Guild Wars 2

You can’t seriously be suggesting this class needs a buff. Also if you don’t think revive bonuses are good, you don’t get the point of them. It’s excellent in dungeon team play. Also, are you ignoring the fact that the vit tree gives -boon duration- as well, along with the amazing primary traits?

You’re trippin’ dude.

Yes warriors have armor, but anyone with toughness can get 3000+ armor, warriors however don’t have the CC or Bleeding/Poison

Well, except for the arms tree gives massive bleeding and vulnerability bonuses, plus might and all that. Also, funny, I thought the immobilization skill, the immobilize on cripple trait plus the MANY weapon groups that feature cripple, at least 3 knock back utilities some of which are aoe, proper use of banner defense, the massive amounts of stuns/interrupts and weakness inflicting offered by maces, etc. made Warrior easily one of the best CC professions in the game.

Do tell, what other class can cycle 4-5 (3 of which are aoe/wide cone) knock backs + immobilizing cripple and a 4000 damage ranged attack, bleed and vulnerability added on top?

As for your “anyone with toughness can get 3000 armor”. Yeah, great. Tell me again, what happens when a Warrior that can already get 3000 armor easily decides to spec for toughness? Oh yeah, they get a trait that gives them infinite regen whenever their adrenaline is full, a ~10k heal that fills adrenaline to the max, 3x 1.5 k heals + buffs or another type of regen that works at the same time as the previously mentioned adrenaline regen that effects everyone and applies buffs to everyone as well, allowing you to regen at least 4000-6500 hp every 10 seconds if not more and damage reduction that is outright outrageous.

Hey guys let’s buff warriors. Again. Not like they’re already several fold more powerful than other professions. Oh wait….

Sorry to sound so cynical, but it’s silly I can take out entire groups of vets with my level 80 exoed out warrior and yet other professions cannot. Warrior is by far the best and most complete profession in the game. If you don’t believe that, you need to play more of the other professions/read some guides. I can’t help but feel it’s unfair to ask for a reworking like this when other professions don’t even have weapon stats or half their traits working properly.

Glass Cannon is a noob build in the end anyway to be honest. You can get close to the same damage output while still having a vast pool of health and toughness by focusing primarily on defensive traits and stats and picking one particular field of dps. You’ll still do the highest damage in the game, you’ll out tank guardians, you’ll be able to distribute huge buffs and heals to the party and if you do it right, you’ll clear everyone’s conditions, bleed, knockback, weakness and poison the enemy and still be able to kill Kohler without dodging.

AKA gtfo, warriors are EASILY the most powerful class in the game, both solo play and in groups. You just don’t know how to play them/refuse to play them properly. A decent heal shout or banner build that’s played properly will toast a dps build in group PvE every time, just the buffs and heals alone are staggering.

You’re joking yourself or doing something kitten (like a signet build at lvl 80) if you are struggling as a warrior.

Grenade tosses were very impressive and perfectly aimed if they came close to a 1000 damage, highly exceptional if they exceeded that.

lvis.3824:

Lol , this is really funny you know.

In other forums the baddies come in and QQ about how OP the skill X or profession Y is, and in the engieers forum the baddies come and QQ about their own skills….

Engineer is freaking awesome, of course only in the hands of a skilled player.
The engineer is even close to OP in certain situations IF you are willing to min-max them !

This lies in the ability of the class to adapt so well , this is something that many other “OP” classes are missing.

They only can dish out dmg, perhaps little support but thats it …

And you know what the best things is about all this, Anet won’t listen because they actually play their own game, and they know very well if someting is in line or needs a slight buff / nurf

The ability of classes to adapt so well? Kind of like a warrior can adapt to have banners that have vastly better range, staying power (huge staying power) and effectiveness compared to engineer buffs? Maybe you were you referring to the engineer’s ability to heal if they trait and gear specifically for that, which is utterly outclassed by the warriors infinite permanent regen?

Maybe you meant engi’s ability to inflict bleed with on crit or with explosives when we spend about 50 trait points, you know, the thing swords have as an innate ability on swords’ #1 attack at the start of the game, without crits and the warriors, if they trait for it, also get a high chance to inflict bleed on crits (oh yeah, they have better versions of our few worth while engi traits btw), combined with their ability to get up to 70-90% crit, without barely having to sacrifice anything what so ever?

