Guild Wars 2

-blood fiend didn’t have it’s health siphon on attack properly increased to 200% of the old value as according to the november patch.

-bone minions still have a 3 second delay when activating any combo field.

-Warriors can vengeance res off of minions. (I consider this a bug with minions since it makes it impossible for a minion master to kill any warrior with the res on kill trait).

I think they’re gonna spank our staffs. Marks in PvP are pretty much the only thing keeping my MM’s head above the water, and I see that getting a nerf since it’s so strong when I haven’t even spec’d into it.

healing power is in the vitality tree because of the old health stealing necromancer in guild wars one. However the health stealing necromancer doesn’t seem to be fully here in GW2, and became more of a supplement to other builds.

The reason the corruption skills apply conditions to you is that Anet originally wanted the necro to sacrifice his own health for a lot of skills. However they thought this concept was too complicated for players and instead made it condition application.

Axe is lack luster in that the vulnerability doesn’t outweight it’s low damage ouput on auto attack. It’s otherwise good.

for self heal currently consume conditions is the best in PvP and well of blood is the highest self heal by a large margain. Until they fix the blood fiend and actually apply the 200% increase to the health siphon they claimed to have done in the november patch, it’s going to be sub-par unless you’re a minion master.

just so you know, the shadow fiend blind actually is a small AOE around the target.

spectal armor- It doesn’t have a big enough effect to warrant it’s use over other skills.

spectral grasp- it’s a cool idea but it really needs to be adjusted to be more reliable.

plague signet- why does this copy instead of draw?

signet of spite- why does it only apply 1 second of each condition? If it was more like 4-5 it would be considerable.

I’m glad to see we run the same build. I personally prefer the bone minions though as they self combo with death nova and are single-handedly our strongest nuke. They also apply a much higher DPS against 2 or more enemies if you can get their blasts off.

However, the flesh wurm is by far more reliable in any one on one fight.

I don’t have the same life force generation issue. In fact more often then not I have full life force before it comes off cooldown since axe+focus/staff has so many ways to gain life force.

Also, I personally think DS is almost always worth using when you have the cooldowns up off of it. That single target fear is great in PvP and the gap closer is useful for catching anyone who flees the horde. I don’t even need to mention how amazing life transfusion is for minion up-keep.

removing the jagged horror cooldown and degen while making them spawn off of minions dieing instead of enemies would be great. simply move it up to a (selectable) grand master trait and call it a day.

as for protection of the horde, I honestly wouldn’t miss it. swapping it out for something more generally useful would be great.

Life stealing is a supplement. It compliments other builds. Right now there simply isn’t the ground work to make a true life stealing focused build.

I would be happy with a weapon that only had one summon skill as long as it synergized well with minions.

It has synergy with any build that focuses on direct damage, but it’s hard to justify using it over the staff.

If the auto attack was better it would be an axecellent weapon.

-blood fiend gets a 200% “buff” to it’s health steal that doesn’t actually get applied (still old value)
-Minion AI (which has been buggy since BWE1) still hasn’t been fixed
-bone minion putrid explosion still has a 3 second delay when it activates combo fields
-the number of ticks on death nova is bugged
-bosses with AOE mechanics that scale with number of allies shut minions completely out of many dungeon paths.

There are many issues with minions that need to be fixed before any buffs can happen sadly. How long it’s gonna take for us to actually get these fixes could take a substantial amount of time (look at shadow form in GW1).

Jagged horrors are counted as minions since they activate death nova. It’s a bug that flesh of the master doesn’t affect them.

Levian.6742:

Sorry, the only elite we have access to underwater is Plague.

I find underwater combat terrible in general, all the abilities I normally use are disabled so I’m forced to take minions just for the sake of ease

that’s funny because our only underwater elite kills all of our minions.

the fact that mesmer gets access to all of their minions underwater saddens me. I seriously get the feeling this game is only 60% finished sometimes.

warriors can vengeance res off of minions.

The guild wars 2 necromancer is a LOT more fun than guild wars 1 necro. I simply cannot go back to guild wars 1 minion master.

guild wars 1 minion master was:
1. summon minions
2.heal minions
3.maintain buffs
4. go back to step one

while in guild wars 2 we can blow up minions, teleport to them, use 14 different spells while still having our minions, make the shadow fiend teleport to the enemy, ect. There simply is more to do as a minion master, even if the AI is less responsive in PvE. (minions in PvP in guild wars 1 always had a responsiveness issue).

