Guild Wars 2

phys.7689:

Jason Segel.2908:

Not VERY long, and this is just analyzed for PVE bosses and champions/dynamic event bosses or whatever.

Why is there a bleed stack limit in PVE?

…..

That is insane, how can you allow condi users to be shoved to the back of the bus and have us deal 65%-76% less DPS, the only reasonable thing to do now is add more health to bosses to compensate for the extra damage conditions will now be doing, and take away the limit on bleed stacks on bosses. Or even possibly bump it up to 50 or 75 stacks? or possibly make poison/burning stack? that would go a long way in making us condi builds happy.

They actually did explain the reasoning, evaluating every single dmg tick per second per player is taxing on the server. When spread over a great many people at once.

Thats an overworld problem, comparing it to people in dungeons, sorry but to be honest you should not be doing as much damage as somebody with every single stat dedicated to dmg, in fact you are doing better than you should be imo, because while they have 3 dmg stats, you have 1-2 and can get pretty competitive numbers

Not to mention your formulas assume constant DPS over 10 minutes from DPS players which is not accurate, they have to dodge, move, use defensive skills etc. (and will have to do this more if they make AI better) in which case their dps drops to extremely low, while condition players remains high.

Condition damage is not suppose to do burst dmg like direct damage, its supposed to be constant pressure and attrition, i would say in dungeons and small group play it is in fact over performing. And keep in mind it only requires 1-2 stats to get full benefit.

In large scale pve, they may have to come up with something, but i dont really now how the server deals with the data, so i dont know the solution, just dealing with what they said awhile back.

The reason I quit playing Guild Wars 2 is actually close to the exact same reason I quit SWTOR. They added in too many stuns in SWTOR just like the ranger can stun the EFF out of people in GW2 in a 1 v 1 and win easily, not to mention other tanky classes knocking people down. So the people who are the tanky class can kill you everytime or live forever. GW2 had more stun breaks and dodge yes.

No one ever said condition damage is supposed to be burst damage. But in scenarios where there is mass condition removal by multiple enemy players, the conditions are useless. The conditions need to be there for a little while before they even start to really do anything. As someone who played a lot in free tournaments and also did paid tournaments(maybe like 20?) and I had friends who were at one point ranked number 1 in paids and on the number one team, you do not know what you are talking about.

High competitive play, low competitive play, PVE condition damage does 65% to 75% less overall avg DPS than direct damage. PVE is flat out horrible for condition damage. In events where there are 30 + people and 10 people are on condition damage that means basically 8 of those people are doing on average 100 to 300 DPS with the default scepter swing attack. PVE it is horrible to do condition damage for group events and most teams didn’t want you there.

Not to mention necromancer minion AI is horrible. The DPS you could do as a necromancer would far surpass any other class if minions worked correctly. I assume 2 years later they still don’t.

The stats I talk about are tried and true in my dealing as playing 80% as a necromancer. Maybe 400+ hours of game play. Many different builds. Direct damage if far superior as a necromancer for the majority of anything you are playing. It is near impossible to keep conditions on good players in pvp. Yes you can spread them with corruption but the mass condi removal + passive condi removal + runes +sigils + other traits that remove condi + abilities make conditions not viable. Don’t get me wrong I used conditions and sometimes they can help out, but using a well build and building a necromancer for DPS + POWER + CRIT is far superior for team play as it is burst.

Did they ever fix this?? it has been awhile since I played due to these problems. I legit would play again if anyone can let me know the state of Necormancer viability for Condi damage. thank you!

Ovi.5473:

Heyyy Brah.

Wassamadderyou?

just glad they got rid of the elitism that was ruining this game. nothing is a matter with me, i am very happy and pleased!

#poundtowncoorslight

I dun knew they wuz gunna get rid of paids. I am so happy now I can finally stop seeing Satire Kony 2013 always sayign stupid stuff on da forums.

I am sure all the paid players are extremely upset, but you’re in the minority and you aer what ruins this game for the rest of us who like to play casually.

Coors light.

Finally the game returns to let the masses have fun, instead of tailoring to the “elitist” people who ruined the game to begin with by making everyone who wanted to do paids quit.

There just isn’t that many people who no life in this game for pvp to stay viable with paid tournaments, and that’s why they got rid of them.

People don’t have time to waste getting tickets and losing a ton. There is no saying “get better” because not every player can get better. 80/20 rule applies here. 80% of the wins are from 20% of the Coors light factory. ya dig?

nastyjman.8207:

I’m curious what the top players have for their keybinds. I want to become more efficient in playing the game by tweaking my keybindings.

Are you kidding me?

The competitive Esport MMO’s have upwards of 30 keybinds. If you can’t handle 1 through 0, f1 f 2 f 3 f 4(14 keybinds), then I really don’t know what to say to you.

Try playing a game that makes you deal with with 1 through =, Shift + 1 through =, Alt + 1 through =, and Crtl + 1 through =…. and maybe people will take you seriously

Scrag.8765:

Jason Segel.2908:

3 quick questions

1. Do you like having no dedicated healers?

2. Do you wish you could play a dedicated healer(because that’s your play style)?

3. Do you feel the game achieved balance by taking out dedicated healers?

Personally, my play style in every MMO I ever played (SWG, SWTOR, Warhammer) was dedicated healer/some damage.

SWTOR is free to play now, see you there soon <3

1.) I Like having dedicated healers. I enjoy playing the class. This game is limited in its just a DPS vs DPS game. I get bored only playing a damage dealer.
2.) Yes I wish I could play a healer. But as ive found out, even though playing a gimped healer GREATLY helps my team and we win much more, I get no points in sPVP or WvW. So whats the point.
3.) The game isnt balance, everyone knows that, so the obvious answer is no.

Anet are very inexperienced MMO developers. We need class diversity cause not everyone likes to play DPS all the time like you – (Anet Devs). Having no tanks, no healers, no support and only DPS only serves to have less players in the game, makes pvp and pve more boring cause I cant switch to different roles, and balance has NOT been achieved.

MMO Experiment = Failed.

This game was designed ground up for DPS playing casuals. Thats why there is no gear progression, so casuals who join in once a week dont have to worry about some guy having a piece of gear a little higher than theres.

Problem is in any MMO, is if there isnt gear, nobody will show. sPVP is fun for awhile, but it gets old fast.

This is a very good answer.

I DO NOT LIKE PLAYING DPS.

and making a bunker/tank with is boring to me.

I like playing healer, and you summed it up good.

Apollo.7389:

So I will make this as nice as possible.

I DO NOT think NA is better than EU and vice versa. So get that out of your head.

I was able to talk to some people on the EU servers and found out that Paids pop 2x-3x more. Based on it popping 3 times more that means you have 3 times the people, which also means you have 3 times the chances to have better and worse teams.

AGAIN, I don’t think EU is better than NA and vice versa.

On NA servers we have a few (3-4) good teams and 1-2 great teams. And then they que almost every night. We also have a couple random teams testing the paids out. First it does not end well for them and second it is usually the same teams winning paids. They go back and forth but in general the 2 or so best teams share 1 place. I hope that made sense…Anyways

Being that we are always facing the same teams every night its like dedicated practice teams. Here comes the CONTROVERSIAL part so hold on to something.

