Guild Wars 2

Hmm I actually don’t mind this. I may be biased because I only play a guardian. But will it achieve the goal? A lot of guardians still use Flashing Blade to teleport away.

Please give a TF;DR for the old folks.

Well, I thought it was today too. I guess I was too excited for the changes. It was rather fast considering the preview came only a few days ago, but I thought it was reasonable because the way I look at it, Anet finally snapped and realized that they were being dumb when they designed the game’s basic components, such as sigils and runes.

Tarsius.3170:

Fashion Mage.3712:

xFireize.6318:

Those silly mix-n-match rune guardians won’t be able to stack boon duration easily to that amount anymore. I only run a +5% boon duration build, just for the Inspired Virtue trait.

Actually the individual boon durations supposedly got buffed. :>

That’s just some legerdemain from the propaganda department. What this probably means is that runes like Monk with + 15% duration on the second slot ( so 2+2+2 gives 45% total ) will have the bonus increased to + 30% on the 4th slot ( so you get + 30% max regardless of rune combination – 4+2 probably won’t give you anything meaningful stats-wise )

Dang 30% is still too much for (4) if the (5) and (6) bonuses are gonna be better. Can I get the source pls?

I didn’t say you’re wrong! :P

Anyway, maybe the compensation that we get is we kinda a little tankier because of DPS nerf? But then aren’t they buffing conditions too? Hopefully they’ll make more balanced changes.

Maestria of Strat.2974:

Most PVT builds chose to ignore precision. With this buff, I’m wondering how viable those type of builds are. Endurance is a huge part of the PVT build IMO.

And they end up like this person and be a negative nancy.

foofad.5162:

Um, most builds have SOME KIND of boon duration. Anywhere from 25-50%. Some even go as high as 80%. At most a 10/25/0/10/25 person is going to miss out on 3.75 out of 10 seconds of vigor. If they run boon duration runes, it comes down to 1.5 seconds. Not a big deal at all.

Those silly mix-n-match rune guardians won’t be able to stack boon duration easily to that amount anymore. I only run a +5% boon duration build, just for the Inspired Virtue trait.

JoxerNL.3752:

xFireize.6318:

I don’t mind eating more direct hits with that vigor nerf, but at least can our HP pool be moved to mid tier?

I think the idea in the long run is for guards to stack non berserker to get their HPs up.

Yup and I stack Vit on my build. Dodge, Block, and Aegis are the reasons our HP pool is in the lowest tier. So if my dodge is taken away a bit, I’d like to get a bit compensation too.

I don’t mind eating more direct hits with that vigor nerf, but at least can our HP pool be moved to mid tier?

Yikes. That kinda sucks. Vigorous Precision is IMO one of the reasons we have low HP pool. I was hoping the compensation is related to our HP.

Guardians do have to have precision in the first place. Any build that does not have any precision always baffles me. So many potentials are wasted.

I’m not judging your scepter and focus “Real Talks” because I haven’t used them enough to review them, but the rest is pretty much “Buff this buff that for no real reasons. Too long cooldown this too long cooldown that. I want this I want that because other classes have this and that.”

Dynnen.6405:

Block attacks for 3 seconds. At the end of the three seconds apply protection to you and 5 party members for each attack blocked, 6 seconds max, 600 range.

I mean, seriously?

I dunno about PvE, but Protection > Aegis in WvW. Shield is doing well as a defensive weapon in WvW. The problem in PvE is the DPS meta, not Shield being not a viable. Shield is the only on-demand Protection weapon in the game, soo.. don’t take Protection off it?

OMG your test is so true! (=^_^=)

I thought I knew the game mechanics. I clearly don’t understand them. You are right, if I stupidly stacked vitality and toughness without thinking about healing and direct damage mitigation, I would still get downed easily too. I mean, who cares about Vigor, right? Let’s use a Shield trait when we don’t use one.

Guardian sucks and the game mechanics are broken, let’s roll warriors together. Warrior is da best best best best! Let’s eat those 20k hits! Yummy!