I’m starting to think we need to make a new thread since we are hashes hasn’t posted or updated in two months, and a lot of the bug list is outdated.

I’m suggesting a change based on my opinions shown in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/AOE-mechanics/first#post858011

In short I feel like AOEs shouldn’t scale off of the number of allies, but instead have a flat number as it shuts some builds entirely out of certain instances. To keep pet builds in check to avoid people running around letting the AI kill mobs I propose a “smart spread” system.

The best solution I can come up with is to make the AOEs have a flat number but make the AOEs have a “smart spread” depending on the boss. Bosses that simply have flat AOEs should send 20% of the AOE to allies and 80% at players. Since the AI will not try to avoid the AOE, that 20% will go a long way, but not completely shut out a build as there is a natural spread to most pet builds. Mechanic based AOEs will only target players (like lupicus grub summon) so as to not make pets completely detrimental.

A more ambitious approach would be to make the smart spread change depending on ally proximity to ensure that the AOE doesn’t go wasted.

Since most AOEs have a cap of 5 targets, As the number of targets increases, so does the likely hood AOEs target that location. If 5 allies are in one location 1 AOE is sent there as that’s the most effective ratio. If there are 6 then it will probably still only send 1, but if the number is closer to 8 or 9 then it’s likely 2 AOEs will be thrown there to guarentee the damage is maximized.

bump for feedback.

I’d get the increased health and cooldown, and then vampiric minions. The minion damage boost isn’t doing you any good if they’re dead, and if you aren’t keeping yourself alive you can’t summon more to deal damage, so get training of the master as one of your last traits.

Savan I don’t think you even play necromancer to be honest if you can’t see how large an impact losing the only guarenteed interrupt we had is.

Hell, if you can’t see how big an impact it is period I don’t think you play MMOs at all.

Fear gave us something we could bring to the table in any build (always in death shroud) to be useful in a dungeon. It was something unique to us in that we could use it much more often than other classes.

I loved it for the Howling king, The butcher, and other bosses with CRAZY damage channels because it made me useful to my team (some of which can’t be avoided like the rumbler’s freaking seismic scream). Now unless we all use mumble to coordinator our CC use-age by letting the others know when we are using a CC spell in order to get his charges down to 0 so we CAN interrupt we won’t get anything done.

To be honest if Anet wants to go this direction with bosses, they need to make it so that bosses stay in their “stackless” state so we can coordinate the interrupts with less pain.

As it stands we are in a terrible where state where the necro doesn’t have his guaranteed interrupts and brings less to the table at the benefit of about nothing.

“lots of access to poison” like what? 2 weapon skills? Sure as a minion master I have a lot of poison, but that’s only because of death nova and my minions constantly being destroyed by AOEs.

Kill.6973:

3) Continuing to give hope in ANET to change and try to listen to the community.

It’s a two part reason really.

1. I still think it’s possible for Anet to fix the problems with the necro. They seem to be looking for the root of specific issues all together and apply the fix to all skills across all classes suffering from it. I don’t expect necro specific fixes so I’m not really in a rush.

2. They added a guaranteed way for me to get ascended gear with tokens, so now I’m happy to play again. I don’t want to abandon all the detail in this game.

Extremely dissapointed. I have no idea why you guys left Fractals as they are.
-Still uses the terrible RNG system
-Still has the D/C bug
-Still nothing done to make older dungeons worth while
-Fractals still crap all over everything this game stood for

well done.

I am extremely disappointed. Half the stuff buffed didn’t need it to begin with, and the stuff that REALLY needed fixing (AI bugs, signet that draws conditions, ect) still aren’t fixed.

fractals have killed the game for me:
1. RNG stupid drop system implemented
2. ONLY location to get best in slot gear
3. require a massive time investment into only one content source

The only thing that has honestly improved is the lower number of bots since the release of fractals. They otherwise seem to be killing the crap out of this game to me.

Why on earth do Fractals still use that stupid RNG drop system? I thought this was gonna be reprimanded?

Why on this green earth does it use the crappy RNG system instead of tokens? The fractal tokens aren’t even good for anything because the exotics you can get with them aren’t worth the obscene amount of tokens needed when you could just grind and pray to the RNG gods to give you an ascended item.

