I understand that warriors have to use certain weapons for mobility but to say they cannot kill with them is untrue. It’s dependent on the skill of the player as well.
My comparison was this for instance:
War: Typical GS & S/Sh/Sw/A or A/Sh A/S or Hammer.
They’ll have 2 weapon sets, most likely on a 5 sec cooldown between them, that they can use for DPS alongside mobility. All the weapon mobility skills have been previously listed but Hammer burst has a decent range on it as well, compared to the lol range a guard has on hammer2. Plus they have free slots for utilities and elites and even more mobility.
Ele: Standard d/d roamer
They’ll have at the start RTL, fire3, air5 for swiftness, LF but after that they HAVE to switch to the FGS to get away. That of course doesn’t just have a 5 second CD AND it’s an elite so if they wanted to use it to burn someone down or run away they’d have to choose between either on a muuuuch longer CD meaning they’re ability to disengage is extremely hampered by time constraints.
In this comparison an ele doesn’t “just” have to use their elite, they have to sacrifice for it, which I don’t understand is so horrible for the warrior class when it can have mobility on one set and whatever they like on another compared to ele’s 120-CD-1-weaponset-get-away elite.
Also – without these skills Warrior will be completely unable to disengage unlike most other classes that can do it if they so desire.
Prove it. I challenge you to prove you claim that “all the other profession” have weapons skills to disengage. Because I do not think you can. It has already been stated that the scope of this issue does not evolve utility skills, as they use a resource. The resource of limited utility slots.
I like how you’re turning a blind eye and spamming the " highest toughness highest life pool" to back up your claims that our mobility should be nerfed.
News flash : back before warrior was fixed we still had those and were a complete free kill in any form of PVP.
High defense and high HP mean nothing if you can be kited to death with no change to disengage.Now that we have this – you want it taken away – seems pretty fair.
Blind eye? Not sure how I did that since I quoted specifically what they stated in the warrior balancing philosophy. Your making subjective arguments based on your opinion (and pushing your skewed opinion as if it were fact), while I on the other hand am providing actual dev statements and real facts.
This is not about weapon skills to disengage. It’s about having the ability to do it.
If anything having your disengage tied into your weapon is a disadvantage since it forces you to have that weapon equipped to do it.Just like how you use a resource to have a utility skill you also use a resource to use up a weapon skill.
You do realize GS is not exactly viable in any form of PvP right? Apart form its mobility it requires very bad opponents or incredibly good use of utility skills to be able to land any significant damage .You’re deliberately trying to distort things by saying that using a utility skill is resorting to the use of a resource but doing the same with a weapon slot isn’t. It’s sad.
And if you’re not so locked into the whole " weapon skills " thing I think it’s easy to see how classes can disengage.
Also regarding the warrior design philosophy. That’s what it was. Given the changes they’ve made to warrior it’s obvious that that philosophy has changed.
Dev statements have been thrown around the forum a lot – and a lot of them no longer stand true.Remember " We don’t make grindy games " or my personal favorite " We want all players to have the best statistical loot in the game" – or something along those lines – i don’t have time to find it but we all know that quote.
That and many others.Things change – deal with it.
You ARE turning a blind eye to the fact that without these changes warrior was a SITTING DUCK in any form of PVP. Or perhaps you weren’t around playing when that was a thing.
That is a fact. Not a subjective view.
You have to realize what you said also means that elementalists sacrifice even more to have disengage abilities. Not only do they have to set an elite, FGS, but that also occupies their weapon slots just like a warrior. Add to that the CD and also add to that they’d have to add LF which is another utility slot gone if they want the extra distance. So not only is it a weapon skill for eles but also an elite and utilities. So in the end they’re sacrificing much more.
As far as the design philosophy for wars, I’m pretty sure it was recently stated by the devs and saying it has changed is also going against their current aim which so to decrease warrior regen in lieu of current issues. The dev’s have said so much in their own class descriptions and philosophies that haven’t been completely proven… yet, aka Rangers currently (ranged supremecy? lol) but it doesn’t mean that they aren’t aiming to achieve those things albeit they aren’t doing a fantastic job of it (i.e. new Ranger LB GM).
