Guild Wars 2

Every profession can to some degree do every type of playstyle but there are limitations put on all classes usually as that classes weakness.

Mesmers don’t have great OOC mobility on purpose
Necro’s don’t have good mobility on purpose
Engi’s aren’t as good at condi pressure as a necro but have mobility.
Guardians can be very hard to kill now give them warriors mobility?

That is why every class has weaknesses and strengths so they are wanted. If Necro’s had good mobility why would you bring a Engi for condi pressure?

I see mesmers asking for mobility buff’s and Anet might cave into that one day but they where designed to not have great OOC mobility as a design decision it is also why they are somewhat weak to condition compared to other classes.

I don’t really want to dig for that mesmer conditions quote from chap but the Engi vs Necro comparison I can post have that one bookmarked.

Finnway.2183:

haviz.1340:

Everything is viable thus “any class can play any role”.

Everything is not viable in the sense that DPS far out-performs other builds in open-world PvE, Dungeons, and Fractals.

It is viable I can go do temple of Balthazaar right now in full clerics gear and nobody would know but I am not advertising that I am in clerics neither am I hiding it.

Of course DPS out performs healing power for Damage. What else is there besides damage? You kill with damage. You don’t kill with vitality, toughness, or healing power. Those stats don’t do damage power, precision, crit damage and condition damage kill.

It is easy to say that there is a flaw in zerker gear but what is the alternative clerics? Soldiers? You still came in the dungeon to kill stuff so you brought gear to kill. If you don’t need the vitality, toughness, or healing power why bring that kind of gear?

Finnway.2183:

Nike Porphyrogenita.8137:

Still waiting to hear what the “problem” is. In a good player’s hands, pve dps builds are objectively superior.

SO WHAT? Please explain why and how this is a “problem” that requires “fixing.”

It’s not how the game was advertised. We were told “any class can play any role” and right now that is ludicrous because DPS builds are far superior to anything else.

Right now people are tired of face-rolling through content to farm gold. The fact that DPS builds are the only viable ones is part of that equation. If I had three viable builds on my Guardian each with different stats I might be inclined to earn different armor sets and unlock cosmetics for them.

The way the game works right now do you think combat is better or worse than other MMORPG’s you have played? (I don’t mean recently; I mean any game since the dawn of time)

The game was like that at launch and even a few months into it but people learned the encounters learned the AI’s patterns so they could speed up the runs faster and faster. That doesn’t have anything to do with builds or armor that is just evolution. People basically learned2play. What is likely to happen is enrage timer type of stuff happening putting arbitrary barriers on already existing enemies so that people are “forced” to bring other gear or classes. Now the only “forcing” is self inflicted it isn’t Anet’s fault players kick other players for not running meta builds. The players adapted became better and thus this is a unintended consequence of the current AI programming in dungeons.

haviz.1340:

oZii.2864:

I think that is what some people are asking for that all they have to do is focus on dodging tanking and healing people they don’t have to do damage to feel "wanted’ in their other gear.

That’s how it is currently and this is not what people demand. They demand that their tanky builds have similar efficiency to glass cannon builds which sounds and is ridiculous.

I take away from the discussion that people want to basically hop out of WvW in their full PVT armor open LFG and get a group without being called out that they aren’t zerker.

I like the idea of purity but the other ones I am not so sure about. You can right now for pretty much every class put a build together that won’t die. Conditions are suppose to be a soft counter to tanky bunkers. On paper a Necro and Guardian should cancel each other out. Necros are suppose to deteriorate a team and guardian keeps that team healthy to make it more simple.

Strictly from a PvP/WvW setting conditions are strong in small scale and are almost nonexistant once you get to numbers of 15+ then it becomes all about CC stability uptime, attrition, and catching people out of position.

I like your purity idea as a start not sure about the other ones.

haviz.1340:

oZii.2864:

Good video this is the other side of the Spectrum tanky no thought process just press your buttons dodge key doesn’t exist. So you have DPS race or you could have this video the 2 extremes. In the middle is? People that don’t care if you are dps or tanky and just want to run the dungeon for fun regardless of what the gear is or party comp.

Fun for some is efficient dps focused builds with min/max and theorycrafting. Theorycrafters are always going to min/max the best possible build and we all reap the benefits of those theorycrafters when making gear choices. There is a reason the most expensive runes from before the first ascended patch are no longer some of the most expensive runes anymore. Everyone learned and information was posted it is why sigil of force is over 1 gold now when it use to be 20 silver.

The middle is that you dodge and tank while healing up. Sounds reasonable?

