Guild Wars 2

lioka qiao.8734:

And those who pick up new thieves and try to faceroll with them wonder why they bounced off my guardian as I smash them into the dirt with my hammer.

This. So much this.

S/D 10(?)/30/30/10(?)/0/0 (? is your preference)

Zerker/Knight Armor (Knight Coat/Legs/+1 other) fill with power runes (pref. Scholar, although pricey) or even Ruby Orbs

Soldier Trinks/Back w/ Ruby Jewels (or a mix of Ascended both Soldier & Zerker, skewing towards Soldier)

Pick utilities like RFI or Shadow Step for O SHI… button, SoS for Speed, Refuge cause it’s OP.

I prefer Withdraw heal for quick activation and another O SHI… button, but that’s up to you.

This is how I roll, and I don’t die all that much…

www.gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/ <—-Theory craft there.

The cast time is necessary. Otherwise it would be OP. You passively heal constantly, and you want it to activate quickly?

If you’re dying during activation time, Withdraw is your friend.

There is nothing hypothetical…

They said “THIS IS WHAT WE ARE DOING”

Christ.

Kasama.8941:

I agree with reducing stealth to only coming from utility and stealing skills. I feel that stealth is too easy to gain, simply by choosing Cloak and Dagger, and Hide in Shadows. These two skills will give you all the stealth you’ll ever need as a Thief, so players are never required to play fully into a stealth build.

Because players like you don’t care to dodge/block. Please take personal responsibility to heart before you make silly posts like this.

Ktx.

Adaneshade.2409:

we now get a patch that will “separate the men form the boys”. It’s high time for the class to be respectable.

Na, just gonna increase the amount of thieves joining zergs, and cycling through targets until they come across one with low health…. 22222222222222222

But seriously, we will be in a better place after this patch, I already sense the QQ stopping…

But I think it’s because Columba has been banned for a few days.

I think thief heals are some of the most balanced heals in game, and should be left as-is.

Jon Peters said STFU to all the kids crying about C&D precasted steal…but that wasn’t in this subforum…

Yeah, pretty much everything is a tad OP with the exception of Confusion on headshot, although 3 stacks is kinda silly.

I didn’t get my monthly last month because I didn’t feel like doing any dungeons. It’s time for your comeuppance.

Grimwolf.7163:

Dual.8953:

Bodyshot strip defensive boons maybe?

Oooh, that’s a good one. Boon stripping on Body Shot would be awesome.

Ranged spammable boonstrip sounds just a tad OP to me… :\

I think Headshot applying confusion is a great idea, but not an AoE. Maybe the daze with a 5sec 1x stack of confusion, under the premise of “I just got shot in the head, and it rattled my brain through the helm.” Headshot is far too expensive for a short daze, and it certainly wouldn’t promote spamming this skill… It just needs a little extra umph to it, and thief has no access to confusion as it is, when you’d think they would be a prime candidate for it…

Hell, forums are full of mouth-breathers with 8x stacks of confusion critting every time they post a QQ about stealth.

Kontrolle.3514:

95% of all people i know who played the game moved, and ~80% Of people i knew through the game moved. About 50% of them did it because of the horrible balance and stealth issue.

I wonder how you fractionalized yourself in such a manner.

On the money problem, ever clear out your collectibles? I did last week, made over 20gold in minutes…

Amazing, the stuff you’ll find.

evilapprentice.6379:

Also, I love reading the phrase “The O Kitten” and understanding that the overzealous language filter saw the naughty word for urine in there.

Learn 2 Play Issue (acronym form) is by far the most common, based on the filter’s ire for the slightly harsher word for PEEPEE!

Oxstar.7643:

Darkjoy.3092:

Please take your ignorance to another forum and start a pity party post with like minded people

You just want a hug, don’t you? =)

Coincidentally, you want your hand held.

See? Snark works both ways.

I get 1+ gold a day just getting my bloodlust stacks, selling T5 and T6 mats to the TP..

And as stated before, culling fixes will be the greatest addition to WvW since it’s inception.

As for ascended gear, do your laurels and wait it out. I still don’t have a single piece, and I have no competitive disadvantage.

stof.9341:

Only dodges give vigor. Not skills with an evade component in them. You forgot Flanking Strike and Pistol Whip btw.

Swiftness is on dodge (2 seconds, too, lol), not vigor.

Sebrent.3625:

15 trait points in the tree that will give you +15% boon duration … vigor on heal and use less endurance per dodge. That 8 seconds of vigor is already 9.2 with that +15% boon duration.

15 sec cooldown on two heals (12 if signet traited).

Bountiful theft gives Vigor.

