Guild Wars 2

Unsure if I will be playing more or not. Since I run rampager gear on my staff Mesmer (I know, I’m terrible at this game) I haven’t really felt a nerf, if anything the gap between my dps and berserkers has shrunk considerably so it’s almost a buff for me. Also, I love me some alts and the account bound everything is awesome.

The only downside is it feels like the amount of grind to acquire things in this game just keeps going up. Gold comes less easily and prices are skyrocketing on the AH. These black lion ticket things offer some nice gear but take forever to find. Still working on fractal gear and the ascended gear that is out as well as having more ascended stuff coming down the pipe. A legendary is still never going to happen for me at this rate.

It feels that every time I find a good way to earn stuff in the game it gets nerfed the next patch. Meh, guess I’ll stick with it for now but not sure for how much longer.

Dropped from 3/4 monthly completion from before the patch to 1/4 monthly completion after the patch. I’m a sad panda over here. Hope this gets fixed.

I would just like to see a trait to increase pistol range from 900 to 1200. Something like this already exists for the warriors longbow, why not pistols.

Just stopped by to voice my agreement with the OP.

Time gating content is lazy design.

I think it would be a huge improvment if instead of Ricochet adding a chance to bounce to another target it gave a chance to shoot twice. 25% chance to fire a second bullet at the same target for 50% dmg would be awsome. Why add a weak multi target attack to a single target weapon?

It’s not as silly as my guardian yelling “retreat” during a fight and then charging into the enemy… Aparently he is confused as to what retreat actually means.

First off DigitalKirin.9714 in your above post you meant to quote Ahlen.7591 Not me.

Secondly a lot of what you broke the conversation down to is very skewed and I would advise anyone newly coming into this thread to read the whole thing not just your cliff notes version.

I find it interesting that people were so caught up in the issue of equity, they never noticed that I never denied equity. My first posts basically said, “Why not 300/600?” To this end, Orion Magus and I agree that 300/600 is a good price.

Shenanigans (as far as denying equality). That’s really all there is to say since you have been disputing equality (going to assume you misspelled there) the entire thread.

I did agree that 300/600 would be fair, I also implied that 150/300 would be fair. The ratio is more important for this discussion than actual numbers.

People initially wanted cheaper, but their only reason for cheaper was “because it’s fair.” But “fairness” in this case is merely an excuse to hide behind so that people could complain about 1h weapons being too expensive. “Fairness” as the definition others have given it so far means that 300/600 is fair, just as 5,000/10,000 is also fair.

Wondering if we are talking about the same thing. Given that there are already in place set costs for 1 handed and 2 handed weapons it would be logical to assume that one of these price points is in fact the intended cost and the other is an oversight when talking about fair pricing. To that end either 1 handed weapons should be brought down or 2 handed weapons should be brought up.

The stated comments that 1 handed weapon prices should be brought down is because that this would overall have a more positive reaction from the player base. I’m basing this conclusion off of the different reactions that happen when perceived buffs and nerfs happen in the game. This wasn’t a whine because I wanted an all out price cut because I am greedy and wanted a discount. Rather a suggested solution that would (imo) have a positive effect on the community.

Your repeated use of high token values ex. 5,000/10,000 when talking about dungeon weapons was correct in the ratio but the inflated numbers themselves served no purpose to the discussion.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Orion Magus.5348:

It would make more sense to look at it as I can pay 1,000 tokens for a sword and shield, OR I could pay 1,000 tokens for a Great sword. Every player has the same option… how is this vengeful?

What about 10,000 tokens for a sword+shield or Gswd? If you got 69 tokens per run of a dungeon, that’d be… 145 runs. Would you get dungeon weapons if they required you to do this?

Unsure what your even doing here. I was not holding up 1000 tokens as an exact measurement of what these items should actualy cost, but using it because it displays that it is the same cost to outfit a character with 5 weapon skills. Replace that 1000 with 10 and it would mean the same thing.

