Guild Wars 2

He already has inertial converter, which I assume is why he went 5 more into tools as toolkit shield is better than 5 points in firearms..

However, thanks a lot Chaith and Maskganda I’ll give your strategies a try. I was pretty sure condition vs condition was a lose lose against any decent necro, just wanted to get confirmation from some people who are more knowledgeable than myself on the subject.

Yeah, I know how most of the abilities work, but to be honest it seems just like fighting a huge uphill battle. I took a break before the last patch and when I came back it was like their dps potential had dramatically increased…. Generally I run p/p toolkit, nades, and rocketboots, although I generally will switch it out for elixir c when I see a solo necro, however generally if he knows half of what he’s doing I just end up dieing or running away lol..

So, I have been playing this game since head-start maining an engi. Currently I do pretty well in WvW except against perma-stealthing thieves who just run away forever and kittening necros. I honestly just am at a loss when fighting a decent one. In WvW it seems they keep 100% deathshroud so at the start of the fight you go in knowing you need to burn not 1 but 2 health bars, consume conditions completely ignores poison and actually rewards them for having it on them… and the fact that they can xfer back my conditions to me? So I ask you engineer community HOW DO YOU BEAT A GOOD necro..?

I’ve been running this exact build for a while, although I use pistol shield/HT and runes of altruism. Solo killing power isn’t really where this build excels, I like the HT because of the aoe heal/cleanses, and water field. I duo run with a guardian 99% of the time, so I rely a little on him for additonal damage. This build will make you IMMORTAL against non-condition builds, and I mean totally unkillable 1 v 1 or 1 v 2 even. However like all great things your weakness will be to conditions as even with HT we only have 3 condition removals, which against a necro or condition engi just is not enough.

For solo-roaming I still prefer the killing power of a pistol/shield tooldkit/bombkit/rocketboots engineer sporting runes of perplexity. Although I do enjoy this build quite a bit as well.

Interesting, I have never seriously pve’d, but after taking off for 2 months and coming back I’m really looking for a good pve build, and you say glass cannon is the way to go? What traits, runes and sigils would you suggest for going full zerker?

Earthmonkey.4326:

RaynStargaze.6510:

pve:
might stacking + power + bombs

pvp:
HgH condi (pretty much the only viable build atm)
I`ve seen Ostricheggs go for HgH + power – not my cup of tea though…

Overall power builds are not viable in tpvp imo – no damage no nothing – I used to try a flamethrower build with perma 25 stacks might + berserker + 20 points in the crit % tree… damage output was still insanely underwhelming even on FT (2) double crits

I dont play WvW but if i did i would probably spec for crowd control and escapes so probably rifle + prybar + something

Power rifle is really the only viable thing for engi imo, especially in tPvP. Other classes will simply outclass you with Condis.

The problem with your build is that you went full power burst, relying on the rifle and the FT for your damage. Which is silly, because the FT isn’t a damaging kit, it’s a control kit, and the rifle is a split between control and damage. How you build a glass rifle build (why you’d want to for tPvP, idk) is tossing an air sigil on the rifle, grab static discharge, and use the rifle and tool kit, grab utility goggles to add to your burst, then you could either make yourself slightly survivable by grabbing a stunbreak or tossing something else on that will add more to your burst… though you shouldn’t need anything else.

For more in-depth reasoning for why condi engi’s aren’t as good as power rifle engis, refer to my previous post.

Seriously, I don’t understand why people think HgH nades builds are the only viable option for the Engi class in PvP… do you people really know your class that little? It’s kind of sad, and probably one of the contributing reasons to why PvP is failing in this game. Lack of game knowledge.

While I run HGH power nades/rifle mostly I’m curious to which class you think outdoes us on condition damage? HGH p/p nades with 25 stacks of might that it can keep up constantly is some of the best condition damage in the entire game….

With that being said I run both HGH variants both power nades and condition nades one utilizing P/P the other utilizing rifle. Power is ran with zerker amulet and condition is ran with rabid. Both are very viable I just prefer power because I like the control options it gives.

