Guild Wars 2

Thieves are OP. can take 10 people 10 minutes to kill one.

I don’t have any class that can run into 10 people, and survive for 10 minutes.

Hell, the some thieves can kill those 10 people, before 10 minutes, because they can hit so hard.

Stal.8754:

Other classes complain about mesmer = fix within 24 hours.

Mesmers complain about many big bugs with our skills/traits = nothing. Or possibly months go by, then they make it worse. Yay.

We’re not Warriors?

EverythingEnds.4261:

lvis.3824:

this is normal nowadays – look at this img …. crazy, this happend in 1sec

Btw, am I the only one, who is more impressed by the illusionary riposte, than by the Swordsmen?

It certainly shows how glassy they both were.

I dunno if it’s gonna be the grandmaster trait they’re talking about, and while I’m HOPING it’s gonna replace Wastrel’s Punishment, I won’t hold my breath… but putting the trait ANYWHERE in the domination line is painful, Halting Strike/Mental Torment/Empowered Illusions/Shattered Concentration/Traited Torch/Harmonious Mantras/Confounding Suggestions.. ughh.

Ancestors Visage
Trait: Inspiration 5 Minor (replaces Vengeful Images)
Grants Phantasms retaliation when hit.
Internal Cooldown: 10s

• Retaliation(5s): Reflect incoming damage back to its source.

Web of Disruption
Elite Skill: (replaces Moa Morph)
Place a web of disruption on the ground that removes stability and causes random effects to disable your foes.
Casttime: 1/2s
Cooldown: 150s

• Web duration: 10 seconds
• Interval: 2s
• Range: 900
• Radius: 240

• Fear(1s): flee
• Daze: 1 second
• Stun: 1 second
• Knockdown: 1 second
• Launch: 450
• Knockback: 300

Nero.8623:

It should read like this:

5,754steal 2,826cloak-dagger DISTORTION

No, it should read:

5,754steal 2,826cloak-dagger DISTORTION 11k Backstab

They don’t care if you invu, they can just try again 1sec later, a missed backstab doesnt break stealth…

It’s WvW, not GvG. Not sure what you expect. You think people are just going to leave it alone when they’re trying to play the game as intended? Anet or not, you’re going to get grief for wasting everyone else’s time in wvw by sitting there and not contributing.

I think it’s clear to everyone except to several thieves that this profession is poorly balanced at the moment.

This is especially clear when all that can be said to defend the thief is “lol l2p”. I’d have to ask: why should I need to “l2p” after months mastering my elementalist, playing piano with my keyboard to be able to use all my 20 skills, trying to hit with my slow and predictable burst, when a random thief does not needs to “l2p” to do a lot more with a lot less button presses, while he is stealthed to boot?

The backstab/ heartseeker thief is, at the moment, the noob profession – with due respect to the thief pros. It’s extremely easy to get any results with it, and your opponent must play really well to stand a chance. It’s contraditory to demand your opponents to “l2p” when you’re using a cheap build that rarely puts you in such a situation where you must play as well as others to kill anything.

I leveled thief to around 60 in WvW and deleted it. It’s just stupidly overpowered profession for WvW.
Insane survivability with sick damage, I don’t see how that’s balanced at all.

Against a good thief you have to play pretty much flawlessly to survive, and thieves can just screw up and get away with it. It’s actually kinda amusing.

Well after running around in the new areas of the map for queens jubilee with a base of 3400 power and 67% Crit chance with phantasmal fury. My zerker only hits for a max of 7-8k on a legendary target that had 25 stacks of vuln on it. Meanwhile my friend is pistolwhipping it for 20k and a warrior is 100bladesing for 17k. There is a huge disparity between mesmer dps/burst in pvp and pve and other classes.

Edit: And my ranger longbow number 2 hits for 10k in pvp. Once again mesmer doesn’t hold a candle even with a similar number set.

You know, ive been trying really hard not to complain because I keep taking a month off and coming back, but this last time ive come back….

