Guild Wars 2

HARDOFREADING.7298:

You can disagree all you want. LoL Dash removes Immobilized/Crippled/Chilled.
A pure 3/4 Evade, 8 seconds of Swiftness, & Damage Reduction for 4 seconds.
Not to mention the 450 movement….
Dodge is just 3/4 second Evade.
Nope, Nothing wrong with HoT and skill balancing in this game….Nothing at all.

So using dash to escape someone means a thief has used their ONLY defense being their dodge. Thieves have no retal, no blocks (other than Bandits defense), no invulns and certainly no passives. If someone uses their defenses to catch a thief, both characters now have no defense. This generally means a dead thief.

You’re right though – HoT and skill balancing is awry. Thieves needs more defenses to better balance the class out.

I use this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZEQNAsYVn0MBdmi9OBeOB8PhFYCTLBEAyAzdwSYL07LEHaDA-T1SBQBP4JFgCNMA4AKISlBXRpXCV/RDHCgJcCAwj+Aot/gZUCuZYAYIEBwMzMTjIjMAA-w

I most roam solo, but if I get in a small group, I’ll swap in Thrill of the Crime and Bountiful Theft for the group bonuses.

Saku Joe.2857:

Thanks for the comments guys, i appreciate!
And yeah maybe i didn’t explain my self correctly, it’s not acro build but something close to it, using DD line.
Like you said Jiminy, playing acro atm is just impossible (and i tried a lot of times).
Acro line, like many thief topic already mentioned it, is a bad out dated version of DD.
We lost too many tools in acro line. All i wanted to say is S/D acro pre HoT was stronger than daredevil S/D after HoT.

Ah! Now this I can get behind. Been playing S/D thief since the beta weekends, and other than Unhindered Combatant, we’ve slid backwards pretty much across the board.

I agree that it is a great video, but I suspect there are no comments as OP talked about using acro but then just used the standard S/D thief build using DD. Acro is almost impossible to take due to the utility offered by DA, DD and Tr. The loss of one of those outweighs anything you get from acro.

How about another blind and another boon steal via TS? Make S/D the King of blinds and boon stealing and actually valuable to a party.

Cain.6408:

Sure, give them burst… but blowing through all a ranger (in full ascended and infused gear) HPs in 2 seconds while I can’t use any skills to negate damage is getting a bit old. I mean come on

Yeah! kitten thieves and their burst capability….wait, not about thieves? Wow, must be Opposite Day.

Bubi.5237:

Ahhh, good ol’ stealth-thieves, love them…
Was playing pre-HoT my favorite SD-engi and a thief tried to annoy our group… he died in 4 seconds ’cos Analyze… Then I got rage-whispers for using cheating/OP/etc. build…
I love stealth-spammer thieves!

wow, you use a skill other than ‘inflict X damage now’ and it provides you utility and an advantage in combat? I wonder if this novel idea will ever take off?

McWolfy.5924:

The problem is exist since the first day of the game. After a few hours of practice you are unkillable with thief (exclude if you seriously kitten things up or your cat jumps on your keyboard). Stealth, jump in, stealth jump out and you are out of combat

There are multiple ways to see through stealth. There are multiple ways to CC a thief. There a multiple ways to PBAoE.

If they’re unkillable, why are there so few thief builds in the PvP or WvW meta?

Clownmug.8357:

SNIP

12-15 seconds to fully refill initiative, only 6 seconds needed to use most of the weapons skills. I have to wait 5 seconds for Phase Traversal’s cooldown plus potentially 2-3 more seconds for enough energy to use it, and that’s only if I’m auto attacking the whole time. I don’t think a thief player would completely run out initiative anyways unless they were spamming Unload or something.

Steal is rarely 30 second cooldown since most thief builds use Trickery and sometimes Sleight of Hand. Shadowstep isn’t used often enough for the 50 second cooldown to matter, plus if I try to reach them they can just use the return skill and I’m out of energy. Withdraw is also rarely untraited in this condi heavy meta, so the 18 second cooldown is irrelevant.

