Guild Wars 2

Daharahj.1325:

The main problem thieves have is Cloak and Dagger, whoever came up with that skill and endless traits to mitigate iniciative costs needs to get fired.

Cloak and Dagger is fine. I hate to say it, but learn to play, seriously. It’s melee range, has a cast time, and it’s expensive and takes initiative even if it misses. Without steal or another gap closer, it’s extremely easy to avoid it if you are paying attention.

Moxrox.2496:

Once I played an Elementalist tank with 2200 toughness and got hit with

9k by BLADETRAIL (these are two hits in one animation wiht 900 range)

As a tank !

That’s because it’s bugged/was bugged.

Yeah, I think Norn/Charr thieves are pretty rare because they are large and bulky, not exactly the spitting image of what most think of for a thief class.

Yeah, I stopped playing my thief as much because they are everywhere. Now, when I play my engineer or necro, I’m like the only one on the team most of the time.

While I agree that the insta-gib combo still needs some work, the fact that you got hit for 12k plus with backstab after the nerf to the signet tells me you are running 0 toughness. If you are having problems with thieves, look into defensive traits. You can still make a dps build with a defensive trait or two. I had to start doing this on my engineer and I can still crit for 7k or more in a single hit on squishy players and I have 25k health and protection up whenever I’m crit. I also have an auto potion at 20% health that makes me evade all attacks. When you are having trouble with something, start playing around with different options, you do not have to have pure offense all the time.

I don’t even really have trouble on my necro either, unless I’m caught completely unaware without any life force or cooldowns. I actually use the portal wurm pet, unlike many necros I see and port my self out of harms way at the first sign of a spike hit. I think a lot of people just do the “cookie cutter” specs, and expect to win and not change anything.

I have a thief as well, and maybe that’s why I know how to counter them easier, but they aren’t that difficult to counter if you build right. The damage was absurd before the signet change and might be still but it’s at least spread out some; now it’s a bit easier to counter and you have more time to pop a defensive. Thief damage is high because they lack the options some other classes have. You have to build to counter them if you are having problems, that’s how this game and system works.

Haste is terrible in a backstab build. Your combo should be hitting someone in the span of 2 seconds already, and half the time without them knowing.

I’ve tried tons of power/crit builds, and there is no way you are getting 6k plus in a defensive setup.

Only condition damage specific gear increases condition damage. Well, and the Might buff. Regular damage modifiers only benefit the direct damage you are doing.

You can easily make a build that focuses on it to hit around 3-4k and over 5k on certain enemies under 50% health. I don’t think it really needs any more damage.

Find a spot where you can chain events back to back and do hearts in the downtime, stock up on crafting/buy mats and knock them out when the going gets slow to boost you to the next level range.

Sword/pistol with signet of malice and the heal trait in acrobatics is pretty nice. Sure, the damage was nerfed some, but the thing about pistol whip is that it heals you for every hit with this setup and it evades attacks while you do your damage. It’s quite good for pve grinding, and you have black powder as well to fall back on for blinding. Toss in utilities of your choice and a shortbow to fall back on, and you’re good to roll.

If you are using P/P main, then unfortunately you need a weapon swap for your AoE. I’ve used both shortbow with the fire sigil and sword/pistol, which works okay but doesn’t hold a candle to the shortbow.

I’m using a power build myself while leveling my necro, and with the LF on crit trait and using dagger/warhorn, axe/focus I find it filling up incredibly fast. Staff is alright once you get the traits, but weapon swapping between axe 2 and dagger autoattack with locust swarm is quite fast.

Looks good Nihmindu, I use almost the exact same setup traits wise, except that I forgo Ankleshots for Critical Haste and took Executioner in the last slot.

My utility looks completely different though, as I was going for a pure ranged machine gun pistol build, with Sigil of Rage on weapon for quickness procs, quickness from the trait, and using Haste as one of my utilities for on demand burst.

My other utility slots are Signet of Agility and Roll for Initiative, because with Haste you need it to refill your endurance back afterwards. Roll for Initiative because it’s so very useful for this build for multiple reasons. One, initiative gain. Two, stun/movement break and evade all in one. Three, good for retreating and keeping distance.

