Guild Wars 2

Clearly a minion master who’s pets all got aoed down and he died. Yes please buff mm!

Chaith.8256:

ronpierce.2760:

Power MM wasnt OP until I played it.

Oh get outta here.

<3 you 5 Gauge!

Braunijs.1596:

Mrbig.8019:

Decrypter.1785:

Yeah so why are all the cheese builds just so stronk ?

power MM , HamBow , Spirit Ranger ,

Power MM ? wtf is that ? O_o

Regarding the rest, i agree.

A build for people with downs.

Someone sounds jelly. When I started theory crafting my power mm 11 or so months ago I was laughed at and was told I’d always be useless and it wouldn’t work. Boom now it’s apparently ez moad meta. :P More teaaaars! My minions thirst for them!

Mrbig.8019:

Decrypter.1785:

Yeah so why are all the cheese builds just so stronk ?

power MM , HamBow , Spirit Ranger ,

Power MM ? wtf is that ? O_o

Regarding the rest, i agree.

I can show you later.

What if someone enjoys playing a build where they have to watch a lot of things and not spend all their time pressing dps buttons and trying to lolburst everyone down but instead focus on strategical control of enemies and trying to survive with minimal defensive tools ( no evades/blocks/Vigor/Protection/stability/Sttunbreaks). Which isn’t all face roll fun and games highend, but it is my preference as I find it fun. There are plenty of builds Just like MM that has a very high skill floor (easy to play effectively in lower tiers) but high
Ski ceilings (harder to play/less effective high end). Like Spirit ranger, and warrior except they both have lower skill floors (not as powerful in the hands of a noob) but also lower skill ceilings.

Mms aren’t immune to their own clutter and also have to watch the hp of all their sacrifice me minions. So they can’t even just look past the clutter as it has value to them.

Power MM wasnt OP until I played it.
Protip: Make your own meta build by spending more time theory crafting and less time yelling at the forums!

That’s not why you watch it. You watch it because if your blood fiend is about to die under fire/aoe you can sacrifice it to get an added 4.5k healing out of it before it dies. Additionally, bone minions are good to keep up as they rip conditions off you and steal life for you, but it’s best to blow them up before they die for the 2.5k+ damage explosion. And yes you can watch their HP. With HP bars.

I can agree their body blocking could used toned down, maybe even their dps and aoes should prioritize players > minions.

But I want a viable stun breaker tied to my bone fiend’s ability and I want stability when my flesh golem gets it, and I want to do more damage as the necromancer equal to any that you shave off of the minions. Sounds fair to me.

Also that’s the point. It’s a niche build. It’s good for basically 1 thing. What’s so bad about it excelling at that? Why don’t we go gut Guardian’s ability to be the best mid-bunk, and gut Engis/Necros from doing AoE damage because it’s so centered around team fighting where they excel? Lets face it. You just dislike the idea of MM so you want to kill it, but in reality. It’s no cheesier than anything else in the game. I find quite a few other things in this game WAY more rage-inducing than minion masters (even when I’m on a different character. My warrior wrecks MMs, same with my Mesmer, DPS guardians kill them fairly easy… Essentially anything can, just comes down to wanting to learn and stop crying.)

Again, play MM in top 10 TEAM pvp, its not OP. It’s a noob destroyer build, but to play effectively in highend takes a lot of skill and watching (you actually have to watch your minion’s HP, and mms aren’t immune to clutter, you know. They see them too…) then they have less mobility/defensive tools and CC breaks to have to deal with. Try that out against top end PvPers. Watch your pets get aoebombed and cced while you get rushed to the ground because your a necromancer, non-the-less one with no CC breaks unless you have the precasted Fleshwurm, and even then, you’re still getting trained, now with 1 less pet. See how grossly OP and roflfaceroll it is. >_>

Get better and try to learn before asking to nerf anything that kills you.

sorrow.2364:

ronpierce.2760:

Then TURN OFF THE NAMEPLATES. (See my signature)
And like I’ve explained. Yes MM has a lot of passive DAMAGE, but the minion damage alone should never kill someone, unless they’re a noob and just terrible, like many are. Most people who have the hardest times with mm are either glass cannons (it’s fine to have counters in the game, hell, moa and any other aoe build against an mm?). And people who stand in 1 place and take everything to the face.

Basically instead of having huge passive DEFENSES like other classes get through boons and so forth, they get passive DAMAGE, and focus most of their time supporting their minions by ccing the enemy so that they CAN do damage and not die, while doing still 50% of the damage themselves. Get it? The whole game has passive crap, its just that MM necros have their passive benefits in a different field while having a huge lack of mobility/cc breaks/evades/blocks/defensive boons/on demand condition removal/so forth. It boils down to you not liking the playstyle, but in reality there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. You just have to learn to adapt or…. well, or don’t and just keep crying about it until your tears drown all of the minions.

