Guild Wars 2

Ryuujin.8236:

Horrible thought… maybe this is delibrate?

I’ve heard several times in recent weeks PvP’rs kittening that it’s unfair phantasms can attack them before they even render – perhaps the delay was intentional to telegraph the incoming attack in PvP

I’ve had the feeling that this is deliberate as well. As I said earlier, now we have two attack checks, one due to the blind/dodge/aegis ect changes last patch and if those fail the person is now given time to see our phantasm and decided if they want to dodge or not.

I also just tested this out and it seems very inconsistent. I went to heart of the mists and:

- There is a delay before it attacks now, regardless of traits as others have mentioned
- Three times I had the berserker just stand in place spinning rather than spinning through the target and moving (this seemed rare).
- And the attacks seemed odd sometimes hitting once, sometimes twice and sometimes three times on a target.

So now people have a chance to blind or dodge our summon, then if we get it off they have adequate warning if they want to try and dodge it a second time to take no damage.

Surbrus.6942:

How about Anet makes a 9th class, call it “Portal kitten”. It’s only ability is a 4 minute cool down Portal. Take Portal away from the Mesmer.

Now can we Mesmers have balance? The Portal kitten class has a Portal, so it is automatically over powered, but that won’t hurt our balance.

Agreed. I am getting so sick of hearing how we need to be nerfed more because of portals. If we are having to choose between portals and balance, just get rid of the portals please.

Chaede.7348:

Chaos storm does significantly more damage if the enemy takes any hostile actions, it shuts them down. Denial is a tactic.

I think you are mixing up chaos storm with confusion. Chaos storm randomly hits for one of 4 conditions (1s daze, 1s chill, 2s weakness and 2s poison), it also provides nice buffs if friendly people stand in it. It does minimal damage and really is a better defensive tool than an offensive one.

Niim.9260:

Bones.5762:

Please tell what do you do with your mesmer when ALL the enemy server is on walls or behind it with sieges that is so much fun besides auto attacking a gate. Mesmer is still fun to play in a open field fight, but during sieges theres not much i see them doing. what do you want to do? throw chaos storm on friendlys and say its fun?

As a thief I pull out my ranged weapon and auto attack the door while waiting to get inside. Is that somehow different than what you are doing as a mesmer?

You have cluster bomb with your short bow which is one of the best attacks for siege offense. It can hit people and siege on walls out of LOS (hitting further than any other class I think) because of the arc and explosion, can be used multiple times because of initiative and does lot of damage with a power spec. Attacking a door is usually bad, it often costs more than it helps. It is almost always better to attack siege on the wall or the people firing down at your rams/golems so they back off.

If a thief uses their teleport from in their downed state and target the door of a tower/keep, they can not get into said tower/keep. If they use their short bow teleport they will go in if they target the door in their upstate.

Solution: Give the same limit to the down state mist form. So elementalists can travel but not enter a keep or tower and the problem is solved.

Norn have stealth from snow leopard.
Humans have hounds for extra damage and another ability for aoe root.

displacedTitan.6897:

I just dont understand how this game doesnt force you to stay in the world if in combat for like 30 seconds or a minute. Every other MMO EVER has done this, hell original EQ did this (didnt play UO so I dont know about it).

I will confirm UO did have a log out timer (a rather long one), even if you weren’t in combat.

Disastro.4086:

DivineBeing.2086:

Mesmers are one of the most useful classes in WvW!

I think the people complaining mostly just want to play it as a pew pew laser beams dps-only type of class and just ignore its utility & secondary effects all together. That or they simply don’t play other classes to realize how good we actually do have it.

People are complaining because it is really boring to be in a siege as a mesmer and people play to have fun.

OP thank you for your great post!

Mesmer’s are one of the most punishing classes against people who don’t know what they are doing because of clones. Clones provide a great defense if the person doesn’t know how to tell the difference, but once they can tell the difference mesmer’s aren’t OP at all.

Also you mentioned rangers and guardians as what you are comparing the mesmer to. Rangers are acknowledge as not being in the greatest place. Guardians make great bunkers but they are not known for just killing people.

http://dulfy.net/2012/11/07/gw2-greatsword-skin-gallery/

They only have greatswords and staffs right now but they have a section on greatswords with particle effects and how to get them.

ddoi.9264:

But they’re not treated as such.
Like an attack it can be dodged, blocked or negated by invulnerability.
However it also acts like a pet skill as in:
1) it summons
2) summons attack independantly of caster
3) can die.

