Guild Wars 2

To the OP…perhaps as a single-player cooperative rpg, but that is about it.

My biggest beef is combat mechanics.

What I dont like, and the reason why many mature mmo enthusiasts aren’t playing much longer is that combat and wvw is meaningless.

Specifically about individual player on player combat mechanics, the combat mechanics that are absolutely necessary for organic player-centric and involved game-play against opposing players is the skill-based and directional combat mechanics, like that found in the game “War of the Roses”.

It is a smart, refreshing, tactical, strategic, player cooperative & competitive AND rewarding mechanic of something that should be truly meaningful; player combat management. Directional attacks and defenses that force the player to actually be engaged in combat instead of passively involved after hitting a button.

Its’ combat mechanics, have combative encounter risks and rewards that are not found in any mmo, and which is one of the greatest faults of the mmo products that have been served-up in the last several years.

So after having had the opportunity to play some War of the Roses and reflect on the combat mechanics of GW2, I have this opinion that comparatively, the combat mechanics design of character combat in GW2 is absolutely horrible and unrewarding. Can be said with most other mmo’s, but as the new kid on the block game, the developers missed out on a huge opportunity in this regard.

So worth the $60 bucks here….perhaps….but not for longevity. I’d be substantially more captivated and engrossed in GW2 if player combat and player combat mechanics actually mattered, but it doesn’t.

Thought came to mind, some may not give it any thought, but I’d be interested in how others feel that have actually played and experienced such a comprehensive skill-based combat mechanic.

For a long-time organic mmo enthusiast, after having played GW2 since launch, having played a few classes, and much of it in the acclaimed WvWvW, the combat mechanics that are absolutely necessary for organic player-centric and involved game-play against opposing players is the skill-based and directional combat mechanics of War of the Roses.

What a smart, refreshing, tactical, strategic, player cooperative & competitive AND rewarding mechanic of something that should be truly meaningful; player combat management.

Its’ combat mechanics, have combative encounter risks and rewards that are not found in any mmo, and which is one of the greatest faults of the mmo products that have been served-up in the last several years.

So after having had the opportunity to play some War of the Roses and reflect on the combat mechanics of GW2, I have this opinion that comparatively, the combat mechanics design of character combat in GW2 is absolutely horrible and unrewarding. Can be said with most other mmo’s, but as the new kid on the block game, the developers missed out on a huge opportunity in this regard.

I’d be substantially more captivated and engrossed in GW2 if player combat and player combat mechanics actually mattered, but it doesn’t.

Again, one small mechanics element, but one that goes a long-way. Thoughts?

Corian.4068:

Are MMO players trained to play for progression rather than for enjoyment?

I happen to think that progression in the life of a normal person engaged in a hobby, an entertaining endeavor, a pursuit, or life in-general is something (that pursuit) that is met with very rewarding outcomes; the outcome varies depending on who you are.

There are some folks that enjoy a pursuit, some entertainment, a life and hobby, but without progression or a rewarding experience; perhaps something that is shallow or non-progressive. Many might call that person and the engagement stale, dormant, dull, stagnant, foolish, or lazy.

Depends on what one believes, I guess.

Derpinator.2894:

Done caring. Just playing until I decide not to.

One of the better post titles. And true. GW2 isn’t a horrible game. And I don’t even care to read your post, because I feel what it is about.

The dullness of the game will only become more apparent as a short-while looms, so enjoy what you like about it today, because tomorrow, you wont even bother to care to engage in the sameness of this game, but hope to find something that some developer gets right for longevity.

As with most American things; “Made in China”.

OP…many can relate to your feeling, and they have already moved-on, so it’ll be a tad silent on this thread.

Bguk.1309:

Fun read. I would say that a 7.5 would equate to a C overall. At least that’s what a 75 was back in school.

Yes. A 7.5 is a solid C. Can’t argue with that. Good job OP. I thought it falls about into that category.

I thought it was extremely obvious when one received mail, with the ‘1’ above mail, just as when a new trait opens.

Guess it wouldn’t be a bad idea to have a big finger point to it when it happens within the starter area the first time.