Being that we are always practicing against better players, the good players that haven’t quit the game yet, would that make us better players/teams?

This isn’t an argument more of an invitation to EU players to cross over the sea of shining seas to NA. It would be a lot of fun to practice vs the best of EU and see where we stand.

Also it would mean we would have more paids popping which everyone can appreciate. Lastly I don’t think you would have lag issue I have several buddy’s from Europe and Asia that are on the NA server and they never complain about lag. One less reason not to come. And you can go back to EU a week later.

I apologize to anyone I may have offended as it was not my intention. I just want to be the best team player as I can and be able to do paids more. We need more peeps over on NA.

I am betting this can easily be figured out. If you take the top teams and compare how many different team compositions/player skills of teams fighting in NA, vs those in EU it will most likely skew towards EU being more well rounded.

If it is true to what you say of there being 3 to 4 times as many teams playing in EU, that means the people who win in EU are most likely playing at a higher level that cannot be achieved on NA.

It’s simple really. Playing against a variety 3 to 4 times larger than NA means EU is going to be better. Figure in the fact that EU teams have to fight REALLY GOOD TEAMS more often than NA just to get a ton of QP, and that also says something.

I only have ever played on NA and I live in USA.

I am just not being biased.

3 quick questions

1. Do you like having no dedicated healers?

2. Do you wish you could play a dedicated healer(because that’s your play style)?

3. Do you feel the game achieved balance by taking out dedicated healers?

Personally, my play style in every MMO I ever played (SWG, SWTOR, Warhammer) was dedicated healer/some damage.

SWTOR is free to play now, see you there soon <3

Khenzy.9348:

I’ve been hearing a lot about these Ranger builds as of late. I remember a month or so ago I fought one that was nigh unkillable. He used greatsword, and a pig with the invisibility item that thieves steal from other thieves with pretty high regen uptime and the always great Troll ungüent, but I don’t think that was the most optimal build. This is for sPvP specifically, WvW is a different beast.

Thanks in advance!

You run toughness trait line all 30 points, and i think 20 in the traitline with power, and 20 in the traitline with precision in it..

Your best tank runs shortbow (slot 3 evade), and sword + dagger off hand(slot 2 3 4 are all evades)

dodge = using your endurance at the cost of 50% per dodge.

evades = using a skill that says “evade” but acts like a dodge, without using your endurance at all. most skills that evade are as long as a dodge, which can help get out of a lot of damage. thus when you evade with shortbow slot 3, you deal damage while taking no damage durin the animation of the attack. same thing for dagger off hand slot 2 3 4.

you can use toughness runes, or try a healing set up, power runes, precision runes whatever. the dodges themselves make you avoid all damage + evades avoid all damage. that in itself is tanky, and you can also run amulet of the soldier for toughness and extra health. it works pretty good.

for sigils run endurance on shortbow and dagger off hand, then use the sigil that stacks 25 stacks of power or healing or precision, whatever you want basically.

utilities are, slot 6 = troll ugnent, slots 7 8 9 = lightning reflexes, the signnet that takes conditions off you every 10 seconds, and the other one i forget what its called, the picture is of a bear, i think its called save me ro something.

elite skills should probably be rampage as one, 26+ seconds of stability once you are traited the right way.

the traits you can kind of choose how you want to play, but if you wanna go tankier, choose the one that pets remove conditions from you periodically, whcih i think its every 3 seconds it takes a condition. make it so when you roll you get protection and remove poison(helps because when poisoined you heal 33% less).

I use for pets, the birds, juvenile hawk, and the eagle i believe. they deal the highest damage still believe and while you are dodging/evading all your enemies attacks your pet is hitting them which is nice.

Linnes.2678:

Honestly, as the title says. It’s ridiculous how you can physically see and target your enemy (or be targeted) in pvp while they (you) are in stealth. It completely defeats the purpose of being HIDDEN, it requires absolutely no skill to call a target. Last night I went into spvp with some buddies for 1v1’s on my mesmer. All of a sudden I kept getting hit (like, skill-targeted, not random hits) while using Decoy (grants 3 seconds of stealth and leaves a clone) and in the elite veil skill (4 seconds of stealth to your entire team). I was seriously confused as to how they could possibly be doing this until one of my friends said that “oh they made it so you can see someone in stealth by call-targeting them.” After I heard this I was livid. It completely breaks classes (or many of their skills) that rely on stealth to get an edge. Why demolish this edge? Stealth is NOT overpowered, thieves and mesmers are NOT overpowered, if you have the skill to play one, you’re going to win, if not, you’re going to lose, the same can be said of any class.

Now I’m not saying to remove this, by all means it is useful, however as soon as an enemy enters stealth the Call Target symbol and ability to target them should be removed until either they exit stealth or until they are tagged again. It is a completely unfair element in spvp and needs to be fixed.

This only happens when in a group. You got trolled by your friends, or neither of you know it only happens in a group.

daydream.2938:

Correct me if im wrong. But arent necromancers considered more valuble in the current meta than warriors?

They are probably more valued in most settings, unless your doing spvp where people just zerg zerg zerg.

XiL.4318:

daydream.2938:

Correct me if im wrong. But arent necromancers considered more valuble in the current meta than warriors?

A lack of competitive warriors makes that impossible to say. Meta is also a matter of perspective and tends to close the box on mastery development. Warrior however, has the tools to turn the circle on the map the color of their armor both offensively and defensively. In this type of PvP that is all that really matters.

Exactly. I wish more people would look at how viable a class is vs another classes viability. Necormancer only has one viable build in paids, and its a cookie cutter condi/power/crit build. In other games you can play tank/bunker, dps, mixed, healer mixed with dps, healer/bunker and whatever for most classes.

But necro only honestly has one good build in paids.

Avigrus.2871:

Ascii.9726:

But don’t worry guys, Mesmer illusions engage 0.25 seconds now!

Exactly!!!

I also have a level 80 Mesmer, but you can see how A-net prioritises every other class ahead of the Necro because of the number of players playing that class.

The Phantasm issue was sorted in what? 1 week? Necro pet issue has been around since Beta – really think about how woeful this is.

I’m sure Thieves will get buffed again next patch as well.

The whole reason i rolled the Mesmer was because the Necro issues…. the classes are like night and day when it comes to WvW.

I rolled mesmer as well! 700 + games on necromancer and close to 90% games played as necormancer, and i finally gave up, rolled a mesmer, and never looked back. mesmer is wayyy much more fun than a broken class.

Rannulf.9417:

I don’t have none since necros mostly go untouch without the core problems being fix, the last patch fixed some stuff but not the major problems we have, i will expect the same. Not getting my hopes up.

None of the devs play necro. No fixes will happen. Minion AI game breaking since day one. Literally crashing my game at random times.

Ascii.9726:

I’ve posted this before but seen as ANet are reading this particular bug thread heres a quick video i took alittle awhile ago showing pretty much the exact flaws in minion AI:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzuf1vcskmE

My first hit on boss is at 0:00, Bone Fiend doesn’t engage till 0:14 and Shadow Fiend doesn’t engage at all.

But don’t worry guys, Mesmer illusions engage 0.25 seconds now!