Number 3 is an issue. All attacks, when landed, perform their full function of damage and any other secondary ability applied. Phantasm skills when landed, can still be denied the damage and any utilities brought upon by it by death of said phantasm.
It is an “attack” which suffers from a disadvantage of a pet skill, and thereby loses the core benefit of attacks; guranteed success upon hit. No other skills fail after it hits.
Also only phantasm skills go through a double check; one for casting attack and another for phantasm’s attack.

I wish anet would just take a stance and make it clear whether this skill is a summoning skill or an attack.

If it is a summoning skill, failure to summon by block/dodge/invulnerability brought upon by this patch is ridiculous and needs to be reverted.

If it is an attack, phantasms need to be rendered invulnerable and untargetable until they perform their full intended function if the casting attack has hit and then disappear after it is finished. A few tweaks to utilities some phantasms bring needs to be changed for this.

If it is meant to be a special hybrid skill only for mesmers, it’s currently receiving disadvantages of both and missing out on the benefits. Not to mention illusions are the core resource of mesmers. It is not balanced at all. The way it worked before patch the phantasms were guranteed to be summoned but could be negated of their function before it was performed by their death. It was a tradeoff, and it worked. Nobody complained it was a broken mechanic.

I support this post. As was said, currently we are dealing with all the draw backs of pets and attacks, and not really getting any advantage. To add currently out phantasms also do not benefit from things like improved condition duration, we don’t get any benefit to multi hit phantasms since every hit is negated (unlike every multi hit for every other class), we can be denied our entire aoe attack with a blind unlike most other aoe skills, people are given two chances to dodge the phantasm (one at summoning and one for its attack).

This change just made no sense but I have lost so much faith that anet will actually address these issues.

Kardiamond.6952:

The only reason I bought GW2, was because I knew they were PvP focus and they kept the progression side in WvW. If they remove it, I’m not a PvE fan or a visual grinding fan, so it will be the end for me. And it would be a shame since I love this game.

I am sorry but if you bought the game because you wanted progression, you didn’t read much about the game and how they planned/designed it. That is why so many people are annoyed, they bought the game because they were promised that there would be no progression in gear or stats.

There is nothing wrong with liking gear progression but it has no place in GW2. Personally I really miss the trinity and the element it adds to WvW but I would completely understand outrage and even support that outrage if they decided to add a trinity because that is not the design or goal of GW2 or the way the game was marketed.

Narkosys.5173:

No way. If I have an advantage with gear and rofl stomp people because of anets gear grind I expect to use it.
I will have earned that edge with the legendary and ascend gear stat boost so I can kick ur butt and plan to stomp all the badies away thank you very much.
Cant grind like me too bad maybe you can buy it in the store.

You should earn an edge by learning about your class and how to counter other classes, by outplaying or out-thinkining your opponent. If you need a stat buff to beat an opponent, you are being out-played by these “badies.”

KyleQuest.4639:

I know my post is the last one on page 1 but, it might help if you realize it’s only a 10% boost. NOT the 20%-50% some are making up.

Orichalcum Rings are +67/48/48 points with an upgrade slot for a jewel. Jewels are +25/15/15. Totaling 92/63/63 or 218 points.

Acsended rings are 103/68/68 or 239 total points with an Infusion only upgrade slot. Which is about a 10% increase, right?

Now, the new back items are about an 18% increase. Though back pieces needed a boost as they have been under powered. I’ve never even had enough Gold to purchase a Guild Back pack yet. So, the new items having a plentiful drop rate was welcomed.

Yes, I agree I do not like being forced to run Fractals. But, it’ll only be for a couple of weeks I tell myself. Though I’m aware I’ll be forever feeling without and near hopelessly grinding away to play catch up to the wealthy in this game anyway. This market functions around on a “winner take all” mentality when it requires more of a perpetual game theory enacted. Fun or entertainment rarely enters my mind anymore….

