Guild Wars 2

What do you guys think?

I would like to get a little karma while doing dungeons since i don’t really like karma farming in Straights of Devastation. I’m not even saying it would have to be a lot, maybe 600 per dungeon or something, just some.

Very true OP. This is exactly why when I only have 3 other guildies(which happens often) on we pug and i bring the first person that replies to my LFM. With 4 of us on vent and very experienced I know that we can just 4 man it if worse comes to worse. So we just take whoever, in hopes that if they don’t really know the dungeon they will at least learn from us and there will be a better pool of pugs to take later on.

Did this last night, was very annoying my ranger could not hit the burrows at all with short bow or long bow.

Just wanted to say dungeons worked perfect for all members in our group last night, we ran 2 CoF paths and 1 AC path and got full rewards.

Thanks for your continued efforts, i look forward to the updates in next weeks patch.

Drozac.4268:

LOL @ rickets! Dude go troll other ppl ok! Do I see exo armors?
Ohh yeah, I do, dont I? ;-)

These dungeons are so you can get them (exo gears) in the first place. Secondly: You can clearly see that even with the exo gears you down a whole lot. Gear yourself in some weaker gears and try singing the same tune buddy.
Or do you agree that gears does matter when discussing how YOU cleared it?

@ryokoalways:
You say 2 things which kinda gives me the idea you wear a good exo set atm.
Not every1 has them (or had the idea to exploit some tokens when it was still possible).
Most ppl dont even want non FULL exo geared players in CoF even before the update.
Its nearly impossible without exo gears, especially for elementist (and other light armor users also I’ve heard).
Ppl just rage quit at the bombing part while others are trying their best.

And uhh just for the record man.
Exo gears would be pointless if it didn’t make the game (lots or even a bit) easier.
So its only logic that It would ultimately becomes a snooz.
Effective lvl (stat based) can also be used in a dungeon 2 nerf if you want a challenge.
Or a better idea: just take your gears off and go in starters gear.
Problem easily solved for you, not for those who can’t
compleet it trying to get higher up.

Back to the topic: Even with a group that was half exo and rares it was impossible without using the so called “ROLES” (tank/healer/etc which this game shouldn’t be based on as Anet said before launch and still when promoting their “Fine work” after) to even get near 90%.

Defense/health/DPS isn’t nearly high enough without using combo attack/boons.
Maybe it was the fail party is have been on.
But I doubt it if outta 20 tries all failed, being over run by mobs which kill ya in 3~4 hits.

Are you serious? Is he serious?…oh …he is…well then.

Yes you do see exotics, i said not all of us have FULL exotics, you see shoulders and helms, because thats what shows the most so thats what people buy first, honestly the guardian in our group is the most geared and many of us are crafters and we craft eachother gear for cheap. Exotics are not hard to obtain. Yes exotics are better then yellows but look at the stats on armor its 3 to 10 stats per piece difference max, i really can’t make that up cuz you can go check in game.

Don’t insult us and try to make yourself feel better by saying “we must have exploited” to get exotics, do you see a reason why we would need to exploit?…no you don’t.

As for your “roles” and using combo boon/attacks comment. Are you suggesting that you should be able to zerg that place down without using half of your abilities or half of the games mechanics? I was the ele, i dropped some healing rain and such but i am dps speced, as is the guardian, yes i call out when my heal fields are down so people blast combo them, its not magic, its called being smart. If you don’t want to use your classes utility and beneficial game mechanics then you shouldn’t be surprised if content is too hard for you.

As i said this was an ok run for us, probably one of the better ones. The biggest factor on doing that well or better is honestly if we have our warrior in the group, their dps is crazy high, i couldn’t imagine how easy this event would be with 2 or more warriors(and no i don’t think that should be the case as class stacking is dumb and shows imbalance, but it is the case for now).

We burn the flame thrower guys, the fire line guys, and the archers first so that if it goes south we can kite. Some nights we have to death run just like everyone else but thats usually because we screw up, why shouldn’t i be punished for screwing up? I even said the place was over tuned in an earlier post, but its a high level explorable dungeon, it should be challenging if you don’t use everything available to you.

