Guild Wars 2

Fade.7658:

I haven’t experienced any issues losing stacks using a WP in the same zone, but I found that unless you have the same stacking sigil on one of your underwater weapons, you lose the stack.

Underwater weapons are now considered their own weapon sets, totally separate from surface weapons, so you’ll need to re-purchase whatever one you use.

At least you can put two sigils on an underwater weapon, for minimal impact there. If you use only one handed weapons for your surface sets, you’re going to lose something if you want to keep the stacking sigil.

I was afraid that this was the way to work around it. That means I have to buy an extra sigil for each stacking sigil that I use. Sure it’s just another 10g, but it’s 10g going straight to the garbage — paying to avoid some silly inconvenience that should not have been there in the first place. I’ll do it and move on, but I just have to say it to the developer who “fixed” the exploit: you are dumb.

I don’t know what the underwater exploit was; but the “fix” is hurting everybody.

Is this intended? If yes, what’s the reason behind this dumb change? Does putting the same sigil on one of the underwater weapons fix it?

Havoc Squad Amplifier

mrauls.6519:

xFireize.6318:

mrauls.6519:

Snipped

Ah ok. So you do realize you have hard CCs. Does it help knowing that they are some of the best hard CC’s in the game?

mrauls.6519:

My OP isn’t edited so you can ctrl+F and see I never said I never had any swiftness. Where did you pull that from?

mrauls.6519:

It’s not offered at all!

Nowhere in my OP did I write “It’s not offered at all!”, and that little segment doesn’t write swiftness isn’t offered at all. You can bend words to seem what you want them to be but you have to look at it objectively, not subjectively. I know what that was in response to.

Some of the best hard cc’s? Are you joking? Some of the best hard cc’s come from warrior, thief, mesmer, elementalist, and engineer

I was talking about Guardian not offering much Swiftness and CC; then you were like; “It’s not offered at all!”. So you were just referring to what? Only soft CC? It’s still far from “not offered at all”. Which part were you exaggerating then?

I don’t know about sPvP, but Blinding Blade and Ring of Warding are the most useful CCs in WvW, IMO.

From what I see, you refuse to sacrifice things for movement speed, but you complain about about not having a lot of it. Like you said, you tried Rune of the Pack, but you aren’t satisfied with up to 100% in combat swiftness up time (easily achieved with 20% boon duration and SY). You run shout but you refuse to use “Retreat!”. You don’t wanna roam slowly but you refuse to use staff.

This is just a whiny guardian thread. I’m out of here. It will be endless if you engage in it, but it will quickly sink if you ignore it.

mrauls.6519:

Snipped

Ah ok. So you do realize you have hard CCs. Does it help knowing that they are some of the best hard CC’s in the game?

mrauls.6519:

My OP isn’t edited so you can ctrl+F and see I never said I never had any swiftness. Where did you pull that from?

mrauls.6519:

It’s not offered at all!

mrauls.6519:

xFireize.6318:

IMO, the reason similar threads sank is because these aren’t issues. They are just something that the class doesn’t hugely offer.

mrauls.6519:

The 5 point zeal minor could make it so symbols give swiftness instead of what it currently does.

Another reason for those AA hammer guardians to just AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA? No thanks.

It’s not offered at all! What are you talking about? Hammer auto chains take ridiculously long to get off, who is going to be basing constant swiftness off of that in a PvP situation? Swiftness doesn’t make big differences in PvE. Every second couns

I don’t do it, but apparently some guardians do.

Ok, so it’s not gonna affect WvW? Then you can do whatever you want in PvE and sPvP. I don’t do them anymore after I realize that guardian shines much much brighter in WvW. So if it affects WvW, please keep that in mind.

May I ask what build you are using, just so I could understand that no swiftness nor CC are offered at all? What else have you tried to solve this problem other than +25% movement speed from runes?

IMO, the reason similar threads sank is because these aren’t issues. They are just something that the class doesn’t hugely offer.

mrauls.6519:

The 5 point zeal minor could make it so symbols give swiftness instead of what it currently does.

Another reason for those AA hammer guardians to just AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA? No thanks.

