Guild Wars 2

ellesee.8297:

Hello friends!

Vee Wee imposter confirmed.

There’s a lot of whining right now because of recent nerfs, but they’re still good.

castlemanic.3198:

Huygens.4075:

Phantasms attack as soon as you summon them. You hit the button and they pop up and do damage like a weapon skill. At that point they sit there and wait for their cooldowns. You’ve already gotten the “weapon damage” out of them. Now they’re just waiting like you would wait for a weapon cooldown.

At this point you can either wait it out, giving you more sustained DPS but risking them dying and doing nothing else, or you can shatter them for an immediate effect, but have to wait for a potentially longer cooldown (the actual summon).

In PVE you wait because sustained DPS is all that matters. In PVP what matters is killing your opponent. Why would you sit there waiting 10 seconds for Phantasms, potentially giving your opponent time to recover, when Mind Wrack could kill them right now? If you can do suffient burst to someone and control the fight effectively, you actually don’t need much sustained pressure to finish them off.

There may be a downside to shattering, but what’s more important is that it’s a net benefit if you do it properly. If you don’t then that’s on you.

That’s actually a fair point to be honest, but shattering shouldn’t NEED to be a part of the mesmer’s attack pattern.

Strictly speaking nothing needs to be a part of the attack pattern, its just a matter of what works best in a given situation. Anet didn’t force anyone to play shatter. They played shatter because it worked best in their environment. If Phantasms were stronger in PvP everyone would use them and we’d see a bunch of “Why is Anet forcing us to run Phantasms?” threads.

#BelieveInGee.

castlemanic.3198:

Phantasms are a completely different story. each of our phantasm skills are dedicated solely to creating a phantasm. there’s no extra gimmick with them. there’s no extra personal benefit. we’ve simply created a form of damage output that can be destroyed by another opponent. we’ve ultimately created something that can be destroyed before it can even deal damage. Phantasms also have the same downfall as ANY other skill in that they can be blocked by blind, blocking skills and avoided by dodging or evasion mechanics. Phantasms ultimately have a higher risk than any other weapon skill in the game simply because they can be destroyed before they provide any use for the mesmer. phantasms are also our biggest method of sustained damage. and then our shatter mechanic destroys our weapon skills. no other class mechanic actively hampers the weapon skills of their classes. thieves do not lose initiative by using steal, warrior weapon damage is not lowered by the use of their burst skill. but mesmer weapon damage IS hampered and ruined by our shatter skills, or by the occasional breeze as well.

Phantasms attack as soon as you summon them. You hit the button and they pop up and do damage like a weapon skill. At that point they sit there and wait for their cooldowns. You’ve already gotten the “weapon damage” out of them. Now they’re just waiting like you would wait for a weapon cooldown.

At this point you can either wait it out, giving you more sustained DPS but risking them dying and doing nothing else, or you can shatter them for an immediate effect, but have to wait for a potentially longer cooldown (the actual summon).

In PVE you wait because sustained DPS is all that matters. In PVP what matters is killing your opponent. Why would you sit there waiting 10 seconds for Phantasms, potentially giving your opponent time to recover, when Mind Wrack could kill them right now? If you can do suffient burst to someone and control the fight effectively, you actually don’t need much sustained pressure to finish them off.

There may be a downside to shattering, but what’s more important is that it’s a net benefit if you do it properly. If you don’t then that’s on you.

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

I’m going to be that jerk and point out that a lot of the other class mechanics you point out as “free” are in fact not free.

An example?

Life force and adrenaline?

And those are “free” additional class mechanics belonging to necros and warriors. A necro only benefits from using DS. A warrior only benefits from using adrenaline skills.

After DS and Adrenaline skills, the necro and warrior are no worse off than they were before using those skills.

The mesmer on the other hand is worse off for using their shatters. Because their phantasms and clones are gone.

Your point might have merit if clones and phantasms were also linked to the F1-F5 skills. But since they are caused by normal weapon and utility skills, the class mechanic for mesmers leaves us in a worse position than we were before.

A necro with no DS is absolutely in a worse spot than a necro with DS. A warrior with no adrenaline has to build it back up before he can burst again. Their mechanics have a cost and they have to recharge.

The exact same is true of mesmers. The problem is that you seem to think shatters have no benefit for their cost. In fact, shatters allow mesmers to burst, control a fight, and survive damage spikes.

You don’t understand. As a mesmer playing for 3 years, I ignore my F1-F5 skills entirely (except for stomping). That is because pressing one of those buttons is a risk.

Where is the risk of a necro going into DS?

Come on…this can’t be that hard to understand.