I can’t seem to find any video’s of this path. What is it called besides “path 3”(the persons name basically). My group is probably going to do this tonight and i wanted to at least see it done once.

Thanks.

@ vicwolf
three things.

1. We are by no means super hardcore, we don’t respec specifically for dungeons, we all use a general build for all stuff(WvW, DE’s, Farming, Dungeons are all the same spec). Not everyone is in full exotics, our mesmer was actually in 90% yellows, and many of us only have yellow jewelery. You can buy a full yellow set for about 20s per piece of gear, they are generally 3 to 10 stats lower then exotics.

2. It’s an endgame dungeon. Explorable Dungeons are designed to be the hardest content in the game, think of explorable modes as raids in other MMO’s if you like(im not saying all explorable modes are created equally). Assuming you could do them in blues with a random pug of players with no plan/strat what so ever is silly.

3. I’m not saying the event isn’t overtuned, but you stated it couldn’t be done, which simply isn’t true.

Edit: I will add that a lot of encounters became a bit easier when our guardian noticed that reflect wall really owns ranged mobs, especially the spiders in AC and the Stalkers(rangers) in the maggs bomb event.

I didn’t do this boss pre-nerf but from what i heard crystals had a lot of HP. Last night we just kept poison up and burned the boss. After the even was over i shot a few crystals just to see their HP and they died in one or two bow shots. Maybe that was the nerf?

Event starts at 10:40
Comp: ele/necro/warrior/guardian(PoV)/mesmer

Here’s one of our OK attempts. Yea we kite the last spawn or 2 but i think its suppose to be that close, gives a sense of urgency. Sometimes we do better some times much worse and we have to fall back on the kite line strat.

Ender.3508:

The only suggestion I can offer is that this DR resets upon a full completion of all explorable paths in a given day, allowing people to run 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3…etc until their heart’s content.

I absolutely love this idea. Some people just plain don’t like some dungeons or some dungeon armor so they shouldn’t have to run those. Of course then you could technically get a full set of armor in a day but it would be quite the day of playing.

As for your number 2, they have said that if 30 minutes is too long for some dungeons they will tune the DR system for those dungeons. Of course its not working now and there are many paths that can be done in under 30 minutes without skipping anything, AC path 2 is one of those.

People would be far more inclined to kill their way to the magmacite(sp?) as Anet intended if the mobs didn’t respawn so fast and if magg wasn’t an absolute waste of mental capacity. Running back through fire pools to restart where he first agroed mobs is annoying not something i see an asuran genius doing.

rickets.1386:

JonPeters.5630:

rickets.1386:

JonPeters.5630:

Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.

Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.

Thanks for the reply Jon, and thanks for giving a time. However, my group just did a legit maggs run and a legit AC path 2 run in 25 minutes each. Of course with the bug we all got different rewards but i will post that in the proper forum with times.

They were not death free runs and we didn’t feel like we did them as fast as we could have, so when we bring our “A” game we will basically be waiting in front of the last boss room for 10 minutes to make sure we get full rewards….not fun. But, I guess if the system starts to work like you hope and it takes multiple sub 30 minute runs in a row we should be fine.

I will also be posting links to the 2 runs we just did(as soon as they are uploaded) to prove we did them legit.

Thanks and i hope a fix is on its way soon.

Thank you this is excellent info. We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins but if we can’t accomplish that goal we can look at the speed clear times from non exploiters and easily adjust the system. The goal is that hardcore farmers don’t even see this thing but only exploiters. We will keep working towards that goal.

Jon

Here’s the link to our AC run, obviously the video was sped up. We started the video when you pick your path. PoV of my guardian guildmate.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnXJa0Y0m38
EDIT: Link is not working properly, You have to copy paste.

Also, here is our Token and time results from our runs last night. I will post the first maggs run when its uploaded. 3rd maggs run was the same as the first so no video.

