Guild Wars 2

Dustin.2793:

I really support this…2g a win is honestly very reasonable.

If you consider 10 minute games, 6 games an hour for the BEST players its 12/hour, that’s about par with old chump-trains and far less than old Queens Gauntlet.

I thought I was fair…

gesho.9468:

yes, they should be richest.

also, i think anet should mail them fresh coffee every morning and muffins just in case they need them.

Yay someone gets it!

Well… Conquest does actually have some kittenty aspects that wards off actual PvP/combat. See: Bunkers and Decap builds. Bunkers and decap are the perfect outline builds of everything I hate about conquest. It’s ALL about circle presence.

- Bunker: Avoid true combat as much as possible, don’t try to harm your enemy just roll around and be able to stay on point.
- Decap: Don’t worry about fighting just push players around as much as you can so that they’re not in the circle and try to survive.

It’s pathetic and why I’m such an advocate for TDM 2v2 and 3v3.

Pixello.3267:

I disagree. Do you think it is fair that the daily hard working people(not talking about Pve’ers) get less paid than football players? Football players is getting paid for having fun and playing games.
Just understand that I’m a PvP’er too, so I’m not on the “PvE-side” :P

PVErs, unlike a real working class don’t do anything worthy or skillful of being paid. Plus we’re entertainers just like sports. Entertainers gotta keep up standards to be worth the money. Hence ELO rating affecting cash payout.

Also top 200-500 players making the most money would be like the top players getting paid. Clearly, I don’t want 50% players to be making bank just by spamming a bunch of solo ques. Point is, hands down, high rated PvPers and even “slightly above average” do more to earn their gold than most PVErs do. PVErs get everything handed to them, they literally have EVERYTHING. New content, fun collectibles, this that and the other thing. Having reliable cash payout for good pvpers wouldn’t be the worst thing that could happen to this game. Maybe it’d be incentive enough for some of the good players to actually stick around, feeling actually rewarded.

Football players even get a lot of money because of the potential risk of brain damage. Us PVPers have tons of risk for brain damage playing conquest forever! Fair pay for the risk is in order if you ask me!

jihm.2315:

ronpierce.2760:

Okay, lets think this through. I think PvPers should be the RICHEST players… Why? We’re like the football (Insert other sport here) players of Guild Wars 2.

but i hate footballers they are overplayed spoiled kittens

Insert any other celeb then. :P we’re stars! We need our bling to shine!

Good is used for;
Unlockables
Collectibles
And Skins**** the same kitten thing PvErs spend it on… Half the time they don’t care about stats, it’s all zerker stuff anyways, they want prestige and to look awesome. So do. PvPers…
Also, not all pvpers would be rich, it’d pretty much be the top 200-500 making notable high monies, anyone else would slowly dwindle down to average (per pve farmer) to less than average as it is now.

It’d still take time to make the money but at least papers do something that is deserving for the money. They’re superstars. PvErs do the same mindless easy stuff on repeat, in no way should they be “entitled” to make more than pvpers. There’s nothing obvious about it, it’s just that pvpers are so used to getting kitten on 24/7 when it comes to rewards.

well, I’m ALL for removing class stacking. I hate just about any 5x team. 5 bunker guardians, 5 mesmers, 5 warriors, 5 engineer, you name it. Even if it’s beatable it’s almost guaranteed VERY annoying.

Please don’t get MM nerfed more… MM is already in a rough spot right now because of Condi necros, Engineers, Staff ele, basically anything with AOE and/or CC.

Sure, stop team stacking for classes (cap 2), that will fix that issue but please don’t set off another MM cry fest. Its awful right now. I’m currently respeccing condi cause runes of the nightmare are skillful and fun.

Mal.1670:

Seriously though, PvE farming will always, ALWAYS be more profitable than PvP. There’s a huge problem if that’s not the case; PvE will be regarded as trivial. Nuff said.

You already got your new PvP rewards buddy, what the hell more can you expect? lmao

It would only be more profitable for top tier PVPers, your average joes and PVE heroes looking to make a quick buck wouldn’t be able to. Nothing would be trivialized.

Okay, lets think this through. I think PvPers should be the RICHEST players… Why? We’re like the football (Insert other sport here) players of Guild Wars 2. PVE players are like the daily workers. They can grind away their lives but we’re the real excitement worth watching. When you want to hype someone up over the game you don’t show them a chump-train you show them a guy beating some other guys kitten in some BLOOD SPORTS ACTION!