There isn’t really any chance to attack a thief if they’ve already run away at 1200+ range, let alone attacking 8 times. As for CC I don’t know how I’m supposed to do that when Phase Traversal used up my energy just to reach them. If I did have energy there’d still be a 1-2 second windup for anything that’s not melee range.

So basically the thief is good at running away and you can’t catch them to kill them. If they however engage you (they have a max 900 range), everything is in your favour. I can’t really see your issue here.

Clownmug.8357:

Unlike me I’m sure they never had to worry about running out of initiative. Even if they couldn’t use Infiltrator’s Arrow they’d still have Withdraw, Shadowstep, or Dash to escape. Then after a few seconds their intiative is refilled and they can re-engage me with Steal, Shadow Shot, or Infiltrator’s Strike.

A few seconds? It takes over twelve seconds for the entire initiative pool to refill, unless you select a utility to enhance refresh, which means it only takes 11 seconds to refill. From that refill, a thief can get two or three attacks or escape mechanics off and then has to wait another twelve (or eleven) or more seconds. Steal is on a 30 second-cool down. Shadowstep is on a 50 second cool down. Withdraw is on an 18 second cool down. In that time, any other class can get 8 attacks off, or even more if they have cool downs less that 12 seconds (or 11) and all three utilities and their heal off. Basically, more actions than a thief can undertake in the same period of time.

Use CC and you’ve just ruined the thief’s day.

Cynz.9437:

odd, i see a lot of d/d or staff thieves in pvp

Basically – steal/mug, vault, weapon swap, cloak and dagger, backstab.

Cake.4920:

Jiminy.8340:

For the timeslice. The Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier is based on timezone. The ‘primetime’ zone. The other 18 hours are the redheaded stepchild.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

• During prime time hours, the multiplier would always be at it’s maximum of 3.
• During off hours, the multiplier might stay at 3 or drop to 2 or 1, depending on on activity level.

If you have active WvW during non primetime, you score just as much as primetime.

I imagine it won’t be based on your server population, but those that you are facing against.

Either way, it doesn’t worry me too much as I solo roam/havoc roam. I’m interested to see what will happen with all these servers with population disparities.

For the timeslice. The Action Level – Victory Point Multiplier is based on timezone. The ‘primetime’ zone. The other 18 hours are the redheaded stepchild.

Yeah. I was playing around last night and Sigil of Blood procs but still doesn’t show in the logs, but it actually heals.

Cake.4920:

DeWolfe.2174:

We’re fighting for a share of the total, always. Those 10 OCX players are fighting for a portion of the whole 100%, just as those 100 NA players are. If anything, I could argue that it’s not fair those 10 OCX players are doing 10x’s the labor of the NA players!!! They should get 10x’s the rewards!!!

“Since I’m (OCX) worth so much, I should be rewarded even more!”

What an entitled nightcapper.

DeWolfe.2174:

Dawdler.8521:

10x the labor? What labor?

Have you ever solo’d a keep lord? That’s a whole lot more effort and skill than doing it with 30+. The point was, you still have the same amount of territory to manage with less man power.

Must be nice having undefended keeps to take. I’m sure your pve is more skillful than pvping for a keep.

Do you actually have an argument to present, or are you just going to jump on the ‘PvD’ logic, which is completely untrue in T1?

Last night, BG and DB were queued for WvW in the middle of ‘non-primetime’, that is, OCX time. No PvD – just three large factions fighting one another. With the new system, that will be all for less value than those in primetime though.

What an entitled primetimer.

briggah.7910:

Jiminy.8340:

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

you’ll prob still have queues during primetime. again reread what changes are coming.. you will still want to win as many 2 hour time slices as you can. chances are you will still win if you have better off coverage than just a na heavy server.. it justs won’t be a complete blowout after the first few days

I have no doubt there are queues during primetime also. My point it, the same number of people are playing the game (or close – not sure of TC’s queues) yet one subsection is considered not as important and worth less overall. While timeslices can be won, the contribution to the worldscore is less.

It’s the Queen Karka event all over again.

briggah.7910:

Aphs.9528:

RIP JQ and DB hahahahahaha

umm they both have numbers during primetime. pretty sure every tier now has numbers during primetime. i could be wrong but i take word from all those that now claim the old map has brought back players and there are massive queues all over the place.

