I’ll repeat this for a thousandth time..
L2P… Seriously… L2P….
[…] Yes this skill it’s EXACTLY like Warrior’s Volley, just slightly higher damage coefficient and longer range.
However I never see anyone complain about Volley before.
Look, if you’re going to insult people with the L2P nonsense, at least know what you’re talking about. You lose all credibility when you try to say RF is only slightly better than Warrior’s Volley. +300 range (traited), +20% more damage (even more when both are traited), +10 Vul stacks, faster projectile speed (traited) all add up to a considerable advantage for that skill alone. And when considered in context of the rest of the skills of the respective weapons the comparison becomes laughable: LB AA is ~50% better than Rifle (at range) and Hunter’s Shot, PB Shot and Barrage FAR outclass Aimed Shot, Brutal Shot, and Rifle Butt.
I run a survival build and my friend runs a trapper build, so I get to see the pros and cons quite a bit. I think they are both equally lethal at taking down opps. The difference boils down to taste IMO. The trapper build is way more slippery, but is a bit weak on condi removal and stun breaks. The SotF build is more robust w/ lots of condi removal, more stun breakers and even Nature’s Protection / Evasive Purity. Pets are more survivable, too, b/c they suck up less condis and Fortifying Bond makes a difference. SotF builds can win a few fights the trapper struggles with. But in an overrun situation, I end up roadkill while my friend often slips away.
Which is more fun/your style?
Yeah, I don’t think just Pure of Voice is enough condi removal for WvW. Also, you don’t seem to be getting full value out of the Valor line. At least consider Purity over Defender’s Flame.
I’ve played a GS | Sc & Fc Shout build in WvW, but I haven’t had great success as a roamer, so I don’t want to pretend I’ve solved all the challenges of making it work.
Warrior was definitely my fav class at the start, but most of it’s appeal has vanished.
Some things that are still fun:
-Landing big hits like Earth Shaker and Eviscerate
- Having a pretty good variety of utilities to select
- The nice design of the shield can really help with survivability
- Fast Hands
- Nice fury up time
- Easy access to Stability
But nerfing SoRage, taking away Lyssa Runes, reducing the damage of our weapons, not having anywhere near the survivability everyone thinks we have, losing to every class except Necro in 1 v 1, and being relegated to being a support class kinda takes the fun out of it.
It’s a bug fix; this is exactly how Condis worked before this week’s patch. Then they broke it. Now it’s working again.
Actually Jack is right. It’s a favorable change for condi build. It still doesn’t really change the fact that Guardians only really have burning natively … and that’s hard to overcome to become a condi class.
It’s funny how you see warrior community not happy with the warrior, what are you guys gonna play now? You should go in others forums and see how the ranger and necro community tell to reroll warrior, they’ll come here only to find what? Warrior is allright, what’s difficult now is everybody know how to fight against a warrior. Other than that it’s really strong, stronger than ranger and necro.
Surely, you’re joking. There’s no talk in the ranger forum of rolling warrior. I put my warrior on the shelf and rerolled condi ranger and it’s WAY more powerful than warrior ever was. It’s not even close.
Rabid has precision which helps proc on crit effects. Condi ranger is strong enough that you don’t need to compromise your defense w/ carrion to get extra power. I recommend all Dire gear actually.
Great video, almost makes me want to switch back to a trapper build. How do you do against condition roamers though? I found that the trapper build gave up too much condi survivability to work against rabid engis, terrormancers, and condi mesmers.
My friend and I both roam with SB | A/T condi rangers, except I have a survival build and he plays trapper. He usually just has EB for condis which he makes work, but admits it’s on the edge vs the condi heavy opponents. Swapping in the Spring might be wise if you know you’re about to fight one. I run EB and SotF so I have a bunch of condi clears, but I’m the one who always gets ganked in an overrun situation.
Great use of that stealth! You did fine in those skirmishes. That escape from getting ganked in EB was awesome. But use your pet! He just sat there as a condi sponge and nothing more. I’ve grown to really like the shortbow, but I understand the appeal of the sword/dagger.
Makes me sad. I don’t want a bow. I’d rather have an improved MH weapon.
I agree. I have fun with my condi ranger, too. I play a 20660 build. Although I can’t imagine taking Muddy Terrain over Sharpening Stone. SS + Splitblade to the face is a beating! (always try to get it off up close so all 5 attacks land on the same target). Also, even tho you have SotF, I’d recommend Empathic Bond over Bark Skin.
Which game mode? In dungeons, shields aren’t that hot, but vs players, it’s a great off-hand weapon. I play Axe/Shield and Hammer in WvW.