It would be nice if a dev replies and says what they think about the list, before this thread runs amok and filled with suggestions like “buff this buff that for no reasons”; just like any other previous similar threads. It would be too overwhelming to read when that happens, to filter which suggestion is legit from ones that come from people who have no idea how powerful their suggestions can turn out to be.

I like the basic idea of your stats, I too run a build where I prioritize tankiness, then DPS. However, I think your toughness is a bit too high, maybe you can tone it down a bit and get some more DPS.

Give Inspired Virtue a try. It’s a trait that I honestly can’t be ignored. Virtues are too weak without them IMO.

I love GS paired with Hammer too, they give a lot of AoE damage; but both are DPS. Sometimes it’s nice to have a defensive weapon set as a back up to let yourself heal up. You can either use mace/shield set or staff.

If you don’t have the Signet cooldown trait, give Shelter a try; maybe you’ll like it better in WvW situation. I personally don’t like Shelter because unblockable attacks can still CC you out of your blocking stance and will not heal you at all, yet it will still go to 30s cooldown. Traited Signet of Resolve is more rewarding than Shelter if you are tanky, which in this case, you are.

Your AH still need a boost, IMO. You can do this by using Empowering Might and/or Renewed Justice trait. Empowering Might gives a stable self-heal, while Renewed Justice requires a good team, yet more rewarding traited with Inspired Virtue. Using both would not be fair to your enemies. :P

Aeolus.3615:

xFireize.6318:

Aeolus.3615:

WVW i can reach 30khp in my guardian yet being downed with 2 hit since roll and block are limited.

That is a hilarious story. Here I am standing at 22k fully WvW buffed and thinking it’s overkill.. oh overtanky?

Dont pretend to be pro, show-off its not nice, and yes my ~30k can take alot of damage with the right rolls and bloks, but if u know the game that well when facing certain builds they can almost instadow you at your minimal mistake or lack of atention facing several targets.

And im not talking about WvW walking bags (zerkers).

Oh I apologize if I pretended to be a pro. I just hate people who are giving false facts to new guardians, discouraging them to try to be tanky for WvW. Your build explains so much though, thanks for the clarification. I was curious how 30k HP guard get downed easily, now it makes sense.

I partially agree with the list, I can’t seem to find a way to utilize most of the traits listed above. However, I find some of them are still viable in certain situations. This comes from a person who only does WvW.

Mace and Shield: Viable for defensive purpose. Their traits are fine.

Inner Fire: Great for WvW.

Defender’s Flame: It’s not very powerful, but Shelter provides a good amount of blocks. AFAIK Aegis triggers this, just like Might of the Protector trait.

Resolute Healer: Shield #5 > Focus #5 in WvW reviving situation. Focus #5 does not stop enemies from stomping your ally, it also does not protect alive allies who are reviving the downed one. I use Shield and this is one of the useful things that you can do with Shield #5. It would be nice if the dome is longer than just merely 1 second tho.

Writ of Exaltation: Um, if you mentioned this before Anet increased the radius of all Symbols, I’d probably agree with you. But now that they have 180 base radius, 240 radius is enough. I mean come on, it’s as big as a Necro’s well.

Empowering Might: 240 is more than enough for WvW. This trait is a big boost self-heal for AH guardians. Um, AFAIK this trait did not have a 1 CD and Anet nerfed it because the healing that it gave was pretty ridiculous, similar to what happened with Omnomberry Pie/Ghost. This trait is EZ mode that I don’t even use it unless I’m fighting a giant enemy zerg.

Elusive Power: Honestly, I think this trait is fine. It encourages dodging, which is a big part of the Honor trait line.

Meditations: The cooldowns are fine, considering the amount if heal AND fury it gives. Merciful Intervention is not useless, it’s just not for DPS purpose. Isn’t it still bugged where you get 2x Monk’s Focus heal for a total of 1960×3 hp base heal?

There are too many threads like this. Here we go again..

Trice.4598:

xFireize.6318:

This is useful, thanks.

I’ve never tried to look closely into DPS guardian, because in my opinion the damage is not worth the sacrificed tankiness, not only EHP but traits too. In my eyes, this spreadsheet supports that thought. Am I reading it incorrectly or missing something?

