Guild Wars 2

Obtena.7952:

If runes aren’t supposed to be mixed and matched … why does the rune concept have a design that allows mixing and matching? Assuming that runes shouldn’t be mixed and matched is a VERY poor assumption. The game design ENCOURAGES it.

I also think Anet’s reasoning ‘to make it easy’ is silly as well. Were runes that hard to figure out? I didn’t think so. I’m pleased they see the issue with the poor scaling for using all 6 runes. I am NOT pleased that they felt it necessary to also nerf some of the level 2/4 effects to drive players towards easier choices. I’m a big boy. If I can figure out runes and get some cool effects by mixing; I shouldn’t be penalized for it because some halfwit can’t figure out runes.

ON topic, Boon duration buffs are currently silly. Anet is pretty keen on making it very difficult to have 100% uptimes on certain effects (which is why I anticipate a nerf to hammer #1 at some point).

It does allow mix n matching; however the idea is the more runes you stack, the more powerful effects you get. If they intended everything can be mix n match’d, why bother making the stack effect bonuses at all? If they did intend it, every rune would be similar to Rune of Divinity, where the 6 effect bonuses are equal. That rune is unique because it has non min-maxing attributes.

This only happens to 3 (4 if you count major Rune of Sanctuary, Anet “balanced” its superior version) runes. It’s a minor design flaw, so you can’t say the game design encourages it. It just so happens that the flaw can be used positively by players.

Now that a lot of people are attached to it, they get upset when Anet wants to fix the design.

Mightymealworm.8409:

Radiance: Radiant Retaliation – Retaliation Damage scales from condition damage instead of power.

I can see this being very potent in wvw if the scaling truly is much stronger. And it would have to be much much stronger to make it worth being a trait at all let alone a grand-master trait. We have plenty of uses for power, and almost no use for condition damage, so this would be a very specialized build type that relies on retaliation and burning. I almost want to try it with Kindled Zeal but, if I am relying on condi and especially retaliation, I want to focus on toughness and vit, not power. That said a few special purpose Radiant Retaliation spamming guardians in a zerg could be interesting.

In case you didn’t know, Retaliation is the most nerfed boon, especially in WvW. First the damage is cut by 33%, and you can stack its duration only up to 5. The mechanics is pretty dumb: stacking mechanics.

I have 2500 Power, and that’s probably the highest number you can get by stacking Condition Damage. The damage is only around 250 in WvW.

blakdoxa.7520:

xFireize.6318:

It’s not a nerf, but it’s something that they should have have designed in the first place. Runes are not supposed to be mix and match’d. 15% boon duration for (2) is simply too much.

Boon duration is not consistent, just like critical damage.

Runes were mixed in the first place because the set’s effects were absolutely atrocious. When we want efficiency we gotta play give or take.
I’d rather give up a complete rune set that garbage for my spec and take the two runes I need from that set and this set to max my boon duration.

See? Anet was too cautious of complete rune sets they became WAY underpowered. The next best thing was to mix and match to minimize your “losses” over not taking a full set.

You don’t have to state the obvious.

Like I said, 15% boon duration is too much for second bonus. Other runes’ second bonuses only give 15%-20% duration to a single type of boon.

Why does Giver’s armor only have +1% boon duration per piece?

Why are those runes are nerfed in sPvP?

Why is there an anomaly on Rune of Sanctuary?

All because they designed those runes terribly. Then after they realized that players can mix n match runes to get up to +45% boon duration, they “balanced” other crap so they are now inconsistent; instead of actually fixing the runes. They probably did not want to deal with upset players who already got used to the mix n match runes. I’m glad now they have the balls to do it. Hopefully they’ll design something consistent this time.

It’s not a nerf, but it’s something that they should have have designed in the first place. Runes are not supposed to be mix and match’d. 15% boon duration for (2) is simply too much.

Boon duration is not consistent, just like critical damage.

What do people think about Radiant Retaliation?

Power has 916 base attribute. Is the retaliation scale going to base 0 Condition Damage as if it was 916? If it’s not it seems kinda lame.

Hunter.4783:

Cogbyrn.7283:

xFireize.6318:

I asked you this on your other thread; how many VIT do you think the trait should have so it can be categorized as grandmaster trait?

I’m waiting with bated breath for the inevitable bombastic number

You are missing the point. No amount of vit justifies such a lame kitten grandmaster trait. Not to mention that PoV will always be better.

I don’t think he is missing the point. Neither was I, hence I asked that question. You just don’t appreciate VIT so no matter the amount of VIT the trait gives will never satisfy you. With that answer, I can confirm that you are just expecting something better than PoV so you can replace it.

