Guild Wars 2

Ankas.9023:

Here is a thought. Since Ranger class is stuck with the pets and we are lacking damage because of them, why not have both hear me out here!

Divide pets into 2 groups. support/defensive and damage/aggressive.

Based upon what kind of build 1 wishes to play ranger damage will be based upon. Example if ranger chooses with supportive pet that pet will NOT do any damage to enemy’s but provide boons and survivability to the team and player, but going that rout player gains increased damage himself. That would solve the problem with solo players that don’t wish pets as their damage source and want to deal damage while having some survivability.

Players that choose to do aggressive pets would be divided on damage (like it is now) with the pet with much improved pathing /AI for the pets for that burst damage that rangers are lacking to par with warriors exc…

Interesting . . . might work well, but would need some tuning.

urdriel.8496:

Stealth doesnt have a counter -> Thieves can spam stealth -> profit.

Stealth does have a counter, or at least there are ways of handling those perma-stealthed thieves. I think there were threads about it all over Reddit and the forums ages ago discussing how to handle it.

The general consensus was “don’t panic and try to anticipate”.

infantrydiv.1620:

Specific Game Mode
Primarily PvP and WvW, but decent for PvE as well
Proposal Overview
Reverse the leaps on Ranger Sword Skill #2
Goal of Proposal
Currently the Ranger sword skill #2 leaps backwards and then forwards, the goal of the proposal would be to make the sword first leap forwards and then backwards
Proposal Functionality
Currently the sword 2 leap feels kind of wonky and useless in most situations. It’s alright because of the hard evade on it and the distance generation of the initial leap, but reversing the leaps would improve fluidity of gameplay. For example, with my proposal you could do combos like this:
Sword 2 to leap into the fight, Sword 3 to poison, Torch 5 for burning field, Sword 3 to leap out of burning field, swap to longbow or shortbow now at range.
Associated Risks
Not much, I’d say that the evade on Sword 2 could be removed if this was implemented, but keep the cripple and leap finisher.

If you swap the chain on sword 2 we lose the evade and subsequent reengage. If anything the skill available should depend on the distance to your target. Then it can fill both roles.

My only real problem with sword 2 is the length of the animation before the evade.

infantrydiv.1620:

Specific Game Mode
Primarily PvP and WvW, but decent for PvE as well
Proposal Overview
Reverse the leaps on Ranger Sword Skill #2
Goal of Proposal
Currently the Ranger sword skill #2 leaps backwards and then forwards, the goal of the proposal would be to make the sword first leap forwards and then backwards
Proposal Functionality
Currently the sword 2 leap feels kind of wonky and useless in most situations. It’s alright because of the hard evade on it and the distance generation of the initial leap, but reversing the leaps would improve fluidity of gameplay. For example, with my proposal you could do combos like this:
Sword 2 to leap into the fight, Sword 3 to poison, Torch 5 for burning field, Sword 3 to leap out of burning field, swap to longbow or shortbow now at range.
Associated Risks
Not much, I’d say that the evade on Sword 2 could be removed if this was implemented, but keep the cripple and leap finisher.

Risk:
- No need of the second jump…
(unless someone states an example of situations where jump #2 would be useful)
- Lost flavor/utility
for me, sword 2 is a “I get back to get a bigger picture of what is there, and go right back in”
- Going forward first would make it more of a ground covering (landspeed) skill. I fear upcoming QQ about escape abilities that would ultimately lead to possible nerfs…

(btw, I think it’s the third time that specific proposal came in the thread, along with two times that it should go “forward/forward”. I know the thread is long, but repeating the exact same proposal times and times again, receiving yet the exact same counter arguments/risks is not constructive)

I feel that these idea’s haven’t got much focus but are undoubtedly great idea’s that don’t involve much work but would greatly help rangers.

Allow the current functionality of “Signet of the Beastmaster” and “Fortifying Bond” to be inherit abilities of the Ranger Class.

If we and the pet are described as working as one(Sharing damage in this case), then it makes no sense that we have to trait just to be able to share in boons and the use of signets. With the traits now free, we can create functionality that will benefit us in groups, an area we are weak in.

Allow the ranger the ability to make the pet dodge/blur(F3:Return to Me) for 3 seconds with a cooldown of 6 seconds(cooldown begins at start of blur for downtime of 3 seconds).

By using blur, we give the pet a way to evade that is in the players hands that can help the pet when both fighting and retreating. (For example, need a quick way to make the pet evade and keep attacking? Simple use F3->F1 in quick succession)

Bonus points if Anet can find a way to incorporate a pet endurance bar into the mix instead of straight cooldowns.

Consider reworking some skills to make them more active and interesting.

Lets take “Search and Rescue” for instance. It’s a fairly boring skill that can be occasionally useful but risks the downed player and the pet due to the speed of the revive. Now, here is a functionality I quickly brainstormed.

Search and Assist: Runs to the nearest downed player and revives them at a slow speed.
Rescue: (Search and Assist flips to this when the pet begins healing a downed player) Upon activation of this skill, the pet and downed player are shadowstepped to the rangers current location.

As above, we have just created a niche for a Ranger that allows him to move a downed player out of a potentially bad situation. Much more creative then the current skill.

Another skill that is lackluster, is “Protect Me”. While it is useful, it shares base traited functionality with “Signet of Stone” with the added bonus of potentially killing your pet. Why not expand the functionality from a selfish use to a party based use?

Protect: Instead of attacking, your pet will protect the current lowest health party member by absorbing all damage they would take. (Defaults to the Ranger if everyone in the party is at 100% health or the ranger is not in a party)

Now the above skill is much more interesting since if someone is struggling to maintain health, the ranger could use this skill to their party members benefit.

These skills were just simple examples of skills where changes could make them much more fun and interesting for rangers and party members alike.

I framed these ideas from the feeling that Anet shouldn’t only look at number tweaks for the ranger but go further and examine base functionality where pet problems occur and figure methods that can be used to help the pet survive and contribute all while promoting skillful and tactical play from the ranger player himself.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

Sorry Allie but . . .

We’re talking about pets so much because they are a huge issue and we have heard from some red names how it is a big undertaking to revise the pet behavior. Therefore, we spend time talking on it. I know I talk on it because it is the first thing I think of when I go “what could I stand to improve in my class”.

It’s not, initially, DPS issues or traits, or other things. It’s how the pet is really useful when alone and doing non-champion fights but not as useful in larger battles. They get plastered to the ground too fast, and there’s no way to get them back short of waiting the timer out . . . compared to other classes and their F# mechanic, we’re punished quite harshly for that.

So if I focus on the pet, it’s because it is #1 with a bullet for what I think needs to get fixed. And not fixed as in “yank it out”. My catalytic converter fails on my car, it’s not going to make the car run better if I just go without it.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

That’s fair enough, and I’ve already said my piece on them for the most part.
There is one last this I’d like to add, is that whatever approach is taken to correct them, I’d like to see pet’s become more distinctly different both as pets but also in usage.

The Mesmer for example, while you have a bunch of different Illusions that come in every shape and size, there are a number of different ways you can use them and they are all valid. You can shatter, or use them to deceive, you can sustain damage with clones via condition damage, or direct damage with phantasms, or even heavily support your allies.

Pet’s on the other hand I find so generic, that the only real difference you would get one is because of their F2 skill, which is usually pretty generic.
You either invest in using your pet, or not. But the differences in kind just are not there.

If for example they had an Aspect of “pet” which gave a passive effect regardless of whether they are alive or not. Such as Aspect of Birds, gives you +25% projectile speed, or Aspect of Moas gives you +25% movement speed.
Something class defining that you’d want to build you build around, that you’d want that specific pet because of what it does, rather then the unnecessary tac-on’s they feel like now.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Ok guys, just wanted to clarify a few things.

Permastow is not impossible. I never meant to give that impression, so I apologize if I did. However, as far as priorities go for the Ranger, it is not high on the list. Why? Because it would require an entire re-balance of Ranger, but if we re-balanced, then the players that do play with the pet would be OP. See the dilemma there?

Thank goodness. I am confused about something though, why would perma stow make pets op? I figured that something like a damage boost would only occur while the pet was stowed. I don’t think that the skills themselves would need to be changed, just a %stat boost that would give the approximate damage that the pet gave.

Allie Murdock.8152:

The reason why I latched onto the aspect idea was because it was an option that seemed we could maybe work around. Rather than having to rebalance the whole class, we’d just have to balance the aspects to be similar to what the pet does damage-wise. That seemed a little more viable.

I thought that aspects was basically the equivalent of perma-stowing with a stat boost, an F2 skill by family and glowing particles to show which aspect you were in. I don’t really understand how this is dramatically different from perma stowing with a damage boost while stowed.

