Guild Wars 2

Sensotix.4106:

i dont have to upload such a video just check the pax finale where lady nag nag nag pwns everything

Most of the big plays going into PAX were coming from the engineers(Elixir R and Big Ol’ Bomb, specifically)…not really sure why you would site a single tournament match as evidence for any class adjustment anyway.

Lightsbane.9012:

last but not least, it is a great class that requires a significant amount of understanding of the game to truly master. this is not the case of 6/8 of the rest of the classes.

Kinda curious what the other class is that your referring to

Lighter.5631:

BAMBOO.9430:

Doopslayer.2304:

throw some aoes down and he will die.

Theorycraft. Or is it “theorywars” now? Sorry, either way.
(…)

dude, you should try what he said 1st, for real. if you still dont have your opinion changed,all i have to say is l2p

Hate to be “that guy”, but I play both of these classes to some success.
Kind of a silly assumption to make that warriors don’t also play thieves and thieves don’t also play warriors.

I believe i’m pretty good on these two (Granted, i make no claims to be the best or anything). Been playing MMO’s since before everquest launch, at this point I play everything pretty well. There is obviously room for improvement. We can all improve, no matter how good we are, to be honest.
…etc(it should be pretty clear where i’m going)

When I or another thief( or a warrior, a mesmer or w/e) comes through and says that “A good player has a good chance of anticipating your panic AoE spam”, you should consider that advice and also consider taking your own advice in light of that information.

As a simple closing statement, I don’t even play dagger MH that often, Sword/d setups are in a much better place right now, to be perfectly honest. Anyway, the point is that it’s still a pretty stealth reliant playstyle. I see and avoid panic spam every day. It’s not that hard to evade or just wait it out.

Try it yourself, roll a level 1 thief if you don’t have one yet, que up on spvp, load up on stealths, engage some lone guy on a point, pop an early BlindingPowder/ShadowRefuge/ShadowTrap then just roll away and watch the behavior. After some practice and observation of the people your fighting, you’ll learn to predict their reactions (dose the warrior even have a hammer equiped? Has he been equip swaping? you should know before you engage).

Then again, on my warrior, I do the same type of things to thieves. My point here isn’t to support the “thieves are imba” argument, just that the simpleminded “when X happens, do Y, then you win” logic is incredibly flawed. Sure, it’s a good start, and you do get better, but it’s never going to be a lasting solution.

As you get better, so does the other player.

Doopslayer.2304:

throw some aoes down and he will die.

Theorycraft. Or is it “theorywars” now? Sorry, either way.

On the every class side of things it goes something like this:
You spot a thief and engage quickly before he stealths
He takes a couple hits then you see a poof of smoke
Then you have to roll, ability or AoE cause the BS is coming
(But it doesn’t necessarily end here)
The thief is experienced, so he also rolls/evades or just waits it out
Fight resets, your down stamina and/or cool downs

People, ever since early MMO’s have always liked to assume that beating a thief/assassin/rogue is a simple question of a certain skill threshold. The problem is that it is completely absent of the consideration that the stealth/lockdown class in question could also pass a certain skill threshold to negate those counters.

For every thread here about “how do you beat a thief with X”, there is a thread of a learned play style that accomplishes “how do you beat X with a thief”.

As a warrior, you say earthshaker at your feet. As a Thief, I may say roll through the earthshaker for the attack (or trait for the blind and ignore it entirely). But then the warrior could say trait for the attack on roll(or shout build) to counter the blind and evade the stab attempt before the AoE. And then the thief could say …etc.

Apollo.7583:

Corrupt Boon…

Because every necro should run corrupt boon, epidemic and signet of undeath…

Boon hate as an optional trait makes more sense to me then forcing utilities.

Nord.5360:

BAMBOO.9430:

Snip.

GW2Guru’s SOTG is sPvP focused. That would probably explain why we talked about sPvP.

Cheers!

Ahh, point taken.
I assumed that state of the game was, well, the state of the game.

Not that talking about s/tPvP is a bad thing.

