This is the rationale for the sword changes and the init and vigor changes :
Problem) some players complain that the thief DPS is too high
Analysis) lower thief weap dmg and/or util dmg will cause players to quit
Solution) make thief less survivable and when the player base self-adjusts to
make higher survivable builds, the players will reduce their own DPS
(thief traits are structured to have survival OR high dmg – not both.)
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
I deleted mine.
Wow, that’s a bit drastic, dontchathink?
The thief makes a great mule class. My thief stores all of my acct bound
items and boosts. Freed up many slots from my bank.
Besides, in 3 more years when they adjust the thief, you will need to
level one again.
Some players swear the thief is in a good spot. We know who they are-
they will troll this thread soon.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
I have a cheap (aka cheese) solution :
make ranger pets a DOT that runs near the target and jumps around.
It would only do dmg while the ranger is within a certain range of the pet.
That or add more dmg to all ranger weaps and remove damage from pets.
The pets still run around but dmg only comes from weapons.
OP ?
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
Don’t REM that thief. It has at least 3 special uses now :
1) an excellent mule. Park those mats and acct.-bound gear with style.
2) a great craft bot. Running Arah P4 on your guardian with friends and
someone needs more Bowls of Lemongrass Poultry Soup? Log that thief in LA
and mail them.
3) Lion’s Arch Troll. Never troll on your main.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
This is how to use pet’s F2 :
Jungle Stalker and Red Moa set passive (for the buffs only.)
Only use pets to fight in Queensdale.
In 2018, when the devs figure how to fix pets, they will shine in Cursed Shore.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
Devs need able workers for balance issues.
3 attacks from Thief (Steal + Cloak and Dagger + Backstab) do -20k HP damage! If Haste on, you are dead faster than 0.5 second. With venoms, you can not react. Steal is insta, and can be landed with range 900 or 1500.
If you have tanky class (+tougness), Thief need to do just 4th attack = Hearthseek. No matter if you are Mesmer, Warrior or anything else. Skilled Thief took you down in less than 1 second! And it is almost unblockable! …
Wow ! OP’s QQ still relevant?
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
One warrior kills leet player in 5 sec: no big deal. Next round.
Two rangers with longbows kill a noob in 10 sec: OMG ! Nerf longbow ! Too strong !
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
Mesmers are currently the better thieves. :/
They are indeed fun.
I have one of every class. Only playing mesmer entertains me as much as thief.
If thief Sword/Pistol goes into the WC …
mesmer Sword/Pistol – Scepter/Focus.
Vigor. Stealth. Mobility.
It’s the Mac vs. PC. Which is which?
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
Last refuge killed me last night..
Standing in my shadow refuge completely visible because last refuge decided to kick in during a fight and then i cancelled it with my next hit.
Such a frustrating skill. Wish they’d change it to having 2 seconds of evade at 25 percent health instead.
So, a thief trait/skill/weap did everything but play that certain 1987 Rick Astley song.
ANET’s POV : one thief died so that many warriors could live. Or mesmers. Or guardians, Or …
I feel your pain, phaeris. I leveled and geared my thief while waiting for THEM
to fix my ranger’s traits and skills. In that time, thief got dunked in weak sauce.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
This is my thief. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My thief is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
I will not roll a warrior or guardian. I will use my thief as a dedicated crafter.
All dailies will be mine.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
You laid it all out, Aladdin.
And you are correct on all points.
The dev team … I’m not sure what facts and figures they use
to arrive at their conclusions.
“One day they’ll have secrets … one day they’ll have dreams.” ~ Dr. Alfred Lanning
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
A few days ago, I removed any weaps and traits that are set to be
“balanced.” A few hours ago, I double checked my traits and can
guarantee that I won’t be dancing to their fife.
Players gravitate to certain builds on certain classes when everything else sucks.
ANET, in their wisdom, breaks the things that work to stop popular usage.
Then everyone will find something else that doesn’t suck AS BAD.
Then those builds get nerfed …
there are still great builds. need to learn them.
Learn to read. I did “learn a build.”
sheesh, the Sanduskel strikes …
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
A few days ago, I removed any weaps and traits that are set to be
“balanced.” A few hours ago, I double checked my traits and can
guarantee that I won’t be dancing to their fife.
Players gravitate to certain builds on certain classes when everything else sucks.
ANET, in their wisdom, breaks the things that work to stop popular usage.
