Guild Wars 2

maddoctor.2738:

Astralporing.1957:

Oh, come on, it has been over a year since HoT now. It’s not like the decision to buy HoT had to be made before launch.

And how did they find out about raid accessibility without actually playing the game? They don’t even know if they can handle the Raid or not. I’m not sure if Raid accessibility qualifies as a reason not to buy an expansion, I mean even if the Raids aren’t accessible they still have the rest of the expansion to play.

Oh, i agree about that part of your post – the definition of a “raider” is definitely different for everyone here, and without agreeing on it first we can’t really have a meaningful discussion about size of the raider community.

Indeed.

Though too bad about the archival data not being available. I had hoped for more detailed info.

Actually gw2efficiency has a much better statistic, it clearly gathers all the boss kill achievements and you can see in your achievement tab if you’ve killed a boss or not. If they expose that in graph form they could show us how many players actually killed a boss, including challenge mote versions. That would be a really valuable statistic.

That’s how WoW measures their raiding population, by counting how many players have boss kill achievements, it’s much more reliable and effective than counting a currency. It could help with accessibility too if that info was exposed somehow, showing you have an achievement (and especially the challenge mote achievement) should bypass any LI requirements easily. For example, a player that killed KC with the challenge mote, is likely more experienced at fighting KC than a player with 200+ LI that got them by farming VG or Escort.

Of course in those WoW statistics they also used subscriber numbers to have an accurate representation of the total playerbase, while those numbers were available. This meant that the percentage of Raiders was accurate enough. Now that subscriber numbers aren’t available they use different statistics to find out how many players are still playing to compare the raiders with the actual total.

The next problem after finding out the number of players who are raiding, is finding the number to compare them with, and that might prove much harder to come by, at least there is no statistic on gw2eff that you can use for that.

I agree, that the actual gw2eff-statistic is limited, if we talk about the accuracy of our statistic statements. Achievment-boss kill percentage values + li percentage values would make the picture of the raidcommunity-size more accurate. Maybe we should ask efficiency, if they can provide this feature in the future development. Ofcourse it would be betterr to know the number of active players, but gw2 has no subscription- modell and we have to deal with that fact. I dont think, that anet would give us these numbers.

maddoctor.2738:

worminator.5174:

error in measurement

You forgot to exclude those who didn’t buy Heart of Thorns from the total.
You forgot to exclude those who stopped playing Heart of Thorns before the release of Raids.
You forgot to exclude those who do not have an elite spec unlocked yet.
You forgot to exclude new players with little play time that do not even have Exotic gear.

There are more but I’ll stop here.

Why did i forgot them? I just showed the number of players (using gw2e as one of the only statistic we have access to), who played raid content. Those without hots (without elite specs, little play time, stopped playing (i mentioned inactive players by the way)) of course never played raids. Why? they are locked for them. Whats your point here? Even people without hots can be part of gw2e or the whole player base. But that was never the point. Those you mentioned are those, who have zero li. I mentioned it.
The Threadopener asked, if the raid community is small or big. I showed, that we have some hints, that the raid community is small, maybe not more von 10 to 20% of the playerbase, maybe even less than 10 % .
Bring something constructive to the discussion or think atleast twice before you waste our time.

Oh i also forgot all people who lost their access to the internet. This must be your next point.
But hey, i will stop here.

I cannot give a correct number, but i can give a hint about the percentage value of players, who are raiding.
Gw2efficency has actuell about ca. 112 000 players, who are using it. If you look at the percentage value of players with legendary insight, then you get atleast a hint about the number of raiders.

( notice, that people, who are using it are probably longtime gw2 players, because a newbie will more often not use a tool like this)

About 70 % of the efficiency-users have zero li. The never tried or atleast never killed a raidboss. ( about 78 400 players)

The highest 80 % of the player base has 4 li (legendary insight). 4li means nothing. They tried maybe escort and stopped to play raids after it.

The highest 10% of the playerbase with li in their inventory/bank have up to 35 li (new to raids, but they maybe continoue to play raids)
( about 11 000 ppl)

The highest 5% of the playerbase with li have about 130 li. They should be raiding now some months atleast, or with breaks over a longer time.
(about 5500 people).

Dont forget: This is not the whole playerbase from gw2. Also we dont know, how many accounts in this statistic are active or inactive. Somebody with 200 li can also be someone, who stopped playing gw2.
But remember: People, who are using gw2efficiency are probably not just newbies, but more often veterans of the playerbase.

So the percentage value of the whole playerbase compared to gw2efficiency should be even lower.

error in measurement:

-second ( third…) accounts: one person has two or more accounts registered at gw2efficiency

-not every player is interested/ knows about efficiency. People using using such tools are most likly persons, who are investing more time into gw2 or atleast are more often interested in it.

-gw2efficiency doesnt make a difference between inactive or active accounts

Following to the anets poll my solution for nightcapping.

1. We determine that time zones stop to exist.
2. The earth is a flat. Nobody can exist at the dark bottom of the earth.

Problem solved.

Does anybody know if we already got the reward for the guild team ladder or how we get the reward?

Lucifer.7289:

Thief’s can carry conquests pugs easier than most classes. Thief still have the highest mobility in the game and constant decap/cap are easy wins.

The main thing Thief struggles with right now is combat, it can’t really 1v1 anything right now, every elite spec pretty much can do large sums of dmg while having insane survivability. Once Daredevils dodges are up they have to disengage if w/e they are fighting is not dead.

Combat wise Thief contribute very little to team fights and other class do what they do better.

But pugs are really stupid and if they are giving up matches because they have a thief on their team, they are just bad. Thief mobility can carry games if the person playing Thief has a half a brain.

But let’s be real being a decap/cap/rezbot is boring as hell after a while. Hopefully some changes and tuning to the other classes in Jan make things better. Power Shiro Rev is pretty much a heavy armor Thief on steroids.

1.Speaking about soloquing thieves:(i have seen so many of them)
I dont know why thieves dont get it. Yes you have the highest mobility, but it doesnt matter if the enemy is contesting all three points with high sustain classes. You cannot decap anything then. Thief as an +1 roamer is also useless most of the time. His burst is not enough. He cannot hold points, he cannot 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 or 4v4 well. Last thing he could do is stealth res, but hey one scrapper and also this is useless. Thieves are only good if the enemy team plays like hot joiner. Dont get me wrong, maybe there are builds, that could do well, but until now i only see the same old d/p 90% of the time.

