Guild Wars 2

girien.1209:

Wtf…
L2p
/15char

MadVisions.4529:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA

Sums it up.

Dirame.8521:

Mouby.7096:

There is not a single reason why you would want to have both gamemodes in one que. People voting for “no” either missclicked or like to troll.

Are you one of those people who believes that if an opinion doesn’t agree with your own then that opinion is wrong?

Maybe i’m just one of those persons who actually thought about this topic. Is there a single benefit to anyone if they’re going to merge the ques?

Some people really don’t want to be forced to play conquest. I would actually say there are a lot of people who would consider playing pvp just for stronghold.

On the other hand there are probably people who’ll hate the idea behind stronghold and rather stick with conquest.

Maybe there are a lot of people who would like to play both gamemodes, but also want to DECIDE WHAT they want to play and WHEN they want to play this specific gamemode.

Even if you want diversity, you can just que up for conquest and go for stronghold right after that.

In fact a merged que would only benefit people wo like RNG or can’t decide what to play by themselves.

The ONE and ONLY reason for introducing a merged que would be something like quetimes or “splitting the community”. But honestly, if they’re introducing a merged que there will be a lot of players finally leaving this game due to another failure of anet (not even mentioning the amount of 4v5s due to ragequits). Besides that i believe stronghold could attract a lot of new players (who would maybe consider playing conquest as well at some point) and help the pvp-community to finally grow again.

I guess the strawpoll speaks for itself.

There is not a single reason why you would want to have both gamemodes in one que. People voting for “no” either missclicked or like to troll.

Didn’t they say they’re not sure about how much player will be allowed in stronghold as well? They mentioned about 5 up to 10 people on each side. But putting it together in one que wouldn’t only be the most kittened thing ever, it would also imply that they lied to us regarding the teamsize. If they want to add it to the current que they have already settled on 5vs5 or am i wrong? (I’m personally fine with 5vs5, just trying to add some salt).

Another point i would like to bring up is the strength of the defensive NPCs. Why would you even bother getting some archers if the NPCs can be taken down in a few seconds by a shoutbow warrior spamming autoattacks?

Jelzouki.4128:

I voted no by accident lol sorry xD

Kill it with fire!

You’re seriously asking for balance in PvE? Are you really playing guild wars 2? There isn’t even any kind of “endgame” content in Guild Wars 2-PvE. And if you think about it, it’s way more important to balance pvp than pve. You can successful do everything in PvE with every single profession. Why would you destroy the pvp part (minority) just for the sake of trying to get some balance in PvE (which is literally impossible).

There’s no balance in PvE at all (Berserker > Condition), so please stop beeing myopic and trying to destroy the last bit of pvp in this game because you think PvE needs some balance.

If you’re talking about WvW it’s no difference at all. There’s no point in trying to balance gamemodes without any competion in them. If you really insist on trying to balance those zergfests….

You didn’t even come to a conclusion. What would you recommend? Balancing the game for PvE so we can finally delete the PvP-Part of gw2 and run some rly CHALLENGING dungeons about 30 seconds faster and with two new “viable” speccs? LMAO.

The only conclusion would be to totally seperate PvE, PvP and WvW. But you can’t do this, because some people might get “confused” about minor differences between the gamemodes. Kappa.

edit: And now please go back to your PvE-Forums and continue farming Silverwastes already.

YouWillLearn.9531:

Mouby.7096:

You have to interupt the enemy if you want to deny him getting supply. So there is no point in building turrets there (since pure dmg wont interupt anyone), or it’s at least not as effective as you may think it is.

I personally think turret engi would be really bad at “smuggeling” due to his static build. Turret engis are in fact not mobile at all.

And why would you leave some banners there? What’s the point? They’re not even dealing any dmg, same goes for spirits (if you don’t use them).

You will probably see a lot of shoutbow warriors running supply due to the fact they’ve got a lot of sustain, mobility and high 1v1 potential. In addition their warbanner comes to handy if your lord is about to die.

Turret engineer not mobile? Wut? My main class I play is an Engineer. Though I really dislike turrets. Seems to easy to win. Nonetheless, my point being. An Engineer running 2 turrets and Tool kit (only helps turrets). Will have 100% swiftness up time. Taking out the effect of skills jumping you forward and whatnot. That is still very mobile. Plus, if the engineer was smart he would just take a Thumper, and Net to slow any possible enemy smugglers until he gets back with his 100% up – time swiftness.

This isn’t including being paranoid, and dropping both turrets, and supply crate before you leave. Trait in Elite Supplies for 1 flame, 1 riffle, and 1 more net turret. 5 Turrets, 2 doing damage and 3 doing cc. That’ll be pretty rough to not be slowed down with. Unless your smuggler class is running a hard stability build.