One heal has a dodge built into it.
One utility has a dodge built into it.
Dagger+Dagger #3 (Death Blossom) has a dodge built into it.

Yes, you have to invest points and/or use skills to gain vigor … so does everyone else.

First of all, every thief #3 skill is a dodge/evade except P/x, although you could technically consider Shadow Stab in P/D an evade-ish move (even tho currently underused, but may change with the patch)…

Bountiful theft is in a tree almost exclusively for condition damage thieves, so that’s pretty narrowly focused, and again, still tied to 30+ second CD.

Vigorous recovery is the only multi-faceted trait that grants vigor, and you’re kinda stretching in expanding on the usefulness of +1 second in 15 points down the trait line. But it requires you to blow a heal, so if you want to trigger your vigor (RHYME BONUS) you’ll either have to waste a very important CD or be injured enough to warrant such a skill being used.

As for other classes getting vigor on skill use, many have vigor on crit (which I think is something that would be infinitely more useful), rangers don’t even need vigor thanks to a passive vigor trait…

I think we’re mediocre on vigor acquisition, in comparison.

Sebrent.3625:

What if Thief has more built in evades on their weapon skills? They’d have too many evades with some builds… as they honestly currently do already due to easy access to Vigor and having the only trait that effectively reduces the cost of dodge rolling instead of increasing endurance regen … thereby stacking extremely well with vigor.

Define “easy access” because blowing a heal or sinking deep into a condition damage tree (while still being on a 30+ second CD) is by no means ideal…

Sir Vincent III.1286:

One noticeable reason to have caused you to slingshot to the side is having a speed buff when using FS. If that is caused by something else other than that, then it might be a bug. But to validate a bug, the alledge bug must be easily replicated, if not, then it might be caused by some other unknown factor.

So did ANet intend to have speed buffs work against this skill as they do? If not, it’s hardly working as intended.

I’m not trying to be snarky or argumentative, but you’re coming at me running with the assumption that I’ve no idea what I’m doing.

Speed buff aids in the effectiveness of most skills, but can send you careening off path (and thus is a liability) with this skill. Perhaps this is my problem, but I’m not going to change my utilities because something they don’t want to correct.

I’m not saying it doesn’t hit ever, but for fear of losing my target should I roll off course, I’d much rather spend my initiative elsewhere. If that was fixed, perhaps I’d use it more often.

The game attempts to compensate by some means, and can send you off course very easily, especially if your target is mobile. It is also known that the skill is modulated by speed buffs, so SoS may cause some of the problems I experience. I’m too lazy to tinker around, tho I may try tonight and make videos (without chalkboard scratches).

To say the skill is working as intended, however, is pure naiveté.

Sebrent.3625:

I’m actually confused by adaneshade’s need to turn around to get the stab to work. When I use it I simply have to turn my character to hit with each stab. There is a delay between the two that gives you time to compensate for your movement and your foe’s movement.

The first strike occurs as you are still locked in animation, so it is in no way a matter of turning. The second strike, you get about .25sec to control, but the first strike (if you want the boon rip) is completely reliant on the pathing the game chooses for you…

Adaneshade.2409:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I want the Thief to actual steal something and keeps it.

“I’m sorry, did this belong to you?” (talking about the legendary greatsword)

Well I don’t know about actual items, but stealing a random skill off the bar of the player you’re fighting (like put it on CD and have it available for the thief to use) rather than a set skill stolen per class would be awesome. (more variety)

No, that would equate to RNG dictating the outcome of the fight. Steal in PvP was random during beta, and people railed against it.

I feel stolen items should more appropriately assist you in fighting the class you stole it from, but I think it’s pretty good as-is…

Dagins.5163:

Just get rid of abilities like C&D and blinding powder, and introduce traditional stealth mechanism (for F1 instead of shadowstep) with a few new ideas. Give unique traits improving stealth for each of the trait lines.
Popping in and out of stealth is irritating to fight against, and continously nerfing it will just lead to rage of people playing this class.

I’m even more glad that you’re not a programmer and works for anet.

BACKSTAB IS TEH OLNEE WAY GAIS LOL

Oldgrimm.8521:

if im a programmer and works for anet,

thieves would go this way,

I’m glad you’re not a programmer and works for anet.

With all due respect, of course..

Sebrent.3625:

The first Infiltrator Strike you do, you immediately interrupt the cast by hitting C&D. This makes it not put down a point for Shadow Return. Correct?

All the other Infiltrator Strikes, where you don’t interrupt, see to work just fine.

Correct. It places the marker where I casted, but since the strike does not complete, it treats it like it never happened (minus 3 init cost, of course).

The second IS works as normal, however, and shadow returns to where I casted the second.