For healing, I use Withdraw which I’ll explain in a moment, but I do change this up based on what I’m doing. In heavy condition situations I use the stealth heal and for pve stuff I sometimes change out the trait Quick Recovery for Assassin’s Reward and use Signet of Malice for the constant heal procs. I typically also drop Haste for Infiltrator’s Signet when I do this too, for more initiative gain.

I use Shortbow with the aoe fire proc sigil for heavy aoe situations. The shortbow is also good for mobility and you can chain your leap back from it with Roll for Initiative and Withdraw for a pretty hefty backwards scooting retreat when you really need to get out of dodge.

Any of the elites can work as well I find, depending on situation or personal flavor.

Edit: If you find yourself really in need of snare, drop Haste for another utility or change weapon sigil to the chill on crit one, which is practically like having Ankle Shots on your weapon.

Sounds like thief backstab build with the Assassin’s Signet. It makes a normal backstab do 150% more damage and adds might stacks on top of that for a one hit wonder build. You have to be very quick to survive the initial burst, as the good ones will use cloak and dagger, steal with damage trait to gap close, those two abilities do about 3-5k damage each, pop the signet and then hit you for 10k+ before you even realize that they are attacking you. The signet adds like 3k to 5k more damage alone and is the ultimate culprit. Normally, backstab does good damage, but can be countered.

Necro’s are the complete opposite I’d say, with the proper build.

Try something like this for ranged nukes if you don’t want to mess with wells.

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/necromancer#5|0|1201|1197|4324|4172|1205|30|1255|2333|2242|0|0|0|0|10|1569|0|0|0|0|0|0|30|1257|2401|2241|0|0|0|28028|28016|53501|53501|53501|53501|53501|25790|21080|0|0|0|0|

Edit: You could also dump the Death Magic points for 10 in Curses for a little more crit and life force gain on crit, if you feel comfortable with the smaller marks. Weapon swap is also up to you, but axe/focus is probably the best for pure ranged damage. I would probably use dagger/warhorn though, for close targets and kiting/swiftness/CC options.

I completely agree with the original poster. The root of the problem is the Assassin’s Signet increased damage with might stacks on top boosting it to ridiculous damage levels. I really hope they don’t give backstab the pistol whip treatment and completely miss the real issue, as I feel it’s fine on any other spec without that setup.

I’ve been toying around with an Elixir Gun build lately myself, and so far I’ve got:

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/engineer#10|10|2729|4700|2454|6383|4065|0|0|0|0|20|1419|1881|0|10|1013|0|0|30|1470|1473|1479|10|1883|0|0|0|0|0|28023|28025|49964|49964|49964|49964|49964|26064|48791|0|0|0|0|

This is a defensive support build with okay-ish condition damage. You have a great amount of toughness, self heals, tons of boons to toss around, and massive group condition removal. I chose pistol/pistol for the ability to stack burning and more aoe damage, along with my other conditions for a little more oomhf in that department. You can, however, go with a shield for even more defense. I am not set on runes and jewelry, you can toy with those. I was thinking about stacking boon duration as well with them, but being a support based build, I went with the ones that grants regen to your group whenever you heal and longer regen duration as a start.

For a bit more offensive but still support based build, you would drop the 10 points in Invention and stick them in Firearms up to the pistol shots pierce; or you could throw them in Explosives for the chance to burn on crit. You could also drop the offhand pistol for shield with this choice, as you now have another way to apply burns. Also, you could drop Potent Elixirs for Deadly Mixture in Alchemy.

And if you don’t care all that much about support, you could do all that and change the jewels and runes to offensive completely, but this would also reduce your own regen boon; and one of the great things about this build is stacking regeneration boon on top of your kit regeneration with a good amount of + healing power.

I find it pretty funny that a thief would complain about this, honestly, and I play one. The only area where retaliation becomes a real problem is in WvWvW, where it is spammed endlessly on everyone in large groups.

I refuse to use grenades until I have the option to not spam my basic attack repeatedly. It gets a bit tiresome and just feels a bit tedious outside of underwater. I really want to love grenades, but I just can’t get past the everyday use and abuse. (of my 1 key) Instead, I use a rifle crit/power build with static discharge burst and it does quite fine.