Maybe he meant tanking. Kind of like how warriors can have double regen, bonus revival power and defense, high powered defensive buffs and oh yeah, a skill that makes them temporarily invulnerable for key tanker jobs like reviving allies? How about all those weakness attacks from mace that make the enemy do half damage? How about those hmmn?

If you don’t know what the heck you’re talking about, please be so kind as to shut your trap. You make up this crap without citing a single example (like I cited several) because you actually have no idea how to play this game yourself. All you have to do is try leveling a high tier class like warrior or maybe thief to about lvl 15-25, then try the same on an engineer and you will understand EXACTLY what I’m referring to.

Even at the starter levels the difference is very, very, very, clear. This trend continues ALL the way up to and beyond 80. Once you pass lvl 21 on a warrior and get that first set of adept tier max trait abilities, it gets even more absurd, but even that’s not needed to demonstrate my point. However, anyone with multiple high level character that include Engineer (like me), can see the very, very, very, VERY, obvious difference.

If you don’t think so, you’ve never played engineer for any length of time or you do know better but you’re an obvious troll, so please stop talking out your bum. Your cries of Aquaman being just as awesome as Superman and Wonder Woman because he’s really op in certain situations is just freaking stupid. It’s common knowledge that this isn’t the case, so kindly stop trying to BS your way into pretending your some type of “pro-tier player” that understands the devs grand vision, simply because you like to pretend engineers aren’t gimped. You’re not.

That by the way, is the truth of Engineer versatility. Our versatility is we can all be different versions of Aquaman, in that we are only good at a single thing unless we utterly respec and utterly lackluster and underwhelming otherwise. If this weren’t the case, people wouldn’t be kicking engis out of fractal parties with commentary ala “sorry bro, engineers are useless” before the dungeon even starts, regardless of how skilled you might be, now would they?

I rolled a warrior since they always get buffed every patch, despite being able to -solo Arah and it’s bosses- (note how recent the date is by the way. lol hey guys lets buff warriors again). Pretty hilarious killing mobs of enemies 6 levels higher than me. TBH though, I am actually glad I played Engineer, it taught me to be pro as hell at this game. I’ve talked to my guildees, many of whom play warrior. Most of them do little more than stand there and swing with the occassional trick or two. Same goes for youtube videos of “master builds” being demonstrated.

Do you have any idea how crazy things get when you play a Warrior, like an Engineer? Wiping out multiple veteran mobs with over half hp? Did you know they get the effect of healing turret, all the time, 24/7 with healing signet? And it stacks with other forms of regen? If they get the adrenaline heal trait, they get 2x healing turret pretty much whenever they’re in combat, automatically. For free. No cardboard turret required.

Oh and they have higher hp. And toughness. And better might stacking. And buffs. And dps of course. Warriors get weapon stats. Warriors get signets. Warriors get the best armor and gear in the game. Come up with a good attack pattern for warrior that makes copious use of weapon swapping and watch everything explode. There’s lots of different tricks. Axe/Axe and Great Sword? A clever player can set it up so that if they’re not using ultra high dps attacks like Whirling Axe or Hundred Blades, they’re combining Whirlwind Attack and Charge to basically teleport behind the enemy, which is hilarious because they have multiple forms of regen going off at the same time, so it’s like a free heal that does 4,000 damage or more.

I especially am amused when people who have only tried Warrior/Guardian try to say that Engineers are just whining cause they don’t know how to play our class, when most of us can play THEIR class better than they can.

Engineers are great characters to learn the game on, but only because they’re so gimped it’s a fractalin’ joke.

According to the novels, the Lion Guard of today serves specifically Lion’s Arch, with is an autonomous city state. They are not affiliated, today, with the Kryta or any other nation.

Being that the Quaggan are a sea-faring race, I think it’s a more than reasonable assumption that the original Suwash at some point encountered them on his adventures and managed to make quite a name for himself among their people. As a result, the name was considered an “excellent name for a pirate” and taken up by our young Quaggan errm… “hero”.

Some how, I see this occurring more from the Human Suwash reciting some rather enthralling, highly exaggerated stories of his own adventures, rather than actual deeds being witnessed, but you never know!

Kintoun Zetto.2651:

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

then what about either The Elder Dragons or the Seers(creators of the original bloodstone) being the creaters of the 2 Scepters.