Interesting changes to the build, I kinda think since you went 20 into inventions that reinforced shield is kinda sexy in comparison to cloaking device, but whatever is working. Over the past week I’ve actually ran into a couple of point holding turret engineers while running HGH power rifle build and I’ll tell you getting near that point without getting locked down is a real pain. Anyway good solid gameplay, I plan on revisiting the turret engineer sometime in the near future. Keep up the good work!

Cheers,

Zaragoz

I still have not found a turret build I like any better than the bomb variation that I linked, I feel it just puts the condition damage over the top which leads to the best point control. With that being said I also think turrets are still by and far inferior to either HGH conditions or HGH power rifle/grenades. You lack condition removal, a guaranteed stomp, or any form of true burst mitigation, sure you can blowup a turret but its still no 3 second invulnerability, plus due to the poor targeting of the turrets you will lose some fights against mesmers, rangers, and necromancers that you would otherwise win.

Can it work? Yes. Is it among our best options? No.

I don’t know, and its not for me to say, but I feel our power builds don’t even pretend to compete with our conditions builds in wvw atm, I’m sure someone will come chime in about how they kill people with SD, but lets be for real I can kill someone with a prybar/staticshot/blow torch combo almost as kitten fast as a SD build and sometimes faster depending on how dumb they are while having AMAZING condition removal and survivability whereas most SD builds don’t have either.

I also sometimes run HGH power rifle/grenades and it doesn’t even come close in small group fights, although I feel it is just as good if not better for zerg vs zerg, although I despise zerg vs zerg fights and much prefer roaming.

I think it is a matter of time before we see the halved confusion damage from spvp/tpvp make its way over into wvw and to be honest it should lol… Magnetpull/prybar/staticshot then lay on other conditions will kill 85% of the people we meet in wvw. Not to mention the condition/confusion mesmers you see running around its just absurd how strong confusion is when you get 5+ stacks on you.

Totally agree with you Kimbald, after playing 30+ tournaments on the build I posted this weekend, I cannot tell you how I cringed when seeing a necro, ranger or mesmer heading to my point. It was like my turrets just didn’t really help me at all, the net turret would immobilize a clone or pet then my rocket turret would waste overcharge on another one, it was a complete nightmare. All the while the player is just melting me because my cc was wasted on stupid npcs.

With that being said however there were fights I had against warriors, guardians, engineers and thieves where they would be COMPLETELY locked down and unable to do anything at all… I actually had a couple people message me asking how I did it lol. And I did okay against some mesmers, necros, and rangers as well, although I lend that to the fact that they were unsure of how to deal with me and got trapped in some decent cc chains, although against those classes I pretty much had to drop supply crate to even stand a chance.

Overall turrets are just way to squishy for the type of cooldown they currently have. Rocket turret for example has a 50 second cooldown after it dies, and let me tell you even if you spec for the 30% increased life it still dies really fast to anyone who can target it, and there we sit for 45 seconds without a utility. I would like to see them add something to help deal with either the cooldowns or maybe an increased health buff, at the very least rework it so that the countdown timer works in a different way so we can actually pick up and move without having such a long cooldown.

Agreed I dislike this change after recently starting to play turrets some in spvp I have had them despawn on me at some inopportune times… basically like you said make it 15 mins instead of 5..

Just wanted to give an update, I have still been running turrets for the past few days with some minor changes to the builds posted. The biggest change I made and have had great success with is using the bombkit, with the sheer amount of knockdowns, and immobilzes it meshes very well with the bombkit, plus the condition damage works great with bombkit as well. As with all the other builds you lack a stunbreaker and hurt for condition removal, but honestly I have had more issues with condition removal than a stunbreaker as you can just explode your healing turret for a nice knockback. I by no means think this build is perfect, but I’ve been having moderate success with it.

