Guild Wars 2

Tyler Chapman.1832

Mesmers are getting some nice stuff.

Stay tuned.

Aveneo.2068:

This game would have been better off if the Thief class had never existed. Stealth in and of itself is inherently broken in most MMOs and giving one class access to a dynamic initiative system while keeping all others on a static cooldown system was a recipe for disaster.
[…]

i coulndn’t resist but to dig out an old quote from aveneo, which is still spot on

infantrydiv.1620:

Well rounded:
1. Warrior
2. Guardian
3. Thief

thief and warrior aren’t well rounded, they are quite over the top

Aveneo.2068:

This game would have been better off if the Thief class had never existed. Stealth in and of itself is inherently broken in most MMOs and giving one class access to a dynamic initiative system while keeping all others on a static cooldown system was a recipe for disaster.

Thief has to rely so much on stealth to get anything done as an old man has to rely on his cane. And personally I find the Thief class very unfun both playing one as well as playing against one as there is little to no counterplay involved.

+1 Couldn’t agree more. I’m amazed how spot on it is, it is exactly what i’m always telling my guildmates. Stealth, Initiative, never existed. Just every word. Wow.

Only difference is, i surrendered and are playing thief, even though i prefer the playstyle of my ele (i love attunement dancing) and the style of my mesmer (i just love everything about it, clones, the butterfly pink style, shattering, phantasms,… ) more.

I don’t mind losing because i’m getting outplayed, i failed or my builds weakness is countered by another players strength, but to lose because of my class chosing becomes really annoying. Especially since there shouldn’t be a holy trinity and a rule of class x kills class y because of healer tank and dps. Every class should hold his own (more or less, of course every class has its own emphasises) and player skill and/or the build should determine the outcome.
I simply outperform my ele and mesmer (especially in wvw, doing 80%wvw, 20%mists) with less effort, less risk and more reward.

On no other class i ask myself so often why am i allowed to do this or that and am simply stunned what this class is, similiar to helseth’ outrage in his twitch video in the other thread.

GreenLentil.3927:

I have a Logitech G 600 (or is it 500?) And the mouse’s wheel has 3 buttons, pressing it down, left or right. I have dodges on pushing the wheel to the right, and it’s super intuitive.

Used to use those tilt buttons on the mousewheel myself, but there are not very long-lasting. Ran through 2 mouses till my new g700 on which i don’t use them anymore since they will only work for a few months.

Currently i use 1 of my thumbbuttons for dodgerolling but i am going to change that, since there seems to be a small delay for the thumbuttons sometimes. It is not noticable for normal dodging but your accuracy to perform dodge-jumps drops dramatically, at least for me. I drop from almost always when only using the keyboard to 50% or so when using keyboard (jump) and mouse (dodge).

/edit on topic
never double tap ;p
and why is the thread mesmer specific? ;P

It’s missing a retrain option. It shouldn’t necessarily have all trainers to buy the books, but the possibility to retrain all my traits.
I don’t miss a fractal entrance, but not being able to retrait in such a place of luxury is a bummer.

Xavi.6591:

PU Condition Mesmers eat thieves for lunch.

You cant eat what you can’t catch.

aspirine.6852:

Yaro.3251:

aspirine.6852:

Map seems nice, but way to many way to push people off. I’ll skip. Sounds and looks like griefing heaven.

There’s a lot of space so it is up to you to not put yourself into position where you can be pushed off the cliff

I know, but imo there should be nothing like places you can push/stom/shoot people off. It’s something I really dislike and I hope other people too.

Watched the stream yesterday with some guildmates via ts3 and we were all wondering if the devs play with perma stability. Of course kicking someone into his death is fun in wvw and being aware of your surroundings and the map is part of pvp, but it seems a huge part of the map seems just to be designed for that kind of griefing.
I will have my fun abusing it (I loved Tor Anroc, some may remember that scenario in WAR) but I worry that the pvp part is being neglected if it all boils down to who has the most stability and fears/kicks & pulls.