Most of the turret engineers out there aren’t even running speedy kits. That beeing said if a engineer would be smart he wouldn’t run turret engineer at all. In a map beeing as large as this stronghold map without ppl beeing forced to stay or fight on a node all the time it’s pretty useless.

Any good player out there will just ignore your turrets and i doubt they’ll interrupt the enemy player all by themselves (especially considering a cast time of only 2 seconds).

In addition you’re going to be pretty weak while running around due to your “utility skills” afking at some point on the map. They could easily kill you on your way back to the supply-camp.

Turret engineers are very weak in terms of rotations, you’re not going to do anything while out of range of your turrets.

You have to interupt the enemy if you want to deny him getting supply. So there is no point in building turrets there (since pure dmg wont interupt anyone), or it’s at least not as effective as you may think it is.

I personally think turret engi would be really bad at “smuggeling” due to his static build. Turret engis are in fact not mobile at all.

And why would you leave some banners there? What’s the point? They’re not even dealing any dmg, same goes for spirits (if you don’t use them).

You will probably see a lot of shoutbow warriors running supply due to the fact they’ve got a lot of sustain, mobility and high 1v1 potential. In addition their warbanner comes to handy if your lord is about to die.

Hvaran.6327:

I watched the stream twice.

- I really enjoyed the map mechanics and liked it comlex structure (while ofcourse final decision i will be able to make when i will play it myselfe);
- I didn’t heard anything about 5v5 or same queue with conquest, but if it is, i’m in crowd of those who says NO for both.

They did mention it on stream. There is also a strawpoll (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Stronghold-Poll/first#post4794283) where you can vote for seperate ques (watch out the right answer there is “YES”).

In general engineer counters thief, so he’s actually supposed to win. It really depends on the skilllevel of the thief and engineer tho. If the thief is able to land a good opening burst and interupts the heal (which is rly hard probably) right after that he’s in a good spot. Otherwise the engineer will always be superior.

Covis.6037:

worst idea ever to mix multiple game modes in same queue…

Katran.9186:

ellesee.8297:

And no I don’t want to play ranked and wait in queue for 15 minutes!

We have ~2 min q’s in Eu. Except for nights, ofc. Is it really that bad in NA?

It depends on your MMR i guess. Some of us on eu have to wait 8min+ as well.

sMihaly.1492:

Same queue = not gonna play it.

In fact i will ALT-F4 and cause a lot of 4vs5.

Liberis.9573:

I am much more interested in Stronghold than Conquest, and I don’t want to have to dodge queues in order to play it exclusively.

Thanks for your time.

Cynz.9437:

Ostricheggs.3742:

Rickster.8752:

Engi OP? Never!

Those suddenly 50 top players who play engi and can compete with anyone have all just improved drastically at once!

Maybe your definition of “top” needs a fine tuning…

There are hardly 5 “top” engi players on EU AND NA…

rank 1 on eu is engi… fyi

I think you didn’t get his point. Or you’re actually thinking the ppl on top of the leaderboards are all “top-players”. Because leaderboards require so much skill nowadays right…?

So basically you can’t jump the gun and say “x is OP” because the current top 25 players or whatever are running “x”. No offense, but most of the current top players (according to the leaderboards) are actually trash tier (not all of them, there are some good players in it, but like 95%)

It’s also really amusing to see all those guys trying to defend the new leaderboards. “Oh ye they’re performing better for their team than others…”. Did you ever consider how easy it is to carry a team if your mmr is like really bad?

Basically most of the current “top” player on the leaderboards are trash tier player, slightly better than the trash matched up against them, playing 24/7. Face the truth.

Was slightly offtopic tho.

It’s also quite funny to see all the ppl on forum complainig about engineers. Well i’m fine with that and there probably are some things which have to be done, but engineers aren’t “the most ez to play” profession out there. I think a lot of ppl think so because they’re performing well….in their trash tier rating….

And i really have to laugh out loud if those ppl are refering to turret engineers again. It’s just like saying “Oh look at me, i actually have no clue about this game or engineers, but they’re frckn op because i’m getting rekt by em all the time!”

Noone cares about hotjoin. Why would you punish ppl in a none-competitive zerg-mode?

It’s called hotjoin for a reason tho. Everyone can join and leave whenever they want to. There is no balance or matchmaking at all.

This pvp-mode is basically for ppl who just want to do some casual pvp with their friends, test some builds out or learn something about the maps in general.

Zoutsha.1093:

Sunshine.5014:

Wow. Can’t believe no one says decap engi yet?

decap engi sucks in high level teamplay. Its only good for soloq

Pretty much this.

a t s e.9614:

4 games in a row the same engi ruined my games. And no its not because of AR , ar doesn’t matter its the fact that he can be ridiculously tanky and decap a point. If anybody knows how to kill it please feel free to tell me how.

I tryed to go warr with double stability it didn’t help , went D/P thief but I had to stay on shortbow or his CC would kill me. And shortbow damage is not high enough .

