Guild Wars 2

The thing is, you realize often time people who are afkers in the match, it isn’t always their fault. Sometimes ques take forever and people forget they were even in que so they go AFK and get sucked it. Blame it on the lack of a pre-entrance “Ready” button and the lack of ability to fill missing slots.

Cush, we’re referring to instant spells. AI Shatters, and utilities that have no “cast time” indicated on the tooltip. I didn’t check if it worked with Mesmers since I wasn’t playing one. Feel free to go through any 0 cast spells, jump and report back with which ones do and which ones do not work.

Bump for an answer to why some abilities are like this.

To those saying downed state is in replace of healers, that is incorrect. Everyone has self heals and evades in replace of healers. It patches that role nicely. And if downed state was out of the game they’d take measures to increase the games ttk in both pvp and pve. Mobs would hit for less so you’d be able to sustain yourself with your heals better, while the risks would be in the mechanics, not 10k auto swings and instant death abilities. In pvp self heals already work just fine in replace of healers. Self heal + anytype of support build keeps people alive. Healers would put it over the top and no one would ever die. Downed state is NOT in replace of healers, it’s just their “interesting” mechanic that isn’t so interesting and causes Very bad drawbacks across the ENTIRE game.

I don’t remember them taking it out, and I honestly never have issues with targeting when it comes to people with AI. o.O Ever.

…….. They already did fix it. It’s called “Tab targeting prefers Players > Pets” and will shuffle players before even viewing minions. So;

Step 1: Deselect the minion you clicked on.
Step 2: Tab once.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit.

Update: Apparently it spreads across the classes, its just really selective as to which abilities it affects this way. These are all of the ones for Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior and Guardian.
Necromancer:
- Plague Signet
- Corrupt Boon
- Doom (DS3)
- Plague Form abilities.

Guardian:
- Shield of Wrath (Focus 5)
- Wall of Reflection
- (Side note) Stand your ground DOES work, so Balance stance/Signet of Dolyak should. It isn’t stability related.
- Signet of Judgement
- “Retreat!”

Ranger:
- Lightning Reflexes (I could understand movement-based holds.)
- “Protect Me!”
- “Search and Rescue”
- “Sic Em!”
- Signet of Stone
- Signet of the Hunt
- Crippling Shot

Warrior:
– “For Great Justice!”
- “On My Mark!”
- Berserker Stance
– Balance Stance
– Dolyak Signet

I really don’t understand the different rules. Why do some work when mid-air, and others do not…

P.S. This can cause Balance Stance to not properly work as a stun breaker for launches depending on how you’re hit by them.

You may have a hard time justifying a buff to Impale for some people.

Bhawb.7408:

Uh… wrong forums?

On a side note: HAVE YOU BETRAYED US??!?!?!?! WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!

Well… Probably because ANet hates Necromancers and it’s easier to play a warrior and actually win matches. >_> Maybe it’ll send ANet a message. Probably not because if it involves necromancers they tend to not notice anything at all, but meh. x.X

And yeah I moved it to another forum. I was just in the wrong tab when I hit “Create Thread”.

So, I noticed today things have felt a bit clunky. And maybe it has been this way for a while, but I never noticed it until recently (so I think its new?) but warrior instants don’t trigger when jumping like other classes do. I realized today I felt like I was having massive amounts of skill lag, and I’m thinking its just because instant skills aren’t triggering mid-air like most classes do. For instance any time I try to jump terrain and use my Berserker stance to not be feared/cced, I’ve noticed I get feared and look down and it just didn’t go off. Now I know why.

Is this intended or a bug, and is it new? I tested 3-4 other classes, all instant abilities would go off even mid-air, but on warrior these spells are completely locked when falling/midair:
– “For Great Justice!”
- “On My Mark!”
- Berserker Stance
– Balance Stance
– Dolyak Signet

All other shouts/stances/signets that are instant work normally. I thought maybe this was an new feature to stop Spectral Walk fall-jukes, but it works as it always has. Could be that it has always been this way and I don’t play warrior enough to notice it, but this is pretty silly…

(Side note)And also, I’ve having some issues with Earth shaker having a REALLY slow reaction time when I use it, sometimes I don’t even leap at all, some time later I just teleport to roughly where I wanted to go, sometimes it just triggers super slow, and other times it doesn’t go off at all (which may be related to the bug with being immobilized in mid-air).

