Guild Wars 2

I wanted to say a lot more than this, but…

S/P in WvW? lol.

Dasorine.1964:

But seriously… a trait that you cannot choose not to take if you want a certain trait line that is outside of your control that triggers a mechanic that actively punishes you for using it is a BAD idea, it always has been and it always will be.

Mesmers have the choice to take an almost identical skill. We do not.

Please change Last Refuge to be like Desperate Decoy. In fact, Mesmer’s 5 point trait before the optional Desperate Decoy 10 point trait is 5 Seconds of Vigor on Crit! I’ll gladly accept that in it’s stead!

CHRIST!

Daecollo.9578:

They said they were changing 100b, perhaps they are also changing this ability.

I just find it extremely disconcerting that Jon Sharp spent so much time coddling Warrior’s frail egos, but for us we got a singular post from Jon Peters saying “sorry we didn’t give you the change you needed, we felt like it was too logically sound. instead, here’s one that is universally stupid.”

I paraphrase, of course…

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The condition removal in SA requires you to be in Stealth and only happen after 3s if you are still in Stealth. Hardly a comparison to HiS.

We’re this late into the game and this fallacy still abounds? Shadow’s Embrace Instantly removes 1 condition upon entering stealth and continues to do so every 3 seconds.

That means with the 4 seconds in stealth, you clear 2 conditions and can heal 2x more. I feel like HiS is a vastly inferior heal, subject to interrupts and just on too long of a CD to be worthwhile.

EDIT: plus, unless you’re already traited in Shadow’s Embrace, you’re not clearing any conditions like immobilize/cripple, so you may be stealthed, but any enemy worth their salt will know you’re probably still right there and continue wailing away on you.

Gojak.8395:

Sorry for the noob questions, but that would make shadow refuge a must skill?

SR is kinda a must skill if you’re absolutely mired in conditions, as each tick will kill a condition I believe. If you have Infusion of Shadow, it will also pretty much fill up your initiative, and put 8 stacks of might on you if you have Hidden Assassin.

SR is kind of hard to leave out of most builds, really…

stof is correct, venoms stack UP TO the duration that is listed on their tooltip, not per application..

also, those traps are all garbage through and through.

Jakare.6807:

This is what I mean, I think it’s TOO effective as of right now, because there’s no other ability aside from maybe a Mesmer’s portal, that can give you such a huge retreat option, especially when combined with stealthing. It’s also a very low initiative cost for what it provides.

If you’re using it as an escape from a group, it takes very little thought to have one man stand on the visible marker where we’ll port back too, and it’s pretty much game over. Too much cortex usage required for that, I guess, however.

In a 1v1, I don’t see how that would be all that relevant, in that most fights wouldn’t drag on for that far. Plus, it requires a lot of forethought when/where to place it, so it’s not a mindless skill.

Dakan.9463:

On a side note: IF we get increased mobility that would be good but it doesn’t change the fact that shadow arts is now a lot less useful (and that’s mainly because revealed is applied every time and not just on attacks.

That change…it never happened, dude…

But it should have. It really should have.

It wouldn’t make SA less useful, unless you rely on chain stealthing to regen health because you got beat up by your opponent, instead of accepting the loss like a man…

Dasboba.1652:

I once went to use it as a gap closer, when it must have still been on cooldown. It teleported me back and I actually got a short (like 1s) loading screen. That cracked me up. I do wish it had a timer or something to let me know when it’s reset. Sometimes even when the icon has changed it still shadowsteps me back. I guess that means I left the range?

Has happened to me before (loading screen) which is comical, but whatever.

As for timer, the icon both on your action bar and your buff bar will tell you if it’s on CD…the icon on your buff bar tells you exactly how many seconds are left.

I’ve never been ported back after the CD, actually the opposite: i attacked when i wanted to port back, which is usually a product of hitting an attack too soon after casting IS (confirmed bug).

