I agree it’s not good for the over health of WvW but at the same time it’s the fault of both Anet and the players. We all know who the bandwagon server is that you’re speaking of and nothing can be done until Anet finds a way to equalize both population and coverage issues for all the servers. It’s sad and unfortunate that people/guilds are easily bought but you can’t do anything about sell-outs. Some people don’t have server pride or honor and some are just sick of the current nature of their WvW community.
For now just let said server move onto the next tier that they buy into. As it stands we’ve fought their guilds many times and for now the only thing they are really good at is PVD coverage. We’ve had plenty of good fights wiping them with only 25man’s and forcing them to come out of their keeps only to make them run back in to get on their siege, which for us is considered our competitive fun. Unfortunately competitive play for them is loosely based on actual fight-encounters.
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The argument was that you said warrior would be the only one to lose out on a build. At the same time you can’t argue that class will lose out on something they don’t have to begin with, which is adrenaline. The comparison was made to show how much another class loses out using their mechanic for certain builds which would really screw things up for that class.
You can’t compare initiative to adrenaline either. Adrenaline is only available on warriors just like initiative is only available on thieves. Also initiative is comparatively used for weapon skills and adrenaline is for bursts/passives just like steal is as mentioned previously.
The adrenaline drain is encouraging smarter play but currently for missing you don’t get penalized outside of the cooldown, which is trivial in comparison to other class mechanics. Not to mention it only goes on CD for 1 weapon set. A counter argument could be: why is it that currently other professions lose out more on missing on their builds for their mechanics while warrior can get an easy reset for theirs?
To put that into perspective it would be like having a thief miss steal on d/d and switch to s/d to try it again. But since they don’t have adrenaline to build up all they get is a 21s to 36s CD, per weapon set.
wow there were two terrible responses to me.
I guess there are a lot of LB / rifle warriors out there….I don’t think I have ever seen one.
and still my main point that no one can dispute. Just give it up. If you think the warrior nerf is ok, just argue that point. Please don’t try to argue that a Mesmer has two punishment to use clones. The shatter has a cooldown and the skill that makes the clone has a cooldown. Im trying to relate to you that by your argument, the Mesmer should have a build up bar before he can release a clone. Do you think that’s fair?
The warrior will be the first character that will be punished twice for the same mistake. He will lose the power build AND have the cooldown. I don’t know why ppl don’t get that. If you think that is fair, FINE. But please don’t try to explain to me that other charactors face that problem too. All skills and build up skills just have a cooldown EXCEPT the warrior will now lose everything AND a cooldown.
You’re being too dramatic and people already gave you a list of risk/reward mechanics that are similar.
To reiterate:
Thief Steal: If they miss they don’t get healed (from Mug), they don’t get a daze off (I.e. waste of GM Trait), they don’t benefit from Bountiful Theft or Rip the boons from their target, they don’t get the boons from Thrill of the Crime (AFAIK) and lastly they’ll get a CD of 21s/26s/etc. So they too lose out on a build (2/6/0/0/6, 2/0/6/0/6, 2/0/0/6/6, etc), which is fine because you know… they missed.
Ease of missing steal is varied but still possible but a totally different argument but nonetheless that’s what they lose out for missing their F1 just like how it will be when the warrior changes come.
Did they change it so it doesn’t disappear on use? That would be a huge change if they did.
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there is a penalty for missing the skill, it goes in cooldown as if you used it. You can not keep spaming it. So now you think its fair to wipe the burst bar AND have the skill go in cooldown?? Now they are just removing the warriors unique ability. Why should a warrior work so hard for a burst skill just to have two penalties?
That one almost made me laugh out loud at work.
On a more constructive note:
I’m curious about how Burst Mastery will be affected with the change. Will that mean only 2 bars are spent on miss or still all 3? Didn’t get to see that clarified so far.
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Dagger 1 is getting a minor cleave?
That’s right now we can further “periphary” in our Guild runs heh.
How about a trade, for every WvW fix you’ll get a video. More specifically, significant WvW fix not “removed merchant X fix”.
then they dont get any video from the players…
Exactly. If they can’t even fix problems, not add content, fix actual problems like hacking/glitching/exploiting/etc. why should we give into their requests? It’s their own request for videos and they can’t even say why, leaving us in the dark.
How about a trade, for every WvW fix you’ll get a video. More specifically, significant WvW fix not “removed merchant X fix”.
Should just submit endless videos of WvW bugs and issues instead. Maybe they’ll get the hint. (probably not)
Even that variant would repulse a lot of players who are in this game specifically because they can get everything without paying a dime if they’re willing to spend time in game to get it.