I did this because you seem confused about the fact that having equal pricing for 2 one handed weapons and 1 two handed weapons doesn’t negatively affect other players

DigitalKirin.9714:

When a person creates a character, how often is Cost of weapon the #1 priority behind choosing class, build, traits?

Often, a player starts with something like “I want to play a Thief!” or “I want to play some kind of Support build!” The Desire to play x class or y build then eventually translates into the Value a player places on the weapon that will support such builds. Why do some thieves play p/p builds instead of always using shortbow? The cost is obviously more expensive as you’ve pointed out. Because the value of playing the build they Want to play is worth it.

I believe this makes my point. At character creation and for most of the game up until you start equipping exotics, ascended gear, and legendaries (mystic forge items that take tier 6 mats fall in here as well) the player won’t be aware of the fact that it will cost them so much more to equip their weapons should they play with 2 one handed weapons. A lot of this is because of the drastic price increases at “end game” and short of reducing the price of everything, which would be a shotgun solution to a problem better solved with a sniper rifle, reducing the price of 1 handed weapons makes more sense.

In a vacuum, without taking into account play style, weapon skill selection, and encounter requirements sure I guess you could say, well a player values the look of pistols more so that’s what they buy. It’s not about personally placing more value on the pistol skin, but rather that the game mechanics make it a more viable weapon in certain situations. This circles back to choice. If there was a 2 handed weapon that preformed the same function as a pistol (rifle maybe) available for the thief then the price discrepancy could be a style tax or something and as such be a player choice.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Value, an attribute a player gives to an object, may sometimes be even linked to a non-monetary function of the object, such as aesthetics or prestige. Have you ever bought a piece of armor just for sheer looks and immediately transmuted it onto an existing piece of armor?
What if someone wanted Pow/Tough/Vit armor from SE, but loved the looks of the Arah dungeon set? Getting the Arah skins will essentially double the token expense but increase their stat performance by 0%. That is “unfair” by your definition (twice the price for the same performance) – once they’ve gotten their first set, should they be allowed to get the Arah skins for free just to transmute?

Of course as a player you can buy whatever you want just for the heck of it. You brought up the idea of maximizing your spending power by evaluating opportunity cost and then held that up as what players should do instead of complaining about unfair pricing.

As for attaining skins, it is still the same cost to attain a set of dungeon armor skins if I were to wear light, medium, or heavy armor. Thus it is fair because no matter what armor type I have I am paying the same for the dungeon look.

On the other hand if I wanted to transmute the look of weapons it would cost almost double to do 2 one handed weapons over 1 two handed weapon.

Friends make a multiplayer gameing experience better.

Other than that haveing end game goals that I can reasonably meet. A year long grind to get one weapon is not reasonable. If the carrot is too far away I just lose interest. Work is what I do for a living, when I play a game it should be fun.

DigitalKirin.9714:

See, this is where being so dogmatic about wanting things to be “fair” breaks down.

By saying yes, you’re saying, “I’d pay 5,000 tokens for my dagger to make sure that anyone who buys a staff has to pay 10,000 tokens. Because that’s fair to me.”

That sounds vengeful to me.

It would make more sense to look at it as I can pay 1,000 tokens for a sword and shield, OR I could pay 1,000 tokens for a Great sword. Every player has the same option… how is this vengeful?

DigitalKirin.9714:

I perceive things as Opportunity Cost. If something costs more than the effort to get it, I wouldn’t get it. If I can maximize my spending power somewhere, then I would do so wherever I can.

DigitalKirin.9714:

You misunderstand the meaning of opportunity cost.

I didn’t misunderstand what opportunity cost means, it just makes no sense for you to bring it up here since it is never beneficial (from a cost perspective) to buy 2 one handed weapons over 1 two handed weapon. Thus to “maximize your spending power” a player should always buy a two handed weapon. If this was the case why even have one handed weapons in the game… are they a trap?

