Guild Wars 2

Does anyone else think that these should be changed to trigger on something other than fall damage in pvp?

For example, they can be made to activate when you take a certain percentage of your health in damage in a single strike.

They should just copy the stats of the AED heal onto rebound. Both skills serve the same purpose but rebound has over twice the cooldown and less than half of the healing.

Distracting strikes and body blow should be in Arms; unsuspecting foe and burst precision should be in strength.

Why are warrior’s best condition damage traits outside of their condi trait line while physical damage traits take their spots?

Miyu.8137:

Full bunker Druid does literally no damage.

With birds and smoke scale, they can burst for over 10k damage as a bunker.

This trait made necros have some actual team play. Watching two Heralds support a reaper this sunday reminded me of the days when good teams use to bring two condi engis and a necro for epidemic. You don’t see synergy like that anymore. .. we need more traits like blighter’s boon, not less.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Give Warriors a 4th trait line
Make fast hands baseline
Let Warriors have 30 adrenaline out of combat
Let me take stances and other utilities at the same time
Let me carry 3 Weapons at once

Do I fit in yet?

With strength being mandatory for power builds, defense being mandatory to survive, and discipline being mandatory for fast hands… only a fourth slot will make some of us consider taking berserker in PvP.

I an lucky if I can use CAF once in a single match.

I think most of us would be able to find a reason to take berserker.

We need a option to turn off finishers. These things have become more obnoxious than anything else that affect visibility.

Burning will be a welcome change. The skill that shoots out barbed vines should also apply bleeding.

Sarif.1827:

While I agree Embrace the Darkness needs something to spice it up, Have you ever consider just how powerful that 10% Stat buff is?

That is not just power, it’s healing, health, armor, Condi Damage, Crit rate and damage…

Also, comparing one skill, even an Elite to Two skills working in concert is kinda unfair to the elite.

From what I have seen, the bonus is negligible. Damage, healing, and armor were all pretty much the same in pvp.

I think the elite can be compared to the mace auto attack alone lol. The mace auto attack applies torment twice as fast with only a two second shorter duration than etd; it also has physical damage, poison application, and no upkeep cost.

Kidel.2057:

you are again avoiding all my point.
You say “we lost all the condis that we self inflict and that the opponent throws at us” and I think that’s clear to everyone. What you don’t get is that in any group content you get all those condi cleansed. We experienced it, you maybe didn’t but we did. Since players going against one another was never intended, that mechanic got removed.

I agree on the point that we lost condi damage/utility and cc. This still can be fixed, but the [self condi-> condi copy] mechanic is not going to return. Thank god.

So please understand why they made those changes and stop asking for a step back, but instead think about a step forward.

Some of us will never view that as a valid reason for the Mallyx changes for two reasons:

1. The self-condi manipulation playstyle has been playing well in this game for years in the form of corruption necromancers. The old Mallyx was like an improved version of it.

2. The self-condi application rate far exceeded what others classes can remove. In PvE, at least two conditions could be maintained on yourself at any given moment despite cleanses. As for sPvP, conditions are tossed around like candy… the Mallyx skills were always reaching their max potential since every build in the game can apply at least one or two conditions.

Exciton.8942:

The troll unguent fills the bar really fast.
I was playing the old LB/GS power ranger with druid line tonight. Worked great.

But perhaps they will never it though. It doesn’t feel their intended way of playing the spec.

Thanks for the tip. I just noticed i can fill the bar a little by rezzing in pvp

I have been trying to play druid with a Condi build but it has been impossible for me to enter celestial form. Has anyone found a way to fill that blue bar without the staff?

SoulstitchMMO.1396:

I am finding Mallyx even better now, and am using Glint/Mallyx over Glint/Shiro.

I feel the exact opposite.
I find the new one to be worse. it has less access to non-damaging conditions , lower damage and no synergy at all. i even had to drop the corruption trait line and malyx for invocation and shiro, and that was for a condition build…

People are saying that our torment application has improved, but isn’t it worse now?

The only changes affecting our torment are to unyielding anguish and embrace the darkness.

Unyielding anguish use to apply 6 stacks of torment instantly, and after the changes it can only apply 4 stacks on players who refuse to step out of the aoe.