Jerus.4350:

I don’t see how this could fit into a complete build really.

Anyone have ideas yet?

3k hp is nice, but it’s about the complete picture.

I see people saying they use full honor tree without shouts… what are you doing then?

I’m just curious, some are saying they see it as something really good, what are you seeing that the rest of us aren’t? What is the build and direction you see it going?

Everything I can think of by simply going through the honor tree will solve the issues where guardian needs more health /shrug.

I would use it on a ~/5/30/30/5 berserker/knights med guardian. I love two-handed mastery and the useful dodge, so I always try to invest on Honor 20. Currently that build doesn’t have a reason to go beyond 25.

Hunter.4783:

xFireize.6318:

Dafuk.. You created two threads with the same crap. It seems the OP is a PvE player who doesn’t appreciate VIT. You should try frontlining, OP. Swimming in an enemy zerg is fun.

Anyway, I don’t think a VIT boost trait belongs to Zeal nor Radiance. Honor seems the correct line IMO. I know that the DPS guardian needs a boost on defensive aspect; but putting a vit boost to offensive trait line is not a solution.

You don’t boost a class defence with raw passive HP GRANDMASTER traits. After a certain point the HP pool becomes meaningless, and ye, that’s the case even in wvw. Guard buff + 1/2 PTV gear = more HP than you need.

And its funny because a the standard wvw zerg guard is shout based, and guess which trait you have to take for the grandmaster honor line? (hint: its PoV)

That’s the point. With 300 VIT, now you don’t even have to invest on 1/2 PVT Gear. Did I mention shout build should use it? Maybe you should read my post on your other thread that has the same whiny crap. People who use shout but expect to be able to replace PoV with a new trait, are just dreaming for a new stronger trait.

I asked you this on your other thread; how many VIT do you think the trait should have so it can be categorized as grandmaster trait?

Talyn.3295:

xFireize.6318:

Dafuk.. You created two threads with the same crap. It seems the OP is a PvE player who doesn’t appreciate VIT. You should try frontlining, OP. Swimming in an enemy zerg is fun.

Anyway, I don’t think a VIT boost trait belongs to Zeal nor Radiance. Honor seems the correct line IMO. I know that the DPS guardian needs a boost on defensive aspect; but putting a vit boost to offensive trait line is not a solution.

I go zerg swimming all the time. Never had a problem that required more Vit, maybe I am just that good.

I don’t doubt that you are good. I don’t disagree that with enough self-heal, VIT becomes less significant. I too, found the VIT cap on my build. However, I still believe VIT is most valuable to guardian than to any other classes.

But to each his own. I just love bombing enemy zerg’s bomb much more than rolling away from it. It’s an opportunity for AoE damage, Interrupt, and Retaliation spread. And that’s why I love VIT.

Just like swimming, you need to breathe and in this case; to group up with your zerg to heal up and buff up after getting bombed. I prefer being under the water longer with VIT.

Dafuk.. You created two threads with the same crap. It seems the OP is a PvE player who doesn’t appreciate VIT. You should try frontlining, OP. Swimming in an enemy zerg is fun.

Anyway, I don’t think a VIT boost trait belongs to Zeal nor Radiance. Honor seems the correct line IMO. I know that the DPS guardian needs a boost on defensive aspect; but putting a vit boost to offensive trait line is not a solution.

Hunter.4783:

xFireize.6318:

I admit I’d still prefer PoV on my shout build, but 300 vitality is not nothing, especially for guardian. To me, this opens opportunities to reduce VIT on armor, and choose better DPS. ~/~/30/30/~ med guards will probably appreciate it.

Don’t be dumb. 300 VIT is too strong for an adept.

I’m not saying the trait is super exciting; but it’s still something. I’m just sick seeing a lot of guardians exaggerate and whine about how 300 VIT is nothing. I personally love Applied Fortitude. Do you even frontline brah?

PVE, guards survive with 10k health

You are failing to realize that this trait is competing with Pure of Voice and battle presence, the former being one of the best traits we have. No one in their right mind would take this new trait over the 2 old ones.

I agree that guardian can survive in PvE with 10k.; but in case you haven’t noticed, a lot of things are less viable in PvE; especially the defensive aspect of guardian. A lot of these things are very viable on WvW however.

The trait is not supposed to be for everyone. It’s not for my main shout build. Maybe it’s not for you either.