Eochaidh.4106:

@Cik
This isn’t real life. People aren’t supposed to play GW2 as a second job to get rewards. This is meant to be entertainment, not another career.

Real-life shouldn’t be a socialist utopian either, though i can understand where some folks might expect that. . .~47%. But most strive for accomplishments and the personal rewards and tangible achievements that come with it.

Entertainment doesn’t have to be a second job; that is unless one chooses to think that anything that requires effort for a tangible reward that distinguishes one from another is a chore, and that which most successful folks are able to achieve within a virtual entertainment space is something that should be gifted to everyone, or in which everything should be homogenized to quell the minority disappointment in feeling inferior about not being able to achieve.

That’s all.

JakeLaw.6815:

I don’t see the point of playing it, you can PVP from level 1 and get max level 80 gear. When reaching max level you don’t get any rewards or any extra content you may do.

You’re not alone. Many think that it is One step forward, yet two steps back for the genre

http://syncaine.com/

Kouken.8604:

. . .
Personally allowing easy(ish) access to full exotics to most players is a perfect system. . .

Hmmm…I grew-up with the learning that a socialist system is far less than a perfect system.

But that’s me.

Dode, dude, dodge. This is a skill-based pvp game that only requires that you duck and dodge….that’s all. Every class and gear-set is homogenized to the point where this is a skill-less game if you’d only duck and dodge.

Most mature mmo enthusiasts are disappointed in GW2, from my perspective. The game-play isn’t social, the game-play is socialist-like with a ton of sameness. Players that engage the game are not rewarded to differentiate themselves with an edgier stat or attribute that enables them to stand-out for their achievement amongst their peer palyers, but are rather penalized with a sameness item or gear. As a result, all levels and gear is homogenized across levels to the point where there really ins’t anything rewarding from time-equity or achievement accomplishments from one player to the next, but a fashion-show.

Most probably enjoyed what they played so-far, due to the new car smell, but that is wearing quickly. As mentioned before, PVP, Dungeons and WvW are more or less the same, you will probably get people talking a lot more in WvW, but I would hardly say it’s social or meaningful game-play for anyone with a cooperative or competitive gaming streak.

So, I’d agree that, like TOR, game-play is pretty dulled-down from a perspective that it provides any longevity at all. I enjoyed the single-player cooperative time I’ve spent, but a massively-multiplayer organic player-centric and rewarding experience it is not, for the long-term; just like TOR imho.

Dead.7385:

Gear wise
Get exotics by:
Getting the 42K karma set
Getting a crafted set
Buy it
Dungeon runs
Get mythical by:
Doing a lot of crap
Questing wise:
Get 100%
Explore hidden DE’s
Crafting:
Get all crafting skills to max.
Dungeons:
Try and do every story/explorable path.
If none of the above – quit and come back when either
Content update happens
Expansion releases.
*Edit: Ohh yeah and find mystic forge exotics/recipes.

That sounds like a huge job, of which I perform 8-5 during the week, in real-life; not for entertainment.

Bad targeting and auto aggroing pets and turrets has been an issue for some time. Thats what I’ve experienced.

Rizzy.8293:

Really?
I hope you play with auto attack off.

But back to the point.
Yeah it would be nice just like in guildwars where you dont lose your target for some odd reason, Melee doesnt have this problem but when you range, its quite an issue.

But in any case this thread should be in suggestion forum for future reference.

That’s my point and suggestion to the topic. I should have clarified. Pets should not lose their masters target, agreed, and that is the only thing that should be automatic and entitled to non-skill based game-play. However, tab-targeting, auto targeting and auto-attacking for players should be completely removed from game-play. It is contributes to the farce of skill-based game-play.

50 Necro 5/10. Many others that have already stopped playing because the game is the most non-rewarding socialist utopian mmo on the market wont be around to provide feedback, so there is absolutely nothing statistical that can be gained from the input in this thread, other than surmising that it is input based on folks, that purchased, and who are more appreciative of the game than less.

