Guild Wars 2

Bas.7406:

reedju.5786:

In PvP there are too many pathing issues to use minions well. You can preach patience all you want, but when it comes to split second timing minions will not be reliable (melee minions at least). It usually takes the full 4 sec duration of my dagger immobilize for the lil squirrels to get into explosion range. I can’t speak for PvE, but for PvP the combination of poor responsiveness (barely any functionality in team fights does overwrite the fact they behave pretty well 1v1), how squishy they are to any form of aoe even with health traited, and how gimped you become when they are dead and on cd leaves minions wanting compared to well/epi/terror builds. MM has a long way to go before it is viable.

They are actually better in pvp than in pve. They are brutal in wvwvw, but so is every pet/minion type build. In tpvp, the lack of heavy aoe fire from multiple sources and small scale fights make the MM a very good build.

When your minion is dead you are as strong as a condition build with his CD’s down except my CD’s are shorter. When your minion’s are dead your survival rate is as strong or stronger than a DS centric build. When your minions are down you are as strong as several of the specific builds (wells and DS builds). A ds build outside of DS is as weak as a Minion build without minions. A well build is notoriously bad when wells are out of CD, they are just extremely strong with wells up.

Proper understanding of a class is a requirement for minion builds. Try playing with an axe/focus.

I understand necro perfectly fine in sPvP and synergies needed between weapons, traits, and utilities to make them effective. They may “work” for you, but that doesn’t make them viable. No comment on WvW, no interest there. The meta in tPvP currently revolves around team fights and aoe point spam which minions simply do not survive. Team fight necros can be very dangerous, and even if they can be home point defense there are several other more mobile prof most teams prefer there. With minions we are not survivable enough to be fully in the action nor do we have ranged capability. Axe simply does not work well enough. Low damage even with axe training and heavy power builds. Vulnerability stacking is “nice” but there are far too many cleanses in game to make the stacking potential worthwhile. By the time you reach 10-15 stacks any skilled player has cleansed and the rinse and repeat of a condi that does no damage and is attached to a weapon that does no damage is essentially a waste IMO. If say a player was stupid enough to let me reach 25 stacks and then switch to dagger I see damage potential. But most players have learned the importance of condi clearing by now.

Granted I am looking to do the maximum for my team, not play a build that I simply enjoy and has limited use. In hotjoin ill admit I’ve tried several variations of minion builds that would dominate. But there is a skill crossover to tPvP and I personally have never fought a minion build that compares to my other builds or beat a truly skilled player with a minion build.

Minion builds lack heavy aoe pressure that is attainable with many necro builds (epi-condi, well, terror) and still cannot match any other prof in single target damage. I respect your opinion and would love to try out your minion build to test it’s capability, but see very little potential in competitive tourney play based on all evidence I have seen up to this point

In PvP there are too many pathing issues to use minions well. You can preach patience all you want, but when it comes to split second timing minions will not be reliable (melee minions at least). It usually takes the full 4 sec duration of my dagger immobilize for the lil squirrels to get into explosion range. I can’t speak for PvE, but for PvP the combination of poor responsiveness (barely any functionality in team fights does overwrite the fact they behave pretty well 1v1), how squishy they are to any form of aoe even with health traited, and how gimped you become when they are dead and on cd leaves minions wanting compared to well/epi/terror builds. MM has a long way to go before it is viable.

I have about a 60% hit chance with it when there is no visible counter or obstruction. Admittedly this is too low. Glad you posted this, I would like a little clarification as to whether there is a bug or something impairing the ability I am not aware of.

Vampiric builds in s/tPvP are where you see the most QQ and for good reason. We only have our traits and incredibly few healing abilities that can be augmented with stats. In PvE vampiric builds are sustainable (can be) but in sPvP we are barely sustainable and don’t offer the damage/support other builds with the same survivability offer.

Try out a terror build. Power builds can counter rangers but it has significantly less condition removal and rangers usually are too mobile to regularly land my burst against one with skill. I prefer running with well of power and corrupt boon and that generally gives me the damage, counter, and boons that make rangers very manageable (usually perm-vigor/prot/other boons). Rangers can counter with condi removal but necros have amazing condi transfer and plenty removal ourselves. Terror gives a nice boost in condi damage, longer uptime’s seeing as you lock out intentional boon removal, and overall has good survivability. I know this game isn’t built for 1v1, but I have found terror to be a nice alternative to the known viable necro team fight builds. Hope this helps.