Bone fiend only engaged cuz he gothit with an aoe it looks like. other minions only fought cuz of aoe. sometimes they are glitched and are invulnerable and dont fight as well.

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Leaderboards-for-Qualifying-Points/first#post1131163

i would like to think everyone who has helped me on this journey

Q who (that is his name) best necro NA (probably the world)

“Thank you Kryshade for talking me into playing this game when I had absolutely zero interest in it until you pressured me into playing. I love you forever even if you haven’t been able to play in like a month, but as soon as you come back I’m kicking out someone so you can play with us again”

my 100b warrior since day 3 of the game

my staff ele (when i used to like him)

silare (hes gone now but i await his return)

that french guy for easy wins (when hes on my team and the other team)

Skovos.6509 my new D/D tag team roaming partner aka best player NA AKA the D/D originator.

Davinchi my new go all out or sat will yell at me never scared Guard

i forgot our rangers name he hasnt played in 1 week but when he was here we lost only 1 game in 1 week so him also.

edit i want to think ZZYZX for teaching me to be nice. (i used to win everygame but decided to learn to throw some games to give ppl confidence) thank u ZZYZX for never quitting (like others when they lose) u may have not earned those wins but u sure did deserve them bro.

edit. Raytek for reading and replying to all my forum posts

and thank you to ANVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ROCKKKKKKKKKKKKKK for inspiring me to play this game hard mode style.

to ANET forum mods for only infracting me but not suspending me ty (i do notice the warnings and i try to be better)

So this is you quitting?

Or should I say stop bragging?

<3

Zzyzx.8906:

Shout out to myself for not losing to Sataars team in paids since 2011.

Shout out to A.net for nerfing macros, thus leaving Sataar virtually unable to play this game.

True story.

Poplolita.2638:

Jason Segel.2908:

Poplolita.2638:

Jason Segel.2908:

Vayra.3290:

Khyras.8021:

Vayra.3290:

Khyras.8021:

Balancing the game 5vs5 is a joke imo there are too many possible combinations with 8 classes and they all need to be balanced to call a game “5vs5 balanced”.
You need to balance the game based on 1vs1 principle ( or get near as possible to that goal) and when you do that game is balanced in every possible scenario ( 5vs5,2vs2,3vs3 etc) and in every possible game mode.
Balancing this game on 1vs1 principle is even more important here than in other MMOs because there is no holy trinity implemented and you need to rely more on yourself than on other people ( most fights there is no one to heal you, soak up damage for you or remove debuffs for you).

That’s just laughably wrong. 1v1 fights are completely different from team fights. In 1v1 a support build would be completely useless, while in a 5v5 it could be really strong.
Or take an example of something that is strong 1v1, but not worth the slot in 5v5: Moa. This skill is a ridiculously strong ability 1v1, but you would never take it if you were planning on a team fight. Why? Because the other elite (which is not nearly as strong 1v1) is so much better for a team fight.
Or take a more aoe-focused class. If they were to be balanced 1v1 they would either need to have their aoe be as strong as other classes’ single target (if they are squishy), or they would need to be significantly more durable than other dps builds. Either way they become extremely powerful in group fights since they can take on their natural counter (st burst builds) due to the 1v1 balance aspect.

1v1 balance is completely different from 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 or 20v20. The skills that make a difference at those team sizes can easily be worthless in 1v1 or have to be massively buffed to make a class viable for 1v1 and thus screwing up the team fights.

For a game that primarily revolves around team fights (5v5, 8v8), that is where the balance must lie, not in 1v1.

There are AoE focused classes? All classes have ( or should have ) AoE options and specs and single target options and specs there are no AoE focused classes afaik.
What support builds are you talking about? Game is dominated by bunkers and bursters.Give me one build that is commonly used atm and is support only ( meaning he cant burst and cant survive for a longer period of time when focused like bunkers can but provides excellent support for his team mates).
Your example of Moa vs other mesmer elite is a joke, “Moa is strong but the other one is stronger” its like asking a person would you rather be shot in the head or hanged.Moa is far from unusable in team fights as far as i know.Can someone in your team dispel MoA for you as to make MoA unusable in group fight?You MoA an enemy then your team bursts him down id say that is pretty strong.
There are far more variables to balance in a 5vs5 with 8 classes available to call the game 5vs5 balanced, then there are in1vs1 balanced game, and people who say 5vs5 balance or balance around game mode is the way to go make me laugh .

I’m not going to write an essay on game balance to explain how you are wrong. Suffice it to say that if ANet balanced for 1v1 tPvP balance would be far, far worse than it is now.

So you are here just to read what everyone says, then offer NO helpful advice because “you are not going to take the time to explain how someone is wrong”

Instead of trying to focus on why everyone is wrong and you are right(probably not the case anyways because everyone is wrong at some point) why don’t you try being helpful.

Sometime, I feel you should just stop posting…

0/10 for helpfulness.

Good thing I am not here to listen to people who tell me to stop posting. Otherwise I would listen to you, and just let the game stay imbalanced.

{Otherwise I would listen to you, and just let the game stay imbalanced}

This kind of assumption proves me two things. One, you didn’t read my posts. Two, for someone calling other people trolls, or 0/10… I think it’s time for you to look yourself into the mirror. Seriously…

What do I do after I look at myself in the mirror? Does that suddenly make me forget everything I ever learned in life and side with you? If you think that will happen you’re going to be disappointed.

tehdirtyfivethirty.3507:

I mastered Deathshroud 3 months ago. I have since moved on to a variety of differing green pastures and have been much more satisfied with my necromancer once I got out of that Soul Reaping pigeon-hole.

yupppp. and I am learning mesmer/ranger instead of wasting more time trying to achieve better DPS with a necromancer(which cant happen)

JonPeters.5630:

Keep in mind that some professions are harder to master than others. I believe Necro is the hardest, opinions may vary, but just keep this in mind. No we arent ignoring Necro, but once people start mastering DS, I’m afraid of how strong Necro will be. Give it some time for the average player to learn these things. For example early on in LOL master yi was dominant until people learned how to counter him.

I do believe when you say

“but once people start mastering DS, I’m afraid of how strong Necro will be. "

That you are quite incorrect, not only from 3 months ago when you posted this, but from the release of the game onwards. Many others agree as well.

Vayra.3290:

Jason Segel.2908:

Vayra.3290:

Khyras.8021:

Vayra.3290:

Khyras.8021:

Balancing the game 5vs5 is a joke imo there are too many possible combinations with 8 classes and they all need to be balanced to call a game “5vs5 balanced”.
You need to balance the game based on 1vs1 principle ( or get near as possible to that goal) and when you do that game is balanced in every possible scenario ( 5vs5,2vs2,3vs3 etc) and in every possible game mode.
Balancing this game on 1vs1 principle is even more important here than in other MMOs because there is no holy trinity implemented and you need to rely more on yourself than on other people ( most fights there is no one to heal you, soak up damage for you or remove debuffs for you).