Im on the cusp on leaving because it isn’t the pvp game hyped, and that player skill isn’t a component of pvp game-play and nor are players rewarded for their game-play and effort to be able to gain an edge based on accomplishments and game-play effort.

No friggin way, imho. There should be no target lock at all. As a matter of fact this should be the game of skill it isn’t; at least one has to re-acquire their target at times.

Following sports; Hobby or Addiction? I think the answer can be synonymous.

I agree with WasAGuest. Been my experience as well. So I agree that I’m at the point of the silver sink for a WP jump.

I agree….too costly to jump in and help. As he said, If I hoof it, most of the time I got there too late; so I stopped trying to join.

So I agree. I agree. Can we agree? I also think that Anet needs to lower WP costs so people can join in the events together. Again, I agree, as he said. . .it’s honest and true. . .the cost cripples my (and others’) ability to join the hot linked events.

Moonthrower.1406:

The core idea of this game is that your skill is what matters… not your gear.

Thats funny. Skill. Hmmm…I’ll start this video about there. . .about skill. . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk-8Iph0PdU&feature=player_detailpage#t=253s

woodyfly.4169:

Everything is just about great but there’s one big problem… it’s simply not addictive. As I’m leveling up, I don’t feel stronger at all and I don’t feel rewarded.

Glad Im not alone here, as this is a huge gripe amongst many. Character progression and character development aren’t meaningful or important GW2, as I experience it.

The game feels like a simplistic shallow themepark mod. Great for kids that like equalization and sameness in entitlements, but everything is so simple and streamlined that mature mmo enthusiast such as myself feels like I’m just going through the motions, and getting bored after getting the gist of game-play from level 1-50.

GW2 comes across as a rather bland, paint by numbers experience. No progression, PvE incredibly dull (nothing changes except the scenery), WvW is a zerg fest which is not unexpected (how fast it got old is though), particularly with complete lack of tangible personal and team and server incentives and rewards to be involved, and spend on expensive upgrades and blueprints.

So for me, the main interest in getting this game was the PvP hype, which has become a mind-numbing time-sink that lacks personal gain, strategy, tactics and accomplished contribution while insulting players with equalized gear & level; some see it as socialist utopian crap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk-8Iph0PdU

Did the game take a gigantic step backwards in the genre? Perhaps. This game certainly didn’t innovate. Game-play certainly isn’t rewarding that enables me to challenge myself and earn an edge over someone else based on my greater effort. Leveling up in GW2 is just like leveling up in any other mmo, but without the independent or personal rewards that transcend trash gear.

Reading “the endgame re imagined”; it will make many pause and wonder if Arenanet really thinks many of their mmo enthusiasts really buy-into that nonsense after playing.

Many just got caught up in the sales hype and reading into their own interpretation of ArenaNets ambiguous promotions; perhaps going down as yet another poster-child for a socialist utopian themepark mmo; both pve and pvp.

Renome.2736:

Cik.6479:

MainFrame.4803:

Why are people complaining SO HARD about things.

Consumers have a tendency to complain if they find that their product or service is broken following purchase; they kind-of spent money on it.

Well, GW2 does give you everything they were promising, right?

Nope.

MainFrame.4803:

Why are people complaining SO HARD about things.

Consumers have a tendency to complain if they find that their product or service is broken following purchase; they kind-of spent money on it.

If you like getting kicked in the nads, Necro is for you.

OP, you are right-on. Your number 1, 2, and 3 are the exact flaws that are disappointing many mature mmo enthusiasts, especially those that appreciate something rewarding, personal and distinguishing for their more challenging achievements and accomplishments.

Aside from that, it is unfortunate that GW2 seems to favor those that appreciate sameness; favoring those that are disgruntled at mechanics of other games that provide rewards and a slight advantage to other players/participants based on their effort, when they feel as though they should have been rewarded because someone else accomplished something they couldn’t or didn’t at the time.

Best of luck.

The majority of the community knows, OP. Fun and mind-numbing repetition can only take an online experience so far if there isnt rewards; at least for the capitalist and achievement-minded folks, as opposed to the more minimalist expectation folks.

There is a significant reduction on return on fun when it isn’t rewarding.

