and if the engie spreads his turrets out then what? most of the time they put them on clifs and areas out of reach. I play necro and even if I pop everything I have its not enough to kill the engie especially if they still take a kit.. usually the one with shield
don’t get me wrong I do los but his friends are free to pull us into view and attack us so..
Then you put yourself into a position where it’s a 1 vs 2/3 with his friends.
Don’t. Stick with the rest of your team, don’t travel alone. You’re a necromancer. It should be common practice.
I won’t suggest anything else because you’ll just throw out reasons why you can’t do it and why this spec is overpowered when it’s not. I’ve tried with this, really.
Expect L2P responses from here on out.
never said I was alone
and if the engie spreads his turrets out then what? most of the time they put them on clifs and areas out of reach. I play necro and even if I pop everything I have its not enough to kill the engie especially if they still take a kit.. usually the one with shield
don’t get me wrong I do los but his friends are free to pull us into view and attack us so..
how do you out rotate and then kill 2 good turret engies when one is on home one is on mid and they have 3 people that float between the 2 even the engie at home may come to mid to offer even more cc support with plenty of time to run back with friends if someone starts killing turrets
so please answer this. none of this get gud l2p stuff I just want a legit answer please and remember this is not a 1v1 game its a 5v5 game…
the most common answer I see it kill the turrets… I do always target the rocket first but the problem is…. their team is getting healing burning immob still and then just to add insult to injury in comes supply crate
now picture this with 2 eles and a necro in this cluster kitten
Turrets aren’t auto win, palador… Those who think they are, are the baddies themselves. You got 2 types of turret gardens. Either they’re clustered together, the opponent just needs to fight aoe heavy (most classes have tools for that) and the turrets will be dropping 1 by 1, all the meantime you just need to ensure the “weak” engi himself can’t put any decent CC.
Or the engi spreads his turrets around, all one has to do is be patient and attack with ranged, attacks, take out the rocket, while remaining outside the fire range of rifle/flame. Once rocket’s gone, kill the engi, flame is little range and rifle doesn’t do much damage.
Either way, a turret engi is easy to beat if you use your brain, and if you’re not built to fight whatever garden he has, just walk away, and he can’t kill you on the chase, because his dps is stuck rooted!
in a game that relies heavily on capturing and holding points everything you said is the problem………… yes you can kill an engie if you are playing either a specific class aka rangers or Mesmer because they can reach the engies turrets without being hit by them, and even if every class had some 1200 range heavy hitting weapon of which they do not, it still takes way too long to down the turrets thanks to the fact they cant be crit cant be conditioned, have high health and heal themselves! it all takes too long giving time for help to arrive
oh and people always seem to talk about this situation like its a 1v1 server we are playing on. the engie usually has a team mate who will be beating you to a pulp during this time and if you bring a friend the healing and cover the turrets provide give them the upper hand so…
just go where the engie isn’t you say…. ok what happens if there is 2 of them one on home one on mid now that?
(edited by ozzy.8059)
that’s all very well and good against one person… when you start to up that number deathshroud gets less and less desirable, that 10 seconds against one guy is about 2 seconds against a coordinated team, where as an engie popping gear shield can stand in a 100 man zerg and be fine.
also ds takes away all stun breaks condi clears healing and your normal skills. depending on your build going into ds can be a significant dps loss. you are basically a sitting duck
I am also lagging people randomly start teleporting around and skills that to me I evaded are still hitting mid dodge..
you know how to make things right? make it so you cant have double classes… 5 spots 8 professions
I feel like this is exaggerated. Turrets heal 5% of their hp/3 sec. They heal about 420 hp (for the tougher ones, like 350 for the weaker ones). That’s like 8400 hp, maybe 10k by time you could kill one. That’s not that long. I mean the alternative is, you blink in and 2 shot all his turrets and he’s totally screwed. Is that the goal here or??? Turrets are a “bunker down” build. They need to sustain some sort of damage or they’d be pointless.