Only thing they can do to “fix” stealth IMO is what they had planned to do in the first place. Adding revealed on destealth adds err of counterplay to stealth, forcing them to use it as an attack or evade.

No one in PvP is actually affected by the second, only PvE. I’m really getting tired of people like whiterose above who have the feeling that this has changed thieves in any way from stripping them of their pride 1v1. It’s a pretty big nerf in PvE, where we are already falling behind, and I think this was just a terrible idea.

3 seconds after reveal would: see an end to stealth stomps, as most people can interrupt the thief mid-stomp and put them on revealed. this makes it effectively less stupid than most other modified stomps, so problem solved.

it would also see a way to “counter” stealth, by CCing them before/durring stealth and forcing the thief to panic about not completing their attack on time, and going revealed.

6 seconds of revealed makes no sense. It would further diminish viability in PvE, where no thieves is commonplace, and would cause a lot of problems overall. Fix what needs to be fixed.

EDIT: I say this with all sincerity, but anyone who says there is a tangible difference between the 3 and 4 second reveal in PvP when fighting against a thief is just experiencing a placebo effect.

It will affect S/x gameplay heavily…

…in a positive way.

Not sure how you see this as a bad thing, but I think it’s essential to our slippery nature. Need more distance to close the gap, try D/P off set. Otherwise, thank god IS can get you out of sticky situations when you need it.

Ekemeister.8905:

…one of the most logically sound indictments of thief nerf BS

I approve of the above post. It is 100% on the spot.

Too bad ANet approves of tears more…

I’m wracking my brain to find that point as well…

Thiefs iZ gr8 @ killz guise hoo haz n0 use condishun cleerZ?

rootnode.9546:

My “glassy” corpse is actually full toughness. That extra second doesn’t help me in terms of survivability, but actually in terms of fighting back.

That is the most pathetic excuse I’ve ever heard. If the difference between three and four seconds is game breaking in your eyes, sounds like a learn to play issue. That one second has not modified my play style in the least bit, and if you were getting stealthed on EVERY 3 seconds, someone needs to teach you how to dodge/evade/gain distance (or play a mesmer, in general).

This conversation is in the context of x/D, and yes it would absolutely pigeonhole any x/D thief to use backstab. P/D just going to auto attack and use your terrible other skills? Bleed is gone, you’d only be stacking Vuln (which would probably max at 10 stacks at best and be easily cleansed). Probably the worst idea on the forums.

lol.

K, nvm, flame on

Furthermore, this is suggesting that there should only be one way to play a thief: Backstab.

Guess what? I don’t want to backstab.

This is not a good idea. Unlike other professions, we cannot switch to another weapon set and use the abilities on those.

2 C&D’s = our entire bar of initiative.

Furthermore, forcing people to trait into preparedness (trickery is a terrible trait line), how do you see that as a good idea..?

Stick to the SotG nerfs, keep or reduce the current revealed (IDGAF either way) and we’re fine.

twoscoops.6913:

Replied just to bring the thread back up to main page.

Please Anet any form of communication would be appreciated.

Warriors are doing 40K crits with Hundred Blades as we’re speaking. Why didn’t THEY get a pve nerf?

Obviously they did, it now takes them an extra second to do. Mega nerf.

They need to stick to their guns and commit to the changes in SotG. This nerf effects nothing, except PvE thieves (which are not me, so sucks for them.)

No one is complaining that people are going stealth and then attacking. When we do that, the fight continues as normal for 3 (now 4) seconds until we do it again, and they have another chance to dodge/block/interupt/evade. Your change makes it almost impossible to hit a competent playing in the back (lack of deception) and makes waste of an entire traitline (arguably our best.)

Initially, the big problem was culling, adding potentially an extra second after we came out of stealth. That is no longer a problem. Now the big problem is “QQ the thief was losing, so he stealthed and ran!”

