Guild Wars 2

nexxe.7081:

GW2 is action combat. It has way more mobility than Tera ever will. Tera locks you in place until the animation is finished, which isn’t very mobile at all. Some skills in GW2 lock us in place, but they are very few and can be cancelled by moving. Not only that, but we get true dodging in GW2, unlike in Tera, where “dodging” is very limited.

The only reason people think Tera’s combat is better is because of the crosshair. Other than that, it’s more static in it’s combat.

Eh, I think Tera’s combat is still more exciting than GW2. In Tera I play a lancer and you actually can react to EVERY attack with a block, whereas in GW2 your “block” skill if you have one, takes 25 seconds to cooldown, and dodge takes a significant amount of time to recharge as well unless you’re built for vigor.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Hey folks,

Now that the HOT is out of the bag, we’re able to update this thread with more details. With the introduction of the new account based mastery system for end-game progression and growth in PvE, we’ll also be re-evaluating our other systems of character progression to ensure they match our over-all pillars and goals for Gw2.

In doing so: we’re going to be removing the current trait unlocking system currently on live and replacing it with a more simplified system that supports where skills-traits-specializations are going in the future. We’ll go into more details between now and the release of HOT on how skills, traits, and specializations will work in the new Gw2 world.

Thank you for all your passionate feedback on this topic – it not only helped our dev team lead to this decision, but has played a large role in helping us define how to build our exciting new account based mastery system for end-game progression in PvE as well.

YESSSSSS!!!!!!!!! I quit playing GW2 for awhile but the hype for the expansion got to me so I decided to check back in and this just made my hype so much better.

samo.1054:

+1
Facts. I’ve been saying that “play how you want” died at the moment when the new Trait System was introduced. Worst call I have seen in MMORPGs in many years.

But what bothers me the most about all this, that there’s people there in Anet that keep making terrible calls for the game, that most people really dislike and even when the community makes a thread with 3400 replies and 160 000 views about how bad a certain change is, Anet refuses to do anything except adding more designs that ruin the game even further.

:S

Couldn’t agree more. It’s hard for me to justify buying stuff from the gem store when I only anticipate the game getting worse.

HtFde.3856:

tofumon.5924:

Diabolus Anur Kaya.8379:

I agree but will even go one step further and call this “new” system a game killer.

It IS a game killer. How do people not get bored leveling from 30 to 80 without traits? What is there to unlock/what is even the point anymore? Without traits you’ve basically gotten all the skills you need by like level 30 to 40.

Not quite – in the old system you had three books to purchase. So you weren’t really done by the time you were 30 or 40 …

Sorry I think you misunderstood. I mean the game in the state as it is now, there’s no sense of progression after level 30 or 40 because you aren’t unlocking anything anymore. Traits aren’t unlocked at a reasonable enough rate to encourage leveling. The entire system feels so slow and cumbersome.

Diabolus Anur Kaya.8379:

I agree but will even go one step further and call this “new” system a game killer.

It IS a game killer. How do people not get bored leveling from 30 to 80 without traits? What is there to unlock/what is even the point anymore? Without traits you’ve basically gotten all the skills you need by like level 30 to 40.

Bernie.8674:

tofumon.5924:

Bernie.8674:

I started playing after this change took place so I never got to benefit from the original trait system. I posted details of my experiences early in the thread, but suffice it to say that I found the system to be extremely confusing and cumbersome. Now that I’m familiar with it, it’s not as confusing, but it’s still extremely cumbersome.

How many traits do you have unlocked now? Did you stop after you finished enough for what you had in mind, or did you want to unlock more so you could get traits to “experiment” with?

On my main character I’ve unlocked most traits simply because I got 100% map completion and am gradually making my way through all the dungeons.

Ah, gotcha. I started right before this trait update so I only have 1 character grandfathered in right now, and I’m considering making a new character but collecting traits sounds like a pain. Did you have to do a lot of waiting around for event chains to start, champions to spawn, etc.? I don’t actually mind doing map completion THAT much because at least there’s always the next heart/POI/vista/skill point on the map to go for, but waiting around for things to happen that might not happen is one thing I CANNOT tolerate.