Nope. Read the wiki on the bloodstone. Elder Dragons pre-date the bloodstone. Also, there’s only ever been one bloodstone, the one created by the Seers. Abaddon just used it.

Actually, as an addition, upon further research, it is a canonical, conclusive fact that the elder dragons are even older than the 6 gods. Ergo, the dragons are not the gods etc etc.

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

then what about either The Elder Dragons or the Seers(creators of the original bloodstone) being the creaters of the 2 Scepters.

Nope. Read the wiki on the bloodstone. Elder Dragons pre-date the bloodstone. Also, there’s only ever been one bloodstone, the one created by the Seers. Abaddon just used it.

Read the novels. Rytlock mentions his family in short passing, basically explaining that he doesn’t give a kitten about them.

The Slyfe.7231:

If you want the warriors skills go play a warrior… simple.

Right, but we wanted to be a techno guy shooting his laz0r rifle at the bad guys all pew pew pew pew. The warrior’s skills are supposed to be big sword guy doing big sword stuff. The warrior is never at any point portrayed as the pew pew pew class, yet clearly they’re better at it than the guys whose every single equippable weapon set involves a gun.

Maybe I missed it, but where does it say engi is a ranged class?
Does it actually say that somewhere or do you just assume it is because it has pistols and a rifle? I’ve always played the engi as a class with ranged options, but never felt like I need to be at some sort of range to be effective.

I think people came to that conclusion when every single piece of concept art or related graphic featured the engineer with a pistol. It was then also pretty clearly stated by the whole, y’know, every equippable weapon set involves a gun.

As a guy running bombs and an EG the rifle works excellent with allowing me to best control the situation depending on whether I want to close distance, create it, or just cause the perception of chaos. The Warrior rifle does not offer near the amount of control, so no thank you…

Which part of the warrior rifle offers less cc btw? Was it the part where it’s knock back doesn’t force you to cc yourself, yet is still viable at the range where knockback is actually necessary or useful? Or was it the 5 second cripple that lasts 2.5 times longer than our immobilize and doesn’t vaporize into space half the time? Maybe you meant brutal shot, the one that stacks 2.5 times the vulnerability as jump shot, lasts for an entire TEN seconds and has almost twice the range? You know that toolbelt skill engineers equip the fury goggles for even though we already have elixir b for fury?

Yeah. Warriors get that for free on their rifle as a -weapon- skill. One with vastly lower cool down. And range. Plus it does damage.

Your post is a real cool story bro. Feel free to tell it again.

My guildee recently sent me 10.5 gold so that I could craft him his exotic jewelry set. Are we going to be banned next? This string of issues seems to becoming very wide spread. I’m not sure why ANet is doing as far as researching accounts before banning them, but it seems absurd that people on this board and a few I know in-game as well have been accused of this for outright legitimate transactions. I’d like to have my friends back. I know for a fact at least some of them never engaged in gold buying. Also, how is it that these folks are banned yet there’s still map chat messages in Lion’s Arch advertising gold sales every 5 minutes?

Seems like the past two months have been nothing but full of fail from AreaNet. What’s going on with you guys? Did you change your staff over to a bunch of people who don’t know wtf they are doing or what? You can’t just go around banning legitimate players like that, especially since it can’t be that hard to determine legitimacy through five minutes of research. I’ve managed an MMO before myself, I know what’s involved.

Running a few SQL queries to seek out and determine the legitimacy of previous transactions and gameplay habits should solve your problems. If you’re not using SQL, I severely hope you picked a database architecture that isn’t a bad joke or emphasized with over bloated gimmicks and picked something that has been proven to be reliable and effective, not the latest web scaling fad. I pray you’re not listening to the iMac hipsters going on about how great things like RUBY or Mongo db, ranting about sharding and what not. It shouldn’t take you more than 5 minutes to determine a transaction’s legitimacy unless you’ve done something horribly wrong with your database and have either over complicated it or some other terrifying issue that makes it THIS difficult.

Also, how is it people are remaining banned for over five days? Why would you ignore tickets like these? Is it because of the holidays? At least give a reasonable explanation you guys, you’re breaking people’s grapes here if you know what I’m saying.

Ponder.3647:

Are you stuck on using grenades? I’d give some other kits a shot. I enjoy TANKCAT quite a bit.