I think that is what some people are asking for that all they have to do is focus on dodging tanking and healing people they don’t have to do damage to feel "wanted’ in their other gear.

haviz.1340:

Ahlen.7591:

I always enjoy these threads. It’s always “Zerk players, your playstyle is lesser and our tanky mindless playstyle is better!”

Especially things like making active dodge, one of the most skillful things that the game has going for it, less important. While increasing the mindlessness of just stacking defenses.

Something like this?

http://youtu.be/b2VhmwLwvrM

Good video this is the other side of the Spectrum tanky no thought process just press your buttons dodge key doesn’t exist. So you have DPS race or you could have this video the 2 extremes. In the middle is? People that don’t care if you are dps or tanky and just want to run the dungeon for fun regardless of what the gear is or party comp.

Fun for some is efficient dps focused builds with min/max and theorycrafting. Theorycrafters are always going to min/max the best possible build and we all reap the benefits of those theorycrafters when making gear choices. There is a reason the most expensive runes from before the first ascended patch are no longer some of the most expensive runes anymore. Everyone learned and information was posted it is why sigil of force is over 1 gold now when it use to be 20 silver.

I don’t feel that berseker gear would be nerfed in it’s effectiveness for DPS just that some dungeons and enemies will have more requirements to be defeated besides just dps. Where some other element is required like healing or conditions etc. If that is added it will be arbitrary barriers added or the sake of diversity in dungeons besides zerk but it is what people are asking for.

Tactu.4867:

on this thread :
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Warrior-Usain-Bolt/page/6
people are arguing about the mobility of the warrior,when someone suggested that they’re movement should have the same treatment as our RTL.
Then this guy ,wrote this:

Arlette.9684:

Conclussion:

Jon Peters plays a Warrior and at some point back in the day he got killed by an Ele

oh my god , i share the same idea =))

i imagine him cursing and rage-quitting when that ele was floor mopping with his warrior , then he went to his job and demanded the developers to nerf eles .

(can’t stop laughing)

How many of you agree with this ?

(on the bright side … at this time , they can’t nerf us anymore because i’m pretty sure most of us here are 1 idiotic nerf away to abandon eles . )

It is always devs hate my class they love this class they designed them all.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2guru/b/365009593

go to 45:59 Josh Davis aka “Grouch” brings up Ele sustain and Elementalist being to strong possibly.

Jon Peters reply “Eles are strong!!??” with a are you serious tone as he looks at Chap.

It is easy to say they don’t love me they love someone else.

Josh “Grouch” also left this nugget yesterday though in the new balance forum

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PVP-Undo-PVP-only-nerfs-before-balancing/first#post3486643

Josh Davis.6015:

We agree. There were some PvP-only changes for professions that made sense in a previous meta, but not so much now. I expect we’ll be looking very closely at some of these skills over the next few weeks.

He was asking the relevant question brought up by other players and this was before he worked at Anet.

It is just better to get a clear picture on everything instead of just pointing fingers. The players asked for Ele nerfs essentially.

Here is another fun fact about Jon Peters and his Warrior

The entire warrior forums laughed when the screen shot of him with 5 signets was shown. Cause signets are’t cool unless it was “SOR” now how many warriors are rocking 2-3+ signets? He was running 5 signets to test them and improve them which he did. Now we just need him to run signets on Ele’s and improve those

Lonami.2987:

Reposting myself from Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1v3w03/state_of_the_zerk_awesome_insight_by_blood_red/ceoiywv

I don’t think it would affect WvW or sPvP at all.

I’ve always said the problem lies in the content, not in the professions themselves. Yes, I know some professions, like the warrior, still do too much damage in comparison with the others, but this should be addressed with buffs, and not nerfs, and is not the core problem.

Let’s look at the Queen’s Gauntlet. It’s specially painful because it was pretty much designed around it being a DPS race:

• Time limit. If you don’t have good DPS, you won’t kill the boss in time, and you die.
• Instant-downing abilities. Why are you going to give a kitten about vitality or toughness when half the attacks of the enemy boss are grossly overpowered and down you with one hit?

ArenaNet put those mechanics there, and you got to be blind not to notice how biased they were. They could have done incredible bosses where you needed condition and tank builds, but they didn’t. Just DPS.

In my opinion, they do need to rework the entire AI, and make it more tactic. Give the enemies more self-healing abilities, and allow them to be interrupted. Dodges are about tactical defense, but Crowd Control, which should be tactical offense, doesn’t get any love, and when you need it there’s always an abuse of the defiant mechanic. Also, give enemies abilities to remove endurance.