I just cant stand my mesmer. I do WvW more than PVP because I havent been playing enough to keep up with all the new builds, but I plan too. However, my mesmer has felt worthless lately. Ive never been best with my mes, but I was always decent and lately I feel like im at a disadvantage. My Thief Ranger and Ele all get the job done way better. Mesmer is my fav class to play but it makes me sad I cant compete. Mesmer is def better than I think it is, but I feel like Shatters dont scare people anymore and anyone can out condition me. I fought a burst ele last night over and over and just was just able to own me no matter what I did and it really had me thinking. Warriors are giving me a huge problem now too. Ugh I dunno sorry for complaining didnt mean too

Master of Timespace.2548:

But GW2 is in an interesting place b/c its emphasis on Interrupts rather than chain stuns.

As a gw1 mesmer / ranger player, I have only 1 word for that: lol.

+1

Sometimes i wonder what would have been Gw1 if it had this community of whiners instead of the more mature one that grew there.

GW1 Mesmer, if properly played, was a nightmare.
-You’re healing? Interrupt!
-You’re attacking? There we go, Emphaty. Stop slapping yourself!
-You’r*rupt* oh, i took your mana, sorry for that.
-Where are you thinking to run? Crippling Anguish!
-How are you so nicely stacked toghether! Panic or Fevered Dreams.
-Self protection with a enchant – stripped your enchantement. Ah, and aoe dmg with that.
-I see you like to spam that Heal… here, pick up this +72 seconds of CD.
-Look, so many conditions on you! Let’s share those with your friends! Epidemic

Seriously, GW1 mesmer ability to control the field puts all the GW2 professions stacked toghether in shame.

GW2 mesmer is much more oriented on dmg – not a problem per se. Issue is, it’s getting bunked more and more each month.

There’s another MMO out there which has an almost identical class to Mesmer. It’s called Allods Online, and it’s counterpart class was called the Psionicist.

Functionally and thematically they’re very similar, able to use telekinetics to move and bunch up foes, create decoy illusions and bend space and time with their minds. Like Mesmer their strong control abilities meant they they were great in 1 on 1 and team PvP scenarios, but their lack of strong AoE and complex skill chains made them a little weak in PvE and as a result they were one of the more underplayed classes.

And I come with a warning from the future!

You see, just like Moa pisses people off today, and portal could be potentially abused. So too could the psionicist’s counterpart skills – like 10 second AoE chain stuns. Like the mesmer, the class was actually built AROUND these concepts, without the ability to do this they were defenceless, yet when they did them in PvP, it caused much QQ – they wern’t even the strongest PvP class by a long shot, they were more of a force multiplier, but people really don’t like losing control, and a control class like Psion or Mesmer is a class designed to do just that.

Every patch, Psi would be nerfed – the Psionicists would of course protest this pointing out how increasingly unplayable PvE was becoming. But every other class was constantly screaming NERF PSIS at the top of their lungs.

This continued patch after patch, month after month – any single nerf was never that big, but it happened insidiously and constantly for an entire year

12 months later, there were just 1 or 2 viable builds for the class and so few people on the North American servers played Psionicists they were literally known by name to the other players, they were in high demand in PvE fior their unique control talents, but supply was almost non-existant as levelling one was like pulling your own teeth out.

Eventually they introduced a simple cross-class option where players could take one of a small list of skills from another class, unsurprisingly the psionicists signature control ability was one of the most popular and it this stage there was no point rolling a psi at all and the class finally disappeared into obscurity.

Mesmer’s still alive and healthy at this stage – sure some people find them tricky to play in PvE but they are still very strong played properly. But I’m worried – every patch so far we’ve seen nerf after nerf and barely caught a single break. I’ve seen this happen before, and I don’t want to see it happen again, I love this style of gameplay far too much to see the cycle repeat itself.

The psi formerly known as Mindhack (Nezeb server)

Godmoney.2048:

Hmm, with 1530 condi damage it’kittenting for about 4500, and a additional 4500 if they run.