Going through the CDI I had noticed that while many of us, myself included, have been championing a 100% Ranger with Support pet option, there isn’t really a suggested idea of how it might work in detail. This is just some loose ideas I threw together and would need access to an actual test server to see how they work in tandem with a stronger Ranger than we have now so I make no assumptions to their balance but I will try my best to no power creep the class. At least, not too much

The idea is that the ranger’s weapon coefficients would be increased by ~30% and the pet’s coefficient would be reduced to 0 as a baseline. Pets would instead have a list of 3 skills we could slot like normal utilities that are unique to each pet type (cats, hounds). These would take the place of the F2 slot and the other F’s would function as normal. Any F2 skills would have separate damage amounts not tied to the amount of invested BM points. The other two attack skills would be removed from pet actions to limit interference with the F2 skill and to allow for shorter cool downs as they now only have auto and F2.

The Beastmastery line would be changed from an increase in pet stats to an increase to the pet’s damage coefficient by 1% and reduce the Ranger’s damage per point in the line. This would effectively allow one who wishes to beastmaster to do so with appropriate trait investment and prevent a 100%+30% ranger from happening in spvp. This would require a condensing of pet traits and reallocation of most if not all of them to the Beastmaster line as a player with points in other lines has little use for them and to allow maximum use of traits for beastmasters.

The Pet “Types” and Their Respective Skills

I made it only restricted by pet type to allow some amount of player aesthetic choice on pet appearance without having to worry about performance. Similar to how pets in GW1 worked.

Hounds
“Strike as One”
-Your next attack cripples the target and your pet shadow steps to the target and knocks them down.
“Terrifying Howl”
-Same as current Wolf skill. Reduced cool down to compensate for smaller skill pool.
“Pack Ferocity”
-AoE stability and fury. More team utility and more access to stability for the Ranger.

Cats
“Stalk”
-Both you and your pet gain 10 seconds of Stealth. Ends on attack like normal stealth. We need some kind of skill that emulates the activity of a hunter blending into nature.
“Rending Claws”
-Passive Effect: Both you and your pet gain ‘Sharpened Edges’ effect.
“Clever Girl”
-Pet moves to targeted location. Press again to shadowstep to your pet’s location. “The one you see is only a distraction” Could also be made to simply step to pet’s location, without the placement element.

Birds
“Go for the Eyes!”
-Channeled attack over several seconds that applies multiple blind applications.
“Scavenger’s Strike”
-Pet strikes foe, stealing 2 boons on next attack. You gain stolen boons.
“Airspeed Velocity”
-Passive: Player and pet gain 25% movement speed. Swiftness has no effect while skill is active. Player need not be unladen.

Hogs
“Scavenge”
-Works as current Scavenge skill but places item directly into the player’s F2 slot in the same way Steal works for the thief. Reduced cool down to compensate for smaller skill pool. Also could instead be an aoe that gives allies tools as well but may be too powerful or open to trolling allied players.

Bears
“Brutal Mauling”
-Knocks foe down and inflicts daze. Blast finisher. Cleaves.
“Thick Hide”
-Passive: 20% of the damage you take is redirected to the pet.
“Hibernation”
-Passive:You and adjacent allies gain health regeneration while not moving.

Optional Replacement Skill “Oh Bother”
-Bear creates a cloud of bees at it’s location that inflict Torment.

Moas
“Yeehaw!”
-The pet shadowsteps to your location and you both leap forward 1200 units
“Stampede”
-Pet gains stability and charges forward, knocking back foes as it moves.
“Edge of Extinction”
-Passive: Pet deals AoE damage and strips boons on death. Unblockable. A good skill in areas like WvW zerg fights where the pet dies as a norm and boon strip AoE is massively useful. Nod to extinct Moas and the EoE of GW1 as well.

Spiders
“Snare”
-Pulls target to Pet’s location. Inflicts cripple and poison. 1200 range to allow for pulling folks off walls in WvW.
“Funnel Web”
-Creates web at pet’s location that inflicts AoE immobilize. Conditions on player are transferred to affected foes.
“Debilitating Venom”
-Passive: Both Pet and Player deal 10% more damage to foes suffering from poison. 10% chance on strike to inflict 2s of poison if foe is already poisoned.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

Traps should come in packs! Engis have granade and bomb kits with 5 kind of stuffs in them for 1 utility slot. I can image a trap kit with spiked, smoke, poison, fire and ice trap

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

urdriel.8496:

Stealth doesnt have a counter -> Thieves can spam stealth -> profit.

Stealth does have a counter, or at least there are ways of handling those perma-stealthed thieves. I think there were threads about it all over Reddit and the forums ages ago discussing how to handle it.

The general consensus was “don’t panic and try to anticipate”.

how to handle means that doesnt have a counter, you cant counter what you cant see, you can guess, but guessing is not a counter.

I call counter a reveal skill.

Specific Game Mode
PvE

Proposal Overview
Survival Skills and how to improve on their uniqueness

Goal of Proposal
To increase the diversity of Survival Skills, making them useful in more situations than as of now.

Proposal Functionality
Healing Spring

• Is now a Survival Skill, making it synergize better with Traits and allowing for players to Spec into its use. Possibly Increased Cooldown as an effect of this.

Lightning Reflexes

• Changed functionality. Instead of directly causing the Ranger to roll backwards, this Skill now takes on the Block Animation. If attacked, the Ranger dodges backwards, curing Cripple, Chill and Immobilize.
• Additional Skill. If the Ranger isn’t attacked, he can interrupt the Block Animation with a Lunge, similar to Warrior’s Bull’s Charge, that Stuns an enemy on impact. Range could be around 900-1200 Units.
• The idea behind this split is to allow this skill to be used both for offense and defense, while still retaining the very valuable mobility that is a Ranger’s forte. Might require an increase in Cooldown, or it could be split between the Dodge and the Lunge (It you just use the Dodge, Cooldown is 25s. If you use the Lunge, Cooldown goes up to 50s, for instance)

Muddy Terrain

• Now Knocks Down on creation instead of Immobilizing (Because Slippery mud).
• Instead now stacks Weakness (1s) with each pulse along with Cripple (Because it’s extremely tiring to move about and fight while knee-deep in mud).
• These changes are for the sake of increasing its usefulness while fighting stationary enemies, against which immobilize and cripple have little to no use. Increased Cooldown is probably required.

Sharpening Stone

• Aside from just stacking Bleeds on your target, this skill now increases the damage of your next 5 attacks by 5%, making it viable for a Power Build as well.

Quickening Zephyr

• No need to increase the effectiviness of this one.

Master of Survival

• This trait now also increases the duration of Survival Skills by 20%.

Associated Risks
Might make Survival Skills a bit too powerful, resulting in too high Cooldowns to have the same steady use they have right now.

Part 2

Devourers
“Parasite”
-For the next X seconds the pet’s attacks have a 25% chance to steal health from the foe to heal the pet and Player.
“Carapace”
-AoE Protection and stability.
“For the Swarm”
-Pet instantly dies and revives downed players and dead NPCs adjacent to pet. Cannot be slotted on two pets at the same time. This skill would be massively useful in WvW and dungeons.

Drakes
“____ Breath”
-Same functionality as the Marsh and River drake breath weapon but tied to drake type and their current breath weapons. They all have bounce and homing to aid in delivery.
“Tail Swipe”
-Similar to current drake skill but causes launch like the hostile drakes do with their tail sweeps. Blast finisher.
“Draconic Strength”
-Passive: Player gains 1% damage increase for every 3 points in beastmastery. Allowing for an 80/30 ranger at the expense of pet the skill.

I tried to limit the skills more to effects that we currently don’t posses rather than just flat damage that plagues pet skills right now. As I said, I purposely left out cooldowns, durations, and cast times because it’s impossible to gauge how powerful these would need to be when the pet can only use 1 skill at a time, the player has all the damage, and our other skills, as well as pet performance, is improved. Something on the list that looks too weak now might be too powerful after the changes or vice versa.

Pets would retain the slotted skill when rotated out so you could, for example, use the moa’s “Yeehaw” to charge the pet into a zerg in wvw and then rapidly switch to a moa slotted for “Edge of Extinction” to bomb the zerg with damage and boon stripping when they inevitably instagib it.

Our class identity would shift from “Guy/Gal with Pet” to “Guy/Gal with access to large skill pool delivered through pet.” It also gives an element of unpredictability to the Ranger as you would have no way of knowing what skill they have in reserve out of over 2 dozen different ones.

Balance would be an issue but I feel the inability to slot for more than one at a time along with the fact that most of them are performed by the pet with it’s inherent AI limitations would keep their power in check.

