Guild Wars 2

What’s clear is that Warrior needs a scrub to bring back some trait line synergy. They intentionally scattered things all over to dismantle Hambow and still have some strange choices. What you outline here is certainly better than the as-is state. There may be times where the trade-offs on trait selection are tougher choices than desired. Right now, for ex, you can get some pretty good YOLO by combining the crits in Arms with the raw damage of Strength. I’m on board in general, but I like having parallel paths in the same trait line that focus on different things (like condi vs direct damage). So the part about 1 trait line being condi and another being direct is less appealing. Perhaps if you had the condi damage in one trait line, but then some complimentary condis in another (CC in Tactics, for ex) it would be even more appealing.

Regrettably, I had to shelf my Warrior. Scrapper does everything I want on Warrior, only better – with some tricks up my sleeve now, too.

Over all, I think Berserker is underwhelming, but for reasons other than the torch. I think Flames of War is great as is – including the CD. Good damage, removes 2 condis, and is a roaming fire field. What’s not to like?! Blaze Breaker, on the other hand, needs an interrupt of some sort. I like Choppy’s idea of a short knockdown instead of a cripple, but maybe a daze would do, too.

I was trying to rock an Arms/Discipline/Berserk Condi build in WvW, but now it’s time to reroll : (

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

What it is, is that these cry baby warriors have played face roll easy mode for so long, that now that they actually have to think, it feels like warrior is in a bad spot.

Why don’t you show us how it’s done? Go ahead and post a video of yourself playing Warrior. Until then, go back to whining about your Thief class.

It goes beyond restricted choices for traits and adrenaline management. There’s so many things that a Warrior is “not allowed” to have:
- Protection
- Aegis
- Evades
- Stealth
- Non-telegraphed big attacks
- Boon stripping
- Condi conversion
- Blind spam
- Portals
- Anything “tricky”

And actually, I’m ok with all the above IF there’s some compensation elsewhere. There isn’t. Burst is our class mechanic; but it’s not like we do that better than any number of other classes.
We have group Might stacking. Yay! Drag the ball ‘n chain Warrior around for the buffs. And I’m so tired of hearing hvy armor/high hlth pool retorts. In the context of TOTAL DEFENSE (including all forms of damage mitigation/avoidance: Aegis, Protection, Stealth, Blinds, Blocks, Dodges, Evades, etc.), Warrior isn’t even average.

It sort of reminds me of a time years ago when I played WoW and a fellow Paladin wore a dress to a raid because it gave her the best healing setup. And I thought, “What a sad state of our class.”
Warrior feels like that now.
Things changed then; maybe they will soon for us.

Does staff #4 remove condis from the revenant, too? (I didn’t get a chance to try it)

- I love Head Butt – very fun / fair
- Torch skill #5 is awesome – 2 condi cleanse + mobile fire field = fun + useful
- Good change on bumping up Last Blaze duration
- Utilities feel underwhelming (except Shattering Blow)
- I wish B mode had longer duration (go ahead and increase CD to match), but the hokey pokey aspect is distracting
- Adrenal Health needs a revamp (doesn’t work well w/ B mode)
- Torch should be added to Dual Wield, for some much-needed synergy
- Fast Hands should be baseline

Yeah, I think Shield Bash is ~300.

I don’t mind that Druids have a big healing capability; but I am bummed that it’s the sole focus of the spec. For ex., there should have been a summon skill of some kind. Either a temporary 2nd pet or something like the warhorn #4 skill as a utility, but with a swarm of bees or something (applying confusion and poison).

Thanks Devs!! This is a great, refreshing, and much needed buff!

Thank you, Dulfy!

Yup, it needs to linger just a little longer.

starlinvf.1358:

Believe it or not…. Warriors are Tanks. They are the primary front line class, and made to take a beating. The reason Guard wins (despite being designed as a support class) is that their active defenses and Aeigs sharing are insanely powerful in the game’s meta.

The thing that really hurts the Warrior as a front liner is their weak ability to deal with incoming conditions. Incoming Damage is rarely an issue for them, but the soft CCs wreak havoc on them if too many get stacked.