It’s by no means game breaking, but it does kinda suck when it happens in the heat of battle. Also, only C&D and Flanking Strike elicit this behavior, dancing dagger, auto attack and another IS do not interrupt.

PS: Just watched the video on my phone, didn’t realize the audio was me scratching my nails across a chalk board. Not an expert video editor, but I’m pretty sure that wasn’t what was supposed to be the audio track… o.0

Hey, so I mentioned this in an earlier thread, and figured I’d post a little video of it in action.

It’s a very reliable bug, where you’ll cast IS and shadow step to your target. If you hit another attack too fast (in this case, C&D) the actual attack portion of IS will not complete, and therefore it is placed back off “cool down” (if that’s what you want to call it.)

This could be particularly bothersome for people who like to quickly C&D their enemy after an IS, as in the heat of battle you may not realize that the Shadow Return never posted, and when you try to get out of dodge, you’ll just go straight to where you DON’T want to be (the attack you’re trying to avoid.)

Notice, I can tell it’s a bug because even though the first SR never registered, the white mark indicating where I’d be porting back to still appears— thus, you’ll see two.

EasymodeX.4062:

I disagree with your extreme assessment (and will casually note that there are 3 other ways to inflict poison off the top of my head), but regardless the point is that if condition damage builds are not effectively combating bunker builds (whether or not they actually “beat” bunker builds), then Anet should review the availability of conditions and condition removal (and where condition removal can be combined with direct damage defenses).

Ha, what, underwater abilities and combo fields (off of your own field) or are you stretching as far as stolen abilities like “Throw Scale” and “Throw Gunk” (which only has a chance of applying poison if your opponent is standing right in it)? I’m merely defending myself from your assertion that I don’t know my class, and you are reaching to attempt to stay in control.

Either way, I disagree with your extremely optimistic assessment so we are at an impasse, but I do agree that bunkers have too many ways to clear their conditions, in addition to their wealth of boons, and it’s a tad out of control.

EasymodeX.4062:

Thieves also have relatively good access to poison. Learn your class.

Don’t make me laugh. SB poison is great, but that’s 9 seconds you won’t be applying bleed. Poison on steal, but it isn’t a common line for condi thieves and still has a huge CD. A fleeting couple seconds of poison on the end of your auto attack chain with D/x? lol…

And the biggest joke of all, venoms. No, I know my class. I also know a condition thief against a bunker is laughable at best.

Sifu.6527:

Iove.3902:

…Devs have said that they want to give us more types of conditions. Here’s hoping you can do some burn damage.

They also said there will be no gear grind…

They also said the word “the” on a great many occasions…

EasymodeX.4062:

Easiest way to counter prot and armor is to just use condition damage like a P/D spec.

I see, and with all the condition cleanses out there (especially on bunker ele’s) and the fact that pretty much all of our conditions are bleed only, how exactly does that work in our favor?

Not to mention, saying “roll condition spec” shouldn’t be the only available answer…

evilapprentice.6379:

though I don’t recall if shadow return circle isnt properly dropped.

It 110% is not.

Stealth finisher is getting nerfed, in that revealed is being placed on destealth. It’s fairly easy to keep a thief busy while downed, so once they pop out, they have to wait 3 sec to do it again.

Either way, there’s a 90% chance you’re going to die no matter what, either if you’re alone or you’re with people too stupid to realize that the thief didn’t enter the mystical godmode realm of stealth, and is very vulnerable in his predictable location over your body.

The end.

Sebrent.3625:

Though, are you sure you’re not just hitting C&D before flanking strike has gone off?

Na, I hit IS and quickly hit C&D to get stealth on my victim. It ports you forward, but cancels the actual strike, which cancels placement of the shadow return, but still spends the 3 ini and allows you to cast IS again… Could be something that is actually intended, but I’ve been able to replicate it reliably. Has killed me more than a few times, as I’m pretty quick on the draw with that #5 button…

I’ll try and post a video later.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I don’t put points in SA so I never have the problem.

But that stinks that it triggers confusion. :/

If I let a fart slip out too close to a mesmer, I get downed via confusion.

Sebrent.3625:

A sword thief without shadow return readied is a dumb sword thief (or afk), lol.

FYI:

I’m sure it’s a bug, but if you cast IS and and then C&D (or any other skill) too fast, the strike won’t occur and your Shadow Return marker won’t be placed. It’s very frustrating when I jump into a sticky situation thinking I have an easy out, only to further entrench myself in the nastiness when I hit ‘2’ again…

:(

Adaneshade.2409:

Refer to my post above for the shadowstep/steal less solution.