You do know Tankcat is a pvp build right?

Slither Shade.4782:

Note Im a pve guy and currently lvl 13 war.

Warrior is not the cake walk I was led to believe. Ive made two 80’s in full exotics so far, a thief, d/d ele and I cant say that the warrior is that much easier. Granted its not hard just saying that the tales have been exaggerated. So far have settled on axe/axe and rifle for weapons. I am looking forward to leveling this one too think this is gonna be fun.

I’m not sure if you’re just flailing wildly somehow, but it seems to me that you’re trolling in an attempt to make it sound like your class isn’t as op as everyone knows it is. Level 80 engineer here, just started a warrior, I’m currently a level 12 warrior and have found this to be so ridiculously easy it’s not even funny. I have literally leveled up this character by walking up to mobs 1 or even 2 levels higher than me, pressing 1, then playing Super Mario 3D Land until it’s dead, pause, repeat process, move to next heart, repeat process again.

This class is so op it’s insane. I -easily- out heal the dps of mobs one level higher than me, just with the passive signet of healing’s insanely op permanent regen forever that stacks with all other forms of regen. You must be trippin’ if you honestly think it isn’t the cake walk you were led to believe. God forbid if you happen to press the number 2 great sword attack, you instantly kill anything you’re attacking within seconds that isn’t a veteran or 2 levels higher than you.

tl;dr
Cool story bro, tell it again.

KirinDave.6451:

amiable.4823:

Vadon.1496:

Best way to protest is just to reroll and dont play engineer anymore.

This. i’m quite enjoying me D/D elementalist. Plays very much like an Engineer except with better damage, more survivability, better synergy and skills that actually work.

I am too. I’ve leveled a D/D Ele, Thief, and Necro to L30-40 and I’m probably sticking with the Elementalist next. It’s pretty much everything I wished the Engineer was, albeit a lot harder to play.

Engineer is kind of pushups and training for the much harder kind of long-cooldown-high-apm gameplay that is Elementalist, so that’s good. There’s also a lot of room for the class to grow in community knowledge; one need only read forums of PvP ele staff haters then go into WvW and be utterly wrecked by a Staff Ele duoing with a CC specialist to see how much room there is to grow there.

>Elementalist easier to play

Did you only use one kit or something? Engis have to swap things just like eles, only their “elements” takes up a utility skill slot instead of an F key, strategics decisions were necessary as to what to use and where and so on. Plus you have to manage cool downs in kits that you can’t even see while doing other things, you deal way less damage, deal inferior conditions (because a 1 second burn totally is worth it) and half your skills don’t even work right.

Meanwhile, an ele can perform substantially well doing little more than f1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, f2, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, f3, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, f4, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc. avoiding their cool downs entirely and causing massive kitten to just about everything. Grenades didn’t even auto attack for goodness’ sake. Oh AND ele’s get to keep their utility skill slots instead of sacrificing them on their “elements”.

I don’t know what you’re trippin’ on dawg, but if you think ele is harder, I question if we’re even playing the same game.

A week ago, Engineer’s were a fairly decent class that, if you tried hard, researched and played well, you could do fantastically in pretty much any PvE situation. Playing the Engineer was like being Batman. Yes, you’re a super hero, but all your friends have super powers and you don’t. Super strength, super durability, etc. But even if you didn’t have super powers, by being clever and making use of the little gadgets and gizmos you’ve managed to figure out, you could still be an integral part of any dungeon party.

Now?

Now Engineers aren’t Batman. They’re more like The Red Bee. Don’t know who that is? Not surprising, he was quickly killed off and left behind, kind of like Engineers in dungeons.

I loved my Engineer. Now it’s severely busted and we all have to pray that maybe AreaNet will fix the class. In the meantime, playing Engi is extremely depressing, don’t bother, seriously roll something else, you’ll be more interested in playing the game.

" I was on my lv 16 engineer, who shoots 16 times with his normal attack to kill a lv 8 critter."

Just as an example, most Warriors who have even an inkling of how to play their character can solo three to four equal level VETERAN mobs (especially in the <40 range) without breaking a sweat and kill them all in significantly less than 16 hits.

That’s how screwed Engis are.