I’m sure it could use some tweaks for min/maxing. I feel sigil of geomancy really does well with this build to as your near your opponent when you change to bombkit. The second sigil could go either way, but I’ve just been running it with corruption. Anyway heres the build I’ve been running feel free to try it out and let me know what you think.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqelIq6ZntSXF1LJRoCFGki8uXRF0/nHylupF;ToAgyCuoAzAmAMLYOwkgN8YuA

Cheers,

Zaragoz

I tried it out and while not as bad as I originally thought it would be it still is really not great.. against anyone smart enough to kill my rocket turret I just felt like I was fighting an uphill battle where my elixir builds would have prevailed 10x better. Anyway just my 2 cents, but I feel like turrets still need some work their targeting is just so bad that they literally felt worthless against any class with pets/illusions. Glad to see some people can use it decent, but I’ll definatley still be running HGH power or HGH conditions for tourneys.

Pretty much what they said, shrapnel is actually the hardest hitting grenade other than grenade barrage, since the nerf to grenade 1 you obviously don’t even want to use it other than hitting points with multiples when other grenades are on cd but even then it feels lackluster, but since I run power and i like a little boost, i go with +10% damage on explosions trait. with fire, hoelbrak, and strength you run around with 90% might duration after adding that to your inherent 30% from trait line. Boon stripping can be a pain, but you should be putting on might like crazy, and even without it a well landed shrapnel or freeze grenade still hits so kitten hard. Hip shot is kinda my go to vs range classes since hitting a moving target from a distance with grenades can be hard, and if you can land stability on toss elixir s the grenade barrage/jump shot combo will rip off 3/4 of almost anyones life anywho…

Goodluck,

Zaragoz

Refer to my original post, I actually played an SD build yesterday in about 6 soloque tourneys it just isn’t on par with the HGH rifle/grenade build, one condition user will just completley kitten on you and theres nothing you can do about it… I just feel its less survivable overall, although and I reiterate if your not good at landing grenades you will feel that the HGH power build lacks in dps considering thats where a very large portion of your damage will come from, but once you get good at landing them you will be sold on it. As I said with 25 stacks of might up a grenade barrage will just absolutley wreck people.

Goodluck,

Zaragoz

Now I never said that :P but he is talking about two power builds, although the power variant is basically the same minus the zerkers amulet and rifle lol :P

Totally depends on how good they are, but in wvw I just magnet pull them/prybar switch to pistols and unload every condition I have which alot of the time is enough. Use elixir S if they set up a good stun/shatter on you before they can trigger the shatter, if you see them cast illusionary zerker just do you best to dodge, and if your on cd with elixir s make sure to roll through the clones so they waste their shatter and don’t hit you, if you roll backwards they will keep coming at ya. Other than that just keep the mesmer focused and if he is a gc he will go down. They are a tough fight for me as well and sometimes a win/loss will just come down to how good I they are.

For spvp I run a power grenade build so their clones aren’t a huge issue, main thing is to dodge that sword/pistol stun combo and keep their clones killed with grenades. A good mesmer is really just a hard fight on engineer.

Anyway goodluck,

Zaragoz

First off, he’s talking HGH power vs SD not HgH conditions, and now to the meat of it. HGH power is the way to go, run it with zerkers amulet and you still end up with 18.9k health in spvp and its really powerful. I run it all the time, although I don’t use speedy kits I use 20% Rifle cooldown reductions. From all your elixirs you will have enough speed, and the ability to use your rifle abilities faster is just stronger in my opinion. As far as burst is concerned HGH power hits like a kitten truck once you get 25 stacks of might up, each grenade will be hitting hard and grenade barrage will rip off 1/2 of most people lifes at that point, and thats not even to mention how much condition removal you get. The biggest issue with it is the need to hit the grenades to really get your dps up, if you can do that then this build is 100% better than SD that I promise you.

Goodluck,
Zaragoz

PS. In wvw just run conditions utilizing p/p and prybar for a nasty 9 stacks of confusion. Thats all you’ll ever need, power just falls short in wvw atm but its definatley competitive in spvp.

Really I figured both rifle and rocket would be affected by power. Interesting to know.

I don’t know I want to like and use turrets, but their lack of mobility just really hurt them for me as I roam with a guardian. Also would you use power for damage? Or would you use conditions? As rocket does aoe burning?

Nothing totally unexpected to be honest, we knew for a fact 100nades was gone that was a given, and we cannot really complain as thief and warrior burst were also reduced. I do feel overall kit refinement did more damage in its current form than it did good, as I feel the toolkit, flamethrower, elixir gun and grenade kit all had better KR procs pre patch, however it looks like med kit and bombkit got some love so we’ll see how it plays out.