So. Because I feel like PVPers, the blood sport-athletes, should be the most well paid, I suggest games are paid based on ELO/Rating.

- PVE heroes come in, do a team que, they get like 10s lose/20s win.
- Top tier players do a game in tpvp they should get greatly increased rewards per game like 50 per lose and 2g per win. AND contract bonuses… And a Ferrari.

Why? Because we do something worth getting paid for.

Thanks for your time.
Hire me.

Things aren’t balanced around conquest. In fact 2v2 and 3v3 is more balanced because you aren’t forced to stand in a circle ready to be AoEd down. From experience, 2v2 3v3 feels more balanced and less annoying than conquest because you can move and react to more things than what is made OP because of the need for fighting on a point. Again, from experience, not theoretically.

Not really… Conquest is built around many 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3 encounters and then some other variances. If anything, conquest could use this to hammer out some real balance. I think it’d carry over nicely.

Poplolita.2638:

Can you guys just agree to disagree instead of turning this into a “1v1 arena” ?

But I like 1v1.

Totally. “Can’t be done, nope, nope, nope, nope.” Your logic and reasoning skills astound me. Keep up the good work.

You quoted you saying you like it? Great. You can’t say you like something then tear it down repeatedly and think it holds any grounds… I have you answers to the proposed issues with TDM and you refused to acknowledge them and say that its impossible for it to work. Hats not showing much support.

I do like tdm, I just want them to be supported so I can que for them with others who like to tdm, doesn’t affect you at all. Quit being so dismissive because you haven’t made a single point that holds and substance.

It’s not actually so they don’t have to fix it. Its so people stop attacking players like a bunch of kitten animals. New players have a right to play the kitten game, it’s not their fault the MMR system sets up their team in such a way that made you lose a precious match. I’m sure they want to play with kittens far less than you want to play with noobs. Losing a match hurts your rating, getting attacked by other players over a kitten game is just sad. This change only affects you if you’re a starving buzzard.

You’re pro-denial of something a LOT of people want and what is more combats got competitive because the devs would actually have to use their brain for 15 minutes and might have to make a few balance changes, as if they don’t already.

You get a kitten grip.

Well, the answer to all of your problems is out there. Enjoy. Stop ranting about how stuff “can never work” when you have no clue, thanks, friend!

And I repeatedly told you why they are not issues and easy to fix in the same way they have in other games without them even feeling weird or out of place. You ignored them and told me to get a grip.

azuzephyr.7280:

I do play courtyard, I’ve played the 3v3 and 2v2 custom arenas while they were up and my guild does team que and 2v2 matches for fun

ronpierce.2760:

What issues are you having now?

Get a grip please

Nice issue, very well thought out.

The only cheese stopped is:
-Double bunker (stopped even easier with arena rules of 50% healing across the arena after 6-10 minutes, or 25% after 5 minutes and 50% after 10, etc)
-No class stacking (Arena rule, easily applied)
-Stealth has never been an issue, but if you change stealth to not stack for thieves similarly to Mesmer as I had suggested before, you wouldn’t have that issue anyways. Arena rule to disable stealth after 10 minutes.
- Rebalance some elites. (Needed in conquest just as much as TDM)

What issues are you having now?

All I’m going to say is it’d be separated from Conquest, and if you haven’t already tried it, you have no room to argue against it and how “theoretically” it might not work when others have played it and can tell you those concerns need not apply, and any other issues can be fixed with basic arena rules.

Um.. Wait he’s worried it wouldn’t work because 2v2 / 3v3 doesn’t que well with 5v5 conquest? That’s what he means it won’t work? No kittening kitten… they become their own que…………..

azuzephyr.7280:

ronpierce.2760:

Yes, I did, do you have a response?

Because it’s great that you believe you should be above rank 70 but love TDM. I don’t care, it doesn’t do anything to strengthen your argument, it’s just you shouting louder because you want it and don’t care what it would do to the current system [in the way you/OP have suggested]

What…? I said I want it and it’d be great to get rewards as anyone in conquest doing a mode that’s very popular in the game and just needs actual support? Yeah…

I fixed literally every kitten issue you could have in TDM 2v2/3v3 in like 6 rules. You didn’t give a single reason why it wouldn’t fix your issues you just keep going on about “it’ll never work”. In that case, Conquest will never work because AOE is artificially OP cause you’re forced to fight in a circle and bunkers will reign supreme because all they need to do is be able to stand in a circle and not fight… Oh wait…

From experience, 2v2 and 3v3 is already more fun and engaging than conquest is.

azuzephyr.7280:

SkylightMoon.1980:

azuzephyr.7280:

Healers? Mana? Stealth breaking on hit? No group stealth whatsoever? I’ve said it before, actually, but it appears it needs repeating, again.