Guhracie.3419:

You’re missing the point. The point is that the game gave access to all of the traits for under 3g for a year and a half, then when this new system was implemented (to make traits easier to understand, ostensibly), the sliver of information we were given about it crowed about the fact that trait tiers are now freely unlocked, so that you can “dive right in” to the system. It failed to mention that the new system would be linked to buggy, level-inappropriate, boring or time-intensive content. It failed to mention the increase in cost would also require an additional 360 skillpoints and 43g for the same thing that previously cost (and I really can’t overstate this) less than 3g.

I had major issue with this too. I feel like they basically lied to us. They claimed one thing but in reality it was the exact opposite. I got that slimy salesman vibe from reading that trait update description once I read about what the actual changes were.

Mo Mo.1947:

The new unlocks system doesn’t affect newbies because they are TOO NEW.

Alright. Let us know what your friend thinks of the trait unlocking system once she’s level 80 then.

Blude.6812:

tofumon.5924:

This change seems pretty dang awesome actually.

Not if it reduces DAILY laurel aquisition and achievment points.
But it looks pretty, right?

Oh, does it? Sorry I didn’t read all the specifics yet. Hrmmm…

This change seems pretty dang awesome actually.

HOWEVER the trait issues still bug me and I wish they would fix that first before moving on with other things. As it stands that is the most glaring thing keeping me from recommending this game to other people.

Lordphantomhive.1256:

Bit back I made a Pyrrha Nikos from RWBY.

OOO: beautiful

The story missions get a bit harder and the dungeons are kinda hard. Don’t worry things will pick up the pace.

Bernie.8674:

I started playing after this change took place so I never got to benefit from the original trait system. I posted details of my experiences early in the thread, but suffice it to say that I found the system to be extremely confusing and cumbersome. Now that I’m familiar with it, it’s not as confusing, but it’s still extremely cumbersome.

How many traits do you have unlocked now? Did you stop after you finished enough for what you had in mind, or did you want to unlock more so you could get traits to “experiment” with?

Agree. From levels 1 to 30 you’re unlocking skills, so it’s OKAY but not particularly exciting because of the limited number of skills. Then from 30 to 60 all you have to mess around with are adept level traits, so only barely fun. Then finally at 60 you get master level traits and then it finally gets a little more interesting. But it doesn’t get super fun until level 80.

sorudo.9054:

actually they did go that far, a new character needs to grind to level 23 to get all normal skill slots unlocked, pre-september you could unlock them from point one.
i am lucky enough to have enough chances for a lvl 20 scroll but sadly, the game only starts around lvl45, way to much grind to get there.

The game only started being REALLY fun for me at level 80 tbh. No build feels quite right without the full amount of trait points available.

Mo Mo.1947:

If you’re complaining about it affecting gameplay, look at how you would play the game normally going from zone to zone gradually increasing levels.

Uhhh I’m pretty sure there have been posts by players who are leveling up “normally” who have only unlocked like 4 traits by level 80.

I haven’t even played GW1 but after reading about it it already sounds way cooler than GW2. But GW2 is still pretty cool.

Bernie.8674:

tofumon.5924:

I just hit 80 with my character I made pre-patch and the game just suddenly got SO much more fun. Like 200% more fun, not even kidding. Because now I finally actually feel like I have a real character because I have enough trait points and access to all the traits so I can actually build something with traits that work together. Someone making a character post-patch isn’t going to have all the traits to experiment with. They won’t get to experience the joy of trying all the different traits out unless they go out of their way to unlock all of them, which they may or may not enjoy.

I just hit level 80 with a post-patch character and I have a total of 5 traits scattered across various trait lines, one of which I purchased for 50 silver. I have a random grandmaster skill that I didn’t even really want but managed to get through sheer luck by being in the vicinity of a world event. At this point I feel like I really have no idea how this character was intended to be played. I’ll eventually find a guide that directs me to the skills I want and pick and choose for them. That is, if I can muster up the enthusiasm to even play that character anymore.