AH build using knights/soldier or other think rely on Heal/HP/Armor to mitigate damage.
A DPS build like the top one rely on Reflects/Projectile Absorb/Aegis/Weakness/Protection/Blind

My AH front-line bunker guardian build has access to and rely on all of those too (plus heal), sitting at 34k EHP. Like I said, the reward is still not worth the punishment IMO. I’m just looking at it from a WvW perspective, where I need to survive an enemy’s zerg burst bomb.

I am thinking to make a guardian with a higher DPS after I finished ascended armor for my current build. I doubt I will go full berserker with 20/25/0/0/25 though.

This is useful, thanks.

I’ve never tried to look closely into DPS guardian, because in my opinion the damage is not worth the sacrificed tankiness, not only EHP but traits too. In my eyes, this spreadsheet supports that thought. Am I reading it incorrectly or missing something?

I don’t think we desperately need one, but stuff does get boring after a while and it’s nice to add something new. I think Mace or Horn would be an appropriate addition.

Gee whiz.. Can’t we have a thread without a guardian whining about this and that? If some people find their way to utilize something that you can’t, it doesn’t mean it’s is terribad.

Amins.3710:

Mace/Shield is good, but you need to run Boon Duration.

I only have +5% boon duration, it’s still amazing.

Aeolus.3615:

WVW i can reach 30khp in my guardian yet being downed with 2 hit since roll and block are limited.

That is a hilarious story. Here I am standing at 22k fully WvW buffed and thinking it’s overkill.. oh overtanky?

I thought Mace / Shield set was bad too. I tried it in PvE and didn’t like it. 1500 hours WvW later I gave the set another try. It was one of the best decisions in my build crafting. And no, I don’t even run a healing power build and it’s still viable. For me, it’s the best weapon set to be paired with GS if you like to swim in an enemy zerg.

Tip:
Mace, Shield, and Hammer are the only three weapons in the game that provide Protection. If you don’t know how to use them, it doesn’t mean they suck. Maybe it’s just not suitable for your game play.

DaedSaint.6190:

@xFireize: I must be missing the connection between precision and dodgerolls. Elaborate?

check out Vigorous Precision trait!

Oozo.7856:

If solo, mace and shield is good for fighting melee that has to go toe to toe with you but falls apart against anyone that kites or uses ranged damage. Mace and shield is good for a group since it brings some utility.

Sword is good against both melee and ranged and gives you an extra escape tool when you get zerged, and you will get zerged. For that reason alone, I see sword as a must have for WvW.

Mobility is king in WvW. You can avoid a ton more damage with sword 2 than with mace in the end actually making it the better “defensive” weapon, IMO.

To each his own. I prefer Mace #2 because it gives a very high boost of AH self-heal, making it the better defensive weapon. Hmm, you must think GS is also the better “defensive” weapon, compared to Hammer.

DaedSaint.6190:

@xFireize: Good to see someone else appreciates M/S. But no precision because this is a niche build. It wont be used to solo roam. It will be used to roam with a thief who is the primary source of damage. Therefore, for this particular scenario, this build does not require any damage output. On the topic of crits that take advantage of traits, I simply found that either I did not like that particular setup, or I had to give something up that I did not want to.

But you can do up to twice the amount of dodge heal if you have some precision.

I feel like not a lot of people realize how great Mace & Shield set is, defensive wise.

Anyway, back to the build. Can I ask why no precision at all?

Noah.4756:

I could see the potential of the Mace + Shield in WvW when you use it as a defensive back-up weapon although it feels unsatisfied in comparison to our other weapons due to long cooldowns and short durations.

Couldn’t agree more! I use it along with my GS. For a skill that gives on-demand 5s protection, I don’t think 24s CD is too bad. It would be nice if the skill had a little bit of extra so it doesn’t look so plain, like 1s daze or some torment.

Noah.4756:

Wall of Reflection is a very strong utility in WvW where a lot of the players in zergs are using ranged projectile weapons.