Literally nothing I could do, when I see a decap I don’t even try anymore unless somebody is helping. And even if I manage to kill it , it still a waste of time. Let’s say it takes me 50 sec to kill the engi he still gets 50 points and me only 5.

If anybody can kill a decap engi in 5 sec pls post a video. I don’t think anybody can so its time to Nerf his CC . I don’t even see how AR Nerf will help? I’m using power not condi.

You basically can’t kill anyone in 5 seconds, if it’s a 1vs1 and if you’re fighting a decent player.

Any condition specc (at least viable ones, best would be a engineer with nades/bombs) is going to kill a decap engineer post patch.

How do i know? I main engineer and it’s way too easy to bring a decap engineer down to 25% of his hp. I did actually manage to kill quite a few even with AR. Without AR you can kill them with ease.

The fact that you couldn’t do anything with warrior and double stability is kinda sad. You can’t kill him obv, but you can hold the point for a insane amount of time (tried it myself) which gives your team the opportunity to come and help you at some point.

This in fact did actually work out in soloq as well. I did hold the point for a really long amount of time, until my team managed to spend one other person to close (for a few seconds) so that we killed him really fast (we did this over and over again).

It’s actually not time to nerf anything about engineers. If you can’t see how the AR nerf is going to help you’re pretty myopic tho.

First of all i didn’t read most of the posts in this thread due to the fact i’m kinda busy atm, i would still like to reply to this thread regarding the fact there are actually a lot of ppl complaining about this trait.

Some ppl are going to compare IP to dhuumfire and stuff, but you can’t really do that. You have to admit the fact that engineer is lacking in some other stuff (a second weapon kit, fear, torment, a lot of stunbreakers, deathshroud, condition transfer or removal e.g.) and our traits and utility-skills have to close this gap tho. Some ppl would say kits are equal to weapon sets, but they’re in fact not. Most of the time ppl are picking specific kits due to 1-3 usefull skills (block on tool kit for example).

Futhermore this trait is the most reliable dmg for condition engineers (and it was nerfed already). You can’t stack bleeding like a necromancer, we don’t even have torment or fears, we’re kinda bound to the burning (it’s almost essential for condi engineers).

A necromancer has his marks which are quite easy to hit compared to nades (which are slow and easy to dogde). You can’t predict doom (ds 3) either, it’s an instant fear.

There are actually plenty of skills and traits which you in fact can’t predict either. Buffs due to spirits etc. Shouldn’t we be able to predict a shatter? What about fresh air?

Imagine fighting a mesmer without this trait. Even now a good mesmer can basically outkite you and it’s quite hard to land some conditions on him (LoS, distortion, blinking away, invis, hiding behind clones, range with gs, chaos storm →aegis etc, null field and so on). Without this burning trait it’s even worse.

We actually need some kind of reliable and unpredictable dmg. If you want to be able to predict everything (i’m fine with this) they basically need to change the whole game.

a t s e.9614:

So your only argument to say that warriors are good in duels is Hambow. Sadly hambow is not balanced and will get nerfed what is left is terrible specs. The only way to win is pop all stances and hopefully your burst will land without getting blinded or without your enemy porting away. Not to mention that poison literaly makes Healing sig useless.

A warrior is like a PvE mob, hits slowly, hits hard,Has alot of HP, thats about it

“The only way to win”….wait what? I thought we’re talking about warriors? So you think it’ll help to blind or poison a warrior who pops all of his stances…..aright, i don’t know if you’ve ever heard of berzerkers stance. Maybe you just don’t know the fact that blindness and poison are actually “conditions”?

Even without berzerker stance a warrior can use Lyssa and/or remove up to 3 conditions every 7 seconds!

Warriors are bad in duels….

Are you kidding me?

kevkelsar.9507:

I would like to know where the counter is for Engineers (my main). I think they have 1 second from the Thumper turret toolbelt skill (45 second cooldown) and 4 seconds from Toss Elixir B (30 second cooldown). I guess there’s also Elixir X, but that’s a waste of an elite.

Well tbh it’s quite hard to beat decent warriors (e.g.) but definitly possible. The “counter” in this case isn’t stability but rather your endurance and blocks (stunbreakers as well tho). You can’t even blind them reliable due to their berzerker stance.

Due to the fact there are many ways to counter cc i doubt it’s a good idea to implement diminishing returns on it. They should rather balance cc-skills so you can’t spamm them.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Might not be fair but it is the most logical solution if this tournament is to help the game actually grow. You can be all high and mighty about it, but my idea is best for the game as a whole

You think this game will grow in terms of pvp if you spit on every veteran pvp player out there? Guess what, everyone will finally leave gw2 and pvp will become pve 2.0.

I still think you’re trolling.

Rickster.8752:

This thing is a PR disaster for anet.

