very good post. I think Anet needs to take a hard look at rewarding people fairly for normal play and stop nerfing drops and money gains and forcing people to either play the TP or buy gems for gold. Make acquiring gold a side effect of having fun through normal gameplay(dungeons, WvW, events, etc.)
They have buffed gold gain from dungeons since they introduced sub-boss loot-bags and higher silver drops.
Sulk? Hardly. Though I do feel a little sorry for the white knights and fanboys.
I would also question the skill and experience of anyone who honestly tells me with a straight face that this game’s so called PVE is challenging in any way.
Hmm, yes, you know what?
So rather than try to give actual points to your view you insult everyone who disagrees with you? Class act right here.
Im pretty sure you know, who said that and im still waiting for you to respond you my points…
Its really easy, just answer the question. where is the skill in the trinity MMOs outside MT’ing and reading addons?
It’s a well known fact that GW2’s PVE is horrible.
And its a well known fact that ppl that are horribad at GW2 PvE thinks that GW2 PvE is horribad.
This thread, as a lot of the “we-want-trinity-back” threads boils down to players that cant play without someone carrying them or a heal/tank crutch. Saying that standard trinity MMO dungeons requires “skills” is a mockery of the word skill. 95% of all trinity MMO dungeons is about gear, as soon as you got the gear everything turns into a snoozefest.
I have played a lot of the top end dungeons in the most populare MMOs and skill wise they aint challenging, get the right gear, a proper MT and a main healer and go afk watching TV. Yes playing MT does require some skill, mostly placement of the boss/pulls and you got to control the encounters but everyone else just stands around doing what their addons tells them…
ofc you can add new boss mechanics:
1) a switching proximity mechanic: the boss has 2 moves, move A means that if you dont hug the boss fast – you die/take massive dmg. move B means that if you dont spread out fast – you die/take massive dmg.
2) death channel mechanic: boss channels a ability for 5-10 sec, if you dont break line of sight, you die.
3) colour games: having to stand near/get an objects of different colours in an order or you die/cant dmg the boss
4) boss transform team members class to other team membes class: 2 guardians and 3 warriors are hitting the boss. the boss transforms all the guardians to warriors and all warriors to guardians. Traits, weapons and utilities are ofc a problem, but you could do a complete switch between teammembers.
That just what i can figure out on the top of my head, GW2 dungeon system is pretty new give it time for them to figure out what they can do.
EDIT:
5) death race/jumping puzzle. a boss sends the team down a tower/well and the team then has to race up the tower within a certain time or die.
Overall, I fell that if we, the players, better knew what you, the developers, were working on and when we could expect to see it (roughly, I know hard deadlines can be tough), the amount of posts that contain nothing but complaints and whining on these forums would shrink.
Sadly, I think you are wrong, i have seen waaay too many games/devs saying that they are working on X or Y, then:
1) A few weeks/months later they say that they cant implement it because its imbalanced/bad mechanics or whatever and the forum community explodes in rage: “OMG-we-were-promised-so-and-so-Anet-sucks/lies”
2) they implement a slightly changed version and the community explodes in rage: “OMG-we-were-promised-so-and-so-Anet-sucks/lies”
3) they implement exactly what they said, but because of rampant rumours and some ppl deliberately twisting/misunderstand the community explodes in rage: “OMG-we-were-promised-so-and-so-Anet-sucks/lies”.
Yes a part of the community might be able to take those kind of “we are dreaming about” devs posts, but way too often it ends in QQ/rage posts.
Im not saying that the devs should stay silent, but i would advice against anything concrete until a-net knows with 100% certainty that they can implement.
Im guessing that you are talking about story mode…
On my full geared lvl 80 guardian i can face-tank nearly all mobs in story manor, but when i did it back when i was around lvl 40 i took a kitten load of dmg. Ohh and your party spamming blinds, CC, heals and the like also helps.
1) Join a guild that is older then 4 months. A lot of guilds will advertise with guild events, WvW, dungeons runs or whatever, look for guilds that have survived the test of time/moved game. If a guild can survive moving game then it will properly have a solid core of players.
2) stand in LA and wait for ppl to spam “LFxM for XX dungeon”, and yes it happens a lot. In the past 30 mins, out of primetime(1 am english time), on aurora glade there was 5 LF1M for non fractal dungeon.
3) Build a friend list with ppl you meet doing dungeons.