Again, mostly off the top of my head ideas but a basic plan of how a 100% damage ranger with a utility tool pet could work in theory since it’s what many of us would like to see happen but hasn’t yet been laid out effectively.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

Sic ‘Em could be reworked to function with F2 attacks (currently F2 immediately removes the Sic ’Em Buff). The Sic ’Em Buff is also sometimes removed when the pet reaches the target (bug). I’m sure there are still people out there that hit Sic ’em for bonus damage and then hit their f2… and not get any bonus damage.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

I believe also on that, we went pretty much all around.

Untraited traps are doing crappy damage (untraited traps use is usually just a question of utility… fire for the field, poison for lower healing…)
Untraited signets are either useless for ranger or hurting the pet (and those hurting the pet still hurt it when traited)
Shouts – only affect the pet or kills it… (and search and rescue almost never work)

(can’t talk about spirits – never play with them cause they don’t move and I can’t move them unless I take a trait on paper, thay looked balanced, though)

Survival skills looks pretty balanced to me, on their own – the trait just makes them better…
:D

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

Woot, these 2 posts are the kind of red text I was hoping for. Acknowledge good ideas, give dev reasons for or against, then call out what direction you want to see the thread go.

Shouts
All – I liked the idea about giving nature’s voice a different buff for each shout. That would make it much more appealing.
Guard – I don’t see the point of ground targeting or stealth. I’d rather see it as a pet survivability skill, giving them protection and maybe evade frames.
Search and Rescue – CD is so high
Sic ’Em – CD is so high (and buggy, so hard to get damage buff to stick)

Signets
All – if we can swap it so rangers always are affected I think that would be enough to make these desirable. A grandmaster trait to make passives persist would also be good, since none of the passives are hugely powerful. If that happened maybe also move Beastmaster’s Might and Signet of the Beastmaster down a tier.
Signet of Removal – just feels weak. Too often it will remove a cripple with 0.5 seconds remaining rather than the 25 stack of bleed. If it had priorities that would make it much better. This might also be a target to make its passive persist regardless of a trait.

Spirits
All – trigger effects could be proc’d more often, with vigorous spirits maybe moved to tier 2 and increased to 90% chance if spirits become untargetable. Other than that these are doing pretty good now.

Wilderness Survivial
Sharpening stone – the only DPS utility we have outside of traps, this definitely feels weak for its slot. A reduced CD and applying all the bleeds in one shot would go a long way for this. Or maybe we could add another effect, like cripple, to it?

Traps
All – I’d love to see them get the necro marks treatment. Increase their default range, then have their traited range even larger or change it to give them duration increase or some such. For PBAoE, the only AoE the ranger has outside of longbow or melee cleave, and having a cast time, the radius of traps leaves much to be desired when they’re not traited. Increase of base damages across the board could be helpful, but maybe unnecessary if these are in a better trait line.
Frost – adding a base damage would be lovely, even if it’s small like viper’s. Right now the chill duration is only 5s on a 24-30 second cooldown, which is handily beat by axe 3. Reducing its cooldown is dangerous since chill is so powerful, so I think the base damage route would be better.

Long time lurker, first time poster.

So… I don’t understand why permastow isn’t an option….

Because balancing is too difficult? one class? I believe, back in gw1, they completely changed up how the dervish was played, and changed their basic functions. And that game had more classes than this one.

That excuse seems invalid. It’s been done before. And it can be done again. I think its more of a “we don’t want too” rather than an impossibility. This is digital data, anything is possible. All it takes is the motivation, but no dev seems to have any in regards to this class…

Pets are the core problem with this class. period.
If the devs don’t make them optional, then there is nothing, and i mean NOTHING, that balancing can fix. because the drawbacks are so huge.

Pets cause us to be in combat. Maybe change that? This way attacking my pet doesn’t combat slow me and allow warriors with their incredible gap closers to finish me off with even more ease. Or is this programming too difficult as well?

Also allow it so that pets don’t die. Because there is no point is sacrificing our damage when any not-bear-pet dies in 2 hits. increase their health by 500%. That would be satisfactory. With that much health, they may even be able to hit a target 1, or maybe even 2 times.

Speaking from a death perspective. Spirits. Pointless. One AoE and all my utilities are gone. Maybe make them untargetable? similar to the warrior’s warbanners? or are warriors a class now that not only can fire two arrows, making a mockery of the ranger profession being “archers”, but also have the best pets in game giving them (and others) stats and benefits that cannot be removed through damage? Our core mechanic, the pet, isn’t even the “best” for this profession.

Signets are another issue. They should affect us. Because our pets are pointless. As our current gameplay suggests, we leave them to die so that when dead, they no longer affect our combat speed, allows us to be more effective on the battlefield.

Honestly: the survivability utilities are actually useful, but could be more so. Lightning reflexes is nice, but needs an imolb removable as well.

And my final rant topic. If we are to be “sustained” dps, we need, and i repeat NEED, the BEST condition removal in the game (and some dps). Everything should be curing conditions. We’re rangers, we’ve been exposed to everything in nature (from a lore perspective). This means that we should have cures for all ailments… and our cure shouldn’t involve giving them to our pets, as if its some sort of magical bacteria. This means that every utility skill we have, in some way, should be able to break stuns, or cure poisons, or stop bleedings, ect.

or make our pets more like warbanners, where I can pick up my wolf and use it to club someone. that would make it far more effective, and even useful.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

Specific Utilities that need improvement due to traits

Guard: This utility has no functional purpose other than giving us the ability to position a pet on a favorable location (which no one will take the utility skill for) or for Nature’s Voice. Why the cast time? Why no benefit to the group?

Signet of Stone: While some could argue the active is too powerful without Signet of the Beastmaster, I’d much rather see the signet dropped to 4 seconds with a 60 second cooldown to mirror Endure Pain than to try and pretend it’s so powerful to need a 30pt trait just to work on the Ranger. Also please keep in mind that we’re dealing with the Ranger class here.

Signet of the Wild: While powerful, this is another signet that should just have the cast time and active effect cut back some in favor of not relying on Signet of the Beastmaster to work on the Ranger. Unfortunately you’ve compounded the issue by changing the Enlargement trait to work with it so some tuning may be needed there too. But like Signet of Stone, it’s important to remember the class this signet is attached to before claiming it’s overpowered.

Spike Trap: Not only is this utility quite poor, it’s also absolutely useless without traits because it doesn’t immobilize without traits! On top of that it’s a one off trap that only does one wave of bleed and 1 wave of cripple (and only 2 seconds?!). This is an awful trait all around and is why I suggested the changes to Barrage back on page one HERE.

Flame & Frost Trap: While not ‘useless’, the value of these traps is greatly diminished without the added radius.

Viper’s Nest: While this is rumored to be getting a poison field soon, it still only attacks 3 people (which I assume making it a field will fix?) and is still of questionable value given this class’ access to poison and a lack of burst finishers. I do see a lot more drakes in our future when this becomes a field though.

Signet of the Hunt: This is a terrible signet without the trait. Even with the trait, given this class’s lack of skills to really benefit from the added damage on, it’s almost never activated. In fact, I’d wager most people activate it when they spawn because it puts the buff on you for a very long period of time, and then never use it again unless they’re lining up a maul. So not only does this signet need a trait before it’s useful… it also needs a specific weapon. Thus why I suggested changing signet of the hunt HERE.

All Spirits: All of the spirits have the same problem. They spawn at our feet which is counter productive to something that dies in only a couple hits. On top of this they can’t follow us and have a long cooldown which doesn’t start until we move out of range of them or they die. So right off the bat they’re useless without the ability to move (or you give us the ability to range target them). But on top of this, a lot of their value in is their activated abilities which means we’re likely to want the 30pt trait too.

Signet of the Beastmaster, Trap Potency, Spirit’s Unbound, and Nature’s Vengeance (and Empathic Bond) remove almost all ability for us to come up with diverse and viable builds.

In addition to the above utility issues related mostly to traits, we also have these problems:

Sharpening Stone: While not dependent on traits like a lot of our utility skills, this skill is incredibly weak for what it provides and the cooldown attached to it. 45 seconds is comparable to what other similar utility skills have, but a bleed stack is far inferior to things like stacking immobilize or chill. Why not increase crit chance too? Apply vulnerability? Something…

Protect Me: Also not dependent on traits as you requested, but a bad utility skill nonetheless. In WvW, there is never going to be a scenario outside of roaming where this utility will work. The pet is often dead to begin with, let alone in a position to take this kind of damage (considering a cleave would likely be hitting the pet and redirect damage from you to the pet).

Lightning Reflexes: This utility skill needs NEEDS NEEDS to break immobilize and chill. I’m also left wondering why it does such poor damage and also only hits 3 targets where most other AE utility skills hit 5?