Slightly surprising results but I can say from experience that I was drawn to ranger from beta, as many new players might also be, because of the promise of ranged superiority which we now know is lol status. Those are good statistics but what I was suggesting would be further detailed into what those people are using for those classes. As far as we could know that 14% Ranger population could be 90% bearbow and like wise the 16% war population would be 90% hambow/gs&s/x but we won’t know without more info provided.
It’s a double edged sword. Most internet trolls will use the numbers to confirm inaccurate accusations and false assumptions. On the other hand what about the more informed players and forum goers? It could prove to be a useful tool to not prove but reinforce their suggestions and arguments.
I.e what most people are fearing is that the polls or statistics will show warriors/necros/thieves/decapengi/meta/etc are overplayed and lead to arguments about them proven broken from it.
But what about for classes that are suffering like ranger (outside of spirit/cond bunker) and ele? It could show which classes are in desperate need of attention.
Alongside those stats they would need much more detail to make informed decisions such as traits/gear/etc. It could also lead to positive constructive suggestions.
There will always be trolls that you’ll have to wade through but that info direct from Anet could possibly help spur something significantly positive.
I have literally NEVER had a ranger run away from my thief faster than I can catch up on my thief. Not once in 1500+hours in wvw. I’ve had few eles. I’ve had many warriors.
Actual game play and theory craft are worlds apart. Warriors have too much escape ability.
Compromise
Do to warrior mobility skills what they did to Ride the Lightning – you don’t hit a target, you get penalized with 2x the cooldowns.That is, if Rush actually hit anybody, lol.
That’s what I asked a few posts up. If it did reliably hit people like RTL I’m sure it would be a fair adjustment since it is pretty hard hitting. Anet has done just that when people complained about RTL as well, although it was really 1550 distance, which is why it’s in its current state.
(edited by ReesesPBC.4603)
So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.
A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.
An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.
A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.
.Right there. Plus GS is a defensive weapon on ranger unless you want to do the maul stacking on it which is a one trick pony. And once again the thief will have to use up his initiative to get anywhere and be left to do nothing if he were to catch up.
So let me correct myself Warrior goes 3300 in 10 seconds, happy? Also sword for Rangers is their highest damage offensive weapon.
I’d be happy when you realize that warriors currently have an advantage that needs to be equalized. Even with S/X and the evades it provides, rangers aren’t as melee capable as warriors ala dev class description and in practice, not in theory.
But they are, git gud. I played Ranger more than any other class and got Dungeon Master on it without ever using a ranged weapon.
Don’t tell me to play ranger, it was my main from launch and BWE until all the nerfs and everything mentioned in the CDI made it what it was, a subpar class. I thought this was about WvW too because Ranger is decent in PVE except they don’t contribute as much as other classes can, that’s an entirely different issue.
I did this back during launch and the dodge lock on sword is easy to ignore if you don’t use auto attack. Also Ranger has been buffed since then with actual pet life and dungeons have been made easier.
There is so much about Ranger that hasn’t been buffed or did you mean “buffed” as in surprise actual nerfs as in the screw over of the beastmastery line when they moved our 15 quickness on petswap to 25 it totally screwed over bleed builds . I hope you aren’t referring to aquaman patch or spirit builds either because that just pidgeon holed the class yet again. I agree with you that the sword evade lock can be alleviated by clicking off the auto attack option but it just serves to show what lengths a ranger user has to go through to make a prime dps weapon viable while other classes don’t have to take off their AA options.
Once again this is about warrior mobility and with those weapon sets they are still mobile and effective in being threats while being more tanky with minimal sacrifice. If GS5 was made to be just like RTL with its effectiveness in actually hitting something it would be a fair trade, would it not?
(edited by ReesesPBC.4603)
So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.
A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.
An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.
A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.
.Right there. Plus GS is a defensive weapon on ranger unless you want to do the maul stacking on it which is a one trick pony. And once again the thief will have to use up his initiative to get anywhere and be left to do nothing if he were to catch up.
So let me correct myself Warrior goes 3300 in 10 seconds, happy? Also sword for Rangers is their highest damage offensive weapon.
I’d be happy when you realize that warriors currently have an advantage that needs to be equalized. Even with S/X and the evades it provides, rangers aren’t as melee capable as warriors ala dev class description and in practice, not in theory.
But they are, git gud. I played Ranger more than any other class and got Dungeon Master on it without ever using a ranged weapon.
