Guild Wars 2

For the kittening love of god. I’ve been trying to duo with my buddy and since yesterday we had something like 10 matches… ALL of them against a full group, or a 4 man queue.

Today its already 3 matches against a full groups… one of them a super yoloqueue with Hman, Hemo, Twerp, Skovs & Symbolic. We’re probably not even rated, we’re mostly like 90% by now.

I mean, srsly. What the kitten Anet? Next time one of you clowns log into Anvil Rock ima spam your kitten till you block or ban me.

Dirame.8521:

I think you’re looking at if from the point that the Warrior is the only one going for the Necro. The Warrior definitely won’t be. The Thief will be on him, the ele would be on him our very own Necro/Engie would be on his tail as well. Even if the Warrior was focused, the Warrior spec I’ve been playing and the Warriors I’ve been playing with are quite beefy and bringing them down takes more than just focus fire. In fact, you could actually send one of these guys to hold a point for a while and they would survive against 3 for more than just a few seconds.

Toss in me and my Burst healing Engy and these guys could survive for quite some time in a team fight.

Yes ofcourse everybody would be on the necro but keep in mind the other team will be bursting someone down as well. And the funny part the best class to keep pressure is the second most OP right now, which is the S/D thief… The whole issue though, is that necros can do stuff from range while the warrior cannot. If the necro has a decent team peeling for him and all, its very safe to say that his team will have the upperhand easily, especially if he kites toward the stairs to his home point (talking about legacy here) and his team nukes whoever tries to go up while the guardian keeps the point contested.

Warrior animation are quite easy to telegraph and you can actually have your dodges set for that. Meanwhile when you look at a necro you don’t even see what he is trowing at you, but within 2 seconds you got all the conditions in the kittening game..

Dirame.8521:

swinsk.6410:

Why don’t we all just quit our characters and start playing necros and engis?

Seems like what ANet wants us to do…

I think what Anet wants you to do is find a counter to the meta but apparently we are too busy whining to do that. You want someone in some high ranking team to do the same thing Super Squad did when they ran a Warrior with Battle Standard, or when Teldo went back to playing Flamethrower/Bomb kit. You’re not willing to counter the meta, only willing to complain about it.

Its not that simple Dirame. There is no counter to the amount of AoE condis being spread all over… by the time the warrior tries to get in range of the necro that can simple be nuking everything around him from range, he’ll be down focused by the rest of the team. There are not enough cleanses to sustain that fight till you can make a play and then pressure the necro. Just like Ultima explained there are no real counters to S/D thiefs because they can have a huge amount of survivability throughout evades, best mobility in the game, and on top of that high damage… If it is played properly he’ll pinpoint one important player in the team fight and there is nothing you can do because you if try to focus him he’ll just evade… if you try to CC him to right afterwards burst him you can’t either because he’ll teleport away.

On top of all that there is another thread which shows how kittened non active skills are completely kittening up the game, prime example is the spirit ranger just dancing around not needing to do anything since 70% of his play is passive.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Im not saying necro or s/d isnt op. It is. But so was ele and mesmer for the last 10 months. But now alot of the top teams are crying because suddenly the meta isnt in their favour as much.

You do realize that mesmer’s blurred frenzy had a cooldown added to it, and the pull got an internal cooldown to not instapull people giving reaction time to outplay that? Do you see Xeph or other mesmers kittening about it?

Also if people want to talk about meta. Please for the love of god listen to Battosai:

the problem with the s/d thief though is that it snowballs ridiculously hard – if one of your dps is getting trained by an s/d thief it’s really hard to peel for the guy being trained, he needs to go defensive immediately as he dies otherwise in a few seconds.
thus taking off a lot of pressure from his own team in the teamfight while having a necro spamming marks for the constant aoe pressure – your dps will go down eventually and if you try to go for the thief he’ll just reset while you get eaten alive by conditions.
so if the player that was being trained by the thief now is in down state the thief can just swap target and still have all of his burst/pressure up, due to its design making fights really snowbally as he can just start to train another target that now needs to be on the defensive instantly again.
meanwhile you have a bomb engi just funneling into far that will decap the point eventually and with supply crate up being a really tough match up to take 1v1.
overall the comp is really kitten simple and easy to play – the current meta and the current game is too dumped down skillwise imo.

i have one suggestion that would actually adress 3 of the 4 classes that currently feel kinda mandatory due to their low skill floor ( not saying anything about the skillcap ) is changing the function of the burning traits being dhuumfire, incendiary ammo and the sun spirit burning procc.
add a tooltip icon into the players buff bar ( engis/necroes/players affected by sun spirit) that informs the opposing player that the next attack will procc burning – if he dodges this attack the procc will vanish and trigger the traits icd thus introducing actual counterplay to the mindless condition spam right now.

also s/d thiefs #3 ability is completely flawed in design and broken – it just does way too much while pretty much every other skill in this weaponset pales in comparison.