It’s not a problem of nameplates, it is a problem of 3D MODELS. Minions are big, asuras are small. Got it?

Of course minions can’t kill someone all of themselves, but they output pretty much the 70-80% of damage, ontop of the damage and CC provided by the Necro himself. It would be a complete joke if you can just kite the damage and let minion kill everything alone.

The justification of “but look at other classes” has always been a flawed point.
What you have to do is explain to us why it is fair in your opinion that a build which relies on 80% on AI is always a tough encounter even against experienced and good players.

This is why after this post, I’m done discussing this with you. I told the guy I QUOTED to turn off nameplates because he was complaining about them… I’ve also explained why only 2 of the pets REALLY cause that much clutter and I even agreed to that.

As for minion damage, a FULL bar of minions maxed out for pure minion dps only does 50% of the damage that a SOLDIER necromancer does with a dagger (tested). Minions don’t scale with stats, thus a zerker necromancer can still out dps basically an entire set of his pets. And again, pets have a harder time making contact than a necromancer (controlled by a human) should, of course unless their bad, but if they’re that bad and you died, well… Get better. It’s a noob killer build, I’ve said that… who cares? Can’t balance around the terribles and decent players at the same time…

And I did explain the difference, you are just so into wanting to argue and cry about MMs, you won’t listen. MMs have more passive damage while they have to struggle with their defenses more actively (CCing, managing Life force, actually timing dodges since they’re less plentiful, and relying on accuracy for defenses even, when it comes to landing CCs, where as most defenses are activated and don’t require you to hit someone to be effective). While MM focus more on staying alive and controlling the enemy and (good mms) still focus on keeping damage pressure up all at once while watching the HPs of all pets and their placements/controlled status to make the best of their quirky AI, mms have PLENTY to watch for. You think people who PLAY MMs are somehow magically immune to clutter? Think about it. That sort of thing swings both ways. Oh AND we actually have to give a kitten about our clutty (ie, watching health of bone minions and blood fiend, and flesh wurm if used) so that we can ensure we get the best use out of them. I’m talking about GOOOD mms, not terrible people who play MM just to utterly destroy bad players… Yes its a good 1v1 build and VERY effective against bad players who don’t move around… I admit it. I don’t know how many times I can say that before it sinks in. I’m not defending that. YESS MINION MASTERS DESTROY BAD PLAYERS! <———————-
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

But play an MM in the top 10, and not just based on your stupid “paper math” and “paper theories”, actually do it, then come tell me how easy it is.

Romek.4201:

its no l2p issue
its just annoying when i have to fight a zerg in an 1v1

all this nameplates is clutter on screen and not needed in gw2 pvp

Then TURN OFF THE NAMEPLATES. (See my signature)
And like I’ve explained. Yes MM has a lot of passive DAMAGE, but the minion damage alone should never kill someone, unless they’re a noob and just terrible, like many are. Most people who have the hardest times with mm are either glass cannons (it’s fine to have counters in the game, hell, moa and any other aoe build against an mm?). And people who stand in 1 place and take everything to the face.

Basically instead of having huge passive DEFENSES like other classes get through boons and so forth, they get passive DAMAGE, and focus most of their time supporting their minions by ccing the enemy so that they CAN do damage and not die, while doing still 50% of the damage themselves. Get it? The whole game has passive crap, its just that MM necros have their passive benefits in a different field while having a huge lack of mobility/cc breaks/evades/blocks/defensive boons/on demand condition removal/so forth. It boils down to you not liking the playstyle, but in reality there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. You just have to learn to adapt or…. well, or don’t and just keep crying about it until your tears drown all of the minions.

1. option – Ogre. Extra pet, tons of raw power and blanket 4% damage? Hell to the yes.
2. PROBABLY Lyssa now that charge triggers it.
3. Melandru
4. Vamprirism.

Kryshade.6075:

All this arguing back and forth is silly.

You simply can’t argue with the fact that MM falls into the passive build category. You have passive healing coming from Blood Fiend and siphons and you have passive damage that comes from all the minions. You can’t say it’s not a passive build because you still get to click some buttons from time to time. Stop trying to defend the build as anything but.

If Anet was smart and wanted to leave MM as a viable option without it being a brain dead no skill build then they would take away the passive healing/passive attacks and make it so that minions ONLY interact when their skill is triggered. Make it so that minions don’t absorb any damage or count towards AoE cap and don’t intercept projectiles.

Then and ONLY then would this build not be considered something lame and for the skill-less masses.