Bloodclot.4896:

> Fireize.. that looks a lot like the build i used prior to this 1, although my traits where 0/5/10/30/25 and my runes where a mix to give me 45% boon duration. And yea its good for 1 v1 but really shines in small groups.

I never used the mix and match runes. But if they were similar, then going to med definitely doesn’t give you better condition removal.

Yup, hence the name.

Bloodclot.4896:

lol Stars

> Fireize. I went for meds because a 100% shout build wasn’t doing it for me anymore. If offers much better healing and a small dps gain as well as slightly better condition removal. I use the toughness to prec trait over fury because I have so much toughness, it gives me7% overall crit chance, the build page shows only 6%, not sure why that is. Anyway overall sec for sec the prec gain is the victor, and thats before I counter in SY which pairs up very nicely with CoP.

Maybe you’ll be interested in my build: Havoc Squad Amplifier. IMO it provides better DPS gain and condi removals than going med. It performs well for 1v1.

IMO, being a hybrid Shout / Med, you are missing out on the powerful things that you get by going full med or full shout.

Missing from Med:

• Teleport
• Fury

Missing from Shout:

• Stability
• Low cooldown Stun-break

May I ask the reason you get meditations?

Aedrion.6483:

a t s e.9614:

I don’t think we need more CC spam. If you’re struggling with the guardian it is sadly an l2p issue.

How contructive.

I play guardian at higher level tPvP often fighting teams that are top 10-30 in the leaderboards for some mysterious reason and I find that while knowing the class and timing your skills can compensate for mobility or inability to snare reliably to some extent, the actual complete lack of soft CC – cripple, chill – for a 90% pure melee class is rather significant. Note how every class in the game has access to a form of soft CC on a multitude of weapons/utilities, but the guardian hasn’t.

You can argue L2P all you like, versus a skilled engineer or spirit ranger, that makes duelling nearly impossible because they have very good mobility and the guardian can only catch up with them so many times. In most cases, it turns into a battle of attrition due to how those builds – and other similar builds – work and the guardian will lose in 80% of all cases simply due to lack of soft CC.

If you think I’m a scrub, by all means, add me on friend list and we’ll duel.

I understand what you mean. I too struggled against good Ranger who constantly apply poison, cripple, immobilize, and chill. I use GS and Hammer, and the only leap I have is affected by most of those conditions.

However, I don’t think that is an enough reason to add more soft CC to guardian; since that’s just a minor case. Most other cases, I’m very happy with my Guardian.

I think of it this way: As a Guardian, I don’t ever recall being killed by a thief in a 1v1 situation. Does thief deserve more damage? Aren’t there already people who think thief is OP or something?

A trait so useful that it should be built-in..

Hmm.. do I need to be a Warrior to understand that logic? Serious question btw.

Bloodclot.4896:

I think the real thing that would benefit guards the most would be changes to the game itself. There is to much emphasis on zergs rather than real team play, something the guardian would excel at given half a chance.

Zerging is core part of WvW, so they will never change that. If you don’t like zerging, I suggest trying a lower tier server. I think any servers on the silver tier (except Fort Aspenwood and Hedge of Denravi) would be great for small havoc squad. I went back and forth between FA and YB and they feel different.

Reserved for boon up-time list

Hello,

I’d like to share and explain my build that I use when I run with a small group. I’m very satisfied with its performance, especially after the changes to sigils and runes. The title of the build is self explanatory: it makes your party stronger, offensive and defensive wise. Feel free to make a comment.

Quick link

Summary

• Priorities: Tankiness -> DPS -> Non-heal Support.
• A lot of condition cleanser, for you and your party.
• A lot of boons for your party, with +30% boon duration from Virtues trait line.

Greatsword and Hammer
You can change either one to Staff, if you prefer; but GS and Hammer makes serious AoE damage. Sure you only have 1 leap and no ranged attacks, but 180 radius around you is a blinding red zone for enemies. 100% Swiftness up-time (Pack runes) does a decent job keeping your enemy close anyway.

Soldier’s Armor and Weapons
Simple, soldier’s has a very good balanced offense/defense.

Knight’s Trinkets
Even though it has balanced offense/defense, soldier’s lacks of precision and too much VIT is wasteful; so we don’t want to go full soldier’s. If you use exotics, use the normal knight’s, but for ascended, I suggest its alternative (PREC, pow, tough).