I didn’t say it wasn’t a risk. I said you’re incorrect to assume shattering always leaves the Mesmer in a worse position.

There you go. My point is that other professions don’t have to take risks to use their class mechanic. Mesmers almost always have to take a risk to do so.

Shattering can have benefits. However, it always has a downside. That doesn’t suit my playstyle. I don’t like risks.

And to close the loop on this increasingly circular argument, not having a risk involve does not make it “free”.

It pretty much does. If an ability has 0 risk and no penalty for using it, that’s pretty much the definition of free. When you can get something for nothing, that is exactly what “free” means.

Mind you, I’m very happy not shattering. I do not grudge other professions in the least. If I am angry, I am angry with Anet for trying to force Mesmers into shattering. I am perfectly happy without shattering and have been so for 3+ years.

Just going to quote this because it does more damage to your argument than I ever could.

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

I’m going to be that jerk and point out that a lot of the other class mechanics you point out as “free” are in fact not free.

An example?

Life force and adrenaline?

And those are “free” additional class mechanics belonging to necros and warriors. A necro only benefits from using DS. A warrior only benefits from using adrenaline skills.

After DS and Adrenaline skills, the necro and warrior are no worse off than they were before using those skills.

The mesmer on the other hand is worse off for using their shatters. Because their phantasms and clones are gone.

Your point might have merit if clones and phantasms were also linked to the F1-F5 skills. But since they are caused by normal weapon and utility skills, the class mechanic for mesmers leaves us in a worse position than we were before.

A necro with no DS is absolutely in a worse spot than a necro with DS. A warrior with no adrenaline has to build it back up before he can burst again. Their mechanics have a cost and they have to recharge.

The exact same is true of mesmers. The problem is that you seem to think shatters have no benefit for their cost. In fact, shatters allow mesmers to burst, control a fight, and survive damage spikes.

You don’t understand. As a mesmer playing for 3 years, I ignore my F1-F5 skills entirely (except for stomping). That is because pressing one of those buttons is a risk.

Where is the risk of a necro going into DS?

Come on…this can’t be that hard to understand.

I didn’t say it wasn’t a risk. I said you’re incorrect to assume shattering always leaves the Mesmer in a worse position.

There you go. My point is that other professions don’t have to take risks to use their class mechanic. Mesmers almost always have to take a risk to do so.

Shattering can have benefits. However, it always has a downside. That doesn’t suit my playstyle. I don’t like risks.

And to close the loop on this increasingly circular argument, not having a risk involve does not make it “free”.

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

I’m going to be that jerk and point out that a lot of the other class mechanics you point out as “free” are in fact not free.

An example?

Life force and adrenaline?

And those are “free” additional class mechanics belonging to necros and warriors. A necro only benefits from using DS. A warrior only benefits from using adrenaline skills.

After DS and Adrenaline skills, the necro and warrior are no worse off than they were before using those skills.

The mesmer on the other hand is worse off for using their shatters. Because their phantasms and clones are gone.

Your point might have merit if clones and phantasms were also linked to the F1-F5 skills. But since they are caused by normal weapon and utility skills, the class mechanic for mesmers leaves us in a worse position than we were before.

A necro with no DS is absolutely in a worse spot than a necro with DS. A warrior with no adrenaline has to build it back up before he can burst again. Their mechanics have a cost and they have to recharge.

The exact same is true of mesmers. The problem is that you seem to think shatters have no benefit for their cost. In fact, shatters allow mesmers to burst, control a fight, and survive damage spikes.

You don’t understand. As a mesmer playing for 3 years, I ignore my F1-F5 skills entirely (except for stomping). That is because pressing one of those buttons is a risk.

Where is the risk of a necro going into DS?

Come on…this can’t be that hard to understand.

I didn’t say it wasn’t a risk. I said you’re incorrect to assume shattering always leaves the Mesmer in a worse position.

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

I’m going to be that jerk and point out that a lot of the other class mechanics you point out as “free” are in fact not free.

An example?

Life force and adrenaline?

And those are “free” additional class mechanics belonging to necros and warriors. A necro only benefits from using DS. A warrior only benefits from using adrenaline skills.

After DS and Adrenaline skills, the necro and warrior are no worse off than they were before using those skills.

The mesmer on the other hand is worse off for using their shatters. Because their phantasms and clones are gone.

Your point might have merit if clones and phantasms were also linked to the F1-F5 skills. But since they are caused by normal weapon and utility skills, the class mechanic for mesmers leaves us in a worse position than we were before.