My GF hit lvl 30 for the first time today, then wanted to do AC story mode because of the mail thing, it took me 5-10 mins to get a guild group together for story mode. While i was standing semi-afk talking with guildies about the run, 2 guys in plains of ashford asked for story mode…
I dont get these kinda posts, this is a massively multiplayer online game, guilds/clans is an essential part of a good gaming experience.
No guild will give you the game/groups on a silver plate: you will only get what you give.
…so i went for the AC dungeon described in my email, just to find out that all groups requirements for AC are level 80 (AC is just an example, any other non lvl 80 dungeon would do)…
Just finished a full AC run with a lvl 53 necro. Levelled my PvE useless mesmer through dungeons, mostly in guild groups but did pug more then i liked.
Didnt have a problem getting groups, got a few really bad pugs group but we complete all runs. My guild and i even got a good laugh when i join a group of 4 guys from the Luminati [LUMI] that kicked me after they stated that ppl that melee’ed bosses were noobs and that range did more dmg then melee.
I get the advice to run with full knight or kinght/zerker but
1) crit in a hammer build is pretty importat for AH. heal power is a weak/poor state in nearly all guardian setups.
2) why drop the solider runes, when we dont know if the guy is playing SPvP, WvW or dungeons. Yea if we are talking SPvP i agree that solider runes are kinda bad, but both in WvW (small scale) and especially in dungeons the solider runes/shout build is pretty much the strongest build.
A lot of WoW/hotkey style MMO dungeons aint hard, i would actually say that they are easier then GW2’s dungeons, the difference is gear check. A hotkey style MMO dungeon is all about having the right gear/stats, when you got that you faceroll through them, more so then GW2 dungeons.
Yes i remember dungeons runs from certain MMOs with more veneration then GW2 dungeons, but that wasnt becuase it was harder, no. It was because my team and me had spend months trying to get past the boss and finally got enough of the right gear to do it.
I have done all dungeons/paths, multiple times, run dungeons every day/hour in GW2 if i aint WvW’ing and i have no problem melee’ing 95% of all bosses/events in dungeons. I play in a pretty causal guild and most/if not all of my guildie play a melee oriented fighting style. And yes i do play a guardian, in full knight gear with 15000 HPs, one of my guildies runs in full zerker, always in melee and rarely dies.
The only real exception being high level fractals, because of the lame agony mechanic making melee a lot harder then just kiting and spamming.
Is melee harder then range? Initially, Yes but when you know a boss/event you can pretty much face-tank it without doing anything else then dodge the one big-kill attack.
When you got a party speced/setup for melee everything just gets easier: more regen, more protection, more cc, more boons, more dmg = the boss dies a LOT faster = less dodging and running around.
Maybe 10sec stealth + 10sec swiftness to all nearby allies? And a 60sec cooldown.
Are you serious or trolling? That would be so incredible broken isnt not even funny.
Mass stealth has one main advantage over Shadow Refuge: you can use it on the move with a group that is spread out giving you huge tactical advantages.
Personally i always run with mass stealth on my mesmer and think its fine.
With that argumentation all skills(excluding thief and im gussing reta-guardian) no matter how crazy broken are fine, since you can always dodge it.
Beta arror carts? fine.
Beta ranger range weapons? fine.
Warrior? actually needs a buff, since the class got nerf a few times because it got skills that might destroy ppl if they dont dodge…
Explain to me before the buff to shattered strength everyone was still getting owned by the Shatter Cat build. hmm explain please.
If you cant its not Op in anyway shape or form you guys are totally missing the point of the basics of pvp FREAKIN dodge dodge dodge kite kite kite use ur kitten stun breakers use ur condition removals the blurred frenzy combo is among the easiest to dodge EVER!
IF you dont use your skills that can negate that combo then thats your own fault tbh you deserve to be killed 10 times over.
Dont understand what you are trying to say…are you saying that the shatter cat build is easy to counter or that all combo’s and skills in the game are perfectly balanced since you can dodge all dmg skills?
the skill level needed to play a Mesmer far exceeds that of most – if not all other class bar the D/D Ele bunker build.
If we are talking WvW, i strongly disagree. The mesmer might be one of the easiest classes to play. Yes you cant spam 2 buttons and win but you can play with a bad case of tunnel vision and still survive better then near all other classes. For me degree of difficulty of a class is as much about getting the kills as it is about avoid getting killed when you are on the short end of the stick.
And compared to nearly all other classes the mesmer has better and easier to use escape tools.
And as i have said in other threads: we get useful stuff for our PvE suckiness and lack of reliable/sustained aoe.
Trust me it comes in light, medium and heavy…the names(like knight, zerker, carrion and rampager) of armour in GW2 is a synonym for a specific stat combination.