Quickening Zephyr: Quickness has lost a lot of its punch since the nerf to things like shortbow attack speed and the drop to 50% speed. Considering this class is so weak in the condi removal area, attaching some condi cleanse on this would help bring it up to par.

Permastowing Pets
This suggestion goes in line with my previous suggestions, which I will sum up shortly:

• Shift the damagemodel from Ranger: 70%, Pet: 30% to Ranger: 100%, Pet: Additional damage (10%)
• The pet should serve the prupose to support his master through CC and Support rather than through damage
• Investing Points into Beastmastery will shift some power back to the pet

Function:

• Stowing your pet should give you no bonuses
• You should be able to stow your pet while in fight
• You oughn’t be able to fetch your pet while in fight

Impact:

• I don’t want people to exploit the stow function to bypass all kinds of AoEs
• You can stow your pet but you have to be responisble for the impact of doing so

Atherakhia.4086:

In addition to the above utility issues related mostly to traits, we also have these problems:

Sharpening Stone: While not dependent on traits like a lot of our utility skills, this skill is incredibly weak for what it provides and the cooldown attached to it. 45 seconds is comparable to what other similar utility skills have, but a bleed stack is far inferior to things like stacking immobilize or chill. Why not increase crit chance too? Apply vulnerability? Something…

Protect Me: Also not dependent on traits as you requested, but a bad utility skill nonetheless. In WvW, there is never going to be a scenario outside of roaming where this utility will work. The pet is often dead to begin with, let alone in a position to take this kind of damage (considering a cleave would likely be hitting the pet and redirect damage from you to the pet).

Lightning Reflexes: This utility skill needs NEEDS NEEDS to break immobilize and chill. I’m also left wondering why it does such poor damage and also only hits 3 targets where most other AE utility skills hit 5?

Quickening Zephyr: Quickness has lost a lot of its punch since the nerf to things like shortbow attack speed and the drop to 50% speed. Considering this class is so weak in the condi removal area, attaching some condi cleanse on this would help bring it up to par.

I forgot about my rant on protect me…yeah, this is basically a death sentence and I’d like to see it changed to maybe take 50% damage and grant it protection or something like that.

Instead of increasing the damage and targets of lightning reflexes, how about adding immob/chill removal and removing the damage entirely? I never understood why a panic button skill puts you into combat.

Condi cleanse on quickening zephyr seems strange…maybe just increase the duration or reduce the healing reduction. Although we’d have to keep an eye on this if pets ever get buffed or their AI fixed, because it makes them hit like a truck, too.

Atherakhia.4086:

Lightning Reflexes: This utility skill needs NEEDS NEEDS to break immobilize and chill. I’m also left wondering why it does such poor damage and also only hits 3 targets where most other AE utility skills hit 5?

Among the things you have mentioned I would like to see an auto-activation if we would otherwise be hit for more than 50% (33%?) of our maximum HP.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Permastowing Pets
This suggestion goes in line with my previous suggestions, which I will sum up shortly:

• Shift the damagemodel from Ranger: 70%, Pet: 30% to Ranger: 100%, Pet: Additional damage (10%)
• The pet should serve the prupose to support his master through CC and Support rather than through damage
• Investing Points into Beastmastery will shift some power back to the pet

Function:

• Stowing your pet should give you no bonuses
• You should be able to stow your pet while in fight
• You oughn’t be able to fetch your pet while in fight

Impact:

• I don’t want people to exploit the stow function to bypass all kind of AoEs
• You can stow your pet but you have to be responisble for the impact of doing so

+1 I love it.

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Permastowing Pets
This suggestion goes in line with my previous suggestions, which I will sum up shortly:

• Shift the damagemodel from Ranger: 70%, Pet: 30% to Ranger: 100%, Pet: Additional damage (10%)

I disagree here. 100% + 10% = 110% not 100%. We shouldn’t be asking to be balanced around doing 110% of what other classes do, but 100%; anything more is just asking to be op.

Perma-stow / Aspects / A utility only pet that gives the damage back to the ranger when equipped all seem like reasonable suggestions I have heard that give 100% of the damage back to the ranger.

Thighum.7295:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Permastowing Pets
This suggestion goes in line with my previous suggestions, which I will sum up shortly:

• Shift the damagemodel from Ranger: 70%, Pet: 30% to Ranger: 100%, Pet: Additional damage (10%)

I disagree here. 100% + 10% = 110% not 100%. We shouldn’t be asking to be balanced around doing 110% of what other classes do, but 100%; anything more is just asking to be op.

Perma-stow / Aspects / A utility only pet that gives the damage back to the ranger when equipped all seem like reasonable suggestions I have heard that give 100% of the damage back to the ranger.

all classes have his own damage (100%) + mechanic.

Thighum.7295:

xXxOrcaxXx.9328:

Permastowing Pets
This suggestion goes in line with my previous suggestions, which I will sum up shortly:

• Shift the damagemodel from Ranger: 70%, Pet: 30% to Ranger: 100%, Pet: Additional damage (10%)

I disagree here. 100% + 10% = 110% not 100%. We shouldn’t be asking to be balanced around doing 110% of what other classes do, but 100%; anything more is just asking to be op.

That is correct and it wouldn’t be OP at all.
Let’s take the warrior as example. Without his F1 skill, he deals 100% damage and that’s the 100% I’m reffering to. But the warrior can use his F1 and can hit for over 10k every 10 seconds. Furthermore, he can also use traits to get up to 15% more damage if his adrenaline is full.

The ranger on the other hand can’t boost his power. Also the pet wont hit all the time vs. smart enemies. Last but not least, I’m not suggesting a boonshare between pet and ranger. So if the ranger buffs himself, only the 100% will get buffed, not 110%, unlike the warrior, who will buff his whole 115% damage.

Specific Game Mode
PvE/WvW, just everything, overall balance

Proposal Overview
Some buff to weapon skills and change to Signets to allow us to get same benefits as other classes get from them

Goal of Proposal
Make weapon more viable and more fearful and Balance the ranger Signed

Proposal Functionality
Greatsword Maul: Add Blast finisher, This will allow us to be much more usefull in like wvw and pve for blasting stuff.

Longbow Rabid Fire: Rabid Fire are suppose to be a burst skill, but to be honest it does less dmg then our AA, Take Rabid Fire out and put some burst skill for it like Kill Shot on Warrior

Signet: Let the signed work on the ranger without we need to trait for it, every other classes have it, why not we?
This will allow us to put other trait in Power line. To be honest there is a lot of useful traits there so it will benefits for more builds and play style.

Associated Risks
Greatsword Maul:
I don’t really see any risk there, Guardian have this skill “Mighty Blow” on thayr hammer, same cooldown, have even more aoe range and a small leap on it, not to mention more dmg also, so no risk at all, but will help ALOT and allow oss to blast fields and be a lot more useful.

Rabid Fire For Skill like Kill Shot:
Not really a risk, Rabid Fire is useless as it is now, and adding more dmg to it wont really benefit ranger at all. Why? cos we have skills like SotH and Moment of Clarity to add to our “burst skill” but to be honest only burst skill we have is Maul.
Only think that need to do is balance the dmg, not to high and not to low.

Signed: SoS might be a little bit op, but reduce duration on SoS to match the Warrior stance is i think a must.

And btw thx for posting Allie to clarify the Permastow thing, really make me day!

Thanks<3

TheSwede.9512:

Specific Game Mode
PvE

Proposal Overview
Survival Skills and how to improve on their uniqueness

Goal of Proposal
To increase the diversity of Survival Skills, making them useful in more situations than as of now.

Proposal Functionality
Healing Spring

• Is now a Survival Skill, making it synergize better with Traits and allowing for players to Spec into its use. Possibly Increased Cooldown as an effect of this.

Lightning Reflexes

• Changed functionality. Instead of directly causing the Ranger to roll backwards, this Skill now takes on the Block Animation. If attacked, the Ranger dodges backwards, curing Cripple, Chill and Immobilize.
• Additional Skill. If the Ranger isn’t attacked, he can interrupt the Block Animation with a Lunge, similar to Warrior’s Bull’s Charge, that Stuns an enemy on impact. Range could be around 900-1200 Units.
• The idea behind this split is to allow this skill to be used both for offense and defense, while still retaining the very valuable mobility that is a Ranger’s forte. Might require an increase in Cooldown, or it could be split between the Dodge and the Lunge (It you just use the Dodge, Cooldown is 25s. If you use the Lunge, Cooldown goes up to 50s, for instance)

Muddy Terrain

• Now Knocks Down on creation instead of Immobilizing (Because Slippery mud).
• Instead now stacks Weakness (1s) with each pulse along with Cripple (Because it’s extremely tiring to move about and fight while knee-deep in mud).
• These changes are for the sake of increasing its usefulness while fighting stationary enemies, against which immobilize and cripple have little to no use. Increased Cooldown is probably required.

