Guild Wars 2

Talking about conditions

I think that a balance between intensity and duration is the ideal solution but… conditions can be cleared so, wouldn’t be better to try to deal as much damage in a short time frame than watered damage in a longer period?

yeah, I agree but what about food and buff? :P

Hello Osi, great video as usual. I didn’t think this rune set would work
Which food and buff do you use?
Also, how do you find yourself without speed buff? Have you tried sigil of speed? do you think it could work?

Thnx

would sigil of speed be viable in wvw? can a critter be counted as foe?

If (if) for ANet balance is an issue and they think mesmers shouldn’t have, like other professions, a reliable movement speed other than focus or runes I would make Compounding Celerity work the other way round: 25% buff speed with no illusions out and decrease it the more illusions you have active. This way we could travel as fast as others can do and “slowed down” while in combat, which, considering our in combat mobility isn’t really a problem for mesmers.

Sorry for not being very clear but the most important question is, given the coefficient how do you calculate the damage?

a bit of a noob question here.
I see from the wiki that superior sigil of air has a 1.1 coefficient vs 0.85 for s.s.o. fire
They are both on a 50% chance trigger with internal cd of 3sec x air and 5sec x fire.
Fire is aoe and air single target

Which one is better? How do you calculate the damage? Is it based on condition damage?

thank you

must be a bug because iduelist works fine with pistol traited + IC

Xaylin.1860:

It is a quite frequent suggestion and also pretty controversial since DE has such a strong effect on the class. You might want to have a look at more recent discussions.

Thread 1
Thread 2

I didn’t know about those 3ds but it’s comforting me… I reached the same conclusion as other did so, I am not the only crazy here

Whether DE was moved a tier becuase OP or because was getting in the way of phantasm builds I don not know, however it would be great to have it on adept tier again, although I really doubt that will ever happen unless the mesmer community pushes all together in one direction, as one, very much like with lockdown playstyle where devs seemed they took Chaos inputs and added a new trait…

Shall we?

Seras.5702:

This build will be made non-functional in a few hours. The update is fixing DE so that it doesn’t proc a clone if you have 3 up already.

Sure about that? I thought Anet changed their mind about it. Correct me if I am wrong, though

Seeing how mandatory DE is in almost any builds (actually I’d argue which build DE wouldn’t do some good in way or another), wouldn’t it be a good idea to drop it to adept tier? I am sure it would open up so many 30/10/30 be it power, condi, hybrid, shatter or phantasm builds.

Of course you can always play without DE but I have yet to see someone doing it with a great deal of success. And yet, it would be a specific build, a niche build, which doesn’t really help with diversity and the Anet concept of it.

Thoughts?

Thedenofsin.7340:

Here is what I recommend: 10/30/30 – with Lyssa and Rampager’s

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQNAsaWlknpRtlpxWNcrNiY6RwhcAHpClWpH4WudhA-TsAg1CqIKSVkrITRyisFNWY5x0DA

Why Rampager’s? Because BLEEDS.

This build gives your iDuelist a 90% crit chance, which is insane for bleed damage.

Hotjoin heroes will enjoy stacking this with a Signet of Ether. I’ve spiked 17 stacks of bleeds on a thief within 4 seconds of opening (~1300 dps in bleed damage).

If I get the initiative, this is my opener:
Pistol 4 -> Sword 3 + Swap -> Sword 2 -> Pistol 5 -> Weapon Swap -> Staff 5

This opens up with Duelist and a swap-Blurred Frenzy Combo. You follow up with Pistol 5, stunning them. Then swap to Staff, which will proc bleeds from Signet of Geomancy and drop a Chaos Storm on top of them. After a couple of seconds I Phase Retreat out to get Chaos Armor. This sets you up for the rest of the fight.

This opener will cause many opponents to blow their condition cleanse as well and/or their heal.

Thedenofsin I like your build. It must be hilarious to see all those bleedings flying around. I might try it at some point. But it feels kind of squishy compared to what I am using now, which gives me stronger but less bleeds (+/- 120 x tick)

Allarious, I still like lockdown but I kind of moved away from it (for now). I learnt a lot while playing it but the way I see the game changes every time I start looking at what I want to accomplish. An that is now: less rage quitting vs hambows and thieves.