Run 1: CoF: Maggs: Start time: 9:23pm: End time: 9:48pm
Guardian: 60
Warrior: 45
Necro: 45
Mesmer: 45
Ele: 45

Run 2: AC path 2: Start time: 9:59pm: End time: 10:23pm
Guardian: 60
Warrior: 30
Necro: 30
Mesmer: 30
Ele: 30

And just to see what happened we did maggs again.
Run 3: CoF Maggs: Start time: 10:26pm: End time: 10:46pm
Guardian: 20
Warrior: 5
Necro: 5
Mesmer: 5
Ele: 5

I feel the guardian got the correct rewards, and thats it.

Thanks for your continued effort to fix this issue.

And here is the first maggs run we did. I would actually like to hear if your lava run strat is ok. Basically we agro the mobs and run past the fire pools(while putting them out for maggs) and stop right after the last fire pool, kill everything that stays mad at us and then Ele air rez maggs if he dies.

Very doable. See.

JonPeters.5630:

rickets.1386:

JonPeters.5630:

Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.

Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.

Thanks for the reply Jon, and thanks for giving a time. However, my group just did a legit maggs run and a legit AC path 2 run in 25 minutes each. Of course with the bug we all got different rewards but i will post that in the proper forum with times.

They were not death free runs and we didn’t feel like we did them as fast as we could have, so when we bring our “A” game we will basically be waiting in front of the last boss room for 10 minutes to make sure we get full rewards….not fun. But, I guess if the system starts to work like you hope and it takes multiple sub 30 minute runs in a row we should be fine.

I will also be posting links to the 2 runs we just did(as soon as they are uploaded) to prove we did them legit.

Thanks and i hope a fix is on its way soon.

Thank you this is excellent info. We would like dungeons to be legit hard enough to take closer to 45 mins but if we can’t accomplish that goal we can look at the speed clear times from non exploiters and easily adjust the system. The goal is that hardcore farmers don’t even see this thing but only exploiters. We will keep working towards that goal.

Jon

Here’s the link to our AC run, obviously the video was sped up. We started the video when you pick your path. PoV of my guardian guildmate.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnXJa0Y0m38
EDIT: Link is not working properly, You have to copy paste.

Also, here is our Token and time results from our runs last night. I will post the first maggs run when its uploaded. 3rd maggs run was the same as the first so no video.

Run 1: CoF: Maggs: Start time: 9:23pm: End time: 9:48pm
Guardian: 60
Warrior: 45
Necro: 45
Mesmer: 45
Ele: 45

Run 2: AC path 2: Start time: 9:59pm: End time: 10:23pm
Guardian: 60
Warrior: 30
Necro: 30
Mesmer: 30
Ele: 30

And just to see what happened we did maggs again.
Run 3: CoF Maggs: Start time: 10:26pm: End time: 10:46pm
Guardian: 20
Warrior: 5
Necro: 5
Mesmer: 5
Ele: 5

I feel the guardian got the correct rewards, and thats it.

Thanks for your continued effort to fix this issue.

Ran some dungeons last night 9/26/12 between 9:23pm and 10:46pm CST. Any dungeons ran prior to this were done between 7pm and 11pm CST on 9/24/12, so over 48 hours for all group member. Token number corresponded with silver and xp number as well, i.e. 3/4 token credit came with 3/4 silver and xp as well.

Run 1: CoF: Maggs: Start time: 9:23pm: End time: 9:48pm
Guardian: 60
Warrior: 45
Necro: 45
Mesmer: 45
Ele: 45

Run 2: AC path 2: Start time: 9:59pm: End time: 10:23pm
Guardian: 60
Warrior: 30
Necro: 30
Mesmer: 30
Ele: 30

And just to see what happened we did maggs again.
Run 3: CoF Maggs: Start time: 10:26pm: End time: 10:46pm
Guardian: 20
Warrior: 5
Necro: 5
Mesmer: 5
Ele: 5

So, in my opinion the system worked as intended for the guardian and unfairly DR’d the rest of us.
I have video of the first 2 runs, i will link to it when its uploaded to prove no exploits were used.

Thanks for your continued effort.

Pretty much proves you can do dungeons in less then 30 minutes legit. So about that DR timer.

People are mad because the system removes choice, plain and simple. It’s a “Run dungeons our way or else” motto. Also, multiple paths are doable in less then 30 minutes without exploiting(see, Magg and AC path 2 and some the TA ones).