Sharpening Stone

• Aside from just stacking Bleeds on your target, this skill now increases the damage of your next 5 attacks by 5%, making it viable for a Power Build as well.

Quickening Zephyr

• No need to increase the effectiviness of this one.

Master of Survival

• This trait now also increases the duration of Survival Skills by 20%.

Associated Risks
Might make Survival Skills a bit too powerful, resulting in too high Cooldowns to have the same steady use they have right now.

I really like your proposals about Survival skills but I disagree with you about the risks: survival skills would benefit some buffs but there’s no need to balance them with high CD in most of the cases you spoke of.
The only skill I think should need a higher CD if implemented in the direction you suggested is Muddy Terrain. The trait for increase duration of survival skills is also a very nice thought in my opinion, I support you man!

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

Signets, traps and sprits, and some shouts – all but survival skills (there not bad)

Stone signet is the worst offender, what is the purpose of this skill if you don’t go 30 in to marks?
Signet of the Wild is not bad in bunker builds when not traited. but it active is near useless unless traited.
the Trait Enlargement requires a 50 point investment to get the full value out of it

traps are meh by them self’s but there traits are high up in a line the is of little value to them.

Spirits while the change to spirits unbound was a welcome one, there is little values to equipping a spirit unless you take the Vigorous Spirits trait

Shouts, Guard i have never found a use for this outside of natures voice.
Protect Me its tie to you pet is what makes in not so useful, if you pet is dead it does nothing if you pet is alive it kills your pet its only useful if you have a bear (which is a mostly bad pet)

I’m more than a bit disheartened to hear that making the pet optional is off the table. I haven’t played in a few months but, when I did, it was exclusively in large scale WvW and GvG – places where the pet is, without exaggeration, completely worthless. I know this thread is trying to move beyond a discussion of pets, but I want to re-emphasize that pets might need a pretty significant rework to make them viable in larger scale WvW and GvGs. If ANet is hellbent on gimping rangers as some nonsensical “sustained,” single-target DPS class, coupled with single-target DPS pets, then rangers will continue to be irrelevant and undesirable in WvW.

Earlier in the thread it was suggested that either AoE pets ought to be added, or pets need to cleave – I think that’s definitely a step in the right direction. But again, fixing pets isn’t simply a matter of improving AI, survivability, or ensuring that they’re not constantly gnawing at the wind; rather, pets need improved, meaningful, and instant F2s and ought to otherwise actually be useful and desirable. Again, this was all mentioned earlier in the thread, but since WvW is the only game mode I care about, I wanted to re-emphasize these points.

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

I think the main aspect that needs addressing besides pet is bow. Ranger bows are so mediochre it’s not funny. The bow weapons can easily be dodged/side stepped and there is so much range hate built into the game (reflecting missiles, mob agro) that it’s a big disadvantage to use a ranged weapon like a bow in many scenarios, esp PvE. It seems that ANet is still embedded in the mindset that range = safety therefore it should be a really poor damage option, but the game punishes range, bow in particular. Rangers, especially bow rangers are not welcome in many dungeon parties.

Many players want to play the archer. they like the fantasy image of that, they buy the game and role the character for that, and they pay the price of that preference by having to wander around almost in town clothes while the rest of the players do the useful stuff.

• Shouts
  • “Play Dead” – replaces – Search and Rescue
    • Revives allies from a downed state in XXX radius by sacrificing 25% of its health. The pet receives a 2 second Daze and 4 second Cripple.
  • “Heel” – replaces – Guard
    • Your pet returns to your side with a fiery vengance, causing ‘Fear’(Blast Finisher) at the initial location, then granting an AOE burning to enemy’s as it returns to your side. Breaks Stun

I’m working on the remaining two Shouts.

Atherakhia.4086:

Berk.8561:

RWinter.1680:

Goal of Proposal
In situations where the ranger is using a ranged weapon, they will frequently not receive buffs provided by party members or other allies located closer to the enemy. This would allow a ranger using ranged weapons to benefit somewhat from boons applied to their pet by group members that are closer to the enemy. It would also allow solo rangers to reliably receive boons that the pet applies to itself, if the ranger is out of the short AoE range.

I’m not sure I like the specific implementation that you proposed (I’d rather it be a simple pass-along share), but I do like the overall idea here. Since ranger pets are frequently in melee, it would be very helpful if there was a way that pets could pick up the AoE boons from other players in melee alongside them instead of the ranger having to be next to them. And that leads me to the following idea, which can also stand on it’s own:

That’s a lot of work when simply changing Fortifying Bond to work both ways would have the same overall impact. It could be overpowered because we could potentially stack 25 might on ourselves (very quickly), but our damage is so low and our burst non-existent (by design apparently) I don’t see the harm.

I would rather it simply be a pass-along share as well, but most things like that are either instant and complete like Fortifying Bond, or on the universal-ish 10 second timer like Empathic Bond. Perhaps 3 boons every 10 seconds from your pet could work, like a reverse EB, but I’ve got serious misgivings about FB working in both directions.

I was actually writing a proposal for FB doing just that (knowing that it’s probably been posted somewhere in the past 50 pages), but when I got to the “Associated Risks” section and thought about what it’d really mean for the ranger… in a stacked up melee fight, rangers could easily get twice the stacked boons, and potentially twice the boon duration of every other class.

It would be possible to check and make sure that other sources did not apply boons to both the pet and ranger at once, but potentially heavy on the server with the number of boons flying around in big fights. If you have a full party in melee, the pet would normally not get very many boons because of the AoE limit, which is why Fortifying Bond is helpful in the first place. But doubling up on the boons for melee rangers would just further encourage stacking as the dominant strategy, while not helping all that much in solo.

You’re probably right, if rangers were kept as is, and got double-boons from Fortifying Bond, there wouldn’t be much harm. But if other positive changes are made to make the class more capable, that could make rangers into nearly unstoppable synergistic killing machines. Permanent vigor, permanent protection, permanent swiftness, permanent 25 might in combat… you get the idea. I want rangers to feel good, but I don’t want them to be overpowered, or to pretend to be guardians.

infantrydiv.1620:

Specific Game Mode
Primarily PvP and WvW, but decent for PvE as well
Proposal Overview
Reverse the leaps on Ranger Sword Skill #2
Goal of Proposal
Currently the Ranger sword skill #2 leaps backwards and then forwards, the goal of the proposal would be to make the sword first leap forwards and then backwards
Proposal Functionality
Currently the sword 2 leap feels kind of wonky and useless in most situations. It’s alright because of the hard evade on it and the distance generation of the initial leap, but reversing the leaps would improve fluidity of gameplay. For example, with my proposal you could do combos like this:
Sword 2 to leap into the fight, Sword 3 to poison, Torch 5 for burning field, Sword 3 to leap out of burning field, swap to longbow or shortbow now at range.
Associated Risks
Not much, I’d say that the evade on Sword 2 could be removed if this was implemented, but keep the cripple and leap finisher.

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this idea. I am strongly opposed to it.

The argument is that the current leap order is useless in most situations. My argument would be that in fact, this would at best result in the same feeling in most situations and at worst, be even worse.

It’s highly impractical outside of things like PvP where you want to chase someone. I would be open to considering this for PvP-only, but even then…what do you do when you’re already face-to-face with your foe and they’re landing massive damage and AoE on you? You leap forward to take more damage?

Specific Game Mode
PvE

Proposal Overview
Better pet AI

Goal of Proposal
Allow pets to attack objects they currently don’t

Proposal Functionality
Right now I’m on my ranger doing map completions and the occasional event. There are still many destroyable objects (eg. Trebuchet, dredge tunneling APCs, etc.) that the pet simply won’t attack. It just stands there.

ItIsFinished.9462:

• Shouts
  • “Play Dead” – replaces – Search and Rescue
    • Revives allies from a downed state in XXX radius by sacrificing 25% of its health. The pet receives a 2 second Daze and 4 second Cripple.
  • “Heel” – replaces – Guard
    • Your pet returns to your side with a fiery vengance, causing ‘Fear’(Blast Finisher) at the initial location, then granting an AOE burning to enemy’s as it returns to your side. Breaks Stun

I’m working on the remaining two Shouts.

Don’t like your play dead thing. Heel is neat though, but the burn is excessive don’t you think? Torment at least ‘feels’ more natural. No idea how the pet caught something on fire etc. What should the cooldown be? Would have to be long considering how powerful fear is, which would then make Nature’s Voice incredibly weak without a spammable shout.