Taken one step further, should the thief class not be played since players won’t be able to maximize their spending power due to class weapon selection limitations? There is only 1 two handed weapon for the thief so either they buy 2 one handed weapons or don’t weapon swap.

End of the day 2 one handed weapons offer comparable power to 1 two handed weapon so why the pricing disparity?

DigitalKirin.9714:

Orion Magus.5348:

just confused as to why you think that a dual wielding character should be penalized for wielding 2 weapons. Or from the other side why should 2 handed weapon users be rewarded for only using 1 big weapon?

I’d read this last night and I considered making another point by point response, however, I think most salient points have already been made for both sides. So I’ll simply say that I think the essence of the discussion comes down to this statement above in quotes.

You perceive the price as a punishment, hence your word ‘penalize’.

I perceive things as Opportunity Cost. If something costs more than the effort to get it, I wouldn’t get it. If I can maximize my spending power somewhere, then I would do so wherever I can.

I don’t “perceive” there to be a larger cost to obtaining 2 one handed weapons over 1 two handed weapon, there is in FACT a difference. I’m not saying it feels harder or that running a dungeon takes me 7 hours so it’s harder for me to get 1 handed weapons. The price listing of them is such that it IS more work to get 2 one handed weapons over 1 two handed weapon.

I also stated it in the reverse and called it a REWARD for using 2 handed weapons. So I ask you good sir to tell me why a 2 handed weapon user should get a reward for choosing to use one large weapon?

DigitalKirin.9714:

Much earlier in the thread, I’d asked the question, though nobody answered it, “If the price of weapons went to 500 tokens for 1h weapons and 1000 tokens for 2h weapons, wouldn’t this be fair? Would you be happy with it?”

I still do wonder in complete honesty, can people answer this question? What if the cost was 5,000/10,000? Etc. etc.

Orion Magus.5348:

This would be kitten as I also have characters who use two hander’s. I would prefer 1 handed weapons to be brought down in price slightly. If 2 hander’s got an extra sigil slot I would say drop 1 hander’s to half of what 2 hander’s cost. I prefer changes that work in the players favor not those that negatively affect them.

^This was in answer to your question.

For a more basic answer; yes, it would be more fair than the current weapon pricing.

DigitalKirin.9714:

The relevancy is this:

How much effort is one exotic dungeon dagger worth to your thief? How much time are you willing to put into getting him/her that one dagger?

The game devs have said, “This dagger is worth 5 path runs through a dungeon.”

Is this an unreasonable amount of time to put into making your thief better?

This would make sense if I as a player was making the decision to invest in 2 one handed weapons over 1 two handed weapon as a stylistic preference. In the case of the thief there is no option for a melee two handed weapon so there is no choice. Also, since weapon choice makes up such a large part of the characters play style then certain roles are in essence penalized for choosing to play the way they do. Is this a check because without it more people would gravitate towards a certain play style and thus ANet is attempting to spread out the builds (more dedicated players take on the roles that are more expensive to equip)?

DigitalKirin.9714:

The argument that another weapon setup costs less is irrelevant to your thief. The reason is because regardless of how much or little a different weapon costs, it doesn’t affect how much effort you are being told you have to put into your thief to make him/her better.

What? The difference in weapon cost is directly reflected in how much effort I am being required to put into my thief. Do I buy a short bow or 2 pistols, putting aside the actual usefulness of the weapons in varying scenarios for a second, this tells me I will need almost double the effort to outfit myself with pistols over the short bow.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Tying it all in:
The game devs (the farmer) said you need to run x amount of times (work from blank until evening) to receive your weapon (the $100).
If you had said “5 runs is too much work for a dagger – it’s not fair because there are other exotic daggers that can be had for less effort” (essentially saying $100 isn’t enough money for the work you did) then I feel that is a viable point and then the debate can move to the next stage.
However, people are saying “daggers cost too much because that other guy got his weapon setup for cheaper” (the worker complaining about the other workers who got $100 even though they started in the afternoon).

If the second group of workers never appeared, the first group of workers would have no reason to complain about payment. But the amount of work they did didn’t change. And the amount they got paid didn’t change.