0/2/0/6/6 Traits

• 2 in Radiance: I like traited Signet of Resolve better than Shelter. The most annoying thing about Shelter is if it gets interrupted, it goes on full cooldown. I also like AoE blind better than Aegis.
• 6 in Honor: This trait line is full of great things, especially its minors (compared to Valor)! PoV is simply perfect for this build.
• 6 in Virtues: Again, the minors in this trait line are great. Virtue of Retribution and capped Retaliation duration stack make Vengeful trait worth the investment. Absolute Resolution and Indomitable Courage to strengthen your Virtues and extra condition cleanser and boons.

“Hold the Line!”, “Save yourself!”, “Stand Your Ground!” Utility Skills
Since you have invested in condition removals and boon duration, these three shouts are simply the way to go. Having a lot of other condition removals, SY becomes much less dangerous.

• Why not trait consecration and take Purging Flame? You can if you want; but usually small havoc group (at least mine), the members don’t always stay in one place.

Generosity, Purity, Rage, and Bloodlust Sigils
Generosity and Purity on main weapon gives extra self condition removals. They are useful if you get into trouble after pulling conditions using “Save Yourself!”. Rage is a very good sigil for secondary and slow weapon. Once it triggers, your warding becomes much faster and you can quickly switch to GS to spin. Bloodlust is simply for extra damage.

Rune of The Pack
Perfect rune for this build. With +30% boon duration, your party gets up to 65% up-time of might & fury, and 80% up-time of swiftness. That’s a lot extra DPS and movement boost for your party.

Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup and Sharpening Stone
Sharpening Stone is for additional power. Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup is pretty OP in WvW. Just another thing to cleanse conditions.

I will make a list of boon up-time on the next post soon.

May I ask why 20 in Zeal?

Wait.. I thought warrior wanna-be guardians already moved on? Some still stuck in limbo, I see..

Deathmond.7328:

5. Trait to make signets share their “active” with allies.

How would that work?

I don’t think those 3 points can determine whether a skill is weak or not.

1 & 2 apply to Ring of Warding too; but I don’t think anyone has complained about it.

I dropped Shelter for traited Signet of Resolve long time ago. My shout build doesn’t have AH and only have 300 Healing . Traited SoR actually does a good job keeping me alive. If you don’t have a lot of Protection and Stability, Shelter wouldn’t be too bad. But if you have a lot of direct damage mitigation already, extra healing and condition removal from SoR are actually worth it. I go 2 in Radiance just to get the signet trait on my 0/2/0/6/6 build.

If your argument to not use SoR because it’s easily interrupted, then why do you suggest Healing Breeze too? Is casting 1s skill that hard? It’s not for every situation — just like most skills in this game; but that does not mean it’s complete garbage.

So you don’t like getting your heal skill interrupted. How do you feel about Shelter going on full cooldown without giving any heal when interrupted by unblockable attack?

I’m not talking about meditations though. I’m just asking for further explanation about your opinions. If it’s derailed from topic, you did it.

So what decent boons do you think should be added to meditations? How about signets, does it need to give decent boons as well since guardian is the “boon” class? Spirit Weapon, maybe?

Arken.3725:

xFireize.6318:

Arken.3725:

I’d like them to remove the ICD from Empowering might just to test it. If it’s too strong, nerf it.

That’s a game tester’s job, not player’s. Were you there when Omnomberry Ghost did not have an internal cooldown of 1 sec? Just compare Empowering Might to that and add 33% since the food only has 66% chance to proc.

Empowering Might gives a very good boost of AH.

Arken.3725:

I’ve always thought of the Guardian as the “boon” profession and yet it has trouble maintaining uptime for them even when using shouts.

What’s the trouble? When is it enough? 100% up time of Protection and Stability?

Getting aggressive already I see, alright. I never stated one should have permanent boon uptime on any specific one. Outside of shouts(which have medium-long cds), the access to boons is limited.

Sure.. so when is it enough? I’m asking because you said “even with shout build”. I put Protection and Stability because they are not only the most powerful defensive boons, but we share them with allies as well. So I assumed those are the boons that you had trouble with. What boon are you having trouble with then?

Hmm want balance between passive and active? Why not make the active effects weaker?