The reason I say that is they promote the tournament and for the first time ever 1000’s of PvEers (the people who must be attracted to pvp for it to survive) get attracted to PvP. And then what? They will be told “Sorry you can’t play because these PvP teams are playing”. How demoralising is that for them?

In addition, the top teams should actually probably be banned from the tournament. If you have a ton of teams and actively decide teams like 55HP will be let in then what will happen? They will just 500-0 all the new players with their full on cheese mode comp and this will:
1, Be terrible viewing
2, Leave a horrible taste in the mouth of new players to PvP, as they get 333333ed down all game

I think Anet should of thought this through more. ATM this tournament looks like it will just be a PR disaster and help to kill GW2 even more.

You’re trolling right?

So for the first time ever there is a rewarding tournament for a small amount of players (talking about the winners in this case) who did basically keep playing over a long period of time even tho they didn’t get anything.

And know you want to BAN the only ppl rly playing pvp and supporting it and give some pve scrubs legendaries for NOTHING?

You want to ban skilled players to increase the winning chance of some pve players who don’t care about pvp at all.

I’m pretty much speechless now.

They should choose the teams regarding their ranking on the leaderboards (teamq). They could limit the amount of teams allowed to participate in the tournament to 64 per region which would allow every player in the top 320 to participate. Regarding the fact not everyone in this spectrum will take part in the tournament it’s rather soemthing like all teams in the top 500. And cmon….if you can’t make it in the top 500 you wont stand a chance in this tournament anyways (and Streaming 500-0 matches is pretty dumb and lame tho).

Hype.8032:

Decap is still too strong, nerfing AR won’t fix it. That is all.

I guess you should go and l2p rather than complaining on the forums in this case. How do you even know it won’t fix it? The patch isn’t out yet right? This may actually sounds rude but i’m so tired of ppl like you and this style guy who obv doesn’t know anything about this issue or engineers in general.

You try to nerf engineer even if it’s not necessary. Once again: Engineers are in a rather tough spot in the current meta and there’s NO NEED to nerf anything.

I understand the broken part of decap engis. It’s the combination of knockbacks (the ability to decap a point) and the invincibility in 1vs1. Basically you have to nerf one of this aspects to fix the issue. They nerfed the durability (AR) to prevent nerfs to other engineer builds (which already are in a bad spot).

Without AR it’s 100% possible to kill a decap engi 1vs1 (actually quite fast due to the lack of condi remove). And in this case it’s totally fine.

I also love the elaboration of your arguments tho.

Weapon skills:
1 : Q
2 : E
3 : R
4 : F
5 : C

Heal : ALT + Q
Elite : ALT + C

Utility :
7. ALT + E
8. ALT + R
9. ALT + F

Movement:

WASD
V to dodge
Spacebar for jump

Professional skills (1-4)

F1 skill : CTRL + Q
F2 skill : CTRL + E
F3 skill : CTRL + R
F4 skill : CTRL + F

Usage skills

Do/stomp/pick-up : CTRL + C / mouse button 3
Weapon swap : ALT + V

Targeting:: CTRL + T
Take target : T

Stow weapon : X

Hotjoin…..#careface

urdriel.8496:

the internal “cast” cd between skill is 0.25 secs, with a macro you can cast 5 skills in 1 sec, always.

macros are considered third party program, and could be a reason to ban a player, but…..

Certain skills aren’t affected by the global cd at all. Arcane blast for example. If you’re executing a burst on a s/d elementalist you’re probably somewhere near 5 skill in 1 second.

Furthermore you can basically keep up with any macro used to cast certain skills due to the global cd of 0.25sec.

Edit: I don’t want to protect ppl using macros in any way, but i highly doubt the ppl the OP is complaining about did actually use any kind of macro.

urdriel.8496:

Kenshin.6154:

Get Good

you CANT use 5+ skills in less than 1 sec manually dude.

I’m actually pretty sure that’s possible. At least 5 in 1 second. And you don’t even need more than that in any build tho.

The OP is probably not used to decent guys who are able to execute simple burst combos.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

I doubt SAB’s coming back, given how badly they messed it up with the second release. Apparently the numbers people weren’t pleased with how it went down, so it may not ever happen again. (Which is fine with me, given my own experience with the second release…)

They didn’t mess up with the second SAB release at all. There were just a lot of ppl crying because they couldn’t make it (even tho it wasn’t that hard). I think world 3 hardmode should be even harder. It has to be frustrating so you feel even better if you’ve done it. Corresponding the skins would be kinda unique or rare because not everyone could do it.

SAB was the one and only challenging content in this game so far. PPl just cried because they’re not used to do anything but casting autoattack on champions.

bring up my post

We’re still looking for a decent thief.

You should be able to:
- communicate (german prefered, otherwise english is totally fine)
- compete with other thiefs on a high Level
- take critism
- play most of the existing thief-builds (PW as the most important one atm)
- be able to kill pretty much any profession in a 1vs1 (no engi for example)

Our current setup exists of guard (sam), mesmer (azani), ranger/ele (tamyr) and engineer (myself).