There’s no doubt ranger shouts are way underwhelming. But it seems every class has a mechanic that is lackluster. Spirit Weapons on Guardians, Banners on Warrior (for anything other than a dungeon), etc. Still, I wish they would make them at least slightly tempting.
If you take the time to notice, it’s actually the same people that keep making threads or commenting about their complaints over and over again. In reality I feel like the majority of the warrior population and this forum are pretty satisfied. I know i am…
You don’t hear me complain often, but don’t mistake silence for satisfaction. I’ve just about stopped playing my Warrior and switched to a Guardian and a condi Ranger. I’m very dissatisfied with the SoR nerf, overdone adrenaline nerf, useless rifle, pigeon-holed bow use, useless minors in tactics tree, etc. I would love to come back to warrior, but not the current version.
They intentionally changed it months ago to prevent an exploit. Before, people would build up bloodlust stacks on trash mobs with a weapon that wasn’t their intended main set and then swap to their main set and keep the stacks and still have whatever sigil effects the new weapon had. Now to keep the stacks you have to have a weapon with Bloodlust equipped (including underwater). Bandit’s suggestion above is the way to go to keep your stacks.
Totally agree. “Retreat” just doesn’t fit the situation. But voice over stuff rarely gets changed.
Love it! Very creative.
I bet if people started talking about how OP rifle warriors are with 2 bursts, a utility to make them unlockable, easy repositioning through GS and fast hands, doing comparable damage to a ranger longbow while being way more tanky, we would end up seeing a bunch of new rifle warriors running around.
LOL!
Why when Volley is in the same state and has been for 2 years.
Now if you want to argue the 15% additional damage is too much, or the 300 additional range is too much, then raise those concerns. But mechanically, the skills are very similar so arguing about the cooldown, channel time, or 1200 base range is a waste of time.
15% additional base damage plus vulnerability plus 300 additional range plus faster projectile speed that make it nigh-impossible to dodge at max range without blowing endurance as part of a much stronger set of complimentary traits is too much, yes.
It’s not that you can’t deal with the Rapid Fire itself by popping cooldowns and burning endurance, of course you can; but it takes a lot, you get wrecked if you screw it up, and doesn’t cost the ranger much of anything. It’s not like he has to burn long cooldowns or use his own endurance or even expose himself to get these results.
It’s just a lot for very little, and while it’s nowhere near the dumbest balance issue they’ve had in game they could easily rip 20-25% damage off the skill and it’d still be spectacular.
That 15% is including the vulnerabilty.
Rifle has built in fast projectile speed.
Ranger sacrifices piercing or group precision for range.So that’s it? Non-issues?
No, the 15% extra is base. Vulnerability is an added bonus. So is the +5% from Eagle Eye. So is the 10% extra speed from Read the Wind. Also, the ranger signets perfectly compliment adding big percentages to the burst. Plus, the Ranger’s Longbow AA does 50% more damage at range than a Warrior’s rifle. And the complimentary skills of a Rifle (2,4,5) are considerably worse than the Ranger’s Longbow (3,4,5).
Seriously, are you trying to say that a Warrior’s Rifle is just as effective as a Ranger’s Longbow?? That’s not a credible argument.
Yeah, for survivability, I think you’re way better off with a Guardian.
you’re saying that the wolf only has like 7-8k health now?
No, I’m saying my wolf had 22K, but now has only 15K health and my drake had 36K, but now has only 23K. When I’m in Lion’s Arch the numbers are like they’ve always been.
Today, my drake has 13K less health and my wolf has 7K less than yesterday – only in WvW. Anybody else notice this?
I’m glad Rangers got a bunch of overdue buffs. I even took my level 80 ranger off the shelf and he’s fun again. Entangle now has to be one of the best elite skills in the game. Rangers are definitely viable with condi and power builds.
While the player base will adjust more to the Rapid Fire changes, in the end, I think it got buffed just a bit too much. It needs a tone down – not a big nerf. I think Rangers are very defensive on this, not from an objective stance, but more from an emotional reaction of being down-trodden for so long.
Even after a small balance to Rapid Fire, Rangers will be quite fun and in a WAY better place than they’ve been in a long time. I just hope it doesn’t come too soon. Rangers definitely deserve some time in the sun. Soak it in!
Yup, those are my same thoughts, too
Torment on AA is too much.
Yeah, Mace should go the way of the dodo after the patch. It will still be used w/ Perplexity runes, I guess, but it’s only left to corner cases.
Yes, they are horrible. I’ve brought it up before, too.