I mean the most hilarious moment was when the dev on his own only fighting the npc with no player interference did mess up just that one dodgeroll and fell into his death.

Phi Is Sly.1857:

To do damge, go warrior
To do healing to group, go warrior
To do insane burst, go warrior
To do insane conidtion, go warrior
To bunker, go warrior
To remove conidtions from group, go warrior
To buff groups, go warrior
To Blast finisher, go warrior
To crowed control, go warrior
To roam, go warrior
To group play, go warrior

Did i miss any?

To permastealth, go thief

got you there! ;P

/edit on topic
since it seems to be aimed for beginners some smaller/obvious ones come to mind

- Arcane reduce all recharge rates, not only for the cd you set by switching out of the attunement but also notably for the “small” cd on the non selected attunements.
- under water: selfbuffed fire aura fire2 -> ice5, ice5 works similiar to warrior’s whirlwind against a wall. elite greatsword fiery rush timed with teleport lets you stack it like against a wall
- sometimes overlooked, arcane blast range is indeed 1500, very nice to finish off those pesky thieves who think they already escaped with 1% in wvw
- pheonix especially for wvw is, castable downwards but has problems when casting upwards (wiki: “The phoenix cannot travel up obstacles, but can travel down them.”)
-specific effects of some skills/traits e.g. evasive arcane and glyph of elementals are determined at the end of cast/dodge and not by the attunement you start in
-at certain obstacles you can port/flash up (midpoint forest of niflhel from the steps, while at max range, up the wall to the higher location) or through the obstacle (like mid borderland keep, inner woodfloor ring)

Caffynated.5713:

Nobody did it. Johnathan Sharp struggles beating staff eles, so they’re clearly OP.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/We-knew-Warriors-would-end-up-this-way/first#post3031584

JonathanSharp.7094:

That’s why we want to see what today’s improvements do to the game, especially to support meta. I ran into a VERY strong staff Elementalist earlier on live, and was excited to see it when I did.

Ele nerfs imminent.

Hilarious ^^

Khalic.3561:

Griswold.2054:

Khalic.3561:

[…] Nothing comparable to rocket boots of combo it with.

A guildmate of mine pointed out how nice it would have been if a longer duration would allow a similar combo like: switch on lightning for owa-proc, switch to fire and use staff’s 200 distance buffed burning retreat with the bonus (or a burning speed from dagger).

You could get that effect by swapping to air while wielding a lava axe, then using burning retreat. It might also have an effect on the LH leap, not sure though.

Oh right, of course, didn’t think of that, even though i was testing the double burning retreat with staff and axe in the mists. which btw is quite nice, a double 200distance buffed burning retreat is quite fun ^^

/edit speaking of testing it with conjures, it would be worthwhile to test it on flameswords whirlwind and especially fiery rush paired with flash

wish i had some free time on my hands to test the new patch, i definatley will test how a the aforementioned freshair/onewithair d/d ele in wvw with traited 32s rtl will perform now in wvw

/offtopic
nevertheless the best part about that patch is the fix for that lock-in-animation/cast bug while targetswitching or targetdying while channeling, makes me a much more happy sceptre ele

Khalic.3561:

[…] Nothing comparable to rocket boots of combo it with.

A guildmate of mine pointed out how nice it would have been if a longer duration would allow a similar combo like: switch on lightning for owa-proc, switch to fire and use staff’s 200 distance buffed burning retreat with the bonus (or a burning speed from dagger). Add in some Fresh Air Procs and even something crazy silly like 20pts in fire for cd reduction for a 16 burning retreat (just some fun theorycrafting) but unfortunately even with 30pts in arcane to reduce the attunement gcd of the non selected attunemt to 1 sec you cannot switch attunements fast enough to make it even work in the first place.

Maybe something like a fresh air/one with air d/d ele could become fun?