That’s just laughably wrong. 1v1 fights are completely different from team fights. In 1v1 a support build would be completely useless, while in a 5v5 it could be really strong.
Or take an example of something that is strong 1v1, but not worth the slot in 5v5: Moa. This skill is a ridiculously strong ability 1v1, but you would never take it if you were planning on a team fight. Why? Because the other elite (which is not nearly as strong 1v1) is so much better for a team fight.
Or take a more aoe-focused class. If they were to be balanced 1v1 they would either need to have their aoe be as strong as other classes’ single target (if they are squishy), or they would need to be significantly more durable than other dps builds. Either way they become extremely powerful in group fights since they can take on their natural counter (st burst builds) due to the 1v1 balance aspect.

1v1 balance is completely different from 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 or 20v20. The skills that make a difference at those team sizes can easily be worthless in 1v1 or have to be massively buffed to make a class viable for 1v1 and thus screwing up the team fights.

For a game that primarily revolves around team fights (5v5, 8v8), that is where the balance must lie, not in 1v1.

There are AoE focused classes? All classes have ( or should have ) AoE options and specs and single target options and specs there are no AoE focused classes afaik.
What support builds are you talking about? Game is dominated by bunkers and bursters.Give me one build that is commonly used atm and is support only ( meaning he cant burst and cant survive for a longer period of time when focused like bunkers can but provides excellent support for his team mates).
Your example of Moa vs other mesmer elite is a joke, “Moa is strong but the other one is stronger” its like asking a person would you rather be shot in the head or hanged.Moa is far from unusable in team fights as far as i know.Can someone in your team dispel MoA for you as to make MoA unusable in group fight?You MoA an enemy then your team bursts him down id say that is pretty strong.
There are far more variables to balance in a 5vs5 with 8 classes available to call the game 5vs5 balanced, then there are in1vs1 balanced game, and people who say 5vs5 balance or balance around game mode is the way to go make me laugh .

I’m not going to write an essay on game balance to explain how you are wrong. Suffice it to say that if ANet balanced for 1v1 tPvP balance would be far, far worse than it is now.

So you are here just to read what everyone says, then offer NO helpful advice because “you are not going to take the time to explain how someone is wrong”

Instead of trying to focus on why everyone is wrong and you are right(probably not the case anyways because everyone is wrong at some point) why don’t you try being helpful.

I already explained it once, he didn’t accept it. I could write a much more comprehensive explanation, but I’m fairly sure it will be dismissed anyway. I’m on vacation and have better things to do

All you explained is what I already said, then you try to take credit for it…. You could write much more IF I WROTE MORE FOR YOU TO COPY OFF OF AND PARAPHRASE.

But even though you are on vacation, that doesn’t mean you can’t spend 3 minutes to slam out like 400 ish words Hasn’t stopped you from coming back on the forums, some vacation!

How am I dismissing what you say, when you are paraphrasing what I said?

Poplolita.2638:

Jason Segel.2908:

Vayra.3290:

Khyras.8021:

Vayra.3290:

Khyras.8021:

Balancing the game 5vs5 is a joke imo there are too many possible combinations with 8 classes and they all need to be balanced to call a game “5vs5 balanced”.
You need to balance the game based on 1vs1 principle ( or get near as possible to that goal) and when you do that game is balanced in every possible scenario ( 5vs5,2vs2,3vs3 etc) and in every possible game mode.
Balancing this game on 1vs1 principle is even more important here than in other MMOs because there is no holy trinity implemented and you need to rely more on yourself than on other people ( most fights there is no one to heal you, soak up damage for you or remove debuffs for you).

That’s just laughably wrong. 1v1 fights are completely different from team fights. In 1v1 a support build would be completely useless, while in a 5v5 it could be really strong.
Or take an example of something that is strong 1v1, but not worth the slot in 5v5: Moa. This skill is a ridiculously strong ability 1v1, but you would never take it if you were planning on a team fight. Why? Because the other elite (which is not nearly as strong 1v1) is so much better for a team fight.
Or take a more aoe-focused class. If they were to be balanced 1v1 they would either need to have their aoe be as strong as other classes’ single target (if they are squishy), or they would need to be significantly more durable than other dps builds. Either way they become extremely powerful in group fights since they can take on their natural counter (st burst builds) due to the 1v1 balance aspect.

1v1 balance is completely different from 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 or 20v20. The skills that make a difference at those team sizes can easily be worthless in 1v1 or have to be massively buffed to make a class viable for 1v1 and thus screwing up the team fights.

For a game that primarily revolves around team fights (5v5, 8v8), that is where the balance must lie, not in 1v1.

There are AoE focused classes? All classes have ( or should have ) AoE options and specs and single target options and specs there are no AoE focused classes afaik.
What support builds are you talking about? Game is dominated by bunkers and bursters.Give me one build that is commonly used atm and is support only ( meaning he cant burst and cant survive for a longer period of time when focused like bunkers can but provides excellent support for his team mates).
Your example of Moa vs other mesmer elite is a joke, “Moa is strong but the other one is stronger” its like asking a person would you rather be shot in the head or hanged.Moa is far from unusable in team fights as far as i know.Can someone in your team dispel MoA for you as to make MoA unusable in group fight?You MoA an enemy then your team bursts him down id say that is pretty strong.
There are far more variables to balance in a 5vs5 with 8 classes available to call the game 5vs5 balanced, then there are in1vs1 balanced game, and people who say 5vs5 balance or balance around game mode is the way to go make me laugh .

I’m not going to write an essay on game balance to explain how you are wrong. Suffice it to say that if ANet balanced for 1v1 tPvP balance would be far, far worse than it is now.

So you are here just to read what everyone says, then offer NO helpful advice because “you are not going to take the time to explain how someone is wrong”

Instead of trying to focus on why everyone is wrong and you are right(probably not the case anyways because everyone is wrong at some point) why don’t you try being helpful.

Sometime, I feel you should just stop posting…

0/10 for helpfulness.

Good thing I am not here to listen to people who tell me to stop posting. Otherwise I would listen to you, and just let the game stay imbalanced.

Fellknight.4820:

nerva.7940:

main problem is stealth uptime. CD’s are straight up too low and stealth lasts too long. stealth is so long that u actually cant always see the thief coming. stealth is so long that if the thief messes up, he can easily disappear until all CD’s reset. no risk for generally high reward. anyway, it’s the same crap we’ve been saying since beta.

To quote Penny Arcade. “So the next time you see player’s crying on the forum for some game element to be nerfed, wait a few weeks and see what happens. Did the development team actually have to go in a change something with a patch. OR did the player’s move on and demand some different element be nerfed…If it’s the former the players were probably right and something really was broken”

We’ve waited months!

So because you used a quote from someone else which is anecdotal evidence, that means you are 100% correct?

I guess upgrade that logic next time! Because it doesn’t exist in your reasoning!

MindlessRuff.1948:

Still, I think many people undervalue necros. If they are left unchecked they can completely destroy a team from range with wells if you coordinate CCs with your team. Sometimes they even become my prime target to disrupt over thieves when fighting over mid on all three maps. And no I am not just talking out of my kitten thank you very much.

I also play a trap ranger, and honestly those traps with a really low cooldown are wayyy better than wells. I feel so underpowered on my necro in team fights(even specced as a team fight build) Because I know the rangers traps are just overall better, no waiting 36 seconds(traited) for wells to come back, 12 seconds 16 seconds and 20 seconds for ranger traps. And if you do a leap finisher in the fire trap it gives you a fire shield which applies burning every second for 5 seconds.