Warriors can’t tank – not the way it is in just about any other game. The difference between hvy armor and med armor is a measly 150 or so. HS used to be best in class heal; it’s not any more. After this last major patch, some of the heals that got a classification are better at healing when traited than HS. Warriors still don’t have ready access to Protection, either. Warriors have always had the largest health pool, but that only goes so far. Face-tanking won’t really allow a Warrior to take much of a beating and their passive tankiness isn’t that much better than other classes.
In this game, as you point out, Active Defense >> Passive Defense.
And when considering active defenses (Aegis, Evades, Stealth, Blinds, Weakness, etc.), Warriors are WAY BEHIND other classes.
Being top tank class in a game designed not to have tanks is a hollow victory.

… Sounds silly

I think (hope) Quark was making an historical reference to the pre-CDI state of the Ranger, which was rather bleak. Condi Ranger was awesome before the recent patch, and got a net buff with the patch (but not to Mesmer levels). SB/A&T, SB/A&D, and A&D/S&T w/ NM, WS, BM trait lines are all viable and fun.

Except Rampage, which is a bit over-the-top, if you don’t like playing the support role, the Warrior is not in a good spot. Adrenaline goes away too quickly; Tactics minors are the worst in game; several weapons are left for dead; Arms should have been designed more flexibly to not be the condi line only; MH & BM should not be conflicting; some silly nerfs to things that didn’t need it: banners, War Horn, etc.

They did some nice things, too (shield spec, tried to give mace some new traits, BP not penalizing Adrenaline use (but don’t like the “on hit” part), HS having something useful on the active, combining Mobile Strikes with Warrior Sprint, GS trait, etc.

But they should have done more to promote build diversity. It’s still a Fast Hands, Cleansing Ire, Healing Signet world.

Capito.2046:

Heya ! well I was thinking about such a build but that what I m running now in WvW and I can tell you, I m kinda OP ;D take a look at this build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAT8cj8cQlH25BueAnIGWCqLAigZWjiivJya4G6BA-TViAABufBAg+gAAwDAoRlgHqboMlfkq+DIHBgB3fIAACwMnZysMDGv4Fv4Fv4ZmzcmzcmzsUASr2C-w

Apothecary!? I gotta say, I never considered it. Interesting.

Thuggernaut.1250:

I think your second build is better… I don’t see much of a point going for tactics/vigorous shouts when you only use one shout and no trooper runes. So the second build is superior imo because you go into defense.

Between Krait or Aristocracy is a hard call, especially for WvW, because even in small battles, most of your condi damage will come from burning from the longbow. Mainhand sword stacks nice bleeding if you land a Flurry, but I think most of your condi damage will come from good old Combustive Shot/Fan of Fire. Tough call, but I think Aristocracy wins out.

In the past, I had a lot of fun with Leg Specialist (and you didn’t have to go all-in on Tactics to get it). Shout GM for 1 util (with other decent alternative to pick from) doesn’t knock my socks off, either. I’m having a hard time figuring out how good Burning Arrows is. Considering this build assumes lots of weapon swaps, the -CD and AA enhancements might not be as good as they seem at first.

My friend pointed out that I’m not getting full effect from the Krait runes because I would hit the +100% cap on bleed duration. Perhaps another nudge for Aristocracy. Might be Manor time!

@Choppy, yeah, I know both weapon sets are more hybrids and Sinister would certainly up my DPS. I’ll have to experiment to see how survivable I am. I often roam w/ a friend who has crazy up time on stealth, so our 2v2’s often end up as 2v1’s on me when they can’t find him.

I agree w/ Choppy. Shield is pretty sweet as-is.
I think there’s plenty of better targets for improvements – War Horn, OH Axe, OH Mace, Rifle, etc.

Before I invest in a bunch of gear, I’d like to present a few build ideas.

I’ve played a S+S/LB condi build a few months ago to moderate success, but I wanted to try a little different spin. I have moderate combat skills (Bronze) and I’m not likely to get to top tier ever.

I’m up in the air on Runes (Krait or Aristocracy) for either build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAT8ejMdQjHW5BGeAnIGmCq7ICgRWDiavHyP4EaBA-TlSHABE8AAMRdHqPIA2qDwIlfMqSQAXAAAOCAot/oZIKlgBAOA45nf+5nfuUALK3C-w

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAT8ejMdQjHW5B2dAnIGmCKMB+6C4OiAYk1go27BA-TlSHABDcQAI4BAYi6O2qDwIlfMqSQAXAAAOCAot/oZIKlgBAOA45nf+5nfuUALK3C-w

Any suggestions?

Funny. Good song!