Also the new etb only offers a 3 second longer torment than the old one that could do so much more.

Sarif.1827:

You don’t feel the old version of Mallyx wasn’t massive counter-intuitive to how the rest of combat works across all professions, and how it work with the rest of the legends?

The old Mallyx was an alternative to condition necromancers’ combat wise.

Sarif.1827:

There is nothing wrong with focusing on generating our own conditions.

The condition output of his utilities skills were all reduced by one and his way of generating non-damaging conditions by applying them to himself and spreading them with embrace the darkness was removed.

Sarif.1827:

Has it lost a little flavor Yes, but it’s not completely devoid.

His only “flavor” was getting stronger with each condition on him; He has nothing but a heal that does not scale as well with conditions as it use to.

Sarif.1827:

Mallyx still has the one State-Change, is still the strongest vs Conditions, still provides Resistance (Which personally, I think should be the first Minor Trait, and work outside of Demon Stance), and still causes massive Conditions.

Out of the dozens of revenants I saw last beta, only two or three used Mallyx instead of Shiro/Glint in sPvP. If the other stances were allowed to use resistance, Mallyx would see even less play.

Also, how can he apply massive conditions when the stance only applies a few stacks of confusion and melee ranged torment now? Even zerker warriors have enough condi cleanse to ignore that

Malchior.5732:

BlackDevil.9268:

Hiki.9310:

Malchior.5732:

My Sweet Lily.1952:

@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.

That still doesn’t explain why the empowerment needed to be removed or removing the condi copy on EtD.

I don’t think anything can explain these changes. The original excuse was that there was conflict between Mallyx users and support roles, but the self-application rate of conditions far exceeded what teammates could cleanse. There was also feedback from players that said the self-conditions were bad because they killed them, but this also makes no sense since we have near permanent resistance.

I think the fact it got nerfed/removed is the fact that you could spike-spam conditions. While this is a pretty nice counter to condition builds, it doesn’t really have much counterplay besides… well… not applying conditions or to lure the revenant in a 1v1 to possibly not have him stack up a lot resistance (eventhough in a 1v1 situation with herald as 2nd legend, a revenant could still gain good resistance duration).
Transfering conditions is a very powerful effect. If something like that can be spammed it can become OP very fast. Especially with the amount of conditions being output without even having a condition spec on the enemy team. That’s, however, more of a game issue than an issue that came with the revenant.ds
In it’s current state, I dont see this coming back any soon due that revenant only gets more and more condi pressure on his own. So expect him to be stronger in 1v1’s, but less effective in team fights.

So yes, I can imagine it being nerfed. Removing it is just the easy way to avoid a lot of ‘’QQ mallyx OP’’ threads honestly.

But it didn’t get removed because “Rev OP”. It got removed because it didn’t “work well with groups”.
The counter-play to EtD is CC. Mallyx has no Stun Breaks whatsoever and EtD only gives you a whopping 2s of Resistance.
If he runs Retribution and/or Herald for Stab, then your best bet for countering it is abusing its low radius. Pain Absorption + EtD eats up a lot of Energy too, so he’s either going to swap soon or use nothing but Autos for a while.

You forgot to mention boon removal. If a Mallyx user had enough conditions on them to make etd powerful and got stripped of their resistance, they would be in a really bad spot. They could be easily counted by mesmers, a well timed steal, and especially necromancers.

Malchior.5732:

My Sweet Lily.1952:

@Vennyhedgie Probably because Mallyx’ playstyle was using conditions on you to empower your skills. With the self inflicted conditions you could help yourself reach the cap to get empowered skills. With the empowerment gone, there’s no reason to want condies on yourself because you get no benefit from hurting yourself.

That still doesn’t explain why the empowerment needed to be removed or removing the condi copy on EtD.

I don’t think anything can explain these changes. The original excuse was that there was conflict between Mallyx users and support roles, but the self-application rate of conditions far exceeded what teammates could cleanse. There was also feedback from players that said the self-conditions were bad because they killed them, but this also makes no sense since we have near permanent resistance.