Sarcasm aside, I think the passive effects are fine.

The virtue themselves don’t have strong active effects. They are strong because of traits. If you want to compare the passive and active, treat them as they are not traited.

The active effects are strong, but they come with cooldown.

Arken.3725:

I’d like them to remove the ICD from Empowering might just to test it. If it’s too strong, nerf it.

That’s a game tester’s job, not player’s. Were you there when Omnomberry Ghost did not have an internal cooldown of 1 sec? Just compare Empowering Might to that and add 33% since the food only has 66% chance to proc.

Empowering Might gives a very good boost of AH.

Arken.3725:

I’ve always thought of the Guardian as the “boon” profession and yet it has trouble maintaining uptime for them even when using shouts.

What’s the trouble? When is it enough? 100% up time of Protection and Stability?

Rune of the Pack if you have high boon duration from traits. The price is increasing right now because more people now realized it’s very good.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Stars.2179:

Grimreaper.5370:

xFireize.6318:

I suggest play your guardian more to get a better grip on how it works. A few traits in your list are far from being useless. Please, at least try the trait yourself next time.

Care to elaborate on which traits you find useful and why?

Care to read the rest of the other posts before picking on one poster who probably didn’t care to list it because it’s already listed before?

Again I pointed out Communal Defenses is overpowered, which according to your opinion has little use and “bad”

Consider Shattered Aegis used in conjunction with Communal Defenses in a group of 20 – 40 guardians. Perma Aegis, perma damage to anything that touch that zerg and all they have to do is seat there and press F3 turn by turn once in a while.

Also Retributive Armor is good. It gives you minimum +3.4 % critical chance up to +6.5% crit chance for an adept trait (and please do your calculation before asking “oh where do you get your number”?). And for a DPS build +3.4% permanent crit chance is a lot, and for a bunker build +6.5% crit chance can help out.

You do know that the required range for Communal Defense is quite horrid, right? Sure it might be handy in a bottlenecked situation, but that’s it. I’m not sure it’s quite GM worthy. It’s not bad, but as a GM? I dunno.

It encourages zerg-balling. 360 radius is more than enough. I would think 240 is the minimum radius.

I suggest play your guardian more to get a better grip on how it works. A few traits in your list are far from being useless. Please, at least try the trait yourself next time.

Noah.4756:

xFireize.6318:

Shield is useful in WvW. Not everyone like to spam hammer #1 and some people like mace — shield is the perfect off-hand for it, defensive wise.

The reason it’s not useful in PvE is similar to the reason tanks are not useful in PvE.

It does what it’s designed to do. It would be nice to add new effects tho, such as daze on #4 and automatic heal at the end of #5. It would also be nice for #5 to have an effect that the more time you have the dome up, the more heal you get.

5s protection on 30s cooldown is reasonable considering it’s the only weapon skill that gives on-demand AoE protection. Get the trait for shield and boon duration if you think it’s too long.

But focus isn’t exactly an offensive weapon either yet almost all Guardians use it as their off-hand. As far as protection goes for weapon skills we also have the hammer that gives on-demand permanent AoE protection (but includes an annoying light field) and therefore outperforms shield by a long shot.

I like your ideas to improve shield and they look somewhat similar to that of the Engineer. For example, if we look at the weapon skills for the Engineer’s shield they are far more superior to the Guardian skills. It reflects, blocks, dazes, stuns AND functions as a blast finisher.

For the people who say torch is fine please do explain me in which situations it would be the best choice of weapon? Because I have never seen a Guardian in PvE, PvP or WvW use the torch. I have a torch precursor myself and would be happy to craft it if I would know where I could effectively utilize it.

I like focus too, as a balanced offensive/defensive weapon. Shield is still superior defensive wise. 3 blocks are nothing when you fight a zerg and good players who know that they simply have to land 3 attacks to avoid a burst.

The reason almost all guardians use it is because it has better offense. People like DPS more than tanking. It’s the same reason why more people use sword than mace.

Hammer’s AA protection can be permanent, but definitely not on-demand.

Shield is useful in WvW. Not everyone like to spam hammer #1 and some people like mace — shield is the perfect off-hand for it, defensive wise.

The reason it’s not useful in PvE is similar to the reason tanks are not useful in PvE.