Its a bug, they are working on it. Read the stickies.

ref.8196:

rickets.1386:

ref.8196:

rickets.1386:

I would rather see no DR’s at all until you have done every dungeon once. Maybe after you do a path you get a lock out timer on that path for an hour or even a day. At least we would know where we stand then. I see no point in punishing me in AC because I just had a good run in CoF, the rewards are different.

You mean once in 1 day?

yea obviously not ideal but at least you would never get DR’s. Finishing a run and getting 5 tokens is much worse then not doing the dungeon at all imo.

maybe they should lower the DR on different dungeons, but keep the same DR for running the same path in 1 dungeon

rickets.1386:

ref.8196:

It shouldn’t affect people who have little time to play. The ones who will be doing all dungeons in under 20 minutes will be the ones playing a lot

Not always the case ref. What if someone can only play 5 hours on a saturday and thats it. Well if they want to grind dungeons for that 5 hours and they are good they will get DR’s.

that’s true

We agreed on the internet! That is rare lol.

ref.8196:

rickets.1386:

I would rather see no DR’s at all until you have done every dungeon once. Maybe after you do a path you get a lock out timer on that path for an hour or even a day. At least we would know where we stand then. I see no point in punishing me in AC because I just had a good run in CoF, the rewards are different.

You mean once in 1 day?

yea obviously not ideal but at least you would never get DR’s. Finishing a run and getting 5 tokens is much worse then not doing the dungeon at all imo.

ref.8196:

It shouldn’t affect people who have little time to play. The ones who will be doing all dungeons in under 20 minutes will be the ones playing a lot

Not always the case ref. What if someone can only play 5 hours on a saturday and thats it. Well if they want to grind dungeons for that 5 hours and they are good they will get DR’s.

I would rather see no DR’s at all until you have done every dungeon once. Maybe after you do a path you get a lock out timer on that path for an hour or even a day. At least we would know where we stand then. I see no point in punishing me in AC because I just had a good run in CoF, the rewards are different.

JonPeters.5630:

Plain and simple this system is a safety net for stopping crazy farming when people find exploits that make each run super fast. We are also addressing those loopholes, but that takes time and new ones might always be discovered. If you and your group do the dungeons without skipping large sections and run different chains this system shoul(bugs aside) never impact you.

Addendum for clarity, super fast means < 30 minutes, and even then you must hit that speed multiple times in a row before you start seeing any impact.

Thanks for the reply Jon, and thanks for giving a time. However, my group just did a legit maggs run and a legit AC path 2 run in 25 minutes each. Of course with the bug we all got different rewards but i will post that in the proper forum with times.

They were not death free runs and we didn’t feel like we did them as fast as we could have, so when we bring our “A” game we will basically be waiting in front of the last boss room for 10 minutes to make sure we get full rewards….not fun. But, I guess if the system starts to work like you hope and it takes multiple sub 30 minute runs in a row we should be fine.

I will also be posting links to the 2 runs we just did(as soon as they are uploaded) to prove we did them legit.

Thanks and i hope a fix is on its way soon.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

You have concerns and questions, which is why I am answering them to the best of my ability without divulging the full mechanics of our DR system.

This is one of the problems Robert. People will figure out your system so you may as well just tell us what it is. Not knowing when we will incur the wrath of Anet is incredibly frustrating. I agree exploiters need to be punished but you are going about it all wrong. Basically you are punishing the whole class for one students outbreaks.

Please read my post on alternate ways to handle people clearing your content too fast. We are gamers, I personally have played an average of 10 hours a day for the last 32 days(just did a /age), we are good at what we do, i’m sorry your content is not as hard as you thought it was.

If we know your timeframe we can at least run a dungeon and then go wait around for 10 to 20 minutes before running another one…which by the way is not fun.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/How-to-make-progression-worth-it/first#post266374

Our group can AoE down upto the first 3 packs, but after that we fall behind and its death run time.

“The Diminishing Rewards system is currently if you complete dungeons faster than 2 per hour”

Where did you read this.