If I ran shout build, ofc I’d still pick PoV. If I ran Healing Point build and in a party, ofc I would take Battle Presence. But what if I didn’t run either but still would like to invest on VIT? If you are running a build that I mentioned above, but expect something to replace PoV or BP, that means you just want a way stronger trait.

The point of adding new traits is to open more diverse builds; not to create new traits that will replace the old ones.

300 VIT seems a reasonable amount to compete in grandmaster. What amount of VIT do you think it should be to deserve to be in grandmaster slot?

I admit I’d still prefer PoV on my shout build, but 300 vitality is not nothing, especially for guardian. To me, this opens opportunities to reduce VIT on armor, and choose better DPS. ~/~/30/30/~ med guards will probably appreciate it.

Don’t be dumb. 300 VIT is too strong for an adept.

I’m not saying the trait is super exciting; but it’s still something. I’m just sick seeing a lot of guardians exaggerate and whine about how 300 VIT is nothing. I personally love Applied Fortitude. Do you even frontline brah?

Well when you invest in two different things, you should expect them to stack. If they don’t stack, I would question the logic behind the mechanics of this game.

Explain the trait?

You are not doing anything wrong. Enemies in PvE do get pushed back by WW, but players don’t. I believe that’s the whole point of this trick; to be used in WvW or sPvP.

I use it on my 0/15/30/20/5. I love my Signet of Resolve traited, might as well use another signet. “Hold the Line!”, “Stand Your Ground!”, and Signet of Judgment are great oh crap buttons. It’s a good replacement for “Save Yourself!” if you run in a zerg and don’t want to risk absorbing too many conditions.

Kreen.3925:

xFireize.6318:

Kreen.3925:

xFireize.6318:

Either way, for that strong effect, anything below 90 seconds is too low.

At 45 seconds yes its quite powerful. Its basically a combination of

1. Guardian Save Yourselves – but you get stability and aegis as well but only for 5 seconds of all boons duration compared to the default of 10 secs for SY
2. Active piece of Warrior Signet of Stamina – clear all conditions.

SY can be traited down to 48 seconds and SoS traited to 36 seconds so for classes with short elites (warrior, thief and necro) the Lyssa rune 6 is rather nice

The problem here is the rune 6 benefit is not available to all classes equally since it fires of elites and elite CD’s are messed up due to balancing the vastly different benefits of them across classes. One easy way to fix this would be to give every class a short, medium and long elite choice, 45-60, 90-120 and 180+. That way you can choose to take the short one and trade off. Of course for balance, the current elites would need to be adjusted. Another way would be to change the trigger for rune 6 to something else. Or course they could wield the nerf hammer and derate the lyssa rune 6 bonus…

This is not just an issue with Lyssa, there are a couple rune sets that trigger off elites as well but just not as good.

Why would you think giving every class a short, medium, and long elite skills would be an easy fix? You think that Anet would just poop out new elite skills and/or balance the current ones just for Rune of Lyssa?

You know what would be easier? Increasing the cooldown, based on the effect. Like I mentioned above, 45 seconds is just too low; making the effect feels like an additional hidden utility skill. Heck, lyssa’s effect is even better than all of those utility skills you and I mentioned above.

That idea is basically the same as how Anet “fixed” rune of sanctuary to have +20% chill duration. "Oh something is not balanced! Let’s “balance” other stuff instead of fixing the actual problem."

Ok, easy was the wrong choice of words. I agree with you,. The “quick and easy” fix is to change the Lyssa rune 6 CD. My other suggestion is alot more work for Anet for sure.

I don’t think anyone here thinks Anet can just poop out a pile of elites. If thats the tone you want to carry on with in this discussion then I guess I am done. Although I can see why you said that given my poor choice of the word easy.

In my opinion, the elegant change would be to align the elite skills better as I suggested if Anet want to retain things that trigger off elites, I would argue that that is the actual problem and hence you end up with class imbalances due to some other feature like a rune 6 bonus not being available for all classes at a similar frequency. I am not suggesting they make that change just to fix lyssa only. There are other things that trigger off elites as well and who knows maybe they want to expand that feature. Ultimately its up to Anet how they choose to do stuff, hopefully they have a plan here and will make decisions as they see fit and I hope they will not always take the quick and easy way because that can lead to other issues. Sure for some things its the right approach.

Lyssa’s effect is better than the utility skills I mentioned because it does both of them for 1 push of a button and for thief, necro and warrior you get it between 45 and 60sec CD.

The sanctuary change you mention is an odd one really because if that extra 15% boon duration was such a problem why did they introduce another rune set later that gives it? For me, Sanctuary 20% chill seems like anomaly now given that. Is that the change you mean?