Off the topic: Does no one find it funny that everyone has already settled that every single competitive team must have a guardian? …

Why you not allow Brasil in the list. Is it because we found out Obama’s been listening our phone calls and reading our e-mails and now we’ll proceed to be mad at US, so Anet try to retaliate Brasil cuz of that?

Racists.

Loljk<3

Well, at least the people who considered the map fun can still keep playing it in custom arenas and hotjoins. So you can still keep having fun knocking people down and so on.

google.3709:

@Savdoom.2067

yes, it’s true that some classes are better than others. BUT…. If spec’ed for the map… Mesmer are much more deadly than engineers, engi have single target short range CC while Mesmer have skills such as Curtain Pull and GS 5 which are two of the strongest CC skills ingame.. as well as insane amounts of invulnerability and reflects, a non lazy Mesmer who’s willing to adapt their build would never lose to any engineer.

and if you’re taking about meele classes… I think ur forgetting that warriors have a little too much stability, smart s/d thief can actually port back up… perms evade ranger with rampage ? no matter how you put it, it all comes down to making an effective build for the map, which people aren’t doing….

This is the thing. Now why would i go through changing my class’s build to try achieve 60-70% of CC/stability that some other classes has it much easier. I’ll just log on a necro, engineer or guardian and have access to spammable cc. And in a map like this it is actually viable to run 5 bunkers…

Now if you try run 5 bunkers in an actual balanced map, such as Legacy, you will be countered easily since if you get forced into team fights you won’t be able to kill anything since you don’t have a “1 shot” mechanic.

Dirame.8521:

Skyhammer is a fun map for those with a lot of stability, blocks and knockbacks. For those who don’t have “spammable” access to those things, it’s a different story entirely. The community wants a meta change but not a meta change that forces only one type of build.

Agreed. Hai Ziggs <3

sorrow.2364:

saVdoom.2067:

If you never cared about positioning in a tournament match then it just means you haven’t played in the “meta” or against any other top team that will completely destroy you if you’re overextended or out of position.
I can’t count how many times i watched TP’s stream or the cast’d tournament streams where they will destroy somebody because he’s out of position or overextended in a tournament match, or because he pushed far node at the wrong time making the opposite team collapse at him while their bunker was holding mid and then collapsing at mid having 1 guy advantage.

This is a reductive way of seeing positioning.

I don’t know if you played GW1, but in that game positioning were crucial.
If your team did not paid enough attention to properly split up, the enemy pressure would have been 10x more effective.

In GW2, positioning has really no importance. You can ball up or split up and you can adjust your position in a blink.
In Skyhammer, on the other hand, if you have a wrong position in the wrong time, you’re dead, which is something that arguably none has experienced before in any PvP map.

i’ll just quote someone else replying to you in your attempt to defend this map mechanic regarding positioning since i’m far to lazy to debate this myself:

Shar.3402:

Have you actually played this map against decent people? Considering your non-existant leaderboard ranking, I guess not.

Then you could tell me how a D/D Elementalist / Dps Guardian / Warrior are supposed to “position” themselves when they have to go into melee range of someone using the cannon…yeah, that puts them right in the middle of the cannon platform.
Or maybe you could tell me how a melee class is supposed to hold a side point with his back to the wall, all the time…hoping a stealthed thief doesn’t pull you down

sorrow.2364:

saVdoom.2067:

I keep hearing this left and right regarding Skyhammer but quite honestly what kind of adapting? Bringing a 5 bunker team with a lot of CC? Knockbacks and pull engineers? Rampage as One rangers with GS/LB? Fear specced necromansers (lol)? Sure sounds fun for the melees in this game that already have a hard time in any map out there. What kind of adapting really? Change your build to not have any damage at all and focus in survival and cc? Ok so a bunker? Lets not mention the insane buff to necromansers that we already have to deal in normal maps now we have to deal in this one which makes them able to kill people fearing them out?

The adapting is paying attention to positioning, which is something anyone has never done before in this game, mainly because having a bad positioning had from little to no effect at all.

If you never cared about positioning in a tournament match then it just means you haven’t played in the “meta” or against any other top team that will completely destroy you if you’re overextended or out of position.
I can’t count how many times i watched TP’s stream or the cast’d tournament streams where they will destroy somebody because he’s out of position or overextended in a tournament match, or because he pushed far node at the wrong time making the opposite team collapse at him while their bunker was holding mid and then collapsing at mid having 1 guy advantage.

google.3709:

I hear you mention necros can fear, engi can CC, but.. what about your class ? probably does too, so it’s not really uneven battles. it’s all about out playing the other person

Oh yes sure, its all about out playing the other person. Sure a 5 full bursty group can win tournament against a balanced team right… right? There is indeed a slim chance but it is not happening against decent players, and you know why? Because a guardian is better in bunkering a node against a thief…. Because engineers are better in ccing versus a mesmer…. and so on. Because certain classes has easier access to stability in comparison with others.

google.3709:

pulls have painfully obvious animations and they can’t knock you down if you’re facing a wall. 3 simple concepts that the loud members of the community can’t seem to understand.