Yeah see this is why I’m reluctant to make a new character until they fix the trait system. I’ll be stuck to getting enough traits for one build, but then if I want to experiment I have to hunt or pay for a whole new slew of traits.

Conaywea.5062:

lol this OP

All that you said was to reduce the gold inflation , less ways to obtain gold so is easier for most players to get cool stuff and the traits so people have more things to spend gold

Wait are you trying to say the new trait system is easier to acquire traits than the old trait system? Cause it is definitely NOT easier.

Mo Mo.1947:

Hey really I think it could be worse. I don’t particularly like everything about the current trait system but it isn’t a gamebreaker.

It actually very nearly is a gamebreaker…

I just hit 80 with my character I made pre-patch and the game just suddenly got SO much more fun. Like 200% more fun, not even kidding. Because now I finally actually feel like I have a real character because I have enough trait points and access to all the traits so I can actually build something with traits that work together. Someone making a character post-patch isn’t going to have all the traits to experiment with. They won’t get to experience the joy of trying all the different traits out unless they go out of their way to unlock all of them, which they may or may not enjoy. This update made getting traits more difficult than it should be, and playing this game without traits feels like playing 1/2 of what it should be.

I would say it’s worth a shot. The only thing that really bugs me is unlocking the traits now. There’s a few other things that I would complain about but none of them come close to game breaking as much as the traits does.

Agree with you on the gem store thing, but not much on the other stuff. Especially adding elves in. Do you just want Guild Wars 2 to have the same cookie-cutter races that every single other MMO has? I mean, I don’t particularly care for the races that GW2 has right now but adding elves in for no reason other than to have elves would be silly.

It sounds like you really enjoy Tera Online a lot (I understand, I used to play it and I still think it has the best MMO combat ever). This might sound really insensitive, but is there a reason you want GW2 to add elves rather than just playing the elves/dark elves in Tera Online?

Deamhan.9538:

I recently saw a few people I know start playing. I then saw them stop shortly after. They are no longer interested in the game. When I asked them why, their answer boiled down to the following points.

1. Leveling felt like it was taking too long.

The key word here is “felt”. Like the old saying goes “a watched pot never boils”, it’s the idea that they didn’t enjoy it and therefore found it was taking too long. Had they enjoyed it, then it would’ve felt just fine. They enjoyed the personal story but since it can only be done every 10 levels and will only get you 1-3 levels, that is a lot of time spent between ‘chapters’ grinding levels.

I think a major flaw in this game is the pacing in general. The story missions taking 10 levels between each unlock is one part of the problem. Not unlocking traits until level 30 and then waiting 6 levels to get 1 trait is another part of the pacing problem (especially once you consider the unlock requirements as well).

I think the NPE tried to make the pacing more exciting but also messed some things up as well. For example they clumped the skill points and stat upgrades together to make little power spikes to make things more exciting, but in return they had to make them more infrequent. They gave little level up rewards to make leveling up more exciting, except most of the rewards aren’t THAT exciting and the rewards that ACTUALLY matter (skill points, trait points, stat increases) are spread out very thinly.

I think they need to have story missions unlock every 5 levels instead of every 10 levels. And give skill points and stat increases more frequently, and start trait points earlier.

Mo Mo.1947:

Guhracie.3419:

This would be fine if our feedback really mattered. As the trait system nears the one-year mark, however, I am less and less convinced that they’re interested in any of our ideas here. I am actually telling my friends/family that I do not want any gem cards for the holidays this year.

You’ve already stated you’ve given up on this game. Why not give up on the forum? ANet can’t appease everyone’s particular desires. Your opinion doesn’t always line up with others when it comes to what people want and what you want changed.

Becoming unshakably disgruntled at the game and trying to rally everyone to Team Hate-ANet and suggesting everyone quit and join you on steam is not a productive way to get what you want.

Here’s a link about giving CONSTRUCTIVE feedback and criticism:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback/first#post3383470

Mark Katzbach explains exactly how to be heard on the forums. If you want to be heard by ANet, follow his instructions.

