around in circles because you brought another class in the ring. You didn’t bring up warrior damage you jumped all the way to a power necro in deathshroud!! You are just stating your opinion about ele damage vs whichever of the other 7 professions best suits your argument at the time.

That is pretty much what ThiBash was saying.

So might aswell get it out of the way.

Ele can’t condi like a necro
Ele can’t condi like a engi
Ele can’t bunker like a guardian
Ele can’t bunker like a ranger
Ele can’t out dps a warrior
Ele can’t run around in circles letting elementals kill people like a mesmer with phantasms can.
Ele doesn’t have mobility like a thief or burst like a thief.

Its all basically whining about ele because you have to press more buttons to get the same result. Elementalist press more buttons for everything that is kind of the point. Does that require more effort to try to achieve the same? Sure technically if you have to press 5 buttons to kill someone instead of just pressing 2 that is technically more effort. That is also obvious when you pick up the class.

It’s like you are arguing a No Duh topic.

I agree with ThiBash here I have a warrior and it’s apples to oranges. Really all the classes are apples to oranges people just like to compare alot because certain things are similar.

Warrior is my second favorite class mostly because of the amount of weapons it has and I had my warrior before healing signet buff etc.

Warrior has it’s own problems and isn’t perfect it just has a few good builds. People talk about warrior mobility but that is tied to GS or Sword mainhand. Hambow warriors aren’t mobile. Axe isn’t mobile, mace isn’t mobile.

In a PvP setting Greatsword isn’t a self sufficient weapon for damage. It’s terrible for damage because you can’t setup the damage on it’s own and you need a mace off-set, hammer, bullscharge + frenzy combo. Greatsword is the most popular weapon set for warriors but for damage I would take D/D ele over it any day.

Warrior is a good profession but it isn’t perfect. The damage is there for warrior it always has been actually warriors did more damage when berseker’s power and heightened focus where adept. Now warrior can just face tank with healing signet forcing the opponent to blow dodges so they can land their big skills.

ThiBash.5634:

oZii.2864:

Soldier = Defensive

…

Celestial = Want something but don’t want full offense or full defense.

Why do you consider Soldier defensive rather than balanced? Because to me, it having Power as major and 2 defensive stats as minor made it feel like balanced gear. I used that assumption to compare celestial to it (being the other balanced stats) and found that their dps was roughly similar for my ele. It seemed to make sense but I take it you still find it more defensive because it has 2 defensive stats and 1 offensive?

I consider it defensive gear because sentinel is #1 for tanky gear and soldier is #2. You could make the case that clerics is #2 but that fits more for ele or guardian. Every other class builds for max tankiness with either sentinel or soldiers.

On the two extremes for max offense you would go berserker’s for max defense you would go sentinel. Then if I wanted hit the middle ground the gear that comes to my mind is Knights gear.

XinsaX.1238:

Hi there! I’m relative new with this game and I’d played with Warrior and Archer, but I’d created an Ele and it’s a lot more complicated class.
I’m reading GWGuru and there are severals builds using Scepter, saying that Staff generate less damage and other ones that staff are better.

Can someone help me with this? I’m looking for an Ele build that generates good damage.

Purpose? sPvP, WvW, PvE.

For PvE check the stickies at the top by Zelyhn and Neko.

For sPvP/WvW builds there are a few to choose from.

Taldren.7523:

My Roaming Build and my Group Build

Builds created so I can swap back and forth without needing to go to the bank or trainer.

Problem identified Traveler Runes aren’t great DPS runes neither is divinity they are great for critical damage. You wan’t better damage go eagle, orbs, strength, scholar, ogre, rune of ranger.

Traveler runes are taken for critical damage, the 6th piece, or the boon duration. They are not a dps rune set.

Sounds like really low power.

Celestial gear is a complex issue. It is probably the most talked about armor on Reddit. Alot of math and analysis has been brought up on it. People are curious about it but it is really hard to put your finger on it. This is how I personally view the following gear excluding condition damage gear.

