Guild Wars 2

The order is Engi Bunker > Tempest Bunker > Chrono Bunker. But it was more trendy to nerf the mesmer.

Finally some common sense put into the MM system.

Well, the matchmaking is obviously unfair, but that is happening all the time in the current system and it’s one of those broken things everybody is complaining about.

Yes, it’s true they are artificially altering the matchmaking (i.e. cheating). But the real problem here is the MM system that favours this behaviour.

Ross Biddle.2367:

If you think class is the determining factor…. XD

Not THE determining factor, but one of them, yes. Unless you think classes are balanced… XD

messiah.1908:

What I love as Mesmer bunker is wop not needed much a long as I have good team
With it i needed another ally so we can swap contest if I am being pressure
And now I see more trap guard so I swap to feedback so more resistance and reflect
Lest hope they won’t nerf resistance reflect and alacrity
Bunker mes is still in the meta house unless viper rev will pushed out to thieves and necros

In my case I swapped well of precog for well of action. Feedback is good too.

Oh, and there are more trap guards now because wop was the countermeasure to guardian traps. They nerfed the counter but not the cause of it…

Right now this scenario is not uncommon:

crouze.3078:

Why having thief in team = loss

Because spvp is about capturing and holding points. And thief skills are not suited for that purpose. That doesn’t mean they cannot contribute to win a match given some good teamwork, or that they are not good in other aspects of the game.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Is it possible to get past ruby in soloq?

Yes, if you play Revenant.

RonDonJonVanDam.1289:

PvP is not fun. The new specs defensive capabilities are so overtuned…

As the new specs offensive capabilities, dont forget about it.

Bring back the Courtyard.

Ok. And now in English please.

Kharr.5746:

PvP players always look for a way to exploit the game and are relentless in doing so.

Only when the system encourages you to do it. Like when exploiting is far more rewarding than fair playing.

Need to /sit in order to free your character. Known bug, not fixed.

SlayerSixx.5763:

The logic? Conquest. Conquest promotes bunkers and always has. Then they introduced bruisers and voila.

I miss the Courtyard map. No point conquering, just pure pvp. It was my favourite arena.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

In real world sports, not everyone who plays high school football makes it to a college team. Not everyone who players at college level gets drafted into the NFL.

Sorry, but in real world, in any real sport, you are not forced to team up with bad players just because you are good, or the opposite.

Nyktalgia.5401:

I have nothing against in 50/50 w/l, but this thingie is getting a bit tiresome. Anet said that this system will courage ppl to play better when they lose.

I don’t see how this system will encourage to play better. I you play good (above the average), then you are MM punished in order to force a 50% w/l. Punishment is not a good way of encouragement. More like the opposite.

Juba.8406:

Profession MMR is disabled.

Spartacus.3192:

Class is not used for MMR but they still look at which classes are played most, which builds/traits used most to determine popularity etc.

None of those responses answer the OP question. OP is not asking if classes are MMR enabled or if they are considering classes/builds popularity, but about class win ratio which is different factor. If anybody knows whether a class victory ratio table exists I’m also interested to know.

Yes, you need the elite specs. That’s the reason why they exist.

Yes, you can also play preHoT and do fine, but not at the pro level.

Sorel.4870:

I agree. I think the skill would be much better if it was insta-cast, on a 75s CD. That would be on line with other skills like Arcane Shield.

Well, you are right from the design point of view, but the idea of the nerfing was not to make it skill consistent, but to satisfy the all the whining. So successful nerfing.

messiah.1908:

Engi nerf train is on your way

Engi nerf is not coming for now becuase that is not a trendy whining, as the mesmer nerf was.

Just wanted to remember you that the archetypes in this game do not work in a paper/scissors/rock scheme. This is not classic rpg.

posthumecaver.6473:

All the skill-less abilities should disappear

But… but that would imply to remove the DH comletely!

I dont like this system either. Something like this doesn’t happen in the matchups for any real sport competition. Randoming would be more fair.

Silverkey.2078:

venusiano.8246:

You can remove bunker mesmer from the meta now. It’s gone. Congratulations, goal achieved.

I doubt it… I am mesmer main, playing bunker chrono since the first beta week-end, yet I am very happy with those changes.

Hmm after testing I have to say that you are actually right. My build was not bunker (but I was using shield + well of precog) and noticed that the nerf really affected my gameplay. So now I just switched to full bunker mesmer and I’m doing fine again. Seem like going full bunker is now the only option left for me.

Nice try. Except for the fact that the lord easily walks away from the distortion field. Or any other for that matter.

That is no the solution. The solution is to change a MMR system that is wrong and encourages MMR tanking.

You can remove bunker mesmer from the meta now. It’s gone. Congratulations, goal achieved.

PowerBottom.5796:

so? there are plenty of very strong alternatives…. Mesmer will just be a little less bunkery, but likely more utility or dmg.