Sure a melee class will wave his melee weapon at you while you’re melting his kitten from range and close to the holes and just waiting for you to leave the wall for a little bit, to cc and then knock you out… sounds like fun.

google.3709:

don’t want to adapt.

I keep hearing this left and right regarding Skyhammer but quite honestly what kind of adapting? Bringing a 5 bunker team with a lot of CC? Knockbacks and pull engineers? Rampage as One rangers with GS/LB? Fear specced necromansers (lol)? Sure sounds fun for the melees in this game that already have a hard time in any map out there. What kind of adapting really? Change your build to not have any damage at all and focus in survival and cc? Ok so a bunker? Lets not mention the insane buff to necromansers that we already have to deal in normal maps now we have to deal in this one which makes them able to kill people fearing them out?

I get that it brought build variety but this is NOT balancing. Balancing means that every build can be useful depending on the strategy your team has at any given map. With this “map mechanic” you are simple forcing people to necessarily run a certain build else they’re out.. just like in the other tournament maps people are “forced” to use the specs we know and call our meta atm. Also keep in mind not all classes has easy access to a heavy cc focused build, you would create a whole different kind of imbalances all over again.

Having said that i can agree the map was fun to play for abit.. but in no way a serious tournament match. Having also said that why the kitten is anet not focusing in the important stuff… such as a real solo queue?

Allie, then please read this thread as it has very good/constructive feedback regarding sPvP meta.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Reasons-why-we-have-a-cond-meta

Very good post OP. It pretty much sums up the frustration with this cond meta we are seeing right now.

Imo either nerf or remove those “activate burning on crit proc” traits and also see a way to reduce the damage from burning.

A) Necros?

15c

+1
and 15 chars

I’ve only played for a couple hours now but yeah… every single map there is 2-3 necros and it just kittened to fight against them. It could be that with time there will be way to deal with it, but its once you get feared you just get 7 condis on you and you simple go from 100-0 stupidly fast… even if you stun-break the conditions just destroy you.

“We don’t want to play whack-a-mole our balance”.

Within one business trip i did which i stayed out of GW2 for like 3 days and i attempt to play today into a totally different game. I understand balancing and testing has to be done, but srsly?

Call me when you finished your beta testing ok?

Zumos.2056:

It is unfair to say that large scale combat is skilless, certainly if you have only limited (or none even) experience yourself. Obviously it is a completely different kind of skill than small scale combat, which btw I’m sure that both Red Guard and Za Drots can do as well. The problem is that small scale combat is related to sPvP too much, and sPvP is really not popular at all at not only RG, but many guilds I know from WAR as well.

Its pretty much exact same as in WAR. Some groups/guilds/players would rather focus in small 6 man groups doing scenarios or roaming against the zerg. And some other guilds/players focused on having full warbands of 24 people bombing the kitten out of each other.

I guess the general consensus is that i’d always take into my “WvW” any “sPvP” player because he’s used to much faster reaction and knows his class and all others very well (since it is required in high end spvp), and then its an issue of discipline and support build. But I wouldn’t take any “WvW” scale player into my sPvP team. Not saying both have their skillfull plays and so on, but large scale is much more about coordination, discipline, support focused builds and… pc hardware to handle all the aoe spam ;p rather then individual player skill.

Bunzy.8674:

This is just whoever positions the best, not very entertaining from a skill based point of view.

a 10v10 would be much better.

Its much less about skill and much more about coordinating. Although i do agree a 10v10 would be much better to watch as well, much less then a culling clusterkitten.

Don’t understand why ZD try to turtle it up making all of them easy targets, besides it seems no one keep the pressure on RG, instead of everyone run to early for a regroup right after the first encounter, and get kittened up while doing it.

The signet effects should be effects to the PLAYER. And perhaps if you trait 20 points somewhere else it would also mirror the effects to the pet. Anything unlike that is stupid since our pet is completely unreliable… and spending 30 points just to be in pair with the signet of other classes that require no traits is just stupid.

Gravity.2691:

to contact our chef coallition

Thread winner imo!

Rskippy.3620:

[…] and placing it between the stairs / flat ground just in front of us.. it is well over 1200 range (even though the skill range is only 900)

Far-Reaching Manipulations
The range of your manipulation skills is increased.