I’m just so disappointing it’s here to stay. I was hoping that Anet was better than this.

1. minion Ai fix
2. Reanimator buffed
3. Blood fiend health siphon fixed

1. Minion AI fix
2. Something done with reanimator
3. Blood fiend siphon fix

Robert Hrouda.1327:

If it is any consolation I am on scale 22 and have accrued over1600 fractal tokens and not yet gotten a ring either. It is RNG with the Jade Maw.

We are exploring alternatives to the current system.

Please Please Please for the love of all that is good in video games, do away entirely with the RNG loot system. It is such an archaic and terrible system.

-Fractals need to run on a token system. RNG for best in slot gear is a terrible decision that carried over to cater to WoW babies and is quickly destroying this community. I mean, nobody wants to grind fractals for hours on end only to get a crappy ascended ring that doesn’t give any of the stats they were looking for. The token system was perfect because I knew for a fact I was making progress and that I would get the reward I wanted at the end.

-The fact that I see more and more threads promoting ostracizing entire classes and anything that doesn’t run cookie cutter builds shows that there are some major flaws in class balance. People shouldn’t be forced to run an extremely specific build they may not enjoy just to be able to get the gear they want. This is a game not a job.

-Old dungeons may still have the skin factor to them, but they will quickly fade away unless something is done to give them more incentive. I’d like to see each dungeon be required to do in order to get a full set of ascended gear, or at the very least make it so old dungeons give something to help you get ascended gear. Maybe a dynamic event in each of them, like a portal from the mists that opens up and releases a boss you can defeat for fractal tokens..

I’d like a staff that is made entirely of shadow, like the sythe animation. This staff would make you leave a shadow trail behind, and you would have a faint darkness all around you.

XiL.4318:

striker.3704:

2. When Anet tried it they found that minions were simply too strong on non-minion focused builds.

This is blatant kittenery. Preventing minions from being too powerful would be as simple as making two traits in MM focus 20 and 30 required for scaling. Tardswaggle. Don’t make stuff up and offer it as advice. That’s not fair to people who don’t know any better.

Those traits you’re talking about for scaling are flesh of the master and training of the master.What am I making up and offering as advice? How is letting the person know what Anet did advice?

Saschare.2049:

Btw, what for would be trait making DS come back faster (5s CD DS), when in no way you can collect at least 50% of Life Force in 5s?

You’re really underestimating life force gain in PvE. With so much dieing around you, usually you will find yourself sitting on max life force. I can’t speak for PvP.

Tuccos.8592:

Now add Minion HP regen and fix their crappy AI, pathing and Necro would be on the same Level as Warriors, Guardians, Rangers in PvE. The resummon cooldowns are to long even with 20% reduction. i dont want to wait longer than 8 seconds to recast a pet. currently 16 sec is the fastest…

I also wonder why my characters stats dont influent all my Minions.
Some of my Toughness, Precicion, Power and Vitality should transfer to my Minions to make them more individual. If i want more Tanky Minions i stack Toughness , if i want more criticals i just Stack precicion. the pets could get 10-20% of my stats. That would help alot.

All togheter in WvW that all wouldnt change much because the pets die in 5 sec with or without extra Stats anyways….

An 8 second cooldown on ANY minion summon would be OP. At most the minions (as far as cooldown goes) could maybe use the minion master trait to reduce the cooldown on minion active abilities (rigor mortis, ect).

Minions don’t scale with stats for two reasons:
1. That’s the ranger pet shtick
2. When Anet tried it they found that minions were simply too strong on non-minion focused builds.

WvWvW doesn’t matter for class balancing.

XiL.4318:

I am pretty sure the fix you are talking about was made already…, to the tooltips. They say “destroy minions” in the description now right?

Nope. Anet put that as a disclaimer in the mean time. I think Jon mentioned how they don’t want elite forms killing minions and they want the flesh golem working underwater. The main issue they have is coding around how skill bars work.

When you swap skills it’s supposed to kill minions to prevent people from spawning them and simply equipping another utility. However when you transform it swaps all of your skills, killing all of your minions. This also applies to going underwater. Anet is working on the coding so the elite transformations (I don’t know about moa) don’t cause this to happen and so that the flesh golem can go underwater.