Every time this notion comes up, the following very good response is made (I’m surprised it’s not in this thread yet):
If you want to support ANet and get extra things like boosters from the gem store, please do. You can budget yourself x dollars per month and buy gems, thus simulating a subscription.
What Anet should do is add a system where players who want to do that can do that easily. They can call it membership-levels instead of subs. Like:
Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum memberships with proper monthly “donations” set accordingly. I don’t understand that if players want to emulate a non-mandatory subscription that they have to do all of if themselves instead of Anet implementing a system to automate for them.
But if you want to be able to buy things that will give you in game advantages, you’re in the wrong game. (Faster Ascended crafting, unlimited BLC openings, extra cash from repeating dungeons — not dungs, really, are you flinging feces? — all these translate into a ton more buying power in game. If that’s what you want, just straight up buy gems and sell them for gold).
Like I mentioned before premium memberships shouldn’t give those advantages over other players and should only add to the base of convenience every player has regardless of membership level or maybe even early access to certain events somehow. Just nothing pay-to-win.
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Not sure if anyone is even reading when he says: Non-mandatory. What he probably is suggesting is something like Xbox Live Gold member services. Not exactly necessary (aside from actual online multiplayer) but it gives “subscribers” access to bonuses that non-subscribers don’t get. I think a premium account access option would be nice to people who want to subscribe but don’t have to. The only issue is that this type of subscription should only give aesthetic and/ or convenience bonuses (i.e. bigger bank/collection tabs by default/permanent bank access anywhere/etc.) that are specific to premium accounts only, meaning no pay-to-win scenarios.
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“Warrior however… “F1 , oww he dodged, switches to GS – run away 1500 range, 7sec later F1 magic button is ready again, Boom! 12k, 7-10sec, Boom! 15k”. Feel free to input random 2-3k auto atk hits in between.”
Or when he come back dodge again, or as a thief evade or blind spam him, you choose… You can see the warrior all the time.
Warriors can do all those thing with just one build. You’re asking a thief to both evade and blind spam which can’t exist in a single build. Then previously you said a thief can land as much dmg with backstab which is a whole other build. Get your facts straight.
An evade thief has the most horrid dmg of them all, a d/p thief can choose to blind spam but it won’t last more than 3 times and he has to remain in a confined area which can be completely countered by /dance outside the blind radius, a full backstab thief has ZERO retreat — it’s a kamikaze build, that is if you want to reach a comparable dmg.
You, sir, are grasping. Backstab thief is annoying but there is much higher risk than an insta gib 12k dmg that homes to target. Anyone with a decent brain knows it. I have 8 lv 80s fully geared and I KNOW it.
Stop deluding yourself… oh .. who am I kidding? right?
Funny that a warrior can hit with Evicerate run and come back to do it all again? LOL so now we have a new skill called Adrenaline by running? regenerate adrenaline while running.
8 level 80s? WOW no time for PvP huh? Right there.. no experience, I will give you an example: I try to land Evicerate and miss because you dodge, you have 10 whole seconds to land backstab and I can assure you by the time Evicerate is up again I’m sure you will have enough to dodge again.
Anything else?
Yes, i believe a switch to GS -> Berserker stance can easily accomplish that. Since usually if you’re trying to get away unhindered (if you didn’t trait for mobile strikes or have -CND food) you’d use Bererker stance to negate the incoming CC. Plus if we miss Evisc as a war we don’t lose the adrenaline and can switch to GS to kite and wait for it to come back up since we’d have the weapon swap ready in less time then our Burst’s CD. It’s pretty easy to do that actually on a A/Sh + GS 6/04/04 build or 4/04/06 depending what you want from traits.
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If eviscerate needs nerf pls check backstab
Backstab’s Coefficients: 1.2 (front)/2.4 (back)
Eviscerate’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.0/Lvl. 2 = 2.5/Lvl. 3 = 3.0
Kill Shot’s Coefficients: Lvl. 1 = 2.25/Lvl. 2 = 2.75/Lvl. 3 = 3.25
Final Thrust’s Coefficients: 1.5 (normal)/3.0 (half dead)
Oh look, warrior has 3 backstabs that hit harder when properly timed. And it required zero positioning or stealth.
just LOL at this guy. Like is easier to land Evicerate, kill shot or Final Thrust than Backstab.
Backstab doesn’t have cool down, while you hit someone with 1 evicerate a thief can land 3 backstabs easily.Respond to my comment about firegrab plz mmmkay.
Okay, then try landing all 3 of them on a moving target only when you are behind your target and stealthed at the same time. Once you do that, tell me how everything went, k?
I have an 80 thief and is quite easy to do that actually, if you never try a thief, I invite to try before you post nonsense.
ThanksRespond to my comment about firegrab plz.
Electric discharge + lightning strike =1.9 on a short cooldown when using fresh air.