Ironically, DB and BG are both queued for EB right now…smack in the middle of non-primetime. I guess all the people playing now are not as valuable as those that queue in primetime.

The scoring opportunities are identical at the moment – No matter where you are based. It is coverage that is askew.

Matt Witter.6982:

We feel that everyone should have the ability to contribute no matter what time of the day it is. How we’ve came to this conclusion is that no player’s time is more valuable than another. Everyone has different off peak hours for whatever reason. Players should not be punished or unable to experience and view the same content as everyone else because they play at a different time. They too are paying customers.

Just to throw fuel on the flames – some old dev quotes. How times have changed.

Matt Witter.6982:

We feel that everyone should have the ability to contribute no matter what time of the day it is. How we’ve came to this conclusion is that no player’s time is more valuable than another. Everyone has different off peak hours for whatever reason. Players should not be punished or unable to experience and view the same content as everyone else because they play at a different time. They too are paying customers.

Going to be interesting to see what happens to the BG blob during offpeak times. Will they get frustrated at their steamrolling not contributing to PPT? Time will tell I guess.

Dawdler.8521:

Jiminy.8340:

So you don’t spend your badges on things like siege blueprints or traps/tricks? More badges means more of those. So unfair to those night-cappers!

So? Again, it has nothing to do with the server score.

The other day I spent ~15 superior catas and nearly 2 hours on trying to repeatedly get through a single T3 keep. At the end of that the enemy still held it and we got next to no badges to show for it.

Do nightcappers PvDing in the dead of night against near zero opposition do this? No. Yet you dont hear me crying about how unfair my fights are when people defend their keeps or zergs 5 times our size roll us.

You’re complaining about ‘night-cappers’ impacting the score and decrying how unfair it is to those servers without such a presence. I’m giving examples of other unfair mechanics that work against those same ‘night-cappers’. If the crux of the issue is ‘night-cappers’, then everything associated with them needs to be looked at – not just the scoreline. If the crux of the issue is the scoreline, get player presence to bolster your off hours.

If you’re of the opinion that actually recruiting SEA/OCX players isn’t viable, someone best tell the current tier 1 servers who have full maps during prime time and a large presence in the off hour also. Seems to work for them.

Johje Holan.4607:

No amount of server combinations are going to be able to satisfactorily equalize populations 24 hours a day. So what’s left is scoring adjustments to mitigate the negative effects of unequal populations at different times of the day.

Or, you know, getting some SEA/OCX folks on your server to fight the other SEA/OCX people doing you damage. I know it’s a weird idea – actually playing for 24 hours with multiple people on a 24×7 MMO.

Dawdler.8521:

Jiminy.8340:

Dawdler.8521:

Jiminy.8340:

Diku.2546:

@OP

Let me join you in being silly…

Don’t forget that PPK needs to be lowered during peak times as they get more kills (due to more players) and thus makes it unfair! Also less badges received would make perfect sense.

Less badges recieved actually make zero sense, changes to the server scoring rules have nothing to do with badges.

PPK however do, so you’re actually right: PPK should be lower the more people are online. Just like max PPT should be lowered the less people are online.

But see, during ‘primetime’ there are more players online and thus a better chance of more kills. More kills means more loot. Thus, to make thing fair for the ‘night-cappers’ who don’t have that same chance to get a similar number of kills, it only makes sense to lower rewards during ‘primetime’. Have to make things fair!

Loot still doesnt have anything to do with the rules for server scores, no matter how much you think it does. More kills means more loot true. But it’s irrelevant.

With your argument, I can argue why I dont get any sPvP points and lootchests when I am playing WvW? I mean I could have played that. I was thinking about it. I should also get all the ori from an orr mining round too. Because that’s loot I would have gotten if I wasnt asleep. Oh and 3 precursors. I’m sure they meant to drop.

Your point is pointless. As long as killing 1 player or 1 NPC give the same exact chance for loot, killing 1000 or 10 is irrelevant. Everyone will be different. You kill what you kill, end of story. It doesnt unbalance the whole matchup system, unlike runaway PPT gains during low pop times.