Seriously, this is coming from an Engineer doing WvW and SPvP.
From the engi perspective i agree with your post, but ALL classes are OP compared to engi right now
From a mesmers PoV:
Clones/shatter is fine, except the shattered strength is too OP right now. Blink, mirror images+2 on GS/staff, F3 then double dodge weapon swap sword 2, again 2 for immo, then F1 and you can nearly destory any class in melee before they even know what hit them.
5. Confusion is fine as it is.
6. Before i played a mesmer i thought that portal was fine and after i started playing mesmer i still think its fine.
My build looks like this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8dlwzipnVzpGbNJypCMHqHan19dkK0alUYbXIA;TgAg1CqoKy4lwLrPuik+A
This is mainly for small scale(group vs X). Since its pretty random what classes/setups we run in our small groups my main job is to make sure that the group always has perma swiftness(focus + superior rune of the centaur) + an escape route with portal+mass stealth so we can attack larger groups and get away without losing anyone.
EDIT: i switch between mirror images and feedback lot.
Armour+weapons P/T/V + jewels knight(prec, tgh, power) makes able to stay closer to the battleline and make sure our heavy classes aint left behind.
…Trust me will happen to all of u, i have 1000 hours played, legendaries, etc, you WILL get to the point where ur tired of PVE and want to focus PVP, it happens in every MMO.
Thats why we got WvW, and i will properly keep playing for months if not years because of that. Spvp becomes stale really fast, WvW is still fantastic fun.
EDIT:
Yes, i do agree that they need to do something to SPvP, i normally like/love battlegrounds/group vs group PvP but SPvP/Conquest(game modes) just bores me to tears. Personally i perfer group vs group fighting, not my entire team spread out fighting alone or in 2/3ies.
Well i run p/v/t gear + knight jewels for WvW with superior rune of the centaur, but i am build for group play. So not your standard glasscannon mesmer.
It’s a simple thing really. If you put effort into something then it has a value for you. If then someone comes by and gets it cheaply, the value of your effort suddenly is compared to the cheap way. Originally the achievement had the value of what you put into it. And all of a sudden someone invalidates it by giving it a different value.
For example, if it takes you 20 hours of gameplay to get something and somebody buys it for 10 bucks worth of gems. Then your 20 hours are no longer represented by the effort but the money value. In this case 10 bucks for 20 hours of gaming effort.
There is value in putting forth the time and effort into developing your character. When you do so, your accomplishments elicit recognition and acknowledgement from friends and peers.
So what you are saying is that, IF i have low self-esteem and cant take pride in my own effort GW2 is P2W?
I need other ppl’s grind to validate my own grind? what!?!
i dont see how we are OP i really think thats a L2p issue right thier mesmer is easy to counter if u take the time and play it urself to an extent of knowing a bit about the class.
If you dont see how mesmer are borderline ridiculous in small scale WvW with portal, teleport, mass stealth/group quickness – “scatter cat” build – then you are playing the mesmer wrong.
Osicat is a really good mesmer and following his setup, i have little trouble taking on 2-3 players and either wining or getting away from them. Yea the thief can do the same, and that class is also pretty ridiculous because of the stealth but comparing a warrior with a mesmer in small scale is laughable.
The big difference between mesmer/theif and the other classes is the crazy “escapability” of those 2 classes making them nearly impossible to kill even against 3-4 guys at once. [EDIT: D/D ele’s can get nearly the same escapability]
Yea you can nitpick any class skill and say: look thats OP, its when you combining all the things that you see the whole picture.
Finally got my mesmer to lvl 80 today and took it for a spin in WvW. In smale scale the mesmer just hands down beats all the other classes i have played (warrior, necro, guardian, ranger and engi), the mesmers combination of firepower and survivability through “mobility” is just so over the top. Just a crazy overpowered class in PvP – but a LOT of fun.
Personally i think its fitting since it was hell levelling it through PvE.
I have done AC a 100 times with experienced guildies, random/first time guildies and pugs and only had a problem with Rumblus the very first time i did it.
Its real easy:
1) everyone in melee
2) everyone dodge behind Rumblus, when he stands up on his hindlegs.
3) everyone dodge into Rumblus when he digs.
4) phat profit.
I would say that Rumblus is one of the easier bosses in game.
Strongly disagree, yes GW2 wont hold your hand from lvl 1-80 and then carry you through dungeons. If you want to play GW2 you have thinking for yourself – or get someone to do it for you, but the game wont.
