So many people complaining about the wrong specs. Not every engineer is using decap build. Just because they knockback or pull you once, does not make it so. A good decap will have you CC’d chained for very long periods because they stack it in all their utility slots. What annoys me is that this is going to get my other specs reduced as a whole because of these stack builds.
A decap engineer does not use bombs/nades. That is the condition spam spec.
As for ele, I think the fresh air spec is in a decent spot, it’s just overshadowed by thief’s mobility. It certainly doesn’t need any more damage. I’d like to see more variety and specs though.
Engineers are already a top contender for variety as a profession. Not that I would deny them adding even more or making some changes, because a few areas could really use it.
The last time I used whirling axe on a warrior in WvW, he hit me for a 16k eviscerate. When spinning out, you are no longer in stealth, dodging, or using evades and are a sitting duck to certain attacks. Even so, warriors have a ton of ways to counter it. Damage immunities, dodges, blocks with shield, mobility if swords, weakness with horn, etc.
In WvW you spend a lot of time just running around looking for that good fight, so it takes longer to learn the mechanics. Not to mention, gear scaling and certain food/runes/sigils in WvW makes things even more imbalanced.
In spvp, you are instantly in the action and it’s more centered around small fights, so you get to know each classes flaws and counters much easier because of the constant fighting. Everyone has the same gear choices and it’s much more balanced in stats. You are fighting on equal ground. However, there are certain builds that work in one and not the other and in different situations.
I found the soundtrack for the event http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GlEeRnMJDM
CnD is already easy to counter with a dodge or block ability, as it has a cast time, even when using mug. In fact, the bursty nature of this is about the only reason to use D/D over D/P, which is superior in almost every way.
The current meta is conditions for every class pretty much. With Crt dmg being nerfed this will only become more true. I may start work on a condi guardian soon……
The current meta isn’t conditions for every class, unless you are roaming. Even then, you will still find power based thieves. The large groups are dominated by tanky warriors and guardians with other professions supporting. Most of these are power based as well, because condition removal in large groups are numerous. Then again, on smaller populated servers, you might run into it more.
I have more trouble with engis – anyone have tips on how to beat engis in WvW?
Another thing: engis completely lack ranged weapons. So kiting them with your SBow can be really effective . Just be sure to take it out when you have Shadow Refuge ready, so that you can use it to wait the needed time to swap weapons again.
I’m not sure which game you are playing, but Engineers have a lot of ranged attacks. It largely depends on spec though, as to how effective they are.
Shadow Refuge is on a long enough cooldown already and is pretty much a bullseye for spamming aoe and CC here.
A good friend and teammate of mine quit shortly after this build came into the meta game. I’d also like to point out that two teams ran decap engis in the good fights tournament. Keep in mind this is a build that does offer any team support nor is it designed to kill people in a PVP GAME.
This absolutely terrible for the game and is incredibly hard to counter despite being incredibly easy to execute. It was bad enough having teams running super bunker comps but now bunkers can literally full cap your node when they have no intention of actually fighting you. I mean seriously?
PvP games aren’t just about killing people. They are about tactics and securing objectives as well. So it should be no surprise that someone actually builds for that in this type of game mode.
Heya Prysin =D
I’m running a 0 Crit 0-0-30-10-30 BM LB/GS (Dogs) build and get daily PMs about how tanky I am….curious if anyone else is doing it as I never see anyone built like me.
I often run a similar setup and it works quite well. That would be a version of BM Bunker build. Most people use different weapons though. In fact, I had another ranger telling me I was hacking before, because I was healing too much, haha.
I do it for two reasons that can be rather conflicting with one another. One, to deny the satisfaction of my enemy getting the death blow. Or two, because I find it amusing in a horrible situation and might as well get some laughs out of it. Not to mention, the lemmings who sometimes blindly jump after you and also fall to their death.
i like it +1
heres a con:
spvp — decap engis already get complaints for being good at what they do and they dont exactly have stab… and bomb kits in that build. and decap engi doesnt need buffs.itd be really nice in pve/wvw tho.. specially if its aoe, itd be really interesting.
A decap engineer would use a rifle or shield offhand for actually decapping, wouldn’t they? Pistol offhand would give them less ways to do this. You’d have to trade the rifle’s constant knockbacks or shield’s blast and knockback to even get the stability from glue shot.
I’m not sure why D/D would use soldiers, to be honest. You want a decent health pool to take a hit or two while out of stealth, but you shouldn’t be in the open for prolonged periods.
Toughness reduces the direct dmg you take. You’re gonna take a hit occasionally, no matter how pro you are. Read the link
Outside of one or two pieces I should have said, for certain slots. I’m still waking up, heh.