Actually the nerfing in blocking and Well not only affecs the Bunker Mesmer, but any chronomancer build (I didn’t play Bunker). Most chronos alternatives are now weaker in general than they were before. And no, the damage has not increased. Mesmer never was a high dps class.

AFAIK the system for soloQ is simple: if you are a good player, you are punished with bad team mates hand harder opponents. If you are a bad player, you are rewared with good team mates and easier opponents. Can it be more unfair?

Drennon.7190:

ehh mesmer is still unkillable. it’s still the most annoying thing in the game to fight.

As I mentioned in another thread, some people will still (and always be) unhappy with the mesmer unless they can insta kill them… Bunker mesmers are not only unable to do any damage but now they can also screw up their whole party whenever they use their bunkering skills… and some people are still unhappy with it.

Browrain.7346:

It’s not a bug or anything. It’s intended. Since you were partied with him, it penalizes you too. The other people on your team (but not in your party) gained a pip. Ik it sounds flawed, but this is the system they have in place.

It this is intended, it’s obviously wrong (you should not be punished for the nerkwork issues of your friend) and in programming terms this should probably be very easy to solve.

I’ve been finding all the complains about the bunker mesmer a bit weird, because people complaining about it never mention the other bunkers in game (ele, engi… that are actually better bunkers since they can also do some actual damage while bunkering), or how the bunkering is there to counter the classes that can kill you within 1 second.

Until I read this, and understood it all:

vlad.4871:

the class should be disabled until the balance patch comes out,EASy.

This actually express a lot, because it is the real intention of lots of people behind all this whinning. Some people just don’t want the mesmer to be in this game. And this is happening since game lauch: that explains why the mesmer has been in a non-stop nerfing train since launch. Evety time a viable build appears, it get nerfed to oblivion due to whinning. Seems like some people is still afraid of what they don’t understand.

Obindo.6802:

Elite specs were supposed to be an alternate way of playing the professions, not stronger, nor weaker.

Not really. Elite specs were there to make players buy the HoT expansion. And so they had to offer something better than the current specs. Remember this is a business after all.

Finally a good thread about class balance that contemplates the whole picture (that you cannot nerf the bunking without also nerfing the damaging, and the other way round).

Anyways I don’t think Anet is going to alter the class balance very much while there’s a league going on. They will possibly wait till season is off, not to alter the competition too much.

You could give every other class a 1 shot button to insta-kill any mesmers around and they will still not be happy.

The only reason why bunker classes exist is because there are classes like DH that can take you down in 1 sec, and viceversa. They are in symbiosis. You can’t get rid of one without the other one.

Well, I’ve learn that the hardest verbal abuse comes from the dumbest people in game. In the same way that most of the players that use to call other players “noobs” are actually newbies themselves, you’ll hardly see a smart player using verbal abuse.

Schurge.5194:

If you are better then me don’t patronize me by telling me I put up a good fight…

That is exactly the reason to say it. It’s the final humilliation.

To me it would have been more consistent if Ranger was given the DragonHunter Role, and the Guardian was given the current Druid Role. But anyways.

Crinn.7864:

I understand why the matchmaker pushes 50% w/l.

The problem is: matchmaker should not really push for 50% W/L, because it does so by punishing the good players and rewarding the bad ones. And that is not only unfair but leads to system exploit (since low MMR is the way to progress).

Norrath.5910:

I didn’t blame these players at first, now I do.

Well, they didn’t invent the system. They may not be fair playing, but they also are not doing anything illegal AFAIK. Anet has to remove/change the MMR system. That’s all.

Problem is the way the system works is wrong. They have to change/remove the current MMR tanking system or people will continue exploiting it one way or another.

dominik.9721:

faker.7253:

Just let the point capping or decapping while distortion is up. Like every other invul skill (renewed focus, elixir, mistform,…)

^ This
Every other class is losing the cap-point when invulnerability is used and the mesmer with the most access to it doesn’t.

Hmm actually it does… This whole bunker mesmer discussion is the biggest nonsense in this forum in a lot of time (specially considering that other classes can bunk better).

Astralporing.1957:

It is designed in such a way, that cheating and manipulating the system (while deplorable) is the only reasonable way to progress through it.

Seems like you nailed it.

There’s no discussion. Bunker mesmer can’t kill a thing and can’t capture points for long (unless faced by kittens).

Ele or Engi playing bunker easily own Mesmer. They can actually produce damage while bunking.

This matchmaking was a funny one too:

What is a bit absurd is the concept design of DH. A plate armour class playing the ranger role (bow + traps) equally good if not better than the ranger itself (you know, you don’t put on a heavy armour if your main weapon is a ranged one). Other than that, they are both fine.

When you face a bunker mesmer, first you can laugh at their miserable damage. Then you just kite him inside the point eventually hitting him. Sonner or later they will use distortion and lose the point holding, little by little. To finally kill him basically depends on who else arrive first: your friends or his friends.