Soldier = Defensive
Sentinel = Defensive
Cleric = Defensive
Cavalier = Defensive

Berserker = Offensive
Knights = Offensive
Valkyrie = Offensive
Assassin = Offensive

Magi = Odd combo I never used
Celestial = Want something but don’t want full offense or full defense.

Fishbones.6914:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kauuTPx2TfM

here is a video of duels in OS from tonight. i wish more people would have been there but this was all of them

Nice video

Both are good to roam honestly.

Fuzzion.2504:

There were a lot of ninja fixes to ele signets that were not mentioned. Enjoy

Oh? Please Share!!

Edit to thit. It’s odd it is giving more than 5 crit damage but it isn’t consistent 10 I just checked again and it indicates +7 crit damage. So the rune isn’t reliable for the 6th piece currently.

using lightning whip in the mist

Power is 258

(weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

(258) * 2089 * (.7) / (2600) = 145 normal damage

145 * 1.85 = 268 critical hit damage

Under fury with rune of rage 6 piece you SHOULD get. 176

Instead I get 145 * 1.90 = 282

So the 6th piece on rune of rage is giving out 10 critical damage while under fury.

Zenjii.6819:

did they fix runes of rage too?

Hmm interesting I’ll go hop in game and check it out.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Thank you for the test Ozii. I’ll probably start running this rune for a specific s/d build.

np time to go test rune of rage though everything I seen on rage is as far as dps it isn’t that good at all. The kicker I think for rage is in sPvP/WvW environments it’s a bit different and could be viable especially for ele’s since it could help relieve dependence on zephyr’s perhaps.

D/F just feels awkward for me as soon as someone gets on top of you. I probably need to practice with it more it’s just weird for me. I like s/d though I would think S/F as a good set but the same thing happens it just is weird when someone is on top of me.

I had to dig this one back up. Again as my mind started to turn as usual. This is only in regards to Armor not trinkets.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1kigzm/a_comparison_of_defensive_gear_in_build_making/

Celestial vs Knights

Knights gives more toughness but as many know when you hit a certain mark vitality is better to put some points in but you want a combination of both. Celestial gives both stats in equal amount while knights gives much more toughness. Soldiers is great defensive gear because it gives good amounts of toughness and vitality.

So does the healing power and vitality from celestial allow you to survive better than knights?

I’m thinking that it does IF your heals run their course, regen isn’t over written by someone elses weak regen, you aren’t poisoned. The healing will help counteract damage conditions you may not be able to cleanse.

As far as damage Knights is better than celestial out of the gate no buffs. Factor in Might stacks and fury knights is still better but not by much. So does the condition damage on celestial make up the difference? If you have access to high damaging condition like burns then yes IF the burn can run its course and be maintained until you can reapply burn again best if you can keep 100% uptime on it. Bleeds help as a stop gap until you can reapply burning again.

Condition damage, like healing power, and like precision needs stat investment to move the damage or healing up or down. 1 stat point of power = 1 point of power where as healing is coefficient dependent on skill used. Precision requires 21 stat points.

Bleed damage increase investment is expensive like precision. Burning scales much better than bleeding. Both dependent on the condition not being wiped.

I just gave some stats to get a idea how they compared. I posted on reddit that the rune is working now also. DnT Nike did some calculations for dps warrior builds said that he thinks Strength beats orbs for pretty the same reasons you said. Thanks

Tarkan.5609:

Hey
somewhere i read that the usefulness of healing power above 500 is reduced – is that right? because at the moment i’m running a build with 800 something healing power and dont know if i should change it

No it isn’t reduced it all depends on the coefficient of the heal your looking at. While ele has some of the best scaling heals in the game. I would sit around 500. I believe Fuzzion stated he has a build with around 800 healing power that still does good damage. For D/D I don’t spec healing power on purpose I put it at the bottom of the list with condition damage I just happen to have 500 healing power.

P/D thief condi builds suffer from the same issue that P/U condi mesmers suffer from people can ignore you. For Roaming it can work in WvW it actually got buffed with the initiative changes I will say that since it can stand being outside of stealth better than burst can.