Anet wouldn’t design minion AI to be unresponsive and sluggish, it’s simply bad game design.

hackks.3687:

UndeadPriest.8632:

hackks.3687:

Staff is an extremely powerful weapon. It is not meant to be used solely by itself though. Swapping weapons is a requirement for playing any class to its fullest. If you want to spam AAs to kill things I suggest you look into ranger short bow.

When did I ever suggest Spamming AA’s was a good thing?,
You need to actually read my post,
I frankly feel too much emphasis is being placed on the Auto-Attack.
I would rather be able to spend more time using other skills,
rather than having nothing but AutoAttacks while waiting for the other skills to come off their cooldowns.

when did I ever suggest spamming AAs was a good thing. You merely commented to the effect that you feel you are overly reliant on them. I merely suggested you look deeper into the class to find a way to expand your game play or opt for a simpler, less complicated class to play.

I’ll post what you said again so you can think about it some more

UndeadPriest.8632:

So as I stated before

I think the more import failure is with the Marks (staff skills 2-5) and their recharges (i.e. your spending most of your time auto-attacking unless you swap weapons)
If the recharges on all the marks was decreased
say by like 30-40% (a very rough estimate) than this would make it so Staff wielding Necromancers were not spending so much time relying on their auto-attack
(Except Mark of Blood, I think it’s recharge is at a pretty good point where it is.)

The fact that you say “(i.e. your spending most of your time auto-attacking unless you swap weapons)” suggests you are spamming AAs while you wait for your marks to come off CD rather than swapping weapons/swapping to DS/swapping to Elite/dropping wells/slinging corruptions/etc. There is more to the class than what you are suggesting here.

what he means is that for most necromancer’s the staff is pretty much:
-swap from whatever weapon you were currently using
-drop all marks on the enemy for the combo, chill, damage, weakness, and bleeding
-wait for 15 seconds to be able to go back to your other weapon

It makes sense too, mark of blood has a short cooldown so it gets spammed and chiblains is a simple chill+poison field so it’s a good one to use off cooldown.

putrid mark and reaper’s mark are the only two which have utility. Even then it’s a simple matter of reading your enemy to know what is best to do with them.
condition enemy? wait for a big stack of conditions then use it to send it back.
power based enemy? use it to activate the chiblains combo field for weakness.

for most fights you end up just hitting 2->3->4 right off the bat only leaving reaper’s mark. This means you will be auto attacking and occasionally dropping a mark of blood for about 10-12 seconds waiting on cooldown for weapon swap. That’s a long time, so I can see why he would like a shorter cooldown on marks.

besides, even if you open with the staff instead of your other set, as soon as you switch to the staff you’re back to square one.

Ramiah.5648:

Interesting. Okay what I may do then is play a Guardian first to really get to learn the game. If I can summon and support fairly easily as a Guardian, that may be better to start, before trying a necro. Obviously, I don’t know the dungeons or the bosses and I don’t have good timing yet. If Necromancer needs that to be solid in a dungeon, that doesn’t describe me yet.
I will return to necromancer after I have learned the game by playing a Guardian. Hopefully by then, the minion AI and the other things I hear about Necro will be resolved.
Besides, I kinda wanted to be a Sylvari for my first character, but a Sylvari Guardian is more fascinating to me than a necro. I also like being a “hipster” I believe you people call it and it seems like there are far more Sylvari Necros than Guardians.
Thanks for the advice, even if it was that another profession would suit me more.

just sayin’ sylvari guardian isn’t all that hipster. If you want hipster you would need to go charr mesmer or something.

I remember Jon mentioned how they wanted to do something about flesh golem underwater, I think he mentioned that they wanted to make it able to swim but couldn’t for X reason, I might be wrong though.

gamefreak.5673:

This was a good read on the necromancer forum. I agree with almost everything but the minion part. I still think they need to have the recast time be cut in half and it applies when they summon not on death. This way once they fix the AI we will be able to keep putting them back into the fight quicker. Having them die to 1 aoe is fine, if we can get them back in the fight and not just have a full utility bar of dead minions.

In all honesty minion masters would become incredibly over powered if either of those changes were made true. If you cut the cooldown in half on bone minion summons we would have an 8 second cooldown on two 2000+ damage nukes, and the blood fiend heal would become way too good. If the cooldown started on summon you would become very hard pressed to survive a fight with a minion master who has had all of his minions up for more than 30 seconds.