Pheonix = 0.75*2 + 1.7 if they all land
Dragons Tooth = 2.25
Burning speed + ring if fire = 1.2. + 2Combine any of these with a lightning flash or arcane blast and you have some nice burst. Some is spamable and some is not but on such low cooldowns, 20s or less, you have options besides firegrab. Its more of a finisher than burst.
Not only that but ele also has other attunements and a lot of variety in those skills.
Have to ask the question most ele’s are thinking right now; When did D/D get scepter skills too? I understand they are 2 weapon sets describing different bursts but they are unreliable. Dragon’s tooth will only hit if you pray and a miracle is granted. Burning speed is too predictable already with common rotations and you have to combo it with lightning flash for an almost guaranteed hit. And if you mean for them to actually hit you would usually combo it with Air5 or Earth4 further increasing the cooldown on those bursts dependent on the situation, such as if you used them previously to interrupt or save someone from a stomp. Lightning flash is nice but most builds take almost either full cantrips or full arcane aside from the super yolo glass ele’s which means their survivability is drastically reduced.
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On one hand great idea on the other…
What if you forget to turn it off when you are in LFG and someone tries to PM you about a group.Or you see someone with an awesome skin and you whisper them about it and you never see their reply.
Or you are in WvW and another Commander wants you to go take a couple points on one side of the map while they take some on the other, and you have no idea because they can’t PM you
Or your Random PvP team turns out to be an actual competitive team looking to fill their recently vacated last spot and they like your style.
see my point?
Uhh then that’s your fault?
Currently if you go invisible and try to guild chat it notifies you that you aren’t in a guild. If you know you are in a guild that’s already an indicator that something is amiss, meaning to say that same system can be implemented to the OP’s idea. You can add the people in your party to your group which would be kind of above and beyond necessary because you would also have map chat and team chat.
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At what point are you seeing players join teams from spectator mode? Rewards are based on time played on a team, so are people forgoing partial rewards to be on the winning team?
It’s happened at all points in a game from start to near finish. Usually games would start off already uneven as a 2v3 etc. and then the scores would obviously tip into the 3 player teams favor, more often than not. People joining would see this and either wait for someone else to join the losing team so they themselves could go on the winning team or wait till someone from the losing team spectated to wait for an autobalance. From that point there isn’t a choice because it’s random who gets picked, unless someone volunteers, and then the same thing would happen again causing a circle of spectate, auto-balance, rejoin because people want to be on the winning team for a reward. Some players do understand that they’ll get rewards for volunteering or getting auto’d if they didn’t choose the option not to. Still that doesn’t help as many people who don’t know about that keep continuing the cycle explained above and in some cases people abuse the spectate system just to troll people who are winning/losing.
I’m actually surprised they didn’t wait till a balance patch to nerf rune of strength
Hopefully that’s an indicator of their future response time for other important changes. (probably not)
They’re not punished. You still negated the attack that was blocked. On top of that, you now know exactly where the thief is, which is an added bonus. You have to decide what play to make after that.
I’ll have to disagree as I mentioned above the advantage is still to the stealthed attacker. The ease of repetition even after the initial stealth attack further compounds the situation.
Initiative regens 1 per second, and the passive aegis on a guardian lasts 10 hours. Also, don’t forget that a thief cannot do any damage in stealth without coming out of stealth, while the other class gets to do whatever they want. It’s not as easy as you think trying to stick behind a person within that 4 second window of stealth while they’re wailing away and you’re waiting for their block/aegis to end. And if you attack, you have to wait the 3-4 seconds of revealed before you can go back into stealth again.
In an effort to not bring individual player skill into the equation and keep focus, I won’t address the difficulty in landing a backstab properly as it could lead to a tangent. For aegis uptime, upon seeing a guard with it, it can easily be auto’d off prior to stealthing rendering the 10+ hour uptime meaningless. Also on the flip-side of waiting in stealth are the benefits of it as well such as condition removal, healing, and the advantage of absolutely knowing where your enemy is while they don’t. If you don’t attack and wait until stealth is off to auto said aegis/block then you won’t even activate the reveal debuff and as mentioned before the loss for the thief would be minimal while the investment to block or aegis up to the defender is more costly. I’ve seen many other thief roaming video’s where thieves use this tactic to further delay while their cool downs recharge and have used this myself. So yet again that would place the advantage for the thief by simply waiting instead of attacking instead of being an equal exchange given the counters just explained.
Look at it this way. If thieves had an auto attack to strip the aegis, they would have done so. But bs takes the spot of their autoattack in stealth. It’s a free way to strip aegis, just like every single other class has.