2. Speaking about thief in 5 premade
Thieves can be good if they get the support of their team to do their job and for this you need a proper communication. And no, chat is not a proper communication.

Dont get me wrong, i play with any soloqiung thief in my team,i dont say anything before or after the match, but its frustrating to know, that the chance of winning is lower because of him. I praise every thief, who is doing is job well, but im getting those thieves not really often. Only chance to increase the winning chance: Enemy has also an thief or maybe even worse an warrior.
Its not the fault of the thief-players in the first place. Its anets fault. But in second place i must blame most(not all!) of the soloquing thieves for not realizing, that many complains about thieves these days are not only cry, but also have some truth in it.
Even ranger was in a better state pre-addon than thief these days. We could only 1v1 and small fights on sidepoints well, but its more than thieves can do well these days.
So, and now all thieves can flame me, but dont forget that i said atleast some good thing about thief: they are better than warrior.

“All trolls be ignored”. Made my day.
1. Simple way to improve: Second Weapon set.
2. As i have seen your gameplay i think you use markmanship, survival, and druid. Next time please post your whole build together with your video.
3. You have no defense against power specs. Dont run into lichfrom. Wait until its over.
4. Be aware, that your opponent necro was incredible bad. Against good opponent you NEAD your second weapon.
5. your ping at 7:30 was a bad advice. Be happy, that your mate did not reacted to it. Holding 2 points is enough and your opponent team could not rotate.
6. 1:00 to 2:00: You have your avatar ready and you didnt used it to support your mate. Simple advice: Support your mate.
7. Ignore enemy treb when your team is leading and 3 enemys are in downstate
8. Use petswap more often. As i can see you only used it 1 or 2 times in the whole match.

Dirame.8521:

TAKE ALL THE CLEANSES.

Healing Spring. Empathic Bond, Signet of Renewal, Druidic Clarity ALL OF THEM

Poor thing and in the end true.

Emphatic Bond? Another random, passive condioncleanse. Made my day. Did you said pet should kill the rev. Pet is dead in teamfight before. Dead pet= Zero condicleanse. Most rangers didnt took this trait pre addon? Why? Its random! Now we take it because their is no other option. Wilderness knowledge didnt work well with druid.

tarcheg.4872:

worminator.5174:

Try druid and you will make the experience that you can do nothing. Laughed when i saw your list. Tempest? Diamond Skin+ Shout! Problem solved. Condireaper? Bonncoruption + Conditransfer! Problem solved. Chrono? (Maybe bunker) Perma evade+block! Problem solved. And no, i will not shut up. Its called discussion. Try to be nice and let other people share their opinion.

Sure, discussion is good but tbh I don’t see your point.

You say rev gets beaten by (at least) 3 classes but because the class you play is at a disadvantage against rev, rev needs a nerf? You didn’t say anything about nerfs, I know, but that’s what I’m getting when reading the first sentence of your post.

If you want a discussion then maybe start by explaining why you can’t do anything and what you would change.

I have made the experience that druids can do quite well against revs by just focusing on surviving (druids have a bunch of condi removal and healing) and let their pet do the damage.

Did i mentioned one time that i asked for nerf? I only said that for some classes its not a l2p issue, its just an hard counter.

Let the pet kill him? Right, thats skillful gameplay to let the ai do the work, not. And we talk about pvp, not wvw. People rotate, capping matters. How long does it take until another mate join the rev? Maybe i get the cap after 3 minutes if i let the pet do the work. Great idea!

Bunch of condiremoval? Made me laugh. Glyphs have delay and iam forced to stand in it, signet has an 60s cooldown, druid condiremove gets hardcountered by boonremove from rev. Zero regen= zero af= zero condiremove. The only thing i want to state is, that the op thinks he is so good, but in the end he just had better options with his classes. Saying to the rest “shut up” because he have countermechanics is my problem. So yes my first sentence was intended as i wrote it. OP should play druid and recognize, that not only skill, but also classmechanic matters. And maybe, just maybe, he will see that he got carried one or two times by his build, and not by his personal skill. cheers

And to be objective: The most played class in eu tournaments is (condi)-revanent. OP? Maybe not! Unbalanced compared to other classes? Maybe! Tell me why many esl groups take 2 condirevs in their teamcomp? Why cannot any other class take the place of the second condirev?

Like the title says i want to ask, how you can deal with the actual Metabuilds for Reaper and Revanent. I feel like iam forced as druid to stay out of teamfights. I tried to use 3 full condicleanses, i tried to cc them (works against bad reapers), but in the long run i cannot see a chance to be usefull in an teamcomp for now. As druid you cannot cleanse enough, dodge enough or heal enough. Chain-CCing a condirevanent is nearly impossible and immoblize doesnt work. Running also doesnt work even with staff and gs, because he is able to chase us to death with his shadowsteps.

My only solution: Bring shouttempest or another condirev into your team. Problem. Who needs druid then. My conclusion: Nobody.
For now i thinking about playing tempest after playing ranger for 2 years. Condimeta kills druid, but atleast we were part of it for 2 months. cheers.

Try druid and you will make the experience that you can do nothing. Laughed when i saw your list. Tempest? Diamond Skin+ Shout! Problem solved. Condireaper? Bonncoruption + Conditransfer! Problem solved. Chrono? (Maybe bunker) Perma evade+block! Problem solved. And no, i will not shut up. Its called discussion. Try to be nice and let other people share their opinion.

Pet DPS Choice
1.When it comes to pet dmg than actually bristleback is in an good spot. But you must know that bristleback need to hit with his f2 to be a good dd-pet. The enemy should not stand above or under the bristleback if f2 should hit the enemy
2.Cats dealing high (singletarget) dmg. If you have no source of fury, than you should take the tiger. In groups with enough fury the junglestalker with his might can be of use. In an group with enough might and fury you should take lynx, because it deals additinal bleeding and the f2 is also an leapfinisher(additonal burning or poision with combofields).
3. Drakes can also be interessting for trashmobs, or if you want to utilize the explofinsiher. Drakes can hit more targets, but their dmg is lower than cat- or bristleback- dmg.
Pet CC Choice
Wolf with aoe fear is strong in pvp, also the smokescale because of good burst, short knockdown cd and smokefield. Also the kytra-canine can be a good choice because of immobilze. CC can be usefull in raids, if you need to break stunbars.

