Guild Wars 2

Outnumbered isn’t even working as intended, yet here you are claiming the change is good.

You can’t even scout which maps blobs play on by checking the outnumbered icon anymore because it doesn’t appear for 5 minutes.

Gop.8713:

This is the first negative feedback I’ve seen on the outnumbered change.

Outnumbered is severely broken but all SJW here on this forum claim it is the best change ever.

Revert the changes.

Sarge.9730:

I haven’t even noticed the changes as a player actually playing WvW.

Just because you haven’t doesn’t mean others don’t.

Yes, I’ll be the one to say it.

Far from me to defend pip AFK farmers, but these changes do more damage than good. Revert the Outnumered and Decay changes and think of better solutions.

Lets not forget to actually test them either before annoying players with band-aid fixes on live servers.

I know the devs are trying and respect to them for doing so, but these just aren’t the best solutions.

+1

This has implications far beyond just annoying pip AFK farmers. Now there is no way to know which map you should play on to defend objectives because you can’t see if enemy blobs are there.

This change wasn’t even tested before pushing live.

Dawdler.8521:

Gunner Morton.8340:

Commander Bonus
Squad with 5 players – 1 pip
Squad with 25 players – 2 pips
Squad with 50 players – 3 pips

This basicly mean your 50 man tell your 5 man squad “oh look, you’re useless”.

I suggest the following instead:
Squad with 5 players – 3 pips
Squad with 25 players – 2 pips
Squad with 50 players – 1 pip

Flipping this around will surely cause even more abuse than the current outnumbered abuse.

Dawdler.8521:

This basicly mean your 50 man tell your 5 man squad “oh look, you’re useless”.

I know this is problematic, so maybe there should be a different system for this type of participation. The only reason I distributed pips this way is because blobs are very common on my server any time of day and 5 man squads would be useless against them and commander faces more responsibility when dealing with these numbers. They could still be useful by flipping objectives, so maybe a different mechanic would help.

Threather.9354:

What i dont like about your suggestion is the bigger pip gain difference between 2nd and 3rd place on a gamemode where doubleteaming is very frequent.

Yep, edited but forum post edits are so kitten slow so you posted before it got through.

Threather.9354:

Eotm is wvw just lower quality. [..] I got my diamond in real WvW but even in EotM it would have taken ages.

Technically, EOTM isn’t directly related to your world, so many players I know would deem it to be more leaning towards PvE than WvW. EOTM karmatraining was a lot faster and easier than WvW karmatraining.

Threather.9354:

Also commanders dont need extra rewards for commanding, we dont want people to tag up just for extra rewards. +1 pip was approriate.

My theory is that if people will tag up just for rewards and command like kitten they will get burned in map chat and people will not be bothered to join their squad, so they would never get the additional pips. The other option is adding a timer to see if their squad is filled over a longer period of time.

There have been posts all over in various threads discussing this so maybe it would be a good idea to have a thread that is solely dedicated to discussing pip distribution.

So ArenaNet probably used analytics to determine how they hand out pips based on various forms of gameplay, but the current distribution of pips is problematic.

More specifically, as a relatively frequent morning commander, I am now more likely to play solo to take advantage of the outnumbered buff because tagging up will result in an influx of players and I will thus loose the buff and play for less rewards. I am surely not the only player who does this, so this can’t be a good thing.

The other issue is that in its current form EOTM farmers are rewarded more pips because of their high rank that is, lets face it, illegitimately earned by exploiting EOTM karmatrains. EOTM is not real WvW, so why are they rewarded more over players who didn’t abuse EOTM and are stuck at 1.000 or 2.000 rank?

I think we should communicate better that the current distribution is out of wack. So maybe it is a good idea to post your wishlist for pip distribution below.

Outnumbered map hopping is also a genuine problem, but is better discussed in a separate thread.

War Score Placement
Last place – 2 pip
Second place – 3 pips
First place – 4 pips

WvW Rank
Bronze – 0 pips
Silver and Gold – 1 or 2 pips
Platinum, Mithril, Diamond and up – 2 or 3 pips

Commander Bonus
Squad with 5 players – 1 pip
Squad with 25 players – 2 pips
Squad with 50 players – 3 pips

Server commitment
2 pips

Outnumbered
1 or 2 pips

SailorSpira.9371:

Gunner Morton.8340:

Endelon.1042:

http://dulfy.net/2016/04/28/gw2-world-vs-world-poll/

WvW Scoring Improvements

Reduce the impact of night capping.
Lessen the gap between winning scores and losing scores so losing teams can still recover.
Adjust objective score relative to upgrade level.
Adjust score for capturing objectives.
Rebalance the score awarded for activities that don’t reward points per tick.
Take suggestions from the community!