I think the misunderstanding here is that thieves do in fact have an auto to strip just like every other class, it’s just not in stealth. That auto can be used once outside of stealth and without a reveal debuff by simply waiting it out. The discrepancy is that not all classes have specialized stealth attacks that have bonuses inside of stealth which is the reason backstab is singled out, because it is singular.
I would agree with that except from the opposite perspective not all classes can attack from stealth so easily, outside of having help from a thief/mesmer. And to add to that their attacks aren’t specialized in stealth either. And even further that thieves don’t have to be in stealth to remove aegis just like other classes.
As with your discussion with shinigamith.7120, I think the point you’re missing is what happens when a thief is already in stealth. Stealth doesn’t come for free; you either have to blow half your initiative pool or a utility on long cd. And continuing Shockwave.1230’s point, do you think it’s fair to have to continue to spend initiative in order to remove blind/aegis when every other class gets it for free, after making that sacrifice? You’re right, other classes don’t have specialized attacks in stealth. But that only makes his point stronger because you end up losing a lot more than the other classes for coming out of stealth.
Yes, that’s what I’m advocating which is; when people want to knowingly counter play stealth with blocks, or worse aegis, that they shouldn’t be punished for doing so.
And for when the thief is already in stealth I do support the suggestion that it should cost at least 1 initiative per backstab. This can be altered to occur only when they are blocked or missed but if there is no aegis or block up then the BS can be free as usual. The suggestion is to prevent spam and encourage more skillful play as others have mentioned. If a thief knows there’s aegis or blocks up they can wait and regen their initiative (1 per 3/4s if i’m not mistaken) before initiating again as compared to the person who is blocking or put up aegis will be coming out much more behind in terms of skill CD. For example: engineer gear shield block is a 20s (untraited AFAIK) CD vs a thief who CnD’d would have a net loss of 2-3 initiative if they just wait it out. So still the person blocking comes out behind in that situation.
For the receiving end, it’s no fun playing as a guardian/etc to have put aegis up (72-90s CD) to prevent a BS when it can be stripped without consequence in stealth from that one attack, repeatedly.
PS whatever that weird forum error is, is really messing up replying.
The suggestion to prevent spamming in stealth is counter intuitive, the only way to counter aegis, blinds, and blocks is to spam them away regardless of whether or not you are in stealth.
The suggestion is still to punish thieves for using stealth whereas every other prof gets to deal with these things for free, even if they are in stealth.
The suggestions is only for backstab and block/aegis, other skills are questionable.
Yet that would mean that blocking and aegis themselves are also counter intuitive if they are meant to block damage but can’t because of the above mentioned issues. Meaning to say, why block at all and waste CD and opportunity when it won’t matter in the end since you’ll still end up getting hit by what you were trying to block in the first place without consequence to the attacker?
I would agree with that except from the opposite perspective not all classes can attack from stealth so easily, outside of having help from a thief/mesmer. And to add to that their attacks aren’t specialized in stealth either. And even further that thieves don’t have to be in stealth to remove aegis just like other classes.
As with your discussion with shinigamith.7120, I think the point you’re missing is what happens when a thief is already in stealth. Stealth doesn’t come for free; you either have to blow half your initiative pool or a utility on long cd. And continuing Shockwave.1230’s point, do you think it’s fair to have to continue to spend initiative in order to remove blind/aegis when every other class gets it for free, after making that sacrifice? You’re right, other classes don’t have specialized attacks in stealth. But that only makes his point stronger because you end up losing a lot more than the other classes for coming out of stealth.
Yes, that’s what I’m advocating which is; when people want to knowingly counter play stealth with blocks, or worse aegis, that they shouldn’t be punished for doing so.
And for when the thief is already in stealth I do support the suggestion that it should cost at least 1 initiative per backstab. This can be altered to occur only when they are blocked or missed but if there is no aegis or block up then the BS can be free as usual. The suggestion is to prevent spam and encourage more skillful play as others have mentioned. If a thief knows there’s aegis or blocks up they can wait and regen their initiative (1 per 3/4s if i’m not mistaken) before initiating again as compared to the person who is blocking or put up aegis will be coming out much more behind in terms of skill CD. For example: engineer gear shield block is a 20s (untraited AFAIK) CD vs a thief who CnD’d would have a net loss of 2-3 initiative if they just wait it out. So still the person blocking comes out behind in that situation.
For the receiving end, it’s no fun playing as a guardian/etc to have put aegis up (72-90s CD) to prevent a BS when it can be stripped without consequence in stealth from that one attack, repeatedly.
PS whatever that weird forum error is, is really messing up replying.
I hope liewec is joking…It’s hotjoin which is the most casual format possible. Spectator is fine, players actually like it and it took forever to get it. Team select is bad? No. Anet can take away team select if they want but as I’ve said, it’s hotjoin and most games let you pick your team in these casual matches. No team select makes it harder for people to casually play with friends. 8v8 was just terribad.