Rangers are…the only class I discriminate against, and I really wish it weren’t that way, but it is what it is.
More or less feel the same way about thieves, would properly bring a ranger over a thief.
Right now you got 2 fantastic dungeon classes(warrior, guardian), 4 really good classes(ele, engi, mesmer and necro) and 2 classes that are pretty lacking.
So much fun that it’s hard to find a group that doesn’t want to skip as much of every dungeon as is humanly possible.
The devs could pretty easy remove mob skipping: make a coin/gold mob in every trash group. My groups only skip silver trash that doesnt drop anything useful/coin.
There’s a serious lack of diversion in the boss mechanics too. Playing with guildies is not always an option my guild that had been around in GW1 for 5+years have all up and left so for me to join another would be much the same experience as running with pugs.
I never get this, so your guild is dead/dying but you wont go to a new guild because then you have to socialize with new people. Yes the first run with a new guild would properly be a bit puggish, but the next run should be a lot smoother.
CM is one of the most nonsensical dungeons in GW2. It’s all about memorizing the exact ways in which you must move and pull mobs.
To be honest nearly all dungeons in any game is about memorizing the “right/easy” way of doing things :-P
But you are 100% right Al Zheimer, CM might be the dungeon with least wiggle room, i still like it (might be the setting and difficulty – you just cant faceroll the trash there).
Love the dungeons, you got story mode for pugs/undergeared ppl and exp mode for ppl that are more organized.
I play with in a casual/social guild, a lot of guys in my guild is still working towards getting full exotic, running all kinds of random builds and we still melee 95% of all bosses in all dungeons. Yes we always use ventrilo(voice comm) and a lot of my guildies(inc me) plays heavy classes.
So no you dont need a have that and that gear set or class combo to do dungeons in GW2, but you do have to have ppl that 1) know how to dodge 2) can recognize charge up attacks from bosses.
CM really isnt that hard. You just need to know what mobs you can skip and what mobs you pull to a secure location.
First the corridor with traps:
When you look down the corridor towards the mobs, there is a small spot where the whole group can stand on the left side, where the traps doesnt hit. Its around 1 dodge roll down the corridor and on the left side. From there you can run along the left wall to the 2 mobs. Easy killing them.
Cave/Room full of mobs:
Its actually 2 group of mobs with a combo of silver and normal mobs. You can
a) Hug the right side of the wall and pass them without pulling aggro, then run along the scaffold on the right side, bypassing the mobs in the big cave/room.
b) get a really aoe heavy group with a guardian that know how to control mobs. Pull a group to a bottleneck and lock down the mobs while you aoe like mad. The best i ahve had was guardian, 2 warriors, ele and mesmer. Me (the guardian) and mesmer(time warp) did maxed control and the rest just went balls to the wall with aoe.
c) pull the first group, then kite backwards while dpsing like mad. Keep pulling and kiting backwards until all mobs are dead.
I have done options and a) is by far the easiest.
What I can suggest is teamspeak, and ash legion spy kits.
Also for the torches, kill all but 1 mob, then when everyone is ready, kill that one mob.
Yep thats the tactic, except you want to keep 2 mobs alive, at least the last time i did path 3 the next wave started when one mob was left.
What we did was this:
Kill the whole wave except 2 mobs, then nearly rez all the friendly NPC’s, heal up and get skills of CD. When everyone is ready you rez all the friendly NPCs, kill the last 2 mobs and then you got a pretty okey meat shield of NPCs for the next wave.
We did it with me as guardian(def-tank knight gear), 2 warriors(balanced dps), thief(dps) and an support ele. For us it was all about range reflect skills and just your normal group utility skills.
To be honest the “bomb run” was more difficult then the waves.
I pretty much level my alts through dungeons. A group with 4 of 80ies in mainly exotic gear that knows what they are doing + my alt, but aint running the optimal group setup:
1) full AC run = 1 hour 15-25 mins.
2) full CM run = 1 hour 30-45 mins.
3) CoF path 1+2 = 1 hour.
4) Hotw path 1 = 30-40 mins
Note: killing all sub bosses and “gold/coin” mobs, skipping slivers that aint dropping phat loot.
Result = a bit over 7 levels in 4-5 hours, and we aint the fastest guys around.
Thats pretty much “our” alt XP grind setup. After getting 10+ levels, get 1+2 guys to assist you and go and blast through the story mode of the alt, getting a pretty good XP payoff for easy work.
Well done OP, looking forward to seeing you take down Kholer on the mesmer.