If they did this, then it would be useless. Where’s the compensation for the load of downsides? Where’s our protection, aegis, endurance regen, etc? You know. Stuff that’s also passive bonuses once applied (sometimes not even needing to be applied)… You pretend MM is unique, it’s only unique in its form of play, which is good, but passive benefits are absolutely NOT unique to MM. You, just like any other player who hates “x” build, has a bias and only wants 1 thing, to destroy what you a.) don’t understand and b.) what you don’t like. By that logic boons, conditions, criticals, 80% of the traits and abilities with secondary effects should just not exist.

Why not have the game simplified to block, roll, kick and punch? Oh wait… That’s Street Fighter… Go enjoy. This IS an MMO, and thus not everything has to be streamlined. You just have to adapt and learn to deal with things that annoy you. Not complain until it’s dead. (Which is what usually happens anyways)

One person said it beautifully. MM is a class about strategy and setting up the target for failure, while most classes are built less “strategically” and more based around twitch play and button mashing. I’m not here to say either is wrong, but don’t shoot the other guy because it is how they prefer to play. I can guarantee you good MMs have more to worry about/watch over than just about any class you play, which often boil down to combos, aoe spams and evading a lot. The game isn’t hard, and doesn’t need to be oversimplified because you can’t deal with 1 thing or the other.

Also, to Sorrow, this is why I said drop the Death shroud conversation. We’re misinterpreting what the other is saying entirely. I didn’t say I use it minimally as in rarely use it. I mean I stand in it minimally so that I can use it for twitch reactions and DS abilities on demand. I said this because you were going on and on about huge LF pools, but essentially the only time you sit in your “huge” LF pool is when you’re about to die anyways. If you’re on the winning side of a fight sitting in DS makes you lose traction. Lets just say we’re saying the same thing and fighting about misunderstanding of word choice and leave it at that.

I didn’t read all this craziness. But maybe if they nerf Zerker they can also look into Clerics/settlers and maybe let people tank and increase threat modifiers based on toughness values. <3 Make my day.

Blood fiend is viable to kill, and little known fact it is simply a weaker Healing signet with a TON of drawbacks, one being that it CAN die. And the point of saying they can die means even in best scenario the added 250 MAX dps is only against a dummy target. Point being: it wasn’t as big of a boost as can be claimed. And with the nerfs it evens itself out a bit. The changes simply made all mm builds more oriented toward damage than hybrid/bunkering.

Yes clutter is an issue. But one culprit of clutter shown in just about EVERY picture of people complaining about MM is that enemy pet name plates are on. (As is in my sig) if nameplates are turned off for enemy minions (not players), that clutter is far less HINDERING. Fact is, Blood fiend, Flesh wurm and Bone fiend are ranged attackers with no flashy animations. That isn’t very hindering. People have a hard time even noticing bone minions, so what are the biggest issues? Fleshy is too big and shadow fiend is annoying. (You can’t even have all of these at once). Now, class stacking IS an issue. But this isn’t just an mm issue. 5 warriors, 5 mesmers, 5 nade engies, 5 guardians is all annoying regardless of clutter. Maybe they need a 2 cap per class on spvp teams? (solo and team). That would alleviate some of that issue, plus fixing name plates and life suddenly isn’t so bad.

Additionally, like they did with tab targeting, make aoes prioritize any players before minions, then anything hitting minions is just bonus for the other player, and doesn’t stop them from hitting the primary targets. I’d be fine with this! But people would rather kitten about mm and not discuss the real issues or ways to fix it without saying it should just be banished. Or instead of wanting everything handed to you on a platter you could think, “Wow, minions are an interesting COUNTER to Aoe spam, as they provide Aoe absorbing UTILITY to a group.” But nah, its way easier to complain if you die to something. I don’t like belong stunned… Maybe they should remove all stuns just because it messes with the flow of my playing, right? Its a slippery slope.

Also if you don’t tab target and only click that isn’t an mm issue. That’s a l2p issue. You’re intended to use both not one or the other. No sympathy given. That’s like complaining you can’t kite effectively because you refuse to strafe and prefer to backpedal… Also they ready changed it so tab targeting prefers players. People still suggest this, and don’t realize this is already the case. Goes to show how much they test before they start complaining.

And I never said DS isn’t vital for survivability. You’re taking what I say out of context to make a moot point. I said I don’t sit in it. If you sit in it any time you have some life force and drain it constantly, you won’t have any when you need to twitch play using doom or suck up unavoidable damage while being stunlocked. Clearly you aren’t getting this, nor trying to get what I’m saying so just leave death shroud out of this. Point is while DS is a good defensive tool, it stops you from doing a lot of other things when using it, and life force isn’t ALWAYS entirely readily available, meaning even our anti cc measure (doom) and gap closer (dark path) isn’t always available. Hence; its best to never fully drain yourself of life force below 10-15%.