Correct. When Rune of Traveler did not have the same effect that they have now, Anet mentioned that the anomaly is an intended effect to avoid people stacking 3 different runes to get +45% boon duration effect. Instead of reducing +15% boon duration for second bonus of the related runes, they instead break rune of sanctuary to make it “balanced”.

Then this created another problem: Giver’s armor being completely worthless by having extremely low +% of boon duration. I haven’t found any official response about this, but I am sure it is related too how +% boon duration ratio is very high on runes.

Now you know where my frustration came from. I apologize if my tone was too harsh. I really don’t want to give Anet a single idea that fixing other stuff will fix the actual problem. That’s why I mentioned on an earlier post, if there’s something wrong with the thief builds, bring it up to the thief section.

Kreen.3925:

xFireize.6318:

Either way, for that strong effect, anything below 90 seconds is too low.

At 45 seconds yes its quite powerful. Its basically a combination of

1. Guardian Save Yourselves – but you get stability and aegis as well but only for 5 seconds of all boons duration compared to the default of 10 secs for SY
2. Active piece of Warrior Signet of Stamina – clear all conditions.

SY can be traited down to 48 seconds and SoS traited to 36 seconds so for classes with short elites (warrior, thief and necro) the Lyssa rune 6 is rather nice

The problem here is the rune 6 benefit is not available to all classes equally since it fires of elites and elite CD’s are messed up due to balancing the vastly different benefits of them across classes. One easy way to fix this would be to give every class a short, medium and long elite choice, 45-60, 90-120 and 180+. That way you can choose to take the short one and trade off. Of course for balance, the current elites would need to be adjusted. Another way would be to change the trigger for rune 6 to something else. Or course they could wield the nerf hammer and derate the lyssa rune 6 bonus…

This is not just an issue with Lyssa, there are a couple rune sets that trigger off elites as well but just not as good.

Why would you think giving every class a short, medium, and long elite skills would be an easy fix? You think that Anet would just poop out new elite skills and/or balance the current ones just for Rune of Lyssa?

You know what would be easier? Increasing the cooldown, based on the effect. Like I mentioned above, 45 seconds is just too low; making the effect feels like an additional hidden utility skill. Heck, lyssa’s effect is even better than all of those utility skills you and I mentioned above.

That idea is basically the same as how Anet “fixed” rune of sanctuary to have +20% chill duration. "Oh something is not balanced! Let’s “balance” other stuff instead of fixing the actual problem."

Either way, for that strong effect, anything below 90 seconds is too low.

Silhouette.5631:

This same issue appears on many of the “On heal” rune effects. the runes are willing to proc every 10 seconds while only a few classes have heals that short of a CD, while others such as signet of resolve have a 40 second CD. This dissuades classes with higher CD’s from using these sorts of runes.

Agreed. None of those effects as powerful as runes of lyssa tho.

NinjaEd.3946:

Many thief builds heavily rely on lyssa runes. Between withdraw and BV it makes up for our lack of boons, and it also gives us something we don’t normally have, stability. Sure you can use Dagger storm and dodge roll out of it but that’s a 90 second cooldown for roughly 8 seconds, vs 5 seconds every 45 seconds. Also the added precision ties in nicely, and thief generally lacks effective condi clear when it’s poured on them like gravy. There is no need to touch lyssa runes unless we were given the necessary tools to move outside of it comfortably. I don’t only run lyssa runes but gosh do I miss it when I swap it out.

The problem is not thief build or whatever, but it’s how the rune affects each class differently, merely by the cooldown of the elites. Cooldown is set based on how powerful the skill is. The more powerful the skill, the longer the cooldown. Rune of Lyssa’s low cooldown ruins this rule.

I only play Guardian, so I compare rune of lyssa 6th effect to these skills: “Save Yourself!” and Contemplation of Purity. You can judge it yourself, whether the effect is like an additional utility skill or not if it’s usable every 45 second.

The fact that some thief builds can rely on the effect, is because of their elite cooldowns. If my guardian had an elite skill that has 45 second cooldown and I don’t pick any other skills/traits that remove conditions to improve other stats such as damage, I too can say I rely on runes of lyssa. But should it be like that? No.

Do elite cooldowns have anything to do with thief or any other classes builds? No. If there’s something wrong with thief builds, bring it up to a thief thread. You wrote it yourself, that you prefer Basilisk Venom than Dagger Storm just because the cooldown is less than half.