Don’t tell me about ranger, it was my main from launch and BWE until all the nerfs and everything mentioned in the CDI made it what it was, a subpar class. I thought this was about WvW too because Ranger is decent in PVE except they don’t contribute as much as other classes can, that’s an entirely different issue.
So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.
A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.
An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.
A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.
.Right there. Plus GS is a defensive weapon on ranger unless you want to do the maul stacking on it which is a one trick pony. And once again the thief will have to use up his initiative to get anywhere and be left to do nothing if he were to catch up.
So let me correct myself Warrior goes 3300 in 10 seconds, happy? Also sword for Rangers is their highest damage offensive weapon.
I’d be happy when you realize that warriors currently have an advantage that needs to be equalized. Even with S/X and the evades it provides (built in evades because you can’t evade unless you manually attack/stop), rangers aren’t as melee capable as warriors ala dev class description and in practice, not in theory.
So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.
A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.
An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.
A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.
.
Right there. Plus GS is a defensive weapon on ranger unless you want to do the maul stacking on it which is a one trick pony. And once again the thief will have to use up his initiative to get anywhere and be left to do nothing if he were to catch up.
So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.
A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.
An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.
A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.
So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.
Rangers have a higher skill cap to actually have to pause or get down that about-face transition for it to be useful.
Elementalists – not sure why this is even a comparison when after those 10 seconds they have way longer cooldowns to reuse it added to that is the FGS cooldown alone already super high.
Thieves – They can catch up or be as mobile but what will they do with 0 initiative other than stealth?
Wars can just easily repeat and initiate an escape whereas the other classes have sacrificed CD’s or fighting capability just to be mobile on top of the fact that they are indeed squishier.
Positioning your character is hard so lets ignore Rangers who come with blocks and evades on their weapon set while escaping too.
Do you need to escape more than once every 120 seconds on your Elementalist or something? git gud
I didn’t include utilities and Thieves have the most mobility with utilities by far.
A Warrior with those weapons wont kill anyone with a working keyboard and mouse. How is this different from Ranger also?
The need for ele’s to have an escape on demand at a lesser rate doesn’t justify that they should have a decent one every 120 seconds only.
If you did include utilities than wars can break away even more easy and add immunity along with it with the other 2 free slots. Add do that if you want stability it’s there in an elite while ele’s have to use cantrips just to survive at a normal speed.
You need to stop giving wars who use that weapon set less credibility as you make them out as incompetent players.
How dare they have amazing mobility on a 120 second cooldown, why is it fair that I lose after 60 seconds of Fiery Greatsword when a new guy suddenly appears on the opposite side of the guy I left behind 40 seconds ago even though all my weapon skills are off cooldown and I’m at full health.
No no no, Warriors lose even harder when comparing utilities with any of the 3 classes I mentioned. Also why does the Warrior have his immunities off cooldown when hes trying to escape. Did he not even try to fight?
Competent players don’t lose to sword/warhorn/greatsword Warriors.
I’m not sure what you just said. Did you intentionally run into another player while running away? That could happen to anyone. And if it did to an ele who just used that glorious 120 CD elite just to have a comparable escape than what would they do when they engage that new person and a warrior is closing in on them who probably regenerated his health already?
If warriors lose then why are threads like this even being made? They don’t lose because they can rinse and repeat because they have ease of access to do such on top of what is always being mentioned, they are more tanky in general.
Lol Warrior was left behind 40 seconds ago as I said. Only a Thief or Ranger can catch up to a Fiery Greatsword Elementalist and the Thief would be out of cooldowns while the Elementalist has everything but Fiery Greatsword. Because people are terrible at this game?
I think at this point the level of denial you have is far too great for you to understand. You just stated yourself that warriors have farther reaching mobility skills than both of those classes in your earlier post.. sooo ya contradict much?
So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.
A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.
An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.
A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.
So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.
Rangers have a higher skill cap to actually have to pause or get down that about-face transition for it to be useful.
Elementalists – not sure why this is even a comparison when after those 10 seconds they have way longer cooldowns to reuse it added to that is the FGS cooldown alone already super high.
Thieves – They can catch up or be as mobile but what will they do with 0 initiative other than stealth?
Wars can just easily repeat and initiate an escape whereas the other classes have sacrificed CD’s or fighting capability just to be mobile on top of the fact that they are indeed squishier.