We try to be as successful as possible with this setup but we’re nonetheless able to play a rather meta-orientated setup if needed. You also need to keep in mind we wont play 24/7 but as often as possible (most often on a daily-base).

We wont judge you on any leaderboard ranking but on your abilities mentioned above.

If you want to join us you can basically whisper anyone of us ingame:

- Mouby
- Tamyr Yv
- Holy Monk Sam
- Azani

style.6173:

@OP

Your posts make no sense. In an earlier thread you said “because every profession besides a thief should be able to stomp a engineer (some of them with ease)”

In this thread you say “the raw survival skill which makes you invincible in a 1vs1.” and “if played correctly you’re never going to die in a 1vs1”

Which is it? Are they easy to stomp or are they invincible. You need to pick.

It makes sense as long as ppl are able to think about it. In the thread you mentioned i tried to explain why your suggestion of removing waterfields (or nerfing engineer heals in general) is a bad idea. I tried to tell you that such a change will hurt any other engineer build as well. The comment above was basically stated to describe any engineer build but decap ones. And in this case it’s obviously right. Every profession besides a thief is able to stomp an engineer (some of them with ease, if played correctly). So we are in a rather tough spot at the moment and there is no need to do something kitten as nerfing the healingskill(s).

Holesale.2640:

It has been stated many times that this is a Team Oriented Game not a 1v1 game,quietly blame anet or bring friends.

Also, I main engi in tournament 98% of my games/wins alone are from me using engi and ive been out of the pvp scene for like 8 months id like to know why an engine with a rifle is automatically called a dcap engi i find this term Offensive and mildly bias.

There are many viable builds that use Rifles people!

Snow flakes aren’t all the same ect..

Ive used engi since launch i have 3,800+ 2,800 of those hours are on One of my engi’s, so this could be bias everything super bias disregard my post. :P

Regarding the fact you’re not even listed on a single leaderboard it’s kinda obv why you’re thinking to know viable rifle builds.

Anton.1769:

1 engi per team – equal fight, i am wrong?

So you want to force every team to run with an engineer? I think one of the biggest issues is soloq referring to most of the ppl.

Anton.1769:

stop talking abou ‘no fun qq’.
Yesterday I fought as decap engi vs similar decap engi at 1 point 2-3 times all battle.
It was 1000 times more fun then playing vs rats-perma-invis-thieves or 2-buttons-hambow-wars.
P.S. engi not is my main class

I doubt our concerns are only about “fun”.

Superhoops.8956:

Yes AR is the problem. Even if Anet know this, what concerns me is that their cure is usually insufficient. A good fix would be to nerf AR by making it activate elixr C on a 40 second cooldown when health reaches 50% health. A bad fix (which top players has said wouldn’t work) would be to lower the health threshold at which AR kicks in.

Decap engi is kind of unique as it transcends balance in this game. It simply ruins a whole game mode (solo q). In reality it also ruins solo/duo queuing in team queue as well. Which must be the vast majority of the players of guild wars 2. The build is frsutrating both on a combat level and on a strategic level. It warps the game and means that nobody really has any fun at all.

I have given up solo q and (more or less) duo/trio queueing team queue until this build is resolved somehow. It just isnt fun.

I agree with the suggestion to change the trait in general rather than reducing the health threshold.

Some suggestions:

1. Whenever you use a healskill, it’ll remove x conditions. (additional) x-sec cd.
2. Whenever you change your weapon-sets (kits), it’ll remove x conditions. x-sec cd.
3. Whenever you’re interrupting a enemy you’re going to convert x conditions into boons. x-sec cd.

There are actually so many ways to create a less broken and less passive way to get a more reliable condition removal. And you can balance it way better with internal cd of the condition removal as well as the amount of conditions which are going to be removed.

With such a change any usual engineer would be more viable in the current meta. If you’re running AR nowadays besides decap engineers it’s not that much of a help in teamfights. If you’re at 25% hp every thief or warrior is going to stomp you anyway.

Matisse.9356:

…

Good point tho. Tl;dr for you.

@Lupanic: You’re right in terms of giving engineers some kind of condition removal. And i actually think they could have implemented some kind of this with the new grandmaster-traits. But ye, we did get a bunch of crap (i don’t want to judge it to much before i can actually test it tho).

There are counters to hambow warriors (a good thief shouldn’t lose to them for example) and they don’t have the ability to rly decap a point (hammer 4? cmon….). This is a complete different story.

Still, AR shouldn’t stay (at least in the current state) in this game (and it’s without any doubts the way to nerf decap engineers). They should rework it to some kind of condition-removal rather than promote passive gameplay.

Djazz.4786:

Yo,
(i play one myself)..

Explains why you’re trying to protect this build.