Nirvana.8659:

I respect all your opinions guys,so don’t get me wrong….but…are you serius?All the engineer comunity(the biggest part it seems) cry for the granade kit????
There were so many ppls using granades,ignoring the fact that a lot of other stuff is completely broken (apart elixirs) ??
And now you want to go strike for…granades lol???
It sound strange to me see so many engineers cry for granade ignoring the fact that turrets sucks,gadget are useless…other kits apart from granates only collect a couple of “miss”,rifle skills like net shot is a permanent “miss”,jump shot is slow as the hell,blunderbuss goes CD without hit anything unless you are lucky and your net shot got the enemy,toss elixirs randomness that in a fast and professional PvP is a pain,because you cannot put out any strategy on teh RGN of toss elixirs,etc etc etc etc.

And you , cry for granade….ok.
Seems the nerf was needed if so many engineers were playing just spamming granades here and there , considering the tons of other stuff the engineer have,and no one even noticed how much broken is .

I apologize for my english.
Regards.

So many engis were using grenades because so many of our other skills, including the majority of the flamethrower kit, are utterly broken. This wouldn’t a big deal if we got weapon stats, but we don’t. Not only did they nerf grenade kit by the way, they also nerfed elixir gun. To anyone using a support build with ranged dps, either by gun or nade, was totally screwed.

Rifle Engineers are gimped now because the one weapon sigil slot cripples them because their other skills and best heal are useless now. Flame Thrower Engineer would be viable if it worked, but it doesn’t. Toolkit is a pvp kit and is mostly useless in PvE. Grenade Engineers do no damage worth while anymore and support engineers can’t heal properly anymore. Gadgets are either bugged to the point they don’t function or out right suck and we all know how “great” turrets are.

This wouldn’t be so bad if the devs would just release a statement telling us what the hell is going on here. I think nades these nerfs are fine and dandy in PvP/WvW, because toolkit is actually worth a dang there, but in PvE, they need to sort that out.

How would you feel if you had to reacquire every single exotic your main character has because of a massive overhaul change that will ensure he’s still not as powerful as before, even after spending 17 gold to regear him.

Oh and a side note:
Can anyone explain why a melee character like Warrior gets 200 more rifle range than an Engineer, a ranged class, automatically by default? Am I the only one that sees there’s something seriously wrong with that?

Aelita.5413:

1) buff is so short 20 minutes or 30 minutes is short.
2) there is not possible to put drink/food in tool bar and use it easily, open my bags search for food it is tedious. I’m usualy all time swarmed by mobs and I have no time to watch if my food/drink buff runs out.
3) there is not to much attentuion in small icons to notice that buff run out. May be there is so many small icons to watch conditions, boons and buffs are all mixed together. I can call it that GW2 for today’s MMO has ugly bad not modable UI, thats it

1) Short? Seriously? 30 minutes? Are you nuts? Find a game with buffs that powerful that last more than half an hour. You can’t. Other mmo buffs last a few seconds or maybe a couple minutes, tops.

2) Get an invisible bag, stick your food in the first slot, add your “carry at all times” items in it, stick it in your bottom slot. As to the second bit, “lrn2playnub” is the only advice I can really give ya.

3) Are you seriously implying GW2s sleek UI with only a few buttons and not 10,000,000 icons everywhere is ugly? What planet are we on right now? HEllllloooooo anyone home?

Get ship together for Snaff’s sake you crying ninnies. If you’re not using food, realize that you’re just plain doing it wrong.

Danikat.8537:

I find most of the time I don’t need it. Yes it’s an improvement but if I’m doing ok already why waste the time, effort and money to get a slight buff?

I usually do have at least one food/tech item in my inventory, just because I’ve gotten them free from something or other, but unless I’m doing something difficult where I think the buff would be helpful I don’t bother.

What? Waste time, effort and money? Three words, Raspberry Peach Bars. ~1 silver, +30% gold find, +30% magic find, some sort of exp bonus, etc. It saves you time and effort in huge quanities and makes you way, way, way, way, more money (I make 7-8 gold a day with them vs 2-4 gold a day without). If you’re not using magic find, you’re simply not finding the exotics and other items that get you the big bucks and the gold find ain’t no joke in dungeons.

Sorry guys, if you’re not using food, you’re bein’ a noob.

Stop that. Seriously.

Just stop it.