Tier Adept in Dueling trait line. It does indeed make the range of blink up to 1200 range. So maybe that is why?

Rednik.3809:

First, BT didn’t seek russians for coverage, BT was one on unofficial russian servers since BWE. And in that match with SFR, russian zerg was one of primary (and largest) BT forces in morning, day, and evening. Later transfers from SF only strengthened the distribution. Therefore, the SFR began to lead only when the main force of our server went to sleep, and only a few BT EU guilds were fighting. The guys from the CIR and ThUN themselves just physically could not hold all the maps against the huge zergs.

No one claimed that that Blacktide’s originals called russians for coverage, after all the original big/main guild in Blacktide is Xaoc. We mostly just brought the facts once certain fresh bandwaggoned central time Prime-time guilds in Blacktide started acting almighty saying they were hot kitten. That is all.

And if you think you were the most strong server 2-3 weeks ago when you were active then fine, but keep in mind that other servers could just as well had not finished all its transfers, or been taking breaks themselves. This is why the only trully #1 in EU ladder at the moment is still VZ, for staying so long in T1… we’ll see what SFR can do now though, they seem quite eager to stay in T1 and beat T1 as long and as much as possible.

Hot Boy.7138:

Being a mesmer doesn’t put me in a better position than anyone else for a 1v1 against a skilled and well geaerd player. The only thing that gives me an advantage is if my build is able to counter his. For example, If I’m running a healing build with heavy condition removals then that seemingly OPed-master-of-conditions necro will lose to me. Then again he could still overcome it if he plays very well and doesn’t make any wasteful moves.

Are you serious?

Obviously if the guy run a build to strictly counter YOUR build he will have the edge. But what are the odds of this happening since most people use team-focused builds in WvW!?

Besides for most classes to have a build to be able to beat a mesmer (aside for thief, or staff Ele) they would need to run a build which is only for 1on1 fights… while being in WvW. Does not make sense. Nor does you.

Being a mesmer obviously put you in a much better position then most classes because of the versatility of the class itself. A whole bunch of dazes, stuns, blinds, blurred frenzy providing invulnerability, a whole lot bunch of boons and conditions due staff……….. and the list goes on.

Once again, i do hope you’re not serious.

[quote=1032861;Hot Boy.7138:]

Wizardauz.3761:

“We want the Warrior to be capable of good melee damage in a sturdy body. They can still do some decent damage at range, but they aren’t as good at it as the Ranger (with their pet).”

Quoted for future reference. One of the most senseless comments i have ever seen by a developer.

SteepledHat.1345:

saVdoom.2067:

Hot Boy.7138:

saVdoom.2067:

What class you’re playing?

Inb4 it’s because you’re a mesmer.

Yes, i thought so. Doesn’t make it any less true because of the fact that you managed to lose to other classes.

Lol, surprised that a player of the duelist class likes to duel? Mesmer is far from OP. Don’t use common player ineptitude to devalue the achievements of the mesmer player base. Truth is, mes is hard to play and attracts a lot of talented players. Same with elem and necro. Then there are your foo classes…

I play a mesmer myself in tpvp so i know what are the class capabilities. And its quite obvious why a mesmer would like to 1on1.. especially in WvW.

Mesmer is OP as kitten. Talented players won’t play only one class, especially if its an OP as hell one. I play fairly well engineer, thief, mesmer, ranger in tPvP.

No, mesmer is not hard to play… Phantasm build and Shatter are quite easy and Blurred Frenzy rotation is just as easy as other classes have and in fact one with the smaller cool-down as well.

Hot Boy.7138:

saVdoom.2067:

What class you’re playing?

Inb4 it’s because you’re a mesmer.

Yes, i thought so. Doesn’t make it any less true because of the fact that you managed to lose to other classes.

Rednik.3809:

saVdoom.2067:

Checked: http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/9/5

SFR seem to win during EU-prime time 5 out of 7 days. As you can see at around 2-4 am is when BT starts getting a huge amount of points.

Lolwut? Do you even watch at graphic at your link?
Day 1 – BT lead almost all day, SFR lead at night.
Day 2 – BT lead almost all day, near 23h-0h SF takes lead again.
Day 3 – SF lead night and morning, BT lead all time after.
Day 4 – same.
Day 5 – same.
Day 6 – after BT reach 90k leadership and begin play for fun, SFR finally manage to get upper hand at primetime score.
Day 7 – BT doesn’t cap anything seriously, SFR on lead.
So i see SFR dominate only at nightcap field (or then BT was not play seriously at all). If this is their “primetime”, then sure, they beat us in primetime, lol.
P.S. Everyone who wans see real situation from BT POV – set your PC clock at UTC+4 (russian time), then refresh MOS graph. It’s really fun to see all those great SFR forum warriors starting to lead only after majority of BT players leave to sleep.