P/D has been around a long time it was really popular like last year November thanks to Youtuber Wildbill but it isn’t used in serious team ques. Dueling its good, WvW roaming good.

Molch.2078:

oZii.2864:

Could you do Strength vs Ruby Orbs? I know nothing beats Scholars and probably never will.

Post your Power/prec/critdmg and average buffs, and I could calculate it for your build.

2000 power No Might, 50 crit chance, 73 crit damage, Sigil of force, 10% bonus with stone splinters.

Is that correct 2 scholar, 2 noble, 2 citadel?

Vatt.4695:

Sixth bonus of this rune doesn’t apply root on enemies. Other bonus are correct.

I think the protection runes like earth aren’t working to increase protection duration but I am not sure. I wish Josh would chime in on what was fixed. Rune of strength was fixed last patch but wasn’t in the notes. The notes previously they started to put in when runes where fixed.

The wiki doesn’t state that it is bugged for the 6/6 bonus anymore I know it use to state the bug.

Was it fixed with out patch notes?

Just checked using steady weapon in mists on heavy golem and I think it is fixed.

Double strike from thief using steal to get might with thrill of the crime trait.

Damage forumla = (skill coefficient) * power * (weapon strength)/targets armor
Double strike skill coefficient = .56
Power = 1081
Heavy Golem = 2600 armor

These are the results for each hit individually not the sum.

No might stacks: = 30

1 stack of might 5/6 = 31

Equipping 6/6 = 32

Looks like it was fixed but not in patch notes.

I should have tested it first before I made the other thread my mistake but the rune is fixed.

Anierna.6918:

It would still not be better than either Scholars (if your group can already maintain perma 25 stacks) or Might Durations (2x Fire, 2x Pirate, 2x Hoelbrak)(if it’s up to you to maintain all the Might).

I did a Might Durations vs. Scholars comparison at the end of my guide; the section is linked here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/The-Ele-Meta-Dungeon-Speed-Runs-2-0/first#post3112693

I can do a Strengths vs. Might Durations vs. Scholars if you like, but I can tell you right now that Scholars will be better than Strengths if you’re looking at dmg, and Might Durations will be better than Strengths if you’re looking at upkeeping Might.

Could you do Strength vs Ruby Orbs? I know nothing beats Scholars and probably never will.

The wiki doesn’t state that it is bugged for the 6/6 bonus anymore I know it use to state the bug.

Just checked using steady weapon in mists on heavy golem and I think it is fixed.

Double strike from thief using steal to get might with thrill of the crime trait.

Damage forumla = (skill coefficient) * power * (weapon strength)/targets armor
Double strike skill coefficient = .56
Power = 1081
Heavy Golem = 2600 armor

These are the results for each hit individually not the sum.

No might stacks: = 30

1 stack of might 5/6 = 31

Equipping 6/6 = 32

Looks like it was fixed but not in patch notes.

Just posting this in the ele forums because this would be a great rune for ele’s.

Someone can double check for me

Bsgapollo.5364:

Zelyhn.8069:

Unless you are using staff the “dps element” is air.

Scholars are the best choice.

Isn’t the 6/6 runes of strength bugged? Wiki does not say it is but I have not seen confirmation anywhere.

What makes you think it’s bugged?

It has been bugged for a long time I just looked at the Wiki so I’ll ask in the bug forum and see if it was fixed but not in patch notes. Otherwise it still is bugged and has been for a long time.

I always wanted to use that rune but it was/is bugged. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Bug-superior-rune-of-strength-is-bugged

The wiki has changed doesn’t say it is bugged so maybe it was fixed.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Ok, thanks. Trying to figure out what the 20 in earth is for, but I think I can figure out the rest.

Its Zerk ammy or Valk w/ Zerk jewel, double arcanes on utilities. The earth traits are stone splinters and rock solid.

P Fun Daddy.1208:

What utilities? And what kind of gear?

Ill get the rest from him later he just logged off. Black Beard probably knows though. I just asked my guildie cause he was on and I saw this thread.