Much like skcamow says (thank for the food for thoughts). I checked your latest condition video with focus and decided to try it myself (not traited though). Good bleedings and nice control. I’d love to reflect projectiles with curtain…

Cyyrix, what you say is true and it’s a way I could handle wars. But I chose the hard way. And it looks like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQRAra8dlknpNtNqxMNcrNiYmRw5boPYdleYbXYuB-TwAAzCpIaS1krJTTymsNNAZByehpFA

It’s amazing how well I can now handle warriors AND thieves. I am very satisfied with it.
The alternatives that I like to swap depending on sytuations are:

- change duelist discipline for phantasmal fury. Or have them both but dropping far-reaching manipualtion, which I got addicted to. However, this would also force me to drop AT because it’s kind of useless on a 900yrds range
- change bountiful interruption for shorter manipulation cd
- change blind on glamours for longer confusions depending on whether I use AT or NF

Dropping 10 points from dueling tree can open up various options:

- 10 points in domination for cripple on clones death (not recommending other traits here because of the low power based build)
- 10 points in inspiration for Mender’s Purity (allow you to drop a condi removal utility) or shorter glamours
- 5 points in Chaos for CI or PU and 5 in illusions for phanstasmal haste (good with pistol) or Elasticity if you want to swap sw/f for Staff or Gs

I think these are all good options which resolve around conditions type of game style. I do not know if you like it, but it’ll surely help vs fotm builds from other classes. The only hard counter I found so far was a terrormancer but judging from his lvl it would have been troublesome with any other build, at least with my skill level.

Lets see what the patch will bring but I think this build can still work well even after that.
wvw. I copied/pasted the build and gear to wvw. Not bad at all for roaming. During blob fights I mainly used pistol with increased range at the edge of the fight + scepter. Was able to down people and ecape easily. It’s not like “wearing” PU. Its aegis is just too good in those situations, still I think it does hurt (duelist do not run in to the aoe immediately) and survivability is great with manipulations + IC traits.

I am reluctant in giving up chaotic transference because I’m thinking of switching runes to undead, like Carpboy says. Alternatively I would take longer confusions if I decide to go for perplexity. The 10/20/20/0/20 is the other build I thought of and will surely try once the update in live (still don’t know what is better between IE and PH in the illusion tree)
But my question still stands. Have you guys managed to climb the ladder with similar builds/play style?

There has been several 3D on thieves already so I apologize for opening another one. But aint gonna be complaining or asking for tips and tricks. Just asking for opinion on a build.

But first I just wanted to point out that I am still in love with lockdown, which is by far my preferred playstyle. I like shatter too, and that is still my second choice when changing build after having played lockdown for quite a while. Lately I have been running Shatterlock with a good degree of success.

But. It is always hambows and thieves (perma evasion/perma stealth) which, at some point, will stress my skills and builds to my very limits. I do win against them, don’t get me wrong but while lock down has improved my skills and awareness vs many professions and sometimes faceroll some classes, I still find these two professions in spvp brackets hard to deal with. I especially feel it is unfair for warriors to manage to cap a point while firing their bow at you while you are trying to deal damage with GS (literally letting them to take the point). Than you realize they regen health faster than you do damage. How can it be possible?!? So, lets close the gap and try to melee them down (right :| ). A quick switch of hammer and all is sorted…

Thieves cannot capture a points like warriors/guardians/necros/engis can do but they are slippery and vicious. Lock down helped me but not as much as I wished to. It is really difficult to pin them down when in perma evasion. Shatter… well, they just eat you alive.

I have already taken into account a l2p issue and I frankly do not have problem admitting one is better than me (i.e. last fight in the new Alissa movie vs thief I would have surely died there, but Alissa is better than me as much as that thief would outplay me any day).