Lol your analysis is quite impressively weird… lets take a look:

Reset time: SFR on the lead till 11pm.
Saturday: Blacktide dominates since 1am till around 4pm while Riverside dominates primetime from 5:30pm till 2am where Blacktide usually starts its russian morning capping.
Sunday: Blacktide dominates from 2am till 4pm, and from 6pm (usually when prime-time starts) till 1:30am SFR dominates.
Monday: Blacktide usually morning capping from 2am till 6pm (again.. when people are off work/school and are able to play) and then SFR leads till 10pm.
Tuesday: Again somewhere in morning of tuesday Blacktide starts morning capping and at 4am they are dominating in points and again it goes till 6pm prime-time where the points are even, which means SFR and Riverside had to fought an uphill fight and SFR dominates till 1:40am.
Wednesday: Again at 4am Blacktide has majority of points and dominates till 5pm when Riverside dominates prime-time till 1am.
Thursday: Blacktide dominates empty maps again in the Central European morning and then SFR takes lead the rest of the day from 1pm till pretty much friday, obviously Blacktide had already a huge lead and didn’t really fought to hard.

Now all i’m talking is CET time, and the main point is… if it wasn’t for the Russian zerg in BT you would had never won this match up quite honestly. I know that prime-time for Russians are different then to the rest of the Europe, and that is ok… but trying to argue that BT lead EU prime-time while in-fact they didn’t lead once its quite funny since the main factor that made BT won that match up was the huge morning caps that BT did against central time based servers.

The whole argument was never why we lost and who was better then who. The argument was that we had several Blacktide Central Time guilds telling us they dominated SFR in prime-time, while in prime-time they got destroyed… and then what they told us was:

-Hey, this is a 24h match up!
-Get russians to cover your off-time!

Well, seems SFR did that and now in even grounds apparently Blacktide took a “break”. Quite like when Desolation’s RUIN nation got “bored” once Blacktide reached T1. Funny huh? Seems the only guilds still fighting are RG and Nug so props to them.

Hot Boy.7138:

You bring up a good point Fivekiller. I actually wanted to mention more about that. The people that run from me literally have no idea if I’m good, or bad, or just bought my account, or a child playing, or a bot, or if I’m a total noob and have all crap utilities with each one autocast on my bar. They just see a Sylvari running toward them and run away.

@Rainbowcrow, You can’t help your realm in wvw if you’re running away from the objective or hiding in your base because I’m in your path. Again I ask, how do you catch up to the team or get to the objective if a single enemy player is in your way? They’re not running pass me to the objective, they’re making an about face and running back to where they came from.

(edited to respond to rainbowcrow)

I know there are certain buffs that give you away. I can tell an ele right away by their attunement icon under their health bar, but I don’t have any such buffs that can tell anyone what class I am. I really don’t even think it matters what class the person is. They just run.

What class you’re playing?

Ianervan.3415:

Webley.1295:

We always used to beat you prime time.

SFR always liked myths and this is one of them posted regularly. Blacktide beat SFR in prime time. Check the history on that French website if you need.

Checked: http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/9/5

SFR seem to win during EU-prime time 5 out of 7 days. As you can see at around 2-4 am is when BT starts getting a huge amount of points.

Genev.2450:

SFR has never been short of forum warriors.
Though the usual suspects are absent so far :p

That is because i transfered to Piken Square already predicting a boring match up since apparently the new “WvWvW” meta is to leave the WvW fields so you can make the opposition think that they have it easy and become slacky or just stop doing WvW since its boring.

Its quite funny actually to see that whenever a new challenger shows up and things can finally become exiting again everyone suddenly does not show in WvW. To bad that knowing SFR they will take and dominate for quite a long time not really caring of your new “meta” strategy. Because the main guilds fighting now are the ones who put SFR in Tier 2 when we were medium populated, and are the same guilds who called up on server community meeting when we got beaten down, and are the same ones who kept fighting day after day despite winning or losing. Ofcourse we got a influx of new guilds and helped up, but the main “new” ones are already part of the community and already integrated in working together with other older guilds, bringing people from different guilds into their groups and ts3. We’ll see how it turns out.

Good luck for you all there, just to bad that the new “meta” set up by VZ and BT is just idiotic and i rather play lower tiers with actual fighting

Exactly. To be honest i think i play a mesmer pretty good but my team quit even before paids came out, and till today i never found a regular team to play with in paids so yeah, i’ll have 0 QP. But if you guys want to give me a try i assure you won’t be dissapointed.

Good luck finding someone!

Genev.2450:

But there’s absolutely no reason to do that, and tactics, planning and positioning is just as much skill as pressing buttons is, jsut a different type of skill.
I can press buttons quite well, or so i believe, but i couldn’t lead my way out of a paper bag.