I feel it hits pretty hard all things considered. I am really liking it I got to say, but I need a couple more days with it to really have a valid opinion.

It does seem to scale very well with condi damage almost so much so I think scepter now requires condi gear to be worth while

What mesmer runs 1530 condition damage these days? Completely impractical after the confusion nerf. And I hate to break it to you, but no one’s gonna buy all condition gear for one torment application off a block on scepter.

I moved from a shatter spec mesmer to a hybrid balance mesmer, because I really wanted to diversify myself.

However, like others, I believe this change would just actually make me go back to the old and boring 30 pt illusions shatter build that I had tried to get away from in the first place.

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

fadeaway.2807:

If they nerf shatter and blurred frenzy next, we’ll have nothing left.

You know, I’d stop playing Guild Wars 2 altogether… and that’s no bluff.

We have mind wrack and deceptive evasion left!!!! Luckily my fav mes builds are shatter builds (one of them is already dead confusion shatter) so i’ll accept IC nerf BUT if they nerf Mind Wrack and mostly important of them all, deceptive evasion, i won’t even come to this forum to express my feelings, just uninstall the game and don’t look back. DE nerf is probably the only skill that IF nerfed im out, and you know what? i think it will happen because there been hundreds of people crying cuz mes is like a clone factory… I just hope this happens after ps4 is released so i could quit for BF4 or something like that…

Just reward laurels since they now have value in WvW.

With ascended armor and weapons hopefully not too far off in the future, laurel awarded ascended armor could compete with PvE awarded ascended armor and weapons.

Winning server gets 10 for anyone who gained a WvW rank above level 10.
2nd gets 6 for anyone who gained a WvW rank above level 10.
3rd gets 4 for anyone who gained a WvW rank above level 10.

Then we could add some more interested things to the Laurel system too. Things like more guild styled items so being in a guild actually offered some level of pride at the very least (since we all know guilds and even parties in this game are 100% useless). If player/guild housing ever gets introduced we could buy guild merrits with laurels so the guild could buy stuff to upgrade. etc etc.

IMO, the main problem with thieves is they can endlessly reset a fight until they get the desired outcome.

To NYS, AFS, SAHP, SATY, HIRE, IRON, OCX, SEA, OCN, EU & NA militia

Thank you for putting the effort to keep garrison afloat last night during SOR SEA prime (9-12pm GMT+8).

We lost garrison. But it was a good fight, in fact it was a brilliant fight. What was important was that you guys didn’t give up and didn’t surrender even against the odds.

Win or lose, the only thing that matters is that you did your best.

And for that you are honored.

FW

On another note, please send your repair bills to you-know-who.

the question by the Op is..
How to counter get out of jail free button?
the answer..?
no one answered it.. or.. there actually no counter whatsoever..

Bacon Please.8407

Congrats, he ran away. you won.

I cannot agree with this statement. If he ‘won’, then why does the Thief not have to pay repair costs, walk back from the WP, and where is Ralathar’s loot bag?

Edit: And what’s to stop the Thief from coming back again, and again, and again until he wins?

Edit: Alright, in sPvP, this is a win (sort of). You get to cap the point, and the Thief does not. In WvW, where all the complaints are? How can it be construed as ‘winning’ in any way?

Lots of good conversation on the matter of how to fight a thief – not knocking it, I actually have an 80 thief myself just so I could learn what makes ‘em tick, and I still learn new things every time I dive into the forums. One thing I haven’t seen anyone bring up, though, is the matter of how to defend unwalled objectives from thieves (i.e. flags, yaks, & camps). It might seem a minor quibble, but hear me out.

Suppose I’m trying to babysit a yak to a tower or a keep that desperately needs to resupply after barely fending off an assault. Doors/walls just put back up, supply almost empty after building defensive siege, everyone scattered to find out where that zerg-ball’s rollin’ up to next. Nobody wants to babysit yaks. Nobody but me.