Vayra.3290:

Khyras.8021:

Vayra.3290:

Khyras.8021:

Balancing the game 5vs5 is a joke imo there are too many possible combinations with 8 classes and they all need to be balanced to call a game “5vs5 balanced”.
You need to balance the game based on 1vs1 principle ( or get near as possible to that goal) and when you do that game is balanced in every possible scenario ( 5vs5,2vs2,3vs3 etc) and in every possible game mode.
Balancing this game on 1vs1 principle is even more important here than in other MMOs because there is no holy trinity implemented and you need to rely more on yourself than on other people ( most fights there is no one to heal you, soak up damage for you or remove debuffs for you).

That’s just laughably wrong. 1v1 fights are completely different from team fights. In 1v1 a support build would be completely useless, while in a 5v5 it could be really strong.
Or take an example of something that is strong 1v1, but not worth the slot in 5v5: Moa. This skill is a ridiculously strong ability 1v1, but you would never take it if you were planning on a team fight. Why? Because the other elite (which is not nearly as strong 1v1) is so much better for a team fight.
Or take a more aoe-focused class. If they were to be balanced 1v1 they would either need to have their aoe be as strong as other classes’ single target (if they are squishy), or they would need to be significantly more durable than other dps builds. Either way they become extremely powerful in group fights since they can take on their natural counter (st burst builds) due to the 1v1 balance aspect.

1v1 balance is completely different from 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 or 20v20. The skills that make a difference at those team sizes can easily be worthless in 1v1 or have to be massively buffed to make a class viable for 1v1 and thus screwing up the team fights.

For a game that primarily revolves around team fights (5v5, 8v8), that is where the balance must lie, not in 1v1.

There are AoE focused classes? All classes have ( or should have ) AoE options and specs and single target options and specs there are no AoE focused classes afaik.
What support builds are you talking about? Game is dominated by bunkers and bursters.Give me one build that is commonly used atm and is support only ( meaning he cant burst and cant survive for a longer period of time when focused like bunkers can but provides excellent support for his team mates).
Your example of Moa vs other mesmer elite is a joke, “Moa is strong but the other one is stronger” its like asking a person would you rather be shot in the head or hanged.Moa is far from unusable in team fights as far as i know.Can someone in your team dispel MoA for you as to make MoA unusable in group fight?You MoA an enemy then your team bursts him down id say that is pretty strong.
There are far more variables to balance in a 5vs5 with 8 classes available to call the game 5vs5 balanced, then there are in1vs1 balanced game, and people who say 5vs5 balance or balance around game mode is the way to go make me laugh .

I’m not going to write an essay on game balance to explain how you are wrong. Suffice it to say that if ANet balanced for 1v1 tPvP balance would be far, far worse than it is now.

So you are here just to read what everyone says, then offer NO helpful advice because “you are not going to take the time to explain how someone is wrong”

Instead of trying to focus on why everyone is wrong and you are right(probably not the case anyways because everyone is wrong at some point) why don’t you try being helpful.

Kaede.9314:

I was looking for some, but I wasn’t sure which gave off light, and which just had a fire animation.

peacemaker looks pretty sweet.

And I hope you realize that 153 tournaments won = 3 maps I won on = 153 * 3 = 459 games played vs my spvp games played of 700 something. + the rounds where We made it to the last map would be like another 100 + games so 549 tpvp games vs my spvp games of 700. I guess I don’t have any expereicne yet you tell me nothing of yours and just troll me.

0/10 again gg.

Wooyadeen.6491:

Jason Segel.2908:

Wooyadeen.6491:

Jason Segel.2908:

Rolyate.6753:

I think you’ve gotten confused with the principle of balancing around 5v5.

How about you explain to me the principle of balancing around 5v5 then?

If you just try play tPvP (real one 5v5 team match) you gona figure it by yourself.

@Anet:

Please we need sPvP and tPvP forum, there is alot ppl who wanna discuss about tPvP without tPvP expirience.

ingame solution:

Lock tPvP for rank <15.

Like usual, another person who tries to marginalize my experience because they don’t want to hear anyone else’s opinions or listen to facts.

99% games won in tournies as necromancer, 88% games played as necromancer overall.

You didn’t explain anything, afraid of others ridiculing your amazing-ness?

/sarcasm.

Ohh i see now, 200 Tournament played…. so expirienced…. Thats around 5-6 ranks earned in tPvP.

In my book (with your stats), you r ready to join tPvP for the first time. Not to talk about it, but to see it for the first time.

Jason Segel.2908:

Care to explain what happens when 3 dps ele’s, a guardian, and a thief roamer are fighting against 3 dps necromancers, a guardian, and a thief roamer?

Here’s a hint, team with ele’s will win everytime.

Balance =/=

It depends on a lot more things , atm you can not realize that (lack of tpvp expirience).

I will paste this again since you literally are resorting to being a 7 year old kid who just tries to be-little people (why I have no idea but you are extremely un-helpful and are not providing anything that helps at all)

"""Like usual, another person who tries to marginalize my experience because they don’t want to hear anyone else’s opinions or listen to facts.

99% games won in tournies as necromancer, 88% games played as necromancer overall.

You didn’t explain anything, afraid of others ridiculing your amazing-ness?

/sarcasm."""

So don’t flame me on my own thread, just because you can’t come up with more than “It depends on a lot more things , atm you can not realize that (lack of tpvp expirience).” doesn’t mean you have to rage at me for how you lack the necessary brain power to form intelligent/thoughtful/good insight on pvp issues.

Like kid, you have to be a kid to have this low of a level of reasoning. Do yourself a favor and stop, you aren’t proving anything and your dedication to trying to troll me is 0/10 at best.

Rieselle.5079:

Jason Segel.2908:

Care to explain what happens when 3 dps ele’s, a guardian, and a thief roamer are fighting against 3 dps necromancers, a guardian, and a thief roamer?

Here’s a hint, team with ele’s will win everytime.

Balance =/=

No :P

(But since I’m not stooping to your level, here’s a more serious answer.)

I don’t see how your example is relevant.

Hypothetically, perhaps your 3 Necro team will build for boon removal and conditions instead of raw damage. Since Ele’s are fairly boon-reliant, this could mean that the Necro team wins.

But so what? What does any of this prove? I imagine your point is that, Necros are inferior to Ele’s in DPS.

But the point of “balancing for a team” means not all classes need to be equal in all roles. It’s ok for Necros to be inferior to Ele’s in the DPS role, just like it’s ok for some other class to be inferior to Guardians in a bunker role.

Also, I was explaining why and how ANet should balance around teams. Just because the current balance has problems, doesnt disprove the concept itself.

Areas for improvement:
- There needs to be more viable roles and more viable role-combinations.
Eg. Your own example, what if the Necros were condition damage & boon removal? (call it CD&BR). So we might have a Bunker, Roamer, 3xCD&BR team vs. a Bunker, Roamer, 3xDPS team.

And of course we’d want more viable role-combinations. Like zero bunkers, or all-roamers of different types, or whatever. This is a map/game mode issue as well as a balance one.

- Class balance needs to be improved so that more classes can be viable at more roles. Currently certain classes excel in many roles, whereas some other classes seem to be inferior in pretty much everything.