However, I wanted to give bread for bread (or eye for and eye, not sure how to say it in English) to those cheese builds out there. Didn’t want to fall in the PU pattern nevertheless I tried this and I could immediately feel a difference when dealing with those professions on capture points:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQNAW7alknpUtNqxMNcrRiYmRwhcoPYdkKUalUYbXIA-TsAAzCpI+R9j7HzPyfs/MAZByuCA

Going back to a condition based build feels a bit odd but it makes me slippery almost as a thief, able to handle 2-3 opponents and if people don’t run they will eventually die.

Question. How would you improve it (if any improvement is really needed)? What do you think its weaknesses are? I don’t do much organized tpvp but it seems working fine in hotjoint tpvp. Where can this build lead me?

I am ignorant, but why do you say it only has effect with interrupting skills that require casting time? Where is it written?

Aside the black part (I actually thought it was made on purpose -_- ) I found your video amazing. You should team up with Chaos: his narrative skills and your video editing skills would give birth to some interesting ideas in the movie industry Who knows?!?

Very well done

PS: regarding the ingame aspect of the video I really enjoyed the final battle. I probably wouldn’t have been able to beat that thief. Can you explain what kind of thief was that? I mean weapons/build etc because I reckognized it as the playstyle I struggle the most with (nearly impossible to interrupt/nail down). Any trick you would recommend?

eheh… this is exactly what I have come to realize.

I thought it could be a L2p issue from my side but frankly, I wish it was… and your 3D is the proof. And tbh, all videos out there showing great (or even those not so great) battles, always rely on high invisibility with at least 2 means to achieve it (often decoy and MI) up to 4 (decoy, torch, MI and veil and PU to top it off).

Yes, I think all builds show have at least 1 of these, plus blink and/or DE. Else we wouldn’t be able to be deceptive at all. Without all these “tricks” we would be like a thief without stealth… which is its main defensive tool.

PS: talking about pvp and wvw here, ofc

I do not want to be rude but… I started wondering if Anet is short of staff/money. In which case why not a monthly subscription? The game would be worth it… I love this game. Seriously.
I never complained about in game bugs because I always thought Anet would have had fix them soon or later. But after reading this post I started wondering why a problem like this hasn’t been fixed yet. And everything leads me to think that they do not have the time or the man power to address it. I do not what to believe they do not care.

The build looks nice. If you are having problems with necros I’d say to swap AT for mantra or resolve (imho the best condi removal we have). Also, dropping 10 points from illusions for inspiration would let you take Mender’s Purity, in which case Mirror could fit better (faster recharge/more boon clearing).
Moreover I see mirror images to fit a pure shatter build better and thus I would swap it with a disengage utility like decoy or blink or any other utility you feel the build is missing

btw. Nettle build reminds me of why Blizzard introduced Diminishing return debuff in WoW pvp at a certain point… the amount of cc from mages and locks was so outrageous that people were screaming for it. I hope your build will not trigger some wicked ideas in Anet’s mind

StickerHappy.8052:

@Nettle

Very interesting. How do you handle the no vigor? and low prec?

that is why I went 30/10/30/0/0

@nettle
it seems really strong although it’s sort of “I kill you in few seconds or I will die” build.
No stealth, no blink, no DE but lot of interrupts though and MoA. I am sure it works for you. Stability is a big issue but you can strip it by shattering it and that’s ok. I hope it is enough. I wonder if double fire sigils are worth with such low crit rate.
Interesting though

Ross Biddle.2367:

I recently pulled out a pistol for an encounter with a particular perplexity thief, which was the first time I’d used pistol since sometime after release. Over all this time I ran scepter/torch + staff initially, then changed to scepter/torch + sword/focus. So it was quite rare, and almost a little random. Right tool for the job is all I can say (thanks to iWarden being broken, cheers Anet).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9BceGSMbEQ

Nice video Ross. Do you think you would have won/easier/harder if you used focus? Is focus better vs thieves?

Hey nettle, I replied to you on the other 3d.
I love pistol, don’t get me wrong but it overwrites CI that’s why not everyone likes it in a lockdown CI based build. I’d probably use pistol with FI though.
The nice thing about focus is that you can cast curtain and let it stay there for few secs, take the buff, cripple the enemies and aoe pull at the right moment either for escaping, chasing or controlling the field. I also think that focus is better vs thieves but it could be just a personal preference

Nettle.9025:

20/20/30 might be the most versatile, but I’ve found a 30/0/30/10/0 that is better as a pure pressure lockdown spec. It has a higher skill ceiling, but if I play it well I can 100->0 almost anything outside of guardians while hardly being touched. This is in top 1000 tPvP play.