It is actually higher than a 10% increase if you had a full set, which is where that figure comes from. Ascended has 10% higher base stats without infusions, this is true. But you are is not accounted for is the higher base damage on a weapon (which they have said they will be including). That base damage, plus the extra stats from infusions, plus the way stats work (for example a crit will grow exponentially with higher stats and weapon damage) and how the 10% works out means you will be doing closer to 20% better when you do the math and have a full set.

Someone did a good post mathematically analyzing all this, which is where the 20% comes from, but it got lost in the big thread.

KiNgPiN.2075:

Actualy Alt+F4 is the best thing to avoid thief to finish you when he is invisible, any other profesion can be countered in downed state but not invisible thief. Ah btw u can also Alt+F4 when u are low on healt, and if u do it in LA u most probably get res by another player

How do you counter a mist form elementalist? Or a mesmer with distortion? Or engineer with their evade elixir? Or a warrior with endure pain?

I am not a fan of thieves either but Alt-f4ing is just being a poor sport.

xcavars.5049:

What about eles invul finish? Mhmm. Yeah, forgot about that didnt you.

Or the warriors endure pain, or the mesmers invulnerability, or the engineers 100% evade.

And I am also saddened by all the alt-f4ing I see. I have had a few good 1v1 fights but lost all respect for who I fought when they were such poor sports and quit.

Qooplus.3268:

When we have raid dungeon to get the best equipment for WvW.
What is the difference between GW2 and WOW,
Do we have to chasing some high end weapon after every patch in the future?
I am afraid now : (

The difference between GW2 and WOW is that in WOW you get the best pvp gear by pvping, doing arenas or battle grounds. It is also progressive like the token system in GW2 so you are always making progress towards you goal.

Now in GW2 you get the best WvW gear by grinding dungeon runs and hope the RNG smiles on you.

Thobek.1730:

Since this thread is in the WvW forum and not the sPvP I will address thieves from that viewpoint only.

Thieves are fine to deal with most the time but everytime I see I high spike in damage its always and I mean always from a thief. No other class ever does over 1k damage to me (I have stacked everything into toughness) except a thief who normally hits for twice as much damage as anyone else. But if I survive the burst then it becomes an interesting fight. unless…

My main gripe is when a thief is starting to lose, he pops stealth and runs away like a little girl much faster then I can (his 25% speed boost), then uses that bow ability to gain more distance and he’s gone – all while stealthed. I can’t target him to snare him because he’s stealthed and before I know it he’s half the map away.

They currently have the highest damage in the game by a mile and the best escape mechanisms, the best condition damage (if non burst spec’d), highest burst damage (at least I can see hundred blades coming)

there is a good reason why thieves are the most complained about class, and its funny listening to the people who main as a thief trying to defend their class.

I second this. The thief is counterable and can be killed. But currently they require a lot more luck, and much more specific builds to counter than any other classes. And even if you do manage to counter them, a good thief will just leave with the option of resetting the fight.

As the poster said the thief currently is one of the most mobile classes, has the best escape mechanic, one of the best condition damages with bleeds and arguably the best burst damage with only the easily dodged and long channel timed hundred blades comparing. On top of that the way their initiative system works they have more flexibility in combat because unlike a mesmer, for example, their stealths don’t run out because of long recast timers.

Blackie.8762:

how is any of this a grind? I find running the instances that change and get harder really fun. the random epic loot is just a bonus. stop crying people

This is the exact problem, the original design of GW/GW2 is that you do the dungeon for fun not for loot. Now anyone who wants BiS gear has to run a dungeon which they may not enjoy (because they prefer WvW or simply don’t enjoy this dugeon).

And for PVE the devs said they wanted to move away from random drops so it didn’t feel like you were trying for something you might never be lucky enough to get, so instead they had a token system so you could work towards something you were guaranteed to get. People are upset that these systems which were promised for this game for years have been changed in a few months.

Also voicing an opinion you do not agree with is not crying.

azmodeus.3409:

its hardly a problem, and definately not a fiasco.

stick with the current plan anet, we’re looking forward to ascended gear.

If you believe this then I why not support this idea? If most players agree with you, you would have proof that people who dislike the change are wrong.