I didn’t say it wasn’t strong. It’s a perfect protection for party rebuffing, while Shield #5 simply ruins the buffing combo field. For me, they are different and I can’t simply replace my shield with that utility skill. I’m kinda allergic to utilities that have a cast time haha. Just a personal preference.

Noah.4756:

• Shield of Judgment gives 5 seconds of protection every 30 seconds. Why would we use this when Hammer gives us permanent protection.
• Shield of Absorption is supposed to absorb projectiles for 4 whole seconds. Why not just equip the utility Wall of Reflection and get 3 times the duration and reflect the damage back to the enemy while having the skill on a lower cooldown. Or again, use that Hammer to knock your enemy back while doing damage and still have a lower cooldown.

The alternatives are just way better. I feel like there is no need for the shield and that is what needs to be changed in order for people to start using shield again.

• I don’t know what kind of WvW strategy you use but I actually prefer Shield #4 than Hammer’s Symbol. Sure you can have a permanent Protection with hammer, but you can’t use it as an on-demand boon when a huge zerg coming towards you, vice versa. On top of that, it’s a Symbol. You have to stay in the radius in order to get the boon. In WvW you can’t afford doing that. I pair my shield with mace and I love Symbol of Faith, but do I stay in the radius for 4+ secs? No, I leave and enjoy the AH self-heal from allies who pass the symbols from a safe distance.

• But what if I want to keep my precious utilities? Wall of Reflection does not heal or knock back. No thanks, I’ll keep my shield.

After trying every Guardian weapon except torch, I chose mace and shield as the best sustain set for my Guardian. So what if many people can’t use it? It doesn’t mean it’s weak. Remember that Shield is an defensive/support off-hand weapon. From that definition, it’s already doing a fine job. If people want to do some DPS, they should pick a different off-hand weapon.

I got rid of my Soldier runes for Melandru, and it was worth it.

It depends, if you like apples then you like apples. If not, you may like oranges. You just gotta try both and it’s silly to ask people which one is better.

Go ahead and play Warrior. Why struggle playing a class that’s constantly compared to another? I’m fine with Hammer #5. There are other more important things to fix.

I don’t understand why a lot of people are so whiny about the cast time. The cast time is 1 second, similar to Signet of Resolve. I know a lot of people expected it to be instant, so did I. But I don’t think 1 second is so loooooong that people have to make a deal out of it. At 0 healing point and Med traited, the Litany of Wrath gives you 3600 HP per 24 seconds. On the other hand, Shelter gives you kitten per 30 seconds. If you divide them into hp per second, you get 150 hp per second for Litany of Wrath and 151.83 hp per second for Shelter. From there you just need to pick which one is better for your build: block or damage+heal. I mean seriously, it’s not hard to cast Signet of Resolve, why would it be hard to cast Litany of Wrath? You know what’s dumber? Getting interrupted while blocking using Shelter. No heal and it goes on full cooldown. That’s the main reason I prefer Signet of Resolve than Shelter.

The negative side of Litany of Wrath is probably it relies heavily on the med traits.

I think it’s safe to say 5-sec Protection > Aegis. Outside of sPvP, I don’t think the cooldown is too long. Shield is one of the three weapons in the game that can provide Protection. Don’t be silly.

I stopped caring when I saw the official preview thread was closed after a few days. I don’t know why a lot of people still gave a lot of feedbacks after the official thread was closed. The feedbacks in there weren’t listened why would you think the unofficial one would be? The garbage changes and the fact that they didn’t come up with ANY Spirit Weapons solutions clearly told me they don’t know much the guardian situation. That’s the reason I didn’t get my hopes up about the patch.

Yuck.. So much whining. I guess not a lot of people saw this coming when the patch preview was posted a month ago.

You easily tag enemies with GS. Sigil of Stamina will help you staying inside enemy zerg.

How did they get help from another server?

Any clues what’s the next match-up gonna be?

Aza.2105:

Spirit weapons are one of those things you just don’t talk about here. Anet doesn’t talk about them, we don’t talk about them. They don’t exist.

It’s funny and sad because it’s true. In the Dec 10th patch preview, we have the least number of changes, yet none of them is related to Spirit Weapon.

