Guild Wars 2

No one can defeat Lucas!!!!
With that curly blonde mullet and NES travel case.
You can only cry, look jealous and walk away slowly muttering
“Caaaliforrniaa”

Power Gloves sound pretty sweet.

Use Pistols with Coated Bullets to tag lots of enemies.
Keep moving on the outskirts of the Zerg battle and focus downed enemies and enemies standing still skill spamming.
This is where you can do very well since you can use a variety of tools to finish ppl off, you can tag them with conditions (poison works great on downed), you can use Elixir S and Throw Elixir S (if the RNG don’t fook u), Blinds, Static Shield (if you have a shield), smoke field etc.
Even the FT if you focus on downed enemies you can usually counter them being healed.

If you want to be effective AND get tons and tons of bags you will have a hard time. If bags is all you want just grab Grenades and strafe around spamming until you get focused and have to run or confusion and retal cause u to heal.
Even still it is always better to focus on downed enemies during Zerg battles and Grenades also do that job nicely.

If you are looking for something that we can contribute to shape the way the zerg battle is played out, like for example Guardians Wall Block or Mesmer Portals or Necro Marks, then yeah…….no.
Unless you manage to Hero and get lucky with Tornado from Elixir X there isn’t much that Engineers can do better or unique from other professions when it comes to large fights. The same seems to hold true for dungeons.

^
This actually sounds awesome.
Rather then removing Immob, cripple or chill you could transfer it to the enemy and then blast away.
Given the selfstun you receive it would be very helpful if you had a chance to root your enemies for a second or two giving you time to recover.

Of course if it worked the way RB does now, which is blast you away before removing CC, so if you have CC you get blasted in place or half distance, then I still wouldn’t use it.

Throw Elixir S is RNG so it doesn’t always secure stomps at all.
You could get Stealth when trying to spike a Guardian and get knocked back or you could get Stability when spiking an Ele/Thief/Mesmer just to have them move when Stealth might have tricked them or you get burnt down by his teammates because you are visible.

You could also get Stability when trying to avoid focus and die where Stealth would have saved you or vice versa.

If everyone is going to continue talking about every aspect of every skill when you are specced in every different way they should stop leaving out ALL the pros and cons just because they don’t support the argument.

Did anyone bother to mention that when you are under Elixir S you lose your weapon stats and sigils? So these OP “free” hits you could get by switching to your kit came at the cost of X Power, X Condition Duration, 5% Dmg and X Sigil Stacks?(or w/e your weapons have)
(this still happens btw)

Considering Anet all but agrees that we NEED to have a Kit equipped and since they are now trying to push for Turrets, that is 2 utility slots taken up just for the Kit and Turret, 2 Turrets!? all of them taken.
Kits nor Turrets have Stunbreakers and besides EG #4 Kits also lack any type of quick movement ground covering mobility skills provided to other professions.

So it seems to me that having an “All-in-One” type of Stunbreaker/offensive/defensive survival tool is perfectly fitted to the profession that has a lot of “All-in-One” type skills.

Lastly the way you all pick apart each others arguments so you can only respond to things out of context makes you really sound like a bunch of politicians.
And any good politician would know that you never agree that it was okay to take something away even if you feel it was justified, that’s how more things get taken away.

So good job to all the forum warriors spending so much time agreeing with Anet’s really good decision to change something that has been there since release because they just now decided it doesn’t really work how they intended. You and Anet both sound like you really know what you are talking about.

And we will all thank you next month when SD gets a ICD and HGH gets a stack limit, gimping some of the last familiar gameplay the Profession has left.

Not everyone thinks its so fun to constantly have to change around the way they play because the Devs decide to make giant changes without proper testing (test server!)

^
I would actually take the new KR over Scope, whether Scope worked or not.

Trying to compare or balance skills across different professions is useless and should not be done at all.