It does what it’s designed to do. It would be nice to add new effects tho, such as daze on #4 and automatic heal at the end of #5. It would also be nice for #5 to have an effect that the more time you have the dome up, the more heal you get.

5s protection on 30s cooldown is reasonable considering it’s the only weapon skill that gives on-demand AoE protection. Get the trait for shield and boon duration if you think it’s too long.

Melandru if you have -40% condition duration food and PoV. Try not to combine PoV with Rune of the Trooper, since last time I remember, the rune effect trigger first -- you don’t get a boon if you only have 1 condition.

Mikau.6920:

24 silver each? No thanks!

The 4th bonus of the rune of the pack is 10 sec or 5 sec as wiki says?

5s was the old effect. They forgot to update that. It’s 10s, meaning if you have 30% boon duration + 30% swiftness duration, you get 16s of swiftness per proc, which has 20 seconds of cooldown. Hence it gives up to 80% up time. That does not include Symbol of Swiftness or SY! or Retreat!

Rune of the pack 4th effect up time is better than any of our shouts.

oZii.2864:

xFireize.6318:

I prefer runes of the pack. Perfect for my boon duration Bunker DPS.

Pack runes are soo good on guards they always have been but it’s much better now.

Yeah they were decent back then. However I dropped them from Melandru. Then I switched back. Can’t really miss out on up to 65% Fury and 80% Swiftness up time. Go get them while they are cheap.

I prefer runes of the pack. Perfect for my boon duration Bunker DPS.

My guardian is OP

Retaliation is actually a very good boon. It’s just that it’s nerfed in WvW and PvP so people don’t appreciate it.

I suggest 1 healway and 1 boon condi cleanser dps.

0 2 0 6 6 with Rune of the Pack. 300 – 550 healing power should suffice.

Anything that is not self-heal.

Yes. This has been in the wiki for a long time.

Where did the OP’s first post go? Did it get deleted by a mod? I sure hope so. This sub-forum has become a place for people to create a thread just for attention. This one had a whole paragraph of self-introduction too — who cares?

Bump for pagination bug.

twisted fate.7251:

xFireize.6318:

Zerker still has the best DPS. I don’t think the viability of it changed much after the patch — Your damage gets reduced, so does your enemy’s. However, conditions did not change, so look out for condition classes. They were quite troublesome even before the patch.

Aeolus.3615:

nope, tryed a 29-33k hp guardian other day removing 2 conditions each 10 seconds plus shouts removing conditions etc etc, some classes can still defeat in 3-4 seconds i dont even have time to telegraph, yes conditions on small scale are far more than OP.

I thought you already gave up that build 3 months ago.

Yer I understand that, but there’s more runes in favour of conditions now, witch has overall boosted the meta condition builds as he previously mentioned a condition build can still burst you in 3-4secs, witch is better then zerker now, and they stack more toughness/vitality, so we cant hit them nearly as hard as they can us, running full defense builds as he mentioned we also get kitten d, because again we can’t damage and they can, so my only thoughts against this was keep all the condition removal I currently have (witch is the maximum and it still isn’t enough) and go full zerker gear in hopes of bursting them down before they get me down, don’t seem like it’s going to happen tho

Don’t get discouraged by Aeolus’ build. I run a weaker build (for the dps), but never experienced anything he did.

I can’t deny that conditions are one of the reasons I only use my med build occasionally. I like the burst, but it’s not worth the sacrifice of all things that you (and your party) get with shout build.

Here’s what I use to handle conditions on my shout build, other than PoV, you can use them on a med build:

• Sigil of Generosity and Purity
• Signet of Resolve healing skill
• Absolute Resolution trait
• Melandru runes
• -40% condition duration food (I never go WvW without this)
• Pure of Voice trait

As you can see, DPS is sacrificed; but IMO it’s worth it. If you have Applied Fortitude and at least 4 in Honor, it is safe to use knight and berserker mix for DPS. I still wouldn’t go for full berserker though. What is your maximum condi removal setup?

Roe.3679:

All I can see from this thread is that guardian players are unhappy with having the same, ultra viable builds, and want different ones. Welcome to every class in guild wars 2.

You would think they would learn that from this.. but nope..