As well as the fact you obviously can’t play anything but decap-engineer (regarding your own post on the forums). I’m sorry if this may sounds rude tho.

In your opinion there are builds countering decap-engineers. That’s obviously because you’re a bad one i guess.

No ranger or warrior is ever going to kill me (nothing is basically going to kill me in a 1vs1 if i play decap-engineer) or any other decent decap engineer.

If there are 2 ppl and you want a teammate to help you, you probably didn’t even understand the point of running a decap-engineer.

It’s not about 100% winning this point. It’s about giving your team a advantage in the other fights because they have to at least send two ppl going to kill you.

So i want to open this thread to share my thoughts about the decap-engineer and its issues ppl are currently complaining about.

There are already a lot of decap-engineer-threads out there but i still hope you don’t mind me opening this thread.

I want to share my opinion on this issue with all off the ppl (including devs) reading the forums and i doubt most of them will read specific comments in the raw amount of threads about this problem. It’s literally for the sake of beeing heard i guess.

I actually played engineer for a long amount time and i have a lot of experience with it. So i’m neither a person who wants to destroy any engineer build, nor a person who wants to protect this obviously broken build(s). I just want to make sure you’re going to nerf it in the right way. I don’t want to see engineer getting nerfed to the ground for no reason. We’re actually in a rather tough spot (due to the current meta).

First of all i want to outline the issue with decap-engineers.

For anyone not knowing what a decap-engineer actually is i’ll explain it real quick.

A decap-engineer is basically a really tanky engineer build (there are plenty of variations out there) which allows you to stay alive (if played correctly you’re never going to die in a 1vs1) for a eternal amount of time. We did see a lot of bunker builds besides engineers in the past, so the bunker-part is obviously not the one and only problem of this build(s).

The build combines a insane amount of durability with the ability to knock ppl back (out of a point). Multiple knockbacks in addition with some immobilize skills allow you to decap (and even cap) a node really fast.

If you have a decap engineer on the enemy team he’s (most of the time) going to invade (and decap —> cap) your point over and over again.

Due to the fact noone should be able to kill him in a 1vs1 (at least if he’s a decent decap engineer) you have to spend at least 2 ppl going for your close-point which leads to an disadvantage in any other fight going on at this moment.

If you think you can actually outrotate this “issue”, this isn’t going to happen as long as the teams are even in teamfights and the ability of rotating correctly. Even if you ignore your close and go for far or anything like that. The decap engineer can go anywhere. There’s no need for him staying and defending a point.

Now i want to explain the problems with the build itself and the way to fix this whithout hurting engineers in general (which isn’t necessary).

Like mentioned before there were plenty of bunker builds played in the past (bunker ele etc), so what’s the difference compared to decap-engineers? (the name speaks for itself at this point tho)

It’s not about the raw survival, it’s about the combination of beeing invincible in a 1vs1 and still be able to decap and actually cap the point as well.

So there are basically two problems. If you reset one of the problems to zero, the whole thing will turn into zero (easy maths).

You’re now about to decide which problem you’re going to reset. Either the knockbacks and the ability to decap/cap a point, or the raw survival skill which makes you invincible in a 1vs1.

If you reset the second option (the durability) decap-engineers are going to die in a 1vs1 even tho they can maybe decap the point. So you don’t have to spend more than 1 guy of your own team (which is the real problem —> you’re getting outnumbered in any other fight) to go and kill the invading decap-engineer.

If you reset the first option (ability to decap) you’re basically destroying a core-feature of engineers. You’re literally killing many other engineer builds even tho it’s not necessary in any way.

So obviously you’re going to nerf the one and only option to get rid of (effective) decap engineers.

How to do so? Nerf Atomated Response.

Without Atomated Response engineers are weak to condition-dmg. Due to the lack of condition removal we would be able to counter invading decap-engineers with a condition-profession defending the point.

In conclusion there is no need to hurt anyone besides decap-engineers. And i doubt it was ever easier to fix a problem.

tl;dr: Nerf AR, it’s the one and only problem. There’s no need to nerf any kind of healskill, waterfields, vigor, knockbacks or cc in general (or whatever ppl are coming up with).

#AntiAR

Slim.3024:

RaZaC.1963:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/PvP-Decap-Engineer-In-Depth-Analysis/first

I have read it and it’s the same old story.

You guys are arguing that AR is the problem with decap engineers, but mathematically speaking all you have to do is to survive on a neutral node for all of 20 seconds to make decapping a profitable endeavor.

Would you die in less than 20 seconds without AR? Definitely not.

Any other build could fight for a minute and never get a decap unless they kill the defender. In that scenario we’d consider the very same efforts a “waste of time”.

You obv don’t understand our point. You’re right in terms of other bunker-professions. They can for sure stay alive for a similar amount of time (even tho i doubt any profession can stay alive in a 1vs1 as long as a decap engineer).