The changes in bold have yet to be implemented even though they were part of the very first “poll”.

This.

Not voting until they finish the stuff they mentioned in the previous polls. Nightcap fix is too important and affects this new poll so until they change it there is no reason to vote now.

Reduce the impact of night capping.
Lessen the gap between winning scores and losing scores so losing teams can still recover.

I think both of those were part of the Skirmish system. As a dreaded night capper, I’m fine with that solution. You aren’t the only people who play, sorry.

You mean the solution of no solution at all so you can continue your nightcapping? Yeah, I can figure why you’re fine with ‘that solution’ as it doesn’t prevent nightcappers from ruining the matchup while 90% of the other players are asleep.

Endelon.1042:

http://dulfy.net/2016/04/28/gw2-world-vs-world-poll/

WvW Scoring Improvements

Reduce the impact of night capping.
Lessen the gap between winning scores and losing scores so losing teams can still recover.
Adjust objective score relative to upgrade level.
Adjust score for capturing objectives.
Rebalance the score awarded for activities that don’t reward points per tick.
Take suggestions from the community!

The changes in bold have yet to be implemented even though they were part of the very first “poll”.

This.

Not voting until they finish the stuff they mentioned in the previous polls. Nightcap fix is too important and affects this new poll so until they change it there is no reason to vote now.

The devs closed the EU linking thread making discussion in it impossible, yet the NA linking thread is open for discussion. Why is this?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/NA-World-Linking-28-October
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/EU-World-Linking-28-October

Can we get the poll now so we can get rid of this kitten kitten jesus christ who comes up with this crap

You could have probably submitted the change in the time it took you to write this post.

Almost nobody is using repair hammers yet the result is 50 / 50? Its either rigged or PvE players are voting on kitten they have no knowledge of, skewing the result in the process.

Jana.6831:

You can’t lock tiers on EU but anet just did that. And that not because of the languages but because we had always changing rankings, you can’t determine who is and who isn’t a Tier X server, but anet just decided. And with that people will either bandwagon or just leave because wvw is pointless.

Good way to put it as it is sadly quite true.

Eval.2371:

I don’t think how many people realize how much a 1 month relink will discourage band wagoning. It will cost to much to do for the usual wvw player. Band wagoning in some form will always be a thing, because people always try to game the system.

Changing to 1 month relinking wont change much as transfering to a medium population server only costs 500 gems, which is currently roughly 81 gold. You can get that amount by farming PvE for 1 or 2 hours.

I think it is clear from all the top posts currently being discussed on this subforum that it is time for ArenaNet to seriously reconsider how server linking currently functions and if there is no way to fix the current issues then it should be removed as soon as possible to prevent further damage to the game mode.

Server linking may have been voted on by the majority, but I think the majority didn’t expect it would turn out to be this kittenshow.

The three big issues that exist currently related to server linking:

1. Bandwagoning: the current linking system allows players to easily transfer to top tier servers for a cheap price of 500 gems. My guess is that ArenaNet thought it would allow lower population servers to fill up over time during the 2 month linking. The problem here is that once that link is over all the players that the lower population server gained will move off again to the next cheap top tier server link. ArenaNet should have known this would happen and failure to fix this issue shows that it exists solely to keep the gems flowing.
2. Imbalance: the linking was supposed to address some of the population imbalance that was already an issue. Instead of coming up with decent links that are based on proper statistics, imbalance is actually even more of an issue now. Furthermore when coming up with the links ArenaNet seems to unintentionally lock servers in certain tiers because given the population it will be impossible to face higher population servers. ArenaNet pretty much confirmed this by saying they are looking to create “more interesting matchups” within the tier.
3. Server pride: the linking system completely destroyed any remaining server pride. My guess is this is probably intentional for when they want to roll out megaservers for WvW, this would be easier to roll out if all existing communities have died. Also linked servers get little to no name recognition because there is no flair ingame that shows if a player is from the base server or from the linked server. PvP and PvE players get all kinds of useless flairs but WvW players are, as always, left out.

How to fix:

1. Easy to fix by adding a transfer penalty (e.g. 1 transfer per 12 months) but ArenaNet probably doesn’t want to do this because they will miss out on gems from WvW players.
2. Probably no way to fix because even with access to all kinds of statistics ArenaNet still comes up with utterly flawed server linkings, hence my call to remove the system altogether.
3. Add a flair to show the player’s server when you hover over the player model. Also the transfer penalty would do server pride some good also.

