Showing Posts For Ezekeel.2837:
1 2
According to your criteria not the necro since for survivability he relies heavily on Plague form elite skill with a 3 min CD. Out of Plague form the survivability depends mainly on Death Shroud which needs life force and you start with zero and life force generation as a bunker is kinda tricky (also due to bugs).
it’s 4k per tick lol so total it’s over 10k
my dagger 1# is around 1500 – 3000
Ds 1# is around the same
Ds 4# is around 2000 – 4000 per tickwith Hp pool this class has + another Hp bar from Ds
i usually take any class down before they take me
So you have leveled three different classes to 80 and still not figured out that the damage number you see for channeled skills that keeps getting larger and larger with each tick is NOT the damage of that tick but the total damage done with that skill?
And I always wondered why the green numbers for the life steal traits on hit/crit appeared above the heads of my enemies. Did anyone test dagger #2 yet? It would be great of someone could systematically test all the different life steal skills and traits the necro and combinations of those and add the bugs to the long list. At least this explains why a blood magic build always felt so underwhelming.
As for class balance and skills, other teams not directly working on the pvp features are working on that stuff and will give updates once they have a clear plan in place. What we don’t want to do is post and say, “We’re doing x and this is how it’s going to work!” and then come back say, “no we lied we are actually doing Y”. We have a strict policy of talking about features and changes once they are far enough along we feel comfortable they are going to work, so we’re actually always delivering on our promises.
I can understand your point that you do not want to make empty promises. However when it comes to balancing professions and addressing their shortcomings in PvP I am not convinced that working behind close doors without any communication with the players will lead to optimal results. To be clear, I have faith the people working on the professions and balancing are competent, however I also feel that communication with the players over the corresponding class forums could be very helpful in understanding where the perceived shortcoming of a certain class are. There is no need to make any promises, but I think it can also be very helpful sometimes for your balancing team to just go to the class forums and ask ‘Where do you see the shortcomings of your class?’ and if some changes are planned ask ‘How would you feel about when we change X? Would that be helpful in solving the Y problem?’. After all, spending hundreds of hours playing a certain class kinda makes you an expert on that topic and I can only urge you and your team to draw from that experience.
@sco
So when you said that you are ‘absolutely amazed at how many ways the skills a Necromancers have access to can interact with each other’ followed by ‘some examples of what I mean’ and then give these great combos like ‘gap closer ? attack in melee’ or ‘stack two AOEs for more AOE damage’ you did not actually mean that you were amazed?
And I never said the dark/poison combo fields are ‘useless’. Just less useful than the etheral/water/smoke fields and thus that it is not useful to overwrite these with your fields.
Also the necro does not have ‘numerous blast finishers’, but three. Only one on a weapon which is also the only one which is reliable and not cumbersome to use. The other two are when exploding the bone minions (pretty hard to ‘aim’ in a team fight against several enemies since the minion AI sucks) and one with the flesh worm return which requires setup and is just too situational and cumbersome. Professions like warrior (10), engi (13) and ele (11) have numerous blast finishers.
It is a simple fact that the necro has the least number of finishers. Necros have no leap and only one underwater whirl finisher.
Your main point ‘This class has numerous ways in which skills can interact with each other (not just combo fields) that allow for a skilled player to greatly increase his effectiveness.’ is valid and it did not dispute it since it is such a generic claim which is true for all professions – that is simply how the game is designed. I merely pointed that out and the fact that other classes are doing it better.
You must have exclusively played a one-button thief before, if such sophisticated combos like ‘gap closer → attack in melee’ or ‘stack two AOEs for more AOE damage’ are amazing to you.
The combo fields the necro can provide are dark, poison and one light field and they overwrite the more useful etheral/water/smoke fields of your teammates. Also the necro has the least number of combo finishers among all professions. So if you are into such things you probably would be more effective with a mesmer or ele.
A blind on autoattack would be too strong. Against an enemy with slow attack speed like a hammer or mace warrior you could probably just stand there autoattacking him with him not being able to hit back. I also do not think cleave for #1 would solve the problem of #1 autoattack having a bad risk-reward ratio against other melee.