I suggest play around with Soldier armor+weapon and mixed “Of the Knights” & berserker’s ascended trinkets using the calculator. If you are already confident and comfortable with guardian’s defensive playstyle, pick more berserker’s trinkets. You might wanna wait for the berserker’s ferocity patch though, so you can be sure whether if you want to invest on berserker’s trinkets.

Carpboy.7145:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fgw2skills.net%2Feditor%2F%3FfUAQRArd8elUgSDHHyNEf4Eh1DAeQ%2FVVIeXPgYEbIA-jUCBYfDim%2BIwEIRM1UQM3UZtYqIas6aYKXAqYLqWGA9xA-w

Not helpful; totally different playstyle.

Rune of Lyssa is one of the runes that I hope they would fix in the next balance patch; along with bonus (2) boon duration runes and some other dumb runes like rune of sanctuary. I’m hoping they would check each rune and be like “Who the F designed these?”.

Tarsius.3170:

xFireize.6318:

Tarsius.3170:

xFireize.6318:

Thanks, Tarsius.

Q21 If I have Pure of Voice traited with Runes of the Soldier and use “Save Yourselves!” in what order do these remove and convert conditions.

1. “Save Yourselves!” will always trigger first, stripping conditions from Allies in range and stacking them on yourself. Allies will not get the benefit of boon conversion from Pure of Voice.
2. The 6th Soldier Rune will then remove a condition (see note) from yourself and Allies.
3. Finally Pure of Voice which will remove another condition from yourself and allies and grant a corresponding boon to the players that were cured..

Can I ask why you wrote “and allies” (bold-ed)? Wiki mentions that PoV triggers first. If you’re correct, then this disappoints me even more.

The conditions removal/conversion applies to all allies affected by the shout. In anet terminology “Allies” means up to 5 people including yourself who are in range of the skill, in the following priority: Party Member, Party Member Pet, Other Allies, Other Allies’ Pets and NPCs

I understand that. But in “Save Yourself!” case, these affected allies will not get any further benefits from PoV + Soldier runes. Am I missing something?

I was trying to highlight the order things occur rather than whether on not players receive any actual benefits ( I guess it could be clearer ) – bear in mind that in a dynamic battlefield people can move in and out of your shout range priority from one skill to the next, as well as have conditions re-applied – in which case you would still see some positive effects from PoV and Soldier runes.

To answer you earlier comment about the wiki saying PoV triggered first – originally the FAQ made the same statement, but someone here spotted that was incorrect which I confirmed through testing in the mists. ( it may have been a stealth change from a patch )

Does that ever happen? Even tho PoV and Soldier runes are triggered after “SY!”, I would think they are still instant. Are you saying it’s possible for my allies get a condition in the moment between “SY!” and PoV + Soldier runes?

This is all bad news to me, but I appreciate the clarifications.

ArchonWing.9480:

Yes, I mistakenly thought that in this scenario that every ally would have all their conditions converted to boons. You can scratch that point.

Though, I never said you were whining. That’s my job, but you are free to restrict the topic to such. I think it’s more of a fundamental design issue, in that I think that PoV is weak and SY is fine.

Oh lol no no. I would agree as well that “SY!” would be absurdly overpowered if that’s the case.

I apologize if I sounded harsh. I’m kinda cynical because I’ve seen many guardian threads got out of hand because one person started whining. It triggers a swarm of absurd buffs suggestions.

ArchonWing.9480:

Save yourselves would be absurdly overpowered if it stacked with POV. 5 people getting boons immediately and condition clear? At least the necro Well of Power pulses and you have to stand in it.

However, Pure of Voice is a pretty bad trait and needs a buff. The only reason it was popular in the first place is that it removed two conditions and sorta worked. When it got “fixed”, it became the mediocre trait it is now. It doesn’t help that honor 25 is also pretty bad so it’s not like the journey to it is worth it.

I mean think about it. Even if you’re full shout traited, you’re burning all your cooldowns to remove 3 conditions. Every cooldown. That’s pretty awful and it quickly died in PvE. Adding some boons does not cancel it out if you still have confusion or Immobo on you. There’s soldier runes, but they’re irrelevant because they work without POV. Soldier-less POV is bad because a trait that requires a runeset is bad, and Anet should feel bad for making this happen.

But it’s taken by many outside of PvE because the only other good choice is Absolute Resolution and going down that line you can also take the somewhat acceptable Purging Flames for good condition removal if you do it in conjunction with Renewed Focus. But it’s pretty static and you have to make concessions elsewhere (typically greatly reducing your health… Of course most people can’t let go of their AH because zerg hammer trains are best. So that leaves us with 0/0/10/30/30 having great condition removal.