Then everyone will find something else that doesn’t suck AS BAD.
Then those builds get nerfed …
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
Just leave, you know nothing of the legendary bunny thumpers!!
For anyone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about:
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bunny_thumper
To put it in GW2 terms, GW1 rangers had a trait line which essentially decreased the cooldown on skills. That let the ranger use the hammer’s knockdown skill more frequently than other classes could. Combine it with an attack speedup skill, and a few other skills which increased damage/daze when you/your pet attacked a knocked down target. You could dish out a pretty devastating amount of damage while your opponent was prone on his/her rump.
That… sounds pretty freakin’ awesome.
Oh, it was gloriously funny watching the build do its thing.
Ranger+hammer=fear.
Now imagine that a warrior got all hammer attacks with a 60% CD reduction
THEN got more skills to do damage to knocked down foes on a CD reduction
THEN had a pet to do more damage to knocked down foes …
Expertise reduced the energy cost of attacks, not their cooldown. Rangers could spam hammer bash more than a warrior because the bunny thumper had perma IAS for most of the entire match and burning all your adrenaline means nothing when you only have one skill that uses any of it.
I mentioned what I did because GW2 lacks the mechanics of the previous game to
even come close to duplicating the ranger’s fun with the hammer.
I doubt that the planets will ever align again (from a player’s POV) to ever
give us such awesomeness.
As you know, GW2 skills do not use the “energy” mechanics. Energy was just a way
to limit skill spamming in the previous game. The closest thing to do that now are
CD’s and Initiative (on thief.)
Adrenaline in this game fuels a warrior’s burst skills.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
I think it looks cool for a necro.
The included vid link lets one appreciate it better. (green tail effect)
Now I can dream of using 2 with Executioner’s Outfit
(only town clothes-not armor skin.)
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
Just leave, you know nothing of the legendary bunny thumpers!!
For anyone who doesn’t know what he’s talking about:
http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bunny_thumper
To put it in GW2 terms, GW1 rangers had a trait line which essentially decreased the cooldown on skills. That let the ranger use the hammer’s knockdown skill more frequently than other classes could. Combine it with an attack speedup skill, and a few other skills which increased damage/daze when you/your pet attacked a knocked down target. You could dish out a pretty devastating amount of damage while your opponent was prone on his/her rump.
That… sounds pretty freakin’ awesome.
Oh, it was gloriously funny watching the build do its thing.
Ranger+hammer=fear.
Now imagine that a warrior got all hammer attacks with a 60% CD reduction
THEN got more skills to do damage to knocked down foes on a CD reduction
THEN had a pet to do more damage to knocked down foes …
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
The “ostriches” (players that are content with playing a class with a broken
gimmick) are quick to offer others a workaround.
A workaround implies that something is not working as intended.
Sooooo, just admit something is actually causing people a bit of frustration.
Some players actually “get it.”
Others – the ostriches – say, “Roll a different class.”
It’s nothing wrong with wanting things to function properly.
I would welcome Preparations on the F keys.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
I just wish that ANY of the critters I already have attacked their target like a
DOT to justify a portion of my DPS going to them.
But, If I had to dream …
a croc or a gryphon.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
I’m with you, Durzlla.
Good times are just around the corner.
And thanks to you and Ryoki for mentioning Nente.
When I smash something, I want to play George Thorogood – “Who Do You Love”
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
My Norn ranger would run around with the Courage focus if I could listen to
George Thorogood songs in the background.
Must make a new GW2 playlist. Fun to be had…
I still want to smack ppl on the head with a hammer and feed them to my wolf.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
Yup, with no Expertise attribute, ranger’s can’t “exploit” the
usage costs of the hammer skills like Bunny Thumpers could.
It seems that Initiative would be better suited to pull off the venerable
build of old. It was fun to play and fun to watch.
I think that we will get a hammer. I can’t guess how it would be…
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
If/when the ranger class gets hammers, can the GW1 “bunny thumper”
build make a comeback in GW2?
As dungeon mob control?
Or will our traits needed make the build unreasonable?
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
It SEEMS as if the Dec 10th longbow buff will equalize the
damage output at all ranges. IT SEEMS.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
Pets hit more often when their target is stationary-
which does NOT happen too often (if the ranger melees a mob,
the pet’s target is likely stationary.)
So, ANET doesn’t want rangers with ranged weaps-you must melee
for your pet to work. If not, that bit of your DPS factored into pets becomes useless.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
The thief class is being “de-vigored” also.