Positioning your character is hard so lets ignore Rangers who come with blocks and evades on their weapon set while escaping too.
Do you need to escape more than once every 120 seconds on your Elementalist or something? git gud
I didn’t include utilities and Thieves have the most mobility with utilities by far.
A Warrior with those weapons wont kill anyone with a working keyboard and mouse. How is this different from Ranger also?
The need for ele’s to have an escape on demand at a lesser rate doesn’t justify that they should have a decent one every 120 seconds only.
If you did include utilities than wars can break away even more easy and add immunity along with it with the other 2 free slots. Add do that if you want stability it’s there in an elite while ele’s have to use cantrips just to survive at a normal speed.
You need to stop giving wars who use that weapon set less credibility as you make them out as incompetent players.
How dare they have amazing mobility on a 120 second cooldown, why is it fair that I lose after 60 seconds of Fiery Greatsword when a new guy suddenly appears on the opposite side of the guy I left behind 40 seconds ago even though all my weapon skills are off cooldown and I’m at full health.
No no no, Warriors lose even harder when comparing utilities with any of the 3 classes I mentioned. Also why does the Warrior have his immunities off cooldown when hes trying to escape. Did he not even try to fight?
Competent players don’t lose to sword/warhorn/greatsword Warriors.
I’m not sure what you just said. Did you intentionally run into another player while running away? That could happen to anyone. And if it did to an ele who just used that glorious 120 CD elite just to have a comparable escape than what would they do when they engage that new person and a warrior is closing in on them who probably regenerated his health already?
If warriors lose then why are threads like this even being made? They don’t lose because they can rinse and repeat because they have ease of access to do such on top of what is always being mentioned, they are more tanky in general.
So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.
A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.
An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.
A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.
So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.
Rangers have a higher skill cap to actually have to pause or get down that about-face transition for it to be useful.
Elementalists – not sure why this is even a comparison when after those 10 seconds they have way longer cooldowns to reuse it added to that is the FGS cooldown alone already super high.
Thieves – They can catch up or be as mobile but what will they do with 0 initiative other than stealth?
Wars can just easily repeat and initiate an escape whereas the other classes have sacrificed CD’s or fighting capability just to be mobile on top of the fact that they are indeed squishier.
Positioning your character is hard so lets ignore Rangers who come with blocks and evades on their weapon set while escaping too.
Do you need to escape more than once every 120 seconds on your Elementalist or something? git gud
I didn’t include utilities and Thieves have the most mobility with utilities by far.
A Warrior with those weapons wont kill anyone with a working keyboard and mouse. How is this different from Ranger also?
The need for ele’s to have an escape on demand at a lesser rate doesn’t justify that they should have a decent one every 120 seconds only.
If you did include utilities than wars can break away even more easy and add immunity along with it with the other 2 free slots. Add do that if you want stability it’s there in an elite while ele’s have to use cantrips just to survive at a normal speed.
You need to stop giving wars who use that weapon set less credibility as you make them out as incompetent players.
So a Ranger with sword/X and greatsword uses Swoop and swaps to sword to use Hornet Stingx3 and back to Swoop and goes 5200 in 12 seconds of cooldowns.
A Warrior also with sword/X and greatsword uses Whirlwind Attack-Rush-Savage Leapx2-Whirlwind Attack-Savage Leap-Whirlwind Attack-Rush and goes 5550 in 20 seconds of cooldowns.
An Elementalist with D/D uses Burning Speed-Ride the Lightning-Conjure Fiery Greatsword-Fiery Whirl-Fiery Rush-Fiery Whirlx2-Fiery Rush and goes 5700 in 10 seconds of cooldowns.
A Thief with a dagger uses Heartseekerx6 over 18 seconds and goes 2700 in 18 seconds of initiative when starting at 0 and doesn’t care since he was stealthed and still managed to escape with every skill on cooldown.
So how do Warriors have good mobility again? They have the 4th best and only if they use a weapon set that can’t kill on its own.
Rangers have a higher skill cap to actually have to pause or get down that about-face transition for it to be useful.
Elementalists – not sure why this is even a comparison when after those 10 seconds they have way longer cooldowns to reuse it added to that is the FGS cooldown alone already super high.
Thieves – They can catch up or be as mobile but what will they do with 0 initiative other than stealth?