I’m not sure why D/D would use soldiers, to be honest. You want a decent health pool to take a hit or two while out of stealth, but you shouldn’t be in the open for prolonged periods.
S/P is cheese? Spam pistol whip? Have fun whiffing air repeatedly against anyone that is decent. You have to time pistol whip against someone, just as you would your evades, if the opponent is competent. Standing there slashing air is a good way to get killed. In fact, every skill in the set is used in a fight usually, unless the target is glass. I spend most of my time using skill 2 to teleport around and autoattack, waiting for my opponent to make a move and counter appropriately.
In a 1v1 against each other, D/P has the advantage, largely due to stealth. That’s not to say that a good S/P player can’t win though.
I remember a time when Necros didn’t even have that trait and got by just fine and dandy. The change makes using DS more important as a condition necro, which has always been underwhelming on a condition build. At least they didn’t remove it completely.
All builds don’t use Death Shroud in the same way. Different builds use Death Shroud for different purposes. Changing the Grandmaster trait like this is the worst change ArenaNet have ever done to a class.
It was: Choose how you want to play.
Now it is: Play like this or suck it.
Well, you are right about one thing. They should have made it in DS to begin with, instead of the current path. That way, no one would be used to using it like it is currently.
Worst change ever though? Hardly.
I’d go with guardian or warrior for aoe mob farm. They have good survival and the right tools for the job. Necro isn’t that bad either, but the others are faster.
I remember a time when Necros didn’t even have that trait and got by just fine and dandy. The change makes using DS more important as a condition necro, which has always been underwhelming on a condition build. At least they didn’t remove it completely.
I think we should just sweep this one under the rug…..oh wait.
Magic users typically use daggers because it’s usually a sacrificial weapon and typically favors the darker or spiritual side of magic.
Ranger with a greatsword? I guess you’ve never seen Beastmaster the movie or heard of Minsc from Baldur’s Gate.
This is the one thing I really hate about playing my necro. Honestly, all they have to do is lower the cast on flesh wurm so it’s an instant port. Would at least make it more bearable.
It’s a WvWvW and open pve rune for professions that are naturally slower, like mesmer or necro, or don’t want to waste a utility slot for increased movement and still work well with their build, like thieves and rangers.
There is no need for innovation to be skilled. All you need to do is evolve.
A person beats you, you steal their build and play it better. Eventually all the crap dies away and you are left with evolutionary perfection. You never had to create a build, yet you suddenly are the strongest at your class, merely by theft.
The only personal twist you need is your timings, skill choice, and map awareness.
Yes, but to evolve at all, you need those people who experiment with certain things. Toying and understanding mechanics and how things work on your profession, naturally makes you more skilled from learning and trial and error.
And sure, if everyone played the same spec, your argument could hold weight, but that’s not the case in a game like this full of multiple classes, specs, and choices. Timings, skill choice, and map awareness should happen regardless.
I’ve run around the corner firing net shot before and rooted myself on the glass panel from reflects; I sadly, but amusingly admit.
I’ve also watched an engineer try to knock me off a point and the self knock back threw him into the hole. Skyhammer can be quite fun at times.
(edited by Cyricus.2981)
Play an Engineer if that’s what you’re leaning towards. Grenades have nice range and do great damage. Rifle builds have decent range, good CC, and good burst up close. Grenades naturally support the group by stacking vulnerability so the the group does more damage as a whole, so it’s not even something you have to worry about. And using healing turret as your heal naturally supports others without you having to worry about it, as it’s healing and clearing conditions for you and them. A true support build would probably be setting up and blasting combo fields, which helps, but it’s not always needed so….
I never found sigil of strength to be that good with the few times experimenting with it. Might on swap from battle sigil is the way to go. In general though, I wouldn’t use two on crit sigils, as they interfere too much with one another.
Well, I use sword/x and greatsword on my ranger, switching to a bow when only absolutely necessary. Maul for opening strike and switch to sword for dps, switching again when I really need to dodge and sword auto might screw me up. I use spotter and frost spirit when grouping and buff/dps pets. I guess I’m a rare breed, as most I see are running around with bows. I love the greatsword animations on ranger, so I use it when soloing, but I am smart enough to know that 1 hand swords are the best for dps overall.
I never use more than one at a time and never even realized that they stacked to begin with. But, I think you are out of luck. Maybe open a petition or something and try?
This is the reason I hardly ever duel. I hate listening to trash talkers or people that make excuses/whine. Or people that just use cookie cutter specs. If you are gonna duel, you should be trying out your own builds. But, to each their own I guess.
if cookie cutter specs win, would you rather die and lose with…?