I support the OP, lets get some player feedback Anet, you only will end up with happier players and better data on their desires. It just makes sense.

wads.5730:

i’d be ok with this change if i didn’t have to spend 30g to completely buy new condition damage armor instead of berserker gear.

You can get 4 pieces of condition gear (perc/toughness/condition damage) from the temples in Or for Karam. If you wanted to save some of that money.

I have not been on for the past week and just came back to see this… I know this will be lost with all the other posts but I am so disappointed in Anet. I have said before that I trusted in these developers and trusted that they would only make the game better, I now regret saying that.

Other posters have summarized the problems better already but I wanted to add to the chorus of those who are mad about these changes.

MLieBennett.9031:

Have multiple attempts to counter every other skill? (On Phantasm summoning, on Phantasm attack.)

This is my issue, why do our attacks have a second chance to be dodged? You can now dodge the phantasm and if you missed timed you can just dodge the attack.

So now that all phantasm require line of sight and we have to deal with the issues of blind and all that, can we get it so that our duelist for example can fire down keep walls at people? If we have to deal with the drawbacks of line of sight do we at least get the benefits of out attacks actually hitting people?

*haven’t tested this in a couple of weeks but last time I checked none of out phantasm would shoot down at people.

Supervillain.8617:

I think the biggest problem of all is that the last dev post on the mesmer forum (as of today, 11/16, anyway) is on page 15, referring to the very old news of exploration stars not appearing on clones.

Is there even a dev that plays a mesmer or someone who actually works on behalf of the profession? I find it very hard to believe that anyone familiar with the workings and core mechanics of the class would sign off on this travesty.

The post you are referring to was actually moved to the mesmer forum. The original post was in a different section so in a way the dev didn’t really post here.

psirca.9452:

For anyone concerned about Time Warp on Mesmers.
Doesn’t this guardian skill seem more attractive?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot%27s_Fervor
Grant fury and quickness to all nearby allies.
Cooldown: 15 seconds
Max number of allied targets: 10
Fury: 10 s (+20% critical chance)
Radius: 1,200
Quickness: 3 s

vs

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Time_Warp
Create an area that warps time, granting you and your allies quickness.
Cooldown: 210 seconds
Quickness: 1 s
Duration: 10 s
Combo Field: Ethereal
Range: 1,200

The guardian one seems so much better, what am I missing?

It could be cast about 12 times as often as time warp for a total of 36 seconds of speed casting versus the 10 seconds of time warp.

I don’t have a guardian to know, do they have this skill? Seems just as powerful, if not more.

That ability is from tome of Wrath which is their elite which gives them a new bar. They have access to that ability for 20 seconds with the 15 second cool down on the ability, then there is a re-charge on the tome of 180 seconds. Basically it ends up being 6 seconds of fury and quickness every 200 seconds. So it’s comparable, but not really better.

psirca.9452:

All of us that picked up mesmer because we like the skills don’t want to be labeled a flavor of the month profession either so if all you think of my mesmer as is “the person with portal and time warp”, I’m content with changing that.

I agree with this. I really hope portals are tuned down a bit, at least make it so golems can’t use them.

I am seeing this more and more and I really hope the dev’s acknowledge this problem and try to address it.

I just want to say I agree that WvW is awesome and to say thank you for it. I also want to thank you for how responsive you have been, and I know that you are only going to make WvW better as time goes on.

I am a bit disappointed about the culling issue though, but I recognize it must be extremely difficult to fix.

1) Agreed, mostly due to the hatred we get for it. I never use it anyways, we have better elites.

It is currently fine for pve though and should not be changed there.

2) I am fairly certain they said they had fixed the culling issue and are just waiting for the patch. But I agree this needs to be fixed.

3) Agree about the scepter clones being bad but I disagree about the other clones. I like how they feel more unique right now and staff would need to be buffed if no longer helped with any damage of clones. And sword clones die so fast I don’t understand the issue with them.

4) I understand this issue. But I am hesitant to agree it needs to be fixed. Thieves and warriors can both arc attacks and overcome LOS, Aoe’s from others can hit over line of sight and do a lot more damage than iZerker. And without iZerker we have nothing to do for sieges. If this is nerfed we need some things to compensate.