There are 50+ pages of constructive feedback in this thread with absolutely no action taken by Anet besides “we are still listening.” Sure yeah some/a lot of the posts are just players complaining, but there are a LOT of posts with actual constructive feedback. At this point players aren’t just complaining about the traits, they’re complaining about the fact that Anet hasn’t done a single thing about the trait system in a year despite all the feedback.

Mo Mo.1947:

IDEA: Traits are made to enhance your skillset. Why not unlock traits similar to the way you used to unlock weapon skills? The more you do a certain type of thing, the closer you get to unlocking a trait.

Example: Necro: Unlock “Training of the Master” trait (which boosts minion damage) after slaying 150 foes with summoned minions.

I really like this idea. This makes unlocking traits way more organic.

I’m a straight guy but I agree when it comes to skimpy armor it would be ideal if both genders were equally represented. This is so I don’t have to feel as guilty when I use the skimpiest female armor possible.

It’d be really cool to have a solo mode. I would like to go through a dungeon by myself at my own pace without messing with other people.

GSNairb.1456:

I know this means nothing by now, but my wife recently wanted to re-make her Elementalist and I was sadly pre-occupied with something else and she ended up deleting her old one (it was about 1.5 years old, so grandfathered in). All she needed was a total makeover kit because she didn’t like the face/coloring and such.

Now she has to go through some stupid trait hunt just to play her character. It was honestly better when we had to pay to re-trait, because at least then we had access to every trait to change.

kitten man you should’ve warned her not to delete her character. That sucks. I’m sorry.

Seera.5916:

tofumon.5924:

masterJP.5048:

I also did’nt like the NPE at first but after trying it I have to say its not that bad. Getting traits now is fun !!!

… no it’s not. We used to get them all by level 60. Now there are some adept traits we can’t even unlock until level 50.

Fun is subjective.

I find Sims 2 and Sims 3 fun. My brother does not. Neither my brother nor I have the correct opinion on whether Sims 2 or Sims 3 is fun or not. Because the question “Is it fun?” doesn’t have a right or wrong answer.

The process of unlocking them can be fun, but arguing that pushing back trait acquisition levels is “fun” is the same as saying “playing the game without traits is more fun than playing them with traits.”

masterJP.5048:

I also did’nt like the NPE at first but after trying it I have to say its not that bad. Getting traits now is fun !!!

… no it’s not. We used to get them all by level 60. Now there are some adept traits we can’t even unlock until level 50.

Not only are the traits individually locked now, but acquisition of trait points and tier unlocks were severely pushed back. You used to unlock the tiers at 11, 40 and 60. Now they unlock at 30, 60, and 80. You also used to get 1 point at every level and 5 points would unlock the next skill. Now 5 points have been condensed into 1 point, but you only unlock 1 every SIX levels. So the game feels a LOT slower/boring now because of the trait system.

I would like the idea of going out into the world to get them for free if I could earn it by doing something that is solo-able and not tedious. Unfortunately I think all the trait unlock requirements aren’t soloable or they’re really tedious/buggy.

Keysha.2815:

jucca.8219:

What does it need to get attention to this issue?
Bad press from gaming sites like Eurogamer, Gamespot, Kotaku?

They have had it over this issue. And it has been dropped.

I don’t remember any bad press about the traits. I tried to find some and all I could find were articles talking about the “exciting trait update.”

jucca.8219:

What does it need to get attention to this issue?
Bad press from gaming sites like Eurogamer, Gamespot, Kotaku?

I wouldn’t mind if the trait system got some bad press. That’s pretty much what bothers me most about this game. Pretty much the only thing stopping me from making new chars and recommending this game to people. If they fixed the trait system I could wholeheartedly tell people the game is fun.

Because using healing signet’s activated ability is an extremely stupid decision.

I wish they could pick up items for you or do anything slightly useful.

Devildoc.6721:

One of the disconnects in philosophy I’m seeing as I do these traits is that players see the traits as being available for the LOWEST possible level, and expect content that unlocks the traits to be appropriate for the lowest possible levels, 30, 60, and 80.