You are right, and you should feel the way you do.

I see 2 choices(well 3 if you count leaving dungeons as is an option.)

1. Make it so you get tokens from the first bosses(non-last boss) again but only let people get tokens once from these bosses unless you: A.) kill the last boss. Or B.) wait 12 to 24 hours. So this rewards progression but stops people from farming the first few easy bosses to get tokens.

2. I hate to say this, but make it like WoW. Put a weekly cap on dungeon token rewards. Maybe you get tokens from the fist 2 runs of the same PATH before you just don’t get tokens anymore. Then after you have ran every path 2 times in a week(thats 48 runs) you don’t get anything. Just like in WoW were you only get Justice Points for the first 7 random dungeons of the week. This way people with jobs can spend all weekend farming dungeons and not worry about some vague system of DR’s.

Thanks for reading.

raahk.2786:

… It seems to me that Anet plans to artificially lengthen the time played in this game instead of simply allowing players to run the dungeons as they please to acquire armor.

…I still think that the diminishing returns system is going to do more harm then good, and I haven’t even been able to play this last update to experience the changes.

Yes, and double yes.

Demonsunder.8415:

Can you please post the Run times for your diminished returns system? I find that we hit the cap very easily. I run a pre-made static group of geared players and we need to know what you consider an appropriate clear time for the dungeons so we can stop and do something else in-between and not keep stacking up the Diminishing returns. Maybe in-between dungeon runs we can find some kittens to pat while we wait for the game to decide that because we don’t wipe on bosses that we deserve less tokens.

Exactly. Our guild group is not a bunch of super elite pros but we are not half wits either. If we do things more then once we get progressively better at it. I feel like saying, “I’m sorry Anet but some of your dungeons just aren’t as hard as you think”.

You may as well tell us what the timer is on the dungeons to not receive DR’s because people will figure it out anyway. Some people are good at your game…deal with it.

The old way made so much more sense, you get tokens along the way to promote progression. However people were abusing it and just reseting after 2 bosses. Why not put in DR’s that make it so you don’t get tokens from the first bosses more then once UNLESS you kill the last boss or wait 12 hours. Problem solved, promotes and rewards progression and stops abuse.

Prophet.6954:

Inci didn’t say the current reward was a problem. The OP did?

i did not, assuming a bug free system.

Yes i agree with you Inci. I happily did the same dungeon over and over getting my 20 tokens prepatch but many are reporting getting 7 tokens for a clear now. My point is that the system is poorly explained with arbitrary “speed clear” times punishing non-exploiters.

@ Jon Peters
Thanks for the reply. But, i sincerely hope that this arbitrary speed clear time is set at about 10 minutes. Multiple paths(Maggs for one) are easily doable with a coordinated guild group in 15 to 20 minutes without exploiting.

Obviously this system is in place because you can not monitor every dungeon run to see who is exploiting. But what it comes across as is, “Wow you’re great at this game…a little too good, here’s less stuff.”

Honestly i feel like i’d rather see massive clearwalls or doors in the dungeons before each boss and if you get there too fast you get to dance around a camp fire til Anet decides you’ve been in that section long enough.

We are gamers, we are just like everyone else, practicing the same thing over and over will make us very efficient at it.

Thanks for your continued effort.

Hankst.1234:

I can’t believe you people (“it’s okay you only get 45 badges”) are too thick to read the patch notes. First run in a wing (not dungeon!) should always yield 60 badges, which amounts to 180 tokens in three runs per day. There should be no hidden DR according to the notes.

Maybe an example helps you to understand:
New day. I run Magg in CoF, and it yields me 60 badges. If I run Magg a second time, DR kicks in, and I get 45, and even less for the times after that. If I, however, decide to go and do the other wings in CoF (or other dungeons at all!) I’ll receive 60 tokens for my first finish in whatever wing I clear, and less for the next runs in this particular wing.
That’s how it’s in the patch notes, that’s how it’s supposed to work.

Btw: I have never exploited (why would you? It’s easy) CoF, but I ran Magg a lot. In fact I’m only missing another 50 badges for the pants, and then I have the complete set. Funny thing is, I still get 60 badges for every first wing clear per day, and less for consecutive ones, while my friends who have done less dungeons than me get random numbers anywhere from 45 to 15 for the first dungeon in the day, and even less after that.