And no, that wouldn’t be a good thing. Build diversity is great and AI can add a unique level of awareness to the game, sorry your glass burst builds have a counter measure.
if turrets are a “bunker down build” and you think its fair then please remove crits and condis from my necros minions because they are meant to be our “bunker down build” what do you have to say about that?
well… a condi necro is free food against a smart thief.. they have blind on demand and blind used right will nullify all the fear procs combine that with the amount of dodges they have and teleports if a thief is getting feared its a bad thief. not to mention they have all the condi clears they need…
there is a post on the thief forum where thief users themselves are saying condi necro is the easiest thing to kill, see if I can find it
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/sd-thief-how-to-kill
(edited by ozzy.8059)
what is this blasphemy? speaking of sustain on the necro forums my god..
all a necro needs is stability or healing in death shroud and it would be ok .. or reverse all the nerfs made to it because of dhuumfire before they turned it into a space filler
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Chill kills. Necromancers have ample sources of chill. Do not rely on one source.
thanks for trying but to get ample sources of chill it usually means traiting blinds for it and then its only 1 second per blind that a nero does not have much of or using focus.. with a 1,1/4 cast time or getting you to 50% health to proc spinal shivers if that trait is taken
and good luck to you doing that against a decent thief…
yes there is a hint of emotion attached to this post but the point still stands.. necro has no other instant condi removals /transfers, dagger and staff both rely on opponent stupidity and dumb luck to hit after you are feared. Most thief specs I do not have a problem with in a 1v1 situation as long as I have most of my skills off cd when they show up its when there is a group fight that the problem arises
a thief and warrior for example can easily keep me feared till I die as they run behind me happily swinging away. its either take 2 stun breaks that only put me at a disadvantage because unlike other professions stun breaks ours does not give any fancy side effects like stealth/teleport/invuln/clone etc.. just here is some protection… or in signets case nothing if I am not getting killed by conditions so yeah.. if it could transfer fear in this situation I could at least disrupt what is going on and survive a bit longer instead of just oh… they got me what a shame.
basically make minions walking turrets… im in if turrets can be this hard to kill then so should minions fair is fair
title says it all.. why shouldn’t I be able to transfer 5 seconds of fear to a thief if he is stupid enough to f1 fear me while its up, every time I fight one its the same thing with no consequences to them. why shouldn’t I be able to fear that terormancer when he condi bombs me and tries to fear chain me..
why cant I take risk vs reward and chuck fear me back at that warrior when he pops it right in the middle of a fight.
basically fear is a condi plague transfers condis im sure its possible even if its also a stun breaker..
well killing the rocket turret does make a difference if the engie is stupid and puts it in a place you can reach and doesn’t take healing turrets but if he doesn’t match those qualities then they can easily stall you till help arrives without lifting a finger… and yes just go 5v4 the other two points that usually end up being far and mid until V
2 turret engies with a brain enter the picture its even more fun especially when they decide to be mobile and they cap a point one leaves his turrets to stall/damage you and go to another point to cc the crowd to death and still make it back in time to crate you.
but hey any class that takes 2 people to down fast enough is fine apparently or you must take some weird build only for engies that gets stomped by anything else yay…
you know the counter to minions in a 1v1? kill the minions they cant heal themselves are not immune to crits or condis .. or run around in a big circle till they get confused always works for me the necro cant do much about it if you are a more mobile class
(edited by ozzy.8059)
wow eu servers have a massive problem in pvp.. nobody communicates its a slower paced game bunkers and more bunkers. always at least one engie on each team usually playing turrets and then when you try make your team play around it they ignore you and keep running right into it >.>
play turret engie LOL afk and you can still be usefull to the team
title says it all my guy is currently us but I just want to see what its like in eu because whats 25 bucks for a little bit of fun and exploring =p?
looking to build this guy to pvp and wvw 90% of the time pve can die…
did not really know where else to post this =|
recently (1month+) I have been having a lot of targeting issues. in a game I just had I was trying to target a thief who was going 22222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222 up against me and I managed to instead target a Mesmer clone/a rangers pet/and finally before I died a rock dog that was 2 levels below me through a wall!!!
it keeps targeting pets and clones before it targets the real people even if I am right next to them rubbing my face into their weapon!!! if my target gets disengaged during a fight usually from someone using stealth on allies or themselves and I am forced to try click on them manually (not the easiest task when the target is moving resulting in the cursor dragging the screen instead) I never had these problems before.
is anyone else experiencing this?