Increase the upkeep cost of embrace the darkness to 10, keep the new pulsing torment, and allow the rest of the demon stance abilities to be transformed while it’s active.

So while embrace the darkness is active:

Empowering Misery – Acquires a 5 second cooldown, no longer has a base heal, and is changed to consume a single condition to regain health before copying it to nearby enemies.

Pain Absorption – Applies blind and weakness to enemies in a 600 radius.

Banish Enchantment –Applies vulnerability and disables an ability that is being casted for 5 seconds.

Unyielding Anguish – Fears foes upon landing and revives downed allies by a small percentage with each tick.

The main goal of this suggestion is for legendary demon stance to regain the ability to apply some of the non-damaging conditions that it lost with the recent changes and make it closer resemble the Mallyx from gw1.

My main gripe with the changes is that Mallyx lost access to all of his non-damaging conditions.

With the old self-condis and embrace the darkness, we could pulse blind, vulnerability, cripple, weakness on our own. Now we don’t have any extra conditions to apply to stop our damaging ones from being cleansed instantly.

Cecilia.5179:

Misguided.5139:

This isn’t GW1 and things are balanced differently. Adding condition transfer to Shiro would be a problem, IMO.

It would have to be lightweight, because a condition transfer on any attack is very powerful. Maybe it would be 1 or 2 conditions on a 5 or 10 second icd, because Impossible Odds is a very expensive upkeep.

If a revenant starts with 100 energy and uses no skills impossible odds will last nine seconds; alternatively, if they switch to shiro from another legend, with 50 energy it will last four seconds.

They can probably make it transfer one condition per strike with a one second interval and it might not be anything overly strong.

DiogoSilva.7089:

I think elite specs are allowed to have new strengths as long as they bring new weaknesses as well (or come at the cost of old strengths).

For example, revenant has limited access to boons and out of combat mobility, while herald has perma swiftness and is entirely designed around boons.

It’s quite possible that we may get an anti-condi elite spec someday, which will eventually come at the cost of not picking Herald.

We already had one; It was called Mallyx and it was killed.

Honestly, the only argument for not having condition transfer on impossible odds was that it would start competing with Mallyx’s embrace the darkness.

Now that Mallyx no longer has condition copy, we might as well place condition transfer on top of impossible odds so that it would closer resemble its gw1 predecessor.

At least this way there will be a way to handle conditions with any legend combination and the Shiro/Glint players will stop complaining.

I think now that mallyx skills can only maintain torment and confusion for a decent duration, a threshold of 3 conditions will be difficult to maintain for the bonus effects.

After reading the feedback towards the mallyx changes I noticed that the players that like the new changes are viewing them from a WvW and PvE perspective: These players talk about using food buffs, torment runes, and other things that don’t exist in sPvP to make the changes work to their advantage.

On the other hand, players like myself that believe that the old mallyx skills, with the exception of UA, were in a perfect state view these changes from the sPvP perspective.

With only one beta weekend left and a mallyx getting a complete revamp at this stage I doubt that all of the changes needed to make him viable all game modes can be rooted out before release.

So here’s a proposal: Just split the skills.

Let those of us who were content with the previous mallyx slot the old versions of his skills (excluding UA) and the others take on the new version if they like.

Now that there is talk of adding a 100% PvE only trait that increases torment damage on non-moving targets I think a split is needed more than ever.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

A few more things:

• I reduced the after-cast of unyielding anguish by 260ms so it should help the responsiveness when you land.
• Embrace the Darkness: Lowered the cast time and after-cast by 400ms and reduced it’s upkeep cost by 1 so it’s at a 7 upkeep cast right now.

I think lowering the upkeep cost was a bad idea. Before this change the only stance that could not achieve the -10 upkeep cost to fully benefit from the trait hardening persistence was the legendary dwarf stance; now there are two legends that can’t.

Dstroya.6705:

Forgive me if this was already suggested, it is a large thread. Why not make the traits that provided resistance on demon skill use, also make it impossible to have conditions removed while under the effects of resistance? If you want to keep condis then keep up resistance, if I want to be cleansed by my team, let resistance fall off.

This idea is great! It’s shocking that this was not considered before reworking the entirety of mallyx into its distasteful new form.