And actually no, since RBGs have been given equal rewards as arena they are now the more popular pvp choice than arena. Arena was only more popular because it was the only way to get the best gear.

I’m also doubting the accuracy of your pvp claims if you think RMP was fight reset spam. Only the rogue who was lowest priority target could reset fightfor themselves only and their stealth broke on hit. A thief in GW2 can fight reset their entire team on a 50 second cooldown that can be camped in.

Bro you’ve spent like 20 comments arguing with people about why TDM would be imbalanced when TDM like fights already happen in game and tournaments for 2v2 3v3’s are already hosted and its not unbalanced,. Your entire argument has been based around shadow refuge being too OP and being able to reset the fight. I and other have given you good reason why stealth isn’t broken in these fights and why its easier to counter than you say.

Do you have any actual source other than ‘I saw it in 2v2 fanmade tourney?’ Because the representation of SR, thieves and spike damage in high level group play disagrees with you, but argue away. SR refuge is one example of a broken mechanic that would be totally out of place in ranked TDM

I gave an answer to that. Something that needs to happen anyways… but did you really just say “Do you have any other source than actually witnessing it first hand”?????? People are telling you it WORKS because it already does… It’s just not realistic for organization purposes and we get nothing out of it. It’d be great if it was more accessible and rewarded us. I’m rank 37 and have EASILY put in enough time to be rank 70+ (new rank system). I just spend most of my time in 1v1 / 2v2 /3v3 rooms because they’re more balance and more fun than fighting in circles where AOE is artificially made king and bunkers/decappers run rampid that serve no COMBAT purpose other than push people around or live within a circle forever (tPVP) and a constant stream of 4v5 in solo ques because of a broken entry system…

These aren’t hard rules… They’re pretty standard, actually… Elite rebalance and stealth stacking nerf BOTH need to happen ANYWAYS… 3-4 “rules” on a gameplay that don’t affect anyone except people stalling isn’t going to be the end of the world, they’re standard Arena map rules.

People want it ranked because its more engaging and fun, and right now, it’s unrealistic to do this because it constantly has to be set up. What if I said to do 5v5 you had to constantly make a team and find another team to fight and Hotjoins and tournies went away…? Think this out, you’ll get your answers. It’s one of the most popular formats of PVP in mmos, it wouldn’t be hard for them to add, they don’t even need to make them a leaderboard yet, just make it so we can progress in reward tracks and que so fights are found for us, I’d be happy. And so would a LOT of others…

A lot of your concerns can be fixed by game rules…
1. Make stealth not stack, Shadow refuge gives 4-5 seconds of stealth, and each tick refreshes it to 4-5 seconds rather than stacking it. Same with P5+D2 spam, have it give like 3-4 seconds of stealth, but not stack. Big issue solved there. It’d work like Mesmer stealth does now.

2. Have the arena give perma detection after 10 minutes of a match, it should never even come to this with the above change, this probably isn’t even needed but if it is still and issue, this would clear that up.

3. After 10 minutes all healing received is cut in half, immortal bunkers would just be wasting their own time and would phase out rather quickly. People would need some sort of assault on their team to win.

4. Balance elites some. 2v2 and 3v3 are basically what you see in tPVP anyways, if the elites are that unbalanced then they need to change regardless of the mode being in the game or not.

5. Restrict class duplicates.

6. You can’t OOC once a game starts, best out of 3.

BAM 90% of your issues are fixed… And what do we have? A game mode worth spamming rather than fighting in circles for the rest of our lives.

I’m telling you now, because you are free to roam in your fights, 2v2 and 3v3 is already more balanced than a typical 5v5 conquest game which favors mobility WAY too much. I know because I’ve played a lot of both. Only major difference is 2v2/3v3 doesn’t make me want to kill myself because people can’t AOE spam on a circle and win like a bunch of kitten s, and playing the “immortal guy who does nothing but roll on a circle” doesn’t do much good for 2v2/3v3, hence AFAIK no team has ever won a 2v2 tourney with a bunker guardian. (Or any bunker at that rate?)