well necro seems to be the only class with a weakness now … classes that are meant to be vulnerable to conditions have all been given decent condi removal and some classes have no weaknesses…. others have such extreme mechanics to get around their weakness they may as well not have one once you learn how to abuse them
necro…… nothing you can make yourself pointless and do barely any damage for 3s of stability that has an impractical activation mechanic tied to a source that isn’t always there and reduces your damage or your survivability. that’s it
I do not understand what you are trying to say with that ^^^^^
well with that point of view then you should be all for putting stability on the locust signet, then a necro completely wastes a utility slot that could be used to kill the enemy or protect its self, seeing as their team will be giving them stability and swiftness anyway so it will make it easier for you to kill him. I am still failing to see why you are so against this.
and as for positioning on the slowest moving class are you suggesting I just stand at range with a staff and go pew pew pew yay im helping…. because I do run around and watch out for the big hits but 2 dodges with no vigour can only get you so far
what other class do you see the sentence “your team needs to build around the necro to make it work”
I have tried every class but ranger now and find a necro the easiest class to kill… on all of them. even a non turret engie build and especially when im on my necro because I know what im doing. I can beat most classes and builds on my most recent build 1v1 through timing awareness and a lot of effort forcing them to make mistakes.
the only builds im am having trouble with are pu Mesmer dd ele and condi thief the ele can be win or lose depends if my chill hits at the right time and they don’t have a chance to block it
I use dd and axe focus I have spectral grasp spectral armour and either plague or spite signet. that’s 2 stun breaks, the second I am up against a competent group of people I get hammered with stuns and not all at once they wait till the first is over then apply the next and the next and so on, I have actually popped a stun breaker while spamming dodge and still not been able to avoid it (immob has already been cleansed)
I have tried team based necros with wells and staff aoe etc but it makes no difference what you run the outcome is always the same. if I can wait 8 seconds against a hambow for his invulnerability to wear off and still win without corrupt boon then why cant you wait 4-5 seconds to blow all of your cc’s on me and kill me after? heaven forbid you actually need to think against a necro.
(edited by ozzy.8059)
fyi stun breakers do nothing in a group situation without a way to get out of it that’s why stun breakers work on the other professions they pop it and it can have the dual effect of concealing them or teleporting them or making them invulnerable if it doesn’t then they can just jump, teleport, use a leap and it gets you away from the problem area
when a necro uses a stun break he is still standing in the same spot that has multiple people smashing it with cc it is basically a light armour class that is forced into being a heavy melee class,
if you didn’t notice the trend with stability. warrior (melee class close quarters combat) guardian (melee class, close quarters combat) necro (range class that cant stay at range due to every ones mobility thus turning it into a forced melee themed class of close quarters combat)
zero sacrifice?….. so the loss of a utility that actually does damage or lowers damage taken for pure speed or stability on a massive cooldown that probably wont be used more then once per fight is zero sacrifice?
ok what ever lol!
why bother they don’t?
quite simple…
dodge dodge duelist pistol 5 illusionary leap switch to staff dodge chaos shield chaos storm 123 stealth teleport hide 1111111 change pop duelist pop illusionary leap stun them with signet mindwrack use illusionary leap blurred frenzy gf have fun good luck being prevented from doing this -.- so cheese
BF is one skill – plenty of other skills that can cause you to eat retal damage.
Multi-hit attacks are where retaliation truly shines. If you nerf it here, warriors will want it nerfed for 100-blades and thieves for Unload. Again, Retaliation would lose its meaning as a countermeasure.
I would agree with you if we had other forms of being useful against blobs, but sadly mesmer has to rely on immunty’s and evades. Not like warrior who can facetank everything with 30k hp, massive armor and good stability upkeep. Then also, 100b hits much harder, hits slower to easier to react to the damage and as mentioned before, is not a requirement to cast to bomb with the melee.
As for unload, thats a single target skill. You don’t get affected by multiple retal damage.As for those who say I can’t look at if they have retal on or not; in an environment with 25v50, you’re not gonna check every person if they have retaliation on or not cause 90% will have it on, especially melee. If there would be other ways of applying reasonable amount of damage against blobs i’d love to hear it.