It’s not about the raw survival, it’s about the combination of beeing invincible in a 1vs1 and still be able to decap and actually cap the point as well.

So there are basically two problems. If you reset one of the problems to zero, the whole thing will turn into zero (easy maths).

You’re now about to decide which problem you’re going to reset. Either the knockbacks and the ability to decap/cap a point, or the raw survival skill which makes you invincible in a 1vs1.

If you reset the second option (the durability) decap-engineers are going to die in a 1vs1 even tho they can maybe decap the point. So you don’t have to spend more than 1 guy of your own team (which is the real problem —> you’re getting outnumbered in any other fight) to go and kill the invading decap-engineer.

If you reset the first option (ability to decap) you’re basically destroying a core-feature of engineers. You’re literally killing many other engineer builds even tho it’s not necessary in any way.

So obviously you’re going to nerf the one and only option to get rid of (effective) decap engineers.

cuge.5398:

Guys…. i sometimes play engi decapper, and i dont even need AR to be succesfull. Yeh a good condition burst paired with a stunlock will take me down, but thats pretty much what happens to anyone.
What i’m saying is that AR is not the only problem. If played well, with the right spec a decapper can stay alive for a decent amount of time even 3v1 without AR.

I agree that the trait has not a good design, but its not even the only one. What we need is the chance to counter play them. A good step could be to put a casting time on air blast, maybe a 1/2 second, and increase the cooldown by 5 seconds.
Then we’ll see with the new patch… we might come up with a spec able to hold close point and counter them, that would be the best thing.

Nope. Doesn’t matter how good your condition + stunlock spike is. Not a single build is able to kill me in 1vs1.

Without AR there is a lot of counter-play für decap engineers.

Stop trying to nerf other things which will hurt many other engineer builds as well because you don’t want to lose this kitten trait.

I highly suggest only removing AR (or at least nerf ist) from the game. You’ll see decap engineers to disappear from the game.

RaZaC.1963:

The fact that engineers decap quickly in a 1v1 is not a problem. They have been able to do this from the start of the game it was not a problem then. But since people have started to adopt builds where they abuse broken traits such as AR it has become a problem.

This 100 times.

There’s actually no need to open a bazillion threads about this issue.

style.6173:

I disagree with anyone who says AR is the problem. That will not fix the decap engi (decap engis are hard to fights for anyone, not just condi spec attackers).

For me, the issue is all of their heals. Basically an engineer can use the cleansing burst (which gives a water field), and then immediately use 2 or 3 blast finishers. The heals are too much on too short of a cooldown.

So, my “easy” fix. Remove the water field on cleansing breeze and instead give it a dark field (area blindness) or ice field (frost armor).

The alternate would be to double the cooldown on the healing turret.

Either option works.

You confirmed in plenty other threads that you have literally no clue about engineers.

Do you even know the cooldown of the blastfinishers? You have 30sec on your shield 4, 27 1/4 sec on your big ol bomb (which is actually a pretty² bad blast finisher in combat), 20 sec on your turret-explode (you should pick it up in most situations anyways) and 180sec on your supply crate.

If you nerf the general healing of engineers you’ll pretty much delete them from this game.

Engineer isn’t rly viable atm anyway and there is no need to hurt any engineer build out there just because you obv can’t handle them.

Are you even playing engineer yourself? I bet you’re a thief. If not it’s even more funny, because every profession besides a thief should be able to stomp a engineer (some of them with ease).

Also remember this topic is about decap engineers, not engineers in general (we actually need a buff or rather a nerf of multiple meta setups). If i’m running a usual engineer build i don’t have any problems with decap ones besides AR.

The one and only problem with decap engineers is their invincibility in a 1vs1 in combination with their knockbacks (if you nerf the durability the cc isn’t going to be that much of a problem because you’re just going to kill them). The enemy team is forced to send at least 2ppl to their close-point to actually defend it, which leads to a disadvantage in any other fight going on at this time.

So basically you have to nerf the durability of decap engineers. You could nerf all kind of stuff like vigor, regen, cc etc and hurt other (not broken) engineer builds as well, or you could go and nerf Atomated Response. In this case engineers lack condition-removal and can be stomped by any condition profession in 1vs1.

Atomated Response is for sure the key for nerfing decap engineers and passive gameplay in general. If you’re going to nerf multiple things it’ll just hurt engineers in general (we are already in a tough spot due to the current meta).

Josh Davis.6015:

So, let’s say we wanted to look into decap engineer, where would we start? I’ve heard a few different opinions on the topic, and I have a few opinions of my own as someone who has played against decap in top 100 rated solo/team arena games and also played the build myself.

In the same way that it was difficult to look at the September ’13 Hambow warrior and point out a single specific key to its strength, I think decap engineer is much the same.