These aren’t guesses… Many people already partake in fan-made 2v2 and 3v3 tournies all the time. It took me what? 5 minutes to come up with a good list of ground rules to fix most of your issue. Any more pop up? Give me another 5 minutes and I could fix that too. I’m telling you, not much has to change because people ALREADY DO THIS.

If you don’t WANT to do it, then don’t? It’s a pretty simple concept…

NOT ENOUGH PVPERS!
TOO MANY NEW PVPERS!

Human logic, everything seems in place. Nothing to see here!

Have any of you not wanting 2v2/3v3 DM ever even joined a 2v2/3v3 DM tourney? They’re already FAR better than Conquest… No need to theorize, it’s a weekly thing and yes it’s more fun and I’d venture to say even more balanced than conquest (with some quirks). At least, as of last patch. The thing people don’t pay attention to is in 2v2/3v3 with room to move, you don’t have to wait for partners to show up to help you, you have no interferance and you’re not bound to a circle, meaning you can kite out of a supply drop, run from a tornado, etc etc. 2v2 has some of the most varried comps, moreso than tpvp has even, which is weird and a little sad if you ask me. Some ground rules may need to be made but overall it’s a very fun mode already, it just needs real in-game support rather than needing to be manually made once per week.

I’d say 2, not 1, but yeah some sort of restrictions should happen.

Being dead honest, with the Aoe power atm, MM is nearly useless. Just run a few Aoe in your comp like you naturally should at this point and you will have no issue. A staff ele can kill people on point in no time lol…

Ned is a rebound. I hope the best for them.

Armor stats don’t matter, all it does is check of you have on chest, legs and boots and gives you armor based on your class armor proficiency, afaik.

Honestly, with engi, staff ele and condi necro running rampid, MM is kind of hurting in tpvp. Seems like our weakness of Aoe has been amplified.

I’m fine with condi necros (I’m mm, big counter of mine) but the runes are a bit over the top.

They hate MM. They nerfed us on top of breaking us several patches ago. GG :P

So I saw this bug. But I need this to happen for real. Please give necros a toggle for perma shadow scythe. It needs to happen………….

While I fully support MM, I love it and find it to be a very interesting play style (Playing a controller to support the pets) I really hate full MM teams, so sympathy there. Then again, like I said. I hate MANY 5-X teams. WTB 2 max per class.

Ask Vassangel how to handle MM with GS. He does just fine. Amazing warrior.

He often players GS/LB, but has done well with other builds too. Remember, MMs are very weak against CC so Skullcrack GS builds usually do well too +/- some leverage, don’t expect to win every fight, obviously… MM are still built around 1v1, that’s what they’re there for. Remember, where you’re often good in 1v1 AND teams, MM don’t quite have that luxury. (Nor mobility!)

You can’t have everything. If MM suddenly became weak in 1v1 it would serve 0 purpose in the ENTIRE game, and for people who support that notion A.) don’t care about actual game balance, and B.) have no idea what makes MM fun and interesting in the first place and are likely nubs who cry about anything that beat them.

There are ways to beat them, and there are options, but remember their WHOLE game is around 1v1 for side-points. Learn to deal with it or just rush them, they’re not very great against multiple targets because they don’t have any cleave and can’t secure stomps very well at all.

cursE.1794:

7/10

Decent colours, but I think if you use dry bones armor, you should wear some helmet.

9/10. The fiery shoulders and leefy leggings are a BIT off putting but made up well with colors, overall very nice.

Hype.8032:

I’ve noted MM’s as being quite overpowered so far. I thought this spec was getting nerfed a bit this patch but it seems stronger than ever. This needs addressed right away.

They’re only OP to thieves because thieves relied on Lyssa to beat them before. Learn to utilize your abilities better and you’ll figure it out again. MM did get nerfed, thief just have to rely less on a rune set to win. Certain thief builds to great against MM still, others not so much. Can’t expect to win every battle.

If you detarget, your first tab will target players. It’s workable. If you mess up (which you already can’t blame others for) by tabbing too many times, deselect and re-tab.

I do wish, however, that AOEs and buffs preferred human targets > minions first. /support /sympathize.