I don’t have time to get into a full debate right now, class soon. But I will later. And you’re incredibly wrong about staff. Staff is superior for power in tpvp for group utility. I run staff/Dagger focus. DF/AW works too but I’ve only ever felt it lowers survivability, and takes away your best shot at having any cleave damage/Kiting potential in dire moments. Especially since axe 1 is terrible and axe 2 easily gets interrupted due to line of sight unlike dagger 2. Staff provides Chill, poison, spot condi removal, a blast finisher, Aoe fear* from 1200 range and Aoe regen. All of which is super useful. The nerf of Putrid mark, Blast finisher weakness, and moving greater marks to Masters were huge nerfs since FotM is mandatory. This is the set up I was running in top 10. Simply put axe isn’t very good/useful and further holes mm into single target pressure, effectively making them cruddy team fighters.

I agree Death nova can be problematic but Fetid consumption is mandatory for a good mm in high end or conditions wreck you. And it even helps alleviate issues with immobilize, fear, chill and cripple. Death nova is OP in the sense that its niche. If you have 3 mms on point and people are aoeing a lot, people take a ton of passive damage in Aoe poison fields. Again, that’s a problem with class stacking and the trait being niche (and in my opinion) bad and bad for the game. So, sure you have any point you want to make about death nova.

As far as the death shroud, I won’t take back what i said. I use DS a lot, but I never sit in it for it to drain because while I do I’m wasting time I could be ccing, healing from minion hits, keeping them alive or resummoning dead ones. Also I never risk not having any lf in case of an emergency doom needed while being cced. Believe me, I know how to play mm lol.

And for the siphon damage, you’re right. I forgot to factor in the double hit from bone fiend, but also many mms (who aren’t trying to win as passively as possible or know how to use blood fiend well) run consume conditions. (I do however use Blood fiend). And not all mm run full minions, and will drop shadow/wurm for a utility like well of power for tpvp. While more than it used to be, full mm bars are more viable than they were. Yes it can stack to maybe about 250 dps, you have to realize they die, some get sacrificed, don’t have perfect uptime etc. we’re not fighting dummies. (This is actually why mm is so powerful against noobs.)

Also, all minions are squishy… 16k, 25k hp all is an illusion. Pets don’t have evades, a huge self heal or fancy footwork to back that HP up. In real fights (not paper notes) they die very frequently and very fast. Especially when the enemy team has an engineer, warrior*, Condi necro, so on and so-forth. They are strong 1 on 1 and don’t die too much if the enemy isn’t one of the above, which is why they end up as side-bunkers. That said, smart players, specifically thieves can kite minions away from the platforms and fight with relatively little pressure, since they know they won’t have the point until you are gone, they don’t feel obligated to fight on point. And again, if this turns into 2v1 you don’t have NEARLY the staying power of most true-bunks. This includes having no stability and cc breakers.

Mm damage could used toned down a little and death nova could be canned for all I care, but Mm are NOT without their glaring flaws that people dismiss so easily. Likely be fuse they speak while having no clue whatsoever. And considering I’m one of the VERY few MM to have played in the top 50, I don’t see how a lot of people could tell me otherwise. I’ve never once denied that MM is an absolute noob killer. But it’s not the only one and it’s not even close to the top of the meta in tpvp, only annoying in niche teams.

sorrow.2364:

ronpierce.2760:

I love reading stuff like this. I played MM since the beginning and when I did and joined Tpvp and said “Hey, I’m MM” they LAUGHED at me and made fun of me and made comments like “have fun dying” and “way to be useless”. A year later, not much has changed, we got some minor buffs and then some minor nerfs and NOW everyone is complaining about it. Gotta love how popularity determines how OP something is. :P

Actually, a lot changed since launch.

Active of minion skill become instant, except of the Flesh Golem charge, which is an huge change.
The survivability and the healing provided by Blood Fiend has been greatly buffed.
The DS bug was fixed, buffing the survivability of Necromancers with proper Life Force generation (so MMs) greatly.
Vampiric Master was changed to also deal damage, scaling with power, buffing the damage of minions of approximately 100 each with Soldier Amulet (HUGE buff).
Death Nova was changed to deal damage.
Shadow Fiend active now gives life force.

That changes alone were huge buffs to minionmasters.
Before all of those buffs, minion damage was ok-ish, while the master was easy to pin down, making a good build for new players because the ease to play while learning the game mechanics.
Then add this to the fact that Elementalists completely fell out of meta and there you have the full picture.