Agreed. But i think the skill that Same meant is the one that you can see in tPvP fights such as:

“Ok that warrior just popped his signets and elite so he’s going to do massive damage, i’ll be ready to pop my invulnerability as soon as he cc me or just avoid/cc him till his cooldowns are off, meanwhile i just saw that the enemy Elementalist just switched off Water attunement and already used his mist form, which means he won’t have any cooldown or other healing ability to survive if we focus him again within the next 40seconds or so, despide him being a staff Elementalist normally known as a super bunky class.”

etc.

Ins.7139:

Same.4687:

In its current state skill doesn’t matter at all in WvW. Sure if you fight a 1v1 or a 5v5 the more skilled opponent will win. But in zergs it is simply impossible to beat numbers* You will never see a group of 10 beat a group of 30/40.* This has nothing to do with skill, it has to do with AoE cap, downed state and other mechanics that limit the impact of skill on battles.

What you should be looking for in WvW is sheer numbers. If you have the biggest zerg you will win.

Zerg fights is the main word here, i think by that he does not mean a normal fight where you’ll have planned your engagement and positioning, pre-buffing (like you usually do, and like it is shown in the couple videos posted).

He means if you head-to-head meet the opposite zerg being 3x your numbers you will not survive if you try the engagement, because skill is not a decisive factor in WvWvW in such fights. Positioning, planning and composition are though. If you consider those to be “skill” then by all means.. keep arguing till the end of times.

I really cannot understand you guys. His main and first post was:

Same.4687:

WvW has never been about skill. This has nothing to do with its playerbase but everything to do with the game. WvW in its current state doesn’t allow skill to be a definitive factor in a fight.

Then people started pulling examples how they’re doing 10 vs 30 and winning from day one, so for their understanding.. “skill” is playing a big part on it.

Then he just said it its not possible because if you put it an open field fight there is just no way how you’ll overcome the damage/cc of 30 people beating on you when you’re only 10. Because the game just simple does not allow it.

I think the big miss-understanding is that:
Terrain != skill.
Culling != skill.
Having low affect from lag or hardware issues when your enemies are having 0-5 fps != skill.

Empyre.2531:

saVdoom.2067:

Seth Lex.5493:

Same.4687:

I call bullkitten on all accounts until someone comes up with any form of proof.
/snip

There: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IFfsYGEpD0E#t=525s
Now, since there is actually a whole bunch of people telling you that the Earth does in fact move around the Sun, can we move on?

Wow. Luring pugs into choke points is very hard indeed. Its nearly as hard as funneling doors…. something yall seem very proud to do ?

Re-read:

If a group of 30 spreads out vs a group of 10 who’s spread out.

Mate, it’s one of SFR strongest guilds, OSC plus their followers (Paladini guild plus the usual pu that run after each commander tag they see)

I saw exactly what Same saw. I counted ~15 OSC members, and the “huge red blob” Sacrx loves to shout about, has probably 40% of it as pets, since just think that a Necromancer will have around 4 pets only himself… all of them displaying red names, and probably a lot of pugs.

On the end of the video when you jump off the platform that leads to the jumping puzzle and attack on some stragglers i couldn’t see one OSC member downed to be honest, correct me if i’m wrong. Perhaps they took off and left the pugs there?

Seth Lex.5493:

Same.4687:

I call bullkitten on all accounts until someone comes up with any form of proof.
/snip

There: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IFfsYGEpD0E#t=525s
Now, since there is actually a whole bunch of people telling you that the Earth does in fact move around the Sun, can we move on?

Wow. Luring pugs into choke points is very hard indeed. Its nearly as hard as funneling doors…. something yall seem very proud to do ?

Re-read:

If a group of 30 spreads out vs a group of 10 who’s spread out.

MarzAttakz.9608:

I loved how you collectively chortled and QQ’d about Ele’s without having one represented on your panel. Sure Team Paradigm used them to great effect in beta but if you want the next interview to be taken more seriously I’d suggest having a representative for each class.

Maybe you can do a follow up after February if a big rock doesn’t hit the earth first.

Couldn’t agree more with you. Would be nice to have a balance stream with each class being represented. Funny enough, on this stream 3 out of the 7 have thiefs as main?

Only issue would be finding someone from the “pro” teams that play a ranger… i believe there is perhaps only 1 with reasonable amount of QPs.

Keep in mind that BT is basically the union of Gunnar’s Hold, Far Shiverpeaks and Blacktide, plus Desolation too? Since Ruin transfered there, i’m just not sure what impact they had. Plus probably a whole bunch of bandwaggoners. RG also moved from Piken Square btw.

So yeah, if you’re complaining about 2v1 you really have to go get a clue.