I also agree w/ Cygnus that they shouldn’t be replaced with anything to do w/ adrenaline.
Perhaps a Gain X (or Cure Y) when using a heal skill (w/ HS the defacto std, this would not be a buff for most, but would encourage trying another heal).
Empower got nerfed hard several balance patches ago. It now seems prime to take the T2 minor trait spot. Or perhaps the increased radius on banners could be a minor trait. Or maybe Elite skills last longer as a T3 to get back the SoR nerf (but not for the most popular builds), and add some sorely needed duration to the silly Rampage elite.
Please use propper grammar and rename title to hambot.
Same for any other warior build.
Youre welcome
How’s that glass house comin’ along?
At least they mentioned build diversity as a goal for other classes in their description of upcoming changes. Maybe – just maybe – there’s an undisclosed nugget somewhere for us, too. Top of the list: I’d love to have a reason to actually activate my heal.
Thank your lucky stars? It’s a 20 sec transform on a 150 sec timer. And while on CD, they don’t have access to Signet of Rage.
Advantage: Opponent
I agree, both Mace and Axe 4 skills could use an improvement.
I like your suggestions, but the Axe 4 range might be a bit too much.
For the most part I understand and agree with a good chunk of the changes. However, I really don’t see how they addressed build diversity. It’s still a Fast Hands, Cleansing Ire, Healing Signet always passive warrior build world. I’ll leave the fair/unfair discussion to other threads and just comment on diversity:
- Adrenaline nerf: Favors AoE F1 skills and makes Burst Mastery more important. Hey! What d’ya know? Hambow features all the above qualities.
- Healing: Where’s the Mending buff? The Healing Signet Active? A rework of Healing Surge? (And as a bonus, if Mending or activating HS became tempting, Restorative Strength would also become relevant)
- Condi Removal: Indirectly nerfing CI doesn’t really increase diversity. Brawler’s Recovery is a step in the right direction, but also competes with Burst Mastery. “Shake It Off” has been the same over time, even tho condis have gotten stronger. I think that utility could use a small improvement.
- Traits: They missed a chance on making the Arms line more appealing or getting something other than the minimally useful “while reviving” minor traits in the Tactics line.
- Elites: Proof of “be careful what you asked for” : ) The unnecessary nerf to Signet of Rage and the irrelevant buff to Rampage is at least an attempt by ANet to do something diversity-wise, but ends up as a total disaster.
- Weapons: At least the Great Sword changes shift an emphasis on actually using the F1 skill and is probably a small net buff (Good job ANet!). But the small mace buff won’t even compensate for it having the hardest to land F1 (and therefore hardest hit by the Adrenaline nerf). I’ll pass on discussing rifle ’cause I dislike the clunkiness and am probably biased. The Axe Off-hand is a step in the right direction, but not enough to make it a tempting choice. The Sword 4 nerf is probably justified.
Overall, ANet missed some good opportunities. Disappointing.
Ok, I’ll say it:
Rampage (post patch) SUCKS!
It has a super-long CD, a short duration, keeps you from using your other utilities, and has an opportunity cost of not having another really useful Elite like SoRage.
Meanwhile, while you’re transformed, it’s not a game-changer in terms of damage or defense.
I’m really upset at ANet for nerfing SoRage to help encourage us to take this crappy elite.
Umm … what other change – that is actually used in common builds – got a serious buff?!? Hint: Rampage buff doesn’t count. Maybe the GS nerf/buff is a net gain, but that’s about it. And the Signet of Rage nerf is pretty harsh, too.
You realize that you don’t get things into “common builds” by nerfing or not-buffing them?
What would you buff? Things already constantly taken?
I was just commenting that you made it sound like we got some useful “serious buffs.”
We didn’t.
I’m all for build diversity. And buffing less used /weaker skills/traits is the way to do that (nerfing more powerful ones does, too, but is less popular obviously). But if you just make token buffs to fringe skills that still don’t make them worth playing (hello Rampage, Axe OH, Mace MH), it doesn’t really help.
What have they done to change the Fast Hands/Cleansing Ire/Healing Signet always passive meta??
Everyone remarks how powerful the longbow is. And it’s that way out-of-the-box. Maybe nerf the base abilities some more BUT give a major trait (maybe in Arms?) that gets it back and perhaps a bit more. Hambow needs CI, MH, and BM so that build couldn’t climb up and get it. Voila! more build diversity. Where else? Let’s buff Mending so it’s at least a consideration. Let’s give a decent incentive for pressing the active on HS. Either of these 2 would also make the Restorative Strength trait relevant and worthy of consideration. With the Adrenaline nerfs, Healing Surge (already a dog to HS) should have been reworked to help compensate. Let’s rework at least some of the stupid “while reviving” minor traits in Tactics. That sort of thing.
