ok don’t take it and see how well you do against competent people alone and in team fights.
the reason people want it baseline is because the necro cant survive without it, the natural degeneration of ds is way too much for a mechanic that is our only defense.
play asura so people cant see what you are doing in pvp. thats about it
well i perservered with ranger and am getting better (having fun!) have managed to fight off some thieves but it still isn’t a fun fight at all…. i actually change my ideas about taunt as well, you kind of need it against anything that is fast (permanent swiftness/ superspeed+ leaps teleports) or has way too many evades/blocks.
even tried thief but ping does not allow >.<
i dono.. ranger isn’t for me i guess.
3 questions.
What build do you run?
What game mode, WvW or PvP?
What type of D/P thief, the normal power build or that cheese perma stealth?Typically, a condi trap ranger or a power longbow ranger are hard counters to a zerk d/p thief.
pvp
Just run a condition build. You will have enough tank to survive the burst and they will melt in your conditions.
It sounds like you are eating a lot of damage because you are standing still too much.
You will want to move around as much as possible. The less chances they get to pull off Backstabs, the better the fight will go for you. You will need to slot at least 1 stun break, usually Lighting Reflexes, if they are hitting you with Basilisk Venom a lot.
Know that they will often only have about 3 seconds of stealth each time they go invisible and if you are still in combat several seconds after they use Shadow Refuge, that means they didn’t run away and you need to keep moving to avoid BS.
they dont need to bs me to do stupid amounts of damage.. they dont need to stealth.. they just dodge pb shot and interrupt rf with headshot =\ and 1 spam will kill me while im in gs after they use bp on me twice and i try remove it due to how slow it is and the fact they can dodge alot
they just stand in barage and 1 spam me to death while im stuck there casting the skill i block them with gs meh chuck down a blind and continue to 1 spam. in your vids i saw you get killed by thieves many times really fast even tho you had your attention elsewhere but it was still quick.
taunt doesn’t seem to do much at all they hit it once and then go back to killing me =\
3 questions.
What build do you run?
What game mode, WvW or PvP?
What type of D/P thief, the normal power build or that cheese perma stealth?Typically, a condi trap ranger or a power longbow ranger are hard counters to a zerk d/p thief.
pvp
If you run something close to this build you shouldn’t have any problem with d/p thieves. If you do, you simply need to improve on your mechanical skills. Keep dueling thieves until you understand how to counter them.
yeah i was running that from metabattle but just get gud doesnt help much at all.
what do you do to counter instant stuns while you are using channel skills? and they just kite my pet with teleports and like i said if i use signet they just wait it out then continue. try knock back.. dodge, use rf headshot, get out gs stay out of range until headshot/steal then 111111111111111111or 22222222222222222222 because im under 50%
i know this is probably a dumb and obvious question and i am a noob to the class.. decided to diversify myself away from necro for a while.
i can beat cele ele on my ranger but for the life of my i cant touch a thief.. they just go headshot blind 1spam.. steal blind 1 spam rinse and repeat not long till im dead. if i do get a skill off then shadowstep away wait till its behind a cd wall continue to do the robot….
you do know shroud is all a necro has to defend its self right? you talk as if there is some other magical option to mitigate damage… 2 standard dodges can only get you so far
i just wish we could toggle mouse visible at all times and change its colour then i wouldn’t mind
well… taunt being over used while its bugged your pet in general is the most annoying thing ever conceived just under headshot thieves and the 2k range pew pew from a cliff that many classes cant do anything about will get people very angry with you.. and when they actually get within striking distance you just pop an immunity and trololololol on till you go invisible making the enemy fight your pet again… while they are stuck in place for ages by an elite in a decent cd..
still i would rather fight ranger then a good thief/mesmer.
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No thank you. I don’t want the Devs to dumb down the game just because people don’t know how to use their mouse, Target key or Tab button.
once stealth has been activated the target bind will go directly to the nearest ranger pet.. if a ranger pet is nowhere to be found then it will go to the nearest clone or minion as priority the same goes for tab target, nearest target is usually a pet/clone/minion.
i would use my mouse only its this kitten brown/gold colour that blends perfectly with the background/kittenitten on my screen with the added bonus of going invisible if i use my mouse to move
slow clap
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something i realized during the last beta weekend was the strength of reapers and how heralds slowly outdamage eles. now i won’t say that d/d is perfectly balanced (in regards to skill <-> reward) but if they indeed nerf them without compensating them otherwise (i would love a meta where dps ele would finally be viable) then ele will disappear from the pvp meta as a whole.