The only thing I’ve had to get used to was not using DE as a crutch to churn out clones, and better usage of more limited dodging. Once I got past that, I’ve found this to be the strongest trait spread for lockdown in tPvP.

The 30 in dom allows me to take harmonious mantras, which gives me an additional mantra daze and a 3 charge mantra heal that cleanses 6 condis every ~12s. This frees up a utility slot to allow me to take signet of domination, which is what I feel puts the build over the top for massively long chained lockdown (approx ~12s continuous stun/daze, ~22s with moa).

I was using 30/10/30/0/0 with traited mantras but with MoR as condi removal. A lot of fun. Your build seems good but having low crit kind of sucks in pvp. Mind linking the build to see the gear, etc?

I am not trying to play the devil’s advocate but… isn’t killing an opponents rewarding enough? When you interrupt someone you get an advantage. If it’s done multiple times during the fight you will most likely win.
Beside giving you a clear adavantage, interrupts reward you if you pick the right talents (BI, CI, FI, CS and HS. Minor traits in domination…). I never played gw1 so I do not know what you guys are talking about but to me it all falls in to the right place.

I agree that thieves are almost immune and that there is too much reliance on passive effects but while a warrior needs to be interrupted several times before you can kill him, thieves need to be interrupted 2 times. And you win, albeit not easy.

Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have lock-down play style buffed. But it is fun even in its current form and I see it as turning point between average and good players.

@shattenlied
I am pretty much using the same build except the other night I was using focus instead of sword, MoD instead of blink and different sigils. Read on for more details.
Defenitely a great build. So far I am satisfied. Haven’t tried in wvw yet. Will let you know.

@gesho
like shattenlied says, it can be used for anything. Because of its long cd, I tend to loose track of when quickness procs if the fight last for a while, thus I just take the nice boost for whatever I am doing at the moment be dps, healing, ressing, stomping. But it can also go wasted for 3 secs isn’t very long and you could be just running away in that moment. Good trait, but defenitely it needs a little boost. I take it because I like having 300 in crit and 30% crit damage and the boost it’s handy to have.

@calavel
tried it. I dunno… having MP with MoR as the only condi removal feels enough for certain fights and defenitely not enough for others. Went back to Mantra of Resolve which is by far the best condi removal we’ve got imho.

@raunchy
I agree with what you say on MP and MoR. In fact I decided to drop inspiration line and went 10pts in domination for halting strike, which I love. Ether my heal now.
For sigils I still like battle on swap for both weapons. First because 10pts in dom. feels not enough and I want more power and second because it boosts bleeds too. Runes, I tried lyssa and air. Both solid options. But I went back to speed. The boost provided almost feels like I am on a different profession, such is the greatness of speed in this game. I seem to down performing when not using a speed buff while I do amazing thing when using it. Top it off with a larger hp pool and I feel god.

Last. I went for focus rather than pistol. iWarden seems less buggy now… at least in pvp it works fine. And I have to say that I prefer a mobile iwarden over a static one (given it works) because chances the fight will stay in the same spot are not many. If it does the phantasm will likely not last long at all. It was a glorious night yesterday

I like it and I think it fits the story but after two runs I had the feeling I was on pc for 4hrs.
Went to do pvp and the feeling was gone. I actually carried on playing pvp for 4hrs

Sorry for hijacking the thread but do you think blade shards will be still available with next update? I have very limited play time and still need 500pcs

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Oh forgot to mention.. Sigils and such, if not Energy, then fire or hydromancy.

And I’d vote Lyssa Runes as my top (you already get a bunch of random boons, may as well add more on your heal as well as a bit of condi mitigation) , Grenth runes second (AoE chill ftw, especially if you slot a hydromancy rune on staff).

I like Lyssa. It would boost crit even more. Why not chill on crit then?