Some sources and ongoing discussions:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Does-this-look-fair-to-you
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/What-happend-to-Gunnar-s-Hold
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Are-servers-just-a-name-now
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Servers-with-most-WvW-activity
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/nice-brain-cell-s-anet
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Transfer-WvW-delay
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Impose-transfers-penalty

OriOri.8724:

As of 8pm EST on the 29th, 18.1% of people who have participated in the poll have opted out of voting one way or the other. That’s a pretty large % of players that either don’t care or haven’t seen enough to make a decision yet.

@Anet if that % doesn’t drop significantly you may want to consider extending the beta test of repair hammers through some of the other changes coming to WvW to give people more time to test them and form an opinion of whether they are good or bad

Just because they vote for the ’don’t count my vote’ option doesn’t mean they don’t have an idea of what it is like ingame. More than likely those votes mean ’Don’t care, waste of time, next poll please’.

I’d rather have them removed. Blobs can pretty much keep repairing cata’s until a wall is down if they have enough players around.

Hexinx.1872:

Gunner Morton.8340:

Hexinx.1872:

Looking at the score evolution of Gunner’s Hold shows, at best … mediocre ppt across the week, only taking the ppt lead once or twice for a very short time (less than 1 skirmish) on the 25th.

This is because the server has 1/4th the population compared to the other 2 servers in the matchups.

So you’re initial comment isn’t a complaint about skirmishes (the thread), it’s just venting frustration at the poor server linking GH ended with (unrelated topic). GH (eu) so to speak seems similar to the DH (na) of past linking. Yet on their relink (DH) they now are doing much better. Some crappy weeks ahead, but could be fixed next linking.

Back to topic of how skirmishes are doing, and how people feel about them

I’m commenting on what I experience ingame, its pretty much impossible to not take into account major population issues caused by ArenaNet when looking at what effect score system changes have had.

Conclusion is the changes are useless if the server gets screwed over with flawed links as several other players here have also noted.

Hexinx.1872:

Looking at the score evolution of Gunner’s Hold shows, at best … mediocre ppt across the week, only taking the ppt lead once or twice for a very short time (less than 1 skirmish) on the 25th.

This is because the server has 1/4th the population compared to the other 2 servers in the matchups.

I thought this system was supposed to nerf nightcapping. On Gunnars Hold I don’t see a difference compared to before, scores still run away with an utterly large gap. So my take is: scrap this system and back to the drawing board to ACTUALLY fix WvW issues.

Then again that might be due to the horrible server linking you guys come up with: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/What-happend-to-Gunnar-s-Hold/

The only toxic on GH was buttered but hes on AG now so they can enjoy his troll messages.

So what happend here? With the latest linking the server has the lowest population of any EU server by a LONG shot.

Any Anet dev around here that can comment on why they consciously destroyed the server by linking it with Vabbi that has 5-10 core players at max?

If you’re going to link servers atleast stop counting all the players that bandwagoned on there just to get to top tier servers for cheap, because obviously those players are going to leave before reset is even over.

Just a quick look on MOS shows us that the server is outnumbered atleast 2 to 1 all the time, ingame confirms that it is outnumbered on every map 24/7 the past few weeks.

It has been the same for the past 4 matchups but the current matchup also shows the issue clearly:

Gunnars Hold:
3791 kills
4932 deaths

Drakkar Lake:
9923 kills
8941 deaths

Aurora Glade:
9026 kills
9868 deaths

???? Anet logic.

To the people who are planning on transfering off of Gunnars Hold because of this mess be sure to get your gems by converting them from gold, no need to financially support this kittenshow with real currency.

Rink.6108:

Players could always transfer servers “easily” (IF they had no pride for their server) and it was far less expensive back then when gems were cheaper. Population has always been volatile (again this were people with already low serverpride), I remember servers getting stacked, left etc pre-linking all the time. Most WvW players have transfered pre-linking several times already. I am sure in this forum you will find a lot of evidence for this.

The big difference is that previously servers weren’t used as a gateway for getting to top tier serers and thus were not abused the way they are now.

Server pride wasn’t dead when linking got introduced. Rather server pride was killed by server linking.

The new system allows players to easily bandwagon to the next server via a cheap link. This causes the population to be volatile, destroying existing communities in the process.

This shows why linking will most likely be death cause #1 of WvW as we know it.

Anet probably knows this also and does nothing to stop this from happening because they will most likely roll out a megaserver type WvW system some time in the future.

For them it is better to kill any remaining server pride this way instead of having to deal with the revolt that would have occurred otherwise.

ArenaNet killed Gunnars Hold server with this linking, GG devs.

Will never purchase gems again just to show my disgust with the situation.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Gunner Morton.8340:

Yeah, this population (im)balance is amazing.

You don’t seem to have any outnumbered “buff” at the moment, so either you just got wiped or the 3rd server has even smaller numbers.