reaper pretty much counters d/d ele, i tested this with a necro friend, both 2000+ games on our respective classes. all the chill, the transfers, corrupts and direct damage a reaper can make use of will kill an ele over time.
on the other hand, i have played on herald and i have played on d/d ele against it, if you use your evades, blocks and cleanses well enough you can keep yourself from dying while you slowly outdamage a d/d ele.
counters are on the way
yeah a necro can kill a dd ele with one specific build “over time” a verry long time… time enough for one of its 4 friends to walk over and +1 you and if its 2x dd eles then having a team mate with you does not mean equal chances.
just played a game against condi cheese mesmer who specifically aimed for me the entire match because focus the necro cant do squat blah blah.. and after the game i went through the combat log with all outgoing enabled and never once saw plague sending activate, only the 2 plague signets i activated myself.
the reason i was even looking for this is because i have started suspecting it of never working anyway because i never notice conditions leaving me unless i use an actual skill to do it.
so what’s the go?
teleport skills remove them not you from the point and they did it by their own choice
There’s no Problem with burning, but there’s a huge Problem with ppl:
1) not dodging/kiting Ele Burn.
2) not using their condition-removal at the right time.
3) running through the ring of fire.
4) standing in burning-fields of Warrior or Guardian for example.
5) running builds that lack condi-removal, although it’s readily available for most builds.
6) teams not running the proper support-builds which completely negate condition-based builds (ShoutGuard, ShoutWar, Staff-Ele)
7) Ppl getting into situations where they shouldn’t be: If you’re not running much condi-clear it’s one thing, but if you then try to fight a condi-build over and over again, it’s just sutpid.I’ve never ever had even the slightest thought that burning or condis in general are too strong and I haven’t heard anything like that from good players either.
ahem…
1) not just giving the ele the point while rof is up or wasting dodges so they can cc you/hit you with even more burns/heavy hitters because yeah
2) has used cleanses and they are on a 30-50 second recharge oh well i should just cleanse this short cd burn skill how?
3) getting knocked/pulled/teleported/skill droped ontop of you through ring of fire for not just giving up the point and doing sleep emote
4) not just giving up the point and letting them win while doing the dance emote.
5) condi removal on way longer cd then application skills some builds literally useless and cant do kitten if take condi removal skills so should just do dance emote for entire game
6) need an ele to beat an ele check, how will you kill anything with tanks who will eventually be whittled down while clears are on cd
7)already been through this one especially if the other team is all heavy burn/condi (dance emote time)
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oh yeah here it is.. hope the dev takes note and changes this skill….
It’s so freaking kitten disgusting that Revenant’s enemy-teleports go through stability. I’m absolutely fine with how strong the class is otherwise, but this is downright unacceptable.
Well, the reason behind it is that this type of CC doesn’t interrupt anything(thus, Stability doesn’t do anything). I think it’s silly that it goes through Stab, but it sorta makes sense.
I think it would be better if it ate away Stab at a certain rate, though, like any other CC.
your attacks dont hit either so it may as well have interrupted you… hmm i recall a complaint about this during the beta and people just flipped the bird at the op funny….
nah that is thief who also happens to be the class you cant catch either =\
I don’t use burning much. I’m more focused on confusion. As to melee, are you seriously suggesting I try to melee a Reaper as a condi Mesmer?
well to be honest im glad you cant do anything to a reaper on that build… its so brokenly trolly its not funny. one of the top unfun builds to fight
I’m consistently not even denting reaper. That’s stupid. This whole idea needs a huge rework/nerf. I spent most of the last match trying to hurt a reaper and never managed to visibly reduce his health pool. ( and got top player for condition damage dealt )
Sorry that’s just gamebreaking strong.
try mele damage instead? burning will be a thing of the past soon so may aswell learn something else.
a thief with headshot on your team can shut down reaper.. cc and range is its weakness. if you cant kill it .. kill its boon bot then the necro
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- Increase the effects but give it an ICD. I don’t care if reapers heal or gain life force faster but it becomes an issue when your team capitalize on it.