A nerf in a game is not a big deal.
The rationale by the devs for a nerf-when it makes no sense-
is a big deal.
The game designers make the NPCs smarter and hit harder while
taking away the tools that players use to survive.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
Good info from the players above.
I would add:
A mace/shield – sword/focus guardian is what I leveled with my
x/x – longbow warrior friend.
Pull with the long bow. Good blocks, heals, reflects, regen from guardian.
Might stacks and raw damage from the warrior.
You keep each other alive and melt foes quickly.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
Death 5 – Reanimator. Decreased cooldown from 30s to 15s
Because you couldn’t have your risen rat fast enough.
I wouldn’t miss it.
Would anybody miss it?
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
It seems that many players really hate Dhuumfire.
I hear that it was nerfed from how it was initially introduced.
Can someone please explain it’s original state? Just curious.
I can’t find the answer, only how it is now.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
Short answer : No.
Long answer : No. You are squishy and melt to conditions.
You must team with a guardian.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
TL;DR The problem is not initiative regen, its everything else. If you really want to open up builds for the thief you should look at why we aren’t going with anything else rather than focusing on what we do use.
I hope that the developers read this and actually understand this.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
Same could be said to you and PvP, sir. PvE is a big part of this game, and many players like more than one aspect of what the game has to offer.
That is true. However, PvE is scripted and 9 out of 10 times it comes down to learning the encounter and knowing when to use your cool downs or dodge. More often than not you can run full DPS stat oriented gear and live.
This is not the case with either form of PvP in the game which are two of the other triads of play this game offers. Furthermore, PvE drives more trait and skill balance because they can become too over powered or lopsided in the other two formats of play.
I don’t think either side should dictate nor do I know what the population numbers reflect. Just be aware, which I’m sure you are, there are 3 types of game play of which 2 relate to PvP.
Indeed.
I have wondered, many times, why the devs don’t just split the skills by modes.
Like in GW1.
Would make balancing much easier.
(I have 1 of each profession-shelving my thief if the changes go through.)
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
IS/SR needed a nerf, it acted as a stun break and a condition cleanse with no cooldown and 1200 range.
Warrior is my second main but he doesn’t even have a third of the play time I have on my Thief because they’re so easy to play. Which makes it really boring imo.
Stun removal has been removed from this ability for a very long time, where have you been? It only removes ONE condition.
Keep complaining though, it’ll be completely removed from the game before January.
This was funny.
I was saying to a friend : By next year, when you press the sword #2
the sword transforms into a dead fish to slap your foe -
like a Monty Python skit.
Actually, the next patch reminds me of the “Spanish Inquisition.”
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
Sigh… so I guess no matter what we say can make them change their minds about Shadow Return – the skill that was making sword like 3 times more fun to play (at least to me and I have never used SR stomps). Everyone playing sword mainhand knows we have to go (almost)full glass to be able to put pressure with our damage and that’s why… ah forget it, why am I even trying, back to leveling my new project. Rifle/longbow full troll roaming warrior might be fun.
I can feel your pain.
As someone in another post stated:
the remedy to the thief sword “balance” is to ROLL A WARRIOR.
or something like that.
What the game designers don’t understand: Some people NEVER WvW;
just PvE and dungeons. They balance for WvW and make a build or even
a profession sub-par in PvE.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
They nerfed stealth. I went to a shadow step/crit/dodge build : S/P – sb ; no stealth.
Now they are proposing to hamper crit builds AND nerfing sword
AND hampering dodging.
I’m going D/P – sb.
These changes affect the viability of the profession in PVE although the problems
precipitating the changes occured in WvW, sPvP, etc.
They should just balance the skills around each mode of play.
Their approach to “balance” : X class is too OP in WvW
solution: let’s kitten the skills in WvW
result: balanced in WvW – useless in PvE.
Six months later: Players adapted to the changes we made; they are killing
monsters and surviving events. More balancing !
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
I’m having the same latency probs – skills taking 10 secs to 1 min to activate.
Also the disconnects after 10 min and 5 min to port into towns.
This only started within the last 4 days.
It’s not Windows Firewall.
It’s not my wireless adapter settings.
And it’s not Jack the Ripper.
Someone has to have a solution. I suspect it’s something to do with
the server dropping packets from the client.
Oh, the red button there kid, don’t ever, ever touch the red button.
