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Players who hate vertical progression are just those players in the wrong group. They are players who favor action-games than rpgs during their console-gaming phases in life.
There are reasons why RPG-fans like me hate games like Tomb Raider, Ninja Gaiden and other action-games. If people realised, Tomb Raider isn’t a RPG-genred even when you role-played as Lara Croft. RPGs isn’t just about “role-playing a character” but the progressive nature that develop the characters. RPG = Dedication > Player skills.
I like to progress the character like in storybooks than having a non-progressive character that makes stages harder through progression. At the same time, I want realism of the world. The “best items” have real rewarding functions. The “philosopher stone” in Harry Potter and “ring” in Lord of The Rings novels are not just aesthetics.
So who made you the authority on what a RPG has to be? How is your “realism” any more real than +1 gear that doesn’t exist in the real world?
Stop spewing nonsense.
All these complaints about vertical progression. I understand you guys don’t like it, but what seriously puzzles me is what did you expect to find on MMO game? MMO is a genre that is made to replace your life. There are different different professions, different crafts, two genders like in real life. Everything happens real time and your job is that of a monster slayer. Everything is made in “realistic” style. As politicians in real world strive for endlessly higher standard of living and better economy, so do the developers of MMO games strive to introduce new items to go after.
I thought everybody understood what MMO is about. This isn’t a Mario platformer. This isn’t a tactical combat simulator. This is MMO and MMO = work, grind, day-to-day events.
No. MMO = massive multiplayer online. That’s it all it needs to be. How you see MMOs is only a product of your egocentricity imposed on your experiences.
Won’t recommend. The game has become WoW lite and people will be better off playing WoW.
Will lurk around to see what happens, but a second chance is unlikely.
I get the feeling that Ascended will work a lot like Epics in WoW.
Gonna try Planetside 2 and play more console games.
I certainly would never suggest Apple abandon their business model, alienate their customers who DO like it, and try to woo me to their side by providing a product that’s functionally identical to one I already own and enjoy. Aside from it just not working like that, I’d feel bad for the people who do like their products, who got tossed out in the cold because hey, they’re already customers who cares, let’s try and change everything they like so maybe someone else will like us too.
This is so spot on when you think about the people that come in here and demand that GW2 become more like other games. It’s pretty insulting to the already existing customers.
it is like life. you work more, you get more. it isn’t entitled. it is earned.
By this logic a mentally disabled individual should eventually become president if they just work long enough weeks at Goodwill. Sorry, that’s not how life works. In life you get ahead by being smarter and more innovative than others, not by mindlessly devoting your time to monotonous tasks.
^True. It’s like saying….. ‘since I’ve been here the longest, I deserve the promotion’.
Quoted for so much truth. I don’t get how it’s possible that people still think life works like that.
Like other posters have stated, MMORPG is just an acronym. Its only real requirement is to have a persistent world (massive multiplayer) and RPG elements.
People expect gear treadmill because that’s how they are conditioned based on past experiences. This is like a child refusing to recognize a house without stairs as a house, because all the other houses he’d been to had stairs. This form of egocentrism should have been grown out of at a young age, yet we see it here.
Speaking for myself, it would. If I was able to complete a dungeon, I want it to be because of my skill as a player, not because I have better gear. If I was to come back from a six month break, I want to be able to do any PvE content without having to gear up again.
You can predict election results with a sample size of a thousand.
So just what /will/ you do if this really is the end of it? No, I’m not looking for “Oh well that’s never gonna happen this is a guaranteed 101% trend now no turning back blahblahblah” I’m honestly just curious- what will you do if this is a legitimately one-time-only tier upgrade and everything was just more content instead of tiers and they just want to add something new to the game?
I really hoped it is an one time only thing too. But if it is, why doesn’t somebody at ArenaNet come out and say that? All they have to do is say “this is only an one time thing.”
Now that the treadmill locusts got what they asked for, people are moving on to demand the holy trinity.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Against-De-promoting-Holy-Trinity
Look, I also am not super excited about gear and stats improvement either… But I try to see the positive aspects of it!
1- No one is really certain how this “increase” is going to give a competitive advantage.