I already use Spectral Armor with decreased CD, Last Gasp and runes with +20% protection duration and another free 4secs protection every 30secs, but stepping into melee range with other melees still turns out bad for me most of the time. Other classes with melee weapons simply have too many utilities on the melee weapons to cc you or avoid your attacks. On the other hand for necro MH dagger #2 does nothing to support you in melee combat while the immobilize on #3 also does not help when attacking other melees.
The only real chance I can see for necro melee is that he gets some way for temporarily disabling other melees for a quick strike and then quick retreat. And a quick gap closer combined with a blind (if done right) seems viable. DS #2 and Spectral Grasp are not really suited for that due to the slow projectile speed + 0.75 secs cast time – if I use these on enemies < 600 range that are not running away it is faster to simply run. Also neither of them are a leap finisher.
In my opinion our MH dagger needs improvement which in one strike would solve several shortcomings of the necro class and make it more fun to play.
I would suggest the following adjustments:
Dagger #1 Necrotic Stab: Leach endurance with a successful strike.
Reason: Dagger MH essentially is a melee weapon and the necro lacks survivability in melee range compared to the other melee classes. So if you want to use the #1 autoattack against other melees you have to go in, do some damage and get out real quick. The necro however lacks the ability to retreat from melee combat. With more endurance (and less on my enemy) it would be easier to get out, but still need some skill.
Dagger #3 Dark Pact: Reduce cast time to 0.5 secs. Reduce CD to 20 secs. Add a chain skill which at successful hit gives you the ability to pull yourself to the target, causes a little damage and acts as a leap finisher.
Reason: Bring it more in line with http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magnetic_Grasp. The CD reduction of 0.5 secs does not sound like much, but it makes a huge difference when some melee is whacking you and simply jumping around like crazy (not dodging) when lag comes into play. Also the CD reduction of 5 secs seems justified considering Magnetic Grasp only has 12 secs CD for a 2 sec immobilize. The chain skill leap would give the necro a 600 range gap closer (which all melee weapons have in some form) as an alternative to DS #2 and it would add additional complexity to the necro playstyle since we have no other chain skills (except autoattacks) and the player would need to make the decision whether to use the gap closer for the damage/finisher or better not (risk-reward). Also it would give the necro a leap finisher which could be used with our dark/poison fields.
I think these two changes are necessary to make the MH dagger necro viable against other melee classes. The current situation is that almost all dps is packed into the #1 autoattack which however we cannot use against other melees since necro lacks the tools to go toe to toe with them. With the above changes some fast paced melee guerilla style of play would be possible. For example: Put down a well, immobilize them in the well, leap to them causing blindness, get off a round of autoattacks and then dodge away.
Im not saying we have enough finishes (we dont) but the combos are meant as a team mechanic were teams work together.
The question is since necros have a dominance in “dark” fields (only a thief has 1 shadow refuge on 60second cooldown) Is the dark field a useful tool in team pvp?
how do people rate blind/life leach over say the water field that give different types of heal depending on finisher?
Dark and poison combo fields are pretty weak. Since only blast and leap finishers are reliable for any tactic (projectile finisher triggers only with 20% chance) just take a look at the first two columns of http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Combo. In my opinion etheral (chaos armor) and water (healing) and smoke (stealth) are the top tier of effects. On the other hand dark field with blind and poison field with weakness are the weakest effects – blind only works for one strike and the effect of weakness on condition and damage burst builds (which all have high crit) is only very small. Since finishers can only interact with one combo field and assume it always works with the field applied last, I always feel bad when putting down a well when a mesmer in my team has cast some etheral field.
You can reach high scores in 8vs8 sPvP pretty easily as a necro. Just spec towards maximum survivability and run with the main zerg. You will tag all enemies with your aoe no matter how little damage you do and die as the last one in your group. 8vs8 is more about surviving the myriads of face-roll instagib thiefs and annoying 100b warriors than actual competitive PvP.
Please post a video showing you with a power/crit necro against a competent team in tPvP.