Well, it is designed mainly for the large scale fights, but that doesn’t mean it has no options for doing the smaller scale stuff. If you are solo, you are best setting up shop in a location like a puzzle area or terrain with easy escape options if you prefer to pick off stragglers of a larger force, as they are often too busy to chase after you if they are headed somewhere important. I did this quite a bit in Warhammer online solo, picking off reinforcements and people headed towards the main fight. Make sure you have a good hiding spot and/or high mobility options would be my main advice. It’s all about pouncing at the right time and being aware of your surroundings.

Also, many people are new to the game, and many people are just getting into the WvW stuff still, so it’s easy to find people roaming all over the map still for easy pickings and 1v1 or 1v2s, like people roaming around just to get achievements. Set up shop at one of those away from the larger battle if you are having difficulties. It is all about patience and opportunity when solo.

Personally, I find the constant threat of danger and being overwhelmed at any time exciting, as it gives another layer to the game. You have to play smart and carefully. You are like the operative behind enemy lines or an outlaw on the run.

Jedbacca.6297:

So that this topic doesn’t go astray, I was not implying that any servers are teaming, I was stating that it is logical in instances to have a non-pacted cease fire because it is strategically sound at those opportune moments.

Yes, I agree completely. It will happen to everyone at some point. That was what I was hinting at in my post. I was just just saying how silly it is that everyone accuses the other two, when it happens to all of us at some point.

Well, I was on for a couple hours last night on JQ Borderlands, and JQ was trying to tackle HoD the entire time by the camp on the west part of the map; and SBI was slowly creeping up JQ’s opposite side, instead of trying to pin HoD in the middle from what I noticed. I don’t blame them though, and I certainly don’t think any alliances are going. I think all three servers are making a go at it and I’ve seen all three servers accuse the other two of teaming up at some point.

I’m not sure why, but every time I get a bag of loot and get badges, I think of this song.

Yeah, that was more so for spvp setup. You are probably better off with something else for WvW, but don’t underestimate the power of keeping someone from running out of range or chasing people down, the one second stun can easily make a player get mobbed by your group.

lighterdark.5307:

imo we need another weapons… like an axe. Anet added to many abilities in to 1 kit so we have like cond dmg, straight dmg, debuffs… but we have noo focus on one type of damage.

Maces/blackjacks/saps imo if weapons are added, as a support/CC heavy option. Our damage options are already very good.

lighterdark.5307:

Cyricus.2981:

I call this my Mobile Machine Gun pistol build:

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/thief#10|10|2632|4004|3999|2786|11435|0|0|0|0|30|1719|1193|1728|0|0|0|0|25|2353|1168|0|15|782|0|0|0|0|3|28035|28028|49962|49962|49962|49962|49962|25790|21080|21080|21080|21080|21080|

This spec can easily be customized or tweaked in different directions depending on what you want. Want more raw power, and aoe weakness on your bow? Trade out the 15 in Trickery. It’s easy to change your heal or utilities to tailor against opponents as well or for personal preference. It is weakest against conditions, but that is easily fixed swapping a few things as well. You can also tailor this into a vampiric build with Signet of Malice and Assassin’s Reward, making your unloads heal for 1k+ each time you use them.

Ah, forgot to mention, I run shortbow with the flame AoE proc as my other weapon set for those AoE situations.

ty sir! I will try this out in WvW

No problem, let me know how it goes. I haven’t actually used it in WvW yet, just spvp. It seems like it would be viable though and it’s tons of fun with all the rapid fire pistols going off. For burst, you want to use Basilisk Venom + Haste + Unload spam.

You want the might stacking and the sigil that gives you condition damage when you kill a foe.

Daecollo.9578:

Vital Shot and Body Shot.

This is the main problem, Vital Shot seems to focus on “condition damage” while Body Shot seems to focus on vulnerability.

Body Shots Vulnerability is not enough, Body Shot deals almost no damage at all and almost does as much as Vital Shot, but the Bleed is better damage then 1 stack of vulnerability and Body Shot costs 3 initiative…

Something needs to be done, you can’t focus on both condition damage and vulnerability.

Instead of applying vulnerability, body shot should set the target on fire.