With the exception of unyielding anguish, can we compromise and get the ability to slot either the new or old mallyx skills?

This way, if some players feel that the old skills create conflict with support roles they can decide for themselves to use the new versions.

Could we also can we get some clarification on whether or not the mallyx changes were meant to be nerfs? The reasoning behind the mallyx changes made them sound like they were meant to improve the stance but the actual changes do the opposite.

The new mallyx benefits less from having conditions on him than the old one. At four+ conditions empowering misery heals for less, banish enchantment applies less confusion, unyielding anguish applies less torment, and pain absorption provides him with conditions he can’t do anything with.

Then there is embrace the darkness. Mallyx now lacks access to blind, weakness, cripple, and vulnerability.

These conditions were all self-applicable and capable of being applied to enemies with the old embrace the darkness; they provided a cover for his torment and helped keep mallyx alive.

Please don’t make mallyx a torment bot

I think lowering the upkeep cost of embrace the darkness is a bad idea.

With the glint’s facet of nature and embrace the darkness, revenants could get the -10 upkeep needed for the glint minor’s 400 armor bonus.

Just bring back the old embrace the darkness and the condi pressure it offered.

The one that was designed to get stronger with each condition applied to him.

The one whose skills were conditional and meaningful.

The one that didn’t have the mace auto attack as an elite upkeep skill.

As someone that played nothing but condition revenant in spvp last beta, these Legendary Demon Stance changes were just sad to read.

All that was needed was for unyielding anguish displace once on the first tick and apply conditions on the rest of them; the displacement could have even been changed to be countered by stability.

The conditions applied from enemies and the self-applied conditions were enough to trigger the extra effects of the condition threshold skills and synergized well with the old embrace the darkness.

As for the new embrace the darkness, it has been reduced to a mace auto attack with an upkeep cost; it can no longer pulse bleeds, poison, confusion, burning, blind… The old embrace the darkness provided offense, defense, and control, it was what made having the lack of condition removal on revenant worthwhile.

Also, what’s up with the cool downs? What happened to balance based off of energy consummation management?

Game was so much better in beta…

I love these keep pumping them out please

Now I know why this game has been feeling so slow lately -_-

This sounds like the team fortress 2 capture point game mode minus the lord to kill. Its a fun mix of defending and attacking.

Whenever I get hit by a stun and try to use Roll for Initiative to break it the skill seems to go on a short cool down similar to a daze. For a stun breaker this bug is horrible. If I were to get hit by any stun and try to break it immediately I would be forced to wait a portion of the stun out to use this skill.

Anyone else experiencing this?

I agree wholeheartedly with this the reason terror was added to the game with such a high modifier was to supplement necros condition damage when they only had access to bleed and poison. Now that burning and torment are available and that hybrid builds are now possible with the addition of deathly perception the extra damage is not necessary anymore in my opinion.

Arale.4207:

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Scepter autoattack could’ve been reflected but wouldn’t explain two clones at once.

There are reports of scepter 1 spawning 2 clones actually.

I can confirm this, mesmer scepter auto attacks create two clones.

Laxuar.3504:

i played for 8 month with this computer and i never see this type of bug with phantasm that looks like ghost. After some pach i begin to sse that. If you need screen because you belive that i’m kitten i will put them.

This bug has been around for a long time. The phantoms would summon looking transparent but after getting stealth from any source they would reappear looking like normal clones. I haven’t logged on mesmer for a long time, but it now it looks like phantoms are being summoned looking like clones without getting stealth.

This bug is horrible, whenever I play condition mesmer I cant keep clones on a single target because of this. It must also be a pain for shatter mesmers as well since they cant even mind wrack their desired target.

bobross.5034:

to the OP; I like the suggestions, but lets be clear…the only bug here is on illusionary elasticity, and it’s probably more of a tooltip bug than a real bug. The other stuff, making clones have frenzy…this is a nice idea in theory, but can easily get overpowered, asking for both at once, you are essentially asking for twice or three times the bleeding damage.

you also say that this would make staff worth using…it already is worth using, and as noted in several other threads, is many people’s favorite weapon already. As much as I’d like to see those sorts of changes, I’m not going to kid myself and say that I’m underpowered now, when I really don’t feel that way, when playing. Staff is a mix of defense and offense, and an all around very solid weapon. There should not be an automatic assumption that it can outdamage a greatsword power build, since gs is a purely offensive weapon, and staff has some great defense built in as well.