I can kill someone who facetanks me on a warrior I cant kill someone who evades my attacks constantly and hides in stealth*while still being able to cast damaging skills(weapon phantasms)* so please send all the non stealth abuse classes at me.. they are actually fair! at least thief needs to get near me.
if its a l2p issue please tell me how to track down a Mesmer who unloads all their clones from range then pops stealth the second I get near them teleports and resets constantly combine this with chaos shield and storm and the clone spam from the staff forcing me to hit their clones I would love to hear it
ps im not on a warrior so I cant just go kitten hammer stun lockdown yay I winsies….
because I know people will complain about my post have fun on your mesmer
(edited by ozzy.8059)
I would say thief IF he has a friend….. they are fine alone (ignoring one particularly bs build…) but in no other circumstance do I die faster in a 2v1 or even a 2v2 then when there is a thief mindlessly spamming blinds on me or just happily sticking to me like glue going 2222222. once they have a team they become ridiculous and I think this is where a lot of the spvp thief hate comes from
please read the title and stop derailing the thread…. this is not about pve or wvw this is spvp and lack of stability thank you
I would be all for lowering your dps in favour of giving you more utility… your auto attack is almost as annoying as thieves in spvp against non heavies -.-, hell I would be happy if they nurfed your auto attack to the ground but beefed up your other skills damage wise, at least they can be avoided from actual skilful play. Nothing more annoying then 2k damage constantly from 1k range away when you are not a warrior and close that in 1 second
I don’t call aoe spray and pray counterplay… that just relies on youre opponent being a bit dim… not to mention having an aoe skill that can actually do some decent damage
I don’t call spam 1 on youre highest hitting cleave melee weapon and hope they walk into it counterplay
I don’t call count to 3 and dodge and hope they actually waited that long counterplay against attacks from stealth its just dumb luck…
couple that with evades up the a…. and extremely hard hits there is nothing you can do but get lucky or die eventually, because even if the first attack fails there is always 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 or eventually until all your survival mechanics are on cooldown then its just a free kill ….
you have been given too many heals and too much condi clear… I can smash you with condis on a necro and you just pop out of stealth after with nothing left ticking.. that’s if I actually land a hit after all the evades attached to your weapon skills and vigour and normal dodges. -.- combine that further with using stealth as a way to remove a target almost constantly forcing your opponent to try click you or waste time pressing target (if nobody else is around this works-.-) it just becomes ridiculous..
im not saying its impossible to kill a thief but usually it relies on the thief making a mistake and that’s it
they seem to have way too frequent access to water atonement that can be used to its full potential no matter the build, unlike healing turret =C I chill them and condi them up they instantly cleanse it every single time combine that with immunity and large amounts of cc I am stuck
I have figured out how to deal with warrior guard necro (if its not terrormancer…. then I need to take an elixir), thief, ranger is iffy its only if I sneak up on them otherwise its death by well… range and stealth =|
but dd ele omg/!@# they get out of my net turret easily its basically not there -.- they cancel most of my attacks by just darting through me constantly with skills that have no tell… I just don’t know what to do
hints and tips would be welcome
wow you make a thread for this but don’t sticky it to the front page for all to see… just hope it vanishes.
I wish I just pumped out every class at lvl 80 now before I started to actually play the game…………… I would be fine with the gold, I can see they are trying to be greedy and make money but the trait points are unfair that is the part forcing anyone who didn’t make all lvl 80s before the update to (cringe) do world exploration (dies)
the problem is its forcing people to play a way they do not want to play I HATE WORLD EXPLORATION I HAVE DONE IT ALREADY once you do it once why do it again and again and again and again and again and again getting skillpoints = world exploration,grinding,extreme boredome
I see nobody reads these days……………….. you keep saying there are plenty of skillpoints in the world and champ bags drop them but the problem is that will take weeks/months to do it is extremely time consuming and not to mention BORING all the people that just go (herp kitten go doosies the championses durr plenties of skillpointies to collecties in the worldie kitten…. ) delete your lvl 80s and start again under the new system please
also you cant buy skillpoints or I would
No, this change was put in so players are forced to participate or pay to choose traits, since they got rid off the gem store reset and no longer charge for doing a respec on your traits. If you choose to level in one zone running the same content continuously they you can pay for your traits. Otherwise go out and explore Tyria and do the content the devs created to acquire the traits you want.