So you don’t spend your badges on things like siege blueprints or traps/tricks? More badges means more of those. So unfair to those night-cappers!

Dawdler.8521:

Jiminy.8340:

Diku.2546:

@OP

Let me join you in being silly…

Don’t forget that PPK needs to be lowered during peak times as they get more kills (due to more players) and thus makes it unfair! Also less badges received would make perfect sense.

Less badges recieved actually make zero sense, changes to the server scoring rules have nothing to do with badges.

PPK however do, so you’re actually right: PPK should be lower the more people are online. Just like max PPT should be lowered the less people are online.

But see, during ‘primetime’ there are more players online and thus a better chance of more kills. More kills means more loot. Thus, to make thing fair for the ‘night-cappers’ who don’t have that same chance to get a similar number of kills, it only makes sense to lower rewards during ‘primetime’. Have to make things fair!

Diku.2546:

@OP

Let me join you in being silly…

Don’t forget that PPK needs to be lowered during peak times as they get more kills (due to more players) and thus makes it unfair! Also less badges received would make perfect sense.

Gideon.6742:

Jiminy.8340:

Gideon.6742:

Grim West.3194:

Reducing night capping just tells players who aren’t in NA that they are lesser human beings. It is a failed attempt to fix a game mode that is flawed to it’s core.

No, not at all. It’s saying hey less people are playing so the PPT during those hours is going to reflect that. You are still going to get points just not these thousands upon thousands you would before. Even if they reduced the gain 50% you can still get 10-20k point swings……………………for PvDing everything with basically no one or no one defending

Should we also remove points per kill during primetime? Afterall, there are more players and more points up for grabs then.

That is a terrible comparison. PPK is a small percentage of overall score. On top of that the kill differences makes it even less substantial as most of the points negate each other.

But you wouldn’t be opposed to lowering the PPK during primetime? More bodies, more points possible – thus putting ‘nightcappers’ at a disadvantage. Come to think of it, less badges also. Have to try and make everything fair afterall.

Gideon.6742:

Grim West.3194:

Reducing night capping just tells players who aren’t in NA that they are lesser human beings. It is a failed attempt to fix a game mode that is flawed to it’s core.

No, not at all. It’s saying hey less people are playing so the PPT during those hours is going to reflect that. You are still going to get points just not these thousands upon thousands you would before. Even if they reduced the gain 50% you can still get 10-20k point swings……………………for PvDing everything with basically no one or no one defending

Should we also remove points per kill during primetime? Afterall, there are more players and more points up for grabs then.

MTF.1284:

Good god fellow forum warriors please stop referring to real war when talking about WvW in an online game.

Someone is suggesting getting allies from other regions to nightcap for them, as much as especially NA likes to buy guilds from EU to win the match-ups for them, I’m sorry not everyone wants to do that. And to be fair in my opinion it is rather sad trend.

Reducing the effectiveness doesn’t mean nightcapping or some wicked aussie playing in EU server would be meaningless. Even if the PPT during nights would be halved, you’re still worth way more than a prime time player.

And yes, I like to play God at times and decide the entire match-ups by myself night capping, but I do realize it shouldn’t be that way.

So lets ignore real world comparisons and only use gaming terms.

WvW is a 24×7 multiplayer game. If you have 1000 players that only player primetime, you’re not playing by either of those ideals. As an individual, you have fun and win battles and get points. As a team/server, you lose the war.

If you balance out your servers and get guilds across all timezones, you might not win all battles or streamroll anyone at anytime, but you stand a kitten good chance at winning the war because others servers are too focussed on ‘primetime’. It’s all pretty simple. Lots of servers did this during BWE and pre-launch. They’re the effective T1 and T2 servers now.

No ‘buying’ guilds. No playing god. Just playing a 24×7 multiplayer game.

As an aside, you seem to forget that killing other players adds to a server score. You 1000 strong server steamrolling another during primetime generates far more points than just claiming objectives. Should Anet lower the points per kill during primetime due to an advantage of numbers during primetime?