That is the issue that needed to be addressed. SotG fix would have done a lot to combat that, AND add counterplay to stealth. Say the thief C&D’s. He would have to make a choice— “do I attack, or do I run?” If he runs, he’s only got those couple of seconds before he’s on CD for another revealed debuff, giving ample time for his enemy to still counter this escape. Furthermore, if your enemy is smart, he could throw down some CC (lots of AOE CC) or try and keep the thieve snared throughout the fight. Then when the thief goes stealth, if he doesn’t get a chance to make his attack, he’s SOL until the debuff wears off.

Your change is poorly thought out, because it completely relegates our primary defense to a handful of utilities skills that I might not even want to take, and are on long CDs. Hell, a mesmer would have more access to stealth potentially, which is just stupid.

Daendur.2357:

Rizzy.8293:

Remove stealth, give high hp and allow rifle wielding :>

it is called warrior.

you have multiple options for pve not requiring stealth.
move on

Don’t quote me, but I think he was being cheeky there, Dae…

rootnode.9546:

Yes, thieves rely on burst, but it was a bit too high to begin with imho.

Then how do you support this change that was recently made, when it modifies roughly…oh… 0% OF YOUR F’ING ARGUMENT!

I’m growing increasingly weary of people suggesting that this change effects burst builds. It does not in the slightest. Your entire argument is completely invalid. Thieves can still do everything they did to you before. If their burst was really that high, explain how this change is helping when, for all intents and purposes, you’d be dead by the end of it anyway? An extra second before they stealth and stomp on your glassy corpse?

Christ.

No, I’m pretty sure he read what you wrote. It is not a good idea. At all…

and I 100% agree:
Stop. Nothing needs a re-work.

I’m at work and bored, but I’m curious to see if anyone has noticed whether or not BV will now stun and pull your target now that the immobilize has been removed from the venom?

This could have slightly interesting consequences, as before it would essentially only serve as a ranged venom delivery system, but would not complete the pull due to (what I assumed was) the immobilize…

Hasted PW’s are the thieve’s answer to fury HB warriors, and we know what kind of reputation they have…

It is my understanding that was a bug, considering its D/P counterpart needed to land to get their Shadowstep. Either way, yes, it was wildly unbalanced, not to mention silly, and this does not need to be revisited.

Right, because you are…

Case closed?

It’s obvious then. They individually nerfed you.

Soz…

Arekai.5698:

Hey Jon, if you care so much about your precious thieves, how about us rangers? When do we get some love from you? We are rotting for months now.

Jon actually just screwed us over, feel free to take him… Don’t expect good results.

awgardner.9634:

Sounds to me like someone has been worked over by a P/D Thief a time or two I feel your pain, I really do… That’s why I rolled one !

Na, I have absolutely no problem with them, they are kitten poor against S/D. But they are generally for people who don’t like to get their hands dirty, and that is what a lot of the outcry is about in the forums. Also Mug>C&D>BS, which was supposed to be addressed, was not. Nothing that is ACTUALLY a problem with the class, as per the SotG, was actually touched, which is a massive disappointment to anyone that plays the game with tact.

awgardner.9634:

Define badly please ?

Is it a Thief that hits the easy button ?
Is it a Thief that utilizes his tools and functions to facilitate victory ?

Badly is someone who relies on stealth as a crutch, rather than a tool. Obviously you play P/D, so I guess someone a lot like you.

lol.

awgardner.9634:

Are you a thief hater…

Yep. I absolutely hate badly played thieves, which the prior change would have greatly reduced.

aa…aa…. AHHH….JON PETERS MAKE LAIKA ANGRY!!!!

Hexalot.8194:

No nerf to Mug damage either …
it looks like thiefs in WvW at least… just dodged a huge * bullet… at least for a little while… LOL.

no. we didn’t “dodge a bullet.” bad thieves did. trolls did.

people who play the class in a cogent manner just got trolled, and it is extremely frustrating.