I would like it to scale with something. And it will likely never scale with healing power to avoid an OP necro. Imagine top health, stacked toughness, 2 health bars, and regular near constant siphon enhanced with HP. I think it would be very difficult to kill a well necro with all that going for him.

Check out nemesis posts on here (there are links to builds in the post stickied at the top of the necro forum), lots of great break downs. I am going to go ahead and send you a PM with my experience and I would be more than willing to help you in game if you like. NA here.

EDIT: I didn’t see that PvE emphasis in your first post. If you ever feel like making the transition to sPvP I would be more than willing to show you the basics at the very least.

Inept? Seeing as how you refuted none of my points (successfully) and simply lacked specification in your OP I respectfully disagree. Ok bud I won’t argue with you, but a few things I may not have specified. Between self and group condition removal I am able to counter any condition build I’ve encountered. And no, like the above post said, staff is not only viable without a condi build, I actually prefer it with my power build for group control.

Edit: we do fill a condition niche. Removal may not be as available as you think it should be but no one compares to our condition transfer abilities or boon corruptions/removal. Not to mention “on par” with most classes seems more balanced than excessive boon removal and highest potential group condi dmg via epi. If anything ele and guard are niche for condi removal and they have the abilities/traits to match.

If this isn’t a troll thread you need to take a serious look at other profs. We have the top condition removal of any prof without needing to specialize. No other prof has 3 abilities that remove EVERY condition on them. The most important thing to remember is timing and recognizing how they are being placed. Not to mention we readily have traits in different trees that remove conditions. Then look at other profs. How many others have weapons skills that not only remove condi from you but add them to others. I like necro but I have no desire to see a tank fotm condimancer crash the meta. If seriously after all this it is not enough start utilizing runes/amulets. Already condi has taken a back seat in sPvP to power builds (yes condi is still viable) but adding more condi removal will just in the end make them obsolete. Other than that there are countless ways for groups and teams to also coordinate condi removal.

I am tired of people mention GW1 in forums as if it had any real significance in GW2. It is awesome that you have stuck with the franchise, but it isn’t as if that is any argument for what should be in GW2. I am sure it was a fun game but it wasn’t an MMO and treating GW2 like an instanced cooperative RPG will just cause it to do worse than it is currently (not to mention the dev team is FAR from the same).

The point of this post is since QP are unable to be viewed and rank is only visible for a few seconds after matches end there is no way to show skill besides grinding (rank armor and titles). And grinding was something Anet promised we wouldn’t have to do. I do enjoy PvP and the ONLY incentive I have to log is the 30min-1h I have fun in game a day. But to have a healthy community you cannot just assume all players play for fun. A major part of persistent world MMOs is making progress and showing improvement, currently impossible for PvP players.

Ostricheggs.3742:

because this game is about teamwork. One bad player will literally drag a team down against good players. One bad rotation at the wrong time can turn a two cap into an enemy 3 cap in the blink of an eye. New players don’t make teams up cuz they’ll just get kitten on and not know what’s goin on over and over and over and over.

Old players dont make teams cuz they’re lazy and can’t find any players good enough that play during their time-frame.

While I don’t disagree and I cannot fault you for your opinion, it is one of the major flaws in the MMO community. Old players would like to think they were never new players and just jumped in game with skill. Those “bad” players are only separated from the good players by time, effort, and little help/coaching. If people don’t start taking initiative GW2 PvP may be in trouble, but I remain very hopeful. As an “old” MMO player/PvPer I’d like to see more players take after Nemesis and Narcarsis, who are more than willing to help new players expand and actually learn to play the game.

Daecollo.9578:

How is your necromancer getting stabbed for 12k?

Necromancers are one of the tankiest classes in the game.

Highest health pool does nothing to lower crit damage…

I run a zerker well Necro and I completely disagree. Even without the massive amount of condition transfer from my epi build I can still kill 75% of trap rangers before they beat me. And Necro is the class with the best aoe point rejection/holding. Even with the squishiest amulet I can go plague and sit through three enemies focussing me until help arrives. Plus if you are in the high point in mid Forest your marks + wells make it impossible to stay alive on point. I personally play a team fight build currently, but before with my epi build I would regularly 1v3/1v2 in hotjoin. It takes a lot of time to learn and I think it has a higher skill cap then elementalist. Sure ele takes a little while to master skills and combos. But necro takes good timing, positioning, and incredible class awareness to be deadly.