A necro with no DS is absolutely in a worse spot than a necro with DS. A warrior with no adrenaline has to build it back up before he can burst again. Their mechanics have a cost and they have to recharge.

The exact same is true of mesmers. The problem is that you seem to think shatters have no benefit for their cost. In fact, shatters allow mesmers to burst, control a fight, and survive damage spikes.

bhagwad.4281:

Huygens.4075:

I’m going to be that jerk and point out that a lot of the other class mechanics you point out as “free” are in fact not free.

An example?

Life force and adrenaline?

I’m going to be that jerk and point out that a lot of the other class mechanics you point out as “free” are in fact not free.

RIP Beta weekend 2 spam meta.

Narcarsis.5739:

A tiger doesn’t lose sleep over the opinion of sheep.

Grrrrrrrrr

VeeWee is love. VeeWee is life.

This would totally screw over D/P and S/P. Why would you ever think this was a good idea?

Excalibur.9748:

massive S/D buffs.

They buffed it so much, they had to nerf it ever patch afterwards until it’s completely dead. We would like for ANET to never have buffed S/D.

Because it became heinously overpowered. And every time it was nerfed people cried that it was completely dead and every time they were wrong.

Even if it is nerfed (which isn’t a guarantee) it will be in a better spot than it was.

Malik.6781:

Enjoy, but trust me, your p/d will be nerfed also. That what happend to my build d/p, build wich is required some skill to use.

Permastealth is a pretty mindless build and all the other d/p builds are getting buffs.

Its also cute the way whenever one of these threads comes up everybody convienently forgets the massive S/D and SoH buffs.

Thief changes are forcing us towards D/P as the only viable weapon set by nerfing what’s really the only remaining strength of the S/D.

Nerfing the evades and saying you want to improve thief survivability through Acrobatics is a bit contradictory given that the tree is based around evades.

Sovereign.1093:

I find this to be the reason why wvw is more appealing than any part of gw2 because of the ultimate manner of team work required compared to any other part of the game, and that it builds the community,

You haven’t seen the Mag/FA/SBI thread…

Hooooooo boy.

playard.6035:

Evalana.5480:

I wouldn’t take it as a compliment – I would take it as more of a ‘no one likes your kitteny attitude’ kinda sorta thing…

7) Maggie is the most loved and cherished one among all. Everyone just plainly likes Maggie for her friendly and cheerful personality, and admires her unmatched skill (at least on certain aspect, certainly hands down the best)

—
I wouldn’t take it as a compliment — a lot of people posted in this thread aren’t even in this match-up. :-/

They’re on to us!

Keep on rollin’.

Having a thief on your team can be beneficial. Having a bunch can be an issue.

Look up either Caed’s D/P or Lady Nag Nag’s S/D. Those are basically the go to builds.

Chaba.5410:

TC, go home. Your “help” for small servers stinks of imperialist snobbery.

Oh dear, the colonials are having a fit again. How tedious.

Lenador.1436:

Huygens.4075:

ykyk.2740:

Huygens.4075:

I’ve been gone for a while, what’s the T2 arbitrary win condition for this week?

Number of times your server downed teq

BOOM carried by pve

I don’t think that was worth an Oh Snap! from Dr. House and does it count when tons of other people guess to the server or team up in overflows? i need answers

You say that like the guesters are an advantage.

ykyk.2740:

Huygens.4075:

I’ve been gone for a while, what’s the T2 arbitrary win condition for this week?

Number of times your server downed teq

BOOM carried by pve

Don’t tell me what to do.

I’ve been gone for a while, what’s the T2 arbitrary win condition for this week?

Think before you post.

Didn’t get nerfed!

Rackhir Tanelorn.9123:

Becka Williams.4978:

I sure am loving this new system. Such variety. TC and fa, TC and sor, tc and CD, tc and Mag, tc and FA again. SO MUCH variety!

I don’t know which ANet hates more…

SoS or Deso?

Vabbi.

Everybody hates Vabbi. Especially Vabbi.

Pinko.2076:

TC – #1 server NA for arguing against things that didn’t exist!

I disagree.

Boom! Existential crisis.

It’s not an official match up thread until someone from SoR shows up like an overly attached ex calling from the bar after downing 7 tequila shots.

Caephire.5238:

WyldKat.4712:

There are five people in a GW2 party. There are five kids. Coincidence?

:O So does Sailor Moon.

5 player parties in Guild Wars 2.

5 – 2 = 3

Halflife 3 confirmed.

Travlane.5948:

Huygens.4075:

Authority.6145:

Would be nice if someone posted changes with S/D, preferably for TPvP.