War mourner is right in that we should wait for an Ai fix.
I'm gonna go ahead and contradict myself and say I think the minion master trait should reduce minion active cooldowns alongside the re-summon cooldown.

KirinDave.6451:

Engineers are in desperate need of a rework because many of their mechanics seem poorly considered (you think minions are bad? Try turrets!).

So: relax. Necromancer is not the worst off of the bunch, and no one is pretending they don’t need soem dev love. But the extremism you’re resorting two only makes the devs less likely to listen to you. And remember that this game is actually 3 games in one; PvE, PvP, and Wv3. Getting every class balanced in every field will take time.

Now hold up, engineer turrets aren’t worse than necromancer minions. At least the turrets can be spread out so they aren’t killed by the same single AOE, regen their own health (when traited), can be blown up for a blast finisher+damage, and even give you abilities to use when the turret is dead. Minions on the other hand pile up to eat a single AOE and then are all put on cooldown for 16-45 seconds (depending on the minion) removing a large portion of your damage without any consolation (I mean they don’t even give LF when they die for goodness sakes).

Also you can’t use WvWvW as an argument for balance as WvWvW isn’t meant to be balanced. sPvP and PvE are relatively easy to balance as long as Anet holds the [split for PvP and PvE] key.

Your weapon selection is fine. You don’t really need to worry about swapping weapons out later on into the game unless you get a full set of exotics for one specific build and then decide you don’t like that build anymore.

In all honesty the only combination that doesn’t make sense is scepter/warhorn. Other than that you can go to town.

PC master race!

In all seriousness I think human is the best race for necromancers as it matches the lore the most.

alanis.6094:

striker.3704:

I don’t agree with any of your trait stat distributions at all. They don’t make sense with ANY of the traits in those lines.

As I said in the note above:

“Of Note: This may (will) require some movement in current traits, for example you wouldn’t want Lingering Curses to remain in a Precision/Crit Damage trait line.”

The point was to pair the primary and secondary attributes that best fit to each trait line. From there, you can distribute the specific traits as needed.

There’s also extreme bias saying that the condition tree is our class mechanic when the necromancer is evenly split between all of his possible utility builds.

The crux of the entire argument was primarily dealing with Death Shroud. I’m not sure where you are getting the idea that I believe the “condition tree” (?) is our class mechanic. I merely wanted to bring up some ideas on making Death Shroud more fun and useful for various builds and playstyles, while also addressing one of our biggest problems — the lack of boons.

Alright I apologize for my original post. I assumed you were putting the traits in order of their in-game placement, so I thought you were calling conditions our “primary mechanic”.

However, I still disagree with the way you moved the traits about. Condition damage on the toughness tree in my opinion would really mess up minion masters as that utility line only has synergy with power builds as of right now.

I do however like the inclusion of new buff applications in each trait line. I’m a big fan of making each tree have something to offer each build type in order to create more diversity. If you included a trait in soul reaping to make the buff application AOE I could see support necromancer becoming a lot more beneficial to teams.

One thing to consider though; necromancer has always been an “offensive” support through debuffs, especially in guild wars 1. In that sense the necromancer already has the traits to support that sense in the same way you mention. So it might be more in line with his design to add traits like weakening shroud to other trees.

Brienson.7319:

striker.3704:

alanis.6094:

alanis.6094:

striker.3704:

alanis.6094:

RashanDale.3609:

alanis.6094:

JonPeters.5630:

3 notes

1) it seems to be failing because of a rounding error which we are working on fixing right now.
2) we are buffing it next patch on top of fixing it.
3) carry on.

Thanks for the update! I’m hoping the team realized that 5% is just absurdly small, and 20-25% feels much more appropriate.

20%-25% on the other hand would be a must-have for almost every necro. not sure if i want that.

Necrotic bite would go from 4% to 5%.

FoC would go from 2% to 2.5% per condition.

Necrotic Grasp would go from 3% to 3.75%

…25% is perfectly fine.

It doesn’t sound like a lot on paper but it adds up quickly. Not to mention at a 5 point investment for 25% faster life force generation is a bit crazy. That’s better than most of our grand master passive traits.

Just because our GM (and most other traits) are pretty terrible, doesn’t mean this is OP. I can name 6-7 minor traits on my Mesmer that are more powerful than this.