As you can see the petchoice depends on the situation.

PS too OP: Their is nearly no effective usage for bears. Not even the condicleanse of brownbear is worth using it. PPLLEEAASSEE dont become another bearbow-ranger.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

I get the feeling there isn’t QA testing to be honest.

Agree. I noticed this bug many times. Even 10 minutes stafftesting would be enough.
Conclusion: Either QA Testing doesnt exist or is not doing his job properly.

Ardenwolfe.8590:

Are you serious? 16K now? God….

Serious. Bristle is now in an league with cats. But interessting is the kind of way anet uses words to adress their changes. Its never a nerf. Sometimes they call it increase of cd or reduce of dmg, but when the nerf hits a 50% reduction then they call it bugfixing or an issue. Bugfixing sounds more positive. Oh, the power of words.

Worst thing about it: This bug is old, but they left it until its now unplayable. Good thing: Now they cannot ignore it anymore.

Daharahj.1325:

• Added a 12 second ICD to Weapon Swap after using Ancestral Grace.

No, no. Maybe this bug is a new rangerfeature. Stand still and become one with nature. For that reason you must be killed, but than you become a real (dead) celestial avatar.

Already noticed it. 50% hp reduce. From 32k too 16k hp. But dont be too sad about this. We get more bristleback nerfs in the near future. Especially the f2 will be next. Sad but true.

Ryan.9387:

Go for the Eyes: Fixed an issue that allowed this ability to trigger blindness at an incredibly fast rate. This trait now has a 12-second internal cooldown.

“Incredibly Fast Rate” – TIL Incredibly fast is once every 4s

And dont let us forget. Ele can spam blinds with sandstorm faster than 4 seconds. And ranger could not spam it every 4 seconds, its was 4.5 seconds + 0,5 s casttime, strong, but not broken. Hmm did i forgot the thief with pistol 5? I have no problem with balancing, but just shaving one class is not called balancing. Is our dev the only one who should nerf things? Maybe 12 is our devs favorite number.

I died now 2 times because of this bug. You can break it with another movingskill like gs 5 or gs3 or you use /dance. Especially /dance sounds funny, but iam just desperate to survive.

Same problem on my side. Fix and pls fast.

Actual i get this old bug after patch more often. I use Staff 3(druid), swap weapon while in animation and then i cannot move an inch. This is deadly for pvp and this bug lasts now for several weeks. Before our patch today i could atleast dodge to move again, now even this is not working.

Your thoughts and experience with this?

PS to dev: This is a big problem for PvP! I wait for a fix for several weeks and now its getting worse. And a mesmer friend told me that he also knew this bug.

Actual i get this old bug after patch more often. I use Staff 3, swap weapon while in animation and then i cannot move an inch. This is deadly for pvp and this bug lasts now for several weeks. Before our patch today i could atleast dodge to move again, now even this is not working.

Your thoughts and experience with this?

PS to dev: This is a big problem for PvP! I wait for a fix for several weeks and now its getting worse.

Staff 4:
Staff 4, if you move into it yourself, removes cripple, but it doesnt remove chill
Bristleback F2:
Tooltipps says it should hit 15 times. In reality it hits the enemy 20 times.
Either the tooltip is wrong, or the number of hits. In terms of actual damage i think the 20 hits are wrong.

Omg, stop bumping up your own topic. Deal with it when nobody wants to discuss your thoughts any further. And in the end you dont want to discuss, you just want that we notice that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Denial of reality.

Code of Conduct

•Do not spam. This includes bumping threads or making posts that lack content.

PvP-View
Most of the time in avatar is wasted with knockbacks? Seriously use stabilty BEFORE you enter the avatar or use the avatar 5 right after you cast the avatar form to get
2 stability for a healburst and DONT waste your full 15 seconds in the avatar form.
You want to see a viable pvp build. Until now you could seen some viable druidbuilds in pvp, if you really want to learn something. But i think you dont want to learn, you just want to state that just your opinion is the one and only truth. Show that iam wrong and look at the esl matches. But some warning: you have to change your opinion after seeing these matches . I also offer you to show you my druidbuild and gameplay ingame. Just send me an ingame message and i add you and contact you if i see you ingame.

For Raids
I got no own experience in raids with druid (i did not try until now), but i have seen plenty of successful druid raidvideos. They prove that there must be a good and viable Raid-druid. If not raids would not take them.

For wvw
I even can share a proper wvw druidbuild, but nowadays roaming is not really funny. You walk across the map and see nobody.

The existence of PvP Missions itself is not the problem. My PvP- Guild is happy to get a chance to build our Guíldhall without going to PvE. The real problem are Guildmissions which dont encourage to play successful.
Summoning Heros is one example, personal score is another one. Especially personalscore missions are annoying. Most of the time our guild decided the outcome of the match to early, personal score was not even near the points. Personal score can be an mission that punish good teamplay. And even in close matches you get punished after 15 minutes if both sides where fighting in an balanced match on three notes.
In the end we also made this personal score missions, but only because we activated the score-missions permanently the whole week every match. At some point you can make this mission random.

Conclusion: PvP Missions are good, but only the rankpoint- and “win the match”-missions. Personalscore and hero-missions can be a reason to stop trying to win a match as good as possible. Maybe they should change these mission to a "stomping mission or an “capping mission”. Or for stronghold some kind of mission like “win your match without loosing both/one door on your side”

Sol.4310:

It’s toooooo strong now, just take Natural Healing + We Heal As One! and you can build full AF in under 10 seconds……

Not sure what to say maybe nerf the amount of AF you get from Healing. I do like the idea of being able to build it differently now.

Its to strong,… but really, you take natural healing just for astral force. Natural healing is useless compared to the other traits you can choose. Aoe-Weekness helps alot in teamfights and i prefer the greatsword because fury and cd-reduction is still stronger. I dont care if astral force is ready within 9 or 13 seconds. And come on, under 10 seconds… . You care about it while you know that af has an cd of 10 seconds.
An stunbreak and an fullcondicleanse between 10 and 32 seconds (depending on the situation, allies around, enemys around etc.) should bother you more. And this trait is a adept trait. Maybe we should change it with grace of land, so we must choose between druid clarity and ancient seeds.

Before the patch druid clarity was fine. You could not spam it because you had to wait for the moment, when your team needed the avatar healing. Thats not necessary anymore. Avatar is ready in teamfights every 10 seconds.