It doesn’t matter if it’s hotjoin or not. The problem is that there is no enjoyable game for people who play hotjoin because of messed up spectator privileges and abuse of both that and team select. Taking away team select may be a temporary fix but they can just as easily add team hotjoin, solo hotjoin. To people who play hot join only, there is no “it’s only hotjoin” mentality plus if they want fair matches they should be allowed to have them if they don’t want to opt to play ranked games.
I will never understand why people think blocking/evading should have the added benefit of taking a thief out of stealth. Blocking/evading doesn’t take a necro out of DS or Lich Mode. It doesn’t take Eles out of fire mode, and it doesn’t cause Engineers to drop their kits. So why should it take a thief out of stealth mode?
You pressed the block button. You don’t have to do it in a special mode, and you don’t even have to go be facing your opponent. You pressed block, and basically you’ve become immune to almost everything a thief can throw at you. And yet people don’t think this is enough? You want the block to take the thief out of stealth as well?
I think a more accurate comparison would be blind although it’s a debuff. Attacking takes it away and so does attacking aegis take it away. If that is too much or gamebreaking than what would the compromise be for both sides? Because having aegis/block negated by simply continuing to attack under stealth to get a specialized skill, backstab, off should have a draw back if you are kept in stealth (or want to be as you put it). Since you are on the thief side how about arguing for the defender’s and seeing it from their point of view? So you don’t want to be revealed then how about a 1 initiative cost per backstab? If you tried 3 times during stealth then it would have already regened the initiative spent so it’s a break even point.
Look at it from a thief’s perspective.
All other professions get to remove blind and aegis for free with auto attacks. Thief has to use a cool down or 5+ initiative to enter stealth then on top of that they have to spam 1 initiative per second in order to land a stealth attack.
That’s extremely expensive whereas it’s free for everyone else.
I would agree with that except from the opposite perspective not all classes can attack from stealth so easily, outside of having help from a thief/mesmer. And to add to that their attacks aren’t specialized in stealth either. And even further that thieves don’t have to be in stealth to remove aegis just like other classes.
Hello,
Currently looking for a Guild for WvW roaming/havoc groups. Have all classes to 80 and properly geared and can play all of them proficiently for whatever roll is needed, except for mesmer, well sort of, I just don’t prefer to play mesmer.
Send a PM in game or in forum if you are recruiting. Thanks~
I will never understand why people think blocking/evading should have the added benefit of taking a thief out of stealth. Blocking/evading doesn’t take a necro out of DS or Lich Mode. It doesn’t take Eles out of fire mode, and it doesn’t cause Engineers to drop their kits. So why should it take a thief out of stealth mode?
You pressed the block button. You don’t have to do it in a special mode, and you don’t even have to go be facing your opponent. You pressed block, and basically you’ve become immune to almost everything a thief can throw at you. And yet people don’t think this is enough? You want the block to take the thief out of stealth as well?
I think a more accurate comparison would be blind although it’s a debuff. Attacking takes it away and so does attacking aegis take it away. If that is too much or gamebreaking than what would the compromise be for both sides? Because having aegis/block negated by simply continuing to attack under stealth to get a specialized skill, backstab, off should have a draw back if you are kept in stealth (or want to be as you put it). Since you are on the thief side how about arguing for the defender’s and seeing it from their point of view? So you don’t want to be revealed then how about a 1 initiative cost per backstab? If you tried 3 times during stealth then it would have already regened the initiative spent so it’s a break even point.
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Since there are lot of stupidity here i’m not even gonna try to argue more that’s not even usefull
Just:
>>And what AOE would a guard have
mmmmmh Auto attacks? you know the thing that destroy a thief because they have no armor or hp!
You aren’t going to argue, which is a cop-out, because you have no argument. Once again if the guard has aegis up and you are in stealth and he is “counter-playing” by blindly swinging his sword, i’ll ask again, why would you waste your stealth going up and engaging him? Maybe you should go watch some of Yishi’s videos then?
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I play thief enough to know that the “back” is hardly anything you need to try hard for positioning unless you’re crippled or chilled since the hit area is more than just that marginal area you think it is, yet that’s not the point. The point is you’re advocating a play style without punishment for the user while I’m trying to compromise on both sides since I can actually see it that way and not through your tunnel vision goggles. And what AOE would a guard have? WW? Symbols? In that instance if he does have aegis up and uses WW/symbols why would you even waste your stealth then going at him, you’d just regen up your initiative and attack again once the animation is over or switch to ranged and kite him.