It’s pretty asinine to require you to about-face to accomplish what it’s supposed to do. No matter how much you want to say it’s a L2Play issue, the fact is, if I press 3 when I’m behind my target, and my toon attempts to “flank” by rolling to the front, it’s a failure to adhere to what the tool-tip suggests.

It may be a work-around, yes, but it is something that should be addressed.

Adaneshade.2409:

I play S/D primarily and haven’t had a bit of trouble with flanking strike landing. ESPECIALLY vs a bunker which is a very sedentary build by design in order to maintain control of a point.

It is almost impossible to land, w/o a shadow step, on a fleeing bunker. This is the silly nature of the skill, it’s a “flanking strike” but will always attempt to get to the opposite side of the target, even if you are already flanking.

It really should orient itself to your target’s flank (i.e. if you’re coming from the rear, roll forward instead of attempting to go around) rather than maintaining the same pathing under all circumstances and doing contrary to what the tooltip says (Stab your foe in the back).

Sebrent.3625:

Here’s an idea boys and girls … try out the sword. Look at #2 on Thief sword. What’s this?! A weapon whose auto-attack chain puts crippling and weakness on the enemy?!

I’m a major proponent of S/D, but the 2 seconds of weakness and cripple on the back-end of the auto attack are not exactly the most useful tools in the box…

Daecollo.9578:

D/P thieves don’t really do damage…

Then why roll one? To troll? Guess the party’s over…

Ok, I’m using my phone and tired so I’m sure I read too deeply into the stacking aspect of the sentence. All good, 100% approve.

Columba is probably on his way to the laundromat to clean his pants.

I’m ok with this change, think it needed to be done. I found stealth chaining pretty silly, and only did it in moments of desperation anyway (ie finding myself culled into a massive Zerg).

However, about stacking, I’m curious how they plan on achieving this with Shadow Refuge. SR in and of itself utilizes stacking of stealth at the core of the ability, so I’m sure they will have a way around that that won’t break it.

People QQing should really chill out, it won’t kill the class, it will just kill bads.

As for the other classes, I haven’t watched, but I hope to Christ things like mesmers and elementalists will also be adjusted.

I think C&D should have a more unique animation, that much I’ll agree. No more crying about people going into stealth, it’s 3/4 of a second and if it were more obvious it’s 100% on you.

The pathing is a circle on a target that is immobilized, standing still.

When your target is moving, you’ll veer off to the right and out of range, no matter how close.

Especially in the context of this discussion, that is a major problem, when you can’t strip stability on a target that is running around like someone mainlining PCP.

The second hit missing, I could care less. If it was garunteed, it would be too powerful. But honestly, the first strike should occur BEFORE you roll like a ’ kitten ape on a tangential direction.

You rolled a warrior?

oZii.2864:

Heartseeker is fine, if a thief wants to blow all his ini to spam it then let him. Heartseeker is good but it isn’t great. None of the thief weapon skills require a target for you to use them. No need to make an exception for heartseeker.

It’s a fine crutch. Infiltrator Strike needs a target or it goes nowhere, whereas HS can be a gap closer, an escape, a leap finisher, and a damage skill.

It’s not all about spamming, but it’s pointless arguing because it comes right back to that.

Tempest Darqmane.4862:

When will the Anti-Flanking Strike nonsense stop? Learn to utilize it properly people, it’s not Swordseeker 3333333……

Seriously, it’s getting old, pick on something that actually is worthless, like Body Shot.

rofl, when was that assertion ever made. you are reaching there, kid.

as for “utilizing it properly” how exactly do you go about that? you gonna ask the kindly elementalist with stability to stand still so they can let your poorly pathed skill strip their boon? of you don’t have steal up, odds are its not going to land in that fight.

don’t even try for a second to act like it is a l2p thing. no one is asking for it to be lolseeker, but the roll off to the right and completely miss has to be addressed.

sorrow.2364:

Laika.8795:

lol, flanking strike will send you a mile away without steal precast. fix this kitten skill already, anet!!

lol?
Can’t really realize if this is an irony attempt or you are serious.

lol? no?

the pathing on this skill is beyond broken. two attacks after an awkward roll that more often then not sends you out of range? it’s almost a gamble to use without using steal to make contact, all at the bargain cost of 4 init.

I reiterate, this skill above most needs serious attention.

I grow weary of the back and forth.

The changes I proposed would in no way BREAK the thief, it would just require more ingenuity and effort to achieve the results you currently do, and trust me when I say the class currently needs it.

Thief in its current state is extremely noob friendly, and that should be corrected to put an end to the whining within a reasonable capacity. The changes I’ve outlined before would be an excellent step in this direction, and put an end to the mindless play style most people put into it.

Any other suggestions over l2p and l2counter would be welcome, because its just not that easy sometimes.