Black Box.9312:

Pros … / Cons …

I whole-heartedly agree with every single bullet. Well said.

+20% seems right to me. It’s a situational GM trait.

Warrior own Mesmer?!? Seriously!? It’s the other way around; the Warriors say it and live it and so do the Mesmers.

Anyway, +100% stealth duration is insanely powerful. +33%, no stacking, but undo the way-back nerf and get rid of the swiftness and might from the buff list. That seems fair.

Black Box.9312:

10% is pretty lackluster for a GM trait, especially one that relies on enemies standing in a given area without having proper CC to keep them there.

+1

Should definitely go back to +20%

I agree; outside combat mobility seems like it should be a natural fit for a Ranger and yet, it’s so elusive. I think both Clarion Bond and Tail Wind should work out of combat.

I have a considerably different build, but I have the BM and WS trait lines and face the same mobility issue for WvW roaming. So far, I’ve tried the following solutions:

1) WHa1 + Resounding Timbre (RT) + a flexible 3rd WS utility
2) TU + RT + “Guard” in the 3rd Util slot
3) TU + Go for the Eyes + SotH in 3rd util slot

Each has their advantages and disadvantages. So far, I’m leaning toward option 2, but I’m far from convinced it’s the best solution.

ronpierce.2760:

So please, don’t say it got nerfed.

It got nerfed — hard!

ronpierce.2760:

But it’s way better than before…. With burst mastery, you can now use it and gain the (new stronger) on subsequent bursts and keep uptime fairly easy.

Umm … are you aware that shortly after the 6/23 patch, they changed it so that the +20% for using 3 bars of adrenaline ONLY takes effect on hit? So, within a PvP / WvW context, with opponents that actually dodge, blind, block, etc., getting the bonus is not as easy as you make it sound.

Instead of gaining blind immunity, which does seem odd, how about it just cures blind condition as it hits. Not as strong, I know, but better than it is now.

Good catch. Mine acts the way you describe. Did you submit a bug report?

They buffed ShoutBow (which nobody wanted) and not much else. They gave a try for making mace better, but it’s still an underdog. The buff to Shield Master is a nice touch. And they finally reworked Berserker’s Power so it encourages instead of penalizes Burst use. I like the buff to Signet Mastery, too, but few non-condi builds will take Arms. But as far as build diversity goes, it’s still a Fast Hands (Discipline), CI (Defense), Healing Signet, Bow-wielding Warrior world : /

Honestly, of the 3 classes I care about (Ranger, Warrior, Guardian), Ranger has the most to look forward to. I thought I was going to run my condi ranger as WS, NM, and BM trait lines. I love the NM line with a buffed Evasive Purity and that sweet Protective Ward. But wait! Look at the Skirm line … Sharpened Edges-Hidden Barbs-Quick Draw is too good! Gotta take it! And then TU gets categorized as a WS trait! Wahoo! But wait! If I take WHa1 and trait shout, I solve my mobility issue. Too many good choices.
In contrast, the Warrior forums, for ex, are rather upset that they buffed the Monk ShoutBow spec and almost nothing else. Oh yeah, remember when everyone hated Healing Signet? Guess what? Both a traited TU and WHa1 out-heals it!! We have a lot to be thankful for.

GreyWraith.8394:

I’m also curious about how/if the 30% boon duration (or condi duration) we are losing from trait lines will be made up in base stats or if we will need gear to make up the difference. A lot of professions stand to lose there, but not much QQ about it yet.

I think it’s all about expectations. I expected it to be gone and … well … it is. Considering they do have a few places where they left some in (+20% Boon duration in Nature Magic line of Ranger, for ex.), I’m pretty sure it’s intentional. If you don’t have it now, you won’t have it come Tues.

The Devs were very wise here. Shelter is a well-loved skill by most Guardians AND not complained about by other classes. When you hit that kind of sweet spot – leave it alone! And they did.

Choppy.4183:

Josh Davis.6015:

Sorry, I must have accidentally replied to this thread.

Let me know if anyone wants to converse in a civil manner.

Appreciate you taking the time to update us, Josh. Some people are a bit overwrought about some of the announced changes, but I’m sure most of us recognize that more information and dialogue are vastly superior to QQ and pvf.

Absolutely! Thanks Josh for taking the time for the conversation. Please excuse some of my fellow warriors. I think they hit their Signet of Rage button a few too many times : )

Good ideas, Burr. I dismissed Powerful Synergy altogether. Nonetheless, 1 sec of burning is pretty short and giving up Discipline or Defense is a hefty price to pay.