There are a lot of things professions can do better than others and some that no other professions can do at all. (Portals)

The Elixir S nerf seems to be much more a blanket nerf that they added to just make it the same as a similar skill. The Devs did not go into any great depth of detail to explain the change because there wasn’t any to go into.

They just stated that Elixir S was a powerful disengage tool and since it could also be used for stomping they felt that it should be nerfed.
There was no explanation or great detail given about how the skill fits(doesn’t fit) with the rest of the Engineer profession as opposed to Mist Form and other similar skills, because there is no explanation besides they were just making 2 similar skills equal to each other on paper.

One of the interviewers brought up the point that now Elixir S will be a very obvious visual queue that we used a Stunbreaker and enemies will just simply wait and time their attack for right after we pop out. You could tell by the simple reaction of the Devs that they hadn’t really thought about that and don’t really care, “you could just use a dodge afterwards” was the response given.

I personally think that there should be NO balance or skill changes until the rather extensive bug list for each profession is brought down to less bullet points.
Unless something is SO powerful that there is no counter it should just be left alone until other bug, glitches and flaws are addressed.
Otherwise how will you ever know how balanced it is if everything isn’t working!

I would rather Scope get switched to a more shotgun oriented trait.

Plant Feet
Xcrit% for targets 200m or closer with Rifle.
or
Both Barrels
X% chance to fire double shots with Rifle.

Embrace the Shotgun ppl it will make you feel better.

hmmm.
I thought this was known, it came up briefly awhile back but I think it was part of the bigger discussion of also losing Sigils and Stats when switching to kits.

Its not anything too bad for most ppl but certainly has the potential to more negative.
Besides the Sigil stacks it also has an effect on anything feeding off of your weapons stats, like Blood Injection trait.

If I remember right Elixir X has the same problem.

Well I kinda built my Engineer around Confusion so its more than just Mesmers that were affected.

I don’t know if 50% nerf was warranted or not and I guess only time will tell.

I do know that cutting the damage of something in half is pretty extreme and since Anet lacks test servers I think they could have started out with a 15-25% nerf and then waited a month to see.
Its not like Confusion was breaking gameplay so I think they could have afforded the time to adjust it more slowly.

No this is a thread for people to vent about the fact that they lost.
You know this just as well as I do.
If you think the nerf was justified than guess what you already won, good for you.
Why would you then come to the thread of kitten off ppl and call them crybabies.
This thread IS about ALL of those things because the ppl who do not agree with the nerf think that Elixir S was fine the way it was when you look at how it worked all together with the rest of the Engineers skills. So you just pointing out all the pros while leaving out everything else is just misleading.

Most of all a person would have to been a true idiot if you ever really thought that you would wake up to a new quickfix and a statement from Anet that reads
“We nerfed something on the Engineer and they got really upset and wrote a bunch of stuff about how we were wrong, so uh, we changed it back”

Everyone knows.
Something that a lot of ppl really liked got nerfed and they complain about it because that is all they can do.

What you get in the end is a complete overaction by those people(<-me) and they end up ranting and raving at you because you threw mud in their eye.

So I apologize for the personal attack. I did take most of your comment out of context. I was tired and didn’t exactly read Mifs..uh idea that you were directly responding to.
But as much as you imply everyone else is dumb, a smart person would have just let the anger thread.

You should all use your own logic on yourselves.

Everyone is so quick to point out that Engineers could use Kits skills while tiny.
A more accurate point would be they could use 1-2 skills while tiny.
You all cry how overpowered this is.
None of you care to point out the view from the Engineers opponent.
Look how obvious the Elixir S animation is!
if you get hit with a Kit attack while the Engineer is Tiny it is because you failed to dodge or block or simple move away from him.(thts why good instagib Thieves would immediately stealth or shadowstep after I popped Elixir S, the bad ones stood there and took my prybar) It took a full second to switch back into a kit after using Elixir S, I would say that is a pretty nice grace period to avoid what’s coming. It is certainly more than you get when that instagib Theif comes for you.