This…

Kiriakulos.1690:

Kiriakulos.1690:

Interviewers suggest and borderline beg for at least 4 buffs besides questioning the fact that dodge denies marks, still question the choice of no swap in DS.
Devs – Eh… we dunno, Necros might become too strong or something I guess…

I’m still convinced that the Devs are slightly clueless about Necros.

That 5th DS skill better blow me away.

I LOLed at that part.

Paraphrased-

Interviewer:
“So, is it fair that a Necro can set all his marks out and I can just dodge through them all and destroy them with nothing bad happening to me?”

ANet Dev:
“Well, why wouldn’t you spread them out more and put the shorter CD ones in the front”

Or perhaps…

Interviewer:
“Have you considered making Greater Marks come stock with staff, since nobody uses staff without it?”

ANet Dev:
“Are you trying to say that staff stinks without the trait?”

Interviewer:
“….yes.”

ANet Dev:
“mutter..mutter…looking into it…”

and this…

Just listened to the Necromancer section.

“So offer some suggestions about what you want to see as that new condition / fifth slot.”

They have no idea what they’ve brought upon themselves.

Means that they really have no idea what the necro class is or where it stands.
Really, more of the “Its fine, L2P” coming from this dev team. Kinda the whole design premise I guess, small changes and long waits for the meta to stabilize.
Really, we’re not going to see much as long as the social understanding is that “WvW needs necros.”

Also, why was the state of the game all about spvp. Seriously, 90% of the changes discussed and commentary by ‘the devs’ and guru were in direct reference to pvp. Biggest departure from this was “We’re removing pet agro and increasing pet health and responsiveness so they open more play styles.” And, the immediate response was, “Uhh how is that going to balance when rangers sit on the back node and send their pet to help in the center fight?”

Maybe they don’t spectate LFG chat for fractals … or they would see a more comprehensive meta.

Honestly, I was very hopeful that necro would gain some boon hate “down the pipeline.” Hey, maybe that’s my idea for ‘Number 5’: Corruption, does (X) damage over (Y) second and increases in (Z%) damage and durration for each boon and condition effect on the target.

Maybe its time to play the mesmer more.

Rainbow.3496:

Lictor Alpha.3724:

RapidSausage.4620:

i’m sorry, ele?? worst pve profession??, what game have you been playing!?

The game were a single NPC can kill me in 3 hits. The game were it takes me 20+ spells to kill a single NPC. The game were a warrior can just pop god mode, argo 10 NPCs, and kill them all in 1 attack. A game were my lvl 11 warrior does more damage with thousand blades then any of my lvl 53 elemental’s spells.

Not to be mean, but you sir are an idiot. Elementalist is literally the most OP profession in the game easily, and by far the highest skill cap (thief is as good but lower skill cap/capabilities). You clearly lack the knowledge of how to build/ what a build is, if you find yourself doing better on warrior anywhere. If your bringing up the whole , “HUNDRED BLADES OP TT”, then i am sad to inform you that if you cant dodge a bull rush, evade a warrior standing still HBing, or an NPC; then this is not the game for you. Please go play more or find out more about your own class before you spew blasphemy on the forums.

He has been talking about PvE.
The comment you Quoted is about NPC’s who don’t roll and PvE.

I can understand that warriors as a class, we can be somewhat defensive. Particularly about 100b easy mode ownage claims, as you demonstrated. But, you need to take more time to consider the discussion here before snapping.

OP, in terms of your question, ele’s are pretty strong in WvW and not just the roaming DD variety that has everyone screaming overpowered. As for being less than ideal for general PvE, well, like someone else said earlier, they may not be your style.

Since we are mentioning them, warriors have a very different style. If that’s the profession that you notice being successful, then I suggest you try one out. You may like it more. However, rest assured that they have their challenges as well. All classes do.

Aridia.3042:

Quit now while you’re ahead and save yourself some time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hByqoWsnz-I

Start at 13:30. They flat out said things are not going to be changed drastically.

So yes, Jon Peters lied. Come back in a year or so and check it again. This class is not going to be fixed in one patch, if at all.