Endgame that is the plan lol. Update: until we get together and decide on a guild we are temporarily using Droppin Bodies to organize ourselves. Add me as a friend in game and message me at your earliest convenience so we can capitalize on these next few weeks in 1v1. Good chance to get good experience as a team on the various maps.

Durzlla.6295:

I’m currently in a guild, (well that I represent all the time) but ill certainly join an sPvP one! Just no promises ill be representing it as much as I do my RP one.

PS: I prefer playing my engi, but I can play ranger, mes, and staff ele, no I will not go d/d

Ha a little flexibility will go a long way, but don’t worry I don’t think any of us are interested in forcing someone into a playstyle they don’t like. I have character slots for every class and am more than willing to fill gaps in our team setup if needed.

I am going to form a guild after we all get a chance to talk and discuss team names/design/etc. I plan on PMing everyone in this thread interested and might even toss an ingame letter. In the time I have played I have seen too many teams crash and burn because they are not on the same page. So I think we could draft at least a small set of “standards” that we all agree to abide by so we are at least on the same page with what we want to accomplish and what we won’t put up with. Drama, rage quitting, lack of dedication (never logging/representing/being available), and excessive gloating/QQing/trash talk are things I simply thinks that are not desirable in general but are pretty common in some MMO communities. Sound ok?

I am more than happy to help form a team between all of us. I play a lot of different rolls ankittenired of just theorycrafting + hotjoin…not all that fun anymore. I am on the server Anvil Rock, but with guesting we won’t have any issues. I don’t know if any of you are attached to a current guild but I am not and would be more than happy to form one to help build a competent and active team for us.

EDIT: When I say help form a team I in no way mean “be a leader” lol. Without players who are willing to dedicate time to learning their classes, learn from the many losses that will come, and actually COMMIT and stick with a team nothing will ever happen. Needs to be a cooperative effort.

3. Would you change thieves? Kinda LOL i (necro, 26800hp, 2100 armor) die in 1 second cause of macroed thief.

So no competitve atm in spvp. Totally. Sad.

PM me or visit the necro forums for counters. Thieves are challenging but I haven’t found one build I cannot counter 1v1 and I run a zerker/well necro most of the time.

The speed change also makes alot of close ranged channel skills obsolete due to them canceling if your opponent running forward (fast-ish) gets to the side of you strafing (slower) trying to maintain channel. I am specifically thinking of the #2 skill for both necro axe and dagger.

I feel the same way. I main necro and while I am no where near skill capped, I understand the mechanics and gameplay and am a strong contributor to any team fight. I think it might be partly due to the guild system? For example new, skilled player, joins a guild of other skilled players. They either run into an unfortunate amount of established teams or lose based on poor team play.

They have no incentive to stay with that guild and build report and most don’t. They assume they were playing with poor players when in reality they just had poor coordination. WIth the current guild system you just “stand down” and rerepresent the next team you think might have some chance at not getting rolfstomped.

One major thing I have never understood about hotjoin is the numbers. We clearly see from tournaments that these maps are NOT made to be played 8v8. Zerging is not fun. But new players like the comfort zone. I am sure many of you have noticed the cooler gear you have, the more new players with starter skins gear follow you around in hotjoin. I think that even without matchmaking if teams were 5v5 new players would at least get the chance to see mistakes, even if it isn’t perfect. And I don’t want to hear about the few 5v5 servers at the end of a poor browser. Most new players hit play now and there have never been enough players to fill all 8v8’s and into the 5v5’s. And if you specifically join one, 90% of 5v5’s in hotjoin are filled with guilds/duels who will bite your head off if you join or interfere with what is essentially a public map. What were they thinking?