I also thought about that, but then I realized this probably is not a very realistic wish. Dota 2 is made by Valve who are known for their polished high quality products while GW2 is made by ANet and well… they not even manage to get their bugs fixed in a reasonable time frame…
How do you know they are working hard to fix the bugs? You don’t work there, you don’t know what it’s like. All I know as a fact is that ANet made the decision to knowingly sell a bugged game and now they take they sweet time in fixing it – at the current rate the necro will have all its bugs fixed in maybe half a year or so. Instead they seem to be very eager to implement new features which all have it in common that they are paid and generate additional income. If you are really that naive and not realize the pattern I cannot help any further.
paid tournaments = sell more gems in the cash shop
paid arena servers = sell more gems in the cash shop
paid costumes for halloween and other garbage = sell more gems in the cash shop
I hope you notice the pattern. ANet does not care about customer satisfaction. Not even sure if the ANet team still is in charge of their own game or if NCSoft is making the decisions.
going to say this as nicely as i can….i can 1v1 anything but a mesmer its a l2p issue or if your in wvw your probly not lvl 80 go scepter/dagger staff conditions build problem solved
Not everybody like running around like a headless chicken and spamming ground template spells the entire fight. I tried condimancer for a while and came to the conclusion that it does not take much more skills than the popular faceroll classes thief/mesmer/guardian. Generally I figured that a balanced build is the hardest thing to play in GW2 (no matter the class). Most of these burst and bunker builds are boring easy-play builds not worth my time.
placing your putrid mark on yourself would have given your teammates the chance to rezz you. (especially since there are 2 engis…)
I guess you mean ’Reaper’s Mark’ which was still on 3sec CD (estimated) when he was going down.
used stability to stomp him.
Except that the only stability necro can get is 3sec when entering DS, stomping takes 4sec and any experienced player waits with the interrupt until the last second.
Next time before you try to give tips maybe actually play the class for a while.
Watch vid, notice rank, ignore.
L2P. That is really all I have to say.
The level of intelligence you just expressed with this comment kinda fits nicely with the fact that you play a mesmer AND thief.
Glad they fixed the endless loading bug in PvP.
I guess the next bug/balance patch will be released Sunday. Let us hope this time they actually fix bugs without breaking other things or nerfing some random necro abilities.
I agree with guidance counselor Blueprint. Yesterday we got a call from Jon’s mother and she made us aware that her son in the last six weeks was target of several bullying attacks perpetrated by people here in the necro forum. According to Jon’s mother her son regularly comes home in tears. Currently that poor little guy is to scared to even open up the necro class forum. This has to stop immediately! Nobody wants the necro forum to turn into a place ruled by fear.
I am sorry, but a necro killing you in 3secs with condition damage is impossible when the time it takes to stack conditions with staff/scepter/OH dagger + maybe some utility skills already is longer than that.
So what skills does this necro use that you claim kills you in 3secs. Does he use wells or marks? What kind of weapons does he use? What were the skills that caused the most damage according to the damage statistic?
“I play as Engineer Point Defender, and you know how many Toughness i have? 2,2k
Want to know how many seconds i need to DIE against Thief/Mesmer/Necromancer ?
ONLY 3 SECONDS”
You mean a thief + mesmer + necro, right? Otherwise I am confused since I am pretty sure it is not even mathematically possible to do that kind of damage in 3sec on a necro even in the most optimum case of you just standing there and doing nothing.
I never said you cannot win as a necro against a thief. I was just pointing out the holes in your tactic since it sounded that you believed you had found some foolproof way.
Also, just for your information, I do not play a thief, but a power/crit necro with dagger/focus/staff. And I already tried all these little tricks and I can just tell you that sooner or later you will meet a good thief which will look through your tactic and do the right thing to counter it. Happened to me and will probably happen to you. 95% of all thieves in game are scrubs and you can beat them, however when two good players are meeting the thief definitely has the better cards against necro.
“Extremely good players make average players look horrible. You’d need to see him play more than one match against more than elite opponents to see how good a player he is.”
I agree that one needs more than this short snippet to judge his skill in playing the necro. He probably was distracted by something otherwise his performance really would be too laughable.
On the other hand your argument of facing a skilled warrior really does not excuse how he played. Nothing any warrior can do – no matter how skilled – will prevent a necro from using DS #3 when jumped to get some breathing room. The way JP used DS was exactly the way I see newbie necros using DS who still do not grasp the concept.
Yeah, just like any thief will just stand there for 30 sec and wait instead of just moving out of LoS or range.
Marks trigger as soon as you cross the line around them, so triggering them without getting hit by using dodge is trivial. I do it all the time with necro marks and engi mines. You are right that I never practised it with a friend since I did need to because it is so laughably easy to do.
Play your necro for a while and try your great tactics against people that know what they are doing in some tPvP games and you probably will change your mind.