“Made it easier to retarget channeled skills. Now if players try to recast them on a separate target, it will cancel the current instance of the skill and start casting it again on the other target.”

Quite nice.

Stick to/Go thief. Thief is just unparalleled in wvw especially for roaming. You and your buddy will have some luxuries you can not dublicate on other classes (at least not that easy).
-No mobility differences and top mobility
-Thieves easily work very well together
-Resetting, you always can get away (just by yourself) and in addition can support each other in doing so, even if it is just shadow refuge
-You always pick your own fights
-Meeting a Zerg is no thread for you, quite the contrary, yo can harrass =)
-You can block a superior number of player because of your presence
-Possibility (rare but epic) of ninja’ing keeps especially since you’re in a duo, ofcourse high fail chance since you have to stay in the inner keep without being scouted for quite a time
-and so on…

If the basic permainvi/burst thief is not your thing try s/d thief, also very op in wvw, but due to stealth only on possible F1Steal and the optional shadowrefuge in comparisson stealthless.
Only reason you may die on s/d are other thieves who spec heavy burst and then most times since it is wvw and no 1on1 arena only the standard excuseses to die on a thief will kill you and your buddy: if you are caught unprepared on the run and with low hp, you overextended and/or you did not manage your CD’s correctly . But since your buddy is running a burst thief the biggest thread and s/d weakness is quite well covered due to counter bursting.

At the current state I honestly cannot advise to go anything BUT thief for wvw, except you like to zerg in wich case play what you like in pve (gvg is a different matter).
Go Thief + Thief and abuse the hell out of them. A draw is the closest to defeat you can get to.

Jarek.2430:

Griswold.2054:

Jarek.2430:

ARM.3912:

Sadly yes the ele is a dead class in WvW and PvP.

WvW? Ele’s not a dead class here.

if you consider to be a mediocre buffbot for the blob than of course ele has a place in wvw, reroll ele for static field!
i’d rather buffbot/play support on my warrior or guard, or play a necro rather than a staff ele which just feels weak and kitten compared to other classes

d/d ele is dead and was never as op as some made it out to be
besides d/d ele is now freeloot for my s/d thief

at least s/d fresh air ele is fun… till they give in to whines about lighning strike
as if it would be relevant, since for roaming there are much better alternatives

so yes i consider ele dead for wvw
i rerolled and gave up on hoping anet could balance their game and now play ez mode, achieving more with less effort

0/30/0/10/30 I switch between staff and s/d depending on situation and numbers. I dont feel weak nor unwanted. I see you mentioned Static field. Why? Its not even our strongest CC.
I cant speak for pvp or pve but for WvW you are off the mark.

of course you can hold your own with 0/30/0/10/30 and as i said its fun but i do find it in comparisson weak compared to other classes, and again of course you can roam with a s/d ele and if your burst hits its quite nice, but the risk/reward ratio is just off
compare it to for example to some burst or s/d thieves and you wonder why you ever bothered trying to play the ele in rvr
of course i speak solely about wvw
i do enjoy my s/d ele in spvp still much more than any other class but just because i like the playstyle but i would be more competitive -especially right now- on another class

static field was just an example, of course you do buffbot waterfields and such, but thats it, staff is an option for zerg nothing more, you’re deminished to support, for some its what they want ands thats fine but its the same reason why i won’t pick up a staff (/edit i grant you a full zerker meteor shower is somewhat nice from time to time, but staff is for a reason considered more support than damage)
you can play any class if you just run with the zerg and feel you contributed
but outsife of a zerg i consider a staffele freeloot (even inside of a zerg sometimes if he is not directly inside the blob), d/d ele is that too depending on class but even so d/d ele is no real thread unless outnumbered, s/f eles like in spvp do lack mobility for rvr i believe but I have not yet played one but from what i gather from a guildmate its similar to s/d, burst dependend and hope you won the fight with that burst, seems to be more fragile though

Jarek.2430:

ARM.3912:

Sadly yes the ele is a dead class in WvW and PvP.