Pretty much everyone seemed content with the original “revealed on destealth” proposal, I just cannot wrap my mind around this. It gave a sense of “counterplay” in that if you could hold off the thief via CC or your own mobility, you would have 3 seconds of burst-free, full visibility combat.

Instead, it’s business as usual, with a pathetic one second debuff addition. I am extremely displeased with the changes, not because I feel it is game breaking (it’s not, and it won’t affect me much at all) but because we were clued into something that was almost a universal plus, and just got a bunch of random bogus changes…

Can we get any Dev feedback as to what happened here? Are these changes still in the works, or were they scrapped, or…W T F??

Healing seed is ranger stolen item, I believe…

stof.9341:

And -33% damage/healing from Caltrops too. I guess thief isn’t meant for PvE at all.

…wut?

Aberrant.6749:

S/D isn’t usually hard to beat as P/D… just gotta dodge that root. Most S/D players I’ve come across can’t do much when the target isn’t rooted/dazed… and P/D can dodge like a madman to avoid those.

If I miss the root, I just SR back and cleanse all the conditions. lol.

But really, with S/D, you have too many cleanses at your disposal (if you’re playing right.) and the only thing that messes you up is blind on stealth.

Worst case scenario, I have to back off and reset the fight, but I find it hard to lose to such tactics.

swinsk.6410:

Wow, someone got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.

ALERT THE POLITICALLY CORRECT POLICE!

Did you really just take that as an attack?

lolol.

As it should be…

Rainbow.3496:

SOMEONE EXPLAIN. I just want to be able still do 1vX..

You can, you just have to be good. Not going to be commonplace.

Reveal will happen EVERY TIME you leave stealth, not just when you do damage. Everything else will be 100% the same as it is right now.

swinsk.6410:

I play thief because I like stealth instead of illusions or magic.

Stealth is a form of magic, called Denial.

/lorekitten

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I personally off-set either P/P or D/D. In a big fights, using D/D off-set, if you master the timing of IF ->Death’s Blossom(x3)->Shadow Return, that’s a really fun game play.

What’s best is to look for an engine in the middle of a zerg, IS→Steal→Throw Gunk→DB→SR…

Confusion + bleeds + random condis is amazing… But you’re talking 20 init in 9 seconds, so you gotta play your cards right…

I generally laugh at P/D thieves on my S/D build… I’m sure it must be frustrating, but that’s their fault for playing a noob slayer build…

Yeah, didn’t pay attention to sPvP part… Carry on.

Keeping in mind, if you get into one of those large scale battles where SB would be most relevant, all you need do is leave it in your inventory anf replace as needed. This is how I roll, and is only a slight inconvenience.

I have a S/D main, a D/D bloodlust set, a D/P secondary, and a SB siege on me at all times.

This could be a case of the missing shadow return...

I’ve documented, albeit awkwardly, that shadow return marker is not placed if IS does not complete. If you are stunned as you cast IS, it will put a marker but not set return, so you move (the stun will still occur) and you cannot break it. Happens all the time when I fight Ele’s.

If not that, like the previous gentleman said, it absolutely breaks BV...

Infusion of shadow returns +2 init “using a skill that stealths you.” Meld with shadows, however, affects “stealth skills.” A clear semantic difference, and working as intended.

Moddo.7105:

Problem with stealth stomp is that it is almost a 0 cooldown. One C&D is all it takes. With other stomps like invul/haste/stability they are mostly on a >30sec cooldown using a utility. The exception being a ranger with zephyr’s speed. But since there is 1 Ranger to every 10 Thieves you don’t encounter that as much.

If you put up a good fight, what makes you think we have that 6 init to cast it? And it’s ok that there is something vastly more OP cause there are less of them?

lol.

In the video, you stealth and then say you can stealth again, clearly ignoring the revealed debuff… :P Stealth on steal is generally considered pretty weak, since chaining C&D on steal is much better…

Not really a novel build, nor would I consider it an assassin build due to the high vitality/toughness and low power/crit…

CONFUSION!