My only true gripe is that in wvw and spvp to be the best I can possibly be I am forced to run p/p. In spvp I run it with grenades and in WvW I run it with toolkit, both builds revolve around HGH and multiple elixirs. I feel like there are other builds that can work, but they don’t even come close to these two. HgH rifle build is a good example of this as it has great sustained damage, but relies so much on landing grenades, whereas I can just Magnet pull someone into a prybar, static shot them and blowtorch them and normally thats about all it takes.

I will end on saying that I feel the engineer is one hell of a force to be reckoned with and anyone who is having problems killing with it in pvp is doing something terribly terribly wrong. The patch was overall a move into possibly making other builds viable, I just don’t see them being on the level of the current p/p condition builds we have, but hopefully that will be rectified in future patches.

Cheers,

Zaragoz

Dude if you are running a condition build of course thats whats going to do most of your damage… think about it.

Well its something I would think there would be alot more complaining about if that was the case.

Shranks.3260:

daydream.2938:

Shranks.3260:

zaragoz.6351:

No, you do not do 2000 damage in spvp from one stack of confusion. One condition removal will remove every single stack you put on me, and I will only take one hit from confusion from removing them. Not sure the exact damage but nowhere near 2000

Zaragoz – I’m able to stack 12x confusion on somebody – that will lead to 2047 damage per skilluse – even also on condicleaning!

if you remove it – I just apply it to you 10 seconds later again!

If you cannot clean it again – you either cannot use any skill for 5 seconds – or you will probably die… as a elementalist at full life (which is usually 12-14k life) you only need to use 7 skills – or when I do let’s say in that time 5k damage on my own on you – it needs only 7k damage – so 3 skills…

That cannot be intended?

iF your fighthing a thief the fight wont lsat 20 seconds, he will be dead or you will. If your fighting a necro he can send it to you. If your fighting me on my engy i can cleanse every 5 seconds, so =) its not an instant win . Trust me i main engy and have tested this. I find hgh condition to be more useful overall.

Just tested bleeding – that ticks double the speed it should! That’s why

All condis are broken currently – and it feels direct dmg wouldn’t come through properly!

Are you sure? Double damage conditions just isn’t something I see them letting slip through on a patch day? Or are you simply confused and mistaken?

daydream.2938:

Shranks.3260:

zaragoz.6351:

No, you do not do 2000 damage in spvp from one stack of confusion. One condition removal will remove every single stack you put on me, and I will only take one hit from confusion from removing them. Not sure the exact damage but nowhere near 2000

Zaragoz – I’m able to stack 12x confusion on somebody – that will lead to 2047 damage per skilluse – even also on condicleaning!

if you remove it – I just apply it to you 10 seconds later again!

If you cannot clean it again – you either cannot use any skill for 5 seconds – or you will probably die… as a elementalist at full life (which is usually 12-14k life) you only need to use 7 skills – or when I do let’s say in that time 5k damage on my own on you – it needs only 7k damage – so 3 skills…

That cannot be intended?

iF your fighthing a thief the fight wont lsat 20 seconds, he will be dead or you will. If your fighting a necro he can send it to you. If your fighting me on my engy i can cleanse every 5 seconds, so =) its not an instant win . Trust me i main engy and have tested this. I find hgh condition to be more useful overall.

Its not that you find it more useful its that it is more useful…. Running toolkit and bombkit might work in wvw where your fighting idiots, but in tpvp it just is not viable… any good player without condition removal up will just wait out the 12 stacks of confusion and attack you once its gone… and if you try to reapply it they will have caught on and dodge your bomb and prybar and there you are up kitten creek without a paddle.

Not everyone… I don’t even consider bombkit viable other than in a bunker build for bob..

I have no idea what your talking about. They would need to attack you 12 times in 5 seconds to trigger that many stacks of confusion, in which case they are morons to begin with. Unless its all triggering at once and is bugged maybe? Would need someone who can play to verify that though as I’m at work. Either way if your able to land prybar, concussive bomb and static shot on someone they are horrible to begin with…. enough said.