Dignity doesn’t win stuff dude, and this isn’t just in this game.
Stop hating on people for using the optimal build at the moment, why use something sub optimal…for pride? Are you kidding me?
Pride doesn’t win duels, specs do.
What is the point of winning with something tried and true and that everyone uses? You already know it’s effective. You are proving nothing by winning with it. You already know how to play it, because a hundred others before you were also using it.
Performing well with something crafted on your own earns you more respect in my opinion in a duel type setting. It’s not that I really hate cookie cutter specs, it’s the fact that people claim to be good from something someone else invented. At least put your own twist on it is all I’m saying.
Sword/X + GS works pretty good for a power build too for warriors, but I probably wouldn’t run offhand sword. Basically, you wear them down with sword, immobilize with burst ability, swap to GS and hundred blades them while they are rooted.
Sword/sword works best as a condition weapon set though for warrior and can be quite nasty with the right setup.
I’ve done sword/sword on mesmer some too, and it seems quite viable, though I haven’t played much of it. I think it comes down to personal preference in the end. I’d play what you find more enjoyable.
I tried something similar before, but in spvp because runes of perplexity are broken. They are simply way too good. I used spiked armor though, to make up the damage loss. Basically, the build just punishes people for spamming attacks.
I have some questions for all you guys.
First let me say that I have been playing this game since beta, I am an avid WvW player, and have 6 out of 8 lvl 80s. My main is a guardian, but I also play necro, mesmer, warrior, theif and ele. My engi is 50 something, and I will eventually have a ranger too.
My experiences are as follows:
Condis vs my guard – negligible – amount of cleansing I put out is rediculous, and of course I run melandru with -40% food.
Condis vs my War – beyond negligible – this character is for all intents and purposses completely immune to chills, cripples, immobilize, and in addition converts other condis to boons and helps cleanse entire team.
Condis vs my necro – negligible – I use a power hybrid with as much cleansing as I can have and large healthpool. In a small engagement and prolonged fight, a condi stacker will be lucky to get my health to 50% before I down him/her.
Condis vs my mesmer – more effective – however this is in large part due to my personal build choice and if I get the jump on anyone, being condi stacker or not, its over for them period. If they get the jump on me, well, the better players will down me or make me run away due my poor cleansing.
Condis vs my ele – negligible – this is so bad that its down right funny, as my ele is a condi / support build. And I find it funny that I can down condi stackers with my condis.
Condis vs my thief – effective – however, again due to my personal build choices I play it glass, I kill quick or die quick, either way, this is due to my personal choice, not lack of ingame tools or build choices.So what do you guys all do to die to condis so much ? I do not understand this, please help me understand. Do you intentionally build toons to be downed by condis to come here and make these complaint posts ? Do you not inturrapt ? Do you just stand there and let them kill you thinking you are in PvE on one of those outdoors boss fights where all you do is spam weapon skill 1 ?
On the 6 of my 80s I have multitudes of ways to deal with condis, granted some are easier then others, but are nonetheless available and I have played long enough to try them out and they are effective.
So if I can make effective anti-condi builds, why cant you ? I don’t get it.
Exactly. People just want to use their personal build without having to worry about cleansing. When in reality, most professions can shrug off conditions very easily with the right spec.
This is the reason I hardly ever duel. I hate listening to trash talkers or people that make excuses/whine. Or people that just use cookie cutter specs. If you are gonna duel, you should be trying out your own builds. But, to each their own I guess.
They should make a map with a pit full of evil bunnies that gnaw on you when you fall in it. I suppose they could make a way to get out to make it fair. =p
I understand these posts less and less. I go into solo queue and I see…
Necromancer: Condi or MM based, MM being more popular (and working off Power).
Warrior: Condi or Power based, Power being more popular.
Thief: Power mostly.
Elementalist: Power.
Guardian: Power.
Ranger: Condi mostly.
Engineer: Condi mostly.
Mesmer: Power or Condi based, Condi being more popular.Next time I’m on I’m going to start taking a census. Out of the eight classes, I see five of them have power builds most represented. If you delete Elementalist from the list Power still serves the majority in solo queue.
In casted tournaments I see 1 support, 1-2 condi classes max, and the other 2-3 power based running Soldier or Berserker.
This. I don’t really understand why people say it’s a condition meta, even if it’s strong on one or two classes, I see the majority of a team in a power based build usually.