Obviously ROF has even smaller nummers, the current scoring, posts from ROF folks in this thread and my observations ingame all confirm this, so this is why we didn’t have the buff.

Yeah, this population (im)balance is amazing.

A quick temporary fix could be adding a confirmation box on tactivators. It may not deter actual trolls but it could prevent random PvErs from pulling them for no reason.

Ever since Gunnars Hold got linked with Underworld I’m seeing more and more tactivator trolls and siege drop trolls. Every time a tactivator comes off cooldown there is a guy that pulls it to ruin other peoples fun, making any upgrade that guilds put in effectively useless.

If you’re going to have tactivators in the game atleast add a log and add a ban button so that trolls can no longer annoy guilds that have put in tons of gold.

The current option to disable public tactivation simply doesn’t cut it because there are guilds that put in upgrades to help other guilds on the map defend the objectives when they themselves are unable to do so.

Go back to PvE if you are into crafting and stop bothering WvWers by taking up map space

Decent changes hype

In most matchups that Gunnars Hold is in the enemies still outnumber is 3 to 1, I though this world linking stuff was supposed to balance things more? But all it has done is narrow the population deviation. So if you’re still on the lower side of the deviation you’re out of luck as a server unable to move to higher tiers.

So this is the reason why I voted no. Perhaps scoring changes will make things more fair..

Yup and it’s getting really annoying because it seems like they don’t know this bug even exists while anyone that has played for extensive periods has suffered from this one.

Good changes, especially the nerf to nightcapping which IMO needs that Action Level system to finish it off. But when I read about “Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier” being based on map population does that mean the entire population, of all 3 servers on a map, or the population of our home server or even the population of the enemy servers?

I think it should be based on the amount of resistance that you face while capturing the objective, making population of the enemy the best way to balance this Action Level system, I think.

Also Tyler for president.

I see alot more people on alpine than desert. Though you have to understand that the damage Anet has done with HoT won’t be magically fixed by bringing stuff back from before HoT.

Many people have left the game as a vote of no confidence and it will take time to get them back, though even I have my doubts of them returning at all..

I take it you enjoy playing in desert borderlands by yourself?

Svarty.8019:

Vote Bernie! <cough> I mean er… vote for Scoring please:
https://feedback.guildwars2.com/en/results

But are we going to build a wall to ward off the PvErs that are trying to farm the reward track?

Seems like population is pretty balanced now.

/sarcasm off

dR Nobody.8457:

FogLeg.9354:

Perhaps the Boon stripping or corrupting skills should only remove one stack of Stability per 0.75 sec, same way the control skills do.

That is without doubt a really, really terrible idea. The boon stripping/corrupting skills would be useless then, since u do have up like 8-10 different boons in your group.

Perhaps his idea should be limited to stab only so if it tries to strip stab away it should only strip a few stacks instead of all.

dR Nobody.8457:

Gunner Morton.8340:

Not sure if I’m wrong but, for some reason there are still issues with stability. A few days ago I ran around in fire keep and used dolyak signet to get 10 stacks of stability that a mesmer was able to strip with just one attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Opr-zbnzQ#t=45s

You are wrong. You got hit by Mind Stab (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mind_Stab). Skill description: “Thrust your greatsword into the ground, damaging foes and removing 1 boon.”

Hmm, so this means that if a pug group runs 2-3 mesmers the stability changes are basically useless? Seeing as it has a five (forum censors the number, wtf) target cap this could strip stab away from all warriors on the frontline instantly.

FogLeg.9354:

Gunner Morton.8340:

Not sure if I’m wrong but, for some reason there are still issues with stability. A few days ago I ran around in fire keep and used dolyak signet to get 10 stacks of stability that a mesmer was able to strip with just one attack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Opr-zbnzQ#t=45s

Could very well be a bug. I can see it happening at 0:49, 10 stack appearing and then all gone. Have you report it as the possible bug?

And btw, I am on that video

Not sure how or where to report a bug like this. The ingame reporting tool isn’t sophisticated enough to link to the video. I’m hoping devs see this post instead.

Not sure if I’m wrong but, for some reason there are still issues with stability. A few days ago I ran around in fire keep and used dolyak signet to get 10 stacks of stability that a mesmer was able to strip with just one attack.

I’m on Gunnars Hold and we got linked with Fissue of Woe and I haven’t noticed much in terms of population balancing. In our current matchup against FSP they still outnumber us 10 to 1 so it still shows there are big population imbalance issues happening.

Perhaps split larger servers like FSP in two so that it becomes more easy to distribute the excess players over other servers for true balance.

Will WvW upgrades be nerfed in price also?

ALPINE BORDERLANDS HYPE