I said this was largely irrelevant because the second group of workers didn’t suddenly appear, they were there the whole time. It would be more like the farmer stated in the morning ok guys $100 dollars to any who come to work for me now until dusk, and I’ll be back to pick up more workers at noon and will be paying them $100 dollars to work from then until dusk. As the worker would you go in the morning or wait until noon to get hired? Same pay half the time.

DigitalKirin.9714:

If tomorrow we all woke up and they had ninja patched all dungeon 2h weapons to cost 1000 tokens, would you feel justified in telling me that 1h weapons should cost 500 tokens?

This would be kitten as I also have characters who use two hander’s. I would prefer 1 handed weapons to be brought down in price slightly. If 2 hander’s got an extra sigil slot I would say drop 1 hander’s to half of what 2 hander’s cost. I prefer changes that work in the players favor not those that negatively affect them.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Off topic:
On a broader scale, why should someone else dictate your happiness/satisfaction? Shouldn’t you be in control of it?

Agreed. My happiness should not be dictated by others. Makes me wonder why people get uppity about having items only for the super rich cause if all the plebs got their dirty hands on that item they would no longer want it… but I’m getting off topic.

Now on the other hand knowing I will HAVE to put in twice as much effort on my character to be on equal(ish) footing to another player in a competitive environment (see WvWvW) that makes me a little sad. Will it stop me from enjoying my badkitten pistols? Absolutely not. However, it will make me go post on the forums.

DigitalKirin.9714:

edit: By the way, I do want to make expressly clear that I’m discussing this in an effort to provoke thoughtfulness, not anger. I enjoy debate, philosophy, etc. and I am having a good time talking about this. I hope you are too. And with that I bid you a good night.

I’m not really angry about your comments, just confused as to why you think that a dual wielding character should be penalized for wielding 2 weapons. Or from the other side why should 2 handed weapon users be rewarded for only using 1 big weapon?

@DigitalKirin.9714
Thats an interesting if completly irrelivent story.

As for the pricing of weapons. As say a thief there is no option for a 2 handed melee weapon so automaticly a player would need to buy 2 weapons, if that player also favored pistols as her ranged option then thats 4 total weapons that they would need to purchase. Ok, thats not so bad, but then comes along say a warrior who uses 2 handed sword and rifle. thats only 2 weapons they would need to buy. The thief will be paying a lot more for weapons than the warrior and the stats for both the thiefs one handed weapons roughly equals that of the 2 hander. why then is she paying more for her weapons? A small tax for an extra sigil slot is probobly warented but double what a 2 hander costs seems a little excessive.

Found the pricing to be a little odd myself but thems the breaks. Oh well.

Mercucial.6759:

Everyone has this conspiracy theory that Anet only fixes bugs that somehow gain them a profit, but really it’s just the fact that some bugs are far easier to fix than others. Yeah it’s taking them quite a bit to fix bugs that have been in since launch, but whatever, I’m still having fun with the game. Now if a year or so from launch those same bugs are still there, then we have a serious serious problem imo.

Yea, I hear what your saying and I’m sure some bugs are easier to fix than others. On the other hand the particular “exploit bugs” that were fixed didn’t afford any more loot or rewards vs doing it the “normal way” other than time saved in what is essentially a grind happy dungeon. Do FOTM get to the next level do it again is a design choice that makes this very grind heavy. Not saying its bad, I actually like fractals and think they are generaly well done.

However, when the “fixes” cause game breaking problems that make the dungeon unbeatable I’m not sure that these “fixes” were in fact easier to do than some of the other serious class related skill problems, but were rather rushed out to stop what… “speed clearing” (time saved dependant on group skill) of 1 fractal?

I’m not ready to abandon ship just yet, but I think my tinfoil hat is looking less rediculous everytime a decision like this is made.

Was expecting something serious but this will do. At least I can walk away from the forums with a smile today.