That is actually pretty balanced, we can get 1-2 attacks while invulnerable but there is a 1 second visual warning to our enemies.

We have a Rifle in name and appearance only.
For all other purposes we have a Shotgun.

If they simply made KR work only in combat it would make it a much more desirable feature.
Since all of the effects are designed to be used while fighting I don’t see how this isn’t the case.

They could keep everything else the same and the new timer would just be icing on the cake.

Everyone does need to move on.
But we haven’t been given anything new, the Healing Turret just had some things fudged around.
Elixir S wasn’t holding anyone back from trying new things.
Everyone had already tried the other options and decided to go with Elixir S.
Elixir R used to be the ultimate Stunbreaker for us specifically because of the Thrown effect.
Then they upped the CD so much that ppl started to look elsewhere, meaning the only other Stunbreakers we had;
Elixir S
Rocket Boots
Utility Goggles

Out of those 3 its hard not to justify taking Elixir S. Now instead of making the other 2 better to try and diversify they simple made one worse and added another Elixir Stunbreaker last month.

Making a Kit or Turret Stunbreaker would have actually diversified the class and opened up opportunities for new builds.
Instead they just made something worse that everyone will most likely take anyways, otherwise they will just fall back onto Elixir R.

Kimbald.2697:

CriSPeH.8512:

KR is just a niche trait for single Kit users.
I recently tried a P/P HGH condition build with Medkit+ B,C,S thinking I would use KR for the Magnetic Shield.

It works okay if you only think of it as more of a RNG effect that will happen sometimes while you are fighting. Having more than one kit makes this even more so.

not saying it’s bad that way, but would you seriously take it over speedy kits, deployable turrets or static discharge, or even speedy gadgets depending on the build?

I can imagine taking it over dropping a flamethrower when downed, not over any of the others. Given that at least one of those should benefit any particualr build more.

I agree
I can’t exactly say the new KR is bad but I wouldn’t take it over the other choices in the Trait line.
So KR, like the recent Self-Regulating Defenses went from some of the best 10pt Traits to just another 10pt Trait.
Still can be useful but not Traits to builds anything around.

Crunkmagnet.3908:

Blacky Sheaperd.8690:

ok. so you know what we do?

we make 30 different “FIX SCOPE” threads in the engi forum, plaster the front page with them.

If that doesn’t get Anets attention to how much the engi community wants this useless trait fixed, nothing will.

Seriously, this is one of the worst cases of developers ignoring glaring development issues i have ever seen in a game.

if they still refuse to listen to the community, just say kitten it and uninstall the game.

this is a matter of principle people!

I’d call it a matter of priority more than principal. The game had and has bigger problems than the Scope trait.

Okay!??
By tht logic the game had and has bigger problems than Tooltip errors or 90% of the other fixes they release every patch.

Fixing a Trait that might not work and even if it does it still sucks should be a priority over smaller balance issues.
The Dev said the Trait sucks but they choose to address QQs in the PvP forums.

KR is just a niche trait for single Kit users.
I recently tried a P/P HGH condition build with Medkit+ B,C,S thinking I would use KR for the Magnetic Shield.

It works okay if you only think of it as more of a RNG effect that will happen sometimes while you are fighting. Having more than one kit makes this even more so.

^
I also don’t see what this “allowed to use kits while invulnerable bs is”?

After popping Elixir S you had a choice;
Switch back into a kit because Elixir S switches you out of it and possible get off a grand total of 2 skills, in WvW and any skilllag you will be lucky to use 1.
or
Use your Heal.

Everyone claiming tht you can just use your kits while invincible the whole time is very misleading.

The same could be said for Static Shield. Did you know you can pop that and switch to another kit and get a skill off while under the protection of your shield!
I guess the Shield will be the next thing nerfed because of this great OPness.

OP gets tossed around so much you all don’t even know the meaning of the word anymore and neither do the Devs.