WvW? Ele’s not a dead class here.

if you consider to be a mediocre buffbot for the blob than of course ele has a place in wvw, reroll ele for static field!
i’d rather buffbot/play support on my warrior or guard, or play a necro rather than a staff ele which just feels weak and kitten compared to other classes

d/d ele is dead and was never as op as some made it out to be
besides d/d ele is now freeloot for my s/d thief

at least s/d fresh air ele is fun… till they give in to whines about lighning strike
as if it would be relevant, since for roaming there are much better alternatives

so yes i consider ele dead for wvw
i rerolled and gave up on hoping anet could balance their game and now play ez mode, achieving more with less effort

BlackBeard.2873:

Halcyon.3140:

You are still able to heal in mist form if you have evasive arcana.

This is very true. It was the mistform—>ether renewal that was too much. It healed back up to like 70% and removed all condis. A reset like that is just too much.

and then there are thieves…

hihey.1075:

LordByron.8369:

people forgot that LH needs a guardian to take you alive.

And sorry if as an ELEMENTALIST player i refuse to see as the ONLY viable PvE profession, swinging a HAMMER in melee with all my skills and many utilities locked out.

Churning earth given the CD and the cast time is horrible.

People says mesmer has low dps.
Elementalist without hammer or FGS+wall has almost half f it with half survivability.

It just has the best cond cleansing around for PvE that is really handy in few situations, but ele needs much more…..expecially in sustained damage.

And i hope devs will stop the conjured nonsense.
It can be viable but its not what elementalists players wants to play.

“Is it fun?”
NO!

What does that mean?
It would be like “I’m a Warrior but I like only maces, shields and hammers, I’m full zerk I do no damge wtf”.
You cannot come out and say “Elementalist is the weakest class” when you refuse to use some of its core mechanics.
I mean, you could, but it would be proof of you being not so smart.

attunementdancing and the resulting access to more skills than only “2 weaponsets” is elementalists core mechanic, not that liability of conjured weapons, they are just a special class specific set of utilities like spirit weapons for guardian or spirits for ranger which in best case should form certain builds or extend and/or support the core mechanic (which they could)
if they were a core mechanic i would like that conjured weapons would be as op as core mechanics of some other classes, imagine conjured weapons as powerfull as unlimited acces to permastealth, an initiative system and steal

/edit or just our real core mechanic as powerfull…

i’d like to see, before adjusting damage or nature of each indivudual skill some basic changes:

earth shield cast time reduced to 1/4 like on the other conjures
earth shield, no self root on 4 and 5
bow, remove self root for 5, keep 4
hammer, remove selfroot
elite, remove selfroot while casting, keep casttime, remove selfroot on 2

let the “recharge 20% faster” traits work on the respective weapons, maybe except elite

Brassnautilus.2941:

yet all he had listed were true

no its not or completely out of context

weakest heal: no, compare base values, add 3 sec stealth
(overall healing you say? -> apples and oranges)
hp: like ele & guardian
armor: like engi & ranger
zero boons: never felt the need thanks to stealth,theoretically able to transfer, F1,..
zero invulnerable: prefer ammount of stealth
middle mobility?!?!: seriously?
(besides he seems to mix up perma swiftness & mobility, mobility > swiftness)
middle dps: burst is king
i like this one -> 1-3 support abilities:
haha, as if any thief rolled his class because he wanted to support ^^
i know i did not ;p

/edit most importantly: always dramatizing everything -.-
even my post is not sufficiently put into context, but i couldn’t believe that he actually meant what he wrote

Azraeel.1238:

Sunflowers.1729:

Azraeel.1238:

To all those who say thieves are OP, please roll one!!!!!!!

If you make it past level 30 without getting frustrated by the number of times you died, I’ll clap for you! If you think dungeons/fractals are easy at 80, I’ll salute you. If you think pvp in general is as simple as 1, 2 ,3…. I’ll Bow to you!