Hi all,

So I run a S/D daredevil in WvW, mostly running as a scout for my server while flipping camps/slapping yaks. Occasionally joining the blob when it comes to me where I just pick off stragglers or those in the backline if I can get there. Currently have all ascended berserker trinkets and weapons and run with valkyrie armor. I’m about to embark on crafting my ascended armor set and will go the marauder route to get my crit chance up while keeping health and power.

I can get my crit chance and damage to an acceptable level and actually use another armor chest type without worrying too much about precision or ferocity. My question is – Is it worth crafting a piece with toughness just to get those 101 points?

The NA guilds (and EU to lesser extent) could maybe approach OCX/SEA guilds and get some people to plug the gaps during their offpeak. Crazy idea – actually seeking allies to help in a war.

Do we have to remind Anet about the horrendous Karka Queen event route where they had a ‘one off’ event that half the world wasn’t able to attend due to timing – all after weeks of slow build up.

Not sure it needs to be changed to a pure power skill, but raising the damage would help immensely. Alternatively, adding another condition such as weakness or vulnerability and upping the target number to 5 would help also.

I do. Works pretty well with a S/S+LB conditions build. Effectively you’re able to use F1 each time it is off cd, unless you prefer to leave the adrenaline there to heal up via Adrenal health.

If all that interests you is crafting, why does getting to level 80 even bother you?

Yes, Healing Signet heals a lot passively. The reason for this is that Warriors get very little access to other healing skills.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing

Note the warrior only appears twice in this list.

This doesn’t even touch on the plethora of ways other classes have to mitigate damage that warriors do not have access to.

The skill is powerful, but it is not over powered when the class is viewed as a whole.

I run a similar build, though with 10 in Arms (from Tactics) to get Deep Cuts. I use Dire armor and everything else Rabid. Works okay for me.

Give it a 20 second cool down…which is how long it was taking the warrior to climb back up the stairs and throw himself off them again.

hahaha,

I wonder of those foes have ever heard of stun or immobilize?

Raven.9603:

can you point me in the direction of where to find anet saying warriors (or any one specific class) ought to be more survivable than everyone else in the game?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/December-10th-Warrior-Changes/first#post3149832

Specific quote is ‘a lot of survivability’.

Raven.9603:

like i said, i dont think healing signet ticcing for 400/sec is OP, what is OP is that it does that without any investment into healing power. If you want to gear a warrior to have high sustain and be hard to take down, that is awesome. but its not awesome to be able to gear for straight dps and still have more regen than the other classes that went full blown into healing power. thats just bad.

For the record, all I am arguing is the use of the term OP with relation to HS. There is a marked difference between powerful and over powered.

I would have no objection to making it heal less at 0 healing power (300? 350?) and scaling up from that. That way, warriors that actually trait for healing Power or invest in Cleric’s gear will benefit more than just some zerker warrior. This can only be a good thing.

Yes, warriors have the equal highest base health and equal highest armor value. They also have the least other damage mitigation tactics. This is where the Healing Signet comes in.

For the class that should have the highest survivability (according to Anet), you can’t just give them a few extra hitpoints and armor and say, ‘Job done’. There has to be something else.

Incidentally, my thief has a very similar armor rating as my zerker warrior simply because of the way I designed them. Does this then make the thief OP because they have one of the two ‘survivability’ ratings as warrior? What about guardians and their armor? What about necromancers and their health pool?

Lastly, just because Healing Signet ticks for ~400 each second doesn’t automatically make it OP. Anet may very well be looking at the numbers in the background and saying it is perfect.

Raven.9603:

healing signet is OP.

You know, just saying something is OP doesn’t make it so.

It’s a passive healing skill that heals for a little more than other warrior healing skills. For a class that according to Anet is supposed to have high survivability, it doesn’t seem too OP to me.

Alternatively, a 10% extra crit chance, plus a 10% cooldown decrease, plus a small adrenaline boost on crit would be nice.

Differentiates it from other cooldown decrease traits and helps deepen builds that do not use a high DPS weapon set.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Jiminy.8340:

Scoobaniec.9561:

YoloFredom.6329:

To OP.

Firstly, its a L2P issue. Try timing your imobilise skills (Pin down and Flurry) with your AoE pulse skills from your LB, its not hard.

Bit if you cant manage to push a few buttons in the correct order then well sir, there is no hope for you.