I do not agree with the Elixir S nerf and I think it was just that a nerf, not a fix to anything OP.

BUT Endure Pain is not the same and in the context of the Warrior and how it is used along with their other skills I think it fits very well and should not be balanced against Elixir S or any other skill.

2 Skills from different professions should never be balanced just solely off eachother but off how the skill itself acts with the profession and gameplay.

Downed skill #2 should be changed to Drink Elixir S to match Vapor Form.
Self-Regulating Defenses should be changed to Super Elixir of something.

Gizmoitus.7241:

Oh sorry I didn’t notice. Still ganking just as much as I was before. Still using Elixir S just as I was before, I use it to soak up the noticeable big hits. Stop using it as a get out of jail free heal. We aren’t broken, the sky is not falling. Either learn to play or adapt your build. There are still viable builds. I really hope most of you don’t go through life giving up on everything that gives a little resistance, because you won’t make it very far! Theorycraft , test new builds give everything a shot. It doesn’t hurt you to try, if you ride the flavor of the month train you will continuously be disappointed.

You must have just started playing.
Given the history of the Engineer patches, that is all Engineers have done since release.
Theorycraft and try new builds each time the patch comes and changes them.
We used to not have Sigils working with Kits or even auto-auto-attacks on our auto-attack. We went from Juggernaught doing one specific thing to it doing something completely different.
We have had popular traits completely redone, pre-nerfs for future buffs and a back and forth on what the actual purpose of the Engineer is.
Sucks to all the ppl that went full out GC because they discovered the Engineer can burst only to be told “no we don’t want you to burst”
Then they switch to full out Cond. Dmg only to be told “hmm we don’t want you to have so much Cond. Pressure”
Thieves can still deliver upwards of 18k instantly in WvW but we get a 50% decrease in Confusion damage, I bet if Thieves got their instagib dmg halved there would be some QQing going on.
For like 9 months now Elixir S has been working the way it is working and yes it is powerful but in the context of the rest of the Engineer skills I think it was just that, a powerful skill that could be used to great use, much like Shadow Refuge.

So I truly admire your attitude and you are 100% right that all ppl can really do is just move on and find something else.
But you also can’t fault the complaints of ppl who have just been having fun and didn’t feel like any aspect of there skills was OP when compared to some of the other skills and abilities they face.
I duel a lot in WvW with all different classes, I have never thought tht Elixir S made me godlike and unbeatable, I more thought, if I wasn’t able to Turtle and Heal I would have died, or I would have died even faster.

If you are in combat Super Speed will be faster than Swiftness, in combat

out of combat Super Speed and Swiftness are the same.

Super Speed ignores light CC.

It is meant to be used in combat, not as a distance running tool.

The Tooltip is just horrible, as is most tooltips.

This would really be a really nice thing to do now since ALL Signets just got a 100% stat increase.

We get no increase to any passive stats.

The voices in my head when I read what Anet writes!

“We admit that some Engineer traits and skills suck, however we would rather mess with the ones that don’t suck so we can force ppl into using the ones that do, once everyone has resorted to using the sucky skills we can make small changes to them to trick those ppl into thinking their builds are getting better!”

Quite genius if you ask me.

You should only look at the Healing Turret (and all skills) from a tPvP perspective.
That is what Anet and our so called “Top” Engineers do.

Apollo.7583:

CriSPeH.8512:

Wonder if the bug will be addressed along with the nerf to the skill.

It was nice to be able to go invulnerable and maybe heal or get a “free” attack off but since there aren’t ANY other professions that can do things while they are immune to damage I can see why we need the change.

Eles could before nerf. Mesmers have distortion. Guardians can pop virtues with their invunl. Warriors can use all skills with endure pain. Rangers have protect with pets (though that hurts the pet so not really a complete immune). So any is a little off.