2- Including “infusions” or more upgrades for gears is great! Hell, when GW1 started we couldn’t add inscriptions to gear! Did the game change that much to break it when they introduced these? It did change… It made it better and more tactical and interesting
3- On the infusion and other upgrade business, this can also be seen as increasing diversity of content! Dealing with certain content will require you use different strategies! Similar to the Mursaat. No one really knows the plans of Anet on this! I am confident that they have realized by now that people don’t want gear progression.Finally, if someone says “I want it to fail in the most spectacular way”, what can I say? I am sure that every argument we trade is going to be met with the irrational resolve of a fundamentalist!
What if I were to say I want this game to succeed in the most spectacular way, as long as there is no gear treadmill? That’s what a lot of us came to GW2 for, and what a lot of see as the first step on the said treadmill.
I’m not sure you understand what a “treadmill” is.
Having a sense of character progression, and NEEDING to get a new tier of gear every 3 months are completely different things.
I’m not sure why so many people don’t understand that.
Vertical progression IS gear treadmill.
Not necessarily.
DAoC had vertical progression in the form of realm ranks for example.
It is heavily associated with gear treadmill however and may as well be synonymous because of all these greedy incompetent developers trying to get a piece of WoW’s consumer base.
Good point.
What will kill GW2 is, most likely, a negative, deconstructive, irrational, petty and tiring outcry of so many people!
Do you really want GW2 to succeed and do well, or you would love to see it fail? Very often I think most of the people posting in these threads belong to the second group of people!
If you want it to do well, be positive and constructive! That is the ONLY way to make things go further and develop. Try to be mature, try to give a meaningful contribution and try to enjoy! Don’t just try with all your guts to hate everything and then something more!
I LOVE this game. I don’t like everything about it, but I don’t like everything about most of everything in life! What do I do? I can choose to destroy, to corrupt, to undermine and implode… or I can do what I would think a decent human being would do… Try to contribute, look at things positively and make CONSTRUCTIVE comments!
Your comments are creating a catastrophic vision/reality of a game that is not perfect, but its really good and has enormous potential! GW2 could be much more, no doubt… But no one wants to give it time! Everyone starts running around shouting, like a crazy chicken… Most of the times, not really knowing why they shout! But if everyone around shouts… Why shouldn’t they?
So that’s it… What will kill my loved GW2 is most of you and your comments! And that is just sad…
ps: and all this hate, dark hanger, destructive rage for what? For a bloody computer game? Oh well…
I would still be very forgiving of the game’s shortcomings if ArenaNet hadn’t introduced the gear treadmill. And as long as gear treadmill remains, I will only want this game to fail in the most spectacular way.
I’m not sure you understand what a “treadmill” is.
Having a sense of character progression, and NEEDING to get a new tier of gear every 3 months are completely different things.
I’m not sure why so many people don’t understand that.
Vertical progression IS gear treadmill.
A lot of people are bringing up the argument because there is a slight increase in stats it doesn’t count as a treadmill, I guess these people have never witnessed an avalanche.
It’s like if you were being mugged and they would slice you with a knife, sure you could laugh it off, say it’s nothing but a scratch, just don’t be surprised if they stab you in the gut on the following jab.
It’s extra funny because if they actually would have played WoW then they would know that there is only a 10% difference in starts between two tiers there.
Quoted for truth.
As somebody that’s played WoW up until end of Cataclysm, that 10% adds up. After a several month hiatus you are looking at 30% or 40% difference in gear stats.
They put further stats on the Infusions themselves. This is a clear permanent shift in how their view their game, sadly.
The only bad thing about not having a subscription is that I can’t click the unsubscribe button right now to show my disgust for the direction theyre taking this game.
Just don’t log in again. If you’ve been logging in regularly, and buying from the gem store, that’ll be just as clear a message.
Some advocate logging and doing nothing to take up bandwidth, which will cost ArenaNet for upkeep.
Either way, you can choose to voice your disdain however you see fit.
Now that it’s official, we need to respond with haste. Quitting is not enough. ArenaNet and those that advocated for treadmill gameplay need to pay a price for this bullkitten.
Throwing all those threads in the pile destroyed any individual threads of discussion they may have had and turned it all into a broken mash of people raging mixed in with coherent posts nobody is ever going to see. Let them come out and talk once they’ve calmed down.