When i levelled my guardian, i did a handful of AC’s full runs and even in the 70ies(and yes the rest of the team was between 50-late 70ies all in green/yellows), running with balanced yellows Kholer could take around 35-40% of my HPs with his auto attack. Yea a full exotic gear’ed, def spec’ed guardian can face-tank Kholer without any problems(dodging the pull), but then again a defensive spec’ed well played guardian can face-tank something like 98% of all content, only dodging the big/one-shot attacks.
I love the GW2 dungeons, no more wiping because the healer/tank cant be bothered to do their job. If you fail in GW2 its because you failed, a team well make everything go faster/smoother but in the end its down to you the player.
So keep the dungeons as they are, Robert Hrouda <3
SE is not a bad dungeon, just “difficult”.
Path 1: either requires some really tight teamwork or a top end dps team/a mesmer with timewarp.
Path 2, the last boss is pretty easy even with a pug team. The problem is that path 2 is looooong. Lots of mobs and subbosses/events taht really doesnt give that nice loot. Its our double the length of path 1/3.
path 3: easy.
Survivability is not only related to toughness, HP and healing power, in fact in wvw mobility + steath offers much more survivability than VTH especially when u face multiple numbers. In this point, guardian is far from highest survivability in wvw. Ele, thief, mesmer, engi have better survivability than guardian.
Yes survivability is not only tgh, vita, healing, stealth or running away. Its also about how long you can keep a zerg one in place and survive: no one does that better then guardians(Tankcat engi can do something similar, but doesnt have the cc to back it up). WvW isnt about 1vsX fighting, its XvsX fighting. The guardian is not design to be a gung ho lone ranger, but a mass control class. And we pay for that ability in terms of range firepower and escape tools.
Lets say we kept a our current defensive abilities and then got a powerful 1200 ft range option or even more escape tools, how would you die? You would be then guy with the most avoidance skills, best armour, medium-high HPs, great heal abilities, multiple blinds, most cond removers, near perma swiftness AND then the ability to pewpew ppl at 1200 ft or instant escape combat? You cant see thats broken? I would call that game breaking.
And you don’t see what’s severely wrong with that!?
No i dont, because i can see why we dont have those tools, and we are not the only class that sucks at getting away. Ask a necro or warrior about escape tools.
Hostility, let me ask you a question:
Do you think it would be fair for the class with the highest survivability in the game to get even more escape tools? And its not like we dont have escape, just dont have as many as other classes.
Thing is, if guardians wants more escape tools we will have to give up something else, since everything the class is balanced on a golden weight: if you want something you need to give something. So what skill(s) do you want to trade for an effective escape tool?
Then you could say that Guardians are underpowered and need a overall buff and then the devs, 80% of all guardians and all the other classes would laugh their kitten off.
Its like the lack of range options debat, yes we have kitteny range because we got over the top utility and survivability. If we gave up some of our utility/survivability the devs would properly gives us range and more escape tool since we then would need it.
If you want gold then nothing comes close to a full AC run with Omnomberry Bar: gold drops, with selling useless blues and greens = +3,50ish gold. Then you got around 200 ascalonian tears and maybe a yellow or 2 depending on your MF as a bonus – and remember you can trade those 200 tears into a ascalonian focus for 190 tears and the salv that for ectos. With a really good group you can do it in one hour(only using 2 Omnomberry Bars), even with a group with green/yellow gear and not optimal class combo, you can still do a wing in under 30 mins.
Over the past 2-3 weeks I have level a mesmer to 40. And ill tell you: its hell. Its takes a lot of hard work to get the mesmer to lvl 40. Story mode can be insane difficulty because of multiple mobs, open PvE is slow and difficulty because of our lack of sustained aoe.
My mesmer leveling advice:
1) use crafting, it will get you pretty fast to lvl 40 where the mesmer starts to take off, because of our traits
2) try and run with groups
3) remember to use your shatter skills to the max
4) as soon as you hit lvl 35, get guildies to level you through dungeons, especially AC+manor can be done quickly with a good team of 4 lvl 80ies in exotics. One path/wing will give you around 85-90% XP of a level in around 20-30 mins. AC+manor will give you both gear, lots of money and XP – best place to level in record time.
5) use sword/pistol with GS in open PvE and sword/pistol with staff in dungeons.
6) try and keep up with yellow weapons as much as you can afford. Personally i craft a top level weapon every 10 levels.
Other then that: grind your teeth.
EDIT:
Forgot to say that save skill points for portal, mass invisibility, veil and time warp for quicker dungeon runs.