Good point Chaos. But failing to remove boons with null field when ppl dodge over it it’s kind of meh. And cd it’s pretty long; not really sure about it.
I think that spending those 10 pts will depend on chosen utilities:

1. MoD + blink + decoy —> inspiration for mender’s
2. MoD + blink/decoy + boons removal —> domination or inspiration for extra boon removal

And chosen trait lines will dictate weapon:

1. Inspiration —> Gs. More aggressive but blink & decoy will help
2. Domination —> Staff. Only one disengage tool feels a bit risky. Staff can help a bit

@ schattenlied

Yours is a valid build too and one I have munched on for a while. Only lacking in boons removal.
Weapons. I would run with Gs only if I decide to have both decoy and blink. If not, staff feels safer.
Sword vs pistol. Sword lets you have more dazes. Pistol more bleeds. I guess it’s down to personal choice and armor. I like your WvW setup. What would you use in pvp?

I agree. In fact I was thinking either 10 pt in dom. + MoR or 10 pt in ins. + Disenchanter.
Any idea what gear would be best?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAsaWlwzCpnRTmGb9IipHBnvJcnKAdlewbXItB

Here it is. All gear is missing.

Ty

In the past few months I have been using many variations of so called lockdown builds and so far I enjoied them all. Really fun play style and probably the one with more longevity. I went from Chaos’s Mindcrush 30/10/0/0/30 to my 30/10/30/0/0. Recently I keep switching from 20/20/30/0/0 (arguably the best talents spread) to a 20/30/20/0/0 which I find similar. It could even be better than the most common 20/20/30 if the FI internal CD was less than 15sec.

So, instead of keep swapping between the two builds I though… why not merging them together? But I’d like to hearing from you, Lockdown lovers, how you would finish the build.

The core of this build I have in mind is 30 in dueling with FI and 30 in chaos for CI. Imagine how you would feel by interruptin somone, nailing him down and having 3 sec of quickness. I can’t wait to try it :P.
10 Points to spare. Would you put them in domination for halting strike? (I just love it but the build will be somehow a bit short on power, so the trait would end up hitting like a wet noodle).
Or do you see a better talent for the spot?

Alternatively I am thinking of 10pt in Inspiration for Mender’s purity.

Weapons. High crit rate means sharper images and a lot of bleeds. Sword+pistol would be my first choice. However, izerker and iwarden are solid choices for bleeds. Initially I thought to go with GS and sw+p or sw+f. However these aggressive weapons sets will force me to pick at least 2 disengage utilities like blink and decoy. But this leads me to the Utilities:

MoD is a must which means no slot for a condition removal (I do not think mender’s purity will be enough). Consequently, given (MoD)(Blink or Decoy)(MoR or Disenchanter) mandatory, I feel GS+sword/pistol or focus to be too aggressive if not backed up by at least 2 disengage utilities (not counting MI here). Therefore I am thinking of using a softer 2h, like Staff instead of GS. Second set sw+p or focus.

Gear. I am debated between pumping on crit chance/crit damage, power, a mixture of the two, or prioritize condi duration since lack of points in domination will make bleeds suffer. Also, I do like chill and wouldn’t mind adding a sigil.

I’d appreciate your imput on sigils, runes and the gear generally speaking.

Thanks!

StickerHappy.8052:

Just a question to all you lockdown mesmers. Is it just me or do we have something missing from the lockdown aspect in terms of traits skills or weapon skills.?

I admit that i miss the gw1 mes. But i just could not shrug off that feeling that Im missing something when playing lockdown builds. That feeling of having 1 more skill or trait that would synergize the whole concept of lockdown better.

Dunno, never played gw1 O_o
What kind of skill are you thinking of that synergizes with the lockdown concept?
There are already few traits that emphasize it. Without mentioning grandmaster traits, we have Halting strike and Bountiful interruption. Are you saying you would like more?

Edit: as far as weapons, almost all of our kitten nal have a way for interrupting, either by RNG or at will. I wouldn’t mind having more but I think it’s all well placed now.