Are you planning changes to Nature’s Voice as well? Perhaps changing it to group burst heals like Warrior Shouts?

blud.8174:

infantrydiv.1620:

Specific Game Mode
Primarily PvP and WvW, but decent for PvE as well
Proposal Overview
Reverse the leaps on Ranger Sword Skill #2
Goal of Proposal
Currently the Ranger sword skill #2 leaps backwards and then forwards, the goal of the proposal would be to make the sword first leap forwards and then backwards
Proposal Functionality
Currently the sword 2 leap feels kind of wonky and useless in most situations. It’s alright because of the hard evade on it and the distance generation of the initial leap, but reversing the leaps would improve fluidity of gameplay. For example, with my proposal you could do combos like this:
Sword 2 to leap into the fight, Sword 3 to poison, Torch 5 for burning field, Sword 3 to leap out of burning field, swap to longbow or shortbow now at range.
Associated Risks
Not much, I’d say that the evade on Sword 2 could be removed if this was implemented, but keep the cripple and leap finisher.

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this idea. I am strongly opposed to it.

The argument is that the current leap order is useless in most situations. My argument would be that in fact, this would at best result in the same feeling in most situations and at worst, be even worse.

It’s highly impractical outside of things like PvP where you want to chase someone. I would be open to considering this for PvP-only, but even then…what do you do when you’re already face-to-face with your foe and they’re landing massive damage and AoE on you? You leap forward to take more damage?

Could make both leaps an evade.

blud.8174:

infantrydiv.1620:

Specific Game Mode
Primarily PvP and WvW, but decent for PvE as well
Proposal Overview
Reverse the leaps on Ranger Sword Skill #2
Goal of Proposal
Currently the Ranger sword skill #2 leaps backwards and then forwards, the goal of the proposal would be to make the sword first leap forwards and then backwards
Proposal Functionality
Currently the sword 2 leap feels kind of wonky and useless in most situations. It’s alright because of the hard evade on it and the distance generation of the initial leap, but reversing the leaps would improve fluidity of gameplay. For example, with my proposal you could do combos like this:
Sword 2 to leap into the fight, Sword 3 to poison, Torch 5 for burning field, Sword 3 to leap out of burning field, swap to longbow or shortbow now at range.
Associated Risks
Not much, I’d say that the evade on Sword 2 could be removed if this was implemented, but keep the cripple and leap finisher.

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this idea. I am strongly opposed to it.

The argument is that the current leap order is useless in most situations. My argument would be that in fact, this would at best result in the same feeling in most situations and at worst, be even worse.

It’s highly impractical outside of things like PvP where you want to chase someone. I would be open to considering this for PvP-only, but even then…what do you do when you’re already face-to-face with your foe and they’re landing massive damage and AoE on you? You leap forward to take more damage?

Just wanted to say this: in PvP, having a finisher leap available every 5 seconds would be really helpful and very strong, think of the benefits you would gain by leaping through almost every combo field you or your teammates drop.

If you’re not thinking this would help in PvP, then think of the farward leap as a good mobility skill both for moving when you’re out of combat and for chasing fast opponents trying to run away (you still would have a cripple there, so you would be able to avoid really mobile and swift build spec characters to just run away if the fight turns bad for them).

blud.8174:

infantrydiv.1620:

Specific Game Mode
Primarily PvP and WvW, but decent for PvE as well
Proposal Overview
Reverse the leaps on Ranger Sword Skill #2
Goal of Proposal
Currently the Ranger sword skill #2 leaps backwards and then forwards, the goal of the proposal would be to make the sword first leap forwards and then backwards
Proposal Functionality
Currently the sword 2 leap feels kind of wonky and useless in most situations. It’s alright because of the hard evade on it and the distance generation of the initial leap, but reversing the leaps would improve fluidity of gameplay. For example, with my proposal you could do combos like this:
Sword 2 to leap into the fight, Sword 3 to poison, Torch 5 for burning field, Sword 3 to leap out of burning field, swap to longbow or shortbow now at range.
Associated Risks
Not much, I’d say that the evade on Sword 2 could be removed if this was implemented, but keep the cripple and leap finisher.

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this idea. I am strongly opposed to it.

The argument is that the current leap order is useless in most situations. My argument would be that in fact, this would at best result in the same feeling in most situations and at worst, be even worse.

It’s highly impractical outside of things like PvP where you want to chase someone. I would be open to considering this for PvP-only, but even then…what do you do when you’re already face-to-face with your foe and they’re landing massive damage and AoE on you? You leap forward to take more damage?

We already have serpent’s strike and stalkers strike that both function better as dodges. We need a gap closer on the sword.

The best option would be to reverse the order and then remove the time limit on the second skill. You can close the gap at the start and hit some nice damage and then you have a retreat skill in reserve if you need it since we don’t need to spam gap closers with the cripple on the auto.

It gives us the best of both without any sacrifice.

Substance E.4852:

We already have serpent’s strike and stalkers strike that both function better as dodges. We need a gap closer on the sword.

The best option would be to reverse the order and then remove the time limit on the second skill. You can close the gap at the start and hit some nice damage and then you have a retreat skill in reserve if you need it since we don’t need to spam gap closers with the cripple on the auto.

It gives us the best of both without any sacrifice.

Well, you need some kind of limit on the second skill, otherwise you’d have to use it before being able to leap again. But I’d agree that increasing the timeout to 5-7 sec would work.

Specific Game Mode
PvX
Proposal Overview
Improve Pet-Ranger synergy so that it feels like the pet is fighting alongside you and not just a buggy party member, by making the pet deliberately utilize the Ranger’s CC’s and combo fields.

I am not a programmer and I don’t understand the difficulty in implementing this, but I think it’s really worth considering.
Goal of Proposal

-Improving the pet AI
-Making the pet work alongside the ranger instead of two independent fighters
-Make people feel that having pets is better than permastow

Proposal Functionality
Earlier today I was fighting against a horde of risen and while I do fine dps-wise, they were doing a ton of damage. So I put down Healing Spring and my drake immediately does its blast finisher and heals me up. It felt like my pet and I were working together and I think achieving more situations like this would make the class shine.

Again, I’m not a programmer. However, I think based on the combat situation, the pet could prioritize certain skills in its queue.

If both my pet and I are fighting the same opponent and I put down a field, it could use its blast/leap/projectile through it asap.

If I use an evade skill like sword #2 or shortbow #3, my pet (if it has it in its repertoire) could use its immobilize on my foe.

If I’ve immobilized my foe, then my pet could prioritize a high-damage, long-cast-time skill like the Lynx’s Rending Pounce.

Associated Risks
A considerable amount of development hours could be necessary. It may not be computationally feasible. It might make other classes feel disadvantaged.

I would be very pleased if only to receive feedback on this idea from others. My goal is to make people want to have a pet and to make the class feel more like what I think ANet’s goal seems to be. Perhaps there are better combos others could come up with.

Substance E.4852:

blud.8174:

infantrydiv.1620:

Specific Game Mode
Primarily PvP and WvW, but decent for PvE as well
Proposal Overview
Reverse the leaps on Ranger Sword Skill #2
Goal of Proposal
Currently the Ranger sword skill #2 leaps backwards and then forwards, the goal of the proposal would be to make the sword first leap forwards and then backwards
Proposal Functionality
Currently the sword 2 leap feels kind of wonky and useless in most situations. It’s alright because of the hard evade on it and the distance generation of the initial leap, but reversing the leaps would improve fluidity of gameplay. For example, with my proposal you could do combos like this:
Sword 2 to leap into the fight, Sword 3 to poison, Torch 5 for burning field, Sword 3 to leap out of burning field, swap to longbow or shortbow now at range.
Associated Risks
Not much, I’d say that the evade on Sword 2 could be removed if this was implemented, but keep the cripple and leap finisher.

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this idea. I am strongly opposed to it.

The argument is that the current leap order is useless in most situations. My argument would be that in fact, this would at best result in the same feeling in most situations and at worst, be even worse.

It’s highly impractical outside of things like PvP where you want to chase someone. I would be open to considering this for PvP-only, but even then…what do you do when you’re already face-to-face with your foe and they’re landing massive damage and AoE on you? You leap forward to take more damage?

We already have serpent’s strike and stalkers strike that both function better as dodges. We need a gap closer on the sword.

The best option would be to reverse the order and then remove the time limit on the second skill. You can close the gap at the start and hit some nice damage and then you have a retreat skill in reserve if you need it since we don’t need to spam gap closers with the cripple on the auto.

It gives us the best of both without any sacrifice.