Abe Kleine.3568:

Mimir.4690:

As a novice PvP necromancer, I can tell you when I use minions, I suck against AoE damage and 3+ people. But that might just be me.

Well AoE did little to diminish the minions, and even if we killed 1 or 2, they just sent one of their other friends to come in and attack me. An endless supply at minions :/

They had support, most people don’t win 1v2 anyways, let alone 1v2 against 2 1v1 builds. Call for your team mates and run a comp that has more team-play to it. MM whether alone or in a group are basically the same, they do nothing to help one another other than clutter.

On that note, a 2 per class per team wouldn’t be the worst thing ever to happen to the game. 5 of anything can be stupid. 5 decap engies, 5 hambow, 5 thieves (while not as good still annoying), 5 Mesmer, you name it, 5 of anything is just lame.

That’s why I said burst, sustain damage AND healing all need to come down. Raise the TTK, but have less immortality, more plays get made. 1 shot teams and immortal tank game isn’t very fun.

General facts about MM:
- They often have no CC breaks.
- Useless without pets, so weak to AOE.
- No cleave, thus tend to avoid large team fights. (Plus AOE weakness, and minions suck up useful buffs and cap out the aoe buff cap, hurting the team)
- Most of their CC is the problem most players have, making it hard to keep on the move. Run Condi clears and watch for immobilizes.
- Try not to let yourself get overwhelmed and turn off minion nameplates.
- Realize they’re a build based on being good for 1v1, its ALL they have going for them in a realistic setting. If you’re build around team play primarily, understand they will likely have an edge on you and this is normal AND intended…
- Terrain can easily be used to mess with poor AI, if you kite them up a ramp and jump down the MM will be semi-defenseless.
- You can almost guarantee hits on an MM. Haunt has a blind, but other than that they’re pretty much limited to 2 dodges. They have no evade skills, no stability, no protection, no CC breaks, so just use your abilities wisely and know that if you’re up on them and they have dodge rolled recently, you’re likely to land anything you want on them.
- Because of the above, they’re bad at raising allies.

Hope this helps!

Edit: On team plays, not sure what to say. Most times people do fine against full teams of MM by exploiting their weaknesses… MM just got nerfed, not buffed so they should be less potent as pre-patch. Make a better working comp if you’re having serious issues? Carry some stability and AOE condies and they’ll die. Standard Gaurdian/Zerker Ele/Hambow/Thief(Burst one down), Condi Necro/Engi teams should really have no issue…

Lol did they really say that…? They were WAY off point with that… Thieves are more assassiny in this game than most assassins are in other games…

Yeah, what gives?! Fears need to not be stunbroken. They’re a condi not a stun. :P
/signed

Ugh.. don’t even get me started on downed state.

Chaotic.9742:

No offense OP but I’ve been running ele and destroying thieves (except the good ones it’s about 50/50 unless they are like Caed level good which makes it closer to 40/60) so I honestly do think it’s a l2p here. I run d/d and if you know the attacks coming dodge (count seconds in stealth to time it), shocking aura, earth 4, etc. heck, I can eat the backstab then swap to water and top myself off. This is likely a gimmick thief build with might stacking and all you need to do is dodge it then drop him in seconds. Working as intended IMO…

Erm, really no way you look at is a 1 shot from stealth a “L2P” issue… The fact of the matter is, while thieves may be squishy, numbers in this game both sustain, burst, condies AND healing are growing out of control. They nerfed some of this stuff a LONG time ago, but we’re right back on track for a power creep. TTK needs to go back up because insta-gibs are not skillful or fun. While, yes, if they nerf burst and damage across the board, they need to do the same with healing so people don’t become immortal bunkers, it still needs to be done. TTK is too short, and sustain for healing is too high if you don’t have the burst. That’s how these power creep races work… You end up with a ruined game full of 1 shot builds or immortal tanks.

It’s not fair to say minions are as durable as players. They stand in any and every Aoe, never evade and don’t have a big self heal. Nor do they have constant boons/class mechanics supporting them. They die WAY faster than players. I mean they should, but they’re still pretty squishy in terms of being stupid. A single GS2 from a guardian can take out both bone minions and bone fiend and the. Gs4 and they’re basically all dead.

I wish we had a more active way to protect them from predictable aoes, including boss mechanics.

(In pve they have much higher hp, mobs are just as dumb as minions, so no comments there.)