Not really trying to be mean, but the fight might have been fun but honestly it doens’t prove anything.
Ok, you are at a camp with npcs “disturbing” you, but the fight is always 2v1 and 3v1 until the end when more enemies come at the same time. And you run.
If your aim was to show that PU can work without relying on heavy use of stealth well, it may have succeded but the thing is that stealthing wasn’t really needed since no one ever focused you.

Overall a fun video but that’s all

Chaos Archangel.5071:

@trooper: I’ve actually never ran 20/30/20, how’d you like it? Everytime I used Furious it was with either 30/30/10 (loved it there) or 10/30/0/0/30 (here.. not so much)

It’s fun. Play style is very similar to 20/20/30 except FI trait wouldn’t be worth if used with 2 weapons sets with interrupt capabilities (15sec internal cd makes it sort of wasted trait if you interrupt often).
So, I push hard while on GS to have at least FI proc once. When swappig weapons I am on sword/torch with no interrupt options (except for MoD which I keep for hairy moments or when swapping back to GS). In the time frame I am on torch FI is on CD so it fits perfectly the rotation. Kind of “tension and release” style if you know what I mean.

I am also curios to try 10/30/30 but haven’t got there yet. But I like the idea of nailing someone down with CI and bursting him while FI is on. Doesn’t it sound fun? I think so

It says there is still more to come, though. Lets wait before panic, shall we?

I feel the same. 20/20/30/0/0 is very strong and arguably the best. It can be tweeked radically in to a PU build for example, so choosing to spread talents like this let you be flexible first of all.

But I like experimenting as I grow bored with what I run at the moment.
So, as far as lockdown I wouldn’t discard a 30/20/20 or 20/30/20. Both Domination, Dueling and Chaos trees offer a lockdown grandmaster trait. But I agree CI is probably the strongest while FI the one that would need some help.

Thank you! I didn’t know about it

When I first red Chaos about Mindcrush I remember him writing somewhere that Engis would have been a problem. I haven’t gone up so much as you in the leaderbord and from where I stand I can beat some and loose to some others so I do not see it as a build problem. As far as thieves well… they are thieves and my experience is that either you play perfect or you are doomed.

Btw, what’s sensotix build you are referring?

@MSFone
I completely agree with you. The only time torch is useful/mandatory is when running PU (not this case) or when you do not have Decoy on your utility bar. But since you have Decoy than torch is kind of redundant. Try playing without Decoy and only blink+MI as a disengage options and 2 offensive weapon sets like sw+sw/GS can be, and let me know…

As Osicat says, you should ask yourself if the build your are running will let you handling for example two thieves. At some point a necro will join in followed by a guardian. Will you be able to kill them all? If not, can your build let you escape? (PS: it’s a good question if you care about roaming, if not than many of the thing I have been writing are not so important).

I am not saying mine will, but after playing lockdown for a while (in pvp all was nice and fun) and have it tried it in wvw too and I must admit it didn’t. So, decoy wasn’t an option and thus I had to look somewhere else to put a disengage alternative. First with staff but I found it a bit meh… than with torch. And it feels just right.

FI. The 15 sec internal CD suits my build and not yours. Why? Because I have less sources of interrupts and thus it’s less possible to chain interrupt someone within 15sec window frame wasting its effect. FYI I have GS wave (AoE) and 2xMoD

My post:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/BUILD-Lockdown-and-Torch-viable/first#post3659318

@Schattenlied
Thieves are hard to nail down with an interrupt for they keep evading, but if you manage it than it’s almost over. Heavy stealth builds like PU for example are good too, that is why I wanted torch.

@Candlecan
That is pretty much what I was running with the exception of focus, portal and runes/sigils.
I love focus and I just wait for the fix on iWarden. But I wouldn’t be running it without the trait, so in the end I would go something like 0/20/30/20/0 but for now I’m busy fine tuning this new FI build.

skcamow.3527:

Interesting change in furious interruption. Even though your interrupt sources aren’t many, I could still see it working decent due to the 15s ICD on the trait. It makes MoD that much more valuable. Even though it’s just a single target interrupt, it can get you quickness which applies to all your actions. Furious interruption is also all the more valuable due to your use of 2 mantras.

Also, the on-swap sigils you have on sw/t will conflict with each other.