Well, here’s an alternative. When out of combat, the #2 remains a leap-in. If the ranger hasn’t already used the skill and is in combat, then it changes into a leap-out first. I think everyone could be happy that way. Because after all, currently the #2 is essentially nonfunctional if you haven’t already entered combat.

blud.8174:

infantrydiv.1620:

Specific Game Mode
Primarily PvP and WvW, but decent for PvE as well
Proposal Overview
Reverse the leaps on Ranger Sword Skill #2
Goal of Proposal
Currently the Ranger sword skill #2 leaps backwards and then forwards, the goal of the proposal would be to make the sword first leap forwards and then backwards
Proposal Functionality
Currently the sword 2 leap feels kind of wonky and useless in most situations. It’s alright because of the hard evade on it and the distance generation of the initial leap, but reversing the leaps would improve fluidity of gameplay. For example, with my proposal you could do combos like this:
Sword 2 to leap into the fight, Sword 3 to poison, Torch 5 for burning field, Sword 3 to leap out of burning field, swap to longbow or shortbow now at range.
Associated Risks
Not much, I’d say that the evade on Sword 2 could be removed if this was implemented, but keep the cripple and leap finisher.

This isn’t the first time I’ve seen this idea. I am strongly opposed to it.

The argument is that the current leap order is useless in most situations. My argument would be that in fact, this would at best result in the same feeling in most situations and at worst, be even worse.

It’s highly impractical outside of things like PvP where you want to chase someone. I would be open to considering this for PvP-only, but even then…what do you do when you’re already face-to-face with your foe and they’re landing massive damage and AoE on you? You leap forward to take more damage?

What people tend to forget is that the sword #1 leaps do not only inhibit dodges but also movement. So if ANet lets you dodge within a leap, you will still not be able to move as you want.
Therefore I have also suggested to turn sword #2 into a double/triple forward jump and remove the jumps on sword #1.
To your concerns: sword #2 is pretty slow with a long animation time. You probably want to evade instead of using sword #2 to get out of the AoE. Furthermore, sword #2 has no long uptime, so you’re forced to use it almost immediately again in order to close the distance.
You can see my detailed suggestion here

Yoh.8469:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

That’s fair enough, and I’ve already said my piece on them for the most part.
There is one last this I’d like to add, is that whatever approach is taken to correct them, I’d like to see pet’s become more distinctly different both as pets but also in usage.

The Mesmer for example, while you have a bunch of different Illusions that come in every shape and size, there are a number of different ways you can use them and they are all valid. You can shatter, or use them to deceive, you can sustain damage with clones via condition damage, or direct damage with phantasms, or even heavily support your allies.

Pet’s on the other hand I find so generic, that the only real difference you would get one is because of their F2 skill, which is usually pretty generic.
You either invest in using your pet, or not. But the differences in kind just are not there.

If for example they had an Aspect of “pet” which gave a passive effect regardless of whether they are alive or not. Such as Aspect of Birds, gives you +25% projectile speed, or Aspect of Moas gives you +25% movement speed.
Something class defining that you’d want to build you build around, that you’d want that specific pet because of what it does, rather then the unnecessary tac-on’s they feel like now.

I love the idea of using pets to promote build diversity and offering rangers (and hopefully their parties) a variety of effects. Currently I can slot a bird or a pig and aside from slight DPS or tankyness differences, they don’t feel very different. They aren’t interesting for build choices. I would love to see pet families get some kind of aspect/aura that made them feel more interesting from a build variety perspective. If it only effected the ranger and its pet by default and could be traited via BM to buff the whole party it would also give PvE rangers a reason to invest in the BM line and help their parties (most BM traits are very selfish).

It would help to add depth to pet choices, it makes the pets feel like valuable allies rather than DPS leaches and it opens up options for ranges to support their party (a current weakness of rangers in PvE imo).

One of the strengths of the pet from a design perspective (imo as a non developer) is that they can be made powerful without worrying about too many being out at once. Unlike a phantasm mesmer, rangers can only have one pet at a time and access to a maximum of two pets during a fight. Sometimes I think some mesmer phantasms are more beneficial to my party than the pet is. The pet is DPS (but any class does DPS) but it struggles to do much beyond that.

Shiren.9532:

Yoh.8469:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

(Snip)
Pet’s on the other hand I find so generic, that the only real difference you would get one is because of their F2 skill, which is usually pretty generic.
You either invest in using your pet, or not. But the differences in kind just are not there.

If for example they had an Aspect of “pet” which gave a passive effect regardless of whether they are alive or not. Such as Aspect of Birds, gives you +25% projectile speed, or Aspect of Moas gives you +25% movement speed.
Something class defining that you’d want to build you build around, that you’d want that specific pet because of what it does, rather then the unnecessary tac-on’s they feel like now.

I love the idea of using pets to promote build diversity and offering rangers (and hopefully their parties) a variety of effects. Currently I can slot a bird or a pig and aside from slight DPS or tankyness differences, they don’t feel very different. They aren’t interesting for build choices. I would love to see pet families get some kind of aspect/aura that made them feel more interesting from a build variety perspective. If it only effected the ranger and its pet by default and could be traited via BM to buff the whole party it would also give PvE rangers a reason to invest in the BM line and help their parties (most BM traits are very selfish).

It would help to add depth to pet choices, it makes the pets feel like valuable allies rather than DPS leaches and it opens up options for ranges to support their party (a current weakness of rangers in PvE imo).

This sounds like how an ele’s attunement can be traited to put an aura on party members; I don’t see how the one would be OP and this not. I don’t think I would use it on a ranger, but it’s certainly an interesting idea.

Muzical.1396:

Shiren.9532:

Yoh.8469:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, I don’t want this thread to be entirely about pets. We’ve seen a ton of great feedback about them, and I would like to hear more about utilities that need help (and aren’t viable unless spec’d into) as I haven’t seen as much on that front!

Thanks all

(Snip)
Pet’s on the other hand I find so generic, that the only real difference you would get one is because of their F2 skill, which is usually pretty generic.
You either invest in using your pet, or not. But the differences in kind just are not there.

If for example they had an Aspect of “pet” which gave a passive effect regardless of whether they are alive or not. Such as Aspect of Birds, gives you +25% projectile speed, or Aspect of Moas gives you +25% movement speed.
Something class defining that you’d want to build you build around, that you’d want that specific pet because of what it does, rather then the unnecessary tac-on’s they feel like now.

I love the idea of using pets to promote build diversity and offering rangers (and hopefully their parties) a variety of effects. Currently I can slot a bird or a pig and aside from slight DPS or tankyness differences, they don’t feel very different. They aren’t interesting for build choices. I would love to see pet families get some kind of aspect/aura that made them feel more interesting from a build variety perspective. If it only effected the ranger and its pet by default and could be traited via BM to buff the whole party it would also give PvE rangers a reason to invest in the BM line and help their parties (most BM traits are very selfish).

It would help to add depth to pet choices, it makes the pets feel like valuable allies rather than DPS leaches and it opens up options for ranges to support their party (a current weakness of rangers in PvE imo).

This sounds like how an ele’s attunement can be traited to put an aura on party members; I don’t see how the one would be OP and this not. I don’t think I would use it on a ranger, but it’s certainly an interesting idea.

Yes, I certainly would like to see an option if a buff like this existed, to be able to trait it to effect your party members. Because time and again we see the Ranger getting left out of groups because it really doesn’t bring much to the table.
(maybe this wouldn’t be the case if Spirits weren’t so unbelievably fragile)

If you could buff your party with ‘Aspect of Felines’ you attack 10% faster, there are going to be situations where that could be highly valued.

urdriel.8496:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

urdriel.8496:

Stealth doesnt have a counter -> Thieves can spam stealth -> profit.

Stealth does have a counter, or at least there are ways of handling those perma-stealthed thieves. I think there were threads about it all over Reddit and the forums ages ago discussing how to handle it.

The general consensus was “don’t panic and try to anticipate”.

how to handle means that doesnt have a counter, you cant counter what you cant see, you can guess, but guessing is not a counter.

I call counter a reveal skill.

Well, last time I played a game with PvP where such a thing existed (negate invisibility/stealth) it pretty much made it near pointless to do one or the other. That game was UO, where “hiding” and invisibility had a counter in “detect hidden” (which wasn’t as useful as it sounds) and “Reveal (spell)” which was more useful (could not fail) but still had the same limit the skill did. Namely, it was so small a target effect it didn’t really help.

Not that it mattered much if it could detect hidden things screen-wide. Very savvy players made finding them when hidden to be a moot point. Much like how savvy players right now both make stealth incredibly useful . . . and not.

It should be worth noting if there is a “reveal skill” and it’s given just to Rangers? We’re going to run into a problem since it almost completely hoses one family of Thief builds and more than a few “save me!” buttons the Mesmer can use to get out of problems. And, well, the usefulness of a one-shot Reveal on someone who can pop stealth again quicker than we can Reveal makes it almost a waste of skill. Especially . . . if they’re in stealth, they’re not attacking. If they’re not able to stealth and are attacking then there’s no need to worry about a Reveal. It’s time to worry about staying from getting downed.