Wars can just easily repeat and initiate an escape whereas the other classes have sacrificed CD’s or fighting capability just to be mobile on top of the fact that they are indeed squishier while wars on the other hand are healing up in a passive uninterruptable manner while they get away.
(edited by ReesesPBC.4603)
Warrior mobility is the only way to counter kiting. Kiting is the easiest way to kill a warrior. Play better instead of asking for free kills.
No, mobility is not the only tool warriors have against kiting. There are things like dogged march, cleansing ire, berzerker stance etc, which helps against cripple, chill and immobilze and without slows on a warrior kiting one becomes nearly impossible, especially on capture points.
But actually thats not the problem. The Problem is that those should only be gap closers not gap openers. I am fine with a warrior being up close and personal but warriors shouldnt run away. They are supposed to be the manly profession not chickens…
To add to that, Guardians are kited as well but they don’t have any where as close to war mobility/landspeed outside of their GS leap, JI, and Sword2. 2 of those 3 require a target.
I would rather they balance wars than nerf them, as in into the ground, so instead of warriors being on a pedestal they’ll be on equal grounds with other classes. More so that Anet makes the class more active and fun to play again.
It all just comes back to that imbalance of the disengage abilities per class alongside their other pros/cons. What people are complaining about is that yes warriors can disengage but they can also be just as consciously aware of their surroundings like anyone else but on top of that they have ease of disengagement with the synergies in their easy to access trait lines coupled with utilities further strengthened by weapon abilities.
So they have good traits, weapon abilities, and utilities to disengage at less of a sacrifice then other classes on top of the fact that their disengage abilities are arguable better and on shorter CD.
You comment doesn’t make any sense. You call him a noob but he’s the one asking to be informed on how to join WvW Season 2 because he IS a noob obviously or he wouldn’t have asked. Then he gets vague answers because his original question is yet to be answered till recently and then you criticize him on wanting what he was asking for when he didn’t get it from the 2nd post. It’s people like you who can’t asess (filtered) the situation who should stay out of WvW as you make poor decisions based on someones internet etiquette and not based on the problem/solution or in this case question/answer.
(edited by Moderator)
I’m pretty sure this change was suggested long before the CDI and the possibility of the other 4 GM traits being spectacular does nothing to address how Read The Wind is the exact polar opposite.
Not sure if anyone suggested this before but:
It would be a cool idea if they could rework stances to work like attunements such as:
Defensive stance
Berserker stance
Mobility stance or whatevz
and just combine some of the current effects. It would free up utilities for wars and make it a little more active to play the class. Of course it would probably be a nightmare to balance it if they even would consider this sort of change. Just a dream.
Too many people hating on him. He’s openly challenging to disprove whatever build he has. I don’t think he should reveal his build either since in WvW you can’t even talk to a random and ask them what they’re running, you just adapt or run and retrait for the fight or avoid it altogether.
I’ll duel you but I’m in GoM and I want to see if my D/p P/d dire/perplex thief would do better since its proved to be quite cheese. I think the duels should be in WvW too since there’s way more added to a build compared to pvp.
Secondly, I see the OP says that he should’ve been able to run away because he had FGS and it’s an elite… uhm, correct me if I’m wrong, but FGS isn’t designed to be an escape tool, is it? It’s a dps tool. That you can whrilwind and rush with small cooldowns is just a bonus.
That’s exactly what most people are saying for warrior GS, seems a bit hypocritical to make that statement when the war GS isn’t on any cool down to use outside of a 5/10 second weapon swap. (that it’s a dps tool, to be more clear)
People used to complain about how thieves could reset fights, so when it comes to warrior don’t expect it to be any different.
I agree that kind of light/heavy armor logic shouldn’t be used to determine mobility without taking into account all other factors, which are many. There is no denying though that with all the survivability and low immob/cond uptime on most war build used currently that mobility needs to be addressed. You can google Yishi’s more recent thief videos on youtube and see how ridiculous it was for him to catch up to a war as a thief. Its already ridiculous that a warrior is running away from a thief and at the same time doing a good job at it.
Wars have been in the light too long that they’ve got sunburn. It’s time for Rangers to get some love, that class has been indisputably needing it for the longest time.