- Change it to only trigger in combat. Obvious reasons is obvious.[/quote]
only work in combat… you just ruined it right there
I had a necro QQ against my condi guard. Strange encounter that was…
Burning from guards and engies are fine. It’s pretty much all they have. Time your dodge and cleanses to expose how weak they really are.Burns from ele Ring of Fire is not fine – it does 3 stacks of burning per hit at a very short 10s CD if traited and believe me, 99% of fire eles do. And if they fail to burn you, they could still do 4-6k dmg from burning speed crits (also on a low CD). Carrion guards and rabid engies could only have that in their dreams.
you know if you bait staff then burn bomb them when they leave staff and pop blocks/invulnerables the necro cant do anything about them right? transfers don’t work through them only traited staff can
active scaled defence is way better then a meat shield that blocks out your skills… i would kill for an instant blind on a low cd (on a weapon not tied to shrouds) that i could use to mitigate some attacks not the preemptive (i think he might do this so cast it now and hope) that we have now..
don’t get me wrong.. i like the necro theme and what it does but it just needs that something else that the devs seem afraid to give it. example.. why does well of darkness have such a stupidly long cooldown?… we have 10 second rings of fire and blind on burn, but oh no that blind pulsing stagnant well is too op must make it a 1 time skill per fight. Give the class some active defence
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I don’t get your point. Do you think your class was crap for almost 3 years until 0623, because you couldn’t kill well played thieves?
And yes there are necro builds who don’t care about eating 3 oder 4 of your shatters while fighting someone else. They probably can’t kill you because of your mobility, but in a 1vs1 you will never force them to leave the point.
necro was food for mesmers before the specializations so i don’t understand this post… i play mostly necro on this and an alt and dabbled in mesmer before i even knew the same dev worked on them. im terrible at mesmer and still down necros easily…
anything with an abundance if blinds and stuns should kill necros easily.. a thief can literally back peddle with bow and range a necro to death =|
well i didn’t know he has only just started to work on necro so i retract this for now because he has made some changes. i still think we really need to break away from the slow casts with massive tells face tank everything theme. if necro “wanted to get hit” as has been said then we would have traits that punish the enemy for hitting us.. similar to blinding ashes or chaos armour.
its just to easy for some classes/builds to shut you down or even ignore you.
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this skill forces your enemy to drop the orb in spirit watch. it is also a free decapper for conquest.. i really do not see why the devs think i win buttons are good.
nothing about fighting a revenant is fun its thief 2.0 in frustration levels as im teleported /pulled all over the place, but hey as long as its fun to play right?
so.. nerf this buff that nothing changes say job done?
love how people instantly assume i afk in these situations…. i don’t but there really is not much point continuing to fight either, as soon as they get 2 points it becomes a downhill fight because of how long and easily they can contest/decap a point turning it into a no go zone with ease
when you enter a match and look at the other team only to see 2+ eles vs your 0-1 ele, every match i have like this requires extreme effort and communication vs no communication to win a close game or just flat out lose.
i am really confused by the devs choice to leave ele in the state it is in,
1. its not fun to fight against it
2. the person playing the ele spec is hardly awake and you can even see them going 1 2 3 4 switch 1 2 3 switch 1 2 3 switch rotate like i saw on yt dhuuurrrr…..
3.nothing counters it.. they have it all, by the time a cele necro gets anywhere they are in a 2v1 even if a team mate shows up its gg because 10 second ring of fire fire fire burning everywhere gg to your team mate.
you nerfed everything else that was obviously over the top so why is ele so special its making me hate the game, even thief with head shot spam is less annoying!!
you saw how strong it was in competition and even changed the rules after it (bit obvious why)
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What really needs to happen is for the water and arcane lines to get hefty nerfs and the ele weapon skills compensated with more innate defense so elementalists can survive with such low base stats without going for builds that are 90% defense.
this is just no.. then you get the same junk you have now and will be able to dish out even more damage because you would just go all offense with all your defense on weapons
you don’t see it in higher ranks because people are actually doing what they are supposed to.
the only times i comment in this way is if im the only one holding a point with 2+ people on me and i watch my team flop about off point and capture nothing. there is nothing more frustrating then when your team doesnt call or attack targets and doesn’t fight on or even try to hold points. and lets not forget that solo guy that keeps going to far and full cap it and stay there…..
no icd on blind is just no. that is basically an immunity to everything even auto attacks when you pump out your burns and burn on hit shield and and and and and etc….
only because it’s actually how ele players think =\
Please don’t generalize like that. I defend that burning stacks need to be reduced in all fire dagger dagger skills.