I was being snarky and sarcastic.
If any professions needed to be able to use skills while invulnerable it was Engineers, but it was removed to make us even with Ele’s on paper.

lunyboy.8672:

Primarily because they are balancing these classes now for a sPvP e-sport, and not listening to the PvE and WvW players as much, and these players with the highest skill ability are more likely to complain about what THEY consider to be game imbalancing factors without looking at the broader picture, like how to survive in Arah, or how a mid-statted Engie would contribute less to a party in any higher level fractal.

Or for that matter, how many Engies are playing their game.

If there had been a real effort to keep PvEers happy, this gap between sPvP and PvE would be much wider by now, and things like bleed caps and conditions in general would have been reworked to not be COMPLETELY USELESS in any end-game PvE content.

In an effort to prevent min-maxing and make the game “fun,” they have succeeded in letting the people who min-max anyway to dictate the nerfs for their associated classes.

This is where the Engineer is left out in the cold, because they were an after-thought, without the benefit of a focused set of professional abilities, s/he borrows from other classes, mostly with kitten versions of others abilities. Every OTHER profession has at least one pillar they can lean on for basic builds, something they can fall back on and be productive if they run with that in green armor and trinkets.

This is why the other professions, for the most part, are seeing buffs now, as the dev team goes back to those profession mission statements and says, “what is the professions primary mechanic, and what attention does it need?”

They go to the Engineers, and without actually paying attention to what they are looking for in their builds, they “balance” them based on the peaks, without looking seriously at the valleys. In this patch, we had a nerf of two of our only truly useful bunker skills, Elixir S (as you said) and the stealth on root trait. They also nerfed our healing turret, while pretending to buff it if you are able to keep it alive. Which is what we have been complaining about on ALL TURRETS SINCE DAY 1. They don’t scale with our builds, don’t crit, don’t move(that’s fine), don’t receive buffs, or heals or any other benefits from our actual builds except condition damage/duration on Flame turret (I haven’t tested this recently). With the exception of the guardians spirit weapons (which got a buff this patch) they are the most useless pet mechanic in the game, hands down.

And the Engies are back on this forum as well as countless others confused as to why HGH didn’t get nerfed (or an SD cool-down which I completely expected), because we all expected that, but the bunkers among us can’t believe that Elixir S got the hammer. We don’t have the heals to sustain a bunker build without using S the way we have, and this will be reflected in play and engineer population.

This is an issue with selection effects as much as anything else, if any ANet employee is reading this, please consider actually data-mining information on who is running which skills, traits, food, runes, and sigils on their builds and the success or failure of those individual skills against how many engineers you have lost because people considered them unplayable. Also consider the average skill of your player base when making this decisions in the future, don’t just cater to the OEs among us.

Well said.
And sadly very true.
This profession has no direction and the Devs do not seem to even be interested in it at all.

^
I object.
You do not run away really fast.
Just seems that way because of our tiny legs.
Really we just run as fast as the enemy does right beside us waiting to further punish us or force us into also using 2 dodges.
;)

well.

Ouch after this patch.
Looks like Elixir S is 10x trickier,
Cloaking Device is a little longer but only 1-2 times per fight maybe,
I am not sure Confusion will counter instagib Thieves any longer since they will burn you down before confusion does them.
And looks like a nice round of hit you through your Gear Shield skills were passed out.

Kinda sucky since there seems to be a lot tht weakens the builds but not much that strengthens it at all.

I am a little scared to go dueling now.

Well its not so much the Nerfs that bother me since I saw most of them coming, except Cloaking Device CD where the kitten did that come from????

Its the lack of anything else that says they are going to do anything with the profession besides fix tooltips and make blanket changes based off 1 to 1 data on paper.

Oh well, think I’ll just keep my eye on tht Wildstar from now on to see how it’s turning out.

Great thx for the fix.
Now that it is ruined I will prolly just use Elixir R now.

Thanks Anet.

I forsee another attempt to diversify Engineer builds by nerfing the current most popular one but giving little other changes to persuade Engineers into a different route.