I think the other point you were trying to make is that a condition build is not viable for mesmer, and this would make it so. I’ll have to disagree there too…while certainly less optimal as a damage dealing build, conditions are still viable.

I disagree with illusionary elasticity simply having a tooltip bug on the sole reason that this trait affects trident clones.

From the wiki
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Winds_of_Chaos
“Illusionary Elasticity does not apply to this skill in terms of clones, though it is supposed to.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Siren%27s_Call
“The tooltip states that the skill bounces 3 times, but in fact only bounces 2 times without Illusionary Elasticity. The clones summoned that cast this are also affected by Illusionary Elasticity.”

As for the viability of staff and condition mesmers as a whole, in all honesty I think its playable but needs quality of life improvements (ie: deceptive evasion summoning clones on our target and a auto attack condition for scepter). As for wanting condition builds to be equal in dps to power builds, my viewpoint is more of maintaining pressure with conditions than having our current inconsistent application.

Sebrent.3625:

I don’t think that makes up for the loss of so much dps each time you inflict 1 stack of low duration vulnerability. There are better ways to support.

The “support” argument also loses water when you talk about running solo.

I believe that the vulnerability is there so that the skill would remain balanced if the bounce trait was working. Conditions would stack too fast if the vulnerability was not there but with the current bug its just a hindrance for pure condition builds.

Nuka Cola.8520:

that would be soooooo juicy on trident but i’d preferred if they removed vulnerability on WoC first.

The trident clones are working with the trait so they have their extra bounce its just all of our land illusions that are bugged with it.

Esorono.1039:

Embolism.8106:

Phira.3970:

Kanto.1659:

Doing that will simply make one Mesmer able to upkeep 20 bleeds on a target. FINALLY decent Condition damage on par with direct damage. But useless if they do so without upping the bleed cap.

Actually, mesmers can maintain 20+ bleed currently with enough precision. But more would be better.

If you’re very lucky with WoC, maintain loads of Duelists, and/or sacrifice CondDmg for Precision perhaps. Exceptional/sub-optimal builds aside you won’t be able to maintain that many Bleeding stacks.

3 greatsword clones with high precision and franken rune-ing bleed duration can maintain between 18-21 bleeds until they break, adding duelist can make it burst up to 25 if you time it right.

I never played pve but in spvp/tpvp there is no franken runes or buffs that can make this bug feel insignificant at the moment.

Also from my testing in spvp max stacking is more or less around 16 when using rabid amulet and precision gear along with 30 points in dueling for crit chance. Also that level of stacking is only in a perfect world where we can maintain 3 greatsword clones on a single target that never cleanses conditions or dodges. Also take into consideration how we most likely cant keep up the amount of clones needed to maintain these stacks without deceptive evasion. With the current deceptive evasion we cant chose what our dodge roll clones will attack so imagine having one to two clones attacking a random AI in all your fights.

In my opinion all stand-alone cool down reduction traits need to be merged with their counter parts to make them worth while as a trait. When I say counter parts I mean traits like greater marks and staff mastery becoming one. This merging of skill reductions and additional benefits have already been established on other classes traits such as Cleansing Conflagration, Honorable Shield. The plain 5% ~ 10% damage bonus should also be merged with other traits since they are so minor in comparison to other traits.

The bug preventing staff clones from befitting from “illusionary elasticity” has been here since beta and is costing staff users about 50%+ of their condition application if they chose to use this trait. This bug becomes even worse if you take into consideration how it should work for the phantasmal disenchanter and mage. This is probably one of the worse bugs this class has yet I never see it being addressed as much as it should be by the player base or ever get a dev comment.

Until the bug is fixed you just have to shuffle your signets while out of combat for them to work.

If they ever add a main hand pistol it should be a condition weapon or at least have a decent length channeled auto attack to use with sharper images.

Bump for viability .