I barely see GS/ S/Sh or hambow warriors in WvW. The majority run GS/A/Sh or GS/H or LB/GS or SS and if not switch to bow in zergs. The mobility is very easily seen but its more annoying than anything else. Most wars just run away to reset a fight and are able to catch up when they’re healed. All you can do for now is /laugh and walk away from the fight, literally walk away compared to their mobility ahha.
I think the dev’s should all list their player profiles publicly so we know who we’re dealing with and what they play and main and their interests pertaining to the different game modes. It only seems fair and if they are a balance team that is fair why would they want to hide or deny it unless they have reason too.
I thought WvW wasn’t meant to be balanced? The War was tanky, obviously or the thieves would have had an easy job, but you have to admit that with all the traits/mobility/consumables/ the war was easily able to outrun them or get to safety while dishing out decent damage. Plus that war didn’t exactly need to be mobile if the could just stun while marching slowly to the towers but he did have the sword offest to help if he did.
How about:
1. They take away the stun completely.
or
2. Make it a 2 step process.
and to compensate and at the same time address the evade time:
Make the whole channel half the time but the same damage/amount of hits. That would make the evade frames shorter, keep the damage and make it more bursty but also make it not effected by any quickness skills. This would also make less skilled spammy thieves waste their initiative if someone were to simply walk away and perhaps reward more skilled thieves by having to better time their evades for it. Also addressing how the current ini regen wouldn’t be as effective if the whole skill was more quickly executed. (This is assuming the stun is not included or if is a 2 step process the frenzy slashing part would be the half channel time)
If you take away the stun it would pretty much be just the spammable blurred frenzy, which I think would be fine. If you aren’t stunned all you really have to do is just move away from it making it a waste of initiative already if used offensively. It’d also make it so that thieves would have to use #2 or #4 more instead to help it go off indirectly making it cost more initiative.
My main is a guard but thief/ele would be my very close 2nd’s.
In PVE the evade is necessary in most cases when not specced for vigor (i.e. 10/30/0/0/30 or acro builds etc). In that case I’d say keep it as it is.
For sPVP I can see how the interrupt is annoying but also how the evade would be a necessity in terms of defense. As it stands many see that PW has both offense and defense but too much of both. I’d say to balance the set, as it is S/P, take away the interrupt since there’s already another spammable interrupt on #4 in the set. Keep the evade but either tone it down or have it apply a blind. Imo that would make sense for the skill name as it implies you’re smashing someones face in with a pistol. I’d rather like the evade to stay so at least there’s some defense left in it.
I’m in exactly the same boat. I stopped playing my warrior pre-buff, started up a few months ago, and stopped most recently because of how boring it got because it didn’t feel as challenging or engaging and yes it honestly felt too easy. It needs toning down(adjusting) but more importantly it’s so boring to play because it’s too passive, imo. Everything feels so automated on it with the current build setups (hambow/A/Sh&GS/and variants in between). PvP just felt stale when each warrior I’ve encountered or at least 8/10 had used the hambow setup. Its just boring to fight against and fight as a warrior
I don’t think they should make it pierce or change it at all. That should be something exclusively added to ranger’s only, imo of course. This is just from the basis that warriors excel at melee and adjustments to them should focus only on melee than range for the class. If anything they should hamper the warriors ranged abilities and up their melee capabilities instead.
Wow this went way overboard. Really it seems like extreme bias or just denial now. I’ve only been WvW’ing recently but I used to Tpvp when every warrior ran the usual Bullrush mode and played a carry. Now they are just mobile bunkers, from more recent Tpvp play. I’ve only been hotjoining but after doing both modes in sPvP again, after a long hiatus into PVE, you can see the obvious need for toning down. The sheer amount of hambow hero’s makes sPvP annoying. Even applying poison doesn’t help as much and is sad that it is a necessity along with boon stripping to get most hambow/lyssa/dodging warriors to go down.
There probably isn’t anyway to sway Introp to drop his bias. We can only suggest that he uses a class he’s never used before, like mesmer, and see how his success rate is in PVP. But I fear he’ll just make the usual unfounded comments that the class is easy and warriors have a harder time.
They can just make it 4v4 to start then the 5th could be a spectator, only his side of course. And if they wanted to sub that player in they could via vote or whatever just as long as it doesn’t create an unfair advantage against the 4 man team. The voted out 5th could either leave to SoloQ, without penalty, again or stay and reap the rewards for it. That way it would reward one person for staying instead of punishing a whole undermanned team.