Yes this is exactly how it should work but it is not. Many people who have not run dungeons in a week or so are getting DR’s on first runs. I’m happy for you because it seems to be working as intended, but it is not the case for many of us.

Make a PTR, problem solved.

TL:DR – read the first 2 paragraphs and the last 2 paragraphs.

Some people love to to dungeons and that’s it. Some like sPvP, some WvW, some DE’s and zone completions. It’s why GW2 is a great game, there is a lot to do and love.

Why single out the dungeon crowd? I don’t see DR’s on Glory for running sPvP matchs all day. I don’t start getting less badges, Karma, XP, or gold in WvW if i play that all day. I can’t reach a zone completion limit or a “you found too many vista’s” limit. So why Dungeons?

Lets assume no exploiting and killing all mobs you argo. Time should be irrelevant if you can complete the dungeon as intended faster then the next group, more power to you.
Here is how i hope the system is currently suppose to work(bugs aside), if you just want to farm one dungeon(for whatever reason, you only like that armor maybe):
Run 1, Dungeon A, Path 1: 60 tokens(20+40)
Run 1, Dungeon A, Path 2: 60 tokens(20+40)
Run 1, Dungeon A, Path 3: 60 tokens(20+40)

Run 2, Dungeon A, Path 1: 20 tokens(20+0)
Run 2, Dungeon A, Path 2: 20 tokens(20+0)
Run 2, Dungeon A, Path 3: 20 tokens(20+0)

Run 3, Dungeon A, Path 1: 20 tokens(20+0)
Run 3, Dungeon A, Path 2: 20 tokens(20+0)
Run 3, Dungeon A, Path 3: 20 tokens(20+0)

So, the max diminishing returns you can get is down to 20 tokens. The above is probably even a little more strict then actual because I think it goes 45 then 30 then 20. So if you want to keep running the dungeons for 20 tokens…fine. If money and XP is reduced to 2s and 17K xp, that is also fine, i don’t care there are better ways to get those things.

I personally think Anet is going about fixing dungeons exploits very poorly. Fix the exploits, make examples of the exploiters. Fire up a PTR server to test your patches and stop punishing the people who love dungeons and don’t exploit(hopefully the majority of players). If you think people are running your dungeons too fast then check if they are exploiting, if they are not and they are just good at dungeons leave them be or add a boss or something. You are professional game designers, many of us spend more time in game then at our jobs, technically making us professional game players, we learn, practice and get better, putting arbitrary time restrictions on your dungeons is horrible, “let’s stand here for 10 minutes guys so we get full rewards”.

At the very least please fix the bugs(already in the works i assume), and explain in detail how the system is suppose to work. Don’t give us answers like, “we won’t tell you exactly how the system works to deter exploiters”. Just tell us what it is and ban the exploiters or make it impossible(or nearly) to do so.

Thanks for reading, sorry for the length, but we are passionate about GW2 and want it to be a game the we and our friends can enjoy for many years. As it sits now my 5 man group is not doing dungeons because we don’t want to put the effort in for a chance at 7 tokens. So you have effectively taken the thing 5 people loved doing and made them avoid it.

Most people think what you described is a bug. But, there has been no official word on it yet.

No, you’re the only one who doesn’t get it. Do you really think Anet is stupid enough to implement a system that forces people to “stop doing dungeons for a month or two”? That is a horrible business decision, “You played our game too much, you should take a break…we hate money”. lol

It’s definitely a tough area.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

Look what i explained, Shengyun, you will figure out what is happening

Ye, you repeately farmed the dungeon, rickets. Dungeon counter doesn’t means dungeon farmer doing a dungeon 50 times per day. Means the grand total of runs you made. The grand total is 50 runs (doesn’t matter how )? Then yes, you farmed. And you can talk for yourself, about how many dungeons you did. Not for others

Considering i don’t see any post of any dev about it more than “post pictures and times, and maybe we will accept it’s bugged” , maybe it’s not

A solution could be a counter per dungeon, not a grand total. But i doubt will be implemented.