And seeing as matches are currently cyclical how would you leave without penalty? If everyone bailed at the beginning of a new match, those left would once again be forced into depressingly low server numbers or take the penalty. I currently disagree with disallowing players to join a server because unless customs come in Feb (oh god please) there would be no way for teams or players to get any good dueling or counter class experience. If we had more players it would not be terrible to wait for a full roster to start playing. But we dont…surely you dont want to suffer through the tourney Q waits for something that is far less rewarding and right now just a grindfest (what happened to an innovative grindfree game?) I don’t think the system is working, but I don’t see these suggestions doing anything other than burying GW2s casual PvP crowd. Pro players are nice but you can’t build the game around them.

What you are describing would literally kill hotjoin. It is already sad enough how few servers are running compared to launch. Right now the only redeemable part is the fact that if you are playing with friends you CAN switch to their team. Lets be honest no one is interested in trying to get premades for hotjoin. And implementing penalties for leaving would be awful. Too few people play already and if there was even a 10 min cd after leaving prematurely no one would play. A lot of times you get sent to a low population server anyway and if a few more players left you would either be stuck in there alone or be forced to take a penalty yourself. As for map morale? Who cares! Winning gives you a measly few points. I actually find I am far more likely to get more points on the losing team via back capping and smart skirmishing it is very easy to avoid most mobs. As for skill, I rarely see players over rank 20 in hotjoin leaving usually maybe 1/5 of the team at 30+. Unless more players join sPvP (unlikely seeing as the game additions announced will have little/no draw for casual players to start playing, just a little better environment for those here now) there will always be higher rank/skilled players with newbs.

I am surprised this thread has gotten no dev love. It seems like an important issue and I have not been able to find any information from Anet on this. Channeling from a distance does, in my opinion, seem broken (not an exploit) seeing as it is the only aspect that makes this map unique.

JonathanSharp.7094:

We do not consider Raid to be a tournament map at this point in time.

Thank you!!!

Rotate the map could mean we are stuck with a week of either Foefire, Khylo, Niflhel, or god forbid Capricorn. A single different map wouldn’t necessarily be bad, but is far from each paid choosing a random map.

Profession Specific Skills:
Rangers also fall into this category. While I don’t think they are imbalanced, I do believe Arenanet had a lapse in judgement when they decided to balance rangers on 100% pet up time. Pets comprise a large portion of ranger damage and scale based on their stats. But unlike all other profession specific mechanics, pets function on their own, have abilities that activate without need for player activation, and do not need their owners present (risk) to put out alot of damage (reward). Yes I have been chased all across many hotjoin maps by ranger pets and its unreal how hard some can hit. Once again will state that I do not think this is imbalanced, just that the way it functions isn’t consistent enough to be well designed. At most (unless specifically traited) I don’t see need for ranger pets to comprise more than 25% of their damage (along with a buff to player activated abilities to avoid crippling the ranger) considering they mainly function on their own and take very little player skill to use. Not to mention compared to necro pets, clones, etc. they are much more survivable in aoe and can be switched for a full health alternate.

In conclusion…
Beyond these issues and others like it (Plague signet not only harming necro but in no way supporting the team with the broken “copy/transfer” tooltip-literally a passive risk with 0 reward), I think arenanet could have profession weapon and utility balance within its grasp. Not that it will be easy or quick, but i think it is attainable as long as they choose to focus on reworking/balancing certains traits and placing them in a way that trait lines synergies well for ALL professions. That is where most imbalance is coming from, not specific abilities or utilities which make this game and its professions unique, but a almost half-hazard distribution of major/minor traits. Some professions have it good, others literally are caged in specific trees to keep up with the meta. With my mesmer I can throw almost any trait into any tree (within reason) and come up with a build that at least in hotjoin can fill a role well. Whereas other professions are stuck with1-2 variations of builds that have very limited roles within a group setting. So sPvP forums, are there any other ability designs that you think are just screaming to be reworked?

P.S. Thanks/congratulations to anyone who took the time to read this entire post

Let me start this post saying that I love Guild Wars 2 combat. I personally have not encountered any system in an mmo that is as visually appealing and fun. That being said, there are some minor to major flaws that have cast a shadow on the sPvP/tPvP systems. Just to avoid the typical forum rage I want to start by stating that this is not a post about OP abilities, or any mechanic that I have not found a way to counter (I have learned to play :0 ) It is simply a look at certain setups between classes that do not foster a good sense of balance or consistency.