---

So yeah, just because the current balance still has a ways to go, doesnt mean that the concept of balancing around a team is invalid.

Nobody suggests that an RTS faction needs to have unit types balanced against each other 1v1, (or a dozen other analogies from a dozen other team game genres), so it’s silly to suggest that GW2 is somehow different.

Let me give you a real example I did the other day. Used 5 minions with 10% chance to remove boons, was using my boon removal and boon converting set-up. The ele I 1 vs 1’ed had boons the entire fight, permanent fury I specifically remember. So how about no, boon removal is under powered compared to how fast you can re-gain boons. Don’t even get me started on how useless condition necromancers become in paid tpvp. Might as well swap out the necro for a mesmer or something else honestly.

Rieselle.5079:

Jason Segel.2908:

Rolyate.6753:

I think you’ve gotten confused with the principle of balancing around 5v5.

How about you explain to me the principle of balancing around 5v5 then?

The principle of balancing around a team, means that not all classes/weapons/builds have to be equally good at all things.

It means you can have classes/weapons/builds that are stronger at support, bunker or roaming, and weaker at dueling.

A game balanced entirely around 1v1 would require most of the classes/weapons/builds in the game to be good at dueling.

Whereas balancing for team play, means you can have a variety of classes/weapons/builds that are good for a variety of things. So you can have a support character that can’t defeat a duelist 1v1, but a support+damager can beat 2 duelists 2v2.

Or a full team of mixed roles that cannot beat 5 duelists in individual 1v1 combat, but they can win a tPVP match against 5 duelists.

This is what it means to balance a game for team play.
I’m not saying that ANet is succeeding at this, but it’s certainly something they should aim for. GW2 doesnt have enough 1v1 mechanics to make a good dueling game. It’s no Dark Souls or Street Fighter.

No.

Blackjack.5621:

power necro is not viable compared to other physical dps classes.

condi necro is ok, but :

-Downstate removes all condis
-poor mobility
-guard and ele condi removal is out of control, so 2 classes are immune to you and can stall you on a node all day
-no sustained hp regen like ele, just a matter of time until you are dead
.poor ability to get out of focus in teamfights
-no burst

still you have good utility with marks and it´s unlikely to get oneshotted from 100% by thiefs, while everything you do is aoe.

since many teams are splitting up in paid tournaments to stall your close point with e.g. tornado bunker ele you need to send 2 BURST classes there to kill the ele, meanwhile you get outnumbered somewhere else. That means your necro has to roam somewhere else and you need to wait for the thief to arrive, while necro is getting forced to roam without mobility and necro isnt taht good in smaller fights.
Probably 5 necros still cant kill a bunker s/d.

This is just my opinion from 250quali points exp on necro, I am not saying necro is bad, I am just pointing out the downsides. Just ele and guard condi removal stacking is broken vs apply rate of necro so they are literally immune to a more or less glass canon player, but that´s an ele/guard issue.

Exactly. Thank you sir. This is what this post needs, more people who are really experienced with necromancers talking about all of the issues/strengths to achieve an overall better balanced class.

urinfamousr.7631:

Jason Segel.2908:

urinfamousr.7631:

Fellknight.4820:

The head designer obviously plays this class and is totally out of touch with reality, because I’ve never seen a class this insanely over the top in any game.

I’ve seen classes that can get away from just about anything.

I’ve seen classes run faster than anything.

I’ve seen classes 1-2 shot people.

Just never seen a class in a game that could do all of these at the same time, and a design team absolutely unwilling to address the fact that it’s this out of control. So lets all stop pretending this is a mistake or balancing issue when we all know exactly what’s going on here, blatant favoritism towards a guys preffered class.

Most players call the game Thief Wars you really gonna tank your own game pvp wise to keep your class on easy mode pvp.

just do like most pvpers do and move on LOL has given me a whole new appreciation for pvp

See how you are biased towards the minority of the game? The top pvpers will stay no matter what challenge.

Quit trying to be elitist bringing up LOL.

who are these “top players” we speak of ?? vid’s s/s or it never happened

“top pvpers”

You can look them up yourself, it’s the first post in “Structured PvP” forum. Don’t know how you missed it.

kaplis.7195:

mjharrison.3209:

kaplis.7195:

….

Actually d/d eles did get a major buff a couple of months after release.

I know there was one patch that indeed buffed them but it was mostly minor stuff, the only “strong” thing imo was the increased healing from water 2. Also there were nerfs for EA (which affected all weapons), healing ripple etc…
+ a couple of bug fixes.

My post was just something that i’ve noticed during the game’s period.
IMO

Yeah, you had a good observation on that for sure. I only know necros DPS < ele DPS because i 1 vs 1 a ton. single target DPS ele winds by a huge number + all that cc and knockdowns vs a necro is like constant getting thrown around.

You can win if ur a tanky necro, but it’s a 5 minute fight then.

Poplolita.2638:

Jason Segel.2908:

MindlessRuff.1948:

Jason Segel.2908:

MindlessRuff.1948:

Jason Segel.2908:

kaplis.7195:

I don’t think the capabilities of classes are actually relevant because it seems like everything is based around the general perception of the class.
Necro’s and ele’s were considered horribly UP 3 months yet people still played them and succeeded just as much as every other class…. Now ele’s are considered OP because of the whole D/D FOTM yet there were no major buffs to the proffesion. Don’t tell me it’s because “people learned to play the class” since many of us played them since betas.

Sorry.

Here is my credentials.

88% games played overall as necromancer, 99% of tournies won with necromancer, 99% of tournies played as necromancer.

Yours?

Wow, not trying to flame, but showing something like this doesn’ t really prove anything, except how concerned you are about your own rank. Stop trying to turn this place into a den of elitism.

0/10 for that troll.

You make a post asking for someone’ s credentials in a GAME and call other people trolls? Nice try there.

You told me my credentials mean nothing… This is a necromancer post… 99% games played as necro in tournies and 88% games played as necromancer overall… How does that disqualify me… How many people have you met that have 600+ games played as necro + 153 tournies as necromancer…

You didn’t give any of your qualifications that will shut me down. If you got more than that as a necro then maybe I would listen to you.

It is impossible to base someone’s skill based on what you just posted. It only shows how experienced you are in guild wars 2 pvp. With no ladder, and accurate ranking system, or elo rating system like in WoW, chess or starcraft, it gives you no right to bash someone else opinion.

0/10 for sure on that one. How are you helping develop necromancers with this?

MindlessRuff.1948:

" If you got more than that as a necro then maybe I would listen to you."

This is exactly what I said you would try to do, and no I do not play necro very often, but I do know someone who HAS played 2k+ Necro games since the start of the beta. I talk with him everyday about his feelings on the game and he loves doing his power build with wells that also has incredible sustain, as far as I know he thinks necros might be a little weak, but they are very competitive and NOT UP.

I would ask him to come post here, but he is alseep right now and doesn’t really follow the forums at all.