What I see as an exageration is arguments that revolve as an circular aoe that fills all point are OP, because we have had them for ages now, wells say Hi, Meteor Storm says Hi etc…
If someone enters a well he knows he’s gonna get hurt same with ring of fire.
What I think needs to be discussed is the amount of burning stacks being too high for the cooldown the skill has, not the fact that it covers the point or is round. Bugs should also be removed from ring of fire, true ele players want their class to be balanced so we don’t get dulled and lower our abilities by playing something that is OP.
And this is what the majority of eles think.
the other skills you quoted all have large cooldowns rof is 10 seconds not 30+ they also do not hit like a truck when cast to up to 5 targets or even single
only because it’s actually how ele players think =\
if it is a joke then why would you ever play it even with blind on burn? just remove it and it wont make any difference anyway if that is the case.
how does blind on burn stop conditions melting the ele? all it does is randomly block skills to kitten over your opponent wit 0 input from you and many many sources at your disposal to proc it that are not tied to utility but on your weapons with low cd’s and even just for swapping attunements “weapon swapping” . its a terrible trait and whoever thought it up should be ashamed of themselves and play on the receiving end of the junk.
You are forgetting the passive procs from the trait lines. Also, aside from the shatter spike the Mesmer has sustained damage and more utility.
I was taking traits into consideration. How can you not? The point is a thief doesn’t have to worry about his single attack being divided into 4 smaller attacks, or put up 3 illusions in the first place. Nor can you proc air and fire sigils on shatters. As for sustain, an evade thief has on demand dodges, which no other class can boast.
- nah thief just has to worry to not get interrupted while gaining stealth, not get killed while trying to get behind the target and actually land backstab before stealth runs out… oh and let’s completely ignore the fact that shatter is aoe and bs is single target dmg
- you CAN proc air/fire with shatter, please don’t lie for the sake of argument
- thief with evades doesn’t have backstab…. unless they run sd/dp which is rather worthless to his team due to lack of sb support.. not to mention they would have to run acro trait line thus either dropping SA or DA which are pretty mucn mandatory atm
also evade is not sustain, you can avoid some dmg yes, but evade doesn’t give any dmg mitigation nor heals
no it just puts your enemy’s useful/defensive skills on behind a cd wall while you can still use all your junk on them with no cd.. just a global 15 second recharge for everything and an auto attack that deals heaps of damage. thats what evades get you
why should you get more defense on a glass cannon? glass cannon is risk vs reward.. you can do extreme damage and in turn you should be able to be taken down faster then tanky specs… blind should never be a passive it is too strong for that
ring of fire is not fine! if rof is fine then put necro wells on a 10 second cd please standing outside the ring gives the ele the point, standing inside the ring and not moving or you get burn stacks is as good as going nuke me please, here i will shut my eyes as the ele happily runs around you out of harms way. its too much for a 10 second cd. not to mention it has 0 icd for application of burns >.<
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thanks for the suggestions i try to stay out of staff for as long as i can against guards now. its not easy =C the guard i was fighting just spammed away with its spin to win combo etc forcing me into staff then when i changed to dagger boom goes the burn bomb with blinds shelter aegis and the heal -.- etc..
it should at least cleanse the condis even if it doesn’t send them for gods sake
as for the blinds not preventing transfers, why do i get “missed” when i try to transfer to a stationary target even a clone when im loaded up with condis way past the skills limits. it doesn’t always happen but its enough for me to notice.
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tldr
i play ele and i dont want my burning stacks ruined its too good and i dont want to have to think about the best time to use them because spamming is my life 10 second recharge denial of point or stand in one spot to be nuked is skilled play………….
on a serious note.. the rate burning can be applied did not get adjusted with the increase of stacks.. it needs to be looked at. i should not be able to get 20 stacks of burning on me on purpose and chuck them on your team mate, in turn you should not be able to shove 20+ stacks of burning on me in an instant (guards eles constant aplication engies) its stronger than any other condition and it is also one of the quickest to stack up! with many skills having low recharge times
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I am all for a PU nerf.
But you can’t really say it makes that big of an impact in conquest style game modes.
There are much better traits for that.
You don’t really see PU outside of hotjoin and wvwPU has a pretty big impact in conquest – sure, it’s not as vital as Dom or Dueling for direct combat power, but stealthing while rotating, which forces opponents out of position (because whichever way they choose, you choose the other to make their choice wrong) is a really powerful tool for winning matches. Plus, it makes it much easier to engage out of stealth with those melee range bursts.