Devs on the other hand see it as a range, and have no problem putting an adept trait in a level 60 area because the traits to them are 30-60, to them you should not expect to run a trait that is earned from a level 55-60 area until you’re level 55.

Players want to slot that trait at level 36.

To me, at level 48, I want to slot a trait that is in a level 55+ zone (Sparkfly Fen, the trait is Profession III)

I think that a good middle ground would be to have all adept traits be under level 50 content, so narrowing the range from 30-50 (maybe 25-50, it should be possible to earn some traits before you can actually use them to spur you on to gain levels so you can use your traits), and all master traits should be 60-75 content (rather than 60-80, maybe even 55-75) and grandmaster traits are all level 75-80 content.

Reducing the range of content that adept traits can be unlocked with isn’t fixing the problem though. Like you said, players want to be able to slot that trait AT level 36. So it would actually make more sense to have adept trait content span from levels 20 to 35, then master from 35 to 60, then grandmaster from 60 to 80. However that could introduce the problem of players having all these traits but being frustrated at not being able to use them. But I still think that would be better than waiting until level 55 to get an adept level trait, cause that is just freaking ridiculous.

Vayne.8563:

tofumon.5924:

Vayne.8563:

Have you tried a mesmer since the NPE…because I have. They did make the world easier to compensate for lack of traits.

So are you saying that you’d rather have easy content and no traits vs. more challenging content with a lot of traits?

Nope. I’m saying that how easy or hard the open world is doesn’t really change my experience while leveling. That is to say, it didn’t change my experience much at all.

Oh, okay, well it changes my experience. No traits is not fun. Lots of traits is fun. That’s the main difference for me between the old and new leveling system.

Vayne.8563:

Have you tried a mesmer since the NPE…because I have. They did make the world easier to compensate for lack of traits.

So are you saying that you’d rather have easy content and no traits vs. more challenging content with a lot of traits?

IndigoSundown.5419:

I believe in letting businesses make whatever business plan or monetizing scheme they desire. They’re going to anyway, so I’m essentially just riding the horse in the direction it’s already going. What I do not believe in is offering to throw more money at them if they don’t perform to my satisfaction. To do so essentially encourages businesses to under-perform, because customers will throw money at them anyway. This is kitten-backwards. It should be that businesses produce, then get paid, not they get paid and then produce.

Well that’s the thing about MMO’s. They have to purposely cut certain things so that they have something worthwhile to sell to you in the cash store. Either that or they have to have a subscription fee. If there’s a subscription fee they’re guaranteed money so they have to just make sure they maintain servers and keep it interesting. If there’s no sub fees they have to earn money through cash shop, but to have good items in the cash shop they have to make the in game stuff slightly less good or slightly less functional. MMO’s with cash shops are inherently designed to almost satisfy the player so that they’ll buy something from the cash store to feel completely satisfied.

I’m only level 66 still so getting to level 80 keeps me going. After that I guess we’ll see. I guess I want really cool gear and to also get better at running dungeons. I’ve only been through a dungeon a couple times and both times I got my kitten whooped.

Devildoc.6721:

What I do like about the system is earning traits through killing elites and champions, jumping puzzles, mini dungeons, and some one off events.

For champions though don’t you have to wait for the champion to spawn and then also have a group to help take it down? I’m still kind of a noob so when I tried to 1v1 a champion I got wrecked.

Guhracie.3419:

I refuse to support a game that took traits away and tried to sell them back to us at more than 500% of the original cost.

This. This really soured the game for me. They slowed down the entire character progression by locking traits to levels 30, then 60, then 80 instead of 15, 40, and 60. I would’ve HAPPILY bought items from the gem store every couple weeks to support the game but they ruined it for me. Also it would help if the gem store actually had cooler items.

Nidome.1365:

Now you hit level 80 with approx. 25-30% of map completion and even less Living Story completion.

I’ve done 31% map completion and personal story through all the level 60 ones and I’m only level 64… I started a tiny bit before the April patch though so I don’t know if that would affect my leveling speed, but either way I don’t think 30% map completion equals level 80.