Cheers!

I did. They are ridiculous in WvW. It’s as you said, ‘simple as 1,2,3’!

Wait, I mean 5-2-1.

Edit: I don’t mean that I steamroll every roamer I come across because that would just be ridiculous. Obviously there are some builds which will not lose to me, such as bunker D/D elementalists.

However in WvW there is no penalty to running away, so I never die. Just don’t over-commit and you don’t have to die either. We have so many ways to run away that roaming is almost completely risk-free.

Oh for God sake, Dude, are you trying to be smart? You just mentioned us using 3 attacks out of 5, hurray!!! In fact, 4 and 3 are very good situational skills. The 4 will make your life easier if the guy was running away (instead of chain HS when everything else is on cooldown), and the 3 would get you out of tight situations if you were out of dodge and revealed.

Moreover, you forgot about all of the combos you could do with D/D and other weapon sets. Even if you execute them perfectly, you have a HUGE chance to mess up. For example, just missing a CnD or getting blocked costs us 6 initiatives.

Since you totally skipped the pve part (leveling/dungeons/fractals), I’ll assume you found those tough. Which leaves WvW? Just because we can slip away, doesn’t makes us OP, nor ridiculously easy to play. All it takes is one mistake and you are done for. I can’t count the times where I got pulled out of my shadows refuge then instantly immobilized to be burst down by someone else.

first of, gratz that you’ve seem to get the point and but somehow still miss it
nobodies argues that the thief in pve is underpowerred, in pve they need a buff and are just more pain to play compared to other classes
same goes for spvp where stealth doesn’t grant you the way to an easy win
but everybody speaks about wvw
wvw is the place where the thief is considered op, easy mode, no risk high reward, makes every other class obsolete in roaming, whatever you want

you simply overexagerrate and or have a l2play issue, you don’t have such a HUGE chance to mess up it DOES NOT TAKE ONE SINGLE mistake and you’re done for, for that the thief has a to much ways to disengage and reset the fight
just the other day i messed up a in 1on1 against a mesmer, backstab missed by hitting a bypassing clone not him and such, did waste initiative while still having revealed and such, just didnt play focused enough (3 in the morning) more then one mistake, who cares? i just reseted the fight engaged again and the fight was over in a few skills
of course there are some builds and player combination where you don’t get the freekill, but you can notice those matchups fast enough and just walk away, no loot for either of you
but even so, those are rare matchups and after all we speak about wvw where the battle environment changes quickly and most people lack solid pvp experience

its just an example, even if you mess up it has less harsh consequences compared to other classes who if they do mess up faces risk of dying, especially if i would wear the same offensive equipment like on my thief (edit3 wanted to add that i feel much safer on a thief near a superior number of players than on any other of my classes, even in a zerg its not that hard to mess up, just refrain from headless spamming, skirmish around the zerg is the most fun)

compare how often shadow refuge worked an how often it did not, its still one of the best if not the best escape tool ingame in rvr, besides its not your only tool, maybe you used shadowstep prematurely which i assume you have on your bar as a d/d

i cant remember being pulled out of shadow refuge by a just single person which lead to me being dead afterwards, its sound more like you’ve been pulled out of shadow refuge against superior numbers in which case most other classes wouldn’t even have the chance of escape, and even then in those cases shadow step can easily save you

with a little map awareness, so you won’t be suprised by some burst, and some restrain, so you do not overextend, you do not die in wvw as a thief, and IT IS EASY to pull off
make it really fun and group up with some guildmates who also leveled up a thief just to abuse him in rvr and see the difference of night and day in wvw and feel free to do whatever you want in wvw

/edit
i admit i play the thief only a quarter to third of my rvr time, so flame me, not that i don’t expect any different in general,
/edit2
to summarize: seemingly unlike you, i feel op on my thief (of course in wvw)

cause white lion!