So it’s a he said/ she said thing eh? Amazing englightenment on the subject… Try actually contributing something next time…

DertoQq.4820:

Jason Segel.2908:

How many people have you met that have 600+ games played as necro + 153 tournies as necromancer…

Hi ! I have 800+ tourny wins as necro ! I hope this make me more than 5 time better than you ! (hint: it doesn’t, nobody cares about how many wins you have)

Really constructive feedback. Not at all…

“nobody cares about how many wins you have”

I am just showing that I play necro…. What is your problem exactly? You are clearly just here to troll and did not add anything to developing a necromancer (whole point of this thread)

0/10 to you as well, way off topic.

MindlessRuff.1948:

Jason Segel.2908:

MindlessRuff.1948:

Jason Segel.2908:

kaplis.7195:

I don’t think the capabilities of classes are actually relevant because it seems like everything is based around the general perception of the class.
Necro’s and ele’s were considered horribly UP 3 months yet people still played them and succeeded just as much as every other class…. Now ele’s are considered OP because of the whole D/D FOTM yet there were no major buffs to the proffesion. Don’t tell me it’s because “people learned to play the class” since many of us played them since betas.

Sorry.

Here is my credentials.

88% games played overall as necromancer, 99% of tournies won with necromancer, 99% of tournies played as necromancer.

Yours?

Wow, not trying to flame, but showing something like this doesn’ t really prove anything, except how concerned you are about your own rank. Stop trying to turn this place into a den of elitism.

0/10 for that troll.

You make a post asking for someone’ s credentials in a GAME and call other people trolls? Nice try there.

You told me my credentials mean nothing… This is a necromancer post… 99% games played as necro in tournies and 88% games played as necromancer overall… How does that disqualify me… How many people have you met that have 600+ games played as necro + 153 tournies as necromancer…

You didn’t give any of your qualifications that will shut me down. If you got more than that as a necro then maybe I would listen to you.

urinfamousr.7631:

Fellknight.4820:

The head designer obviously plays this class and is totally out of touch with reality, because I’ve never seen a class this insanely over the top in any game.

I’ve seen classes that can get away from just about anything.

I’ve seen classes run faster than anything.

I’ve seen classes 1-2 shot people.

Just never seen a class in a game that could do all of these at the same time, and a design team absolutely unwilling to address the fact that it’s this out of control. So lets all stop pretending this is a mistake or balancing issue when we all know exactly what’s going on here, blatant favoritism towards a guys preffered class.

Most players call the game Thief Wars you really gonna tank your own game pvp wise to keep your class on easy mode pvp.

just do like most pvpers do and move on LOL has given me a whole new appreciation for pvp

See how you are biased towards the minority of the game? The top pvpers will stay no matter what challenge.

Quit trying to be elitist bringing up LOL.

MindlessRuff.1948:

Jason Segel.2908:

kaplis.7195:

I don’t think the capabilities of classes are actually relevant because it seems like everything is based around the general perception of the class.
Necro’s and ele’s were considered horribly UP 3 months yet people still played them and succeeded just as much as every other class…. Now ele’s are considered OP because of the whole D/D FOTM yet there were no major buffs to the proffesion. Don’t tell me it’s because “people learned to play the class” since many of us played them since betas.

Sorry.

Here is my credentials.

88% games played overall as necromancer, 99% of tournies won with necromancer, 99% of tournies played as necromancer.

Yours?

Wow, not trying to flame, but showing something like this doesn’ t really prove anything, except how concerned you are about your own rank. Stop trying to turn this place into a den of elitism.

0/10 for that troll.

Vayra.3290:

Khyras.8021:

Balancing the game 5vs5 is a joke imo there are too many possible combinations with 8 classes and they all need to be balanced to call a game “5vs5 balanced”.
You need to balance the game based on 1vs1 principle ( or get near as possible to that goal) and when you do that game is balanced in every possible scenario ( 5vs5,2vs2,3vs3 etc) and in every possible game mode.
Balancing this game on 1vs1 principle is even more important here than in other MMOs because there is no holy trinity implemented and you need to rely more on yourself than on other people ( most fights there is no one to heal you, soak up damage for you or remove debuffs for you).

That’s just laughably wrong. 1v1 fights are completely different from team fights. In 1v1 a support build would be completely useless, while in a 5v5 it could be really strong.
Or take an example of something that is strong 1v1, but not worth the slot in 5v5: Moa. This skill is a ridiculously strong ability 1v1, but you would never take it if you were planning on a team fight. Why? Because the other elite (which is not nearly as strong 1v1) is so much better for a team fight.
Or take a more aoe-focused class. If they were to be balanced 1v1 they would either need to have their aoe be as strong as other classes’ single target (if they are squishy), or they would need to be significantly more durable than other dps builds. Either way they become extremely powerful in group fights since they can take on their natural counter (st burst builds) due to the 1v1 balance aspect.

1v1 balance is completely different from 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 or 20v20. The skills that make a difference at those team sizes can easily be worthless in 1v1 or have to be massively buffed to make a class viable for 1v1 and thus screwing up the team fights.

For a game that primarily revolves around team fights (5v5, 8v8), that is where the balance must lie, not in 1v1.

Agreed.

I also love how you proved my own point. DPS isnt balanced vs DPS. Therefore you cannot reliably balance for 5 v 5. Bunkers are not balanced vs other bunkers.

I love how little sense you make, struggling to come up with an answer, and instead marginalizing what I say and trying to put me down. You can’t even come up with a logical argument apparently of how I am wrong.

Shukran.4851:

Jason Segel.2908:

Care to explain what happens when 3 dps ele’s, a guardian, and a thief roamer are fighting against 3 dps necromancers, a guardian, and a thief roamer?

Here’s a hint, team with ele’s will win everytime.

Balance =/=

i hope you are joking with this example.
so if u have 3 ele dps u should have the same potential as 3 necro?
now you should understand why u only have 154 tourney won and u have no clue about balancing.

Considering I play with a 1 or 2 random pugs who don’t use microphones or don’t know too much, I would consider a 68% win ratio pretty decent.

I hope you are joking when you say classes are balanced when I threw a very obvious one in your face.

Maybe you should play the game more and see

Rieselle.5079:

Jason Segel.2908:

Rolyate.6753:

I think you’ve gotten confused with the principle of balancing around 5v5.

How about you explain to me the principle of balancing around 5v5 then?

The principle of balancing around a team, means that not all classes/weapons/builds have to be equally good at all things.

It means you can have classes/weapons/builds that are stronger at support, bunker or roaming, and weaker at dueling.

A game balanced entirely around 1v1 would require most of the classes/weapons/builds in the game to be good at dueling.

Whereas balancing for team play, means you can have a variety of classes/weapons/builds that are good for a variety of things. So you can have a support character that can’t defeat a duelist 1v1, but a support+damager can beat 2 duelists 2v2.

Or a full team of mixed roles that cannot beat 5 duelists in individual 1v1 combat, but they can win a tPVP match against 5 duelists.

This is what it means to balance a game for team play.
I’m not saying that ANet is succeeding at this, but it’s certainly something they should aim for. GW2 doesnt have enough 1v1 mechanics to make a good dueling game. It’s no Dark Souls or Street Fighter.

Care to explain what happens when 3 dps ele’s, a guardian, and a thief roamer are fighting against 3 dps necromancers, a guardian, and a thief roamer?

Here’s a hint, team with ele’s will win everytime.