The problem is that everyone has their own personal code of conduct when it comes to pvp. Some will find things acceptable and within bounds, while a group of others will not. It all comes down to ones’ opinion. I have no problem with people using regular mechanics or terrain to one’s advantage as that is fair game. I do not even care when people use cheap class specs or the like, I just refuse to use them myself nor do I complain about them. I find it more fun to actively play and counter people and challenge myself to do better and use skill. I guess it’s my own sense of pride. I will however, still tactically use terrain or knockbacks/pulls in skyhammer, because it is a part of the map and intended, whether it’s cheap or not. I will run around pillars to line of sight people and heal, because that is called tactics. I will also feign running away to wait for cooldowns, etc. and then turn around and unload on you because that is the smart thing to do. Unless it’s a set duel with specific rules, then I see no problem in these things.
I find things like spawn camping (not that it really happens in this game) and the like deplorable though, as well as outright cheating and glitching mechanics that weren’t intended. Everyone is here to play/fight/test each other and these things are counter productive to promoting more players or community.
I am within the mind of “Do what it takes to win, but within reason”.
Pick a map and/or area in a zone that no one really goes to. Complete every heart hub that requires completion by killing stuff or round up groups of mobs as you explore points in the zone and whack away at them.
I run a dagger/dagger (or pistol) build without full power traits and can still hit those numbers. Well, I sometimes slot mug in the power line, but other than that I usually avoid the tree for WvW. With the correct gear and food, and/or might stacks, guard buffs etc. it’s not all that hard to reach those numbers on backstab. Power comes from those things a majority of the time, the trait lines are just a bonus.
If you really want to see some builds and such, I suggest checking in the Thief profession forums.
What Nevir said above. Or maybe you were blinded? Although, I don’t think that would pop the immune message and would register as a miss. Then you have the shield blocks, but they usually register as a block and not immune. Same thing for dodges.
You are just redefining the “high damage bunker builds” as “balanced builds”.
So what is a bunker in your eyes? Ive been called high dmg bunker on my 30-10-0-20-10 engineer (without prot injection or cleansing formula). Do you you agree with that statement?
So basicly anything that has some tools to survive or isnt 100% glasscanon is a bunker?
No need to over exaggerate. BTW in my last post I did point out what a bunker is. I think many need reminding but it really isn’t all that complex. Any build that can hold and maintain a point for an extended duration in a 1 v x situation can be considered a bunker.
The build you describe (I do not know your traits but you can build a bunker from those points) may not seem it but with perma vigor, swiftness, likely back pack regenerator (protection injection or self regulating defenses could go here as well), reduced CD on pistol for elixir gun traits, bombs, tool kit, and nades or elixir gun you could possibly bunker well with that build. Proper use of healing turret plus your water fields and if you use elixir gun you have a stun break and an extra blast as well. While some may not consider it a bunker build played correctly you have enough CC, healing, AoE and blinds to bunker as long as you like.
That build is not a bunker, no matter how you try and spin it. It’s a balanced build. The only defensive traits are 20 deep. It does good damage, but not great. It has decent defense, but not great. That build is all about knowing when to use the right thing at the right time. It’s actually how most classes should be in my opinion. It doesn’t have instant death burst damage, nor stupid amounts of passive survivability, it’s all active and dependent on the individual playing. It promotes skillful play.
As someone who plays both classes, you most certainly should not be complaining in this case.
Pure shortbow thieves are very rare. Shortbow is usually used to traverse around, start an engagement from range, test opponents weakness before switching to daggers to burst or skirting a big zerg fight where going into melee will end in death.
If a thief is kiting you with shortbow in a 1v1, be aware of your health. They will likely switch to burst you at 60% or less health and you can counter this with numerous methods as mentioned already. Do not waste all your defensive methods while they have a bow out.
Well, I was going to say the 30/10/0/20/10 build with grenades works well for both, but the optimum gear setup will always be zerker regardless of spec for pve dungeons/zerg boss fights. Honestly, outside of min/max speed groups, it will not matter that much though. I pretty much just wear my rabid/dire condition gear for the most part anyway for general stuff. I only switch when really needed and that build can easily use either type of gear with a few trait tweaks.
Both of those classes will almost always get away if they really want to and they are competent. You can’t really do much about that.
Surviving their burst can be done with protection boon traits, dodging at the correct time and shield blocks or CC at the proper moment. Keep in mind, you can still hit these classes while they are stealthed, so AoE skills will still ruin their day. You just have to think like a thief does.
Rank means very little other than time spent. Sure, a rank 20 has a better feel for the game and maps, but that doesn’t mean they play well or hold points, aim for objectives, etc. Granted, a new to the game, rank 1, isn’t going to do much in a tournament. Sometimes, they aren’t even aware hotjoin games exist and this needs to be rectified.