The other solution could be, in my opinion, that you reduce the number of the removed conditions, maybe to 4 or something like that.

To our dev: Thanks for your work. Synergy with regen is great and i finally see some connections to the core ranger, especially nature magic, beastmastery and wilderness survival.

Tornupto.2304:

worminator.5174:

Or maybe increase the avatar cd a bit. Even 15 seconds would be strong (or even 20 seconds, pls dont throw stones at me ).

Edit: View from PvP and i main and love ranger since launch.

That would kill it for raids. You need your heals ready when an ally needs them. 20s would be far too much, 10 sec are ok.

Ok, thats a point. Maybe in the last three ranger years i learned, that i cannot have something nice. Maybe they just reduce the number of conditioncleanse from 13 to 3 or 5 instead of touching the avatar cd. This would give a conditionbuild still a chance to outplay a druid.

aB EXT.1287:

Regen (on anyone you put it on) now charges AF. If you use WHaO /w BM trait it’s a full bar for 1 heal if you catch 1/2 allies with it.

2 Allies + Pet + rune of durability + WHaO + Timbering Sound = Full AF bar (without NM)

Maybe they should remove now, that we got 50% of AF if we leave Avatar earlier. I love the new changes, but im scared that the nerfhammer will hit us. Dont forget: Just with that we got a stunbreaker and a full condicleanse every 13 to 14 seconds. Or maybe increase the avatar cd a bit. Even 15 seconds would be strong (or even 20 seconds, pls dont throw stones at me ).

Edit: View from PvP and i main and love ranger since launch.

Booms.3952:

worminator.5174:

Booms.3952:

worminator.5174:

Ofcourse they are defeatable, even in 1v1. But it does not change the fact that its not balanced. High reward, medium/low risk. Show me another class that can destroy a whole teamfight while just casting brainless all traps at once. And because of aegis, blocks, invuln. and reflect you also have medium sustain.
Compare it with a shatter mesmer. Damage can be the same, but if you fail you are in downstate in just a few seconds, with or without ctrl+t. Thats the different.
And dont forget this incredible dmg of lb 2 with an 4 seconds cd. You can dodge it twice in 10 seconds, but what will you do then. Oh and i forgot that its piercing (without any trait).
Conclusion: User got carried by his build.

Druid, reaper, herald, tempest are all better than DH with similar “low medium risk high reward” and scrapper is about equal. Mesmer has always required higher level positioning, however it’s not “if you fail you are in downstate in a second”. With shield and continuum split as well as evade well, they actually have decent survivability. Sure you expect them to die sooner than other classes, but they also can moa, timewarp or gravity well TWICE within 5 seconds if they wanted to. And they can burn for 10-12k with almost no setup besides positioning. DH “burst”? Well maybe 10k on a squishy if you land a true shot and a test of faith in melee assuming theres no projectile deflection up at some point (there always is when someone is getting cc’d). Chrono gets countered by DH to some degree that is true. However that’s just one class and just means at least DH is decent at SOMETHING right now.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

The ideal nerf for them would be along the lines of:
1) Reduce dmg of traps by ~15%.
2) Set all traps cast-time to 1 sec and the elite one 1.5 sec.
3) Remove the daze from traps
4) Decrease the duration of the boons (7 seconds of protection, seriously?)
5) Decrease healing of the F2 skill. Without any healing power, core guardian’s F2 heals around 1600 I think and the new ones almost double of that. That should be reduced to core’s standard.
5) F3 is bugged. It blocks unblockable skills as well. Fix that please.

You would simply never see another DH again in your lifetime if those changes went through.

Denial of reality? I never denied that the other classes also have low risk, but they cannot deal the same dmg + pulsing aoe cc atonce. DH dies easily in coordinated burst, mesmer dies in the same situation without coordinated burst and double moa requires really not too much skill, but trap dh is still cheaper.:)
Druid for example has to outplay you and he cannot burst a whole team at once. Their roll is to support, and they will not be of any use if their team doesnt deals the dmg that the druid cannot make.

About Chrono (i have spoken about mesmer before, not chrono). Ofcourse Chrono provides many kinds of quality when it comes to survivability and they can have a great impact in teamfights. But atleast the player behind the pc needs just a small knowledge of pvp. I have seen so many bad guards this weekend who were able to kill ppl in teamfights. (They ignored my reflectionwall and didnt stop to spam lb skills) My problem with this build: These ppl. would have lost preaddon with viable guardbuilds. Why? Build good, gamer bad.
Now they win to easy! Why? Build broken unbalanced, gamer still bad.

I understand that DH has a low skill floor and I understand your MMR is low so you’re frustrated about them. However, you can’t nerf DH because “it’s cheese”; it actually has to be OP. DD ele turned bad players into okay players the same way DH did, but DD ele was actually overpowered as well for the top players too. DH is just not the same… Turret engis got nerfed because they made extremely bad players look GOOD, unlike DH which make extremely bad players look not that bad. So basically, L2P and don’t nerf because you don’t understand how to play the game.

Low MMR? This can only come from somebody who say about himself that he is the Nummer 1 Guardian NA. I would say iam mid MMR, maybe a bit higher. And defending an unbalanced build(you could never give us a proper argument against it) i doubt you are near top 10 guards.

Booms.3952:

worminator.5174:

Ofcourse they are defeatable, even in 1v1. But it does not change the fact that its not balanced. High reward, medium/low risk. Show me another class that can destroy a whole teamfight while just casting brainless all traps at once. And because of aegis, blocks, invuln. and reflect you also have medium sustain.
Compare it with a shatter mesmer. Damage can be the same, but if you fail you are in downstate in just a few seconds, with or without ctrl+t. Thats the different.
And dont forget this incredible dmg of lb 2 with an 4 seconds cd. You can dodge it twice in 10 seconds, but what will you do then. Oh and i forgot that its piercing (without any trait).
Conclusion: User got carried by his build.