And what can we do against for example a guardien that have his aegis at the start of the fight, and then can put another 2 aegis when you go into stealth? Lose initiative? yes initiative do regenerate but the rate is not really high compared to the loss…we can’t begin a fight having waisted 2 stealth to remove all the aegis a guardian have.
What that sounds like is that you don’t want them to have counters to stealthed attacks. Isn’t the supposed counter play to dodge/block? Then it sounds like you want to just take that away from a Guardian who uses his virtue, which is a high cooldown, when he wants to counter play an incoming stealthed attack while you have no downside to it since you want to be able to spam attacks until its gone. So if breaking stealth is too much then perhaps making BS or other stealthed attacks cost more initiative should be a decent anti-spam compromise?
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Some people don’t want to play ranked games but want to enjoy the similar fun or competitive experience outside of it. Suggesting to play different game modes does not fix the OP’s, and many others, current hot join experience. This would be a good change along with whoever suggested not showing the score upon joining a game.
This is coming from the perspective of the stomper vs the stompee and visa versa. It’s already implemented into the game that channeled skills can hit someone so why not a finisher as well? It’s not like the ones who are downed are completely out of options on their own like knockdowns teleports etc. And if you look at it the other way around those trying stomping in stealth can hardly be stopped by a stompee outside of the engi explosion or getting downed themselves in like the guardian/necro aoe. Fears and such need a target to deny the stomp by the stompee which they won’t have vs. a stealthed stomper.
Now the argument for the other abilities is that of course they are utilities, most of them at least, and they are a sacrifice to use. Of course blinds and stability can be used as well via weapon skills and such. Stealth can prevent the people who used all those things, long CD or not, to prevent a stomp after it was already channeled. If someone uses Mist form/elixer S/Stances, all of it would have been wasted just from a stealth onto a down person and not just only from SR just stealth in general.
And yes stealth can be considered counter play to those means to stomp someone but the only time it shouldn’t is if someone already started a finisher channel on the downed person as it doesn’t seem fair that you can stomp from stealth but not stomp someone in it given the above mentioned situation.
X T D is just talking about fairness and it sounds like a solid suggestion to me. If someone can use stealth to stomp it sounds reasonable that someone can get stomped while stealthed as well, but of course as long as the stomp channel began before they stealthed. That shouldn’t hinder a thief or mesmer’s current downstate either.
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Yeah this hot join team stacking is just an annoyance. I myself just spectate so that at least someone gets auto’d into fairness and watch as the person who got auto’d for some reason quits like an idiot. Even though it’s “just” hot join it should be fair on some level or else it will just continue to be games full of stacked teams leading to the lopsided scores and un even team count. Meaning it isn’t fun unless people like the feeling of winning with uneven odds, although it is fun (sometimes) to play against the odds, imo.
Also some people blatantly spectate because they joined for their friend and want to be on the stacked side or just spectate because they’re scared to join the losing team.
I have a crude suggestion that Anet only allow people to join the currently losing side when its 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, or 4v4. Of course that has it’s limitations because like mentioned above people want to join for their friends and this could hamper that.
This is only for joining teams and at the very least would discourage people from stacking the winning side.
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The ladder idea sounds good. Would it be used for a stealth op or basically how would it give warning to the defending keep/castle that is was being deployed? I can see that if it was used in a large group that they could easily just use a couple of ladders and take over a vacant keep/tower way faster than ram/catas and before the defending world even knew what hit them. Would it use orange swords or a special icon to indicate it after placement?
+1 for double wahoo, which I forgot to add.
Hello frands! Vee Wee here #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!
static discharge is not op. it’s far from op. in fact it’s not even that good of a build. i am unsure why when newbies ask for power builds people flock to recommend SD. and they don’t even recommend the good variant of SD builds. they recommend rifle SD with tool kit as the only kit lol. godkitten it stop.
as for why people rage at you, i can think of 2 scenarios. people on your team rage at you because you are running an underwhelming build, or people on the other team rage at you because they are not the greatest of players and sd’s burst is fairly high so you kill them rather quickly.
I had to fix this for you, don’t forget next time.
Rofl who is this VeeWee guy and where did he come from? I seriously picture a goofy science-y announcer popping in a cloud of smoke, giving advice and overviews, and then pooofing away. He’s hilarious ahaha
While some people may seem to aim to nerf HS out of hatred I’d rather, as mentioned, promote more active play. If Anet were to change HS to be more passive it would be up to them on what would be balanced for “HS regen” in regards to heal amount and duration, maybe make it like mentioned on hit or per swing or block or something. At the same time they definitely need to rework the other heals that live in HS’ shadow.
Having to press button is not “activity”. Just because you are force to press a button on something doesn’t make you good.