(Because once downed, they stealth and stomp while in stealth with no chance of breaking that up.)

RECAP on PET Suggestions
-1. Remove the pet entirely and give ranger a different mechanic

0. Do what ever can be done to improve the pets functionality (various suggestions for this one, not recapping here)

1. Make ‘stow pet’ a perma stow, nothing else (bare bone stow)

2. Make ‘stow pet’ a perma stow, give rangers a straight buff to damage through stats or a specific [you have stowed your pet, +X% damage buff skill specific for rangers]

3. Make ‘stow pet’ a perma stow, giving rangers an aspect buff based on the pet family stowed.

4. Make every F-key summon a pet the Ranger choose to link to it. These pets are ‘summoned’ to assist the Ranger for a period of time and then de-spawn.
(could be augmented with a ‘non combatant’ pet linked to the ‘pet portrait’-button, this ‘non combatant pet’ de-spawns on agro, so combat pets can be summoned). For the time a pet is summoned, the F-keys could turn into the current ones, to give the ranger control over the pet.

5. Pets become a ‘utility skill’ just like in GW1 (possibly even 3), and Rangers get a new profession mechanic.

6. Likely I forgot a specific idea for the pet, though from memory, most other suggestions are a permutation of some of the above. Either with more details, rules to the mechanic, or a tad different functionality.

Analysis of the Suggestions
-1. So many people would dislike this, that even for most ‘stow favourable’ rangers, this is not an option. But hey, it was suggested.

0. Should be done anyways, for those that do not want a stow, or to improve reliability of #4. It would increase creatures around Tyria as well, likely increasing our gameplay. (a full separated AI rework is said to be very unlikely). This may not solve the issue entirely, and doesn’t offer a solution to ‘other wants’ expressed in this CDI.

1. Sounds like the least amount of work, would be great for jumping puzzles, doesn’t do much else really, and makes the Ranger loose 25-35% effectiveness (if not more) if used in combat, due to various traits and skills being less function, weapon effects not being used, and obviously the pet not doing anything.

2 & 3. Are somewhat the same, with the difference that the aspect idea is far more elaborate and interesting as a game mechanic. While #2 is pretty much not more than a rough work-around the pet. Still though, both these mechanics suffer from the same setbacks as #1, traits not working, weapon combos with pet not working. #3-aspects may also complicate things for newer users, all of a sudden the profession mechanic has 2 things going on.

4. Increases the amount of pets available to the ranger from 2 on a swap to 4 on a cool-down, it has an inherent stow mechanic in it. It would add an element of surprize. It can be combined with a non-combatant pet that could display way more animals than can be used in combat (bees, butterflies, parrot, minis even). A lot of the traits can stay as they are, and serve to improve the pet when it is called upon, if the user traits for them. The pet can be balanced more according to a profession mechanic, as the pet is only active for a certain duration, and could be made a lot sturdier as well due to the cool down. Weapon combos only reduce effectiveness on pet cool down (which comes close to them being now, if two pets die and you are left without a pet for a minute). And with an addition of a swap to the F-keys to control keys to the pet, it stays very close to the original mechanic.

5. Would solve most things too, pets just become a choice, the traits would still work as would traiting for beast mastery. Controlling the pet(s) would be a lot harder though, as a new mechanic would take over the F-keys. Likely on the following functionality would be possible. A pet window in the UI would let you slot a pet to a signet. When you load the signet on the bar the pet is there. The signet itself would function as a toggle, for ‘aggressive/heel’ functionality, and shouts would be used to further ‘utilize’ the pet. It would keep it’s own skills but they would all be AI controlled. If the pet dies, the skill could go into a recharge and turn into a resurrect pet.

Now to me the choice is fairly obvious at this moment at least, but feel free to form your own opinion. Just make sure that when you talk about pets, you talk about all solutions and not just those that fit the point you want to make. It felt somewhat silly to read those 2 pages, going over merely 2 solution to the pet, as if it was the end all. I do not blame those participating though, hey 58 pages so far, I am fairly sure I miss about 20 somewhere in the middle… HENCE, I give you this small recap, now you are up to speed on the options for a ‘perma stow’ and you can discuss them honestly next to each other.

Phalaphone.1642:

Anet has defined classes based off of several core abilities, Ranger’s being the pet. Anet decided to define Tyria’s rangers (at least in this installment) as pet wielding classes. Many people have expressed feeling that this forces them to play a beast-master rather than a ranger (any of interpretation of the thematic idea) and suggest permastowing to allow them to play the other roles. There are often other cries that no other class is forced to play with their class mechanic and none are punished by its existence. I have several problems with this train of thought:
First, permastowing is a band-aid solution, it ignores the problems of the pet and hides them under the rug. Also it allows a class to ignore its class mechanic,the aspect the makes each class unique. Some suggestions to remove the pet and make it an option redefines the classes identity (forcing Anet to give it a new class mechanic) this would force beastmasters into a role similar to mm necros.

For the notion of being punished by our class mechanic, every class is more or less. Thieves are squishy because their mechanic promotes a more mobile game play (with a free guaranteed gap closer) and both the engi and ele lose a weapon set if they ignore their class mechanic. The engi’s weapons lack support because they get it through some kits and toolbelt skills. The only exception is the warrior, if talented the warrior can be rewarded for ignoring his class mechanic (this is a different problem for a different day). The problem with the pet is the amount we are punished. A 70:30 split will not be solved (while following Anet’s design) with permastowing. The key is for the base pet to deal less damage (still it will need to be tankier than it is now, an unspec’ed pet should still have uses). This means that the beast master line should increase the effectiveness of the pet exponentially. The 70:30 or even 60:40 split should be the goal of 100% damage beastmaster split where as a mm, skirmisher should look more like 90:10 (maybe 95:5). This also would mean that going into beast master line should greatly increase (through major traits so its either or not both) support, control, and damage. This means that a non beast master would be free to choose a cat for top dps or a support moa and see his numbers waver only a couple percent (3-5%). Where as the beastmaster specced should see much bigger dps from a cat and much better support from a moa. This would be accomplished through the base stats, inheritance of stats from ranger, and the best master line’s special stat. Since Allie has stated that she did bring this up to the dev’s (the stat inheritance), I believe if done effectively it would allow for the multiple archetypes of the rangers to exist.

I’d suggest you look into this post of mine which briefly outlines this problem many, many pages ago. Most people suggesting for perma-stow are implying that BM potential increases to counteract this, and nobody is arguing against better pet hitboxes/responsiveness. People simply want more options, and forcing that, especially when it’s one which defines styles of play, not just flavor or cool bonuses, but actual styles of play (archer/skirmisher versus beastmaster are two immensely different roles in which immensely different players perform/enjoy such roles. I want to also make it clear that suggestions regarding perma-stow are not the same as total removal of the mechanic. Both types of play styles should be encouraged but due to their immense difference must be kept separate.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Collaborative-Development-Ranger-Profession/page/35#post3710750

This is where I began posting, and I believe about six pages back Allie seemed to clearly read another one of my posts explaining this phenomenon and mentioned that more options for archers in the game do need to be considered as the game does not fill that role:

Again, it’s not about people just getting desperate as much as it is people simply wanting to pursue alternatives in order to play the archer role. The reason why the demand is so high for permastowing is because it resolves the archer problem totally and in the best way possible while at least providing a band-aid fix for beastmasters while the Beastmastery, Nature Magic, and Wilderness Survival lines are reworked to better allow for more supportive pet-oriented builds.

Allie Murdock.8152:

DarksunG.9537:

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, you guys can’t see this due to the limitations of formatting on our forums, but a lot of these points were made by many of you guys. As such, they are much more emphasized in the email threads and discussions we have internally.

Allie Has there been any feedback from the team on making Pets more unique? Dyable, Armor, packs, something more about the visual customization?

I wasn’t a part of the discussions for initial design of pets, but I will ask about this. I can say that adding armor or anything visual for that matter can take a long time (think of all the pets there are, and the specific movement each of them have, it’s a long process!).

Agreed. I’m wondering if they can do something like allowing certain existing backpacks to be worn on a pet harness like this:
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v1/621104579_1/10pcs-pet-font-b-dog-b-font-font-b-backpack-b-font-multi-functional-font-b.jpg
I would hope at least there would be far more of the existing mobs as pets after a year & a half: Griffons, Wooly Saimoth, Raptors, Marmox & Plated Behemoths (really want those last 2!).

As for Ranger changes: the #1 on the Single Hand sword is awful. being rooted for no reason totally kills positional gameplay & it needs to go. There isn’t even any kind of trade off for being so immobile. It’s not that we should just be able to dodge, that’s just a given. It’s that we shouldn’t be immobilized at all. I would love to use sword but that alone is enough for me to never touch it. it’s horrid.