Druid, reaper, herald, tempest are all better than DH with similar “low medium risk high reward” and scrapper is about equal. Mesmer has always required higher level positioning, however it’s not “if you fail you are in downstate in a second”. With shield and continuum split as well as evade well, they actually have decent survivability. Sure you expect them to die sooner than other classes, but they also can moa, timewarp or gravity well TWICE within 5 seconds if they wanted to. And they can burn for 10-12k with almost no setup besides positioning. DH “burst”? Well maybe 10k on a squishy if you land a true shot and a test of faith in melee assuming theres no projectile deflection up at some point (there always is when someone is getting cc’d). Chrono gets countered by DH to some degree that is true. However that’s just one class and just means at least DH is decent at SOMETHING right now.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

The ideal nerf for them would be along the lines of:
1) Reduce dmg of traps by ~15%.
2) Set all traps cast-time to 1 sec and the elite one 1.5 sec.
3) Remove the daze from traps
4) Decrease the duration of the boons (7 seconds of protection, seriously?)
5) Decrease healing of the F2 skill. Without any healing power, core guardian’s F2 heals around 1600 I think and the new ones almost double of that. That should be reduced to core’s standard.
5) F3 is bugged. It blocks unblockable skills as well. Fix that please.

You would simply never see another DH again in your lifetime if those changes went through.

Denial of reality? I never denied that the other classes also have low risk, but they cannot deal the same dmg + pulsing aoe cc atonce. DH dies easily in coordinated burst, mesmer dies in the same situation without coordinated burst and double moa requires really not too much skill, but trap dh is still cheaper.:)
Druid for example has to outplay you and he cannot burst a whole team at once. Their roll is to support, and they will not be of any use if their team doesnt deals the dmg that the druid cannot make.

About Chrono (i have spoken about mesmer before, not chrono). Ofcourse Chrono provides many kinds of quality when it comes to survivability and they can have a great impact in teamfights. But atleast the player behind the pc needs just a small knowledge of pvp. I have seen so many bad guards this weekend who were able to kill ppl in teamfights. (They ignored my reflectionwall and didnt stop to spam lb skills) My problem with this build: These ppl. would have lost preaddon with viable guardbuilds. Why? Build good, gamer bad.
Now they win to easy! Why? Build broken unbalanced, gamer still bad.

Edit: I dont say that iam a top 100 pvper, but i got atleast sometimes got qued in pvp with some esl-gamers. Maybe i would be about rank 300 if the old leaderboards still would be active.

Ofcourse they are defeatable, even in 1v1.I enjoyed those surprised trapguards in downstate who had to face the truth, that they are just bad balance exploiter and will miss their flaming after they got defeated. But it does not change the fact that its not balanced. High reward, medium/low risk. Show me another class that can destroy a whole teamfight while just casting brainless all traps at once. And because of aegis, blocks, invuln. and reflect you also have medium sustain.
Compare it with a shatter mesmer. Damage can be the same, but if you fail you are in downstate in just a few seconds, with or without ctrl+t. Thats the different.
And dont forget this incredible dmg of lb 2 with an 4 seconds cd. You can dodge it twice in 10 seconds, but what will you do then. Oh and i forgot that its piercing (without any trait).
Conclusion: User got carried by his build.

You know nobody would mind druid cc if actually dh would abuse his traps in such a boring and skillless kind of way. DH abuse this and druid should be punished for this too? We dont have much usefull grandmastertraits. Lingering Light was before nerf op, now its useless. Gracing land is a pve-trait. Ancient seed is most of the time also useless, but still better then the other two traits. CD to 15 seconds? Ok, then give us something in exchange. And in the end dh, reaper, chrono, tempest, warrior, and scrapper are already laughing about immobilize.
What is the real balance issue here: Pulsing CC+ massive dmg+ a good sustain+ nearly no skillanimation is inbalanced. Guard brings sustain even with his core-functions. Druid CC is not pulsing, not dealing great dmg. Just the sustain is good.

Dont get me wrong, we finally learned to deal with trap-dh, but even then its annoying to see, that it require nearly no skill to port and instant drop two traps while using blocks and invuln. In a premade team all we do this weekend was looking for dh. Its boring. And if you go solo unranked most of the time the team with more dh`s win the game.

1. There is a difference between druid and the other classes. Druid doesnt deal the same amount of damage compared to rev, chrono and dh. Using lunarimpact mean that you deal NO damage. Our stunbreakglyph just to cc somebody with daze? Waste of time. CC with druid just means to survive. And most skills you mention are actually just dazes, no real stuns.
2. Immobilze a strong cc? Maybe before addon release. Now most classes run traits with immobilze-durationreduction. I stoped using entagle. Why?
1 second immobilze per puls + 33% reduction with trait + 20% reduction with hoelbrak = 0,47 s immobilze. Conclusion: People can move simple out of it (even without hoelbrak). Ancient seeds is nothing else than entagle as an mastertrait.
3. Druids cannot apply multiple dazes at one time. Just a bit stability and you are not even notice the druid and his stuns. Chrono and DH at the other hand can use multiple cc`s in a short period of time. Not even pulsing stability works against dh and chrono.
4. Ancient Seeds doesnt trigger when you cc somebody. It triggers when you hit somebody WHILE he is stunned. Reducing primal echo to 1/4 second means no synergy with ancient seed. You cannot swap to staff and hit the dazed person within 1/4 seconds daze. This just shows, that you just read some tooltips (and also wrong) and has no experience with its usage. But hey, its easy to write just some reduced numbers.

If you swap the staff before the animation from staff 3 end you will see the lightning and the lightningsound from ele “ride the lightning”.

Code copy and paste XD.

Since the last nerf was expected i think we must think about a rework.

About its actual state:
1.Blind: The blindspam was to much. But it was something that was obviously that im wondering that it came live in the first place. (one betaweekend is not enough)

2. Healing: We are an healing spec and now we have only thís grandmastertrait to support our team. The increased icd is not only a nerf to blind, but also to our number of healings. This healing nerf is my bigger issue. Lingering light in BW3 was more active and was good for af. Lets look closer to the healing part in all of these changes.