It might be that all those cool F2 procs in the BM line trump other considerations. Owl (16s CD) might be worth a try. The pet stat buffs (base + Pack Alpha) and -20% CD on swaps might be enough to endure the EB abuse.

I keep hearing people saying longbow got buffed. Sure, they restored the range back to 1200 and increased the durations of the burning skills. But damage-wise, the increased durations do NOT make up for the the new design that 1 stack of burning is less than half the damage of 1 stack in the live version. This holds for the 700 condi damage break-even point, too (live = 503/s and new = 240/s). Sure, it stacks in intensity now. But the net effect is a burning damage nerf for Warrior. Note, for other classes, a single skill now applies 2 or 3 stacks of burning.

I wouldn’t trust the wording of that one statement too much. ANet has a history of publishing fuzzy/misleading skill descriptions. I doubt they intend to undo the on-hit part of CI that they very deliberately established not long ago. I’ll be happy to be wrong.

Pandeh.5248:

Yup and you can no longer take that trait and the inflict bleed on crit, which also has its duration nerfed..

I’m not happy with the Bloodlust nerf, either. But in the interest of accuracy, this part is not true. Bleed on crit duration base is/was 3 sec and the new proposed duration is 4 sec.

Honestly, it’s a bit of a mess. Trap Potency w/o any traps?! All those survival skills w/o SotFittest?! Heal as One is also less than ideal. But it will all change soon anyway.

Let’s get back to the OP’s suggestions … I think they’re very thoughtful and a definite improvement (diversity-wise) over the current trait line. It’s not a buff by any means (you lose the not-so-useful Thick Skin with no other compensation) and it makes Cull the Weak a consideration. Is it enough? Dunno, but it’s certainly a step in the right direction.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Empathic Bond is 3/10s = 3.33s per condition. Pet swap will be 15s (if specced into BM, which you would need to do if the trait was there) if the pet is alive and 4t5s if it is dead.
Alive pet on swap = 15s = 4.5 conditions, lets round up to 5 per swap, because…
Dead Pet on Swap = 4t5s = 13 conditions, but you still get 5 only.

If it was only 2 conditions per 15s it would be bad and if your pet is dead, it is only 2 conditions per 4t5s, so, useless. Even then, they could reduce the dead pet penalty to 30s and it would still be half the current potency of Empathic Bond. Not only that, but it would be easier for condi players to counter it, because they just need to focus your pet to either kill it or bait the swap, then they can condi bomb you for 15 or 4t5s. Maybe not even worth taking at 5 conditions per swap.

5 condi clear per swap is OP. EB is powerful at 3 per 10 s and it’s not a clear; it’s a transfer. Clears shouldn’t be more powerful than that and be on demand. I agree 2 is too little, but 3 per pet swap seems about right.

Chokolata.1870:

Well, maybe the druid will get weapon skills and utilities that remove conditions. But the survivalist ranger condition build might be dead

I admit, I play a SotF condi Ranger and also take EB. But with the new scheme, all is not lost. Troll Unguent becomes a Wilderness skill and Evasive Purity gets better. So maybe you go from crazy strong vs condis to just strong, but you gain in other areas. For ex, without EB hurting your pet and some pretty awesome procs on F2 skills, birds might be making a come back. We’ll be fine.

Just sore losers.
I love playing SotF condi Ranger. But I mostly do WvW. It is a very strong build that takes less to master than some others, but who cares. That’s why I like it. Don’t worry about the hate.

You had me at Berserker. You lost me at Staff.

I like the concept of the Tomes, too. But I think these proposed changes are better than the current Tome implementation.

I would take the 1st build (Main) option – not the 2nd (Most Aggressive) from the page you linked, but definitely take Burst Mastery on Disc line (not Heightened Focus). Sharpened Axes is mainly for the added adrenaline gain (the -CD isn’t great b/c Axe 2/3 aren’t great). So, if you aren’t having trouble building adrenaline, then take DotE. Also, for WvW, I’d recommend the -CD on Signet over Warrior Sprint. Between SoR, Balanced Stance, and swapping in WH, you have 100% Swiftness up-time anyway. And after all that, realize that Warriors are at a disadvantage in most 1v1’s against most classes. Running away – unfortunately – is sometimes your best option.