Two things they need to fix, for good. They innovated in many things, and they should be the first MMO to kill these two things:

• Pulling: Attacking an enemy to make it come for you with the rest of his group not noticing.
• Kiting: Running around with the enemy chasing you, while you hit them.

Groups of enemies should react together, and melee enemies should stop chasing you after a while and change their strategy, attacking you at distance, shielding or reflecting your ranged attacks.

I don’t think the Gaunlet was specifically about DPS and running full zerk but more about changing your traits hence the retraiter that was there. I did the tornado lady on my ele had to go into earth for Stab on earth armor of earth trait and cantrip cooldowns. I never go in earth I think that was the design behind the gauntlet now Dead-Eye Dumwell farming was a different story and all about dps racing.

I think they have potential but they way they are implemented now doesn’t work.

Move burning precision down to the 5 point in fire change to every kittens replace burning precision with a supreme justice type trait so that it procs every 3rd hit not need for crit allowing cleave application. If it was like permeating wraith though it would be really good procing 240 radius AOE around the Ele burning for 1 second. I’d put 5 points in fire for that with lingering elements synergy. Probably to strong for 5 point but Adept wouldn’t be to bad.

The op is just awesome i will now look through bloods post history and read his other topics.

+++1

This could help stabilize things especially for Elementalist. Just revert some of the early nerfs or at least the first 2 nerf sets that happened back to back in the early parts of the game.

hihey.1075:

Azreell.1568:

This build is built solely for trolling and 1v1s.

Beyond that the build is useless in all other aspects of the game.

What amazes me is that it is even being brought up at all by players in this forum. It is IMPOSSIBLE to balance a game around 1v1s and would unbalance the game even further if they tried.

Balance for all games center around group play. No matter what game or what patch there will always be certain specs or classes which fundamentally do better then others in small settings or 1v1s.

If you are not new to mmorpgs then most of this you already know.

My suggestion for balance is this:

If you can’t handle or aren’t mature enough to handle loosing 1v1s to a duelist based class perhaps you shouldn’t be dueling.

It’s not just the dueling fact.
I duel PU mesmers all the time in the OS and they drop like flies because they are all cookie cutters.
What we (or at least I) are appointing is the completely low skill floor to play this spec, since it is a low risk, high reward build.

It only fits the criteria of low risk high reward in a 1v1. That is why conversations around 1v1’s are silly.

Imagine if this game had no loading and you could essentially swap characters on the fly, free trait resets, and a bag with all your armor and trinkets ready to go.

1v1’s would be counter picks that is why this is silly to bring up because 1v1 balance in gw2 would make things worse it would never end and who is even the final word on 1v1 balance?

I fight a pu I can roll them with my necro or grab my P/D perp thief and CnD clones till I win, I fight a P/D thief I go get my necro or play sword/dagger thief, I fight a necro I go get my warrior with zerk stance and a hammer and mace shield, I fight a ele I can run hambow, never ending cycle. Dueling Servers? Really can’t believe those are even brought into the discussion well one that hopes to be serious.

KOLOS.2140:

WHat heal skill is recoomended, shelter, or the signet…. each is sick, but the signet is 40 second cooldown

From my research so far on guardian shelter is the preferred heal because you need to block like 1,500 damage to equal signet. In WvW 1500 damage happens regularly.

Victoitor.2917:

Hey guys, I know it’s really hard to discuss OP builds on these forums. Most responses come in the form of “trying doing this” or “try doing that”. “You should play this” or “you should play that”. This topic is for the people that believe PU mesmers are OP and would like to think of ways to balance them. If you want to post on strategies for fighting a PU mesmer, please create another topic and post there. This is not the place to discuss strategies.

Victoitor.2917:

I’m surprised no one has brought this up yet. In WvW, these guys can take camps with defenders and still kill everyone while being virtually immortal. I can’t say what exactly is is so OP about them, but everyone I talk to, even mesmers themselves, agree PU mesmers are quite OP. I don’t really know this build well and why it’s so strong, but I at least would like to know what other players think on this topic.

I do know what they are doing. I’ve read tips on how to deal with them, but they generally don’t really work. I don’t even know how to balance this properly, just wanted to start the discussion.

We should all make threads with very little knowledge and move to promote discussion based on secondhand knowledge from people we talk to. At least research PU first. How can you have a serious balance discussion on the topic but you don’t even know the material yourself?

Hey guys I heard bowbear rangers are OP discuss!
I don’t have a Engineer and I didn’t take the time to research this OP build but I heard its OP discuss! I mean seriously discuss! I will even have counter arguments based on my lack of knowledge.