Just like the game, you need to give youtube video time.
At around 19 mins in he talks more about the general design theory they operate with and cites examples from GW2, Starcraft and the like.

I’m being serious here, the game has only been out for a couple months. The Meta won’t stabilize in that time…especially if there are significant changes every week/month.

Looking at only GW2…look what happened with mesmers since launch. Early, there were 2 opinions: “Mesmers are a joke” and “Mesmers can be amazing, just only a few people play them well.” Then Greatsword and a handful of other skills got a couple smacks from the BUFF bat, the average effective ‘level’ of mesmers you saw in spvp jumped. More people picked them up, learned how to play them, posted on the forums….now your typical spvp game is 30-40% mesmer, 30-40% thief(same thing here), and a smattering of everyone else. Most of the mesmers weren’t even running greatsword builds outside of wvw.

Rangers could have been the same if they received bunched of big changes/buffs. Then, all we would have to look forward to is minor nerf after nerf.

I think what someone said earlier is right. They need to not worry so much about balance(buffs or nerfs) and just focus on BUGS and play ability for the next couple months. If dual daggers works for elementalists, then leave it be. Take that development time and put it into ranger signets, engineer turrets, necro minions, the dozens of traits and abilities that need help. If your player metrics show that less than 1% of rangers take Beastmaster’s Bond, use a white moa/rainbow jellyfish or use an offhand dagger…then that is where the dev time can be spent and hopefully not undone at a later date.

The goal should be to get players using all the skills in somewhat balanced amounts…not 90% of rangers using shortbows, cat pets, quickness, fire trap, and entanglement.

Nero.8623:

It should read like this:

5,754steal 2,826cloak-dagger DISTORTION

You are exactly correct. If your running from A to B, at full health, sword/focus/blink/decoy(as is typical traveling for us), and important things are off cooldown… then this is how you should train yourself to respond.

ManCaptain.3154

Lol at all the people who smartass about how the guy should react. You can’t react. You’re fighting a warrior, he gets you below 70%. Suddenly you’re downed and a thief appears next to you. That’s how it goes.

But this is how it goes most of the time. It’s a group pvp or WvW game, You arn’t dueling thieves…there isn’t even a duel function in the game.

More often then not, you will be fighting someone off a point or engaging in group fights. You will get hurt. Your abilities will go on cooldown. You will inexplicably drop from 50-70 health with no chance to react. You will get stomped from stealth and not even be able to create a clone because creating a downed clone requires a target(*and an invisible “hit” as of last patch).

There is a reason spvp is often 50% thieves. tpvp and wvw groups are shifting more in that direction with roamers as well. Thieves end fights. It’s often not because individually anyone was outplayed by the thief, its a simple byproduct of what they are designed to do.

(sure an argument could be made to bring your own thieves or devote your builds to countering them, but that’s a meta issue.)

Enjoyed, Thanks

Are you still running that same build?

As a Greatsword mesmer, you are one of the few play styles that can get away with playing a glass canon spec with the berserker’s (or explorer’s) gear sets.

As for builds, the only ways we really produce damage is with phantasm or shatter. Phantasms offer very high DPS that can be dispelled(and takes 30’ish) seconds to really get going(typicall for dungeon farming). Shatter offer bursts of damage that can happen about every 10 seconds(more typical of WvW or some DE’s). Either playstyle can work well and there are a number of ways to build both of them in this thread.

xLiveLucidx.5071:

Longbow – Auto attack too slow, Barrage doesn’t put out enough damage
Greatsword – Damage reduced, skill 4 could be better
Shortbow – GREAT BEFORE PATCH….now…useless

Please either fix what you did to the shortbow in the Oct. 7 patch or take away the position constraints on stacking bleeds.

Barrage damage is fine. Its a burst…not a consistent stream of crossfire. Adapt the the range restrictions of the longbow and you’ll see it perform better.

Great sword damage is nerfed from it’s early beta weekend kingdom of ownage, but it still has a place and can perform well if you build for it. A large part of the problem here is, when you build for it to get really good damage, you end up with about the survivability of a signets warrior only without hundred blades or spin to win to help you escape. This can be covered somewhat if you pair it with our own signets build, but it has it’s limitations (I leveled and pvp’d this way all the way to 80/20).