I’m not sure why you made this connection of forceful activeness equating to being good. Pressing a button is activity vs. not pressing a button so… yeah. The purpose of the activity is for functions like confusion that be used as a counter play to other classes who use signet heals, namely ele and thief. Currently only poison is the counter play and of course dmg.
For example: warrior vs mesmer. Warrior must figure out mesmer’s build, constantly gauging his health health, it’s position, find the right targets, guess opponent’s energy level, determent whether to burst, or play defensively. While mesmer, just spawn clones, and stealth, and watch the warrior kill himself.
Sure the mesmer might have to press more buttons, and the warrior less. But if you are a warrior that can win over a warrior vs mesmer duel, I ’ll say you are the better player.
That’s just the process every other class goes thru as well when fighting mesmers, its not specific to warriors.
HS is fine as is. The reason it is used 99.9% of cases (and thus making it a good scape-goat for criticism) is that the other healing options for warrior are severely outdone.
Also with the nerf to Dogged March which was far more important, warriors are sustaining for a ‘right’ amount right now.
I strongly disagree. If they were to bring up other heal skills based on HS right now they may be even worse than HS. There should be adjustments to all the heal skills. Like the OP and others I’d rather have the war class be more active and many people are defending its passive nature but in truth the unbalance is in just that, it’s passive vs other signet heals.
HS would be better served if it were to be activated with its current healing by actually hitting something (and of maybe blocking as well, debatable), not granting regen that can be removed/stolen. There should be that understanding to encourage more active play/reward instead of the current passive boring tank/spank.
12.8k warlock against a thief, because anet
Good try to get a class nerfed. but you failed on several parts.
1) How many conditions did the necromancer put on you in that fight before the mesmer joined in ?
2) How many stacks of vuln /might where in that fight ?3) you yourself using a full glasscanon thief build…….
So basicly for me this looks like the following situation.
A necro and mesmer stacking vulnerabilety and might , then the necro does spite, and
the mesmers phantasms ( that where already spawned before the necro spite) hit the thief ( that could not be anymore glassy ).
What i find strange tho is that you got hit twice from iwarlock / twice from isword without you doing anything in that timespan, not even hitting a clone or anything.
Smells like a max damage test that needs 2 opponents to pull it of , and alot of time stacking vuln/might/ bloodlust. In hopes that mesmers would be nerfed even harder.
Just pointing out that you didn’t read the whole thread to know that HE is the mesmer and it just looks like you’re biased in your defense of the class making assumptions of what his aim is without knowing the full situation, which at this point wasn’t completely verified. There could be a bug or its all the new setups wreaking havoc, or scaling problems.
You’re right, there is so much more they could do and the pet responsiveness is a welcomed change but there are sure more necessary changes needed for the Ranger and it should be done first. Otherwise why have dedicated CDI if they’re only going to “fix” (as in make it the way it should have been from launch) the pet and leave it at that? Trait re-work and compression come to mind. I only point this out as these thread mergers show that some focus is being put on the thief class instead of the voted class.
On topic: If they do put focus into this class I’m all for a re-work and re-evaluation of stealth breaking/reveal instead of just applying finally on a hit for all classes.
(edited by ReesesPBC.4603)
If this is true to assume about the mergers, I really hope this comes AFTER they do something about the class voted for most needed help and changes: Ranger.
Another HS is too OP.
What I got from it wasn’t that it was OP but that it’s lazily passive. All he suggests is that something active be done to reap the benefits like all the other classes.
Whaaaat? But they give weapons along the way how does one piece justify a final track set award?
I promise you it would be detrimental for the thief. With the ferocity changes last patch burst backstabbing builds were already hit pretty hard. Adding vision to stealthier enemies within any radius would allow for too easy of counter play without having to adjust your own play style. It’s already pretty easy to kill a thief if you know what weapon set he’s using and you’re paying careful attention. A change like this to thief without property compensation will lead to the death of the thief class.
It’s just a suggestion since people are complaining about BS being a guessing game and randomly throwing down AOE’s is supposed to be the counter + being a fortune teller. It’s a suggestion so as mentioned above, with the glimmer effect, instead people could see it coming at the very last second and act on reflex so maybe even a smaller radius like 180 instead of some windup glimmer animation. Plus it wouldn’t even matter with the CnD/steal combo. Like I mentioned its just small effect like the DT’s in StarCraft which are hard to see too with everything going on. I could see how it’d be bad in zerg or group settings since there’d be a lot of people to make it more visible but at the same time I think that could possibly counter all those D/P troll builds. As I mentioned we’d really never know unless it was implemented this way.
(edited by ReesesPBC.4603)
Has anyone suggested what Blizzard did for Dark Templar’s in StarCraft? They could have that effect when in stealth but I’d say probably toned down or it’d be too easy to spot a stealthed player. Maybe even make the cloak effect more obvious if they are moving quickly like HS’ing in it or dodging.