/edit darn it, now i want ‘fetch’ and 2hand axes for the ranger ^^

/edit ups quote fail

yes i do not care if they balance the thief or not, but i do care about the hypocracy which some here in the forum present in fear of getting nerfed

I at least say my class X is op compared to others. Most won’t even admit imbalances.

You may disagree but of course every class can excell if played by a good player, but that player would be stupid to waste more potential which he could have on a more op class. Except of course he doesn’t like the playstyle or the missing challenge or whatever. Either way, good player or bad player, i believe he cripples himself in a competetive way when he is playing for example a ranger. Of course again speaking solely out of an rvr point of view.

/edit
A lot of people here try to argue that there is no imbalance in classes, and its ALL a matter of l2p. But i believe certain classes, at least in rvr, have the upper hand by quite a margin.

ZenonSeth.5739:

Griswold.2054:

I do not care anymore if Anet fixes the thief or not. But all those thieves denying and trying to defend their op’ness is quite annoying.

You don’t care, yet here you are in a thread doing exactly what you said you don’t care anymore. Don’t act like some sort of victim, it’s a discussion – and what do you expect by the way – for every thief to throw up their arms and agree with you? Maybe you think Thieves are OP, but I don’t think they are. Maybe I’m not the greatest Thief player in the world – but that’s just the point – if Thieves were truly OP, you wouldn’t need a Thief expert player to make it feel OP.

Griswold.2054:

Mesmer is in good hands as op as a thief …

There ya go – I don’t think that when a profession “in good hands” becomes powerful (and I’m still arguing your over-powered point) should be punished. Good players will be better than not-so-good players.

And just so you get this, I’ll repeat this again:
I’m not defending Thief’s OP, because I don’t think there is anything OP about it, and Thieves have a steep learning curve to become good! Being a good player should not be punished!

you don’t need any expert player to prove some class is op, im not that allmighty expert player and feel op on my mesmer

Silver.4798:

Griswold.2054:

thief is probably one of the easiest at least in world vs world
right now i feel, allmost all classes are punished for not playing thief (or mesmer) in wvw (zergfest excluded), the effort you have to take to kill a thief is much more than for him to kill other classes

I’m sorry I’m laughing so hard, not sure if you’re trolling. I hope that you’ve actually got a thief, leveled him/her to 80 and tried perma stealth/ “thief ez mode in wvw” whatever you think that might be.

You must be the most gifted player in gw2 that I have ever heard of. Secret is out everyone, guys playing warrior guards or mes are wasting their time. They should try playing the thief and enjoy the thief OP ez mode.

I do not care anymore if Anet fixes the thief or not. But all those thieves denying and trying to defend their op’ness is quite annoying. I quitted my thief in favor of mesmer
and i am a the point whenever i’m sick of certain imbalances, i just log onto my mesmer, which is as or maybe even more op than the thief and enjoy some “ez mode” in rvr.
I always wonder why should i play my guardian or warrior. And yes, warriors and guardians outside of the zergfest are wasting their time compared to mesmer and thief.
Your opionion might differ so be it, fine.

Mesmer is in good hands as op as a thief, but i’d be happy, even so i play mesmer, if anet nerfed him. An overall better class balance is good for the whole playerbase and not just me. For me right now there is no point in playing anything but a mesmer and thief in rvr (again: for overall play outside of zergfest and guildparties).

/edit and of course i am not the most gifted player blabla… i never said i’d be. but i do say i feel much more ‘gifted’ on my mesmer than on my other classes.