Everyone with knowledge is telling you it isn’t OP the only people that call it OP are the ones foolish enough to fight them with out a build that can handle the Mesmer. Dueling in the Sanctum doesn’t make them OP which is probably where your second hand knowledge came from dueling. You can ignore them out in the open world and most of them pick fights stacked in their favor. They are looking for other duelist because that build is designed to counter duelists.

I roll up with my terrormancer and then they don’t want to duel. I’m OP until a balance stance warrior with hammer comes along or a diamond skin ele.

P/D perp thieves are far more dangerous then PU mesmers you can ignore. PU is designed for Dueling and very small scale roaming. If I run full clerics armor on my Ele and don’t die to a PU but can’t kill him either who is OP?

I am new to guard (2 weeks) my main class is Ele so I am still learning the small details of guardian.

I like this alot I run that trait setup currently with hoelbrak I do like your stat spread here alot though.

Blackhat.4016:

Hello everyone,

I just updated the guide. I know it’s been a while since the last update but I simply didn’t have the time or motivation.

Anyway, feel free to leave a comment to let me know what you think.

thanks will look

For some reason I feel like the OP rolled up his sleeves typed this out with a cup of coffee as if he was really going to work.

ens.9854:

Looking at the other professions I play the most (thief guard war) I see many more options.

Thief builds are mainly defined by weapon set and then somewhat by whether they take shadow arts or not (deadly/trickery/acro don’t change a whole lot in how a build plays). Even being locked into a few utilities they still have a variety of play.

Guard builds are overwhelmingly characterized by what grandmaster trait they use (AH, meditations, RHS) and to a lesser extent their amulet—weapons are chosen entirely based on utility.

Warrior builds are sort of a mix(traits mainly just for increasing offense or defense passively) but their weapons have definite identity as to what they accomplish

What is ele lacking here? Are their weapons too samey(do they need another?), are their traits not able to be built around like guard(cept fresh air)? Is their damage so poor that they are forced to one end of the spectrum or they other (either zerk to out DPS healing or bunker and 0 DPS)?

You didn’t specify what area of the game. It kind of feels like you have taken some opinions from others and just came to ask the questions.

If you are referring to s/tPvP there are 5 roles you take the best choice to fill that role if you can’t have the best in that role you take the next best. So any role that the ele can fill currently in s/tPvP another class does better. This isn’t specifically pointed at ele because it can happen to every class and has at some point in the games cycle. Right now for serious s/tPvP play you are either S/x burst or staff glass or bunker.

This is how it is in PvE for all classes meta builds for PvE content for optimal efficient runs alongside like minded individuals. So you run those builds or you can group with people that don’t care and run what you like.

WvW you run whatever you want BUT if you want something effective for that specific role then you play that build. Roamers is D/D, S/D, S/F with different trait setups. Small groups any of those work and zerging I would say S/x and Staff would be my picks.

The only thing that is lacking for build diversity is really a need to spec heavy fire outside of PvE builds and glass staff in PvP environments. In PvP unless you are building a gimmick as a S/D, S/F, or D/D you really have to reason to go into fire or to a greater extent I would say you can’t afford to go into fire with those sets.

There is diversity on the elementalist it just depends on what you are doing and how you want to do it.

Ezrael.6859:

Constant passive healing should not exist in the game, it’s too easy, takes away all the skill for the player to manage their healing and for the enemy to interrupt or counter their healing. It also makes Shield Block, Endure Pain and simply running away for a bit into healing abilities.

Demanding that any enemy apply 100% uptime poison as the only way to counter this particular heal is unacceptable, 3 professions have no access to poison and 100% heal reduction is not an acceptable counter for good game-play.

The passive aspect of the skill should be changed to grant a heal when attacking.

Passive: Heal for 400 every time you use a weapon skill.
Active: Heal for 3750.

You want to turn it into Signet of Restoration like Elementalist which gets double punished by poison and confusion. I main Ele and SOR is my favorite heal but you do need alot of care when using it if condi engis or mesmers are around. Maybe this would balance it for warriors.

Mash Hog.5672:

oZii.2864:

Mash Hog.5672:

The reason I didn’t post this was because I felt that we had enough condi clears and good enough access to it. The issue lies more on the fact that condispam is incredibly prevalent and THAT needs to be toned down instead of our defense against conditions moved up.

I agree Ele has good condition management options. It is just that conditions need to be toned down. In dueling/roaming in WvW it is different then sPvP balance.

I bring up my time playing guardians alot but I feel that people compare ele’s defensive abilities to guards and our offensive abilities to warriors.