Unload should add 4 stacks of bleeding to the target and do less damage, but still hit 8 times.

Either this, or it needs to be changed to be heavy on vulnerability and focused on critical hitting.

Vulnerability is easy to stack and really adds up. I disagree about changing it, as it benefits both builds when correctly built and also helps everyone on your team do more damage against that target. It’s support based mainly, not for boosting your own damage so much as it is for others. Not everything is about self damage.

Also, unload is perfectly fine. It doesn’t need to do anything differently imo. It isn’t meant for condition builds, just like death blossom isn’t used in a burst dagger/dagger build really. If you want a condition based pistol build, you are better off with a dagger offhand anyways for spending your initiative on CnD and sneak attacking those bleed stacks up.

I call this my Mobile Machine Gun pistol build:

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/thief#10|10|2632|4004|3999|2786|11435|0|0|0|0|30|1719|1193|1728|0|0|0|0|25|2353|1168|0|15|782|0|0|0|0|3|28035|28028|49962|49962|49962|49962|49962|25790|21080|21080|21080|21080|21080|

This spec can easily be customized or tweaked in different directions depending on what you want. Want more raw power, and aoe weakness on your bow? Trade out the 15 in Trickery. It’s easy to change your heal or utilities to tailor against opponents as well or for personal preference. It is weakest against conditions, but that is easily fixed swapping a few things as well. You can also tailor this into a vampiric build with Signet of Malice and Assassin’s Reward, making your unloads heal for 1k+ each time you use them.

Ah, forgot to mention, I run shortbow with the flame AoE proc as my other weapon set for those AoE situations.

Adaneshade.2409:

Condition builds are very viable for the thief, mainly due to our resource system there is no CD. All purges, however, do have a long CD. This enables us to “feint” a small stack let them purge, then apply the main stack. Necros, guardians, and warriors alike all eventually succumb to the bleed.

The key, however, is to never allow yourself to be open to attack, don’t just stand in melee range letting them beat on you. LDB a couple of times and be rolling as soon as your feet hit the ground.

Below is the build I’ve been running (quite successfully I might add)

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#Mckzzc0zmbavombavmp9MfxokMVkq

I use superior sigils of earth on both daggers for the added bleed stacks and use the following rune set (the extra dodge rolling really helps)

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Adventure

Those sigils do not stack, when one triggers, the other goes on cooldown the same. In fact, any proc sigil does this and shares a cooldown, so it is wasted to put more than one proc sigil on your weapons. It would be more beneficial to get the sigil that stacks condition damage on kill.

Conditions are perfectly viable in WvW. Everyone might have condition removals, but they have cooldowns, and with so many people spamming conditions around, you are going to get some to stick and kill people if they are strong enough. If you are running a pure condition build, chances are you can apply conditions faster then they can be removed most of the time, unless your opponent went all out to counter that kind of build. Burst damage might do more upfront damage, but for those times where you and your opponents are doing the los dance on walls, around choke points, you or them are running away, etc; the condition spec shines.

I completely agree with Vexus. If you want to use a shortbow, that should be the skeleton traits for it. To further it, I would go down the mobility route for traits, unless you are looking at a condition damage based build.

Depends on the build I’m running, or whom I’m facing. Lately, however, I’ve been toying around with a dual pistol machine gun haste build, and I have Withdraw as heal and Roll for Initiative as one of my utilities. Black Powder for when I’m stuck in place as a last resort. Sometimes I’ll change out my heal though, if there is heavy condition damage.

nekura.3510:

I played a solo stealther in DAoC for ten years. For as much as I wanted the solo mini-game to make a come back in GW2 the downed state totally ruins it.

Not really, you just have to manipulate your opponents better. It can be done.

Melphina.9035:

For some reason it reminded me of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhNFrPtbKGc

Hahaha, this made me laugh. Good one.

As for the original video, not bad. I found it pretty entertaining and the Devil May Cry theme interesting.

I don’t claim to be great or a fountain of knowledge, but a few basics I’ve picked up are:

You can precast things such as Caltrops and Cloak and Dagger at range, hit Steal, and land the effect at your target with the right timing.