The only thing I can really say to this is, just for the sake of getting rid of some clunkiness of the game, just allow us to start casting mid-air… We can already do if it we jump after we cast, so what’s the huge difference? Stuff like this is just annoying to deal with, especially with all the teleports in the game, sometimes jumping is necessary with terrain, and it gives some classes weird/unintended advantages and its just clunky feeling in general.

Accidentally posted in the wrong section before.

Wrong thread. Sorry!

So, I noticed today things have felt a bit clunky. And maybe it has been this way for a while, but I never noticed it until recently (so I think its new?) but warrior instants don’t trigger when jumping like other classes do. I realized today I felt like I was having massive amounts of skill lag, and I’m thinking its just because instant skills aren’t triggering mid-air like most classes do. For instance any time I try to jump terrain and use my Berserker stance to not be feared/cced, I’ve noticed I get feared and look down and it just didn’t go off. Now I know why.

Is this intended or a bug, and is it new? I tested 3-4 other classes, all instant abilities would go off even mid-air, but on warrior these spells are completely locked when falling/midair:
- “For Great Justice!”
- “On My Mark!”
- Berserker Stance
- Balance Stance
- Dolyak Signet

All other shouts/stances/signets that are instant work normally. I thought maybe this was an new feature to stop Spectral Walk fall-jukes, but it works as it always has. Could be that it has always been this way and I don’t play warrior enough to notice it, but this is pretty silly…

(Side note)And also, I’ve having some issues with Earth shaker having a REALLY slow reaction time when I use it, sometimes I don’t even leap at all, some time later I just teleport to roughly where I wanted to go, sometimes it just triggers super slow, and other times it doesn’t go off at all (which may be related to the bug with being immobilized in mid-air).

The only thing I can really say to this is, just for the sake of getting rid of some clunkiness of the game, just allow us to start casting mid-air… We can already do if it we jump after we cast, so what’s the huge difference? Stuff like this is just annoying to deal with, especially with all the teleports in the game, sometimes jumping is necessary with terrain, and it gives some classes weird/unintended advantages and its just clunky feeling in general.

Rednik.3809:

ronpierce.2760:

No, things would just be changed/balanced accordingly to not having downed state. Why is it such a hard concept to understand, that with the removal, some other things would change a bit too to compensate.

Anet, plz change all game mechanics, rebalance all professions, healing, damage mitigation, HP, burst, defensive cooldowns, traits, PvE encounters, etc.! It’s not that hard and Ron is such a good and adequate guy, his personal gameplay totally deserves what amount of work!

Here’s a good one:
“Anet, please never innovate and stay exactly how you are so the game can die in peace.”
Mine was much shorter and to the point, how about you stop being a smart kitten .

feliscatus.1430:

If there was any chance of them doing this, it would have been in beta.

Yeah I know. This game has a massive lack of ability to change/renovate/innovate. That’s going to be an issue down the road.

clint.5681:

It’s obviously called “Vain” poetry #duh #obvious #shakepear2014

I think it’s called “All Is Vain”, he’s clearly a genius and would only name it accordingly so the reader knows just what is in vain, that being “all”.

Cynz.9437:

my thief spends half of the time in downed state ( lol aoe meta), but in many cases i actually get to rally tnks to stealth xD

if downed state was removed i would have to roll bunker war/guard…-_-

No, things would just be changed/balanced accordingly to not having downed state. Why is it such a hard concept to understand, that with the removal, some other things would change a bit too to compensate.

GankSinatra.2653:

Darnis.4056:

Downstate is the best thing that ever happened to this game.. I can’t believe how people can’t understand that if there was no downstate Burst DPS builds wouldn’t even be run and this safety meta would become a Special olympics safety meta.

Can you believe that balance patches would still appear after downstate would be gone? But ofcourse its easier using ‘special olympics’ arguments and assuming it will suddenly be in tomorrow ruining the game.

At any rate i think a single toggle would help both sides of the argument. And when we get deathmatches i’d really really want the option there as well…but that is going to be a little more difficult.