I’m not whining that PoV is weak nor asking for a buff.
Let’s not get off topic.

I’m just disappointed that PoV + Soldier Runes are less rewarding for “Save Yourself!”.

How is “5 people getting boons immediately and condition clear” absurdly overpowered? It’s just one extra boon for each ally, every 48s. You can’t even fully control what boon your allies are getting.

The change that I would like to see is on the user, that PoV + Soldier runes would remove 2 conditions from allies before transferring the rest to you, making “SY!” less dangerous. I’m not a big fan of “Save Yourself!”, since in a huge WvW situation it sounds more like “Save Yourself, I’ll Kill Myself!”.

This change is way more significant than “5 people getting boons immediately and condition clear”, and I can understand if some people think it can be overpowered. I’m open to suggestions, but leaving PoV + Soldier runes to have no effects on allies for “SY!” is disappointing.

Tarsius.3170:

xFireize.6318:

Thanks, Tarsius.

Q21 If I have Pure of Voice traited with Runes of the Soldier and use “Save Yourselves!” in what order do these remove and convert conditions.

1. “Save Yourselves!” will always trigger first, stripping conditions from Allies in range and stacking them on yourself. Allies will not get the benefit of boon conversion from Pure of Voice.
2. The 6th Soldier Rune will then remove a condition (see note) from yourself and Allies.
3. Finally Pure of Voice which will remove another condition from yourself and allies and grant a corresponding boon to the players that were cured..

Can I ask why you wrote “and allies” (bold-ed)? Wiki mentions that PoV triggers first. If you’re correct, then this disappoints me even more.

The conditions removal/conversion applies to all allies affected by the shout. In anet terminology “Allies” means up to 5 people including yourself who are in range of the skill, in the following priority: Party Member, Party Member Pet, Other Allies, Other Allies’ Pets and NPCs

I understand that. But in “Save Yourself!” case, these affected allies will not get any further benefits from PoV + Soldier runes. Am I missing something?

Thanks, Tarsius.

Q21 If I have Pure of Voice traited with Runes of the Soldier and use “Save Yourselves!” in what order do these remove and convert conditions.

1. “Save Yourselves!” will always trigger first, stripping conditions from Allies in range and stacking them on yourself. Allies will not get the benefit of boon conversion from Pure of Voice.
2. The 6th Soldier Rune will then remove a condition (see note) from yourself and Allies.
3. Finally Pure of Voice which will remove another condition from yourself and allies and grant a corresponding boon to the players that were cured..

Can I ask why you wrote “and allies” (bold-ed)? Wiki mentions that PoV triggers first. If you’re correct, then this disappoints me even more.

I abandoned this couple last year and moved on to another build that better suited for my play style. I did not pay attention to this matter back then. Now that I do small roaming with 4 other party members, I would think PoV would be very helpful since conditions tend to hurt small group more than a zerg.

According to wiki, “Save Yourself!” absorbs the conditions from allies to you, then PoV triggers after it. That means PoV and Soldier runes have no effects on allies if you use “Save Yourself!”. Is this correct? I kinda don’t want to believe this since it seems really lame. I would think that PoV and Soldier Runes would help reduce the amount of conditions you absorb, making “SY!” less dangerous. At least give allies the converted boons.

I can’t test/observe this tonight since guildmates already went to bed.

Seriously… I feel the more I learn about GW2 mechanics, the more likely I am to get disappointed. Hopefully the next balance patch will make me feel better about this game.

If you see toughness from the point of percentage of damage mitigation view, it does get worse. But if you see it from your overall Effective HP, it goes up linearly (just like Vitality). If toughness percentage of damage mitigation went up linearly, your Effective HP would go up exponentially.

Dahkeus.8243:

Yea, there are a lot of useless skills/traits, just as with any class…

But some of the skills/traits the OP listed makes me wonder how long they’ve been playing the class. Have you never played a PvP DPS meditation build? Tournament players like Itty Bitty Bunker have been making good use of meditations for a good while.

Also, you’re knocking Resolute Healer? Have you ever played a bunker in PvP? This trait is so clutch in so many games because of the knockback. I’ve prevented stomps and pulled off rezes so many times because of this trait. Yes, the mesmer ability is nice for PvE, but this one is incredibly clutch for PvP.

You should read the first paragraph again. We’re already over that on the first page.