Sure a ele has to go 30 water and 20 arcana for 50 point investment but a guard has to go 30 honor, 10 valor, and 20 virtues for a 60 point investment and to really click you need some extra runes on top of it with soldier. Ether renewal tips it totally into eles favor since guards just have signet for 1 condi every 10 secs.

If anything I would say using this perspective is that guards have some pretty good group utilites to deal with conditions. Ele could maybe use some help on the utility front to deal with conditions and maybe that would allow some people to feel comfortable moving out of water though many don’t go 30 in water and that is really D/D and Staff bunkers.

I would like mainhand dagger given something like rock barrier.

Thats where Glyphs and Sigils can come in:
Once Glyphs and Sigils get turned into more effective utilities, we would be able to build around those utilities and explore new builds.

Yea I agree the glyphs and signets are a bit selfish with signets being pretty lackluster. I added some more to that specific post you quoted saying the same thing.

Mash Hog.5672:

The reason I didn’t post this was because I felt that we had enough condi clears and good enough access to it. The issue lies more on the fact that condispam is incredibly prevalent and THAT needs to be toned down instead of our defense against conditions moved up.

I agree Ele has good condition management options. It is just that conditions need to be toned down. In dueling/roaming in WvW it is different then sPvP balance.

I bring up my time lately playing Guardian alot but I feel that people compare Ele’s defensive abilities to Guards and our offensive abilities to Warriors. It really has opened my eyes playing on both spectrums of offense and defense where Ele should sit somewhere around the middle then you build leaning toward one or the other while not exactly doing the Guard or Warriors job but not as good as the Guard or Warrior.

Sure a ele has to go 30 water and 20 arcana for 50 point investment but a guard has to go 30 honor, 10 valor, and 20 virtues for a 60 point investment and to really click you need some extra runes on top of it with soldier. Ether renewal tips it totally into eles favor since guards just have signet for 1 condi every 10 secs.

If anything I would say using this perspective is that guards have some pretty good group utilites to deal with conditions. Ele could maybe use some help on the utility front to deal with conditions which would help with survivability and bring a bit of extra group support clears besides staff, elemental attunement with 30 water or evasive arcana and dagger 5 in water.

I would like mainhand dagger given something like rock barrier.

Atherakhia.4086:

But with that being the case, do Elementalists have trouble beating a Warrior? They’re effectively the paper to a Warrior’s rock even in their current form.

A hambow warrior is any Elementalists Rock+paper+Scissors. I am not for a super nerf to Warrior healing signet just that the base be brought down just a tad and scaling with healing power improved. There is a reason you can get away with 15 point investments into defense for adrenal health and still put points into damage.

In WvW/PvE this is much easier because of gear customization so if you where required to throw on a celestial piece or 2 it isn’t that bad. In tPvP/sPvP I can see this being a bit harder to balance. If you nerf it to much and improve scaling then healing signet becomes bunker only because of lesser customization there.

Tim.6450:

oZii.2864:

@Tim

The problem people have with conditions in a PvP environment is that a condition build is essentially lay your damage down and watch it work. Most condition players overkill and play them as if they are playing a power build. Almost every good condition damage build has a good auto attack to go with it also laying conditions. If the enemy is forced to back off or you are forced to back off or use los the conditions are still working where as the power players damage isn’t being applied.

Of course it does that’s damage that you have yet to receive that is catching up.
example :
both players hit for 1K on condition damage spread over ten seconds other physical with an attack speed of 1 hit/s. So after 10 seconds the physical damage user did 10K and the conditon user 5~6K with 5~4 K catching up.

The physical user has to stay connected to target and keep applying damage. With enough investment in condition damage a few attacks and the condition user can kite and reapply when needed.

Conditions are a attrition playstyle of course but most people going condition builds know this.

I have a Necro, Thief, and Mesmer who are classes that I will run condition builds on. When I go out on my conditionmancer I am not expecting to kill people in 5 seconds as if I was running a zerk life blast build. I could care less how fast I kill most people just that they die.

If your main form of decided damage is DOT’s then you already know you need TIME for the damage to happen that is the nature of conditions. You already made that choice when you made your build how you will kill.

In PvE which this discussion wasn’t really around the optimal is to kill as fast as possible which is something conditions don’t do because you have to load them up.

Not a fan of this suggestion at all. This feels more WvW focused then anything else and more directed at thief perhaps or warriors. Guardian Sword 2 is hardly a awesome escape skill it allows for some kiting but no means a get out of jail card. I can’t believe you brought that up at all.