Whether intentional or not, the merged thread is nothing more than a place for good posts to rot.
Completely agree with the OP. Another BS reason that people give about progression is that because it’s how RPGs have always been.
Even on real treadmills (the kind in gyms) there is a first step. This has nothing to do with slippery slope, this is the first step.
Calling it “progression” doesn’t make it any less a treadmill.
I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.
No one is against new content. We are against changes that completely fly in the face of multiple claims made by your team during the development of the game, including your own company president.
Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.
You say you are not adding a gear treadmill then go on to talk about how you are adding said tier of gear that is better then anything else out there. Umm…Yeah.
Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
If you care so much about our support, why are you going ahead with a plan that goes against your very own design manifesto? I and many others bought this game because we could pick it up at any time and experience any content available to my level. I don’t care how much time you give us to get this new Ascended nonsense. The fact of the matter is you and the other developers have completely back flipped on one of the very core tenants you had but a few months ago. You are putting gear treadmills and content gating via resistance checks (a failed experiment in many other MMOs, I might add) in the very same patch and wonder why players are upset?
I don’t mind saying I feel pretty kitten foolish putting stock in all the claims this game would be different to other MMOs. I encouraged many of my friends to try and now you are trying to ram-rod in the very elements we were trying to escape.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores.
Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director
There are plenty of “thoughts” about it right now. Just look about the forums.
Quoted for truth.
It doesn’t matter how much time people have to collect the new ascended items, it’s still vertical progression. The currently slight gap will only widen as more contents are released, and a few years later, we have will just be another treadmill.
No, I hate the new ascended items.
Even if the gear is only limited to PvE, people will still end up locked out of new dungeons because their gear couldn’t keep up.
Will quit if the game gets a gear treadmill.
Thanks guys.
Currently I have 10 points in marksmanship with steady focus. I have another 10 in beast mastery with speed training.
Just switched from long bow to short bow. Typically I use whatever bow I find with the better stats. My secondary weapon is a 2h sword, though I rarely switch weapons.
For skills I have troll ungent, lightning reflex, quickening zephyr, signet of the hunt, and rampage as one.
^ i’d love you to show me a case in actual history of someone which used a shield as a weapon of choice. dual shields, even better.
Spartans.
Been looking around on the internet and there doesn’t seem to be a consensus like the warrior signet build.
Does anybody know a good ranger build for leveling?
Anybody got any ideas?
They could always implement specific zones for world PvP that’s not WvW.
First of all, do not mix single-player RPG together with multi-player RPG.
Single-player RPG only consist of you roleplaying and the story.
Multi-player RPG consist of you roleplaying, the story, a moving world and massive people.Players who play single-player RPG switch games after they finished the story.
Players who play multi-player RPG are dedicated to one mmo for years even after completing the story.A multi-player RPG that has no individual progression shouldn’t call themselves a mmorpg. Sure, in single-player RPG there’s no progression because the game has ended. Yes, ended. It means “It’s time to switch to another game for my ps3”. That shouldn’t happen to a mmorpg. It’s because mmorpg is a constant world, not a frozen single-player ps3 rpg. Characters should be allowed to grow. Mmorpg is like breeding a character you role-play. Your character “age” (illiterally) the more time and efforts you put into it.
If the game is all about the player and not the avatar, it should be a mmo “player game” and not mmo “role-playing game”.
What makes people like to play mmorpg more than single-player rpg is because your character grows among with other player’s characters. If you play mmorpg with the mentality of how you play a single-player rpg, you wouldn’t know. I can see you playing it that way after you relate mmorpg and single-player rpg together.
I did not confuse single player and multiplayer RPGs. What I said was a direct response to your definition of RPG. I brought up single player RPGs, and two other MMORPGs, which you conveniently ignored, to illustrate how your definition does not speak for all RPGs. So again, your definition of what a MMORPG is only consists of your expectations. You have not authority to tell anyone what a MMORPG should be. Don’t start pointing fingers, I don’t presume that I have the authority to tell anyone what an RPG should be.
Towards your other quote, you’re mixing “communism” and “democracy” together.
You missed the entire point.
In democratic society, at least people are rewarded with efforts.
Making effort for graduation certificate can give you a job. It’s not just cosmetic.