Well, the initial design was that Spirit Weapons won’t be damaged by direct attack. This was the reason why they start the cooldowns after they disappear, unlike Ranger’s Spirits and Necro’s Minion (CMIIW on necro). And of course they didn’t give a crap about that coz they just wanted people to stop exploiting.

I don’t mind the cooldowns and refresh them every 20-30 seconds, as long as they don’t die prematurely.

Boon duration is as dumb as the current crit damage. The stat is not consistent. The reason behind it is probably because of the dumb rune stacking to get easy 45% boon duration. They badly designed those runes, so why not ruin another so things get “balanced”. Giver’s is a worse case version of this.

Aren’t Spirit Weapons not too bad for PvP? For WvW zerg it is inefficient , but when I tried it recently for 1v1, they are doing okay. I don’t do PvP.

CptAurellian.9537:

xFireize.6318:

Someone posted this ~5 hours ago and got deleted.

There were at least two threads here, as well as a bunch on the other class forums.

For the changes … well, nothing I’d care about. Torch stays useless unless they massively increase #5’s DPS, Zeal is not worth going into for more than II and VII and EM might become a funny gimmick, but nothing else. 5 seconds duration and 240 radius aren’t worth 20 points in Honor, unfortunately.

I agree. 240 is not enough for pugs. Don’t be one though.

I’ve seen guardians take 30 in Honor to get EM and Two-handed Mastery. Sure the trait itself looks pretty weak. However with AH, the self-heal is crazy. But of course, you don’t use AH.

Someone posted this ~5 hours ago and got deleted.

Mikau.6920:

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I agree Mace and Shield set is far from the best, offensive wise. That is the reason I pair it with GS. As a second set, it gives soooo much self-heal. Cripple on#3 would be nice tho, but I doubt they will add that haha.

Lucente.5071:

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So you wanted #4 to block melee and #5 to give Protection AND block projectiles? Yikes. -_-

It’s viable for me with +5% boon duration and 200 healing point. Adding some CC or Condition to shield would be nice, but defensive wise, they already do a fine job.

I found traited SoR is more rewarding than Shelter if you already can sustain your HP well without a healing skill. If you’re having trouble saying alive while swimming in an enemy zerg, than yeah I agree Shelter would be useful, but definitely not “infinitely”. When you don’t need to use it, it gives a small reward but when you actually need heal after getting burst-ed, you can rely on the big heal it gives.

Lucente.5071:

Shorter base cooldowns by 2-4 secs to be balanced well with the mastery. Remove the 4 skill and replace it with a block skill like engi and warrior. Guard is the only class that can use a shield that doesnt have a block. Combine 4 and 5 skill together. Done.

And get rid of the only on-demand Protection weapon skill in the game? No, thank you. I prefer 5s party Protection than a channeling 3s blocks. We have a shelter for that. And hello, #5 blocks.

Honorable Shield. As a person who uses shield and always gets cooldown reduction traits for everything, I say shield cooldowns are not a problem.

Regeneration for #4 is probably too much, considering #4 is the only weapon skill in the game that gives on-demand Protection. Might won’t be too bad, but I think if a condition such as torment added to it, it’d be better. A quick daze would also be nice.

I’m not sure 8 seconds for #5 would be useful at all honestly.

Mikau.6920:

PLEASE READ

You are silly. The devs don’t read the Guardian forums. Sadly.

Also if (I said if) they play Guardian on WvW/PvP, they only use GS/Sword/Staff builds. None of them use mace, shield or torch.

I use Mace & Shield as my secondary set along with GS as primary. I dropped Staff (as a healing weapon) for them, and it was one of the best decision I’ve made in my build. I did not even hesitate to make ascended Mace & Shield shortly after giving the set a try.

When Sword of Justice pops out, the additional blue fire effect is not on the location where the sword pops out. The other Spirit Weapons don’t have this bug.

The funny thing is that I noticed it more than a year ago, but I guess no one ever submitted it? Now that it is submitted, does Anet care?

EDIT: After looking closer at the other Spirit Weapons, it seems that Hammer of Wisdom and Bow of Truth don’t even have this effect. The effect is only working properly on the Shield of the Avenger. So I guess this is not only a bug, but unfinished work?

I enjoy Spirit Weapons in PvE. However, they seem to rely heavily on the traits (at least 4 of them, excluding A Fire Inside trait). Without those traits SWs feel to be an extremely boring set of guardian skills.

The SWs commands are useful and strong, but without Eternal Spirit trait, it makes you hesitate to use them since you have no idea when your SW is gonna expire and you don’t want to use the command too soon. This annoying hesitation is what drove me away from using the commands at all.