This video is hilarious.
Jon Peters plays the necro like a complete newbie – like he never ever touched this class before. I really hope he was drunk or has some other excuse.
“I r necromansir!”
Sure you are…
“that mark stays on the ground for 40 seconds ish, and has a 40 second cooldown”
Except that marks stay on the ground for 30 seconds (or until recast) and since the skill has a 40s CD (32s traited) that leaves the thief with a 10s (2s) attack window.
“I hope you realize my marks like I said, are unblockable, by ANYTHING, it will cause fear on you.”
Except that dodge != block and if the thief just dodge rolls into the mark he will trigger, but evade it.
Throwing more developers at a project doesn’t mean development time will necessarily go down.
That is like saying dancing across the highway with your eyes closed does not necessarily get you killed. It is by no means a law of nature. But the chances are pretty good as real life has shown. And finding some corner case with a thousand programmers which is not comparable to this situation does not change that fact that by hiring more programmer at least the bug fixing would progress at a faster rate.
“They gotta squish bugs first with the content we already have…and balance stuff.”
Agreed.
Problem is that also does not happen in a timely fashion. If they continue to fix bugs at the current rate it will take half a year until they are finished with this first step. And – I am tired of reiterating this – a large number of the current bugs were already known to ANet since the BWEs.
Where was their ‘when it is finished’ attitude back then? To put it blunt, ANet sold a software product with known bugs and now they ask for patience from the customer when it comes to fixing these bugs. And instead of putting all effort into fixing these shortcoming of a product they already were paid for, they decide to put their manpower into implementing new paid features that brings new cash.
I really do not mind paying a monthly fee for a game if I see that the money is used to hire people to fix and improve things. Maybe they should implement a way to donate gems, so poor ANet can actually hire some programmers to do the work the designers are promising.
So if I want to make some duels with a friend I need to rent an arena server?
Hmm. With this change the +50% more damage while downed might actually be useful for my crit/power necro. That is probably the best damage you will ever do on a necro.
If they continue fixing the necro bugs at this pace, I guess I can uninstall the game and try again a year later.
The necro profession has sooooooo much room for improvement, but they are not even able to perform the most basic task of fixing bugs that are known for over month in a timely fashion.
Really disappointing.
In my experience the damage output is okayish IF you can use your dagger autoattack. Problem is you cannot really risk to use it against other melees since their attacks hit you back much harder. If you take a look at the melee skills that other classes have on their melee weapons (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sword#Mesmer, http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sword#Ranger) and combine that with the necro’s lack of escape ability you will understand why the necro is simply ill-equipped to go toe to toe with other melees or even ranged classes using melee weapons.
+1 Parakeet
Im sure I could, but then Id have to fight my own build, too selfish for that. Not going to ruin my fun killing everyone. Last game went 32-0 kills. So fun.
Obvious troll is obvious.
Today I solo’d the Blue Lord all while tanking two thieves, giving Svanir a wedgie and destroying the enemy trebuchet.
(edited by Ezekeel.2837)
Yeah and that super smart defense with the well of darkness/fear mark works all the time, because all thieves are morons that step into the red circle instead of just… I dunno… doing some super advanced stuff like pulling back and then coming back 10 seconds later when the well/mark are gone and both skills are on CD.
Yeah, exactly these comments I was talking about.
How about instead of your generic l2p comments which are of no use to anyone, you try to post something helpful like a build or a video which shows how you tackle the problems mentioned in this thread.
The dagger combo is actually very strong, you guys need to learn how to trait and spec yourselves properly. You should also learn how to use Death Shroud correctly. If you aren’t top score every game with daggers, reroll.
I wish at least here in the necro forum the morons would stop posting their generic l2p comments devoid of any substance.
Works as intended. A portal travel would break jumping puzzles.
What about Mesmer’s ‘Blink’ then?
I got a general problem in using dagger #1 against any class that also has melee attacks. One reason is these other classes not only have a melee autoattack but the other skills #2-#5 are also often melee range and these hit hard and sometimes knock you down or stun/immobilize you. When fighting a melee class you try to stay out of melee range and kite them, however #1 forces you to step into melee range and once you do that they unload their powerful #2-#5 skills and do much more damage to you than you can do to them with your #1 autoattack. And since the necro also has the lowest armor and no real escape ability, stepping into melee range against other melees for some #1 autoattacks is not worth the risk in my experience. It works great against classes that have no melee attacks or against players that only have ranged weapons equipped, however even rangers or mesmers with sword outdamage the necro in melee.