Sounds a bit biased here not sure what you play but it has to be a build/class with low mobility that you feel would win fights(directed mostly at 1v1’s) if you could force and stay engaged with your enemy. My guess is a bunker of some sort.

jihm.2315:

elementalists used to beat me easy at one vs one i dont know what happened lately and i beat them most times. i actually stopped chasing them to kill them anymore , fair play to eles.
guardian here.
maybe try healing build? might be good.

It is a 1v1 a Elementalist that doesn’t want to die to a Guardian can definitely choose to not die. A guardian can also build if they want to not die to a Elementalist in a 1v1. Why 1v1 balance means very little.

Ex. Was dueling a pretty bursty ele from {Hope} guild a Asuran. I had 416 healing power on my Guardian and he thought I was bunker. I was running 0/0/30/20/20 on my guard with AH and shouts.

Howell Qagan.9752:

I am going to quote from the July 23rd, 2013 update notes:

AidanTaylor.3872:

• Healing Signet (Passive): Reworked the formula that this passive heal uses. At level 80, this skill goes from 392 healing per 3 seconds to 467 healing per 3 seconds with 1500 healing power.

To me it looks like they have designed it a bit differently (basically warriors should have 1/3 of the healing from the signet passive) and maybe even forgot about it since then?
Anyway, you can read it here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-July-23rd-2013

That was a typo Jon P came into Warrior forums and stated it was a typo in the notes.

Thedenofsin.7340:

That was simply a suggestion. Don’t get hung up on a solution, just the problem. For the sake of clarity, the suggestion I offered implied the signet would still have an active component as well.

Ahh ok my apologies.

Disclaimer I am new to guard and from playing my main of Ele to guardian these past 2 weeks I agree that is definitely the number one issue I find with playing DPS guard.

I think your zealots speed would be better if it was super speed perhaps 5 seconds would still be ok?

alanis.6094:

Yet the majority of players still go power. (and complain about conditions)

I don’t think the majority of the people complaining are “going power” I just think people are pointing out that going conditions is much more effective then going power. Just about every class can put together a competitive power build in PvP but not every class can put together a competitive condition build.

@Tim

The problem people have with conditions in a PvP environment is that a condition build is essentially lay your damage down and watch it work. Most condition players overkill and play them as if they are playing a power build. Almost every good condition damage build has a good auto attack to go with it also laying conditions. If the enemy is forced to back off or you are forced to back off or use los the conditions are still working where as the power players damage isn’t being applied.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Tim.6450:

interesting suggestion, but what if your adrenaline is full?

Still heals. The idea is that the heal could stay where it is, provided the warrior is whacking away at people, and finishers (since they drain adrenaline) would not heal. That prevents the 3 second skullcrack == 1200+heal and similar things.

• It also means that warriors need to think more carefully about when to disengage as opposed to waiting until he/she is super-low on hp then boogie out.

• An interesting side-effect could be that multi-hit attacks (like a full Hundred Blades) could result in a burst heal.

• It also means that dodges, stuns and interrupts and LOS would counter the passive healing

I think reducing the base heal and having it scale well with +healing would work as well. However, I still think there needs to be more counterplay to the heal. And no, I don’t consider poison to be counterplay to HS.

I think that 400hp/sec healing should be attainable through either sacrifice (i.e. healing gear) or through some concerted effort (e.g. continually doling out damage).

Sounds like you want the signet to be the new guardian heal but always on. I think your suggestion makes it that nobody would use it.

Xunleashed.5271:

oZii.2864:

Cassiel.8762:

Hi guys! Me and 2 other people got facerolled by 2 d/d elementalists yesterday in wvw. From what I could observe they were both 0/10/0/30/30 boon duration eles and they were cycling through attunements such that none of them were in water attunement at the same time. Whenever we would immobilize or interrupt one of them the other would come in with updraft or earthquake or pop into water for aoe condi removal. What are some tips for taking on such a setup?

What are you and the other people playing? It depends on the comp if you can counter or not.

Easy face roll you just would need 1 necro and 1 thief with perplexity problem solved.

I don’t think that without stability from a guardian the necro can stand the cc chain that 2 eles can do, and if the necro can’t remove their boons (10 seconds of stability in armor of earth full boon duration) the perplexity thief can’t do much to save him

Well the typical 10/0/30/0/30 perplexity build is a pain to fight with a Necro there it would be worse. This is all hypothetical of course but if I was on my Necro with a P/D perp thief I don’t see a problem spectral wall for protection and area denial range them down force armor of earth. If I have corrupt boon and he has 30 trick stab goes bye bye instantly. After that it is smooth sailing. Ether renewal gets interrupted by necro and thief easily so I see that as a easy win for a P/D thief and Necro 2 classes that I have and played a bit. I know a P/D thief is the cheese and don’t claim it as a skill build at all I prefer power on my thief but P/D is very very effective with perplexity.