I hate the fact that Improved Spirit-Weapon Duration is in the Virtues line. The trait line focuses on boon duration and Virtues, why would a very useful SW trait located there?

My opinion on how many essential traits other Guardian skills have (IMO CD reduction is essential):

• Consecration: 2 direct traits. 1 is essential.
• Meditation: 3 direct traits. All of them are essential. Litany of Wrath serves as a plus because it’s affected by these.
• Shout: 2 direct traits. 1 is essential.
• Signet: 3 direct traits. 1 is essential. Signet of Resolve is a plus.
• Spirit Weapon: 5 direct traits, 4 is essential. < Too many and ridiculous

My suggestion:
Make SWs commands don’t destroy the weapon itself as default. Increase the their cooldown to twice as much as what they have now. This way SW commands can be used twice for Sword of Justice and once for the rest of SWs.

Remove Eternal Spirit and Improved Spirit-Weapon Duration trait and create a new one to replace Eternal Spirit (Zeal – Master – Major).

New Trait:
Increase Spirit Weapons duration by 50%, and reduce its command skill cooldown by 50%

Spirit Weapons are a unique Guardian skill set. Let’s make them attractive again!

For the male one, the clothes on the shoulder and head armor are stiff. They don’t have the cloth physics like the female ones have. To check this, use a makeover kit and spin your character around. I’m too lazy to post a picture, but this should be straight-forward.

I was told by a guildmate about this a week ago or something. When I heard it, I knew it was fake and did not even bother go to the source. I was like “Huh.. Anet can’t be that dumb.”

Trice.4598:

xFireize.6318:

Tons of protection, tons of regen, tons of dodge rolls, tons of healing. Try playing bunker and you’ll understand how tanky a guardian can be. Like styx.7294 said, it would be bad for the balance, since the bunker build will be super duper tanky.

DPS guardian sacrifices too much of its tankiness that IMO, not worth it. You can observe this chart made by fadeaway.2807: http://s27.postimg.org/nf571pco3/guarddps.jpg

If we go DPS, our HP pool is so low that 1 mistake will most likely kill you. When you go Tank, you have no condition to back you up and your damage output is ridiculously low. I do agree that a 3000-4000 HP boost would be welcome.

Was I not being clear? I agree DPS guardian is too weak and some HP boost would help the build. But extra 3k-4k HP boost is not the solution because it would make bunker guardian to be too strong. Think about it like having almost twice of the Applied Fortitude buff. Do you not feel Applied Fortitude buff significant to your guardian?

Tanky guardian can actually deal decent DPS, depending on your traits. By tanky, I don’t mean full Soldier. Just use some mix offense/defense armor and trinkets and you’ll be tanky enough.

Tons of protection, tons of regen, tons of dodge rolls, tons of healing. Try playing bunker and you’ll understand how tanky a guardian can be. Like styx.7294 said, it would be bad for the balance, since the bunker build will be super duper tanky.

DPS guardian sacrifices too much of its tankiness that IMO, not worth it. You can observe this chart made by fadeaway.2807: http://s27.postimg.org/nf571pco3/guarddps.jpg

It’s probably not your style. It doesn’t mean it’s broken tho. I enjoy having GS as my main weapon, even after thousands of WvW hours.

Karl McLain.5604:

after the first Living World season ends.

Is there a date for this or estimation when it ends? Some of us don’t care enough to follow the Living World.

It worked fine for me. It’s just a different way to use heal. It’s just kinda meh since you don’t wanna use it if you aren’t traited for meditation.

Evalia.7103:

Well, that means full Sentinel’s is a bad idea. But so is full Cleric’s?

IMO, “Full {{ insert item nomenclature here }}” is a bad idea for WvW guardian.

I use Sentinel armor on my current exotic armor set and ascended weapon set. IMO If you prioritize tankiness over DPS, it’s worth it. We have low base HP pool so Vit becomes more valuable. I personally like it.

However, I’m planning to get Soldier instead for my ascended armor (still in working progress). The reason is because with Applied Fortitude buff, I feel my vitality is more than enough. Too much tankiness is rather useless, since there is no such a thing as too much DPS.

I’m not a fan of full cleric set, so I can’t talk about it.

I always use -40% condition duration on my guardian in WvW. Combined with -20% condition duration runes (Melandru, Hoelbrak, etc), the effect is very significant; at least for guardian that has low base HP pool. I don’t mind if it gets nerfed, as long as there’s some adjustment to HP pool.