I listened to Jumper discussing the patch notes on Blu’s stream. It sounded like his build was staying pretty much the same.

the stun break loss is killing the build. calling it now. 1 v 1 u can still kinda get by but anything too big you lose alot of mobility bc ur stun in a certain place. eles/warriors/guardians can all knock u down/back and mesmers pull/push too. so all these things really hurt when u lose your main stunbreak.

Shadow return is still usable while stunned. You can park it 1200 range away and use it to vacate the premises and wait out the stun in safety.

If you want a more tanky/DPS class then go ele.

Authority.6145:

Would be nice if someone posted changes with S/D, preferably for TPvP.

I listened to Jumper discussing the patch notes on Blu’s stream. It sounded like his build was staying pretty much the same.

xTiMeBoMBx.2863:

I hate to be frank about it but I was at E3 and let me tell you ESO is just around the corner, 2014. A single tower fight had 200 people and no skill lag.

If you’re going to bring that up it’s probably best to be completely honest and understand that not a lot of home players are going to have the server infrastructure of E3.

Such an auspicious event it required two match-up threads!

We’re gettin’ the band back together!

Hickeroar.9734:

baseballguy.4865:

SoS just wants to be not Red!!!!!

Red, for some reason, is TC’s favorite place to be. We love it.

I hate being Blue/Green

Its because we’re all communists.

Quaggan came here to kick posterior and chew bubblegum.

And quaggan is all out of bubblegum.

arKRazor.8654:

Ynot.8397:

“With the introduction of Tainted Shackles, we’ll also be adding a new condition to the game: Torment. This condition is designed to play around with movement, one of our fundamental combat mechanics. Enemies under Torment will take damage periodically; as they move, they’ll take even more damage. In looking to expand the condition diversity of thieves and mesmers, we decided to include Torment skills for those two professions as well.” Giving thieves more control in a fight? Good stuff. Just let us necros have it and be done ANet!

So to recap, they reduced the effectiveness of confusion because it ‘punished active play.’ They see no problem however, with punishing simple movement too?

Confusion was pretty ridiculous given how fast it could be stacked on multiple targets.

We still have no idea how much damage torment will do, if it will stack, or even if its single target or aoe.

Condi removal exists :/

Jscull.2514:

Give us what games 10 years ago gave us at LEAST.

Terrible graphics and dial up modems!

Deniara Devious.3948:

bobross.5034:

not at all unfair, the thief is rooted in place and very vulnerable. Even stealthed an observant player will know what’s happening and can hurt/kill the thief. without stealth, thieves wouldnt be able to get stomps in (except for tp stomping).

If you roaming alone and you get downed by the very common dual thief teams, tell me how you are gonna hurt and the kill thief doing that stealth stomp?

Many professions have downed skill #2, which can interrupt just one opponent, under optimal circumstances e.g. warrior and engineer. But that requires them to actually see that opponent to target it. Thus stealth stomp is a guaranteed easy stomp. I know stability would also guarantee a stomp in those cases, but stability is much more rare for a good reason.

And if I see an ally down in the battle field e.g. from enemy siege fire, attack, whatever reason, how am I gonna stop some enemy thief doing the stealth stomp on that ally? Fear is very rare and suggesting that thieves are so squishy that they die from just one AoE is mockery. I see stealth stomps all the time in pretty much every big fight.

And they are a problem as they are by far the most common form of a guaranteed stomp. They key issues here is stealth. Stealth is broken in this game.

Do you really think that if you’re downed in a 2v1 against two thieves you’d be able to win if only they didn’t have stealth? What if you did get your stomp interrupt off? You’re still down and they’re still stomping you.

Stealth is nowhere near a “guaranteed stomp”. CC still works, and if the thief is low so does damage. I’ve even used stealth to prevent stomps dozens of times. There are ways to counter these tactics, but for most people, crying on the forums is easier.

Having played both ele and thief, I cannot think of a situation where I’d rather have stealth stomp over mist stomp, even with the cool down. Hell, black powder stomp is more reliable most of the time.

Le Rooster.8715:

Keeping it classy KH, Keeping it classy.

I don’t get it.

The fact that this thread continued for 3 pages saddens me.

Jayne.9251:

Oh wow, Tony Soprano died.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/story/2013/06/19/james-gandolfini-obit.html

Obligatory “Did he drop any loot?”

http://instantrimshot.com/

Waffler.1257:

I picture Maguuma as Archie Bunker from All in the Family, while TC is definitely Marie Barone from Everybody Loves Raymond. Seriously, try reading some of the TC posts in her voice, it’s spot on.

One of our commanders is basically Ray Romano.