Shadow trap is great for escaping with good use. Place it when you are being chased, and if triggered you will stealth and be ported to your target, you can now run in the opposite direction or hide somewhere they will never expect. If you are in a situation when they don’t expect you to attack, they will never even think about you porting over to them and keep going in their general direction thinking you just went into stealth in front of them.

You can cover a very large gap through enemies with multiple shadowsteps + steal to traverse to safety or cover ground through zergs/mobs quickly. That is, if you are good at targeting and fast enough. It’s even better with stealth on steal and increased range on steal.

Use endurance signet for general getting around if you have the swiftness on dodge trait for more uptime. Paired with a shortbow and Signet of Shadows, you will have great speed for getting around. I’m sure this one is pretty common knowledge.

Blind on Stealth trait is amazing for many things, but I’ll give you a few. If you are immobilized and have no way to dodge out/break it; you can still stealth, blind will make any big attacks about to hit you whiff. It is great for countering burst glass cannon builds. It is also just generally good for countering everyone that spams attacks when you disappear. It also makes stomping/getting stomped easier/harder if you use the stealth first tactic.

Pve tips! Okay, everyone knows to spam Death Blossom to stack bleeds, but if you use Roll for Initiative after the first wave, start casting Caltrops, hit steal with the trait to recover initiative, you will land at them with cripple, another bleed, and another round of Death Blossom loaded to be spammed again and you haven’t even had to dodge yet! This of course, is cooldown reliant and probably still general knowledge, but I threw it out there anyway.

It’s called giving us options, since all the typical mmo players like to run around complaining about lack of things to do. It’s for exploring/fun/taking a break from the more serious fighting and gives the world pvpers and pvers alike more content. But of course, there will always be complainers.

I’ve racked up some hardcore hours playing this game since release, probably more than a full time job a week, and I’ve yet to even explore half the game or more. It kind of puzzles me how fast people rushed and are out of content. I’m not hardcore in the sense of rushing, but exploring every zone, doing puzzles, achievements, pvp (and I’ve hardly scratched the surface of world pvp yet, mainly due to absurd queues), working on crafting as I level (I have all 8 professions/classes) and just socializing and helping the guild; and settling down on my main class.

I think this is the first mmo in a long while where I’ve been so sucked into doing everything possible and feel no need to rush to max level to enjoy anything. I usually could care less about exploring or pve so much and looking at every nook and cranny, but this game makes it worthwhile to me for some reason when I usually find that area lacking. Hell, my guild leader even teases me about doing pve for once.

Overall, I’m quite enjoying myself and never feel like I have enough time to play, despite my absurd amount of hours. I think it’s safe to say I’ve been hooked and I find the amount of stuff to do/explore in this game for just being released quite amazing. I’m not even saying this as a fanboy or with bias, but my experiences with other mmos.

metaphorm.6904:

Cyricus.2981:

Why is there a trait to make Steal apply stealth if one can simply CnD + Steal to get the same effect? Are we sure this is working as intended people?

Yes, this is working as intended. Not every Thief has an off-hand dagger equipped all the time you know. Nor does every Thief put 20 points in Shadow Arts and take Hidden Thief trait.

Why do you assume something is a bug just because its good strategy? Is it a bug that Warriors can hit someone with Hundred Blades while they’re knocked down from Bull Rush? According to your logic it must be. A clever combination of skills that produces a strong effect, clearly the developers never intended that!

I never stated it was a bug directly. I was just curious why they would add such a trait if it is intended. I don’t rightly know the reason, and I was trying to grasp for an answer such as int cost, etc. I even stated that I used this trick, but was wary to do so, because I can see the possibility of it not being in line, that is all. And Bull Rush + Hundred Blades isn’t the same thing at all, btw.

Why is there a trait to make Steal apply stealth if one can simply CnD + Steal to get the same effect? Are we sure this is working as intended people? I mean, when I look at that trait, it does to me. CnD has a cast time. If they wanted people to instant stealth on CnD + Steal, then why add the trait or cast time to CnD in the first place? Is it simply using int vs. not using any?

In any case, I’m wary to start relying on something like this. I already use this with casting Caltrops and Stealing right to mobs/players to slow them immediately myself, so I’m not exactly trying to get it fixed, but it does seem skeptical. The real problem, however, is just the stupid amount of burst that goes along with it.