3.Number of healings while using trollurgent with Lingering light in all patches:

3.1.BW3: two whisps =10 heals per comrade (pet included);
maximum 50 heals in perfect situation

3.2.HoT launch: three healbuffs =3 heals per comrade (pet included) ;
15 heals maximum, 15 blinds maximum

3.3.Last patch: one healbuff= 1 heal per comrade(pet included);
maximum 5 heals, 5 blinds

4. AF-Generation(AFG) with healingnumbers of trollurgent + Lingering light in all patches

4.1.BW3: Minimum 10*2,5%= 25%; Maximum 50*2,5%= 125%
4.2.HoT launch: Minimum 3*1,5%=4,5%; Maximum 15*1,5%=22,5%
4.3.last patch: Minimum 1*1,5%=1,5%; Maximum 5*1,5%=7,5%

From BW3 to today the minimum AFG was decreased from 25% to 1,5% and the maximum AFG was decreased from 125% to 7,5%

5. Conclusion and personal opinion
Most people complain about the blind nerf, but with the icd increase and some last changes the nerf to AFG is a much bigger problem. This should be a healingspec, not an blindspam spec. With the current change we are a healing spec without a proper healinggrandmaster trait. THIS is the real problem. The last change had only the blind in mind (it was op), but destroyed its old purpose as an healing trait

Bring back BW3 Lingering Light without blind

It would be like this:

Minimum 10*1,5%= 15%; Maximum 50*1,5%= 75%

Just remove the druidclass the way it is now. Our dev doesnt know anything about this spec.
View from PvP:
1. CAF cooldown 10 seconds. Why? Show me a good build that can gain full astralforce within 10 seconds. We can get a 30s cd and wouldnt noticed that a cd exists.
2. AF before match starts: We get full AF-bar, which hits zero when the match starts.

Just two examples that our dev has no clue what he is doing.
If he does not know what is working maybe he should leave it in the state of bwe3.
He removed everything that made the druid different from other classes.

3.Lingering light: Instead of a special whisp we only get a buff for our teammates. Awesome bad idea, no real synergy with af generation.

4. af generation minor: This is a healing spec and then he nerfs af generation via healing by 1 % reduction. And then he think we cannot do our maths and see that 200% from nothing (af per damage) still is nothing.

Let us generate af with healing, dont make us like any other damage spec like warrior or necro!

5. The worst thing. We will hear nothing substantial from our dev! Just something like “iam working on everything” (but will change nothing). I want to know what has come to his mind when he decided this changes. It was intentional from his side.
I come to the conclusion that he either dont know what he is doing or that he was aware that he was destroying the druid on purpose.
If its the last thing then pls tell us. Then i dont think about druid anymore and start to deal with the fact, that we are the only class who didnt get a specialization.

Agree in all points. AF degeneration + the lower possibility to generate AF (because lingering light and AF per heal was nerfed to ground) makes druid unplayable in pvp. It takes 40 seconds to reach the celectial form. One question? Why did you make a cd for celestial form. Its impossible to get this form in this 10 seconds.
(/sarcasm on) You can increase the CD to 20 seconds and nobody will feel a difference while playing druid in pvp like he now is. (/sarcasm off)

1. Change lingering light back to his old form, also the AF generation and remove AF
degeneration.
2. Remove the fact, that we get 50% of AF after leaving celestial form. Nobody need this.
3. Healscaling is fine.
4. Or atleast give us the chance to transform to celestial avatar without 100% AF if you dont want to make the changed from 1. to 3.

Awesome nerf. Did our dev tried these changes even once on his own. But hey, thats the problem that comes along with one betaweekend feedback.

PS: I stay as ranger for now. Druid is still in beta and useless crap the way he is now. Finally we are also the only class with an complete useless specialization. Maybe our dev should not touch this class anymore. It will just get even worse…

My thoughts for druid in spvp so far:

1.Celestial Avatar Skill:

Skill 1: Not worth using it. Increase range or add some weak dmg to it so that it can trigger together with ancient seed or some of our spiritbuffs.

Skill 2: Not worth using it. The casttime and the time until it will remove the condition is to long. A burnguard will dmg my mates for 2 or 3 seconds until i remove the burning for example. Remove the healing, increase the cd and make this skill instant.

Skill 3: Nice skill combined with quickness from petswap. Without quickness it is really hard to land a hit on the enemy.The Explofinisher in the tooltip isnt working. Many people complain about the synergy of moment of clarity who makes the stun a 6 second daze, but i dont see a real problem here. It doesnt matter, if the daze lasts 6 or 3 seconds. One stunbreaker and its gone anyway. Second problem is that a druid with markmanship is squishy as hell. He loose most of his survivability if he uses this synergy.

Skill 4: Strong and really good. Lets make the waterfield last a bit longer than the actual casttime so that we can blast our waterfield with a working skill 3.

Skill 5: Good with quickness and a bit to weak without it. Let us move while casting it or make the casttime a bit shorter so that it is possible to land the dark hole against experienced players.

2.Thoughts about filling our Avatarform

I think its ok that we loose our full avatarlifebar after getting out of this form as long as there is no cd. Give us the chance to fill up our bar with regeneration, natural healing or the signet of wild in exchange for leaving it as it is. This will give us the chance to use other skill instead of troll urgent. Water spirit also works well but it is not a really good option for pvp even with druidtraitline in use.

If you add some kind of cd to transfom into avatar form than dont forget to give us a better way to fill our bar. For now it takes between 10 seconds(teamfight),20 seconds(small scale fight, 1v1), 30 seconds (1v1) to fully upload this form depending on the situation.

3.Traits

3.1.Adept

druidic clarity: strong and good

cultivated synergy: the scaling with healingpower is to low. From settler you get additional 180 hp. Lets make it scale better and add in exchange a cd so that it cannot be spamable with “Weal as one”. Increase radius to 360.

primal echos: Did not use it, sorry

3.2.Master

celestial shadow: Increase radius to 360 and make superspeed and stealth last 3 seconds. Add cooldown to prevent to make it spamable in teamfighs. 20 seconds or somethin like that. Dont forget that we loose our whole avatarbar to get this

verdant etching: I didnt used glyphs in pvp as much as possible to say something abut this, but it was a good trait for my interuptranger in pve.

natural stride: Strong and balanced in my opinion. Conditiondurationdecrease is nice, also the movementspeed. Without it the druid would be to slow to support the team. Before beta i thought about using resounding timbre together with We heal as One to get swiftness and regeneration to fill up the avatar bar. Since this is not working troll urgent is a must to have(it takes 3 minutes to fill the bar the We heal as one) we are forced to use natural stride to not getting outrotated.

3.3.Grandmaster

ancient seed: strong and really good skill

lingering light: strong and healing is pretty nice combined with our minortraits. And its really needed to fill up the avatarbar fast enough. Together with Troll urgent it
triggers twice. Hope this is intenional. Without this synergy it would be to weak.

grace of the land: strong and good as it is.