Now the master is incredibly tough and minions hit like a truck, making it extremely strong in unorganized gamemodes, like SoloQ and pugging TeamQ.
Not to say the huge clutter they create.

With the change to Bloodthirst they actually nerfed the healing I receive from them, even if they do more damage. They nerfed staff in various crippling ways. I don’t use shadow fiend, and not that many do because its pretty squishy. The casted pet abilities only really affected rigor mortis, which in the grand scheme of things wasn’t that big. MMs don’t spend much time in DS because the more time you do the less you can cc your enemies and your minions die, and you also don’t gain healing from them when you are in it, its actually kind of setting yourself up for failure. A good mm can survive just fine with little DS use. That said, they also nerfed DS in the sense that it has roll over damage from bursts.

I didn’t say they didn’t get buffed, but they also received nerfs too, and none of them except the siphon damage really changed much. And the damage buff (at the cost of some healing and a screwed up staff) was about 90×5/3= 150 dps buff in BEST conditions, assuming you never use your bone minion ability and pets never die. Or you use shadow fiend which is notorious for dying. Of course this is high end tpvp I’m talking about, not 1v1, which everyone should know by now isn’t how they balance.

Stx.4857:

How many MM Necro’s are there in the high level PvP scene?

How many Warriors are there?

Warrior is a very passive profession as well so… yeah. Not sure how this complaint is legitimate.

To be fair, I was top 10 TPvP with MM, but only when paired with a Spirit ranger roaming does it even work.. :/ And that’s not because of being MM. It’s buff duplication.

The funny thing about this is in a moving pvp environment, its not that simple if you play one. Its senseless QQ because people have no clue how it works. Its an easy build to be “okay” with because it does damage if you don’t attack, but given its weaknesses (No cc breaks, lack of control of pets, terrain, you know stuff you have to deal with versus good players) MM requires a hell of a lot of skill to play correctly. For instance, each summon has a long cast time mid-fight, making it hard to get off versus good players and they are essential to even staying alive because without them you just simply die. They also have an ability tied to each. Then we have death shroud, 5 moves there and 2 weapon swaps. That puts MM at upward 26 abilities versus many classes 16-18 they have to use regularly. Plus we have to manage our Life force because without it we lose basically any defenses against stuns (doom and Life force absorbing damage).

What makes MM powerful isn’t the pets doing damage, that’s avoidable. What makes them powerful is the amount of CC they can do (BY PRESSING BUTTONS), allowing their pets to be useful, plus adding on Dagger/Axe damage, they can do decent damage themselves. If you die to an MM running circles you’re terrible, sorry to say. Minions do like 200-300 damage hits, and 4 of them require them to be in melee range, and can be snared. Phantasms can land hits as big kitten -6k, on top of stealth, Phantasmal defender, pseudo Healing Signet etc.

Is it a little cheap? Sure. I’d rather do 50% more damage and my pets do 50% less. That’d be great! Then I’d still be worth having around if moa’d or my pets die to the insane amount of (apparently skillful?) aoe spam and other garbage.

In other words. MM may be a little cheap, but any good one will tell you it’s not brainless/skill-less as it takes more button coordination than most set ups. Only people who have no clue what they’re talking about can say that it’s skill-less. The bigger problem is that the entire pvp system in GW2 does nothing but promotes cheesy playstyles because the only legit ones get pushed out of the meta because cheese and easy playing is better than having to jumping through hoops just to perform decently. This, on top of the fact that the game simply looks like spam anyways, it gives the false impression that the MM does nothing but spam.

And the last little tid-bit, if an MM is running circles a lot in a team fight its because they have 0 cc breaks or survivability when locked down, so yeah, they kinda have to run. But when they’re running in circles they’re doing 50% of the damage they could be and FAR less CC than they could be, all of which needs the necromancer to actually be doing their job for.

I love reading stuff like this. I played MM since the beginning and when I did and joined Tpvp and said “Hey, I’m MM” they LAUGHED at me and made fun of me and made comments like “have fun dying” and “way to be useless”. A year later, not much has changed, we got some minor buffs and then some minor nerfs and NOW everyone is complaining about it. Gotta love how popularity determines how OP something is. :P

FeelsAlright.5860:

ronpierce.2760:

That is actually pretty stupid. Endure pain isn’t an unvuln, its a 4 sec ward off 1 type, same with zerker stance. It takes 3 utilities at once to have a pseudo-invuln that allows holding/capping a point but heres the thing. If someone pops all 3 stances just to remain on a point for 5-6 seconds with ease, you should definitely be able to kill him afterwards.