This breakdown is not here to address things you personally like or dislike. This post is aimed at pointing out things that clearly put professions on a different level, contradict themselves, or conflict with Anets design criteria (judged by blogs, forums posts, interviews ect.) Also please format replies based skill categories like weapons skills, utilities, profession specific abilities.

Weapon Skills:
Arenanet has stated before that when in combat many abilities work on the idea of a risk/reward paradigm. The more risk you take, the greater potential for damage you have. Considering this, there are several abilities in game that are inherently very poorly designed. The most obvious example I see is the #1 skill for the mesmer GS and ranger LB. If you are not familiar with these skills, their damage scales based on distance. The farther you are away the more damage they do. This simply is not logical on any level. It promotes the idea, especially in team fights, that a player can remain in a place with very little risk of harm and push out more damage than the classes risking their hide to fight. It would make much more sense if damage was increased based on how close the target is, while maintaining a steady level of fair damage at max range. Seeing as both of these weapons have good damage and a knockback (ironically ranger has a knockback that DOES increase based on how close the target is) this change would not cripple either of the weapons. If anything it just allows them to function more fairly in regards to melee professions.

Utilities:
This wouldn’t be so bad if other classes were not hit so hard by this “concept”. I personally do not play a warrior, but in order for them to use frenzy they must take 50% more damage. Risk = Reward. However a mesmer has access to an elite that has no personal drawbacks, lasts longer, and effects all party members inside of it. Yes, you must remain in the field to gain the buff but with the current conquest game mode this isn’t difficult. You may say that the cd on time warp and its status as elite is the reason for this. I can agree that the cd does help, but mesmer isn’t the only one with quickness that comes with so little cost. Both rangers and thieves (and engineers as long as the RNG gods are on their side) have access to quickness with very little inherent “risk”. Any skilled ranger can time his quickness to avoid the 6 second inability to heal. Not to mention the fact in PvP heals are regularly on cd, taking out all the risk (especially if they are using SB/LB). And while endurance is important for thieves, between the mobility and stealth they have, a well timed quickness won’t in anyway put them at risk. Warrior however must be in the heat of combat 90% of the time to use quickness effectively (rifle being the only decent exception) and the risk he is taking is far greater than that of all other classes (RNG engi’s excluded) who access it.

Currently, on most servers, the mists is dead. Even on servers with “high” populations the lobbies are empty 90% of the time. And it would be nice to say, “oh they are in paids”, but for the most part these lobby’s have been dead since 2-3 months after launch. Although the guild system is cool, it has left a lot of guilds with high member counts and terrible “representation” numbers. I have seen guilds go 100% representation requirement, but that simply kills the current guild work up without making it any more social. I think this is one of the largest issues for the casual to hardcore PvP players. I transferred to Anvil Rock so I could pug, but that still isn’t a fix. I do not really know if its a development team issue or a community or even something that “might” come with e-sports. All I know is its an issue I don’t see mentioned much, but has made the game less than playable for many. I can wait for addition to tPvP and balance, skill and a fun active team can keep people playing while these are worked on. But the silent majority, the casual to competitive players who avoid forums (for good reason), can’t have an easy time logging knowing that all that is waiting for them is an empty lobby and a few hot join matches. Guesting is a good start, but having all players flock to 1-2 servers will just leave the rest even more abandoned. Any thoughts on this?

I love my necro. To death. I play an epidemic condi build and a power well build, but was looking to expand and need advice. I will specify now that this is for S/TPvP, not PvE. I originally made a necro to play a siphon like build and spent weeks trying to make one viable with no outrageous success. I always either died to quickly or would endlessly kite with no significant damage. I know they are definitely not apart of the current meta, I just enjoy the playstyle. I may be wrong but it seems that stacking healing amulets doesn’t increase the siphon healing effectively (possibly at all). If it is simply not functioning correctly I have faith Anet will rectify it eventually. If not I’m worried. Siphoning does heal but without it being affected (reasonably) by stats it becomes less viable than it already is. With fear and area pressure through wells, not to mention two health bars, I picture necros being an extremely effective conquest bunker but that isn’t something you ever see. If you guys have managed to find either bunker vampire/hybrid dps/boon-healing builds I’d love to hear your input on the build in its entirety. Any clarifications or explanations of currently functioning or malfunctioning mechanics would also be appreciated