Spam is dumb in any form regardless of class. They should make combo chains where abilities have added benefits if so and so move is used first or afterwards. This could also encourage more weapon swapping for a thief, which in the current state, is lacking. Or they should make each consecutive ability that is the same used after the first, do reduced damage; call it a Winded or Exhausted debuff that last for so and so seconds. A self regulating cooldown if you will, though still useful to use in certain situations. And maybe since the added penalty, we add a buff that does a little more damage the longer you go without using said ability. This could potentially lead to problems though, but hey, it’s an idea.

They are already working on adding autoattack to kit and yes, I agree, it gets tiresome hammering that same button like no tomorrow, heh.

Outside of going the 30 in your conditions line, it is best to build survivability with a conditions build in my experience. So I’d look into the toughness or healing route with your other trees. Save 10 points for burn on crit in the power tree. I also recommend P/S over P/P, as burn is easily applied with the trait on crit. Since you mentioned you do not like melee, I wouldn’t go with bombkit as an option; but grenade can stack some things pretty well if you can deal with the wonky targeting. It’s better for WvW.

Elixir gun can actually stack bleed better than a pistol on autoattack I think (of course, get used to spamming a button repeatedly until they fix autoattack on kits) and with better range with the right talents for single target and I believe has poison on one of it’s moves. It’s definately a good choice for a heal oriented condition build. Or you can just focus on your main weapon and run utilities or elixirs and play defensively.

As you can see, there are a few routes to go and try. Engineer has a lot of options. Hell, you could probably build glass cannon with crowd controls and try to keep them locked down while you melt them away. Well, at least for pug games, that could be fun. I actually do something similar with a power rifle/knockdown build that can be amusing when all your CC is up.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Cyricus.2981:

Each has it’s place. Healing turret is good for group support/bunkering down in a spot. Medkit is better for mobility and skirmishes where you need to constantly move around. And the elixir is good for an alchemy build, outside of that, the others are superior I think.

Sigh, people still don’t understand combofields.

Ok, Healing Turret does not compromise Mobillity. Why? Because Proper Healing Turret Usage is 6 —->F1. You drop Healing Turret. You Press F1 to Detonate Healing Turret (Combo Finisher: Blast). Since Healing Turret Creates a water field when dropped, you activate an AoE Combo Heal with blast which gives a significant hard heal (roughly 70% of your standard heal depending on your gear) to you and all nearby allies. So you effectively get 2 heals. With Proper Traits, you also get an AoE knockback from Detonate Healing Turret that is almost as strong as Big Ol’ bomb.

---

>You do not sacrifice Mobillity.<————
You Drop Turret, receive the standard heal effect, blow up turret, receive AoE effects (Healing and CC if traited). The whole process takes less than a second.

I agree, but you are sacrificing mobility in certain situations, hence why I said when you need to be mobile. I understand the turret is great in a lot of aspects, there is no need to convince me. But each one has their place with a correct build, just like I said and that’s all I meant.

Each has it’s place. Healing turret is good for group support/bunkering down in a spot. Medkit is better for mobility and skirmishes where you need to constantly move around. And the elixir is good for an alchemy build, outside of that, the others are superior I think.

Called in sick to work today, because on my day off I was too sick to actually play.

Why would a Norn Guardian not make any sense? A Guardian(paladin) is basically just a protector of the ideals and upholds the morals/traditions of a present set of culture/alliance. It could work with anything with the right story. Hell, it works rather well with the different spirits of the wild in any case.

I actually rerolled my Guardian too, from Asura to Norn. I couldn’t possibly see myself switching back and forth like you though, even though I’m pretty picky and an altoholic myself. I think you need to just bite the bullet and settle in to something no matter what starts to irritate you, or you’ll never make it out of the front gate, haha.

TheKow.7604:

I cant stand pets I love engineer so far and my only complaint is that we don’t have a melee weapon just wish we could us daggers or hammer.

We do, it’s called the toolkit. It uses a wrench to twhack things, but it is essentially like using a hammer. Bombs are also melee range, but they are pretty unique in feeling compared to any other weapon. I wouldn’t be against having a melee hammer, but the option to melee is there already if you want to.