I joined that new ranger’s guild and it’s helped keep me going. Helps to be able to talk to others who aren’t going to just continue to tell you that you should just roll up a warrior. Give the class a shot and keep your fingers crossed that they do good things to us on Monday.
Hahah sorry I just had to point how much this statement sounds like an AA(Alcoholics Anonymous) member.
Ranger was my main since launch and it was very rewarding to play before all the nerfs. The worst for me being the Zephry’s speed nerf where it went from a minor trait, adept i think, all the way to GM level. That pretty much killed my interest along with the continuing hate in dungeons. PvP wise it seems fine but for PVE you can just stick to S/WH or S/A and do just fine damage wise, although the only thing we can really bring to groups is Spotter/healing spring/Frost Spirit, which are all mediocre compared to other professions.
So the point of Anet putting out a fake patch notes to get people’s opinion would only really test whether in people’s opinion which of the item is a buff and which one is a nerf.
Plus if Anet really want people’s opinion, all they have to do is ask.
I agree and that’s exactly what I’m saying they might be trying to do here. Instead of sifting people’s input thru the 16+ pages in this forum they isolate it into one thread from whatever understanding they had of what people currently wanted. Then they refine that patch notes further via this thread, or at least hope to. They did ask for people’s opinions via this sub forum’s creation but like mentioned, they got it, and I doubt they’ll sit and read through all of them. Plus there’s always the history of leaked notes being incredibly accurate as well.
This could just be a stunt to get feedback on the possibly “real” patch notes coming.
There’s a thread opened by Anet about it.
it’s a sticky to get attention drawn to it.
People are discussing the validity of the notes and actually stating what they like/dislike and what changes they would have actually accepted or not.
Sounds like a good under-the-radar way to refine the actual notes they want to put out but to compress the final version thru discussion in one thread. As many have said this is the first time it was actually mentioned by Anet and this is in the forum where they will be looking for balance ideas.
The only real way to have controlled experiments and results would be to take people who have never played the game and have them play all the classes against all the classes and then poll them to see what they thought was easy/difficult. And then would have to factor in what kind of builds they used and etc which would take forever and would result in the warrior being easiest as it is “user friendly” and probably ele/rng among the difficult. The OP is still just trying to relay his experience with the factor of time vs skill vs success rate. From what Locuz is pointing out it seems he’s also pointing out the contrary to what people are saying; that at higher level of play warrior loses its ground while he’s able to take down a Rank 20 thief when he’s rank 500, which is a huge gap if that’s any indicator of skill, which I think it is.
taking 1 random picture of beating rank 20 not on legit in 1×1 duel but in team match proves that he killed him. nothing more than that. we have no clue on what grounds fight happened. We dont know if mentioned warrior didnt die 8 times after that.
And who takes photos of random kills – thats seems odd to me. Either he is in thread for kitten’is boost or i have not a slightest clue.
And you experiment would show which class is easiest to play, not which class is op.
I’m sure if extensive testing like that was done it would yield results as you mentioned, which is easy/difficult to play. But along with it would also show the rate of which class was more successful against the others as well meaning whatever that class would be is obviously stronger than the others. The point I was trying to make was that Locuz has some form of credibility in his claims alone from the fact that he is a rated pvp player. At the least it assumes he knows what he’s doing and the fact that a Rank 20 also should know what he’s doing or should do.
The only real way to have controlled experiments and results would be to take people who have never played the game and have them play all the classes against all the classes and then poll them to see what they thought was easy/difficult. And then would have to factor in what kind of builds they used and etc which would take forever and would result in the warrior being easiest as it is “user friendly” and probably ele/rng among the difficult. The OP is still just trying to relay his experience with the factor of time vs skill vs success rate. From what Locuz is pointing out it seems he’s also pointing out the contrary to what people are saying; that at higher level of play warrior loses its ground while he’s able to take down a Rank 20 thief when he’s rank 500, which is a huge gap if that’s any indicator of skill, which I think it is.
Having a low skill base requirement and being OP are two very, very different things.