So unless they decide to put a CD on Static Discharge this patch I have a feeling the next month will see an increase in the amount of SD Burst Engineers desparately trying to hold on to one of the few things we have left.

Then of course next month the SD CD will come and eliminate that build.

Also a few tooltip fixes that wont work!

^+1
The visual queue for the Enemy should be nothing more than a big red ring on the ground like everyother GTAoE.

The animation of the Supply Crate(or any skill) should not display unless the skill actually deploys.

This is a bug not a balance issue.
Just like the Elixir S camera bug.
Meaning we will just have to live with it.
Anet has more important nerfs to think about.

This is a bug not a balance issue

+1
Lag makes this much much much much much much much worse.

JubeiTM.5763:

Engineers didn’t get nerf at all, they were just playing around with numbers. The result is almost the same. Curious to see how the healing turret is doing.

The Elixir S change will be one of the bigger nerfs our profession has received.
This is by far our most popular Stunbreaker and really our best means of disengaging.
Since Engineers lack the ground covering skills that most other professions have, alot of ppl relied on Elixir S to either turtle up and heal or combo into another defensive skill to get away.

I spend most my time in WvW and most Engineers that manage to escape don’t do it just using Elixir S, they needed to be able to combo right into gear shield or smokebomb. See we lack RTL or Blink or Heartseeker or Savage Leap or any other quick mobility type skills, so Elixir S allowing utility skills really put us closer to even with other professions. especially in WvW and PvE, since those other professions can use all those type skills to catch right up to us.

This seems to a straight out of tPvP nerf since you don’t draw as much focus and don’t have to run as far to get away. In WvW and PvE alot more Engineers are going to be eating dirt this next week.

What is this sPvP you speak of?
Me only knows the grandness of WvW.
Ane me no sees no Turret builds working in there!

I will say that we are much more likely to receive a new Kit than receive access to a new weapon.
Imo Hammer would fit really nice with Engineer but I seriously we will ever get tht or any other of the current weapons. Maybe new weapons types one day.

Chainsaw Kit sounds kewl and they already have the Skin for it, just need a plain brown leather hobo sack with unrelated stuff hanging off it to finsih the look.

Elixir S will now exactly equal Mist Form
(except for the extra traits associatied with the latter)

Doesn’t look like any other thought of different playstyles or level of survivability went into that decision.
So I don’t see ANY reason why those 2 traits shouldn’t be made to be equal also.

@John
I realize I went I little off and thats wasn’t the intention of your topic.
However Thieves and somewhat Warriors have and have had a good amount of stong and useful builds. Both have high bursting gimmick builds that individually seem like they are more popular than all the Engie builds put together.

Engineers have had the popular builds systematically removed without any kind of counter measure to help balance it out. Its just been “This is too strong so its gone.”

HGH has been around since release and has recieved few direct changes, it has only gotten stronger with the various fixes to Sigils and things like Giver’s weapons, 2 months ago there wasn’t anyone talking about HGH it was all about 100nades.
The last SoTG the Devs didnt say much at all about HGH being too powerful and having too much Condition pressure, it was all about how KR wasn’t working as intended and that they didn’t want the Engineer professions specifically to be able to to do burst damage that you could potentially put out.

So the entire build and playstyle was Deleted not changed or nerfed or altered but completely removed. So kitten all you players that spent the time and effort to try and gear and build for High Crit Dmg.
Afterwards since every other KR type builds was also removed alot of Engies tried and failed to make a good Turret build and eventually fell back on the HGH type builds that have always been there. Once again putting all the time and effort in to speccing for Cond. Dmg and/or Duration

Now SoTG comes up again and we are told that not only do they not want Engineers to be able to provide high direct dmg bursts but that they also don’t want us to be able to provide such high condition pressure.
So looking back at the history of how Anet solves these problems with Engineers being to powerful I think any freak out from the Engie community is very justified.
We are not supposed to do bursts, We are not supposed to do good conditions, and We are not supposed to do any kind of high damage with Grenades at all it seems.
Not to mention they are throwing in a nerf to our best Stunbreaker with no better reason than “it should be like other professions not better at all”

So Thieves and Warriors can cry upset too that the changes aren’t to their liking but both those professions have a plethora of other options to choose from and the changes they are getting are actually good changes that can diversify their builds rather than just a bunch of new effects with a ridiculous GCD.