3.4.Minor

celestial beeing: Astralforce per healing would be ok, if it could work together with regeneration or the other healing traits. Without it (and thats actual the situation) its to weak. Either you make a synergy with regeneration or you increase astralforce per damage. I prefer the synergy with regeneration.

Rest of the minortraits are really good and i dont see any need to change it.

4.Pet
No chance to test the pets in pvp. Sad thing that this will stay like this until the release.

5.Conclusion:
Love it. Synergy with other sources of healing or other healingskills would be better, but the new classmechanic itself is awesome. Never thought that healing would be a real option compared to damagereduction via boons(aegis, protection) and conditions (blind, weakness). We are weak against cc and burstdamage in our avatar form and we need to stay in the damagecleave while healing. Thats why i think that our really great healpotential is not to strong. Healing the group has its price and thats ok in terms of balancing.

Heal is real.

Gav.1425:

How is this balanced when all other passive permanent movement speed traits give 25%?

Buff the others or put this one in line.

Just compare Chrono with Druid and you will see, that you forgot something really important. Chrono gets his 25% movement speed with the last minor trait and .. ups.. druid gets it with a master trait. Druid sacrifice his stealthoption in pvp for his movement trait. You want everything equal. Than put Chrono-movementtrait into mastertraits. (/irony on) But hey, than you Chronos just loose 30% crit chance if you want your movementtrait (/irony off).

The druidmovementtrait is fine as it is. Many other classes has equal traits and other options to move faster than anyone else. Do you think that druid can compete with the mobility of ele, thief, warrior or mesmer with this? Forget it. We will stay behind together with necros, engis and guards. At least guards can compensate this with some portoptions. The only thing that changed is the fact that the gap between fast and slow classes in spvp is now getting smaller.

To Gav:

To balance traits it is not enough to compare just two similar traits. You must look at the whole class. For example: Chrono with 25% is slowly than druid? Did you forget portal and portoptions?

As i have seen for now i have noticed that the Explofinisher from Lunar Impact isn`t working. I have tried it out together with Bonfire.

To the Rangerdev.: Great work. Its awesome to play the druid and healsupport in PvP feels so great.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQRAsf3YjUqQHL2sCusAVLG4EKfwHgD/fhRth7htSDgMW5kZVA-TJhHwAPLDA4kAE4JAMa/BA

Im using the healingskill for months now, so i dont have to change anything in my condiranger build for pvp. In every situation i have perma swiftness, perma regen and might between 14 and 25 constantly. Also my pet is runnig with 25 mightstacks, which also have most of the time quickness, which increased my damage on both enormous. Also protection is most of the time up. And i dont want to speak about teamfights. I have seen 20 seconds of protection on me.

pro:
perm. mightstacks between 14 and 25 —> 5 mightstacks for my group
perm. damage reduction 71% while above 90% hp, while under it still 38%
perm. regeneration --> low healing support for me and my teammates
perm. swiftness—> mobility for me and my group
high condition damage with burning, bleeding and poison
high access to dodges
poisonremove with dodge, one stunbreaker, 3 conditionremoves
petrezz
one aoe weakness to reduce incoming burstdamage

contra:
weak against high condition pressure because of low healthpool.
weak against long cc-chains

Why iam writing this? I love ranger, played most of my time in gw2 this class in pvp for the last 2 years, was hated for beeing not useful (was never true XD) and now even i have the fealing that this is too strong. Will we now be hated for beeing to strong?
The skill and traitinvestments for this permanent boons are really cheap. Natur magic + beastmastery together with “We heal as one”. Shall we really be reduced to this synergy for the next months?

GrandHaven.1052:

MethaneGas.8357:

In my experience, most people who complain about condis are inexperienced.

As a condi player, fighting the following classes can be a complete pain in the kitten because of such high spammable condi removal that playing condi can be really irritating at times:
-Fire-specced ele – a disgusting amount of cleanses. Good luck making your condis stick.
-Mantra Mesmer – crazy amount of cleanses – good luck with making your condis stick.
-Shout Warrior – AoE cleanse.
-Shout Guardian – AoE cleanse
-Shadow Arts thief – go into stealth and all of the sudden all your damaging condis fall right off
-Signet Necros transfer it all back to you

People hate condis because they slowly kill you… but I’m sorry, if you’re not bringing any condi cleanse on your team, that’s just the way it’s going to be. Imo unless you’re a condi Mesmer and maybe burn guard, playing condi in sPvP is not faceroll at all. In WvW it may be, but in sPvP it’s not, especially at “higher tier” fights.

Conditions are shaping the meta to a much larger extend than ever before, its one of the main factors that limit diversity. Think on that.

Also thieves. I think you don’t understand how ineffective Shadows embrace has become. 1 condition every 3 seconds, NOT damaging conditions. if 6+ stacks of burning isn’t removed with the initial clear after stealthing, 3 seconds is more than enough to screw the thief over

Thieves, warrior, Engis (although elixirs are keeping them relatively ok) and rangers do not have near as much cleanse.

I have said this so many times, balancing around JUST premade teamcomps is foolhardy and ultimately pushes people from pvp.

Most singular condi builds are not a problem(some burning amounts on ele and such are stupid) but in a overwhelming condi comp, it gets impossible to deal with and its effectively ROFLStomping the lower/medium and more importantly SOLOQ games levels of play. Since this is 90%+ of the PvP community, i believe SOMETHING needs to be done.

Conditions decrease diversity? Such nonsense. There are more viable builds at metabattle sins months.
Bunkerguard is back.
After long time there is a Necrobuild, that made it to the current meta.
We now can add some viable conditionbuilds to the extisting directdamage builds.
Finally stealth is not a free combat-reset mechanic.
Mesmer/Thief Paintrain now cannot rule the whole match.

Three Years around a berserker and later celestial meta and now you are scared that conditions can also take a part in it?
Most of the conditions are applied by skills that can be dodged. The different to direct damage is that conditons can completly be negated by condiremove. And we got aoe condiremove like candy in this game. Protection reduce 33% of the incoming directdamage, but every condiremove reduce the conditiondamage about 90%, if you use it in the right moment. And since resistance is around there is another mechanic that negate conditiondamage completly. Is there a boon that has a similiar effect to directdamage?

And your argument that most of the lowtier in pvp cannot deal with conditions… shall we also nerf the mesmer to the ground because lowtier gamer cannot deal with the clones? And iam sure that also rampage is really op in lowtier. Maybe we should nerf it. It is the best idea to balance our skills around lowtierpvp.