Now, in WvW it’s a legitimately overpowered trait – and the combination with Chronomancer is downright abusive. Until that drops though I wouldn’t say its power in conquest alone warrants some sort of emergency nerf.
The Pledge bug is a much bigger deal for conquest – 1.5s per tick instead of 1.5% per tick is kind of a big difference.
To be honest if anyone visits the Mesmer forums you’ll see a lot of people whining about PU and a lot of mesmer players showing, with maths, that the problem in WvW is mostly down to the torch trait the pledge.
Another thing people forget to mention when they talk about PU is mesmer lost all clone death traits which has a 2 fold effect.
- There’s no punishment for killing clones.
- Mesmers used to be able to disengage (certainly in WvW) better because the opponent would be crippled for a fair amount of time without cleanses.
When you factor that in the PU buff isn’t so bad and the boons aren’t exactly reliable, it’s luck if you get aegis.
i can go nuts on clones all day, the mesmer can produce them faster then you can kill them and you are doing exactly what the mesmer wants you to do, stand next to the clones so it can shatter them. here is an example
i can put down 2 wells and the clones are still standing after this.. with more being pumped out at the same time, it takes a full life transfer to take out the clones, (as if the mesmer is going to let that happen) this is on my tanky build with 2k power 3k defence and bloodlust with 45% crit chance.
if i go full zerker may as well just afk its a free feed for the mesmer
of all the nerfs they didn’t change the actual problem.. 100% stun chance no matter what, its so stupid
why bother giving them an after cast at all… you changed it for the necro and ele so why is mesmer so special? if anything theirs is more obnoxious seeing as it actually does decent damage even mind stab.. the damage hits first then they stow the after cast so why is it even there?
be fair, change it for everyone not just a select few. its not fun being on the receiving end of this full well knowing they souldn’t be dishing out the damage that they are.
so.. when i fight guards it usually goes like this shove everything they have on me then pop shields and watch me melt before they wear off. transfers don’t work when a guard is blocking/ invulnerable or at least they do not work for me. now the problem here is transfers are necros version of cleanses,
i am finding myself loaded with condis in fights only to be denied cleansing them because everyone seems to have an immunity or block going when they shove them on me! not to mention blinds preventing transfers when you have more condis then what the transfer can send.
i have no idea how ele prevents me sending them back but they do if you know what skill they are using and what it looks like please tell me what to look for
what do you guys do in this situation or better yet how do you prevent it especially with plague pulling burns onto me from team mates >.<
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the problem is reaper traitline makes the shroud not worth taking! either they need to buff gs greatly and make it something to fear and almost a must have for necro aswell as make chill viable again,
with the chill and movement changes reaper has no way to stay on target, everyone just leaps away or has some stupid mechanic to cleanse it passively same with cripple
i would rather them delete the trait line and just give us the shroud as our specialisation
how is on demand stun/interrupt not the problem? im just a beginner at mesmer and this alone even without the trait causes the other professions so many problems..
oh is that your heal pop…
oh you want to hit me with that big hitting skill pop….
im bored poke, stealth, watch them cast a defensive skill pop shatter …..
there are other skills that go with these other then cs you know
blind blocks condi transfers thanks to the now added rng…
i thought thief was bad but throw mesmer guard ele into the mix and thats all i see!!!!! blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind blind
its not even skilled blind its random all a thief needs to do is daze me with pistol shove a blind on me and auto me till i die if there is something i can do as a necro please tell me when as soon as he sees me try cast something i get stunned again.
mesmers……………………… do i need to say anything about the junk you gave them
guards always been a pain but at least i can get away from it
and eles just random procs followed by massive burst so i cant defend against it other then dodge and try land an auto.
thats 4 of the most used classes in pvp.. the fights are not fun atm its just frustrating baiting a dodge or waiting for a rare opportunity to get them back then pop blind “missed” flipping kittens…….. (rage keyboard thrown closes game)
reduce blind on all classes or make it even for everyone for gods sake put blind on all signets and wells that seems fair or how bout pulsing random blind while in deathshroud seems on par the way things are atm
transfers do not work it blocks my mark it blocks my dagger, even plague is failing me sometimes! its just too common now. and even if i land one its right back on me again =C blind is better then aegis right now
its anoying in a 1v1 situation but in team fights if you cant range or dont have immunity have fun in team battles with this bunch
if its just me please tell me how to deal with this i would love to know call me a noob do what ever you want but its just bugging me so much for now back to mesmer training..
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