The D/D is at a disadvantage in that fight because of ranged pressure you have to eat damage to hit either of those 2 builds and if a necro lays down defensive marks like he should you would be under alot of pressure while he can range with scepter.

Grevender.9235:

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

The last patch changed nothing in pvp. Diamond skin is a waste of a grandmaster trait, and all the other changes were nerfs (moving elemental attunement and cleansing wave up to master). So overall we’re even worse off than we were before the Dec 10 patch.

You simply cannot judge class performance by wvw because the completely overpowered gear there masks all class issues.

I completely agree with bolded text, that’s why I always stressed how important is to balance 1vs1, because that’s the only true balance.
BUT, imho, you should not consider the traits movements as necessarily “nerf” only because they affected YOUR build. Others classes -except Mesmer, it was already godly, and now it has been boosted beyond reason- had their traits moved as well and certain of them have been hit by the nerfbat as well.
A good overall position of Ele in sPvP is what I hope for, because that will mean a practical improvement in all aspects of Elementalist daily life in all part of the games.

I don’t agree with your notion of balancing around 1v1’s you just end up with dueling builds and no real roles. The mesmer has pretty much been the king of 1v1 since the game started even when it fell out of the meta in sPvP it still was king of dueling or 1v1. It still didn’t find it’s way in sPvP just because it was strong in 1v1.

You have to balance for game mode not 1v1’s which would be near impossible in guild wars 2. Many people say the guardian is the epitome of balance in guild wars 2 and in my time past 2 weeks playing guardian the first thing that struck me was how situational it is. You have to have the right tools for the right fight against the right opponent.

None of my other classes which are great at 1v1’s do I feel so inclined to change things in 1v1 then what I normally roam with. The guardian however is different animal and I would say is pretty weak in a 1v1 it just is probably the best at not dying if it doesn’t want. So 1v1’s are a terrible place to look at for balance. The conditions that most of us long time Ele’s laugh at are probably the single most annoying thing I hate about Ele’s when I duel them on my Guardian.

Cassiel.8762:

Hi guys! Me and 2 other people got facerolled by 2 d/d elementalists yesterday in wvw. From what I could observe they were both 0/10/0/30/30 boon duration eles and they were cycling through attunements such that none of them were in water attunement at the same time. Whenever we would immobilize or interrupt one of them the other would come in with updraft or earthquake or pop into water for aoe condi removal. What are some tips for taking on such a setup?

What are you and the other people playing? It depends on the comp if you can counter or not.

Easy face roll you just would need 1 necro and 1 thief with perplexity problem solved.

Crapgame.6519:

Going to try that Beta this weekend or so I hope Also I see that the rumor mill is going full steam with the V.I.P data mined info. Very well could be the nail in the coffin for many although most of the items seem rather useless.

It is not for NA markets Dev responded about the datamined VIP. As in people overreacted as per usual in MMO’s

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/VIP-Membership/page/5#post3474276

LightningBlaze.4913:

oZii.2864:

LightningBlaze.4913:

Anierna.6918:

Every single one of those links needs a disclaimer that says:

“d/d builds are not meant to be used in dungeons. There are higher-dmg’ing alternatives”

That disclaimer is false and invalid if it goes against the user preference. Besides for pve anything works.

Every forum has the PvE minds

Anierna is the Ele PvE focused poster
Nike is the every class I think poster
Guanglai Kangyi I heard of but I don’t know what his main is but he is on the Guard forums alot.

Your point Ozi? Trying to pursue players that d/d is not meant to be used in dungeons because there are other higher damaging alternatives doesn’t make it true. Some players prefer other styles than just dealing higher damage or being at range. Dealing great damage is my style as well but I understand it is not for everyone. Ele is awesome at playing however you want it to play specially in pve and be very effective towards the group even in pug groups.

My point is that their are people that post with only PvE and optimal builds in mind. Not saying that it is right or wrong it just is. If someone doesn’t run D/D Ele in PvE because Anierna says that it’s bad for PvE that is really on them and not Anierna he doesn’t control their mind or body.

Everything on the forums is usually just advice but none of it is law he is correct that their are higher damaging options. His post is just stating that D/D is not the max optimal set for PvE.

It could come off as elitist to new players so I understand that point but a forum really is only advice.