If they do this expect buffs given to thieves that allow them easy access to defensive boons. If you can see a thief in stealth with the current balance of the class than they will be too weak to perform against a player of equal skill level. Also this would make landing a backstabbing impossible against any player other than the dumbest of the dumb.
If ANet would even implement this it would be at their discretion as to how much visibility they would give for the effect which could be too little or too much. And if anything it’d could be affected by being more visible while closer to players and less visible away from them like maybe a 300 radius around a character or whatever would make it more visible. Of course that would be subject to change if it were to detrimental on the thieve’s behalf.
Has anyone suggested what Blizzard did for Dark Templar’s in StarCraft? They could have that effect when in stealth but I’d say probably toned down or it’d be too easy to spot a stealthed player. Maybe even make the cloak effect more obvious if they are moving quickly like HS’ing in it or dodging.
What change would you suggest to make mobility balanced?
You can’t balance what a profession is capable of doing based off of what another profession is capable of (I.e. Eles get their mobility nerfed so Warriors should too) it doesn’t make much sense.
It’s not profession to profession as much as it is a skill to skill comparison. RTL is essentially the same thing as Rush distance/speed wise except CD is drastically different for one and successful hit rate for the other.
The balance necessary is that they should both hit successfully unless otherwise dodged/blocked/blinded. Both shouldn’t be affected by chill/etc in its activation time but after is fine. And both should have the same cooldown probably 30s or 25s with the same punishment effect of double CD for not hitting a target BUT should count as a hit when you make contact no matter the blind/block/etc because as it stands thats the BS ele goes thru right now. So pretty much they get double CD for their intended gap closing purpose and get punished either way in closing gaps IF they miss or creating them as they flee, that’s not balanced.
Quite a few adjusted their work schedules so that they could keep us in this fight.
is the achievement.
“Achievement”
Thats just sounds sad that people adjusted their real life schedules to “win” in a video game.The fact that you also decided to specifically play around the opposing team instead of fighting them..is this also part of your “achievement?”
AFAIK we didn’t have a massive transfer to our server like SF did. It may seem apples to oranges but transfer coordination and play time coordination sound about even to me. And to say we haven’t fought them face to face is just ignorant as we’ve had many outnumbered and equal battles and have come out on top and also visa versa. Basically you are trying to diminish our achievement when we are working with what we have, lesser numbers in prime time.
SF knows they can have a bigger blob in the day. We know we can have better coverage at night. It just sounds like they didn’t plan around that as well as we did.
Non-ele player: “Here comes an ele, with rtl, and updraft… dodge…”
Ele player: “aww man how did I miss?”Scene.
Lightning flash -> updraft -> laugh.
Seriously though. Prenerf RTL’s ground speed wasn’t any better than a warrior’s GS, or the new rocket boots, or just about any thief’s setup. Even rangers can match it with swoop and sword 2, though that would take two weapon sets.
Prenerfed RTL is the reason why D/D Ele were the king of PvP. You can do wreck things up, run away, heal up and then go back to kill some more. No amount of condis will hold them down because they have too much condi removal. Then they’ll just escape before you can pop up another snare.
Okay, you failed in your RTL, now what? You use Lightning Flash and then try again. Failed that time to? Use Mist forms. Hopefully this time, RTL will work in your favor.
Low risk with high rewards. Sound like warrior.
Uhh yeah you’re right that’s exactly how warrior is right now so… why is it that warriors don’t get the same treatment instead of small incremental adjustments (i.e. 8%)? It’s because it’ll ruin them just like it did to ele’s which is the point people are trying to make; to get things balanced so it’s fair for ele’s again in their current state.
Like you guys mentioned, you’re right the mobility alone probably wasn’t so bad before (ala bulls rush yolo wars) since it was there before too but from what i remember what people fought for was more survivability instead of being just a carry in fights. Wars used to use the hit and run tactics but now they don’t need to. Now that wars have that passive highly increased survival rate those same mobility skills from before are now icing on the cake. I’m not saying warriors don’t need mobility at all, they need it to engage, but disengaging so easily is just ridiculous when it comes to a class that excels at in your face range.
All I would suggest is that they make it like RTL in it’s pros and cons (for rush, being able to actually hit something) because as it stands its just seems like blatant prejudice to do one thing to one class and not to another with similar skills. But there is more depth to the problem then one skill and that’s what a dev team needs to revaluate.
Requiring a target could be another solution but we as a player base wouldn’t know until we actually tried it on a test server to see if that would be a legitimate route. On paper it sounds fair though because as a guardian 2nd main teleports are my only method of escape and if you have no ambient creatures around you are pretty much screwed.