And to go a bit further— in comparison to my Mesmer, if their traits are a good baseline it wouldn’t be outrageous to have this trait:

“All abilities that inflict conditions recharge 20% faster” as a 5pt minor trait.

Basically, many classes have strong stuff out there — while 25% more LF sounds like a lot, I don’t think its really that much. If it gets buffed to 10%, it is still a very, very weak trait.

The issue I have with it isn’t that the rest of the skills are under powered. It’s that if this trait becomes THAT much better than everything else it becomes a must have for any necro. I don’t want to see anything become like that for all builds.

25% doesn’t sound like much, but that’s still 25% less time needed to generate life force which could be a big deal.

meanwhile, mesmer has a 5 point trait that gives them 20% CDR on a massive amount of skills — both utility and weapon skills.

Like I mentioned before, the value for the trait shouldn’t be based on other classes but instead be based on the relative value of our existing traits. If all of our traits need buffing, then it should be done in little bits or all at once. Not in chunks that favor certain specs.

XiL.4318:

I know we’re supposed to play nice but I see too many stupid.

Minion AI makes using Minions with the current system, THE MOST SITUATIONAL MECHANIC IN THE GAME.

Arguing that using corpses would be too situational is like floating in the middle of the Pacific and having an argument over MAKING THE OCEAN TOO WET IF YOU PEE. Holy potato loving tardstorm.

Necro is for summoning the dead. Not the dirt. You epic wastes of consciousness. Go play a thief or a ele and stop trying to drop deuce on everything it means to be a NECRO.

This message brought to you by What it Means to be a kittenING NECRO.

Well well well, someone’s mad.

You could try to add something to the conversation instead of mindlessly insulting people.

RashanDale.3609:

striker.3704:

This is an issue with a number of abilities. I know the blood fiend’s numbers act funny depending on the zone your in as well. it’s definitely a bug though.

so this is a known issue?
kitten that was completely new to me oO

Stat inconsistency is a known issue, but I don’t know if it is known specifically about lich form.

The minions have a bone to pick with you since you left the blood fiend out of your little party.

Kardiamond.6952:

Giving the control like a Ranger would work. It would be the best solution, and the solution most game use.

You can also make minion attack when you attack something, I think it’s how it’s supose to be right now. It would be Ok, still not the Ranger control, but since they are undead/demon minion, it would be logic.

The only thing I disagree with your post is the ability to command minions. That’s kinda the ranger’s thing.

I think Jon said minions were supposed to only attack what you attack. We obviously know this isn’t true at times, but I’m hoping the AI gets fixed soon™.

alanis.6094:

alanis.6094:

striker.3704:

alanis.6094:

RashanDale.3609:

alanis.6094:

JonPeters.5630:

3 notes

1) it seems to be failing because of a rounding error which we are working on fixing right now.
2) we are buffing it next patch on top of fixing it.
3) carry on.

Thanks for the update! I’m hoping the team realized that 5% is just absurdly small, and 20-25% feels much more appropriate.

20%-25% on the other hand would be a must-have for almost every necro. not sure if i want that.

Necrotic bite would go from 4% to 5%.

FoC would go from 2% to 2.5% per condition.

Necrotic Grasp would go from 3% to 3.75%

…25% is perfectly fine.

It doesn’t sound like a lot on paper but it adds up quickly. Not to mention at a 5 point investment for 25% faster life force generation is a bit crazy. That’s better than most of our grand master passive traits.

Just because our GM (and most other traits) are pretty terrible, doesn’t mean this is OP. I can name 6-7 minor traits on my Mesmer that are more powerful than this.

And to go a bit further— in comparison to my Mesmer, if their traits are a good baseline it wouldn’t be outrageous to have this trait:

“All abilities that inflict conditions recharge 20% faster” as a 5pt minor trait.

Basically, many classes have strong stuff out there — while 25% more LF sounds like a lot, I don’t think its really that much. If it gets buffed to 10%, it is still a very, very weak trait.

The issue I have with it isn’t that the rest of the skills are under powered. It’s that if this trait becomes THAT much better than everything else it becomes a must have for any necro. I don’t want to see anything become like that for all builds.

25% doesn’t sound like much, but that’s still 25% less time needed to generate life force which could be a big deal.