I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you’re simply wrong. There is no way 3 dungeons every other day is an “extremely high” rate of completion. And even if it was all 5 of us get different rewards every time even though we do all the dungeons together.

Maybe they could put in DR’s for completing too many zones in a day. Or maybe after you find 3 vista’s you don’t get credit for finding anymore vista’s for 2 weeks. See how crappy that system sounds?

Anyway, i will be ignoring your posts of misinformation from this point forward.

Our group. Guardian/necro/ele/thief/war(or mes) usually blow every CD imaginable on the first 2 to 3 packs and try to keep killing until someone goes down. We don’t bother rezzing him and just let him die. We then start to kite and the person running back just waits outside the room til there is only 1 person left alive inside. So, we always have 2 kiting and up to 3 waiting. Sometimes we get by with only 1 or 2 deaths total, and sometimes we each die 1 or 2 times. Probably not the way it was intended to be done but it works for us and i don’t feel its an unfair way to do it since we are eating the deaths.

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

All rewards are susceptible to our code that is dealing with people who are speed clearing dungeons. If you find yourself getting less rewards consider whether or not your rate of dungeon completion is extremely high. This did not get reset with the patch.

If you think you are running at a fairly reasonable pace post all of the chains you have run and the times to complete and we will file it to try and figure out if it is a bug. Please post accurate times, otherwise we cannot determine if there are in fact bugs in the system.

Thanks,

Jon

So i guess this guy is an idiot, not a dev, and he’s spreading misinformation right? Rofl.

Yea we do maybe 3 dungeons every 2 days….apparently thats an extremely high number and it accounts for us all getting different rewards even though we’ve done the exact same dungeons together…. its bugged, get over it. I’m ok with the system as explained, i’m not ok with it being bugged.

Loe.6351:

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

It’s not a matter of execution. Completing the dungeon after 10 minutes or 30 doesn’t matter. What matter is: what did you do before the patch? You was a dungeon farmer, doing 50 times per day AC? So your dungeon counter is maxed, you will get less rewards than normal. Doesn’t matter if some of you did AC, CoF, Arah etc for the first time. The dungeon counter is shared. Example: before the patch the player did 50 runs of arah. Now, after patch, he go to AC. he will get 45/less. Why? Because of the huge amount of runs made on arah. The system is not bugged, it’s the player who don’t want to accept the farm is died and who was farming have to wait 1 month or more, and a dungeon armor is an elite meant to be completed after months.

I think thats the real system behind all that crap.

And its disgusting.

What you described is not the system…at all. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Nowhere has Anet stated any “maximum” dungeon number per week/month or whatever. The system has been bugged since before this recent patch. I run dungeons with the same 4 friends every other day or so and we avoid exploits or possible exploits like the plague. We all get different rewards every time, some start the day out at half rewards, others get full rewards every time no matter what.

This is straight from Anet on how tokens should be working….

“2) Dungeons reward 20 tokens for completion and now reward an additional 40 tokens for the first time they are completed each day. This means that if players can complete all 3 chains of a dungeon in a day, they’ll receive a total of 180 tokens, which is enough to purchase some of the smaller rewards.”

Alur.7510:

rickets.1386 You sir +1 exactly what I wanted to say myself.

Thanks
I try to drop common sense and logic all over the internet.

Anet. You have “fixed” two exploits by trying to implement this DR system. The anti-farming code and now the dungeon DR system. Instead of banning the offenders and actually fixing the bugs directly you have effectively limited how non-exploiters can play and enjoy your game.

Anti-farming code: As i understand it, basically you farm/kill mob in a zone and after an unknown amount of time you stop getting drops and it is unknown if it is zonewide or not. This directly contradicts chaining DE’s like the ones in Cursed Shore that chain all the way to Arah. “Thanks for taking over the zone and opening Arah I hope you liked your loot for the first 2 DE’s because the DR system kicked in after that and you didn’t get anything for drops for the last 7 DE’s in the chain”. Some people like to farm by just killing stuff, maybe i hate Zaitan and his undead minions so much that one saturday i want to murder an entire area for 5 to 6 hours and get crafting mats and see what might drop….well i can’t, you put a system in place that excludes me from having fun how i want to.