Signed this game is ezomode

Ooo we have a pro here.

Firstly mr pro, not everyone pairs lb with sword

Second, not everyone runs without condi removal/teleports.

Third, quaqqan backpack on.

Then use one of the other dozen stuns or root a warrior has access to. You do not need sword/sword to do this.

You run without condition removal or movement skills? If this is true, you cannot complain about anything…ever.

“Not everyone runs without condi removal,teleports” it actually means that everyone do.

And what cc’s exacly? Once u use combu at lv3 bc lv 1/2 sux hard atm, all u got left is 1 stage of adrenaline if running burst mastery..1sec stun yay, but w8..combu shot gonna last 9sec now ; o no decent player will stand for longer than 2sec in the field, also: stun breakers.

Given your use of double negatives and heavy sarcasm, I missed that ‘without’ part. Not a big deal really, as I wasn’t agreeing with YoloFredom as much as pointing out that warriors have access to a plethora of CC mechanics. I agree with you about Combustive Shot though. Read my other posts on the topic. In comparison to Ranger bow AoE effects or Necromancer condition AoE effects, it is woeful.

The point of my post was to refute your assertion that Pin Down is the only way to CC a foe in the Combustive Shot AoE. Warriors also have access to Throw Bolas , Shield Bash, Earthshaker, Skull Crack, Backbreaker. Tremor, Bull’s Charge and Stomp. I use two of these with reasonable success.

Sadly, after trying all the options presented in these forums, I decided to rebuild my machine. Problem fixed.

Deccode.3659:

Jon
Please tell us if you are planning to change sword (main hand – and/or off hand sword) skills. With that I mean the damage or conditions or anything… I think I speak for most of the warrior community that swords 4th and 5th skill are really useless compared to it’s counterparts… or the damage on the swords first skill… even if you are not going to change anything about it, just tell. Thanks in advance.

I actually don’t mind the number 4 & 5 skills on sword. Rip could use a little buff, such as inflicting confusion or weakness, but impale and riposte work pretty well as a condiwarrior.

Same issue (with a slightly different exception ID) since the last update.

Scoobaniec.9561:

YoloFredom.6329:

To OP.

Firstly, its a L2P issue. Try timing your imobilise skills (Pin down and Flurry) with your AoE pulse skills from your LB, its not hard.

Bit if you cant manage to push a few buttons in the correct order then well sir, there is no hope for you.

Signed this game is ezomode

Ooo we have a pro here.

Firstly mr pro, not everyone pairs lb with sword

Second, not everyone runs without condi removal/teleports.

Third, quaqqan backpack on.

Then use one of the other dozen stuns or root a warrior has access to. You do not need sword/sword to do this.

You run without condition removal or movement skills? If this is true, you cannot complain about anything…ever.

Fallout.1798:

Longbow Combustive Shot has already been downgraded by having its level 1 and 2 adrenaline attacks a smaller radius. The skill already pulses once every 2 seconds. Meanwhile other aoe fields pulse every second such as Necromancer wells, or every 0.6 seconds in the case of the Ranger’s Longbow #5 barrage attack.
If the core reason of concern is not in the damage but of the adrenaline refilling itself fast, then perhaps there is a much easier solution to this. Make the adrenaline gains from Combustive Shot be exactly the same as the Sword Burst skill Flurry. The hits from Flurry do not generate adrenaline. So why not apply the exact same to Combustive shot?

Completely agree. I’m confused as to the damage nerf when the stated purpose was an adrenaline nerf.

I would much rather see the same theory as flurry added to combustive shot, and simply remove adrenaline generation from the ability completely. Compare the raw damage to any other burst skill though, and CS is now woeful.

Purifer.3946:

I’d like to see a good trait for 1h swords. It’s the only without 20% cd reduction

Agreed! DPS warriors get to decrease their weapon cooldowns, by condiwarriors are unable to.

Easymode does not equal OP

Lucentfir.7430:

I find it fine the way it is, honestly they need to give the rip skill a buff, because there’s no reason to pull the sword out of anyone.

Confusion would be perfect to apply. Sticking a sword into someones guts and then pulling it out would lead to general confusion and pain.