Thinking that there is rewarding loot takes a suspension of disbelief.

Fun community game. Reply with one sentence, labeling this GW2 image.
http://postimage.org/image/lugpmb36r/

Read it. Was reading it supposed to magically make running a dungeon rewarding?

Malas.9425:

Cik.6479:

Not bored either, but not rewarding at teh same time. As many traverse through the learnings of the game and experience many of the little things, one big thing remains; those terrible dungeons in which THERE IS NO POINT and NO REWARDS.

We’ll see where it goes, but as a capitalist player at heart, that expects to be rewarded for engaging in greater challenge and cooperation, there should be a greater reward commensurate with it. That as opposed to being more socialist-minded where every player is handed-out the same measly reward regardless of effort.

There is a reddit link which you need to read and if you honestly still have the same opinion then you probably shouldn’t play this game anymore. The link is just a few short posts above. Have a good day.

One of the greatest accomplishments of Rift, was their incorporation of dynamic grouping; of which when you join an event, you can automatically opt-in to be a social team member to collaborate and cooperate more efficiently with the community.

That would be something that would be nice to have in open-world GW2 and WvW.

Not bored either, but not rewarding at teh same time. As many traverse through the learnings of the game and experience many of the little things, one big thing remains; those terrible dungeons in which THERE IS NO POINT and NO REWARDS.

We’ll see where it goes, but as a capitalist player at heart, that expects to be rewarded for engaging in greater challenge and cooperation, there should be a greater reward commensurate with it. That as opposed to being more socialist-minded where every player is handed-out the same measly reward regardless of effort.

Its a good game; best out there. But we still push the envelope of needs, is all. Like the complete lack of rewards for effort that do give those that put forth more effort a more rewarding reward that offers a slight advantage over a general item.

If there were something rewarding at the end of an effort, might see some change.

Casting class’ like Elem and Necro are widely known to be broken and ineffective….I’d say warrior.

This buy to play game is trying to get purchasers to buy their gold instead of from the Chinese, but the Chinese is cheaper to be honest.

OP, this is a buy-to-play game.

But this is a worthy thread of staying alive. Good job mods!

I enjoy the video alot, and there are balances that GW2 team needs to be on top of, as they are, but yea…very entertaining video and a breadth of fresh-air from someone that realizes the whats and whys of his dislikes with previous mmo’s and why this one has him hooked, perhaps millions of others too.

Thanks for the heads-up to NOT do dungeons, wasting time. I’m coming from a capitalist stand-point where cash rewards are king, rather than socialist stand-point where no one gets rewards, but a pittance is handed out to everyone for doing nothing worthwhile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ax-_06Acj8Y#t=28s

His honesty is refreshing; a departure from advertising site reviews that have permeated the industry in the past with reviews of other games labeled as mmo’s, but which are clearly gaming-review malpractice.

Tilron, how about putting up your build with traits that I may try. Thanks.

…just to complete the weapons section, here it is.

-Dagger MH

So many issues. It’s better than it was in Beta but still remains a Listless and unwieldy weapon. The only redeemable feature about this weapon is Dark Pact which allows you to briefly hold a target as “Someone” else beats the hell out of them. Because you can’t do it.

Necrotic Slash builds Life force but has nothing in the form of conditions, cripples, chills, bleeds, life steals or anything that might help you stay in melee range or stay in the fight longer which seems completely counterproductive to trying to maximize a MH dagger build by stacking Power / Percision / Crit Dmg.

If you want power the Axe offers More of it and not only that Offers greater ability to generate Life force, has a Cripple and allows you to gain Retaliation all of these things are excellent for melee and it’s NOT even a melee weapon.

Worse:

Quickening Thirst does not stack with itself. Having a Dagger MH and a Dagger OH will not give you 15% increased movement speed. You’ll just get the 10% MH speed boost.

Worse Yet:

Quickening Thirst does not stack with Signet of the Locust which is supposed to give you 10% speed for a total of 20% speed or 25% if Quickening Thirst stacked with itself. – Nope just 10%

I’d like to see Necrotic Slash apply a chill, cripple, life siphon, bleed or weakness something other than simply life force gen.