Making effort for promotion can give better pay and rewards. It’s not just cosmetic.
Making effort to get richer, you get richer. It’s not just cosmetic.
There’s progression and rewards for every effort you did.
The -efforts for reward- to get a job, promotions, get richer are what made it fun.
If everything is spoonfed, we can see examples from silver-spoon children who can’t satisfy themselves with anything when they have everything without efforts. That’s why in reality, silver-spoon children can never have fun in life because they have no solid goals.
Other posters have already pointed out your use of the term democracy, so I won’t harp on the issue.
However, you completely disregarded what I have said. Do you not see the leap of logic that was made to equate equality to equal wealth distribution? Do you? If you are to post a reply, please answer this question. This is the fulcrum of the issue, no amount of telling me how other economic system works actually addresses the issue.
Capitalism isn’t about effort and reward, it’s about free market. Even if capitalism is about effort and reward, that doesn’t automatically make anything that’s not like it communist?
Furthermore,
My perception?
You get a graduation certificate for being HARDWORKING and dedicated.
You get a promotion for being HARDWORKING and dedicated.
You get rich if you are HARDWORKING and dedicated.
You triumph more easily in mmorpg if you are HARDWORKING and dedicated.How to be good? Be hardworking and dedicated.
You can’t be good without making efforts.
Before labelling others as “moronic”, tell yourself how shallow you are.Oh wait, you can’t triump more easily in GW2 if you’re hardworking and dedicated.
So it’s not a mmorpg. GW2 should have it’s genre labelled as mmopvp or fps.
This is just so wrong. The only truth here is you can’t be good without effort and dedication. That is very different from effort and dedication equating to being good.
Ask anybody in a medical program about their class. You’d be surprised by how many hardworking and dedicated people still fail, or nearly fail. Hell, there are only 37 people left in my class of 55.
The people that cuts the grass around my neighborhood are hardworking too. And if you want to count physical labor, they work harder than me. I can tell you that they will never become rich by cutting grass all day.
Your perception is warped. Hard work is an illusion.
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So, why doesn’t AN/NC just take out the leveling system then? What is really gained from a level?
Quoting myself, since, I’ve been totally ignored.
Nothing really.
One of the feedback from GW1 was players wanted more levels, so that’s what we got.
If I had my way, there wouldn’t be any levels.
It’s not an assumption nor having authority over the definition. Only the self-delusioned ones really feel that they are playing a real mmorpg. RPG is in fact a "role-playing*" game. If not, then what is it? Like the name itself, you role-play someone who’s not you.* You breed and grow someone who is not you. FPS and mmopvp are of the same genre with 2 different expressions. In my country, we call those online multi player games that only emphasize on skills as mmopvp or mmopg. It’s not a “Roleplay” game but “Player” game.
I will agree with the bolded part. What comes latter, the character progression, is an expectation that grew from years of treadmill MMOs. Traditional single player RPGs for example, have no progression past a certain point. Are you going to tell me games like The Witcher is not a RPG? What about games like Eve Online, or the upcoming World of Darkness MMO, where gear treadmill doesn’t exist?
I am not familiar with where you are from, so I will drop the argument on whether or not MMOPvP is a thing. I still stand by the truth that gear treadmill or progression doesn’t make a game RPG.
I don’t think there’s any wrong with Pilisilm’s communist analogy. If you insist that GW2 is a mmorpg, then it’s true that GW2 is like a communist country in the planet of mmorpgs. The reason why GW2 gain alot of attention was because “equality” sure sounds like utopia/heaven. If you noticed the among players they attracted are groups of players who always ended up in the short end of the stick in other mmorpgs. It’s a reflection of reality. Many real life people have the first impression that communist country is always better because there’re no classes and everyone is equal. They dislike the idea of someone higher than them and some who earns more than them. (Especially the group of people who doesn’t make an effort for themselves and want to be equal as those hardworking ones.) “Everyone is equal” sure sounds like utopia land. After people stay in communist world for sometimes, they begun to realise that it rewards the lazy ones but punishes the ones who make efforts. The ones who make effort have no further growth than another one who’s lazing around. Through time, no one grow motivation to make effort. In the end, look at North Korea.