Thank you skcamow. I will change sigil on torch. I am debated between +power on kill or +crit on kill. What’d you say?

My interrupt sources are GS wave (aoe) and 2xMoD (single target). As you pointed, I’d say they are ok because of the FI internal cd. When I was running the build I didn’t really feel the need for another one because, while in stealth from torch, I was busy recharging mantras, healing or bursting with blurred frenzy.

Xaylin.1860:

I also switched out the Torch for a Sword. I do sometimes miss Prestige but I still get enough stealth thanks to Decoy and MI.

What would your second and third utility be?

I have gone in the opposite direction and dropped an offhand weapon with interrupt potentials (pistol/sword/focus) and picked up torch. Why? Because my utilities are all set and don’t see myself changing them. I needed a second stealth option beside MI because blink is just not enough. Also, I use mantra of distraction and resolve or disenchanter and don’t want to drop them.

Not trying to run PU with interrupts but torch allow you a slightly more laydown play style and can break up the pressure when focused (same as decoy but lower cd). It’s a perfect disengage weapon combined with good cleansing and a decent burning+blurred frenzy burst.

Just wanted to give my PoV as I recently started using torch in my lockdown build.
To finish it, I swapped CI for FI in the duelling tree. The added quickness partially make up for the loss of dps moreover it helps casting mantras or phantasms.

I am not saying is the best but overall I feel it fits me better. No CI nor CS but FI instead. Can it still be called Lockdown? I think so, yet it is different from what I have seen so far.

Needless to say that I spent the night to try the torch (with hydromancy sigil) in a lockdown build.
As expected it doesn’t have any way for interrupting (only MoD if really needed) but on the other hand it is really usefull for recharging your mantras and since I am running with two, you can imagine how handy it can be.

Overall it boosts survivability a great deal and I am 100% positive that the trade off is worth it. The dps loss is little compared to what torch can give in terms of survival and flexibility. For example MoR and traited torch guarantee that conditions will not be an issue anymore (thinking of swapping MoR for disenchanter at some point for boon removal too).

I did most of my testing in pvp and just a little in wvw, but I was able to handle various 1vsX where I either did not die while holding 3 ppl or managed to kill few 1v2. I remember well a fight with 2 necros+1 warrior. I couldn’t cap the point but I held them there enough to feel just god. Bad players? Probably, but 1v3 is never easy.

The interesting change was that I initially tried swapping CI and FI for fun in a 20/30/20/0/0 and I think that while CI helps nailing ppl down (and freaking them out too), FI not only is a dps increase but a general help by letting you cast phantasms and defensive spells alike faster, which is a godsend when you need to recharge mantras or just burst someone down.

I will defenitely keep using it for a while for I see potentialities within. I need to fully test it in wvw too but I will need some gear balance first. I wouldn’t mind submitting it to the FOTM contest (FI builds are so rare) but I foresee a lot of skepticism.

Final build (for now):
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8flwzCpnRTmGb9IiJFBnvRShp9alewbXItB-TsAg0CnIYSxkjJDTSmsMNEZJyGEA

Edit: do the choosen sigils conflict with internal cd? I know it will be removed with next patch but what about now?

skcamow.3527:

check out the WvW build in stickerhappy’s Phantasmic Interruptions thread.

I will

Done. That’s actually what I was using myself except Mental torment and gear choice slightly different. But I bet the playstyle is the same. It could be a L2P issue from my side, but this build doesn’t asnwer positively to Osicat question…

cyyrix.6105:

For an interrupt build, sacrificing the extra interrupt hurts too much. Find the extra survivability in other ways.

My interrupt build is sw/p, GS 10(II)/20(II,X)/30(V,VIII,XI)/10(IV)/0. It is pretty much the same as yours, but with mender’s purity you can forget about the torch and pick up decoy instead of MoR (I run decoy, MoD, blink).

Just keep in mind that with interrupt builds, you want to be aggressive. Interrupting key abilities (like a heal) only buys you 5 seconds before they try them again. In those precious seconds, you need to apply as much pressure as possible. The goal is to get the person down before you run out of interrupts, at which point the build suffers.