Entangling roots can be a pain for necros on occasion. It is a cc that 6t7requires you to dps down the roots to escape. If you are running a condition build with staff, your best bet is probably DS #4. Even though I cannot verify this, I also believe entangling roots can be removed as a condition since it is just an immobilize. I’d actually really like to test whether or not staff #4 would be able to transfer that back to someone. If you are running a power build roots shouldn’t be an issue. Just hit them a few times with dagger or if you are in a rush, one of your wells and they will die. I personally really dislike necros ability (or mainly inability) to have any effect of inanimate objects with condition spec even if it is “logical”. Although it is a stretch, I don’t see why Anet doesn’t just convert applicable conditions into something that could work on roots or other items. It is still condition damage so we would still have a disadvantage compared to power builds but at least we wouldnt be dead in the water. Maybe replace bleed with “decay” when it only effects objects? Burning of course would still work just fine and so should vulnerability. Nonetheless, I think this was a simple but important oversight.

Necros have a ton of very viable defense. The basics come with our health pool, we automatically have the natural highest vitality. Beyond that most necro builds come down to timing and positioning. Like you mentioned DS is our main defense, but secondary to that we have our spectral abilities. They allow us to gain LF while either kiting (Spectral Walk) or tanking (Spectral Armor) opponents. Spectral wall does give protection but I don’t like the utility much. Spectral armor and well specific traits are the best ways to get protection outside team play. I play a staff- scepter/dagger build so I personally have access to fear, chill, blind, and cripple which when played right can give you plenty of survivability in PvP and make you near uncatchable from the little questing I have done in PvE. Beyond that there are traits that allow you to siphon health (currently way underpowered in my opinion) and gain stability. Finally the debuff weakness is necros easiest way to mitigate most damage. In PvE with mobs who rarely crit you simply take 50% less damage. In PvP it may not be perfect but it will still reduce your incoming damage while you take down your opponent. Plague form gives you additional health so it can be a good way to mitigate damage while waiting on healing cds. Not to mention with all the condition removal we have access to as necros, attrition damage is usually weak against us. I hope that at least answers some of your basic questions.

TheAngryLlama.7641:

Lukin.4061:

Well if you want scoring I’d stick to necro (condition) – aoe attacks give you more points when enemies die, since you “tagged” all of them in point fight. I get ~300-400 points a match, but only play 5×5 you can probably reach more if you can bare 8×8.

Why hate thieves? They are probably my favorite enemies, especially ones that read in the forum how OP that class is and in reality have no idea what they are doing, just start pressing hs and do no dmg – free frags : )

I would recommend against a necro for sPvP. Not that necro’s are bad, just that we are pretty heavily countered by theives which are EVERYWHERE in hotjoin. I’m not on a nerf theives rant or anything but they are pretty much designed for necro ganking and the best case scenario against a decent theif is a stalemate where he runs away :P

Sorry but I just find this funny. I have less issues with thief on my Scepter/Dagger + staff necro than any other profession in the game. With enlarged marks you have to have dead reflexes to NOT catch stealthed thieves and have so much aoe that whether or not im power or condi I end up finding a downed thief when his stealth timer is up. Not to say that good thieves can’t be the bane of a necro, but i think it is a travesty to say thieves were made to gank us. Between Deathshroud, marks, plague form, and mobility/kiting (yes necros have great strategic mobility) you should be able to handle the skills of 90% of hotjoin thieves

Both power and condition necros are extremely awesome, and in my opinion, fun builds. Between wells (power) and epidemic (condi) you can through out sick damage and make a huge difference in team fights. You won’t have the best mobility in the game but for hotjoin I find both builds viable and even successful in 1v1, 2v1, and 3v1. All is based on the skill of the necro and who he is fighting, but with deathshround and plague form I find myself outlasting other players far less often than getting group spiked like i do with so many other professions.

The only way I have ever noticed that you can be noticed in stealth is when you are in a group with friends and then join a random match, even when your friends appear on the opposite team. I continuously, even last night, have had to re-call target on any class (even those who only gain stealth via teammates) after they left stealth. I do wish that if you called target on a theif for example that their call target sign would be removed during the duration of stealth (as it currently does) and then replaced on the target after they have left stealth (which is not currently the case).