Axe is a mess of “OK and could be better”. All in my opinion of course.

That all said, I agree that the LB-1 is slow/low dps outside of the miracle max range crit that pierces 5 people. It crits nice…but even low level wvw elementalists will live through it more often then not(quickened barrage is a very different story). I also agree, GS-4 is very lack luster. I understand it’s there for utility…but the best I’ve managed with it is a lucky thief punt away from the catapult. I would like to see it reworked into a more blade-deflection(shield-block) like ability that last 3-5 seconds while deflecting attacks(reflects projectiles traited maybe?) and then does the kick punt every time on the second push. I believe engineers already have this, but in AoE.

Heh, wishful thinking…

<level 80 ranger and 35 ranger alt who hated being pidginholed into “crossfire to win”

I don’t understand how people can feel like short bow attack rate is/was legit or a good thing we had going for us in terms of developer attention. It was head and shoulders, then standing on top of your pet, above every other weapon we have available in terms of auto attack damage. The DPS of the auto attack with the bleed was above full skill compliments of pretty much every other weapon in every situation.

From a simple metrics standpoint, it had to have shown a significantly disproportionate amount of DPS/killing blows/combo field charges and everything else that is applicable.

Am I going to be set back for a while because of the change? probably. Am I glad that I’ll be able to use different weapon load-outs without feeling like I’ve lost too much or holding back my group? Definitely.

Also, quickness works fantastically with rapidfire to a very similar burst effect. If you can’t get kills with that, you need to adjust your stats.

Let me preface by saying that i don’t have all that extensive experience with playing thieves.

I believe, with the current build, Mesmers will get more DPS in an “Ideal” situation.
3 phantasms such as iZerkers or iWarlocks + the greatsword/staff attacks put out a whole lot of hurt from “safety”. Even more DPS if you use the MH sword to supplement your phantasms while putting you at melee risk. (RiP 3 Warden dps/reflection godmode )

The downside to this…your phantasms will get popped quite a bit(some fights more then others). When your phantasms go down, your dps stops. Although, when your phantasms get hit, that’s usually one less hit that your dungeon party isn’t dodging or getting downed from.

Thieves, as I’ve played with them, have been opting for the pistols or shortbow for combo fielding from safety as well. I’ve never played it in a dungeon, but sword/dagger thieves I’ve seen use allot of stealth and evasion to stay alive.

Human tend to be more barbie attractive and norn tends to look more athletic and tall in game play. (assuming we are talking female…since male norn are a for more significant choice then looking better in armor)

The armor set allot of people like is the gladiator set, and humans show off a little bit of hips, while the norn show off the abs a little more. Go to the heart of the mists and check it out with preview

Humans have more useful racial skills that you might use. Lots of people are fond of the Dogs ultimate while solo.

AnAltruisticEgoist.5476:

I’m going to ignore the point you are trying to make until you stop using fallacious hyperbole as a rhetorical device.

Ignoring the other guy’s point…always the best way to hold a discussion. Although, I know you read the earlier post, saying I’m not going to acknowledge an argument is a sure fire way to prove that you are just trolling and not really interested in getting things that our class needs. Even if the argument is written in a style that you don’t like. (Not at all fallacious, BTW. Google the definition, then reread what you “didn’t” read the first time.)

The obvious TLDR version of my earlier post:

1. Classes in this game can’t be balanced for 1v1 or we loose the uniqueness that our class provides.

2. Performing well in 1v1 against 7 of the 8 other classes does not lead to the logical conclusion that the 8th class is overpowered or that changes should be made to any of the classes.

3. There are for more things to consider in mmo class balance than 1v1 performance between specific match-ups.

4. If Necro’s want changes, we need to show them roles where we are deficient…parts of the game design we are excluded from for a verifiable reason.

To give example considerations; Are we never used/useful for dungeons? Do we not have utility/playability in WvW? Are we never chosen/useful in tPvP? Is the role of condition removal not necessary?