Along comes a thief, peppering the yak with shots. Yak don’t fight back, but that’s OK – I do, and that’s exactly what I’m here for. Except the thief doesn’t engage me – so my guardian’s retaliation, my mesmer’s chaos armor, my engineer’s healing, all my defensive abilities are rendered useless (except AoE projectile reflection [feedback, shield of absorption, smoke screen, etc.], but those abilities have 30-40 second cooldowns). Well, my engineer’s healing is actually useful, it’s AoE so I can heal the yak. But even still, it won’t keep up with the DPS of a thief, and I know for sure that the thief is going to evade out of my AoEs and circle around to attack from whatever direction I happen not to be facing. I put ’em up just the same and do my best, but still, the yak is inexorably killed along the road.

And yeah, while some kind of lockdown would certainly do the trick, it requires actually getting hold of the sucker, and the point of thieves is to be slippery: while I’m out of stealth, I still have disabling shot, infiltrator’s arrow, infiltrator’s strike, shadow strike, withdraw, roll for initiative, shadow step/return, smoke screen, and dodge rolling to get in & out of combat without taking damage. Obviously I can’t use them all at once, but there are so many options to evade attacks that don’t even use stealth.

If I’m on my guardian, I can chain blinds & blocks for a while – but if I don’t kill anyone in all that time, I’m getting the living kittens kicked outta me as soon as my guard’s down. My mesmer & engineer have decent buffer tanks, between their various boons & heals, but they can only last for so long until I’m stuck between rotations. Thieves and thieves alone can pop in & out of combat indefinitely, picking an objective off right from under my feet, while I have no way to force an engagement without relying on luck (such as nailing them with a lucky AoE, or waiting for them to screw up – there’s nothing I can do to force the issue).

And if my mesmer goes down, I just have to wait for the stealth stomp, because my 1, 2, & 3 abilities all require targets. But really, that’s just the icing on the cake.

Point being, I can’t stop a thief from shooting a yak out from under me, even if I’m a thief. Same goes for a flag, and a supply camp is just a joke. Sure, I can hang out in the middle of the NPCs to not die; but as soon as I walk away, that camp’s getting solo’ed. I’d like to be able to do something proactive, instead of simply hoping the thief 1) gets bored, and 2) doesn’t come back after I reckon the coast is clear. My problem is not that thieves can only be effectively engaged on their terms – that’s how they’re designed, and that’s fine. My problem is that thieves can engage what I’m trying to protect without engaging me. And yeah, as in the original post, traps are useless here because I can’t possibly trap a whole camp or a whole yak route or even a whole flag’s perimeter – again, I have to rely on luck if I want that trap to pay off (and the cost just isn’t worth the risk).

So, because of all of that, stealth needs a counter.

style.6173:

Wow, wtf? Weren’t you wearing any armor OP? I can’t remember dying to a thief anytime recently.

btw, you know that backstab and mug are the same in PvP and WvW right?

The 7k dmg from cloak and dagger part of the combo hits harder in wvw. It was nerfed by 50% in pvp.
Also Food buffs and oils allow for higher burst dmg from all 3 hits of the combo.

And if the target survives the first wave, the second wave of cloak and dagger+backstab will hit them 25% sooner due to shorter revealed.

These are the main differences I can see with the OPs screenshot.

Just play thief like every other unskilled roamer who needs a forgiving, easy mode class to survive when they do dumb things.

On the cost, I really hope by ‘discounted’ laurels they are talking 5-10 laurels for each piece not 20-25 laurels…

Given a choice between 1)20 laurels, 250 badges of honour or 2)10 laurels, 500 badges of honour.

I think everyone would prefer the 2nd, because you can farm the badges of honour and it encourages people to play more WvW. If laurels are the main limiting factor then there is no point playing beyond your daily/monthly really…so no need to play more WvW…

Its a lot more ALT friendly and those of us with all 8 classes need some love…

Forzani.2584:

Most people can handle losing. They know they will never be the best player but still have fun. Thieves suck the fun right out of WvW

Win or lose, for most people, it’s not fun fighting an enemy that can constantly go invisable.

/Thread.

This really hits the heart of the matter and the core of the problem.