On the otherhand, they are “stances” I could see stances being limited to 1 on at a time, but they’d had to increase some of the durations to make that nerf not overshoot its goal…

So what’s the difference between Protect Me (Ranger utility that makes you take 0 damage) and endure pain? Protect me stops point capture why shouldn’t endure pain?

I don’t know much about “protect me” but tbh if its that similar, EP shouldn’t be nerfed, Protect me should just allow cap holding… The game starts to feel clunky with all the “cant hold a cap when defending yourself” rules. The onlything that I’ve ever supported was stealth stopping it, but that should be pretty obvious why.

That is actually pretty stupid. Endure pain isn’t an unvuln, its a 4 sec ward off 1 type, same with zerker stance. It takes 3 utilities at once to have a pseudo-invuln that allows holding/capping a point but heres the thing. If someone pops all 3 stances just to remain on a point for 5-6 seconds with ease, you should definitely be able to kill him afterwards.

On the otherhand, they are “stances” I could see stances being limited to 1 on at a time, but they’d had to increase some of the durations to make that nerf not overshoot its goal…

Furiousbeard.7602:

ronpierce.2760:

Just out of curiosity, I’ve ran into an issue. I literally CANNOT 1v1 a good thief who uses Dagger pistol because they can basically keep me near perma-blinded, specifically with things like
Steal -> Black Powder -> Warrior stolen whirl combo.
Then Black powder -> Whirl elite.

I play hambow, it just seems like everything is far too slow to shrug it off, I’m basically forced to hold it as long as I can or leave and let them have it. 8 seconds of zerker stance just doesn’t cut it usually it seems.

Tips, please?

Minus condi food, warhorn with quick breathing trait, berserker stance, cleansing ire trait.

I’m talking about Spvp. No condi food, warhorn isn’t the best option in tpvp unless you’re bunkering, Zerker stance is 60 second cooldown, any thief with a brain can wait to use their combo until its gone and just run for 8 seconds or teleport away. Cleansing ire, cool I can remove 1 of the blinds with Longbow.

These thieves I’ve fought in tPvP in the top 100 tier in tpvp were not “cowering” at my kitten F1 longbow burst so, either you guys are fighting terrible thieves, lying or just aren’t in the higher tiers because some of the thieves I’ve fought rank 50+ had no issues dealing with Zerker stance.

Mind you I’m also trying to not lose cap points in these scenarios.

They need to do away with the “low” hp tier all together, and just shave off a tad bit of the sustain for Guardians. Thieves and Elementalists could use the hp boost. The game has become too bursty/rushy for people to survive these days. Hell I main a necromancer and even with my large hp pool it just doesn’t feel like enough.

^ I use Ogre runes. They’re my favorite for rushing.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Sikari-s-MM-Duscussion-Suggestions-II/first#post3244609

You can use mine if you wish, its at the bottom of the second post I believe.

style.6173:

Summarize really fast: Do not just standing in blinding powder.

I can take advice, but stop saying stupid things that make it sound easy. The powder isn’t the issue, its the whirl combo in it they can do every 21 seconds on top of the initial blind.

I actually kind of agree Spite should be toned down, SYs can stay reduced in PvP. I heard someone say yesterday that the TTK in this game is too high, completely blew my mind. x.X

Just out of curiosity, I’ve ran into an issue. I literally CANNOT 1v1 a good thief who uses Dagger pistol because they can basically keep me near perma-blinded, specifically with things like
Steal -> Black Powder -> Warrior stolen whirl combo.
Then Black powder -> Whirl elite.

I play hambow, it just seems like everything is far too slow to shrug it off, I’m basically forced to hold it as long as I can or leave and let them have it. 8 seconds of zerker stance just doesn’t cut it usually it seems.

Tips, please?

Point is, team work is more fun if its preventing death, not playing the classes best suited for stomps/rallies and playing on the floor. This argument will never end though. Some people like it, some people hate it, its certainly too late to change it, but I KNOW, 100%, this whole game would have been better if it didn’t have it from the start, and was balanced around not having it in the first place.

I just wanted to ask a general question. I’ve been running soldiers with a Rampager’s amulet (mostly for the precision but it works overall, too) running 20/0/20/0/30 Hambow in tpvp with Distracting strike.

My question is, do you think it’s worth having Distracting strikes or do you think I’d do better if I just ran 10/0/30/0/30 and took Merciless Hammer instead?

I’d gain about 100 toughness/healing, about 75 more power due to the 25 point in defense and gain Merciless hammer but I’d lose 10% condi duration and the confusion.

What do you think is better? I’ve been running Confusion cause that seems to be the popular way but I’m wondering if its totally worth it or not. thanks for the heads up!