This is my point. Yes, it’d need some balancing across the game. Mobs in PvE could hit for less than 10k per attack, and ttk would have to go up, but even those “side effects” would be good for the game… Hence why Downed state is a cancer to the game. Downed state isn’t the balance of the insane burst. It’s the CAUSE of it all!

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

ronpierce.2760:

felivear.1536:

Downed state is great. It separates the great from the good. It also highly encourages team work.

The only thing I hate about downed state is rallying. If you attacked a player and did 1 damage to him and he dies 50 yards away, you get an instant rez. Dem don’t makes no senses.

Incorrect. You know what separates the Great from the good? Not dying in the first place.

well, i could say the same.
i.e. “great” players can finish what they started.

downed is not defeated.

Its not “defeated” because of the game mechanic keeps you alive, but in all reality, yes, you lost. Downed state from then on out is a crutch. It isn’t interesting to come back and win a 2v1 just because you have downed state and the odds are stacked against any player no matter how good they are in trying to stomp a person in a 2v1. Downed state may add a few interesting plays, but it kills a lot more and ruins a lot more of the game than not having it at all.

felivear.1536:

Downed state is great. It separates the great from the good. It also highly encourages team work.

The only thing I hate about downed state is rallying. If you attacked a player and did 1 damage to him and he dies 50 yards away, you get an instant rez. Dem don’t makes no senses.

Incorrect. You know what separates the Great from the good? Not dying in the first place.

Dee Jay.2460:

Downed-State is the safety net for bad players and gives the bigger numbers and even greater upper hand.

It’s broken and unfair in ways that have been expanded on before extensively and it is by far the worst feature in GW2, of that I am sure.

In fact playing without downed-state is what I look forward to most in coming MMOs.

Hell, I even think PVE would be more fun if it wasn’t built around 1 shotting everyone and expecting people to rez one another… Downed state is pretty much cancer to the game. :/

I just wanted to say that heal is like what? 1.6k heal + absorb over 3 seconds? 30 sec cd or so? (Can’t remember off top). But regardless.

In 30 seconds healing signet can heal for 12k over 30 seconds. You’d have to do 11k damage/healing within the 3 second window in order for it to be better than healing signet. And if you did 11k to a warrior in this stance…. You must have been trying. o.O

Not sure what all this Longbow Sword sword stuff is. I was playing 0/0/30/10/30 “HGH” Hammer/Longbow and tearing kitten up in yoloques o.o Soldier’s ammy+zerker jewel Might duration runes and Battle sigils. Keep 25 might, 4000 attack and beat the kitten out of people. I’m not sure if it’s “OP” but its fun as all hell.

Fortus.6175:

No.

Instants are instants. If you put a CD on instants from chaining with each other then you would have a bunch of classes’ core mechanics broken.

I wouldn’t say so, but even still, this could be only for utilities/weapon skills, that’s part of the discussion, work with it before you jump to “no”.

Personally, if a guardian couldn’t go F1/2/3/4 in .1 second I’d kinda be okay with that, but for sake of argument, assume all F-abilities were unaffected and I’d say activating Death shroud wouldn’t trigger it as Death shroud is essentially a weapon swap. Does that fix your dilemma?

Preface; I’m not saying I’m suggesting this, right off. I actually wanted to discuss this so please, no hostility, I’m not trying to nerf anyone!

My question is do you think it would be beneficial for the game if “Instants” had a 1 second global cooldown (Kind of like Putrid Explosion does from bone minions) across all instant spells only, so people had to think out their use of instant casts, rather than front load them via keyboard macro or “facerolling”. The reason I suggest this is it would cause people to have to consider the order of buttons they press, it’d help with spam a little bit, and it could potentially increase skill factor in timing player’s instant ability gcd, so at least there would be a little bit of ability to dodge even instants when playing impatient/instant spamming builds.

Again, this is just a discussion, but what do you think?
This number could even be .5 of a second, for the sake of arguments. Thoughts?

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I’ve yet to purchase it because I’ve only recently reached 80 on my Necromancer. So the validity of my opinion could easily be disputed, still, if I’m understanding how it works, wouldn’t it work like additional toughness?
If it heals every time we take damage, and heals for more the more damage is dealt to us, wouldn’t that just mean that we could forget about toughness in our gear and let the signet do the work?