Why not? It’s the current lowest cooldown on-demand Aegis, isn’kitten I am gonna compare this rune with Melandru tonight and see which one is better. The difference is pretty much Aegis with 30s cooldown vs. -5% Cond. Duration & -25% Stun Duration. I use Signet of Judgment and Resolve.

I just wish they didn’t make it a toughness rune, since we already have Melandru. If it was Vitality, I’d be so happy.

But then again, it’s probably more valuable to thief or warrior.. Gee whiz Anet..

Lucentfir.7430:

xFireize.6318:

A 1v1 fight between 2 guardians should never end. If one dies, he/she is a bad guardian. And no, a bunker guardian shouldn’t be killed by a DPS guardian. Maybe OP should find a different class to fight against and post this thread to his/her current match-up thread instead.

A DPS guardian can indeed win against bunker specced guardians with relative ease. If they’re specced healway it’s just a tad more difficult to get them down. It’s just a little more time consuming is all.

A bunker guardian shouldn’t even die to a thief, why would it die to a DPS guardian? I never played other classes other than guardians, but isn’t thief a better DPS class? With how easy it is for a guardian to mitigate direct damage, I don’t see it happening honestly. I find DPS guardian sacrifices too much tankiness if they really want to deal a lot of damage.

I can easily see a guardian that sacrifices everything for DPS dies to a guardian that prioritizes tanking first, then DPS.

1. It is way way way more than sufficient. Negating direct damage is very easy as a guardian, but our low HP makes us vulnerable to condition damage. 60-65% duration reduction is huge. Not only it will reduce the damage, it will reduce the duration of Soft CC such as crippled, chilled, and immobilized. You have heard tons of guardians whine about how slow guardian is, so this set up will help a lot. With this set up, the only reason to use PoV trait and/or Soldier runes is to help your teammates. You pretty much already have more than enough defense against Conditions.

2. Thank you for pointing out how awesome we are compared to Warrior. Not a lot of guardians see that. I’d say 3000 armor is enough, but I have 3300 on my frontline bunker build.

3. For self-heal, Empowering Might gives you way more heal than the other two traits. So if your intention is for defense, choose that. Between Writ of Persistence and Exaltation, Persistence would give you more boons and self heal. Exaltation would make your symbols as big as necro’s wells. It looks awesome, honestly.

4. It’s not as great compared to a 5-sized group, but your other sources of heal should be able to handle 1v1.

5. You have decent DPS, give GS a try!

A 1v1 fight between 2 guardians should never end. If one dies, he/she is a bad guardian. And no, a bunker guardian shouldn’t be killed by a DPS guardian. Maybe OP should find a different class to fight against and post this thread to his/her current match-up thread instead.

I use Honorable Shield in my Mace and Shield build. The shield skills have long cooldowns, so that trait helps. On top of that, Protection is very powerful in WvW, and Shield is one of the three weapons in the game that can provide it. So I think the trait is worth it.

Purity is nice, but if you intent to buff your teammates, I suggest replacing it with Strength in Numbers instead.

I don’t know about the other tiers and servers, but things have gone super boring in FA (silver tier) since the third week.

So yeah it is a disappointment. But I’m still waiting for the genius who invented it to prove me wrong.

Just kiss already..

I tried mace and shield a couple of weeks ago to replace Staff as the secondary weapon to heal up. In the middle of a zerg, they give a better performance than Staff. Sure I don’t have an access to swiftness, but I think it’s worth the tankiness that mace and shield provide. And no, I don’t run a healing power build.

Shield is fine for me. I don’t mind some lil buffs if a lot of people think it’s weak; but I would not give up Shield 5 for Focus 5. Especially if it’s like what OP mentioned above; no damage output and 2 blocks. I mean, seriously?

Thanks for correcting me, I haven’t played sPvP in a long time.

I think 5 seconds protection is enough.

I see Focus as an offensive/defensive weapon, while shield as an defensive/support weapon. That’s why I think they aren’t reversed. 3 blocks are easily depleted in zerg fight.