So no fully leveled and traited out character via crafting anymore for free.
delete all your lvl 80s made under the old system and start again then come back to this thread
thats fine and all now unlock all traits and do that 8 times >.<
well now im royally stuffed.. I was looking forward to playing my engie =C
You can use boldface and italics to emphasize parts of your text
meh…
I caps because many people take things with a grain of salt and look over major points from your comment you must have noticed the parts in caps thus it worked
It’s fun for me. Deleted my old Necromancer to restart another from the beginning just to experience everything as a “new” player. It simply forces you to explore traits you perhaps didn’t consider using in the past, given the way you slowly acquire them. You can always buy them, true, but my goal is to get them all by hunting them down. I also noticed I didn’t “need” any specific traits to survive or do well (ironically has been among the most smoothest leveling experiences among all my characters, but then again I am also more experienced by now, and Necromancer survives well, IMHO-also the required Dungeon Story modes seem so much easier now.) I can only see this being a problem for those who can’t be bothered to do some of the more annoying requirements and/or would be bothered repeating the same for all their other characters, but that’s why we get the choice to acquire all of them with books (I wouldn’t recommend doing this for most players, and especially new players.) I have not had any bad experience other than being “forced” to do the Obsidian Sanctum puzzle, but I got it out of the way without a Mesmer cheat a few days back (a friendly enemy helped, but I didn’t fall too much as is my wont.)
I also feel that the Edge of the Mists requirements need a bit of luck to get them, as in being there at the right time. While you can easily befriend Hyleks/Ogres/Dredge on Eternal Battlegrounds even solo, the others require your groups force to go conquer 3 specific places which they may have already conquered or have no necessary inclination (or power) to do so.
I also agree that some of the requirements do need some revising, even if they were well-intentioned. But it’s not nearly as bad for me as it is for some people (this is my 8th character, and all the others have all traits.)
I vehemently disagree that this change is “bad” for new players. They are innocent, and know no better. With their second and third character, maybe if they dislike some of the content (by then hopefully they can buy the traits they wish.) And this would be a non-issue had it been the system from the beginning.
Still level 77, and haven’t bought a single trait manual, but my concluding comments is that leveling so far has been a)easier, not harder, b)helped by the megaserver, and c)quite a bit of fun as you complete every step towards your next trait. I don’t think that with the way the game works today you will miss most of the traits that much. The only problem I see is that experimenting will be a bit limited until you get a high enough amount of traits and until level 80, but a good consequence of this is that you will be “forced” to use some traits that you may have otherwise skipped over, since you may not get all of the ones you want right away. Also, to be fair players have way more freedom to experiment once at 80 anyway, even with the old system.
You will be surprised at how different humans can be from each other-it is futile to expect that everybody must think the way we do.
I’m not saying everyone shares my point of view and I never did, this is just how I feel and how some others that I know feel
you may enjoy it but how long did it take you?. to me it means nothing just that I had less of a life and stayed indoors for a longer time to get to 80.
what I once could get done in a day and then get back to things now will take weeks/months to complete that’s time I cant play with my guild in wvw because my character is useless, that’s time I cant do a dungeon if I want to because my character is useless
again I will say what attracted me to gw2 was that you could skip the months of grind for the end product and enjoy the game, now it is no different to everything else
and yes I can get skill points from champ trains and exploring but guess what… THATS GRINDING AND BORING the entire reason this new system is bad and ruined all the fun… the skill points you gain from levelling are only enough to buy the utilities you need or a fraction of the skills.
you cant buy skillpoints
im sorry but you say imagine the new trait system from the eyes of a new player… how about this. imagine the old trait system from the eyes of a new player which I was 5 months ago!!!!!!! I liked getting a level and just unlocking a variety of traits. I just came from a game that was grind grind do this or gtfo.
the entire reason I started gw2 was because I could just jump in skip the low lever things and go straight to max lvl and then enjoy myself without having to struggle now its just as bad as any mmo out there……….
I have already explored the map and finished the living story on one character, now I just want to try all the other professions and have fun. not slave away for hours making money and tediously gathering skillpoints, I DONT HAVE TIME FOR THAT KITTEN I am here for the parts of the game I find fun not to sit here smashing my head against the keyboard slowly walking around the world waiting for that one event to happen or find all the skillpoints just for traits (keep in mind utilities cost skillpoints too)
there was NOTHING stopping you from exploring and using the map to lvl your character before the change but now the people who hate that are FORCED into your gaming style