Einlanzer.1627:

Leveling is fine, they just need to revert the trait system and how weapon skills unlock because it was way more fun and sensible before.

I agree A LOT with this. Traits are what keep leveling interesting for the entire 2nd half of the game and the new trait system ruined that. That’s a huge reason why the leveling feels really boring.

Azzer.8137:

I for one like the new trait system a lot, it’s like in Gw1 where you had to go out in the world and use a signet of capture, but i guess most people today are entitled little idiots who don’t like to work for anything at all.

Also this is insane i know, but i know a way to get a traid withouth doing the event/boss/veteran/whatever.

ok here it comes…..

you can BUY it straight of a trainer! OMG!!!!! so insane!!! whaaaat so you are saying that i can actually just buy them instead of crying like a little kitten ?

Yes that is correct.

Lol sweet so I can grind out 43 gold and 360 skill points to buy all the traits? Or I can get people to wait around with me for a random boss to show up at who knows when?

If you think this is the same as GW1’s skill hunting you’re delusional.

Azzer.8137:

took me 16 days to get my engy to level 80 and unlock all my traits…

How many hours did you have to spend each day waiting for event chains to start to unlock the traits? How many hours did you have to spend on chat getting people to party with you to defeat bosses?

Yoroiookami.3485:

I just think they should probably work on levels 15-30(or 20-30 at least) to make sure players actually enjoy it. It became really tedious. Fixing traits would probably help.

Hell I think fixing traits would solve like 80% of the problem. I think most of the problem is there just isn’t that much to look forward to when it comes to leveling after like level 20 or maybe 30 because you’ve gotten all the skills you need to get and then the only thing to look forward to is traits except traits take forever to unlock the tiers and then another forever to unlock the actual traits.

Zekvich.6701:

The unlocking traits from bosses thing is good I found however it was confusing at first when I went to an area to find either no boss there or that the boss was there but was too difficult to solo or even kill with 3 people, instead I would have to stand in the zone and spam the map channel asking for help which lead to nothing on most occasions meaning I went without the trait.

Soooo how is that “good”? That sounds terrible.

jucca.8219:

In a away, this trait system has same kind of premise that those ’’F2P’’ generic Korean MMO’s where you can play totally free but if you want to use most powerful skills buy it with credit card or do something very tedious.

Yeah that’s the problem now :/ it feels so grindy. Level 36 to 80 is just a giant grind with nothing fun because of the lack of traits. Hell even with the traits unlocked the new trait system still feels like a giant grind since you’re only earning one every 6 levels. The old system was great.

Fernling.1729:

BilboBaggins.5620:

tofumon.5924:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Deamhan.9538:

Wow, 60 pages of pretty much players complaining about the new trait system.

It’s called a hint Anet, take one.

They have. Now I suspect they’re trying not to make a move on this until they can feel things out better than they did the first time. Rather than, you know, rush into a change and botch it up worse.

And before someone suggests that’s not possible, please recall Murphy has laws about this sort of thing, and as bad as things are, they can always be worse.

Alternatively, they might have purposely designed this new trait system to be a big time/gold/skill point sink to make the game last longer and/or encourage lazy players to buy gold.

All the gold in the game can’t buy skill points.

Convert to gems, buy black lion keys and level up with the tomes.
I don’t think it was added for the reasons you quoted though. People were wanting something similar to gw1 and this was their initial attempt.

Well… it’s a kitten poor attempt.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

SpinDie.9105:

Scaling players levels down in a game that is centered around leveling up is ridiculous

well there’s your problem right there… that’s not what this game is centered around at all.

Uhhh well I mean you kinda HAVE to level up if you want to unlock trait points, and traits are a huge part of character building, so it kind of is…

SpinDie.9105:

As a new player, trying to determine if i should fully invest my time into this game. I am hoping someone can re-assure me that my progress to get better is not for nothing.

You get more skills up to level 36, which will make you better. And then you’re also supposed to start getting traits too but they kind of ruined traits so from level 36 to 80 you don’t get much.