I will tell you what’s wrong with the communist analogy. First, communism is specifically the equal distribution of wealth. What Pilusilm did was take the equal out of context and then making a leap of logic. That’s why competitive sports kept being brought up, not because we are focused on PvP and disregard PvE, but because it’s a perfect example of “equal” not being communist.
There are other examples too, equal, opportunities, equal rights, etc. There are lots of “equal” in societies that aren’t communist and various aspects of life. Are you going to tell me the many ideas of equality represent communism? The United States promote equality, that everyone is equal, does that mean the United States is communist? Do you not see the leap of logic?
What Pilusilm did was take the idea of “equal wealth distribution” and confusing it with equality. The leap of logic is so big that it’s effortless to spot.
GW2 attracts people, not because they suck in other games. GW2 attracts people because people that are skilled don’t have to put up with gear grind to participate in competition.
Edit: I want to emphasize that I do not dismiss PvE in favor of PvP. I just happen to believe that both styles of gameplay should rely on skill instead of gear. Adding gear progression will only diminish skill.
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It really looks like there are two camps: Those who do PvE and want real ways to progress their characters, and those who don’t care about PvE at all and just want to do PvP, bringing up “sports” as examples of how GW2 should be run. I think the second crowd is playing the wrong genre – This is an mmoRPG. What I think would be perfect for you, is the MOBA genre – League of Legends, DOTA, Heroes of Newerth. Go check them out.
The PvPers aren’t playing the wrong genre. It’s the genre that needs to be refreshed. GW2 offers that.
The #1 reason against progression I see posted on these forums is PvP balance. Your thoughts that the MMO genre needs to be “refreshed” by disregarding PvE and emphasizing PvP are selfish. I’m fine with keeping PvP and PvE separated. You got your sPvP where you get a level playing field and can use “skill” all you want. Don’t come into my PvE and tell me that things that don’t affect you are “unfair” and need to be removed. Again, if you want a game with a fantasy setting, very little PvE, with almost all emphasis on PvP and skill, MOBAs are that way —-——>
Contrary to what you may believe, I want everybody in PvE to be equal not because I don’t want it to affect PvP. I want everyone in PvE to be equal because I also believe only skill should matter in PvE.
It’s also funny what you should mention MOBA. In MOBA, you spend time leveling your characters through AI controled NPCs, just like in a MMO. You get items as you level, that gives you stat boosts, just like in gear driven MMOs.
What’s funnier is that you tell me to leave MMO for MOBA, when you could leave GW2 for WoW. So who’s selfish here? The person that wants all MMOs to be all gear progression to suit their preferences, or the person that wants one game to suit his preferences?
It really looks like there are two camps: Those who do PvE and want real ways to progress their characters, and those who don’t care about PvE at all and just want to do PvP, bringing up “sports” as examples of how GW2 should be run. I think the second crowd is playing the wrong genre – This is an mmoRPG. What I think would be perfect for you, is the MOBA genre – League of Legends, DOTA, Heroes of Newerth. Go check them out.
The PvPers aren’t playing the wrong genre. It’s the genre that needs to be refreshed. GW2 offers that.
Sleaze.3748You’re statement makes no sense and does not in any way debate that someones build doesn’t outweight a players skill… please approach me with a valid arguement time…
Also since everyone in this forum seems to love analogies and you mentioned sports and athletes, if they were to follow your rule of thinking then anyone who was more muscular than the average player would be disqualified because that is an unfair advantage of strength.
Are we seriously debating that the ability to press 15 keys in succession, half of which have very high cool downs, has really that high of a skill cap?It makes a lot of sense. You are choosing to disregard skill with character builds as your argument. By doing so, you are trying to nullify other people’s argument of skill instead of recognizing that this game revolves more around skill than +stats.
I also find it ironic that you want me to have a valid argument when you’d agree with an ignorant communist analogy.
Also, you bring up another faulty analogy. Athletes also spent time developing their muscularity. They don’t spent time working for gear that allow them to perform better. Muscularity is also something that is developed over time with effort, not gained through an outside source. There is also something called weight class and leagues in most sports, where people of similar levels of skill and aptitude are grouped together.
Replace that word with gear and you’ve just proved everyone who you argued against right.
You made me facepalm twice tonight.