ZenonSeth.5739:

You mean like the nerf they already gave it by changing Revealed to be 4s?
Have you ever played a thief? Do you know how difficult keeping up invisibility can be?

in most cases its not that difficult

So you get angry cause of one guy has learned his profession and can use it really well – and now, of course, you want to not just punish that player, but also punish everyone else who plays thief.

learned his profession? thieves are easy to play as it is, easier than most classes (not that they are that hard either), but thief is probably one of the easiest at least in world vs world
right now i feel, allmost all classes are punished for not playing thief (or mesmer) in wvw (zergfest excluded), the effort you have to take to kill a thief is much more than for him to kill other classes

ZenonSeth.5739:

You sir, are a hateful man, and need to learn to accept that some people just play better than you. (not me though, last I went into WvW with a thief I was killed in four hits)

i believe a lot of people have problems with thieves that even when they “outplay” the thief they gain nothing, besides as a thief you can compete with players above your skill level at least in wvw

Mayhem.1935:

Hi. First of all i want to preface this with a few facts.
1- I am a Champion Shadow in tpvp/spvp. Not a big deal but it is what it is.
2- I have lvl 80 chars of thief/mesmer/warrior/ranger
3- I prefer small man fighting in WvW, solo to under 10 players.
4- I have played MMos since UO with alot of time in DAoC as a nightshade RR8 before ToA exp.
5- My thief spec is p/d + d/p.

Now with that said i want to simply state some of my experiences with the thief in wvw.
1- I do not die. I reiterate. I DO NOT DIE. I may not “win” a fight, but there is no possible way i can die to players, even 25+ zergs. It just cannot happen. Call it culling call it whatever you want to, it never happens. Stealth and unpredictability with huge mobility is the culprit that i utilize fully.
2- Stats. I keep reading about spvp this and that on this thread like it matters. Thieves in spvp are fine yes because just like every other class they are pigeonholed to have only certain available stats with caps on crit . In wvw you can min/max your stats with ascended gear and exotics to make a stone cold killing machine. I’ve tested with a GC build and it is a JOKE how fast you can take someone out. Steal +mug c/d bs and its essentially over. Yes it isnt a “one hit” but it happens in a second flat so it might as well be.
3- Thieves are squishy and have no hps or defenses if they spec that way. This on paper is absolutely correct. However, this doesnt matter. Again, IT DOESNT MATTER. You cant die if you cant get hit. “AOE everything, L2P!” Seriously i LOL at all the AOE im 100 paces away. Shadowstep in, insta bang someone dead, shadow step back im safer than if i had 100000000 hp. All the thieves using this “crutch” of no defense are lying or not playing well.
4- People arent as bad as you think, thieves make people look bad. “they dont dodge” “they run around aimlessly” etc etc. Dodge what? Run to where? THEY CANT SEE YOU. Yes, there are some bad players. And mediocre ones, some good ones and even great ones. None of that matters. THEY CANT KILL ME. And that is a problem. I’m not a great player. I just play a thief.
5- Mobility. Yea i am currently playing p/d so yea ppl can run away from me if they are eles, or some warriors even if they have a proper weapon set. But on GC you have got to be kidding me. SB5, SS, HS movement no one escapes but them. 5 classes have no where to go if i dont want them to.
6- Stealth. Wow, just wow. In any -real- game that claims balance, ( not perfect world or some nonsense) this stealth is just OP. Health regen while stealthed, constant access to stealth IN COMBAT, remove conditions in stealth, move faster in stealth. Complete invis in stealth (no detection). Full time stealth in other games like WoW/DAoC/etc had slower movement speed, a way to detect if you where too close to other enemy players and they notice you, and removal of stealth on dmg. This is a big F up on Anet.
7-Thieves are terrible in mass fighting. This is not the case in the slightest. Keep defense/siegeing SB is like your own personal mobile siege weapon. Poison fields that do 33 less healing in a large raidus +weakness, cluster bomb that hits like a truck to multiple targets. See a downed or low life guy? Port in finish him off, port back undetected, easy peasy.
8- Thief in WvW is absolute GODMODE. Out of all my classes it was the only one i could be lvl 20 in wvw and kill actual 80s. I would get STOMPED hard on my other characters if i tried that. If you play a thief and feel you are underpowered or need buffs or we are “fine”, well…

QFT
wonderful post
finally an honest thief player and not one of those delusional ones

Dragon.7682:

Just noticed that my clones are now randomly putting poison on death due to dibiliating dissipation. Please let this stay Anet!

where did you encounter that happening? sure not chaos storm was the source of poison or something else?
i cannot reproduce your findings

was trying it at chieftain/svanir in the mists and in pve just letting the mobs kill my clones (and with overwriting my clones at golem to force death) and poison does not get applied, nothing unusual just bleeding vuln and weakness as described in the wiki for dibiliating dissipation

Thobek.1730:

xiv.7136:

It makes recovering from mistakes too easy, and makes bad players think they’re good.