Balance =/=

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

im looking for skilled players that want a main team to play with. we have had great success with the first 3 teams. i will be around to help you guys 100%

im looking for a team leader right now. someone skilled with the smarts and quick wits to think on there feet. they need to be willing to play hard and keep the team motivated.

ppl looking for a team make sure your skill lvl is at least a 7 out of 10 or higher (we are making competitive teams if you need more skill go to hotjoins and practice)

team 4 will work on rotations, picking fights, knowing when to pressure and when to retreat, starting match strats, regrouping and comeback strats. last but not least team synergy.

Presidents Bushes.

Reporting for dooty.

kaplis.7195:

I don’t think the capabilities of classes are actually relevant because it seems like everything is based around the general perception of the class.
Necro’s and ele’s were considered horribly UP 3 months yet people still played them and succeeded just as much as every other class…. Now ele’s are considered OP because of the whole D/D FOTM yet there were no major buffs to the proffesion. Don’t tell me it’s because “people learned to play the class” since many of us played them since betas.

Sorry.

Here is my credentials.

88% games played overall as necromancer, 99% of tournies won with necromancer, 99% of tournies played as necromancer.

Yours?

Wooyadeen.6491:

Jason Segel.2908:

Rolyate.6753:

I think you’ve gotten confused with the principle of balancing around 5v5.

How about you explain to me the principle of balancing around 5v5 then?

If you just try play tPvP (real one 5v5 team match) you gona figure it by yourself.

@Anet:

Please we need sPvP and tPvP forum, there is alot ppl who wanna discuss about tPvP without tPvP expirience.

ingame solution:

Lock tPvP for rank <15.

Like usual, another person who tries to marginalize my experience because they don’t want to hear anyone else’s opinions or listen to facts.

99% games won in tournies as necromancer, 88% games played as necromancer overall.

You didn’t explain anything, afraid of others ridiculing your amazing-ness?

/sarcasm.

Xom.9264:

You said it yourself Blueprint…. Necros are there more for the Rez signet then anything, yes its very strong combined with the already very hard to kill bunkers in the game.

Personally I would like to see rez sigs all removed it takes away from gameplay does not add to it…. they are far to strong and becoming a must have on some maps.

I would like to see more options than just necros having a limited range of things they can help with. Already condition removal is so over-powered it’s almost impossible to keep conditions up. Especially vs 2 passive removals every 10 seconds is crazy OP for guardians, a good necro should be able to take down a good guardian faster than 2 minutes on average in a 1 vs 1. I am 88% games played as necromancer out of 1000+ games/300 tournies. and have run so many trait set-ups, different runes/sigils/weapon combos its not even funny. I can tell you hands down there is no love for necromancer for burst. You just have to hope you can cc them and spam them with wells (36 second cooldown). Then since you have no stunbreakers the guardian just wipes the floor with you. It is so annoying it’s not even funny. I 1 vs 1 good guardians like Holly Jolly Folly, Sunkell, Ry Broh, Rub Mah Belleh, and it legit takes minutes of just trying to keep conditions up + deal regular damage to kill them it is crazy OP the condition wiping. Shouts removing conditions, 2 conditions get wiped every 10 seconds + all their blocking and reflect projectiles blocks so many moves that would load them up.

The counter class to guardians/ele bunkers in my opinion is necromancer, yet necromancer is severly UP when it comes to fighting the class they should be melting.

Akumetsu.8591:

some comps even actively avoid a 5v5 battle ^.^ and tries to spread the other team thin and win 2v2 battles and 3v3 battles. right now the balance is pretty good but the skill cap is very high. If you play some one like hman on his war suddenly warriors look op but in reality he is just really good at using his warrior. same with many of the top players. fiveguage is actually a brilliant example of this. engis are pretty much unheard of in paids except for him. he bunkers a point better than most guardian bunkers can, and its amazing to watch (annoying to play against though :P <3 you five guage)

Qt Hman, on Anvil Rock, has never beaten me in a 1 vs 1(my necromancer aka Presidents Bushes). Warriors are not OP when you have the correct build to counter them.

I am not advocating balancing bunkers vs dps. I said bunkers vs bunkers and how they perform. It’s very obvious guardians and ele’s are way better than bunker necromancers and bunker engi. So many knockbacks and knockdowns/cc that necro and engi have access to, but not at as many as ele and guardian. Things like that are annoying, what if I want to tank on my necromancer? I can’t really because I don’t have all that blocking, all them pushbacks, knockdowns, those bubbles that make people fall down when they touch it, etc. That clearly shows how the meta is skewed towards guardian/ele being point defense. I like playing necro, necromancers have really good tanking abilities and can live for awhile, but not like guardian/ele, NOT EVEN CLOSE. So they need to buff necro/engi for tanks and give us different moves or different weapons that are more defensive. That is just one example and I will not type them all but there are a ton.

JonPeters.5630:

Let me try and clarify myself a bit more. Death Shroud is very powerful because it gives Necromancer access to a secondary health bar which is is much more reliably renewable than normal health is for other professions. On top of that it essentially also gives them a 3rd weapon set that they can use to circumvent the basic weapon swap cooldown to reliably bounce between powerful skills in 3 different sets. For both of these reasons, Necromancer has a high power ceiling but also an extremely high learning curve.

In the current condition heavy meta-game, there is a lot of condition removal. The problem this is causing for Necromancers is that they do not have a lot of build diversity in this meta, because they don’t have any great power builds they can turn to. What I would like to try and do is increase build diversity without increasing effectiveness because I don’t believe we have really seen what strong Necromancers can do yet.

Hopefully that explains a bit where we stand. We are still working towards getting rid of all of the bugs in everyone’s skills and traits at which point we can get a much better idea of where everyone stands. That time will also give us the chance to see where the large amount of current players actually takes the meta game.

Jon

It’s been 3 months. All you added was 10 stacks of might to “Blood is Power”
Added 15 seconds of stability to Flesh Golem(who already stand around and doesn’t attack as it is)

I hope to see these changes you talk about. 88% of games played Almost rank 30, as necromancer.

Mufa.1326:

Wanted to bring this up as well:
When people try to talk about imbalance of some classes in 1v1 situations, the answer often seems to be ‘game is balanced around 5v5, not 1v1’.
Personally I think this is a BS answer. Game should be balanced in any setting (1v1, 3v3 and 5v5 situations).
It is just easier to hide severe imbalances of a class when you are talking about 5v5 (other team can also get that class and the fact that one or two classes in a group of 5 are overpowered gets toned down ‘on average’ so it does not look that bad), so there is this myth going around how they are balancing the game around 5v5.

And note, balances in different settings are not that difficult to achieve. It is not impossible to nerf 1v1 aspect of a class while buffing it in group setting or the other way around.

Balancing bunkers vs bunkers, dps vs dps, and trying to balance mixtures of the two would go really far. Even simply changing all trait lines so that when you stack precision in your trait lines it always gives more crit damage%. Which is not the case for all classes and makes some classes perform better than others.

Necromancer has to spend 60 points to get +300 precision and 30% more crit damage. Thiefs/warriors/mesmers spent 30 points. Very odd and there are other things that make no sense that happen across minor traits/major traits and structures of trait lines in general.