Are you seriously gonna tell me that muscularity is an outside source like gear? you are going to tell me that time spent bettering yourself equals time spent getting equipment?
Sure, you can change a few words around in my post to suit your argument. It will only prove that you don’t have an understanding of what’s being said. You lack reading comprehension and critical thinking, evident from your earlier communism analogy.
Sleaze.3748You’re statement makes no sense and does not in any way debate that someones build doesn’t outweight a players skill… please approach me with a valid arguement time…
Also since everyone in this forum seems to love analogies and you mentioned sports and athletes, if they were to follow your rule of thinking then anyone who was more muscular than the average player would be disqualified because that is an unfair advantage of strength.
Are we seriously debating that the ability to press 15 keys in succession, half of which have very high cool downs, has really that high of a skill cap?
It makes a lot of sense. You are choosing to disregard skill with character builds as your argument. By doing so, you are trying to nullify other people’s argument of skill instead of recognizing that this game revolves more around skill than +stats.
I also find it ironic that you want me to have a valid argument when you’d agree with an ignorant communist analogy.
Also, you bring up another faulty analogy. Athletes also spent time developing their muscularity. They don’t spent time working for gear that allow them to perform better. Muscularity is also something that is developed over time with effort, not gained through an outside source. There is also something called weight class and leagues in most sports, where people of similar levels of skill and aptitude are grouped together.
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Naoko.7096In reality, you don’t see a martial artist who train much harder than other casual trainees yet still having the same strength and level as the rest.
This is the dumbest analogy I’ve ever seen. Time spent practicing a certain skill does not equate time spent attaining a certain gear.
If you were to articulate your logic correctly, your analogy would be along the lines of “a boxer gets better by spending time to get a better pair of boxing gloves,” instead of “a boxer gets better better by spending tome to practice.”
Pilusilm.5682GW2 is like communism where everyone is supposed to be equal and see how communism turned out to be. Not so great.
So organized sports is also communist? If two fencers have to use the same sized swords in competition, it’s communist?
Sleaze.3748I also wonder how people keep throwing around the word that this game is strictly about skill, when in fact it is primarily about you’re build compared to the given situation… only after that is player skill taken into account.
People continue to do so because it’s not true. It’s your way of disregarding the skill argument, by disregarding its existence.
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I find the low level armors are typically pretty realistic.
I liked the Sylvari starting zone.
It can’t be carebear if it’s about skill.
I’ve been playing MMOs for 15 years to, the thing I do not need is a gear grind. I despise them generally, it’s an incredibly weak mechanic and is needed by the MONTHLY pay gimmick to keep you …. paying.
I prefer to have fluff to grind for if I want TO, not because I need TO. This is a PvP game, as soon as you PvEers wrap your little heads around that notion we can progress beyond all these “we need mounts” “we need more end game content” “we need raids” crap.
Nobody LIKES grind, but we do it because it gives us the edge in PvP
This sentence sums up the real reason people wants raids & co.
They want to outgear people they can’t outskill.I’m so happy that this will never happen in GW2.
Pretty much this.
I’ve only played MMOs for a few years, mostly WoW and a few other less known ones. I can honestly say that all the fun I’ve had with online gaming, including games that aren’t MMO’s had nothing to do with “progression.”
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Because people aren’t ready for no levels yet. It’s really simple as that.
You might not like levels, other people might not like levels, I don’t like levels too. It doesn’t change the face we are completely outnumbered by those who do.
I’ve been playing different characters at a brisk pace, so sadly I won’t be able to participate in this thread.
Hitting some sort of cap in terms of character power.
PvP
Doing interesting dungeons with interesting people.
and that’s the WoW problem. the problem with WoW, with its gear and its mount is that blizzard CONSTANTLY. CONSTANTLY, had to 1up themselves in more extreme and more awesome. at lvl 60 they had crazy rhino-like mounts and shoulderpads with giant spikes. then when the cap went to 70 they went even crazier. and even crazier at 85. and then suddenly you had people wielding two-handed weapons the size of the eifel tower and mount riding on Apollo 13.
This is spot on. I too got really tired of how Blizzard had to one up themselves on everything, do the point where everything breaks immersion.
I don’t see anything wrong with the current armor system.
Probably ranger. I play one and it’s sort of ez mode for me at least.
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