1v1 dueling against mesmers, while a fairly common happening in spvp or pug tpvp(for those who go rambo), is hardly in the game design. Even then, in my experience even in spvp, true 1v1’s are very rare. There are always other factors (other players, bundles, sharks, boons). There is also the whole trait and stat build variety to consider. Maybe your build/style just didn’t work against his build/style while another build/style would have.

When I lose, this is what I consider:
I lost against the Mesmer who is Phantasm/Condition damage built. Am I the best build I need to be to fight him? Should I change my build to fight Mesmers with Phantasm/Condition builds so that I have the advantage? If i change my build, what do I lose? Would I rather beat mesmers more frequently in 1v1 at the cost of what i lost from my old build?

It’s staggering that many forum goers and trolls don’t consider this and insist that the other guy’s class is OP as a whole.

I usually roll with some form of group in PvP. After the first BWE, I realized that solo pvp is a doomed venture in this game. You are at a higher risk of not getting a fair fight due to one reason or another and will only ever get the same reward. Risk/Reward is not really there for solo. Therefore, I’ve rarely build with the concept of fighting 1v1’s…but I certainly know that my build would be different if it was. And, that build would be even more different if i were to specialize in dueling mesmers…just as their build would be different if they were to specialize in dueling Necro’s.

It’s a Meta Game. The Dev’s are waiting for this to stabilize, before they consider large changes like, for examples, giving necro’s a 50% damage increase while wielding an axe or decide that Mesmers can only have 1 phantasm at a time. I recall one of them coming to this very forum and saying something to that effect directly in response to necro changes.

Danicco.3568:

ens.9854:

Anybody mind summarizing? Is this effect entirely due to melee assist range variation?

Sure.

Play with Melee Assist off, ignore this thread.

Yup!

“All classes should have equal footing in a 1v1.”

Ok, equal footing in 1v1. Check.
Then, logically, Everyone must have equal footing in 5v5 as well, right?
As a result, Everyone must be equally disadvantaged in 1v2 and in no way stand a chance of winning.
19v20, must follow the same guidelines and the side with more people must win.
Balance is balance and fair is fair.
Guild Wars is then a game of logistics.
(que smart kitten response suggesting the more skilled player wins)

The same line of thought taken on a different path,
If the game is balanced around 1v1, 5v5, 8v8 and 20v20 then all abilities must be balanced against each other.
Rogues have heartseeker, therefore everyone needs an ability that performs the same as heartseeker (functionally and quantitatively).
Necromancers have DS, so every class must be given a mechanic that performs the same as DS…for balance sake.
…
All Classes must have the same Abilities, Stats, Gear and Appearance to ensure that there is balance and no one class is in any way disadvantaged against another class.

There are genres of game designed with this mindset…but they typically are not MMO.

The game is more enjoyable when it isn’t balanced around 1v1 and there is variety in the classes and their capabilities to some extent. This of course does lead to some classes with advantages or disadvantages against other classes in 1v1. But this isn’t 1v1 dueling game. Sure, 1v1 does happen. But pvp situations are never necessarily a 1v1 game. Someone can always come along for one side or the other.

What is most important is that ever class can have a role and be effective at it. If it turns out that a class doesn’t have that role or is just not capable of being effective at it(or a role that isn’t needed) then that is when sweeping adjustments and nerfbats are to be had.

This is where the concern with Necro’s and balance should be focused…not in “I lost against these mesmers this one time. I could tell they all sucked at their class and I am usually very good at beating people in 1v1. But Mesmers are the only class I regularly have trouble with, they are overpowered and must be nerfed.”

Nismoz.4836:

Results:
Human – Norn
…
931 – 1130
…
Human damage range: 973 – 1199
…
I am not sure why my data is different from BAMBOO’s data though. I don’t know why his average damage was in the range of 700-800 while mine was around 1000.

Just pointing out that the damage range for human is incorrectly listed by the data you supplied us. Its a minor error, but really backs up what i’m going to suggest.