RussellCrowe.8340:

On the same token, I’ve been seeing lots of flying players in WvW now as well as ones that ‘stutter-step’ (jerky short-range teleport motions) at a movement rate more than twice that of my character even when I have the swiftness boon. Impossible to report for the same reasons: untargetable.

It’s possible at least as far as this is concerned that it’s an engineer comboing oil slick, power shoes/leg mods and swiftness or something similar and you’re just lagging a big. Could be hax though, either way, something to be concerned about.

While we’re on the subject, I’d like to add that there are also sites with names not quite like but similar to guildwarshacks.com (not the actual url, not sure if that’s kosher to post) that are all over. Does AreaNet acquire these bots for themselves and reverse engineer them to figure out counter measures? Is that an effective tool for you guys? If so, should we report sites like these to you or what?

sablephoenix.1593:

You can take as long as you like to finish a jigsaw puzzle. The comparison is invalid.

Now, if you had to complete a jigsaw puzzle in five minutes or it dumped you in a freezing pool of water, then yes, I’d complain.

No, YOUR comparison is invalid good sir. As a jumping puzzle that was clearly listed as having a time limit, that is supposed to be super hard, it’s your fault for participating if you can’t handle that. What you’re saying is that if you bought a jigsaw puzzle that specifically said in huge lettering on the box COMPLETE IN FIVE MINUTES OR BE DUMPED IN FREEZING WATER (some assembly required), then you would complain about it because the puzzle did exactly what it said on the box in every way, to the letter.

Don’t buy the jigsaw puzzle that advertises those features. Similarly, don’t do the OPTIONAL jump puzzle whose rewards are acquirable elsewhere. If someone starts complaining that it hurts real bad when they punch themselves in the face, you’d probably tell them that the best solution is to stop punching themselves in the face, right?

So dude, stop punching yourself in the face. Just stop.

As a former manager of an mmo server, quite frankly I am highly disappointed, though not surprised, by the reaction of people in the community to things like this jumping puzzle. Are you guys seriously complaining about an optional piece of bonus content thrown in as a special challenge? Emphasis on challenge. It’s supposed to be fudge balls hard, that’s why it’s a challenge. I’m highly confused by these claims of incompetence directed towards a company that has managed to relatively keep up with monthly content updates, something other mmos, including subscription ones, have consistently failed to maintain. Especially when “the super hard, extra high difficulty bonus challenge is too hard!” is basically what you’re saying. It’s supposed to be super duper duper hard. Come on guys, use some sense.

I suck at jump puzzles. Bad. I mean, absolutely, atrociously bad. I however, except this and am able to move on with my life. I will still try the holiday puzzle, just to say that I have.

To those who have issues rendering the snowflakes, mayhaps an upgrade so that your system meets the -recommended- system requirements, will assist you in that endeavor. If you meet those requirements, yet still have issues of game breaking magnitude, it is highly likely you need to adjust your graphics setting. Might I suggest turning off post processing and shadow effects? Maybe tune the shader as well. I don’t mean to sound snide or presumptuous, trying to offer constructive advice here. Please don’t whine at me about not being able to afford the upgrade, my only response to that is it’s not fair to expect Anet to water down new content for every player out there, simply because your video card is bunk.

I guess what I’m trying to say, tl;dr and all that:

Why in god’s name would you complain about getting MORE bonus content, that is utterly unessential and optional in every way, when other games don’t add jack month after month? The very concept of this confuses me. That is all, thank you.

VoxShatterfall.5470:

I have a feeling there is some type of US consumer law that says a person needs to display the content of an unknown lotto like package, exactly what a person could win ect (but not having to reveal the chances of receiving each particular item).

Like WotC releases a card list for every MTG set they release, contests / sweepstakes list all possible prizes that they are giving away, Lotteries list their cash prize levels.

The only industry that doesn’t show the prizes before hand is the entertainment industry like wheel of fortune, lets make a deal, or the weird one that you open 1 of 3 doors (all to “heighten” the excitement and entertainment value). “Deal or no Deal” doesn’t count as they have all the values known already.

It would be nice if we got a chime in from ANET before someone buys $100 USD of keys (I personally would only spend gold on keys).

The difference between wheel of fortune, let’s make a deal, etc. is that those shows don’t require you to initially bet money to participate. Lotto and BLC stuff do. That’s the issue.