All you are demonstrating is a combination of two things –
1. Warrior is potentially easier to pick up and play for new players (hard to deny).
2. You seem to be unclear about the difference between something OP and something easy to learn to a basic level of competency.Warrior may be OP, but your experiment and post certainly does nothing to prove that to be the case.
Chappy stated when they see tPvP teams running 2 of a profession, it’s a sign the profession is imbalanced.
Cheese Mode has been mopping up tournaments running double warrior.
QED
correct. i ran a warrior (first time player EVER) the other day in spvp. i was mopping up fools i never died more than once or sometimes twice. i play thief all day and still die alot more. i only played thief hard core (some engi some guard too) since release. warrior is way OP. cut the healing in half and the condi removal in half and make a longer cooldown for distance attacks that are gap closers when they dont hit and that willhelp balance alot.
Just because you play class for a long time doesnt mean your are good with it.
You statements sounds like this –
yesterday i played thief for the first time, was on top score always, never died, always killed people in me versus 3 fights not dropping below 80% hp.
thief is way OP. They should remove any healing spell, change stealth that taking damage reveals thief, remove half on initiative points.
That comparison doesn’t really help because the comparison he is making is that of his experience with, I’m assuming his main class, versus that of a class he has no familiarity with being far more successful. Meaning to say that he was more easily rewarded for the class he spent one day on versus the class he, assuming, spent one year on.
Oh look, another thread talking about all the problems we already know are there…. Would you mind coming up with suggestions on how to fix this and then put that in the CDI thread when it’s made Wednesday? It’d help a lot more than screaming at the choir.
Speaking of which, why haven’t they made it already? Even just a dedicated CDI Ranger thread will probably get a 1.5 year delay.
That is what’s depressing; the lack of concern to start a thread for issues over a year and a half old which has been already delayed from its original commencement on Monday.
Is this supposed to be the Ranger CDI thread? If not, why haven’t they started it so its more publicly visible for everyone who is waiting and looking for it? I thought it’s supposed to start today or is it further delayed?
I don’t agree with the obvious/telegraphed moves/predictable argument. I don’t play my warrior as much as before, which was a lot, but can’t that predictability be overcome by being erratic and unpredictable? If a current weakness of a warrior is highly telegraphed moves can’t it be used in their favor by adapting the playstyle of the build via feints/making people waste dodges/etc?
1. Ranger
2. Ele
3. RANGER
Do a ctrl+f on every page and see how much ranger is picked. I swear this vote better not be in vain and end up buffing some other class or something in spite of the overwhelming odds in favor of ranger.
(edited by ReesesPBC.4603)
Since you want to address how it has too much front-loaded damage you can maybe suggest CnD be non-crit but upon successful hit it will increase the next attacks damage by a certain % compensating in that way. Although in practice I don’t think it’ll make a big difference since the backstabs can come fairly quick anyway.
I remember a dev stating that Eles are aggroed more often any other class. It was programmed that day.
If that’s the case they are pidgeon-holing ele’s by design to spec more into survival and play more cautious than other classes.
it still seems ridiculous that the aggro in this game targets such a fragile class as the ele way too much
maybe that’s the point. put pressure on the squishies, and something might break. isn’t that a valid A.I. tactic?
The discussion was why it targets ele’s in particular. Any other class can be just as squishy or close to it stat/build wise but why is there prejudice towards the ele? (from my experience in dungeons)
I agree and I’ve learned to do most of what you advised in each of those encounters. I do however have to say that even following those guidelines that sometimes it just seems pure prejudice. For example:
Mossman: I’ve had times where he literally followed only my ele around the whole area while my team was chasing him. It was nice however since I was bait for others to use that time to res.
COE Golem: I’ve learned to stay in melee and use my elementals to take some aggro which does work but then again if/when they die and still in melee the golem has extreme prejudice for my ele.
COF Slavedriver/Effigy/Baelfire/Trashmobs before P2 Crystal: Those encounters aren’t hard but the important part is that they all still flock towards my ele. Baelfire in P2 for some reason still goes after my ele upon entering the room even when I let someone else aggro him first. The mobs in the Assassin room chase after my ele noticeably more than any other class i’ve used.
I appreciate your advice and insight but it still seems ridiculous that the aggro in this game targets such a fragile class as the ele way too much taking into account the current builds we use to be effective in dungeons, our hp/armor we have, and the skill level it takes to play the ele effectively while trying to survive.