If you spend all your time looking for a specific outcome, you are going to find find that outcome eventually and overlook or dismiss the evidence to the contrary. This happens in statistics all the time…just look at network news polls for an example. The fact that your data directly contradicts one of your points only leads me to this conclusion.

The reason your data differs from mine could be any number of reasons. I deliberately unset all of my traits, kept all character’ gear identical and only tested with the characters for my tests to eliminate some RNG. Also, I ensured that all of my tests had the same testing environment…such as no buffs, debuffs or other people attacking the golem while i was recording and ensured that I stood in the exact same position each trial. Your data indicates that one of more of these circumstances did not happen for you to reproduce my test accurately.

If you re-rolled and are happier for it, That’s good. It’s a game, and enjoyment is the reason we should do this. I personally based my race selection for professions on appearance and racial skills for funzies.

@ AlphaDuck – You are very correct, I did note in my earlier post that displayed damage and ‘combat log’ damage do not agree with each other.

As I said before, many of us could run these tests; but the end result is ultimately the same. Only internal tests where every variable can be controlled really matter. I’m confident in my tests that there was only a minimal difference in the results and nothing of statistical merit.

I find my greatsword can chain a single regular mob every 15 seconds with zero downtime, effectively zero risk and minimal effort once you get used to the play style. If you supplement this with a duelist, swordsman, warlock or warden on your weapon swap your kill time can lesson significantly; but, I find that this really only gives the illusion(heh) of going faster because your next pull/kill is effectively delayed 15 seconds until your next phantasm or shatter anyway.
Vets and Champions very regularly fall right into the same rotation with little effort. With single pulls, the only time you slow down is when you get adds.

In my experience the Melee sword kills can be faster due to the obvious dps advantage, but that this eats through my health quickly unless i’m built like a tank to a degree that my kill time goes down anyway. Some happy medium of stats or better gear and traits might allow better farming (particularly in lower zones where it seems to annihilate my stats and make it tougher then it was when i actually was level 20).

Danicco.3568:

Also, reading someone asking to test about randomness… that’s so random it’s not even funny.

“Because I’m sure that standing at 20y far, humans hit their targets 15% more frequent!”

Are you serious?

Heh, for the most part you are exactly right. Testing a random occurrence, such as number of hits for whirling wrath that fires in random directions, is going to give you random results. It’s very much like flipping a coin 10 times, expecting exactly 5 heads/tails and then calling the coin broken when it comes up tails 9 out of 10 times.

Probability happens.

What interested me in this topic is the that youtube video linked earlier with the bubbles. It appears legit, but really it needs to be tested in an internal sandbox where the golems and players can be replaced in identical locations and then compared. There is very little for players to test with that other then “ohh look, it appears that the big guy has a bigger bubble that may be functional or cosmetic since more things get knocked back further.” I assume people who play guardians understand the random functionality of the bubbles when standing in large wvw groups…They don’t knock 30 players away from keep doors.

So why do the tests? Cause Devs read the forums too. Sometimes when players assume that something is working as intended and dismiss it, then the Devs do too. My interest in this topic is that many abilities across all classes are PBAOE based and if the area effect relates to the size of your character then that either needs to be explained or addressed. An argument could be made that larger/smaller characters benefit from inherent advantages and disadvantages and this may be anet’s development standpoint(large vs small in Everquest for one example). It’s unlikely, but if it is the case then a bit of disclosure at character creation is warranted. Preferably before I invest significantly into another character

Anyway, Off Topic..sorta. More Test Data: Melee assist turned on and standing what I can approximate as directly in the face of the golem. While i’m including the Damage included, I mainly monitored and recorded the number of hits for each whirl from the combat log (damage from combat log DOES NOT match what you see in scrolling combat text, But that’s a whole new issue).