Dungeons: Same concept as above basically. I don’t care if you cut my tokens from 60 to 20 over the course of 3 to 4 runs, but don’t give me zero just because i enjoy path 1 over the other 2.

By putting in systems to force people to do other dungeons you are effectively guaranteeing that they will do less dungeons overall, meaning they will spend less time in your game and have less incentive to buy things from the cash shop. More freedom and more choice is always better.

I understand your desire to punish the exploiters but please do it directly. So far you have just put in systems that punish everyone and take away choice.

JonPeters.5630:

All rewards are susceptible to our code that is dealing with people who are speed clearing dungeons. If you find yourself getting less rewards consider whether or not your rate of dungeon completion is extremely high. This did not get reset with the patch.

Thanks,

Jon

Thanks for the reply Jon, but this is very vague(probably intentional), we don’t know what an extremely high dungeon completion time is. The CoF Maggs run was easily doable prepatch(last night) without exploiting in under 30 minutes, lets call it 20 to 25 minutes for my group of guildies(ele,thief,necro,mesmer,guardian). As you can see its not a bursty group designed for speed clears(5 warriors) and we did every mechanic with no exploiting. Is this too fast? If it is are you suggesting we just stand around for 10 to 20 minutes so we get full rewards?

Lets be honest, we want tokens to buy gear, so we need to do multiple runs and as they say practice makes perfect. It is inevitable that we will get faster and more efficient at completing this dungeon. Why punish us for getting better at the game?

Also since the diminishing returns system was put in place(haven’t run yet today, silly work) myself and the necro have never received more then half credit for any dungeon, even some we have never done before, and the other 3 have gotten full rewards every time. From what i read on the forums i have no reason to doubt that this system is any less buggy post patch. I’m glad that you guys are actively working on bugs but there needs to be far more Quality Assurance testing when patches that affect rewards are involved. Players hate to feel cheated more than anything else.

I’m not really sure how to feel on this one. How would you like it if you were running a guild group through a dungeon and you had to say “Good job guys but slow it down we are too good at teamwork and killing we better take 5 after every boss”. Running at a good clip in a dungeon is fun, everything is clicking, people are calling stuff out and pulling off some clutch rezzes, you don’t want to ruin that momentum.

Honestly when i read Robert Hrouda’s patch notes thread today i understood it as: I get 60(20 + 40) tokens for the first clear of every path no matter how fast i do it. Then i get 20 tokens for any subsequent clears of the same path no matter how fast i clear it. I was fine with this, it promotes trying new dungeons and still gives you 20 token if you just like running one path over and over prepatch. Now it sounds like you can get diminished returns down to zero tokens? That is not OK. Of course this is all speculation because it has not, and from the tone of Robert Hrouda’s post, will not be spelled out for us.

I have more to say but this is getting long. I will end by saying thank you for reading and continuing to work hard, i know fixing bugs and introducing new systems is not easy. But i would rather see exploits fixed(clearwalls, mob leashes, etc) rather then very vague systems put in place, I love playing the game I don’t want to have to play a mini-game of dodging a buggy anti-farming system.

I will be trying this on my ele main today!

On top of my statements in the OP it seems the diminishing returns are buggy. Last night i ran CoF exp just to check out the changes, nothing was too shocking except that Magg is mentally handicapped durring the lava run now and those mobs respawn too fast. The CoF run took about 45 minutes, me and a guild mate received diminishing returns on that run(the first dungeon run of the night) getting 2 silver and 17k xp, the other 3 guild mates in the group received full rewards.

Then we decided to do Honor of waves(the Kodan one) storymode. None of us have ever even been in that dungeon before and the same thing happened. Myself and the same guild mate received 2 silver and 17k xp as the other received 26 silver and 177k xp

Repairs for each dungeon cost me about 6 silver. So i spent 12 silver and got 4 silver from dungeons….good times. Yes i probably still made money because i sold all the blue drops instead of salvaging them.