It has a 1 second internal cooldown, so you’re only getting healed for 325 damage when you get hit no more than 1 time per second which is nothing compared to the damage you’ll be taking everywhere in the game. Also, its 325 healing when you take damage on a 1 second icd, meaning it could be seconds before you get your heal, or over time because attacks don’t land exactly on the second, over time you lose ticks, then compare it to Healing Signet which passively heals 392 base every second on the second, while you’re attacking, being attacked, chasing or running away, you’re getting healed for MORE everysecond on the second.

Hell if downed state across the board was a “feinting” state and could do absolutely NOTHING until they died or were raised that’d be fine. What’s the point of knocking people out if they’re still attacking. x.X

Personally, I’d do something like this:
(Base Stats, no Healing Power)
Passive:
Steal life when you attack an enemy.
Damage: 50
Healing: 200
Internal Cooldown: 1/2 second. This way, it doesn’t leech too much from AoEs or VERY fast channels (Which would otherwise heal like 2k? This way will only heal about 400 hp/s). This would be on par with healing signet, with a little added damage at the cost of having to actively hit the target, meaning it’s realistic HPS would still be lower. Of course this would be affected by Blood Thirst, now too.

Active:
Cooldown 25 seconds. 1/2 cast time.
Heal yourself for 3400
Gain 10 stacks of Mark of Vampirism for 5 seconds. (Self buff)
Each hit while under effects of Mark of Vampirism deal 200 damage and heal for 400, and there is no global cooldown.

This would lead to a small heal with a potential of dealing 2000 damage and healing 4000 more, but obviously at the risk of losing a lot of stacks via evades/ccs/time running out on the buff. High risk, high reward heal. And this way it keeps it more in-line with the “Aggressive leeching tank” niche that leeching is supposed to be about, not support… (That’s what wells are for…)

So what we have is:
A good passive that has play to it, it requires being aggressive to get the benefit, but doesn’t completely outshine things like healing signet or Mesmer Signet, and doesn’t heal when the enemy is playing well (keeping you from hitting them) like it should be.

The active is worth actually using, versus say Warrior healing signet, because you could chain it with an Axe 2 adding a little bit of burst to your hits and giving yourself a spike heal at the risk of being aggressive even when needing a heal. That’s what it’s all about! Who’s with me on this?! :P

Exactly what Deejay said. Downed state is an enabler for:

- Being Carried
- Playing super glassy builds and not caring enough about your own life.
- Punishing good players from fighting multiple lesser skilled enemies due to an artificial wall that isn’t fun.
- Promotes team imbalances and other general post-death imbalances.
- Besides, regardless there’s nothing “interesting” or team-playish about picking people up off the floor. The fun is supposed to be in the combat, not rubbing a guy’s leg because they’re bad and Numbers > Skill and coordination.

I actually would like downed state to go away… It ruins the ability to show pure skill 2v1ing players (assuming its not just cheese, even with cheese though 2v1s are usually a feat of strength). If people are so concerned with the lack of healers, how about, and this is just a crazy idea, but make the support part of the trinity not useless!

If support mattered, we wouldn’t NEED the downed state and 2v1s could happen. If those things occurred, I’d might even have more fun in PvP because there’s nothing more frustrating than kittening up 2 people 2v1 but dying because your class has a lack of stability/stomping power and you lose and then they start coming at you with their “I’m godly, u suk” type insults. Let just PUNISH THE WEAK! >:D

Also, instead of downed state raises, just make raises resurrect someone from the actual dead but only at 25% hp. And….. Do something with spirit raise. One every 30 seconds is too stronk!

Ps. It would stop self-raising spirit rangers cause when they die, the spirit would too. :P

I’d really like to know the 6 who chose 4 and 5. :P

Minion masters already have enough issues with AoE anyways. Try playing one in top tier pvp and tell me how you do. Specifically in Khylo (top 100 at least), and also take note at how many MMs are in the top 100 in tpvp, and just how glorious it is to play the oh so powerful MM in a team fight, especially with an engi/warrior or necromancer on the opposing team. Just because you die to something in 1v1 versus a 1v1 centric build on your center aoe spam build doesn’t make it wrong. Your cheese stinks just as bad as ours.