No, you do not do 2000 damage in spvp from one stack of confusion. One condition removal will remove every single stack you put on me, and I will only take one hit from confusion from removing them. Not sure the exact damage but nowhere near 2000

waka.9826:

zaragoz.6351:

Pfft, turrets still suck…. the two most viable Tpvp builds both contain primarily elixirs one being HGH pistol elixirs and the other being HGH rifle/grenade build. Not much changed other than the fact 100 nades is now gone.

Atleast we have a reason to take elixir U now.

True, I still think for the HGH build s and b are better but meh… I digress it will possibly work for some people.

All they have to do is remove the kitten condition…. if they aren’t running condition removal its their own kitten fault.

Pfft, turrets still suck…. the two most viable Tpvp builds both contain primarily elixirs one being HGH pistol elixirs and the other being HGH rifle/grenade build. Not much changed other than the fact 100 nades is now gone.

I doubt it DIMH hgh pistols still reigns supreme… However HGH rifle/grenades is a pretty decent second place runner in my book. Either way spec elixirs or go home.

I’m actually surprised how much of a buff turrets got, but again I still don’t see them being that viable in tpvp due to their lack of mobility same goes for wvw net turret is really the only one I’ve seen people use to much success… although who knows I may end up being surprised, but I doubt it.

Mif.3471:

zaragoz.6351:

Yeah, I’m actually surprised by how many changes we got in comparison to the other classes.

Half of them are bug fixes worded to sound like buffs.

True but I do like the kit refinement changes, will have to test it but medkit and bombs are looking kinda sexy now.

Yeah, I’m actually surprised by how many changes we got in comparison to the other classes. Overall not a bad patch I will be interested to see what new builds come out of it. Although I will still be surprised if any of it can match the current HGH condition build.

I honestly hope your feeling about rifle damage is wrong. I honestly feel like power builds are in a bad way especially considering 100nades is sure to be gone and a nerf to rifle would only make things worse…

Lol this thread is a joke. You beat HGH condition engineers with your 1 condition clear vs their 6 on demand? Interesting… Interesting… do tell us more fantastical stories…..

While I agree some decent changes to make more builds viable would be nice. I certainly don’t feel we’re the weakest class. Our hgh condition build is pretty kitten strong as most of the better engineers here can attest to although I do so hate being pigeon holed into it because it is our best build at the moment. Anyway I can agree warriors really need some love, and it good to see mesmers are ranked so low because I have felt for a long time that they are on the verge of being OP. Against good mesmers I have pretty much gotten to the point of throwing my hands up and running away.. and even that is hard to do with an illusionary berserker hitting you in the back for 5k+ while the mesmer in question is nowhere to be seen.

First it depends on what your doing, for pve it doesn’t really matter so sure, but as Ostricheggs said if your plan on being a really good engineer pvper who uses grenades, then use the targeting, it shows you where its going and actually gives you the ability to lob the grenades accuratley. Take his advice seriously as he’s probably one of the engineering communities most knowlegable pvpers where alot of the people giving you advice are most likeley not even close to his skill level.

His build does in fact work well, although I dropped the 10 points in inventions for 10 points in explosives to pick up incendiary powder as I like running this build with full rabid. I hadn’t used coated bullets or rifled barrel in FOREVER… but to be honest for a roamer its great, it gives me the ability to really play the fringes of combat while my guardian friend distracts them with knockdowns and such right up in the middle of things.

While invigorating speed is pretty nice I honestly don’t feel it is mandatory at all. With this build you get 2 dodges, elixir s, and gear shield, that is quite a lot of defense not to mention a possible stealth with toss elixir s… It also has good condition removal, and with rabid you get a ton of toughness as well as around 19,400 health from speccing down the vitality tree. Just my two cents, but its working well for me and my guardian buddy.

With that being said I’m still leaning into trying a rifle HGH grenade build eventually, but I have a feeling it won’t match up as confusion is just to good in wvw.. 1 pry bar is insta win against alot of GC theives, but we will see.