The other option is to run generosity sigils and then drop Mender’s Purity in favor of Shattered Concentration or Empowered Illusions. That also gets you the Domination master minor trait, which is nice for interrupt builds. I plan to experiment with this after the sigil cd patch.

A necro that will succesfully land a fear on you (followed by 3-4 other conditions) will laugh at mender’s purity, disenchanter (if not casted yet) and AT since all your skills will not be useful for few secs. and your health will be drained to death.
The beauty of MoR is that it will let you cleans anything at any time you wish, ever, as long as it’s charged.

What I wanted to accompish by using torch is having a break, especially when 1vsXYZ, sort of what you do when using PU… same type of fight style which is not possible without abusing on stealth (MI and blink is often not enough)

As Osicat says in a different post “you should ask yourself if the build you are running will let you win or escape a fight if 1-2 thieves are pounding on you hard, a necro and a guardian joins in… and so on”. If you are a roamer all this matter and your build of choice should help you accomplish that.

I do not know if the trade off from pistol/torch will buy me more time and help winning/escaping when facing multiple opponents but using only aggressive style (and 0 ways to mitigate the pressure) will only work in 1v1 or uplevel enemies. It is proven by the hundreds of videos from well known players where all of them have mutliple ways for stealthing. As I said MI and blink are often not enough.

I haven’t tested it yet and I could be completely wrong but in a way I was expecting an answer like yours

In the past couple of months I have been running many build variations which use Chaotic Interruption. I just love the trait and the lockdown concept. They all provided a lot of fun but all of them felt short at something.

However, since I am a lonely wolf and realize the strength of a PU based build and all the goods it does when roaming (but don’t want to run PU), I have tried to incorporate CI in what a power PU build would look like (namely a 20/20/30 Osicat PU power build, for example).

But of course CI and PU cannot co-exist.

So, by swapping the two grandmaster traits and making little adjustments, this is what it looks like:

Dom 20: II, IX
Duel 20: IV, X
Chaos 30 : V, VIII, XI

Weapons : GS, S+T (battle+battle+Perception)

Utilities : Ether, Mantra of Resolve, Mantra of Distraction, Blink, MI

Gear: A mix of Berserker, Knight, Cav. + Travelers

Food: +20% boon duration or +40% cond duration or +power or crit depending on personal taste

This is essentially what I was running, with the exception of pistol (or sword) instead of torch and shattered concentration instead of torch trait. Less burst but better at disengaging and cleansing.

I would like to accomplish a decent lockdown play style and gaining a bit more survivability which torch gives. The other trade off I was thinking of is to keep my previous weapons setup and have decoy replacing one of the three utilities but 1) MoR or any other cleansing utility is needed 2) if I want a lockdown style I see MoD to be mandatory 3) will it help survival if I swap blink for decoy?

How do you see it?

Supcutie.2538:

Most promise: Shatter with S/T, Shatter with Staff/GS, Shatter with Confounding Suggestions and 20 inspiration w/ heal mantra, Phantasm can work if you’re not focusing on team fights, but it can get overwhelmed easily.

Sorry, just to make sure we are talking about the same thing. By shatter do you mean IP – 30pts in Illusions tree as starting point for any builds you mentioned?

If so, it means shatter and its variations seem to be the only viable playstyle in tpvp which is the contrary of what people say about wvw (at least this is what I read on the forum) which I find it kind of amusing.

Unfortunately I can’t add anything from my own experience since I only do solo queu and not organized pvp.

Carighan.6758:

who’d love to see the toxicity of champ trains worked on, champion loot in general, boss design, downscaling, upscaling for WvW, crafting, those things.

I come from a small group of friends who emigrated from UO to EQ2 to WoW and finally to GW2. After the initial levelling up to 80 and some time discovering the game I am the only one left because I’m the only one adicted to pvp. All others left the game because they found those things you mentioned important to their play style and didn’t like the way they are implemented. So you are 100% right.

As far as voting I underlined how Mesmer needs many bugs fixed (especially iWarden) but my list is Ranger, Ele, Mesmer

I also gave a nerf list which is wars, thieves, engi
And that’s ofc based on my personal experience.