The necro can already absorb a good amount of damage if you use DS properly. So I do not think we need a defensive boost since that would make him unkillable in 1vs1 even with a glass-cannon build.
What the necro needs is some way to avoid damage through some escape ability, so he does not get focused so easily in coordinated group play. Currently the only way is plague form which is an elite with a long CD.
Another problem is that the burst damage of a glass-cannon necro is still worlds below that of other professions. On the other hand the survivability is much better. And that is simply due to DS which every necro has. So due to balancing reasons the necro must not be allowed to have high burst damage. In effect, the current DS mechanic is severely limiting the available roles the necro can play in PvP. In my opinion, the most elegant solution would be to add a #5 skill to DS which consumes all available life force (and so kicks the necro out of DS) for beneficial buffs like might/protection with a duration that depends on the amount of consumed life force.
Your engi teammate is a very good player. I also liked the ele.
The necro is working fine as long as the opposite team focuses the engi/ele, but you go down in a few seconds if plague form is on CD.
Dunno how well your build is actually performing, but it is definitely too boring for my taste since most of the time you just circle through your weapon sets and lay down aoe templates and the occational well.
Thanks very much for this info.
One thing I would to mention is that your team needs to put more effort into fixing bugs. I play a necro and the rate at which the bugs for this profession are fixed is really disheartening. If you do not speed this up, it might take another two or three month until the most crucial bugs are fixed and we finally can play this class as intended and judge about balancing. These are really bleak expectations.
@Peters Then at least have the decency to change that horrible necro ‘Reanimator’ trait so it will not give the opposite team a free rally. This way at least we could get some toughness point by speccing into this trait line which currently is simply not viable in PvP since Reanimator is too much of a liablity which can decide a tournament game. This is one of the most profession breaking bugs for the necro.
GW2 sPvP – the world’s most disappointing glory hole
If you get killed by a crit/power dagger necro on a defensive build guardian you seriously need to learn to play.
Rank neithers show dedication for PvP nor skill. It only shows the amount of time spend with PvP. A chimp could level up an account in sPvP if one could train him just to follow the zerg.
What damage are you talking about?
In my opinion this behavior just underlines the sad state of PvP in this game – people rather spend their time with a boring mindless grind than actually taking part in the PvP content.
‘Broken’, ‘bugged’, ‘substandard’ – I am not going to argue about semantics here. Maybe ‘broken’ was a bit hyperbolic since technically the PvP works. It just is no fun due to several problems which should have been addressed before release – and since that is the ultimate goal of a game, well …
Also justifying the premature release with ‘people being anxious’ does not really cut it considering the company mantra of releasing stuff ‘when it is ready’. Where was that attitude when they decided on the release date? People are also anxious now about Anet finally releasing some info about the future of PvP, but in this we have to wait – patiently.
I tell you where the difference is. 60 bucks.
And you totally miss the point.
Selling a broken product and then telling customers to patiently wait for fixes is a no-go for every product, not only subscribtion based video games.
Hi both of you.
It will arrive when it is ready but unfortunately we cannot make an exact estimation of when this will happen. We ask for your patience in the meantime. Thanks!
‘When it is ready’ seems to be the Anet’s company credo when it comes to fixes and necessary adjustments or even simple blog posts.
I just wonder where this attitude was when Anet decided on the release date of your game. Since apparently it was not ready when you take a look at the gazillion of bugs present. And do not dare to tell me Anet was not aware of these bugs, because several of them were already reported during the BWE.
Anet knew about the unfinished state of the game. Anet knew ‘it was not ready’, but Anet decided to release it anyway.
And now you have the balls to tell the customers to patiently wait for a fix for a product which your company knowingly sold in a broken state. That is rich!
You can ask for patience all you want, but fact is player are losing patience and leaving your game in droves (http://beta.xfire.com/games/gw2).
Whichever moron at marketing decided that GW2 needed to be released before MoP at any cost should be fired. The smarter decision would have been to fix all bugs and polikitten up some more and then release it 2 month after MoP and pick up all the disgruntled WoW players.
1 2