Okay so I’ve tried out your build Mask, and it really wasn’t that far off from what I was running, the main difference is yours has a bit more survivability vs my more dmg. I honestly know where your coming from with the zerkers, I was running 100 nades and wrecking peope but we were losing about every 2v 3+ we went against due me getting focused. I’ve kinda considered trying out hgh rifle/grenades utlizing a full set of zerkers armor with soldier back/trinkets dunno how they would work but meh..

It honestly seems that to do our best though we’re forced into conditions. So far tonight we have been winning some 2v4’s and 5’s but losing everything above that… Sad day, I have no idea how you guys managed to fight 20 people but hats off to you

Honestly for solo roaming against any decent player your best bet is an HGH condition build. Hands down, now that can change if you run with other people. Static discharge will leave you squishy, and prone to get one hit killed by any other burst class ie. warrior, theif, mesmer.

So my five man roaming team has all but fallen apart, and now its left with just me and a Bunker guardian. Basically he is the meatshield with some control and a little dps and I am the go to damage guy.

So my question is what do you guys think is the best build for running with this?

Title is exactly what I’m looking for, looking for a bunker that can still do okay damage. I run with 4 other people, and have been running a p/p condition spec, but I am looking for something with more survivability due to the fact that we already have a couple of GC’s running with us.

I’m familiar with tankcat, but just curious what some of the other options are? Anyway thanks in advance.

Just wanted to update this I know I was complaining hard about power builds, so this morning I started playing around alot with stuff and ended up revisiting one of the first builds I played on. The good old static discharge build! In all honesty I forgot how much dps it can dish out on multiple foes at that, and if the upcoming patch improves rifle turret all the better. Take what I say with a grain of salt though as I’m only rank 29 in spvp and by no means the best player out there.

Anyway if you havn’t tried it out give it a shot! Spam your tooldbelt abilities when their defensive cooldowns are not up. Don’t forget you can drop rifle turret and explode it for an extra static discharge when the other one is on cd. Use elixir r toss abilitiy for additonal condition removal when running against condition specs. Works well, its no one hitter quitter like 100nades can be, but the dps is nothing to scoff at. Also you can trade kit refinement for power wrench, I just prefer the aoe snare on switch because it has saved me many times. Anyway goodluck!

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0picnpShF1LJxoHdm0fGki86XRFy/nCsF;TkAg0U4YwRgjFHHOScGWcsA

Thats true Amadeus, I guess we will have to wait and see exactly what happens. I just don’t want to see power take a backseat to conditions =D

@ Ayestes Potentially being the key word, not to mention grenades are hard to hit with and I have not tried flamethrower since the most recent patch, but I still doubt it comes close to HGH conditions, and there in lies my gripe it is hands down our best build at the moment, great damage, great condition removal, can trait for speedy kits and have great mobility..

My biggest concern is that right now 100 nades is our ONLY viable power build. So pretty much after this crap goes live we are going to be forced into condition specs to do any considerable damage. Don’t make me laugh when they talk about improving turrets, they are so kittenty that it would take an entire rework to even make me consider using them.

Okay thought I’d update this a bit, first off I want to say to anyone who plays powermancer and does it well hats off to you! I can honestly say that powermancers absolutely need some love, their damage is subpar when compared to any other burst classes ie. 100 nades, 100 blades, shatter mesmer, and gc theif. And if this is not bad enough they have almost no escape capabilities at all….

I’m not here to bash the necro and in fact I did quite well once I switched over to conditions, however I feel like every class should be able to play a few different ways, and I just don’t see power being good at all on the necro. That is not to say some players cannot make it happen because I’m sure they can, and after playing with Lil Zombify I realize there are good powernecro users out there, but I also feel like he would be three times as deadly on any other burst class, just because of how good of a player he is. I sincerely hope Anet takes a hard look at the handicap they have put on the powernecro and give it some love in the future.

I would also like to thank everyone who contributed to my thread and gave me builds to try out, I tried them all and had okay success over the past few days, but nothing like I had once I swapped to conditions.

Thanks again,

Zaragoz

In wvw rifle may be viable, but other than 100 nades, I just cannot make rifle work in spvp, it just falls to the backburner when compared to hgh elixir pitols build in survivability and damage as well.