5) The combo field issue with iduelist needs to be fixed, because each shot is a projectile finisher, when it should be only 30% chance. Other than that, the dps doesn’t seem bad to me, but this is one where you need to see the numbers from Anet.

6) I disagree with this, BF is fine.

Added for general balance: 7) I think that it might be a good idea to look at portals. Currently they are a game changer, especially in WvW, and some limits might be a good idea in the name of class balance. I don’t know what to do but I do understand why people are upset about them.

(a) – Our damage is fine.
(b) – I have no trouble spotting clones, and people are often upset because they don’t like to be tricked.

Buffs:
(i) GS 3 is just awful and useless
- agreed

(ii) iMage is a joke and makes Torch useless even though the prestige is fun
-agreed, although torch still has some uses but only because of prestige.

(iii) Staff seems fine to me.

(iv) scepter needs some condition on auto attack, like confusion on the third hit.

(v) Bug fixes

I am wondering what everyone’s thoughts are about the thief and warrior who can arc their attacks, is it unfair that they have a ranged weapon that can be fired and hit people without line of sight? That seems like it would be a similar issue, so should we nerf that as well?

Personally I am seeing this more and more and it is just getting frustrating.

Chris.7653:

Hey Kasama, thanks for posting

I did roll a mesmer and played it….I was shocked that within the first round I was top on kills/score without knowing the class at all and it only got better from there to the point is was just super boring and to be honest, I felt dirty playing a class so unbalanced.

My main problem is that their clones look exactly like them, when you finally do target the real one and mark them, they pop decoy, or mirror image etc and the mark is dropped and you have to look for the original again.

That might not sound so bad, but when the clones are hitting you for most of your life it quickly becomes a problem. If the Mesmer is shatter spec as I mentioned ealier I was hit for 16k (Totaled between their clones, all of the damage happened at the same exact time).

These clones simply hit to hard, and provide to much coverage/support for the mesmer.

No offense but you saying things like this is exactly why people are suggesting you to learn about the class. First of all the clones do not look exactly like the mesmer. A nice list of ways they differ was provided above and expanded on.

Second of all clones do almost no damage contrary to what you are saying. Phantasm, the glowing see-through purple ones do damage, but they are purple with different weapons and names, which should be easy to spot. Clones running towards you can do damage because of shatter, but if they are running at you, dodge so they don’t hit you.

Also there is no way to hit someone for 16k with shatter. If you are talking about over the course of a fight then of course, but there is no way to do that much damage, even to a glass cannon with one mind wrack. If you had a screen shot of what they did I am sure people would be willing to give you feedback.

Hastur.6231:

Look:

- Clones do not spawn with the same amount of health
- Only spam the first attack
- Attack with a reduced rate of fire
- Do not display titles
- Do not display explorer star next to name
- Do not carry an off hand weapon
- Receive a lot more damage
- Are static if not out of range or Issued a shatter command
- Do not dodge
- Downed clones DO NOT HAVE A BIG RED TRIANGLE on their head

-Clones do not copy buffs the Mesmer had, usually showing no buffs at all.

So there are actually quite a few clues to spot the fakes. I know this suggestion has been said before, but honestly after playing a mesmer for a bit it gets really easy to spot clones, so if you are having a hard time with this aspect, it might be something to try.

Knote.2904:

Also another ACTUAL boss that should really be an example is the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan from personal story, THAT was a legit, old school BOSS FIGHT. Giant arena, giant boss, no crummy auto attacks or one shot mechanics (that aren’t hard to see/avoid) but just interesting gimmicks or special attacks. The bullet spray dancing was really fun. Again, it was a very easy fight, but the perfect example of a boss fight I want to see more of.

I agree with a lot of what is said in this thread. Specifically I personally I found the sovereign eye of Zhaitan to be the best boss I have seen in this game. Interesting mechanic, unique(ish) looking and acting boss, varied attack pattern, good arena ect. Although personally I would like people to be punished with death or near death for not dodging his attack patterns, because once you learn them you shouldn’t die to them.

Also why isn’t there more environmental interaction in these dungeons. I like the idea of traps or using your environment to help defeat a boss.

I don’t think having out of combat stealth would work for the way they designed the thief in this game either, but I still miss the philosophy of older games.