Dawn.3716:

Choko.6821:

Dawn.3716:

Choko.6821:

Dawn.3716:

KiNgPiN.2075:

tita.6358:

Melkiah.2496:

I’d like to thank Arborstone and Vizunah for letting me hit my 10k kills achievement. I love you guys, keep dying

reached 40K yesterday. ty very much Xaoc and Ruin^^

Ruin is no more on BT maybe some individual players but the rest left. Take it as a xmas present from BT so FR can stop crying about americans on EU servers btw gz to 40k kills

Huh.. Where, SFR? That would be too ironic

Do you get problem with SFR?

I don’t think so, didn’t last time. But i don’t miss the crying

So you finally stop crying huh?

I was merely referring to the ridiculous amount of excuses why they didn’t win in our previous matchup.

True. Truthfully speaking SFR lost mainly because of Xaoc as you can see below:
http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/9/5

Great fights in SFR borderlands! Was there the whole day basically.

Its just to bad that the Desolation super defense team left Dawn’s when OSC got into the borderlands to push it hard, since we lacked the people.. we were constantly being attacked at Garrison and Woodhaven by Elona, for nearly 4 hours straigth basically defending it. Props to everyone who fought, great fights and pretty long ones.

Btw, i hope the JuG 2 guys don’t get mad at me after i chased them off Spiritholme with 2 BORN guys, and then a 3rd JuG came in to help but we still killed yall, and then laughed at you! I apologise if you guys didn’t like it, but i assure you i do it for the good sport and trolling spirit to keep up the good fights up! And also to take revenge from having 4 warriors jumping on me with haste and keeping me rooted for several seconds while sodomizing my underpowered ranger. One day i’ll make a warrior just like Jon (from the Anet balancing team) wants me too, since they won’t take 40 milliseconds of their time to fix ranger and will probably keep nerfing us blaming graphical glitches when they promise us a patch with “good stuff” for us.

/signed Riviére – the cute angry blondie ranger !

Sirius.9721:

Wothan.4673:

And for the crap, yep, 5/6 ppl vs RG is not the most effective for a balanced fight, I assume entirely our bad performance in this condition.

balanced fights?

Protip to RG. Using voicecom shall increase your performace greatly ! Don’t even attempt to do tPvP without voicecom brosephs!

WTB night-shift in SFR… I’m actually still surprized we’re leading despide not being able to field anyone during night-time.
http://tinypic.com/r/nf1qxk/6

Lets see what tomorrow brings, good fights all around !

Ianervan.3415:

What I said is what I typed, and what you’re talking about here I’ve no idea. You mentioned so many different things that I honestly don’t get the point.

You completely misunderstood my post sadly. I was actually agreeing with you and adding that atleast, for me, those sort of combats in open field here at gw2 are resumed to the points i mentioned earlier, and quite honestly its not hard to pull those, it takes very small coordination/skill actually. And those kind of strategies, which are the way to go in here since they are the most effective, degenerate the game leading to where zergs prevail, like you said yourself:

“So I’m not here trying to say people don’t know how to play.. but that the level of attempted and used synergy between players is really low.”

It is really low because it is not necessary.. unfortunately.

Ianervan.3415:

Snort.3698:

What exactly mean by zerg?

The term is bandied about but many conflate the concepts of mass pvp with “zerg”

I guess it depends on the context but what I mostly mean by “zerg” is big numbers without combat tactics. Just to be clear here, every group is going to use some strategy; whether it’s in picking the target objective, when and how to use siege etc. And yes, some guilds are better at this than other guilds, so I don’t mean to offend anyone by saying everyone plays mindlessly.

But what I mean by “combat tactics” is how a group operates once battle starts. Most clashes in WvW (we could say almost all) come down to “do as much damage individually as you can and stay alive”. Rarely do I see skill-chaining and “abuse” of overpowered guardian reflect walls, or strong mesmer Feedback, water fields and other fields, coordinated blasts, spikes 3-2-1 (those who played GW1 know what I mean here).

I mean, even before Phantasmal Berserker nerf I expected Mesmers to group up and spike defenders 3-2-1.. it would be piece of cake to kill them one by one. Or even target siege as a group. I have never seen anyone do this. Or even want to join up doing it.

So I’m not here trying to say people don’t know how to play.. but that the level of attempted and used synergy between players is really low. And I’m not really sure why that’s the case because it happened in all forms of GW1 PvP. Even those casual ones. Is it because WvW is much bigger so at the end of a day all this doesn’t really mean that much? Because in most cases one group is decisively bigger and all this would not really make much of a difference?

So you’re saying its: Prebuff like a boss before the fight then rush in or portal in, then spam as much AoE (damaging/heals) as you possible can and keep spamming/pushing till your enemy is down, and move together to take advantage of culling/AoE capping only 5 players maximum?