I had a similar issue after using dagger 4 to remove immobilization, I couldn’t move. (Necro as well)

Edit: this was in sPvP

Elementalist?? I was with you until you said you were elementalist. Sure, ele has some issues, but just use that new heal against an MM, its a guaranteed full heal. Same with spirit rangers. :P Just sayin :P

Padrion.7382:

I enjoy the regeneration of Healing Signet pretty much but its clearly bad game design if no one ever thinks about using the active because its so ineffective in comparison. My biggest concern at the moment is to not accidentally press the healing button. I have thought about disabeling it when i play my warrior – thats ridiculous! Lower the passive healing a bit (not to much!) and make the active worth using in emergency cases.

Which is exactly what I suggested.

Having 300hps+ adrenal health would not make you useless. Come on now… Especially if the on-use became something worth using like I had also suggested. You act like warriors are on the verge of being totally useless. Hint: They’re not. And if you feel warriors are in a good spot, I suggest you try some other classes out for a bit and compare your findings. Most people have to actually press the heal button to stay alive, which I’m sure would be your biggest learning curve, at this point. Not to mention, people above me seem to think healing surge is just fine (not my words), so if healing signet got nerfed a bit, clearly they’d be just fine. <_<

If you were fine with it at 200/sec why are you so opposed to it becoming 300/sec (my suggestion) with a better active? You know actives ARE meant to be used right?

And just so you know, you’re incorrect. That isn’t why its so high. It’s because no one used it when it healed half as much over time, because both the passive and the “use” wasn’t enough healing. You’d be correct if the passive WAS the heal, but it isn’t. The heal is the on use, and instead of buffing the use to a good place like they should have done, the buffed the passive portion way too high so people would use it, and left the active being completely useless. If it healed for 200 Hps, but on use healed for 7k for instance, people would still use it. It’d slow down the rate that you lose health but still have an active worth using. Granted 7k would be too high for a 16’second cd, but you get the idea. They took an easy fix to make the heal attractive, now delusional people think its an interesting heal/design.

There are a lot of skills that suck across the game. OP skills are far more important to bring in line that underpowered because they had the biggest negative impact on actual play. Once things are toned down, other things can be brought up. Like look at corrosive poison cloud. It blows, but anything too strong (condi spam) is much more important to fix than an unused skill. And it was, condition spams took significant nerfs in the las patch.

I compared warrior heals with warrior heals. I’ve played mmos for a long time, I know how balance works. Stop defending this. I’m not asking for it to be destroyed. I’m asking for it to have a HELPFUL passive, but ultimately, still be a heal button. The truth is, while it may be a bit weaker versus burst, warriors have plenty of blocks/stability and condi clear to avoid burst, thus allowing the healing signets’s sustain be more effective than burst healing. And while yes, you can see warriors do fine with Healing Surge, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know healing signet is still superior.

And don’t think because I call healing signet out that it’s the ONLY thing that I see as a problem. That’s just what this topic is about. For instance, as an MM I wish my minions didn’t do as much dps, but that I did more instead, but unfortunately, Power necro seems to be balanced with minions in mind so they’re honestly just the best bet for spvp power unless you’re running some glass LB build. The problem is that necromancers are just too easy to cc/focus (specifically glass power ones) to be worth using versus say, I don’t know… A warrior with stances? Maybe mesmers now, thieves before… So while yes, it’s also pretty stupid how much dps Minions can do, phantasms can do, how ridiculously over powered Prismatic Understanding is, how cluttersome ai can be (especially spirits) that’s not what this is about, so don’t try to call me out of you have no idea what my opinions are on other things.

Yes, pin down is too strong. And yes, healing signers passive is too strong. And yes, the active portion of healing signet needs a huge buff. These are facts. Unrelated to anyone else, for the warrior as a class by itself, they are too good.

I’ve seen this in rush, definitely, but not much bulls charge. O.o

Oh and to those saying why not just use healing sure over it, well simply put with 0 healing power and best case scenario, if a warrior has full adren, it heals for 9,820 with a 30 sec cool down (or less with fewer adrenaline). In 30 seconds with no healing power a healing signet can heal for about 12,000 and can’t be interrupted and is constant so there’s no chances of waiting too long to heal, your already getting health, meaning each moment fighting is less risky. Its kind of a no brained why people use one over the other if they want to be efficient.