Rifle is still clunky and Axe OH didn’t get buffed enough to be a contender.
I like the Warrior Adrenaline change. Though lots of the other changes are serious buffs, the adrenaline change is such a huge nerf to most current plays that it could work out.
And I like it. Adrenaline currently feels meaningless. It’s one of the shortest-CD skills, equivalent to #2 on most weapons.
Umm … what other change – that is actually used in common builds – got a serious buff?!? Hint: Rampage buff doesn’t count. Maybe the GS nerf/buff is a net gain, but that’s about it. And the Signet of Rage nerf is pretty harsh, too.
Nobody uses SoR for the passive
Honestly, I was OK with most everything – more risk/reward on adrenaline, shifting damage on GS so that the F1 comes back into play, etc. The net nerf on rifle was unexpected, but I didn’t care ‘cause I don’t use it.
But this change on SoR was out-of-the-blue and most depressing.
I also think they missed the boat on trying to increase build diversity. They didn’t do anything to break up the HS/CI/Fast Hands must-dos of Warrior builds.
I think it would be a fair buff to the under-loved shortbow.
I tried the Beastmaster trait to get a feel for what Signets will be like post patch.
For SotWild, my ranger didn’t get the 50% movement speed buff part. Is anyone else seeing the same?
I’d be OK with something like that suggestion. As a warrior, I don’t want to be known for how good I am at running away from fights : )
As a general change, I would like to see armor play a bigger role in the game for all classes. Something like:
- Bigger delta between light and heavy armor for damage mitigation
- Heavy armor has a penalty to endurance/energy bar and light armor gets a bonus – maybe 20% each way?
For extra credit, consider giving some classes the option to wear lighter armor with perhaps the added incentive of having +10% to critical hit % and a bonus good utility skill option and an extra off-hand weapon choice only available if you wear the lighter armor.
I’m looking to switch my Ranger to a condi build. The core of my build looks a lot different than the others posted here:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNAnfVjEq0yaNLesQ1aABhaVA0uGS2u2d+eDfNA-TFxGwAAUCCXfgL1fSq8jQALWDA-w
I still haven’t picked out sigils/runes/pets.
What’s the attraction of the sword in a condi build? Axe/Torch/Dagger are all pretty obviously condi friendly, but sword doesn’t have as much to offer.
I decided to tag onto this thread as any suggestions would no doubt help the OP, too.
If I have say Restorative Strength and Mending or say the Charge (4) skill of a traited Warhorn, does the Cripple, Chills, etc. get removed 1st and then the general condi removal/conversion? Or the other way around? Thanks!
I was mainly addressing the effects on the roaming / havoc size WvW groups – not zerg v zerg. My most frequently played characters are a Warrior that I just switched from power to condi after the patch and a power Guardian. As others have stated, +/- 40% duration is just too swingy. It needs to be toned down a lot (perhaps even more than my original suggestion). I’m not in the camp of getting rid of all food (consumables in general are a staple of MMOs), but it seems odd that a single food would have more effect than a maxed out trait line. And I feel for the power users who want their cc condi’s to stick for at least an approximation of the original duration.
Fun topic!
For Warrior, Deal!
For Guardian, No deal.
I’m interested in hearing from thieves on their deal.
+40% condi duration and +70 Condi damage food is like no other. There’s no other food that gives that bang for the buck. Most foods grant 170 stat pts. What condi build wouldn’t give up 100 stat pts for +40% condi duration?
To be fair, the -40% condition duration food should be reduced equally as well. I think if it were +/- 20% it would retain a high degree of usefulness, but not be over the top.
Thoughts?
Now, the minor traits of the tactics line. Your biggest qualm is that they are the weakest point of the tactics line. I disagree heavily, […]
Tactics is EXTREMELY balanced and worth the investment for Support orientated builds.
Ok, we aren’t gonna agree on the usefulness of the Tactics minor traits. Judging by comments I’ve seen here and other threads, I’d say you are in the distinct minority. Nonetheless, can we agree that having them all “while reviving” traits is at least situational and lacks variety? The only other trait line that keeps to a common theme like weapon swapping (Discipline) at least focuses on a very commonly used mechanic. How about just for the sake of variety, let’s get something a little more interesting and more frequently used. You can keep whichever while reviving trait you’d like (they’re all barely useful to me), but let’s get some variety. I already threw out suggestions. Did any of the themes strike a cord?