Healing Signet is good. People have searched for the mysterious fountain of youth, but little did we know, the answer to an immortal life span is a signet. A Signet of healing. No more does one have to dread the fear of death, instead, they must take a simple warrior’s oath and walk the mists as immortal gods for all eternity while playing the same game type for hundreds of years to come!

- High Warlord Sikari, 2013 (Engraved)

clint.5681:

No such thing as exploits in PvP, we know that from experience now.

Almost said exploit, but Clint has a rock solid point. :P

Its not fun because it hard stops certain classes from 1v2ing but others it doesn’t. IE stability/stealth classes have a huge advantage over say a necromancer. Its not about the victory, its about the imbalance and dismissing of skill because a single mechanic. And honestly PvP is where I hate downed state the LEAST. It ruined pve entirely.

I’m just going to promise you if downed stat was never in the game in the first place, it would have been a better game overall. Yes, it’s too late to go back now and taking it out would cause more issues, but I will not retract my statement, it IS a major flaw in the entire game from the beginning. This is across the WHOLE game, sPvP, wvw and especially what became of PvE.

Valentin.2073:

I just want to thank anet for the new water spirit. it’s really fun to use.

I just love how you ever had the audacity to complain about minion masters. :P

Every 3rd hit should be earth shaker, but not ground targeted, just right in front of you.
/signed.

I actually think “Sword crits cripple enemies” would be good and go nicely with Leg specialist. Sword already has issue with moving targets as it is because F1 is so kitten clunky.

scerevisiae.1972:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

clint.5681:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

down state is working as intended, there is no reason to remove it.

if you fail to finish off your downed opponents, it is your fault, understand?

Thats your personal opinion

it is a fact, actually.

no it’s an opinion as well.

what is a fact though, is that this game’s PVP has failed fairly spectacularly by any objective measure, and it is the opinion of many, that downed state/rallying is one of the major causes of that failure.

even by the straw poll in this thread (http://strawpoll.me/853596/r), nearly half the voters want to see DS removed, who knows what proportion of the players that have already quit would also have wanted it gone. it stands to reason (and to bayesian statistical theory) that the proportion would have been higher, possibly much higher.

Not to mention those who don’t migrate to GW2 because of it. It, as a feature, has caused more issues in the entire game than I’d say just about any innovative feature has caused in a game in a very long time.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

^ that’s your personal opinion.

Actually… some of it isn’t opinion. They had to design the game the way they did because (especially in PvE) if they didn’t make things hit so hard and had downed state, no one would ever die. So as far as the state of HOW pve is, that’s not opinion. Downed state definitely caused that. It’s my opinion that it’s awful, but as for cause and effect, that isn’t opinion.

•Fixed a bug that caused the ranger trait Eagle Eye to grant fury on critical hits.

•Fixed a bug that caused the ranger trait Eagle Eye to grant fury on critical hits.
Just now.

I’ve come back to say, HOWEVER. This trait could use some life. While CD reduction (imo) is not the life it needs. It does need help.

The cripple idea was not bad, but I don’t think quite hits the mark.
But along the same idea, what if it was:
Increase critical hit chance with swords by 10%, and increases condition duration by 10% while wielding a sword. Just a random idea. Feel free to help me out. :P

^ Downed state ruined PvE too because bosses have to have so many 1 shot mechanics and hit for 10k/swing in order to kill anyone otherwise they just get raised over and over. Now. If PVE had no downed state, mobs could hit for less, and the “1 shot mechanics” could become hard HITTING mechanics, then people would be able to survive normally without much “stress” with healing, but over time not be able to keep up if they got hit by the hard hitting mechanics, and once you die you die. And if toughness meant a bit more, this would allow people to pseudo “tank” and not need a healer because tanks would be their own healers and pve would be a LOT less boring. I can’t even stomach pve right now because the whole PVE scene is kill EVERY boss in less than 30 seconds, and run full berserker, and constantly expect people to go down because of all the hard hitting aoe that you can’t even really avoid.

I said it once and I’ll say it again, Down State is a cancer to the game because the amount that has been (poorly) balanced around it is ASTOUNDING. It’s not that interesting of a mechanic and the damages it has causes greatly out-do the benefits it may have for select players who “enjoy it”.

- No, they have poorly enough designed traits. Lets not give them the idea to make traits that screw you over now too.

- No, comboing is part of the game. A resolve-bar would be a better solution.

- No.

- Yes.

Okay. Fight me 1v1 using High Warlord Sikari, I’ll bet your little signet won’t hold up. :P

magicweaver.2695:

ronpierce.2760:

Scarran.9845:

13 pages and numerous threads later and still not an official response. This is part of the reason why people are leaving, the lack of communication is astounding.