But it’s totaly ok guys. The Dev team fixed the exploits that were allowing players to consistantly and easily beat the cliffside fractal; So all these new game breaking bugs are totaly worth that… yea. Glad to see the Dev team is prioritizing bug fixes.

Ballistic.4531:

Proving your worth through a game? Sorry to say but that just sounds sad to me.
Why do you want to proove yourself to others with a few pixels? I honestly don’t get it. I couldn’t care less if my neighbour has a bently. Why do I care about the stuff he does or doesn’t have. Makes no sense. How does him having a bently affect me or my way of living? I guess it’s a phylosophical question but I see no reason why would I peek through a spy-hole at the door to see what my neighbour is carrying in his bags.

You are makeing too much sense to be a forum poster. XD

As to the buisness side of things, there is no monthly fee for this game. Keeping me playing for years by having me grind endlessly does not earn anet more money. Adding holiday skins and quality of life changes (more character slots, more bank space, more inventory slots, haircuts, ect…) to the cash shop does. Bug fixes, more pvp map types, and wvw objectives would make me play longer (an extra fractal every now and then wouldn’t hurt either).

Running a dungeon once might be a little fast for a full set of gear. However it would not kill this game. If the only reason you are playing is because you are chasing a dungeon grind then yea, I guess that would be it for you until the next expansion comes around. If you were playing the game because you actually enjoy playing the game (insert surprised face here) then having your character look just how you want them to look will make the game more enjoyable. Continue running around with your friends doing pvp, wvw, even the odd event chain every now and again. Heck if you really liked a dungeon keep doing it, difference is now you are doing it for the fun of it not because it takes x amounts of runs before you can get the armor you want.

If I had every dungeon set I would need more space to store aforementioned dungeon armor and would buy more bank space directly leading to anet making more money from me.

Sneaks.2071:

I agree with your point. I’m uncomfortable with the idea of everyone easily being able to get the best thing out there. It defeats the purpose of wanting and working to obtain specific items.

This is, imo, a terrible attitude to have. The only way that you as an epic grinder can enjoy your shiny is if the rest of the plebs in the game have virtually no chance of obtaining said shiny? (Not specifically directed at only you but to those who hold with your quoted statement.)

If you find yourself unable to be happy because your neighbor has the same car as you… well I’m not sure I can help you.

On my staff mesmer i like gear that grants precision, power, and condition damage. Gets me the best of both worlds.

Anytime I get the urge to play with other people all I have to do is form a pug dungeon team and suddenly I no longer have the urge to play with other people…

“You’ll also see more Legendary items in the future and an update to our existing Legendary weapons. Legendary items were always intended to be on par with other “best-in-slot” items. So fear not, all existing Legendary weapons, which are currently on par with Exotics, will be upgraded to be on par with Ascended weapons at the same time that we add Ascended weapons to the game. Thus Legendaries will remain “best-in-slot” items."

Silentstorm.7531:

Now why the hell couldn’t you read and comprehend that? That’s why i said this poll is incorrect because the poll options are biased and incorrect. Hell this is on THE MAIN PAGE. It’s not like you even need to google this which proves my point i been saying in every drama queen post you guys make. You don’t know wtf your talking about. And just don’t plainly read everything. So your pissed off on something not even best in slot good job drama queens.

I believe it is you who needs some reading comprehension. Legendaries are being upgraded to stay on par with best in slot items. If a new tier of gear comes out after ascended gear legendaries will get upgraded again. Upgradeing legendaries to ascended gear is no guarantee a new gear tier and thus an ever expanding gear treadmill won’t be introduced into the game.

“The new additions in November are just the start of our item progression initiative. We’re going to add tons of new high-level content to Guild Wars 2 in the future. As we introduce the new high-level content, we’ll also roll out complimentary Ascended and Legendary items (to say nothing of the other rewards you can earn by playing the content).”

To keep new content “challenging” it will be tuned for those wearing full ascended gear (or as much as is out at the time of the new content release). Thus it becomes less optional the more pieces of ascended gear become available if a player wishes to do the newer content.