I’ not sure anymore than 10,000 healing over 25 seconds (an average cool down of a heal) passively ticking is actually okay. The point of the passive is supposed to give you some wiggle room/protection before you use your signet, not replace it. It doesn’t need mega nerfed but 20-25% nerf (say 25) would still be 7,500 over 25 seconds which is about on par with Ether fest passively. And ether fest is considered a very high heal already. Then make the signet worth using, so we don’t have never-use signets. It being a passive heal doesn’t bother me, but the fact that using it quickly hurts you is a pretty big problem.

Even traited, a 3500 heal use with a 16 second cool down is overshadowed by the passive 6,400 in 16 seconds. Which is why ever using it even in dire situations is even bad.

No. Two reasons:

A. It’s far too cool for a necromancer trait. If its interesting you can forget it. Necro life is a dull life.

B. And this is a real concern, they’d might even do this and to “balance it out”, they’d nerf all leech traits by 50% to compensate for the new interesting design.

I gave it a 2 because… at least it heals, right? x.X
But that was just the benefit of the doubt. For any specific situation, pvp, wvw, pve there’s always a better option already that requires less investment to make work. It even makes Blood fiend look ‘good’, which… I’m really not sure how I feel about that.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Quip-in-PvP/first#post3342301

He has it, look at the foot steps and the shot, and in his hand even.

I got 2 devs to tell me they’d pass it on to the Balancing team.

Is this referencing something or…?

Okay, so; just some heal math I sent to one of the devs, in case anyone wanted some easy-to-compare numbers.

“The problem is:
Passive wise, we’re looking at 325 healing per second under OPTIMAL conditions (that optimal condition being, getting hit, which… isn’t very optimal in the first place), whereas the warrior’s base is 392 every second on the second with no draw backs. Alternatively, the Mesmer one which is about 330 hps with 3 illusions, which in spvp is relatively easy to maintain on most popular Mesmer builds, and this would tick every 3 seconds without any counter restrictions (meaning you can actively gain hp over time if you avoid being hit/kite).

Then, for the use.
The cooldown is way too long (35 seconds untraited), but we’ll assume the signet is traited for the heal. It’s a 4000 heal for a 28 second cooldown on the highest HP pool class in the game with the fewest defensive measures. The “use” portion, while it has a few failsafes can still fail to mark a target under certain circumstances, aside from the long cast time for the very weak beginning heal. After that, due to its 1 second ICD, you can manage to steal over 5 seconds 1.2k more health. That’s a 5.2k heal on a 28 second cooldown, 35 second cooldown untraited, in which time, the signet passive obviously isn’t working. This is the same for any party member, this “support heal” at best can give 1.2 healing to others (or slightly more with healing power, which, not many necromancers run healing power because in most cases our scaling with healing power isn’t worth the investment). This leads me to 2 secondary gripes:

1. Life stealing is not a support role. Life stealing is a tanky/aggressive damage niche. Put yourself at risk/the thicket of battle to BENEFIT (not try to get hit and die because you’re not healing enough). It really should support life stealing traits (which the passive doesn’t even improve with bloodthirst), and be for life stealing necros, which are not support necros.

2. Say someone did want to support. This isn’t the heal to do it with.
With 1500 Healing power:
The “on hit” heals for 692, realistically in 5 seconds (Assuming the target doesn’t move at all…) you get 4 siphons off, for 2768 healing, from 1 main target and best case scenario.

Well of blood, traited can be a 32 second cooldown heal that instantly heals the necromancer for (Again with 1500) 6400. This also triggers an instant heal for 725, so right off (and for .25 second fewer cast time) the necromancer heals themselves for 7152, and 725 aoe in the well, and then that amount every second for 10 second and provides a light field.
Assuming best conditions, this is an AoE heal for 7957 healing with a long light field and a self heal for 14375."

Bhawb.7408:

They already know it and have said they are replacing it, keep up.

I know, I was just replying. :P

I don’t like either of the minors though. Even protection of the horde is like 60 toughness on average throughout a longish fight. :P