Sounds about right to me… so much for “WvW skill”…

Ianervan.3415:

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

As it stands last week BT won with smaller number to my opinion wich gives more satisfaction then zerg-victory.

BT won every single time exactly because of zerg victory. Get off your high horse. BT isn’t #1 server because it’s the most skilled 1 on 1 but because it outzerged and outtimezoned other servers. And that’s that. You could even remove RG from BT and there would be no noticable difference for a simple reason that RG usually plays in prime time and that doesn’t get as many points as you can get when everyone is asleep at 3-4am. It’s just how game is designed.

And you would know where BT gets most of the points if you played a bit longer on the server, instead of being freshly transferred.

Some hard truths in here and you’re absolutely correct. That is why we as in SFR rather stay in t2 for now, Elona and Desolation propose good fights and if you check the match up thread there was nothing but good stuff and fights – save a few hacking that Anet must do something about it.

If we move to T1 soon its going to be completely disheartening to see all our efforts gone during the off-time to the 24h coverage servers, and we’ll probably start losing interest in WvW again, even if we have good/fun fights during prime-time.

lin.2814:

saVdoom.2067:

Genev.2450:

And honestly, the Russian zerg isn’t as big as you might think, it’s 1 group switching between battlegrounds and taking things fairly efficient, leaving some people behind everywhere (not all necessarily on their voice com, i’ve been part of the zerg when i was sick and couldn’t sleep, for example) to call for help if needed and to keep supply going

Erm. No its not 1 group… and i know that because i fought them multiple times since i usually play american time (EU’s night – RUS morning). Perhaps they take lightly when they’re leading by a large amount of points naturally.

I would quote something from our old match up we had weeks ago, when SFR was defending Bay with ~10 people against 20-30 of it and we wiped them because they kept dying close to our walls vs 3-4 of us attacking from the side while the other 5-6 were at siege weapons, and Xaoc’s representatives were complaining that we were invisible and so on. All those posts were deleted though since they led to that huge flame war we had in our old match up. And my other account is still suspended because of it lol.

20-30 is a huge RUS zerg ? xD
Most of them every morning play new alt if they dont play seriously.

Genev right.

SF just need 30+ players, good commander, and voice server.

30 vs 10 yes, its a huge zerg. Just like someone get “zerged” going against 3 people being alone.

We have decent commanders and our voice server has nearly 300 people during prime-time. But like i said.. its hard to pull people off their regular life to login at off-times just to PvD for points’s sake.

Genev.2450:

And honestly, the Russian zerg isn’t as big as you might think, it’s 1 group switching between battlegrounds and taking things fairly efficient, leaving some people behind everywhere (not all necessarily on their voice com, i’ve been part of the zerg when i was sick and couldn’t sleep, for example) to call for help if needed and to keep supply going

Erm. No its not 1 group… and i know that because i fought them multiple times since i usually play american time (EU’s night – RUS morning). Perhaps they take lightly when they’re leading by a large amount of points naturally.

I would quote something from our old match up we had weeks ago, when SFR was defending Bay with ~10 people against 20-30 of it and we wiped them because they kept dying close to our walls vs 3-4 of us attacking from the side while the other 5-6 were at siege weapons, and Xaoc’s representatives were complaining that we were invisible and so on. All those posts were deleted though since they led to that huge flame war we had in our old match up. And my other account is still suspended because of it lol.

Ok, seems its being very hard to understand for some people.

Simple question: Is there any other guild Xaoc’s size (or alliances) that does WvW in SFR actively at the same time-zone? I’m talking about people who play around the same time-zone as you guys, either other Russians or whatever, that are from equal or close enough size of your guild/alliance that play in SFR?
Simple answer: No. We perhaps could grab a bunch of randoms together that play at those times but they won’t be even 10% as effective as a fully voice-com zerg guild.

So…. that is why people seek “outside” help. Not that i agree with it, but its the way Anet wants us to play their game – which is boring as hell.

Genev.2450:

6AM own time isn’t going to be primetime for anyone, this is an effort that they put in to play Before their primetime (which is late afternoon/early evening for us, if i’m not mistaken)

Because they can afford/can login at 6AM and login into the game and play a bit. Our server – or the majority of the WvW players – cannot. And no. We are not willing to sacrifice anything of our resting time just to bash into empty doors to win GW2 ladder. So people is seeking people that usually play around that time to do that.

So the way i see it, BT can lead in points at 6am RUS time, which is what? night-time in EU? Then they can lead in RUS prime-time which is EU’s evening/working time. And then they fight equally at EU prime-time, which is RUS sleeping time. So yes, you’ve coverage most of the day, which is why you’re #1. Gratz. But we don’t have this amount of russians to pull something like this, so therefore its not possible to organize our “own” in order to do that.