Notice how they didn’t remove damage from Mug at all just stopped it from critting while giving it kittening healing.
Yet they completely removed Barrage from KR and replaced it with a mine on a 20sec GCD.
Why couldnt we just get a simple change like KR barrage can no longer crit.!?

Nothing will change the fact that the Devs don’t know how to balance the professions and don’t seem to really give a flying kitten about it in the first place.

We will get a smaller Turret buff that makes no sense and then a huge round of nerfs from specific Engineer ones like Elixir S to blanket ones 50% Confusion Dmg reduction and possible limit to Might Stacking.

In the end HGH will still be one of the better builds because in the effort to diversify us they just keep deleting w/e is most popular without returning anything new or better and we have finally started coming to the point where there just isn’t much else we can turn to.

So next week there will still be just as many HGH Engineers as now (which isnt many) its just they will weaker to the point where nobody will care about them anymore just like 2 months ago.

well it is our only melee attack besides prybar.
I would say Daze on the 3rd atk wouldn’t be that bad.
But then again I hardly ever actually try and attack ppl with my TK autoatk and I have yet to ever see anyone else try and do it in WvW either, so I can’t say I know enough about the autoatk to say what would make it OP or something I would actually use.

I don’t really care if it gets changed or not because the rest of the TK is just awesomeness and if they want to change anything it should be making Box O’ Nails instant cast.

Just took 19k instant dmg from a Thief using Steal+C&D+Backstab.
Good thing they are nerfing them so that will only do around 17k dmg.
Confusion 50% nerf though.

I am now confused.

I don’t see what there is to be optimistic about.
Even the Devs arent excited about the profession.
Just look at their tone when they get to the Engineer section on the list in SoTG.
They all but huffed and rolled their eyes.
“uhhh the Engineer”

LOL
sigh yeah I guess I shoulda thought of that.

I orginally wrote in Daze for the 2nd or 3rd atk but thought maybe that would be too much to suggest.
They should cripple traitlless and the trait should add Daze.

Ya thts what i meant…

^
I didnt intend to sound mean or really direct my answer at you personally cuz I know alot of ppl have to same view.
And I apologize for the last remark since it was pretty kittenish.

But it just really bothers me that the Devs themselves seem to balance certain things in this 1 for 1 type way but other things are given a pass because they are just something unique to the profession.

Engineers are running out of things that are unique to the profession and having one of the best Stunbreakers (minor accomplishment) is about to be another one gone.
Soon we will just have the Gift of Opportunity which we will bestow on our enemies each time we shrink down and tell them to count to 3.

How was Elixir S and exploit?

Are we supposed to have completely equal skills in every area with other professions?
If thts the case I can think of some other classes skills that should be brought down/up to ours.

Should the Ranger Minor Trait Natural Vigor be moved up to a GM like Adrenaline Implant or vise versa?
That is an argument that has already been made and the defense was that because everything else was different with the profession there was a reason why one is better than the other.

I can think of alot of things that Ele’s have over Engineers that would warrant us being able to use Utility Skills while under Elixir S.
Like someone else already said maybe our downed #2 needs to get switched to drink Elixir S.

Otherwise any arguements about how its just not fair we have a skill that is better than other ppls skill is just BS. Keep feeding the Devs stupid decisions!

It is decent dmg but not comparable to the other melee profession.
Thieves hit like Trucks cuz they are actually scooters in disguise.
Warriors and Gaurds might not hit as hard but have other passive damage mitgation that allows them to stand there and actually get the hits off.