Asura – Human – Norn (Number of hits)
874(9) – 758(8) – 821(9)
894(9) – 895(9) – 787(8)
720(7) – 740(8) – 752(8)
783(8) – 779(8) – 741(7)
782(8) – 741(8) – 782(8)
783(8) – 736(8) – 747(8)
768(8) – 758(8) – 704(7)
758(8) – 775(8) – 715(7)
763(8) – 720(7) – 883(9)
742(8) – 731(8) – 828(9)
Total Hits:
81 – 80 – 80

And now, The Char-Files!
Small Char – Medium Char – Super Size Me Char
774(8) – 835(9) – 705(7)
731(7) – 765(8) – 736(8)
838(9) – 685(6) – 856(9)
695(6) – 752(8) – 715(7)
829(9) – 765(8) – 720(7)
768(8) – 850(9) – 773(8)
787(8) – 839(9) – 799(9)
700(7) – 851(9) – 861(9)
714(7) – 714(7) – 825(9)
809(9) – 731(8) – 768(8)
Total Hits:
78 – 81 – 81

While there are some small oddities such as the pair of 6 hit wraths I recorded for the char’s and one 10 hit crit for 2364 that I eliminated(9th entry on the norn btw) when someone else attacked the golem at the same time and it appeared to get double hit by my wrath; but, Overall it appears that results are following the statistical variance that you would expect. Small Char is a little low…but it is within probability.

Also, as a final and hopefully obvious conclusion from my tests is that You do more damage with whirling wrath while Melee assist is turned off. In gameplay, this will amount to a very real chance to do significantly more damage on a well placed wrath to a single player or dungeon npc.

Test subject and environment:
I ran a series of 10 whirling wraths on the Test Golem – Heavy in the heart of the mists with each of the three races in question; Norn, Human, and Asura.

Each character was created, run through its starting quest and then ported to heart of the mists. They all unlearned their traits, did not trade out armor or neck, bought an unsocketed greatsword and reported to the test golem. Melee assist was turned off and each character stood in the center of the test golem and pressed “3”.

Asura height and body types set to smallest.
Human height and body type set to middle “average”.
Norn height and body type set to largest.

Asura – Human – Norn
1206 – 1295 – 1025
1006 – 1158 – 1152
1015 – 1595 – 1042
1064 – 1025 – 1042
1080 – 1103 – 1047
1108 – 1037 – 1042
1059 – 1047 – 1086
1153 – 1130 – 1032
1108 – 1108 – 1003
1008 – 1099 – 1086

Averages:
1080.7 – 1159.7 – 1055.7

Test average: 1098.7

Indication:
In this test humans produced the highest outlying results and thus produced more damage. In a larger test the significance of these may be less pronounced. However, within the limitations of this very short survey, humans produced an average of 9.8% more whirling wrath damage.

My conclusion:
While my sample testing may indicate that humans are doing more damage, the survey pool in the test is too small to say that there is any statistical significance to indicate the obvious conclusion “Humans do more! Look at that 1595!!!L!O!L!”

A Bigger test may give the same indications, but that’s more time then I am willing to invest into a class I don’t play. I also ran asura to see if there was some kind of obvious scaled hitbox issue. If what the test indicates is true, I expect it is something human specific related due to the fact that norn and asura yielded very similar results.

Suggestions for those who want to replicate the test:
Run a bigger test with hundreds of entries.

For the OP:
You guys are in different gear. By your own statements you had 40% crit and he had 7%…what your post should be about is the different stat values for whirling wrath. For a made up example: if you hit for 150 every second and never crit then your dps is 150; however, if you hit for 100 every second and crit for 150% damage 50% of the time, your dps is only 125. Now I’m not suggesting that your friends stats are this different from yours, but you can better understand the value of crit chance. READ: If you hit like a kitten then you will also crit like a kitten.

Final conclusion: If we want to talk about racial imbalances, Lets talk about the norn starting quest. Took me three times as long as the other two races

Running Tests.
Be back in a bit.

I take them all the time in WvW. Banners are probably the best way to get a large group of people from A→B with swiftness when a new target has been called.

Although, I can see how this same behavior can grief the warrior and, presumably, his group. The elementalist conjured weapon solution would probably be best, summon one to your hands and one to target area. Then it doesn’t matter too much if someone ‘steals’ your banner for running purposes.