And before your start with the argument, that conditionbuilds can use more defense:
Most bersekerclasses uses a secondary mechanic to get access to some kind of defense.
Thief and Mesmer are using Stealth and ports.
Warriors have even after healingsignetnerf an incredible passive heal, great hp-pool and some good basearmor.

Its also the reason that many other classes never made it to the metastandard with an viable bersekerbuild. For example the Powernecro or the Pew-Pew-Ranger. No access to viable ports or viable stealth so that every failure is punished ( without a chance to faceroll resest in stealth or port to higher ground).

Holland.9351:

FrownyClown.8402:

thief and guardian res bots are better

Ranger is the fastest rezzer though.

Thats why I think adding Rune of Mercy to Allies’ Aid might be good since it would make it even faster and add 400 toughness and give extra health.

But adding Search & Rescue would probably be a waste. However, he would have to test it out. The tooltip doesn’t say what the cooldown on Allies’ Aid is. Adding Search & Rescue could still be amazing, especially with Resounding Timbre lowering the cooldown and having Rune of Mercy. Likely overkill, but possibly amazing.

But it might work best in small scale WvW.

Wrong. You can see the cooldown of Allies Aid in the tooltip.
Second: Resounding Timbre reduce the cooldown of Allies Aid, which is nothing else than Search and Rescue as a trait. You also get regeneration and swiftness.

About the build: Support alone is not enough. Your damage is to low and this way this build will be carried by your teammates. You need some balance between sustain, support and damage.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQRAsf3YjUqQHL2sCusAVLG4EKfwD1D/fhFPx7htSDgLW5oK-TJhHwAPLDA4kAE4JAAa/BA

I`m running this build for some weeks, using resounding timbre to share swiftness. You will deal more damage while get access to the same support your build is providing for your teammates right now.

1. Support

Heal as one with 12 s boonduration and 16 seconds cd is more than enough to offer 75% boon uptime. There is not need for a second shout if you only focus on boonsharing.
It also provide weakness, vigor, immobilize, cripple, fear and taunt to support your team by reducing incoming damage and slowing the enemys movement. If an allie goes into downstate just use petswap next to him, use f2 taunt to interupt the stomp and then start to heal your allie.

2. Sustain

Great access to dodges and conditionremoves. Your Hp-Pool is not so high, but Heal as One can heal about 50% of your Health-pool, which helps you to stay above 90% hp. While above 90% hp you reduce incoming damage by 33%, combined with oakheart salve and protection(companions defense, protective ward) you reduce even more of the incoming damage. I dont know if you can just add all together. If you can stack the damagereduction it would mean, that you can have up to 71% additional damagereduction(, but im not sure with this).

3. Damage

After this patch the conditiondamage was really buffed. Sunspirit provide up to 10 stacks of burning every 5 (or 6) seconds, if you have three allies around. But notice that a teammate without conditiondamage also apply only low damage burningstacks. Rest of this build is a usal survival condition ranger build with a/d and s/t.

zapv.8051:

Phil.8901:

With more than 3 burning stacks you have spike damage, not condi damage. This breaks the intial design for conditions. Not other condis in the game can reach the burning damage with only 3+ stacks (luckily)

With 3 burning stacks a condi build can deal more than 850 damage, is more than the old value (with the old unique stack) with 1000 condi damage.

If you want to do more damage in 1-2 sec with a single spell, use a power build, not burning build.

First 2 sentences, false assumption. They’ve never stated the design of conditions isn’t supposed to be bursty. In fact, ability to apply conditions from multiple sources to eventually get to high dps means they want conditions to be bursty if speced for it.

Yes, it deals more damage. That was the actual point of the changes they made and enforces my point above ^.

The last sentence is the kind of bias towards condition builds people who play conditions builds hate, while also being outright false in that no condition build can use 1 skill to do comparable damage to a power build in the first 1-2 seconds. Multiple skills are needed for high stacks of conditions in the overwhelming majority of scenarios.

I agree with you. I have read so often that condition is not supposed to burst enemys. Show me the thread, where a anetdeveloper have stated this. Otherwise i will not count this as an argument. And i also dont see, where thiefs or mesmer are so more risky, while using berserkeramulett. Ofcourse it is not easy, but in the end you can use bersekeramulett because you have access to mechanics like stealth, what makes it a way more easier.
The Problem is that PvP-Meta was focused on berserkerbuilds for more than 3 years (and it has not changed until now. Just look on metabattle.) Because of this most of our builds obvious use stunbreaker, skills to negate directdamage and so on to counter it. Conditiondamage was never a problem for this three years (in high-tier pvp), so many of our great- and metabuilds have neglected condiremove. Most of the pvper cannot react fast enough to this changes these days, using only skills to counter directdamage and start to cry about burningdamage. Burning is so overpowered? Burnguards can burst, but after it they are free to kill. Why? They cannot leave the battle after they used their burstskills like thieves would do.
Burning is not overpowered, rethink your builds and teamcomps. Add Shoutguards, Shoutwarriors and there will be no problem. This game is balanced for 5v5, not 1v1.

I have also played such a match while being solo with my ranger in ranked. My teammates were all four playing ele. All Points were decapped for about 6 minutes, then we got the first cap, about 2 minutes later the second cap. Match ended with about 200 points on our side after 15 minutes. Enemy got zero points. I thought this was just a troll group and this could not work against tournament players, … but in the end i was wrong.

I dont care if i get this top-player rewards. Why? TPvP is a based on teamplay. If i play together with friends its not the soloreward that matter. So it does not make any difference to me if i neither get +5 nor +50 points.

Ranger with trapperrune, 4 traps, greatsword and sword. Fast and stealth helps, if you want to avoid fights.

I tested it and i think that the ICD of sunspirit is 5 seconds. That mean that you get about 10 burning that last 2 seconds every 5 seconds in a full team. If you add the active(buff recharge as long as spiritcorpse remain on the ground even if hes dead) you get additional 3 burningstacks and 1 blind every 24 seconds. Not really worth in a pve comp with zerker equip. As TragicPositive says its only worth while the group uses sinister stats. Good luck finding such a group.
But its really interresting in pvp. Im in group together with cele necro, burning guard and settler shoutbow-warior. Its a great synergy and most people are not prepared for this combination. Sunspirit is just too rare in condispecs. I dont know if it works well if the people gets used to it.