TK auto attack doesnt hit hard enough to justify you standing there and waiting for it.
I would rather have the attack hit for less but apply more or different conditions like cripple or something.
Also since Confusion is getting nerfed it seems like a good thing to do would be to make Prybar able to hit up to 3 ppl, that sounds like a very fair balance to me rather than just a straight nerf.

^ I disagree with Engineers being dominated by Elixir Engineers. I have seen a good increase in the number of Engineers playing in WvW and PvP and almost none of them have been HGH Elixirs.
Most are somekind of Bombkit Hybrid Bunker or a wannabe 100Nades type build. In PvP there has been a surpising number of Turret triers.

So my question would be

1. Where is the evidence to actually justify the nerfs and changes the Engineers have recieved? You keep claiming you want to diversify Engineer builds but all you have done to accomplish this is systematically eliminate the most popular Engie builds every month. We even received a pre-nerf to Grenades because we were going to get Sigils in the future, a pre-nerf.
   In short WTF is your goal with this profession because it is becoming a waste of time having to constantly anticipate what build you will delete next and it is a waste of gold trying to spec for things tht will get removed if they are too good.

Thieves already have an auto destroy Engi button in WvW, Confusion is what countered Thieves from nuking and spamming you to death.

Now they will more than likely be able to down you while absorbing the Confusion Dmg.

A GC Warrior with a Rifle can now wait till tht 75% Elixir B pops before Killshotting you to death with a single hit.

These are also 2 professions that have a much longer list of Top builds than Engineers do so their crying doesn’t interest me in the slightest. The Thief is even complaing that if they miss or are blinded their attack will be wasted!?? YEAH YOU AND EVERY OTHER kittenING SKILL FROM EVERY OTHER kittenING CLASS.

If I use my Elixir S and the camera seizures out on me I will waste my single Stunbreaker/Disengagement Utility and it will mean instant death because I wont move anywhere and will no longer even have the option to try and heal.

TY for bringing to lite the complaints from other professions but considering how long Thieves got to play with permastealthing without any sort of counter and warriors continuing to have bursts that were taken away from Engineers I have to say I hope they receive nothing but nerfs 4ever.

The HGH build, which has been around since release, is a build that focuses on using Elixirs to build up Might so tht you can retain a certain amount of survivability through gear and not have to spec GC to do comparable damage.

So as long as you chug Elixirs and keep your Might stacks up you will fair pretty well against most other professions. HGH type builds have no burst and few combos, you can get away with just straight spamming if that is what the enemy is also doing, otherwise it is a very reactive type build that requires mitigating and countering opponants attacks while keeping up steady Cond. Pressure.

After the 100Nades quickgib was deleted along with other hybrid multi-kit builds that focused on the use of Kit Refinement. HGH type builds became the new “goto” build for Engineers despite the fact that it was always there. More or less it is so popular now because there isn’t really too much else.

If you are running the tPvP HGH version with Grenades you can expect it to be nerfed in the future because the Devs still believe Grenades are too powerful so they will be nerfed.
If you are running the WvW HGH version with Toolkit you can expect it to be nerfed because they have already said that it will be through some type of change to Might stacks and moreso the nerf to Confusion Dmg which was the builds main counter to getting instagibbed by Thieves and Warriors.
Both those 2 professions will be receiving buffs and specific hard counters to the soon to be nerfed HGH builds through Boon stipping.

So yeah like the OP said

Niiiiiiiiiiice!

The OP is correct but it really is more of a whine than anything.
The same could be said all this time for Necro’s and Corrupt Boon.

Yes a Warrior will get increased dmg but it wont make enough of a difference to counter the benefits of the buffs.
The bigger problem will come from Thieves Boon Stripping you before Hidden Flask kicks in and taking all of your pre built Might.

ty Yams, I did mean Thieves