I agree with what Aza said, it’s the mentality — players tend to like DPS more than tanking and/or support.

Zerker still has the best DPS. I don’t think the viability of it changed much after the patch — Your damage gets reduced, so does your enemy’s. However, conditions did not change, so look out for condition classes. They were quite troublesome even before the patch.

Aeolus.3615:

nope, tryed a 29-33k hp guardian other day removing 2 conditions each 10 seconds plus shouts removing conditions etc etc, some classes can still defeat in 3-4 seconds i dont even have time to telegraph, yes conditions on small scale are far more than OP.

I thought you already gave up that build 3 months ago.

Shanks.2907:

xFireize.6318:

Define perma blind please. Blind gets depleted once user fails to land the first attack.

Likely reapplying blind over and over. You take 3 in radiance for Renewed Justice (VoJ recharges on kill) and spam it in a zerg as the kills start coming in with staff guardian. 1 point in radiance for Justice is Blind (which is what is causing blind on VoJ) effects 5 targets per cast. Add Blind exposure (VI in radiance) for three stacks of vuln per blind per target.

You can also take 1 point in virtues for Inspired Virtues and get 3 might per cast, being able to spam might, blind and vuln. The might works well with AH too (about 1050hp per cast).

Yeah, that’s my zerging setup (although without staff). I wouldn’t call that perma blind though.

Define perma blind please. Blind gets depleted once user fails to land the first attack.

I love the sigil combos and fixes. I don’t think I’m interested in any of the new traits, but that’s okay — I’m already happy with my guardian. The vigor nerf turned out to be not a big deal. I was afraid it was gonna be, but I barely feel it.

It’s sad there weren’t any changes to Spirit Weapons, but since guardian was voted the last in the CDI balance voting I can understand. Hopefully we’ll get our changes soon.

Yes.

Amins.3710:

Guardians have been nerfed every patch outside of the Staff Change (which is argueable the only change ever made ot the class w/ any sort of balance / QoL for the Guardian)

Amins.3710:

Mediations were a slight buff – not great but absolutely needed in order to make the Med Build work in the current meta. Tha’ts not a buff, that’s a balance change.

Aza.2105:

xFireize.6318:

Consecrations and Meditations got buffed. Spirit Weapons actually got buffed too since they lost their vulnerability, although they were pretty much extra HP which didn’t solve the dying problem.

A list of buffs off hand:

1. Unscathed Contender went from 10% to 20%.
2. Conscreatios were buffed: Hallowed Ground gained 20% boon duration, Purging Flames gained 33% condition reduction and a lower cd.
3. Supreme Justice was buffed to 3 attacks to proc burning instead of 4.
5. Meditations were made instant
6. Merciful Intervention had its CD reduced
7. Focused Mind was buffed to give Fury
8. Zealous Blade was made to scale with healing power
9. Powerful Blades was buffed to 10% up from 5%
10. Scepter Power was buffed to 10% up from 5% (I think this was buffed, I could be wrong).
11. Spirit weapons got a trait that increased their damage by 50%
12. Healing Breeze got buffed several times: The first being a area cone increase, the second had its based healing increased for allies and the third happened with the feature patch.
13. Mace of Justice was buffed to give 250 healing power, this gives just as many stats as a entire trait line.
14. Scepter- Orb of Wrath had its velocity increased
15. Pure of Heart: Increased scaling with healing power from 25% to 40%
16. Retributive Armor: Increased the conversion rate from 5% to 7%
17. Searing Flames: Reduced the cooldown from 20 seconds to 10 seconds
18. Shattered Aegis: This trait now applies damage instead of burning
19. Shielded Mind: I’m pretty sure this one got buffed so that it also affects allies.

Out of this list, the majority of guardian players might use one or two. Because the rest of the buffs do not fit into their mentality of how guardian should be played. That is to say that if it does make a dungeon run take 20secs less or in pvp if the changes do not enable the player to kill targets in secs then its not useful.

O hey thx for pulling out the list.

anyway..

Non sense! We’ve been nerfed every patch! What are those? I don’t remember those changes!

Consecrations and Meditations got buffed. Spirit Weapons actually got buffed too since they lost their vulnerability, although they were pretty much extra HP which didn’t solve the dying problem.