LightningBlaze.4913:

Anierna.6918:

Every single one of those links needs a disclaimer that says:

“d/d builds are not meant to be used in dungeons. There are higher-dmg’ing alternatives”

That disclaimer is false and invalid if it goes against the user preference. Besides for pve anything works.

Every forum has the PvE minds

Anierna is the Ele PvE focused poster
Nike is the every class I think poster
Guanglai Kangyi I heard of but I don’t know what his main is but he is on the Guard forums alot.

Anierna.6918:

Every single one of those links needs a disclaimer that says:

“d/d builds are not meant to be used in dungeons. There are higher-dmg’ing alternatives”

Noted will add

I am down for this sign me up

#free bump

15 char

Yea I don’t run -condition duration food on my warrior, ele, or guardian anymore only run it on my mesmer while my clones do work lolz.

I can perma chill warriors for 10+ seconds maxing out at around 20 seconds on my Necro even if they have melandru+food+dogged march.

If you are running it only because of necromancers I would just save the money and grab another food.

I stopped using lemongrass and go deeps food. Blow them up before they blow you up.

Not bad video though

I’ll take a stab

Healing power is about 550 ish but lightning whips have good damage when not many might stacks or bloodlust stacks

So 2-3 celestial pieces Helm, Coat, Legs? HP is kind of high but maybe from buffs so zerk/valk cav on trinkets knights armor soldier weapons is my guess.

Incinerary GET out of my teamspeak unless you get a Mic! sorry to derail lol

This is a discussion on low hp in the Guardian forums from a while back.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Why-low-base-HP-might-be-a-good-thing/first

The same can be applied to Ele which probably has it better at low HP then guard since we can be more mobile and apply protection with good dps. You want max protection uptime on a Guard you need to run 2 utilities with shouts or hammer. Really more vit just allows you to make more mistakes and trying to run around for a large part of the fight trying to recover that missing health pool. You won’t really being doing damage if you get spiked you will be trying to heal all the time.

We should be past the phase of getting 1 shot by thieves and that really is the only reason you need higher hp. Mesmers with higher HP or Necros with higher HP just can make more mistakes or have a way to cover up the mis-timed dodge.

Once you blow through deathshroud on a necro or you come across one that doesn’t have life force the fight is completely different and when I run my necro all that extra HP just gives me a slight buffer to try to build up life force if I am at 0% . Most of the terrormancer running around sPvP probably only have 18k anyway which a ele can reach but why would you want to.

More hp means bye bye elemental attunement. They would never raise ele’s base HP and leave all the bells and whistles we are use to exactly the same. They wont just say here you go take 2k extra.

I’m new on guardian but I feel like the condi meta is a bit more manageable now. It really is as you said in your healway guardian thread kill them before they kill you. On my guardian I run dps food on my main Ele I run dps food, dps food on my Warrior. Not sure what happened but I think the necro rollers lessened or stop playing. P/D thieves are still present but you just need a scepter on guard for them imo, PU mesmer still rampant but you can ignore them.

My first thought is replace the knights trinkets with cav, ammy as zerk/valk
Back piece to cav change sentinel pieces to soldier.

This is what would happen my post from another thread

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|8.5n.h2.8.5n.0.d13.0.d14|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.71m.1g.71m.1n.71m.1g.71m.1n.71m.1g.71m|2t.d1d.2v.d14.3v.d17.2v.d1d.2t.0.2v.d13|p00.f0.k00.0.a5|6f.1|1n.1u.1v.1s.28|e

Power 2311 (no might stacks) 2611(easy 10 stacks of might)
35% chance to crit (no fury) 55% crit chance with fury (via zephyr’s boon)
83 critical damage
Heavy class modified Armor = 3066 (3186 while attuned to earth)
Heavy class modified Health = 19182

I am almost certain that if Ele’s HP was raised the condition management option we have now would be nerfed hard.

The ele can do alot of damage raising the hp would allow ele’s to make more mistakes therefore be more effective because we can afford to face tank damage to apply our own damage we wouldn’t need to be as careful. That is how warrior plays.

HP increase I think would see healing nerfed, condition removal nerfed, vigor nerfed.

ryokoalways.3450:

D/D, non-standard. Playing around with 20 water 20 arcana primary and 30 variable. Trying to build something where I can switch between various trait allocation and maintain respectable stats through those allocations.

Edit: Also correct, rune of strength. I was trying rune of wurm for HP, but I was told that was overkill.

I edit my other post to give you a idea of the stats I will end up at with my current build. I think 2.5-2.6k armor is fine and 16-17k vitality

Those are good runes comparable damage to full ruby orbs.