-Dagger OH

I have no issues with you Mr Dagger Off-Hand. Your probably one of the reason Necro is even playable.

-AXE

Simply put no longer viable in competitive SPvP due to being toned down from Beta in both power and attack speed the Axe simply can’t put out enough damage to even come close to winning a 1v1 fight. Even with full blown Zerker amulet stacking Crit damage will you only ever break 3500 dmg on Ghastly Claws against the weakest of targets. This used to hit for a good 5-6k and has been cut in 1/2.

Rending Claws is even weaker than the MH dagger but at least it offers a 600 range and applies a condition, weak as it is.

-Scepter:

It remains viable but still has massive issues as mentioned above with Lingering curse not stacking with Hemophilia.

-Warhorn:

The long cool downs keep this weapon shelved to the poor category. You can throw good money after bad and trait for it with Banshee’s Wail but that just knocks 4 and 1/2 sec’s off your cool down timer and adds 1 sec more to the Daze effect but does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING else. I know it says that it should increase the time swiftness and the locust are up, but it doesn’t.

Once again whether by bug or by design ( I mean it could be working on extending the time Locust swarm and swiftness are up, just the time it extends it for is less than a sec)

So 4 and 1/2 secs and a 1 sec longer a daze doesn’t seem worth a major trait to me.

See entire here, where credit is due. It is in-depth.

http://www.necrobator.com/forums/?vasthtmlaction=viewtopic&t=337

There is much more than just a ‘basic’ list of faults, and thinking otherwise is suspension of disbelief. Nothing that can’t be fixed, but address is absolutely needed.

This material is how I feel without re-writing it:

(Long Post)

So I actively run all 8 Professions. I run them until I understand them and until I can be decent with even the worst of skill and traits. Necromancer was my first love, I’ve ran it from day 1 on the BWE until now, I’ve been tuned in to all the changes and I keep hoping that ANet will correct some flaws.

But, at this point iv’e got to say: Necro is hands down the weakest profession in the game with some pretty big flaws/bugs in it at the moment. And it KILLS me that it’s this way. I want to LOVE necro so badly but there is so much WRONG with the traits, builds and abilities.

All of this is in regards to SPvP of course.

At the moment I regard Necro’s as free kills when I find them on the battle field. Among two equally skilled players regardless of build Necro will rarely win a 1v1 fight. They simply put too much is “Wrong” with the Necro to be played right.

Now the best build I’ve found to date is: http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fQEQNArYWjMaN7xbub0bKApCPPVw7oHIbMzUKcndA;T0Ag1CqoGzMmYM7Yuxkjt+YUxJgXAzFA

That is of course really THEE only useful build Necro really has at the moment building around the broken traits, skills and lackluster abilities. And this is really only useful simply because of Epidemic which spreads conditions to multiple people which is fine for big melee’s where you can stand off and create mayhem. But then again what class doesn’t create mayhem if it gets to stand back unopposed and cast away.

But even the condition necro has flaws:

First up – Lingering Curse does not stack with Hemophilia – So you can’t get 33% longer conditions from the scepter and have 20% longer bleed values. Weather this is a bug or by design I do not know, or it could simply be a UI glitch . Actual testing shows that they don’t (As far as I can tell)

But I’ll stop myself there if I am going to get into what’s wrong with the Necro’s I better do it by the categories.

Weapons:

-Staff:

Oh the staff how we are forced to take you. There isn’t a build out there that doesn’t have a staff in it, and if there is it’s for PVE. First off it is a totally contradictory weapon with an exceptionally weak spam able attack combined with an assortment of conditions. Simply put we are forced to take this because of the utility rather than anything it does simply because Necrotic Grasp is a Combo Finisher. I’d rather trade whatever meager damage this has and give it some sort of condition.

Nothing worse than switching to this weapon in combat (as a condition Necro) to use it’s Marks and then spending a good 10 sec’s being useless as you spam Necrotic Grasp hitting for around 300 dmg a pop until you can switch weapons.

My current.
/15 characters?