^ totally this. Bad players love the stealth mechanic, running around during a fight being invisible, untargetable.

+1
the thief enables bad players to beat/compete_with higher skilled players

i always laugh at those thieves who do actually die in small skirmish fights
you always can get away and reset the fight, the only way you die as a thief is when you overextend yourself or are being caught tremendously offguard

considering permastealth, thief has perma stealth. (especially with culling) whenever i need it i have it, and its a joke to say you win the fight if the thief stealths
the thief is not dead, no loot, no badges, in BEST CASE its a draw
i can keep a larger group occupied, can ‘block’ and slow down a larger group by just being there as a thief (which is kinda something the thief is there for, putting some uncertainty some hidden possible pressure in the fight, but there is no risk, just reward)

there are so many thieves who think their own skill makes the class good to the extend that they think nerfs are unjustified
every non delusional thief or actual good thief knows how op the thief is and just enjoys their OPness with a smirk on his face
/edit well… an some with a wtf-anet?-expression on their face ^^

this is spoken of course out of an rvr point of view

Dual.8953:

Griswold.2054:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

stof.9341:

jan.9745:

Seems like you dont know what is 1 hit?
Ranger, mesmmer, elem, guardian, engineer, necro they can’t do a 1 hit strike. Lol
Even they are GC build.,

I can’t speak for all the classes here but do you know that the Elementalist Churning Earth spell does more damage than Backstab?

To original post, not the person i’m quoting:
Also, thieves don’t 1 hit anything. Backstab requires a setup skill. Why does everyone keeps forgetting that?

Its astonishing how much enlightenment you always get in the Thieves Forums. I was not aware of Churning Earth possibly doing more damage than Backstab.

I mean it IS surprising after all: A skill which requires just a cast time of 3 1/4s, has no aoe warning circle whatsoever, misses a unique and visible casting animation is definately unpredictable. That kitten spammable 30s cooldown skill, which on top can not be interupted or easily dogged and does not need any “setting up skill” which grants e.g. stability is indeed comparable to backstab. I seem to always forget that. kitten you Churning Earth, kitten you!

They were debating PvE where NPCs are too stupid to dodge.

And we all know this thread was made because everybody consideres thieves op in PVE … silly me

/edit
To clarify: adjustments made in PVP cause of an comparison of the effectiveness of skills used in PVE is wrong, especially when the balance, use and effect of these skills differ so much depending on in which field there are used.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

stof.9341:

jan.9745:

Seems like you dont know what is 1 hit?
Ranger, mesmmer, elem, guardian, engineer, necro they can’t do a 1 hit strike. Lol
Even they are GC build.,

I can’t speak for all the classes here but do you know that the Elementalist Churning Earth spell does more damage than Backstab?

To original post, not the person i’m quoting:
Also, thieves don’t 1 hit anything. Backstab requires a setup skill. Why does everyone keeps forgetting that?

Its astonishing how much enlightenment you always get in the Thieves Forums. I was not aware of Churning Earth possibly doing more damage than Backstab.

I mean it IS surprising after all: A skill which requires just a cast time of 3 1/4s, has no aoe warning circle whatsoever, misses a unique and visible casting animation is definately unpredictable. That kitten spammable 30s cooldown skill, which on top can not be interupted or easily dogged and does not need any “setting up skill” which grants e.g. stability is indeed comparable to backstab. I seem to always forget that. kitten you Churning Earth, kitten you!