I agree that the way that would make most sense to me, for the way the thief was designed in this game, is having a revealed debuff last longer.

Kyton.3815:

It needs to be balanced. Yes, a zerg vs 1 theif can likely at some point kill the thief. Also, all 1v1s vs a stealth thief does not mean the thief lives…but a good thief often will at the least run away rather than die.

Personally this is what bugs me most.

I have fought several thieves and hurt them more than they hurt me. But most of them just decided to use a longer stealth and ran when they realized that I was not a squishy/easy kill. Stealth is very annoying when you don’t see your enemy coming, but it is infuriating when the thief can surprise attack you and then walk away if the fight isn’t going there way.

I miss older MMO’s like DAOC where stealthy classes were annoying because they jumped you and kill squishy classes but if they didn’t manage to kill you, they would be easily killed because stealth was an out of combat only thing and thieves were squishy.

I would just like to add my support to removing combat res, it makes combat very frustrating and it is getting more annoying the more I play.

Personally I like the idea of resurrecting only when out of combat and having damage interrupt the res process. I also would like some sort of decrease for progress of resing since you can currently begin to res, move away and come back to continue resing with no loss of progress.

I am not a big fan of downed state in WvW either, but resing annoys me much more.

Hyperhypo.1249:

What happens if the glass canon does not get 1 shotted and survives the initial burst, he should win right? not in this game, the thief runs/teleports/stealths away. How is that even remotely balanced?

This is what kinda bothers me. It is one thing to be able to stealth behind enemy lines and kill a target while risking your own life. But to be able to do that and fairly easily walk away if things aren’t going your way is a problem. I miss older thieves that either killed you or they died, I hate these newer mmo thieves that either kill you or walk away when the fight doesn’t go their way.

I just did a quick test in WvW and I was still able to hit an NPC on a keep wall when I didn’t have line of sight. So can anyone else confirm if this was changed?

And if they do change the berserker I really hope they buff mind stab so we still have a viable AOE for siege situations.

That sword looks amazing! I didn’t realize the preview was broken. I kinda wish I made my mesmer a Sylvari now

Regarding #4: I don’t think Necro’s lose minions on downed (I know there are bugs where they wont attack but that is a bug). I don’t think Thieves lose their summons when downed. I am almost positive Elementalists don’t lose their summons when downed. I know rangers don’t lose their pet when downed. I know engineers don’t lose their turrets when downed. And I am unsure about guardians spirit weapons.

Why should we lose our summons when almost every class in the game has the ability to keep summons up when they are in their downed state?

I am having so much fun in WvW. This game has a great fundamental design in my opinion and is the best designed WvW I have seen since DAOC. There are issues but nothing that can’t be resolved.

All MMO’s have taken time to ‘perfect’ and get to a great place and from everything I have seen they will prefect this one over time.

Yes I have and enjoy it. I was just asking to see what peoples thoughts were on this as another possible thing to do, because wvw is not the same as open pvp. Again anyone who played DAOC will attest to the fact that Mordred was not RVR. I was simply curious what people thought of the idea of another aspect to the game.

I am just wondering what people would think of a single server that had full open world pvp, ideally a separate server accessible in addition to your home server so you don’t have to pick one or the other. If you played DAOC I was thinking of something like Mordred, where even in groups you would hit your friend, so it was a big chaotic mess of fun. I am not sure how this could work with the current system of picking one and only one server so I am not sure if this is even implementable. I’m just curious what people’s thoughts are on this.

Honest question: are there ques on lower pop/ranked servers? I am on ET and don’t usually get any ques, and I assumed the lower pop/ranked servers would have even less.

Mesmer’s are not weak for PVE, but starts off a bit slow. We do well in dungeons because of some very useful support skills (like reflect walls, time warp, the odd moa bird, null field ect.) and we can solo some very difficult mobs thanks to kiting and clones. We do not have the best aoe’s in the game and in turn have more trouble tagging things in big events compared to some other classes. But personally I find the Mesmer to be the most fun class.

I completely agree with your points, especially #2 which has been bothering me. It should be extremely hard to hold everything, but this game makes it easy to maintain control. I still am having lots of fun in wvw, but it would be nice if there was a bigger downside to owning the whole map so other servers could start to fight back.