I understand that they cannot respond to every post in every section of the forum but the Necro forum has seen more activity this week than in the past month alone. Yet despite this all we have is a big wall of silence, not even we are aware of how bad it is and have something in the works but it may take time. Not even a sorry we made a boo boo and it should never have been released like this. Or even a pinocchio style response of the signet is great just give it time to settle in or you need to learn to play.

In all forms of business ignoring the customer never leads to fantastic results, all it does is drive their business elsewhere. As we have heard previously they have numerous teams that deal with different aspects but by the looks of it they forgot to add a forum team designed to communicate between both developer and playerbase keeping each other informed if any major concerns crop up. Surely its easier to have a team looking over the forums who monitor which posts are of the biggest concern and can respond in the thread that they have passed our concerns onto the developers and are awaiting a response. Something as simple as that is enough to show that at least they are being made aware of the issue, as right now all we have is word of mouth that they are infact aware we have a problem.

I’ve had:
2 “We’ve noted the concerns and will pass the information to the balance team”

and Josh said “Before we do any changes, we need to spend a* LOT* of time playing with it before we can decide if it really needs to change.”

So the “official” answer is, it’s on the back burner.

That is still word of mouth that they are even aware. Not saying you aren’t being honest, but where do they say that? The point made was that it’s not coming from a Dev, it always comes from someone like yourself that they are aware.

Besides that, the statement saying “Before we do any changes, we need to spend a* LOT* of time playing with it before we can decide if it really needs to change.” is ridiculous. Shouldn’t that have been done BEFORE release? Shouldn’t they already know it needed work?

And so that points even further this was a haphazard addition, either because they admit they didn’t test it properly, or it wasn’t implemented properly, or it is bugged.

Either way, if they did say that, it’s a non-answer.

Just to answer your question, the first 2 responses were from O’Dell and another Dev via forum-pms.

The conversation with Josh was in-game. I’ve not seen a single public response, specifically by anything who can fix it.

Scarran.9845:

13 pages and numerous threads later and still not an official response. This is part of the reason why people are leaving, the lack of communication is astounding.

I understand that they cannot respond to every post in every section of the forum but the Necro forum has seen more activity this week than in the past month alone. Yet despite this all we have is a big wall of silence, not even we are aware of how bad it is and have something in the works but it may take time. Not even a sorry we made a boo boo and it should never have been released like this. Or even a pinocchio style response of the signet is great just give it time to settle in or you need to learn to play.

In all forms of business ignoring the customer never leads to fantastic results, all it does is drive their business elsewhere. As we have heard previously they have numerous teams that deal with different aspects but by the looks of it they forgot to add a forum team designed to communicate between both developer and playerbase keeping each other informed if any major concerns crop up. Surely its easier to have a team looking over the forums who monitor which posts are of the biggest concern and can respond in the thread that they have passed our concerns onto the developers and are awaiting a response. Something as simple as that is enough to show that at least they are being made aware of the issue, as right now all we have is word of mouth that they are infact aware we have a problem.

I’ve had:
2 “We’ve noted the concerns and will pass the information to the balance team”

and Josh said “Before we do any changes, we need to spend a* LOT* of time playing with it before we can decide if it really needs to change.”

So the “official” answer is, it’s on the back burner.

Thanks, Xenu. We just need Engineer, Thief and Elementalist now, but I find these skills odd. Some of them I understand due to pathing, or having to do with summoning an entity in mid-air, but all of the others absolutely make no sense. For example “Hold the Line” shout works for Guardian, which is just boons, but “For Great Justice” doesn’t work as a warrior in mid-air. Again, it’s just boons. This definitely causes some clunkiness, and should be changed so that all instants work one way or the other.

Dalanor.5387:

Balance 101, never compare one class to another, especially if one is the warrior.

While I can agree with this (actually) based on many skills, when it comes to healing, you very well can relate heals. Especially if both are high based HP classes. And also, a heal on a 28-35 second cooldown for 5.2k base (if all goes well). on a necromancer is terribad.

Silverthorn.8576:

The passive is a good idea and should help in attrition fight but the big problem is the active which can be counter play during and after casting…

In sPvP Necromancer is far away from the result the devs want when nobody want to engage a necromancer alone but still needed for corrupt boon.
In PvE Necromancer is undesirable in all the content because they bring nothing to a group but dps.
In WvW the Necromancer is in a good spot due to its high capacity to debuff in zerg group and its burst condition spec in roaming (which becomes out of control with the righ consumables).

The problem with the passive is it heals for LESS than healing signet per trigger, it has to be triggered by being hit (taking damage) and has a 1 second cooldown. Healing signet heals for more per tick (base), heals every second on the dot (not lost time) and can heal when blocking/kiting. Meaning healing signet can net gained health while this signet really cannot (passively).