Just adding infusion slots to existing exotics via fractal tokens would have been a much better way of handling this since it would still allow for agony resist but would not give any stat increases. As agony doesn’t exist anywhere besides fotm it is only useful in that dungeon.

Personality wise he is not as good as any of the three mentors of the orders who are all very well done. He can’t make a decision to save his life but gets all the glory for things that you as the player do.

I didn’t decide to play a fantasy game so I could be robin… I want to be batman. Becoming the sidekick to the main storyline was a very bitter pill to swallow, which wasn’t helped by the poor implementation. My first character was human and I didn’t know who the heck this Trahearne guy was who suddenly took over my story. After playing as a Sylvari it makes a little more sense, though I still don‘t feel that Trahearne is any more qualified to lead the pact than me. If anything he should be your advisor since he has knowledge of Orr, but your character is clearly the one getting things done.

Once I saw the dual pistol 3 skill I prety much had to make a thief. Spamming as many bullets into the target with little regard for accuracy is definatly a huge win in my book.

Same thing happened to me… NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Saying “just run ahead of the pack” is asinine. There is only so fast you can go and if other characters also “run ahead of the pack” then the whole pack is actually still in the same spot. This works only if one or two ppl do it meaning everyone else is SOL.

Before I am called a baddie, I have beat the puzzle and it was very frustrating. Not sure why this was a group event and not a single player instance. If there was no one else in the puzzle or only people I was grouped with it would be so much easier.

Human
Mesmer
No Speed Boost

I found out afterwards that I can’t use a black lion salvage kit to remove the rune of the mad king from the boots for some reason… sad face.

The Mesmer. Partly because the Necro staff makes this really annoying sound every time it auto attacks. I wanted a staff wielding minion master and the Mesmer delivered that better than the Necro imo. Something to keep in mind when playing the mesmer is it is very slow to start. I didn’t feel the class even started getting good till level 40. Then it was a whole new game. Traits make a big difference.

The only place the Necro has the Mesmer beat is on the heal skill (6). Mesmer heal skills are whatever, I never found a reason to change to any other than the default one I started with while the Necro heals were really good and I cycled through them for different situations.

I found the warrior and guardian to have the most effective control abilities. Hammer and mace gives lots of knockdowns and stuns and each has a decent number of cc utility skills.

I like to see guardians show up around me. Since the ranged options for them are fairly bad theres a high chance they will be melee, which means that there is less of a chance that enemies will target me.

On the other hand I don’t like playing guardians myself.

“There is absolutely no way to escape “grinding” in any way, shape or form in any MMO at level cap. None. There has to be ways to keep you busy at max level. Almost all of these ways involve time.”

Lol. You are scaled to every zone so all parts of the game are available to you at lvl cap. After completing 100% of everything to do in the game then either switch characters or pvp until the next expansion. There is no monthly sub here, why exactly does the game NEED to keep you busy grinding at max level?

Only time i ever get the illusion to apear is when i’m on top of my opponent. Otherwise nothing happens when i use the skill.

By weapon swapping and useing a utility skill can’t you immideatly have 3 phantasms out?

Mesmers are a pet class. I’m not sure why people think it isn’t. It’s a super micro managment pet class of the worst kind and if that is not your thing… well, you may be playing the wrong class. I would like to see a boost in the direct aoe dmg department to make farming DE easier, but mesmers are pretty powerful as is if played right.

My friend was complaining to me that my warrior was killing stuff to fast and that he felt his character wasn’t doing enough each encounter. I switched to a mesmer and we no longer have that problem. Even when I try I can’t kill things fast. lol, so the class is good for something.

No fair Nefarious.2014. Your supposed to just label a class OP without actually playing or understanding that classes mechanics. From your post it’s clear that you have played a thief before,kittenyour logic.

Seriously though, thanks for saying what I‘ve been screaming in my head for a while now.

Main hand pistol… Make it happen pls.