I think it’s important to understand the areas in our game where decap engineer is strong, and then go from there:

• Conquest
  • Situations where communication is difficult (solo arena)
  • Against teams that have difficulty rotating appropriately

So, with the above in mind, what are some ‘low-hanging fruit’ type of suggestions for changing the way decap engineer works, without affecting existing builds unrelated to decap? That is to say, suggestions that would not require significant amounts of development time to implement.

We’ve already seen a few threads on PW, so I’ll focus on decap for now. ^^

Basically it’s all about the AR-Trait. Without AR decap engineer isn’t going to be invincible in a 1vs1 because he lacks condition removal.

Without AR any other condition engineer build is going to kill him (as well as necros etc).

If you nerf AR you’re not hurting other engineer builds. No engineer with honor is running this trait and it’s not required in any other (common) build. If you want to help engineers in terms of condition-opponents you should rather try to implement some kind of condition removal rather than immunity (passive -> active gameplay).

gartz.7013:

OK, so i main a their but for pvp thief isn’t really….what the team needs.

Excuse me?

bhagwad.4281:

A decap engi is not a hack.

Should be treated like a hack tho.

But you’re right, it’s rather some kind of disease.

edit: I laughed about the part where you mentioned “skill” refering to decap engis.

PierPiero.9142:

I play eng, guardian or thief . I don’t find Decap Engi so OP and i don’t play it more. Ok , you can “stay” on a point for a long but it depends on opponent team coordination. If other teams play well you can not kill nobody with decap build and you die quite often. For me power condi engi or berserker engi with hgh are much more stronger , i win much more with these builds than with decap

Confirmed: This guy has no clue about engi. I’m sorry if this may sounds a bit rude but it’s true and i’m tired of this kind of ppl because a-net tends to make stupid balance changes due to whining and/or ppl without any experience making stupid suggestions on the forums. Power/Berserker engi isn’t viable in any way. Maybe you’re a na-guy, who knows. Otherwise your rating has to be really terrible if you can successfuly run a zerker engi.

A decap engi doesn’t have to kill anyone. The broken part of it is his durability (in combination with the kb). He can survive any 1vs1 (most of them time with ease) and even hold a 2vs1 for a insane amount of time if played correctly (and honestly….most of them are trash…). The problem isn’t even the “bunkering” part of this build. It’s the fact that he can decap and cap a point in a ridiculous short amount of time.

There’s literally no build which can kill this kind of engi in a 1vs1 (if played decently) so you have at least to spend two ppl going for him. Otherwise he will just decap and cap the point. So if you don’t want to lose your closepoint you have to spare at least 2 ppl going for him which leads to a disadvantage in any other fight going on at this time.

In addition this build is insanely easy to play and easy to nerf. They should actually hotfix this (but it’ll may take months for such any easy decision….). Remove or at least nerf AR.

RaZaC.1963:

Nerf AR and all will be fine.

I would like to have a alert for the time running out in tournaments as well.

isolatedchimp.2510:

Also, to others suggesting that it’s not Automatic Response that makes decap engis OP but rather their healing, I completely disagree. Any non AR engi with just their healing is nowhere near as durable as an AR bunker engi.

Nerfing healing will hurt non decap engis unnecessarily. Nerfing AR will only really hurt decap engis. Glassy engis don’t really get much use from AR if they have low base health since they can get condispiked and die before AR can kick in and save them.

This 100 times. Any engineer build without AR isn’t even near as durable and not OP in any way.

If AR is going to be nerfed/removed usual condi-engineers and every necro can stomp them with ease. Problem solved.

style.6173:

Engi:
I don’t like total immunity, but so many people think the problem with Engi is AR. It is not. The problem is how frequently they can use waterfields / blast combos to re-heal. Personally, I’d rather keep AR and remove the water field from the turret.

You obv don’t have any clue about engi. This “change” would be the worst. It wouldn’t nerf engineer, it would kill him finally.

I think if ppl want to change/nerf anything about engi they are refering it to decap-engis. And cmon, they’re kitten easy to kill without condi-immunity.

If you nerf their healskill it would be like deleting engineer from this game. They’re not in the best spot atm and you can’t punish every single engineer specc because of some broken build which can be easily nerfed by removing AR from this game.

A usual engineer is getting (hard-)countered by warrior (mostly condi ones, hambow can be rly tough if played by a decent player as well), necromancer (don’t need to explain that tho), decap engi (if they’re running AR it’s basically impossible to kill them with a usual engi-condi-specc….they can’t kill you either but de + cap the point) and isn’t countering anything but a thief (and only in a 1vs1 tho). Basically engineer is in a rather tough spot in the current meta and doesn’t deserve any kind of nerf besides AR (just remove it).

tl:dr: You’re wrong, AR IS the problem. Your change wouldn’t nerf some broken specc but rather make engineer not viable anymore (if you can even call it viable nowadays, imo not the best choice #nottalkingaboutdecapwhichshouldbenerfed —>nerf AR).